 Am I audible? Yes, yes, of course. Change your position. It's okay. I just, I just I put off the video. I think it's okay now. You can hear me. Yes, yes, of course. Yes. We will wait a few minutes. In six o'clock, most of the people will join by then. It's all right. It's raining very, it's raining here. And I hope the power will not be disrupted. Just in case the power is disrupted, I will shift to my mobile. Yeah, you can simply join again by typing the meeting ID and the password. Yeah, I think so. I will do it. I'll join you in there. You can join again. Yeah, just in case. Usually it goes up for a few minutes and then it comes back. When rain and lightning is there, usually we have got this break. But I hope it doesn't happen today. Let's hope, let's hope so. Yadip, just let the meeting for a brief moment. He said that he will call to attend. He has come back. Should we start now? Yeah, if he's ready and then Joseph, are you there? Yeah. Okay, so you are there? And then, great, great. Okay, if everything is fine then let's start because it is already 665. Okay. Very good evening to everyone. On behalf of Bhupi and Azharika School of Mass Communication and Soja Power, we are School of Social Science. I joined my colleague, Joseph Bova, in welcoming you all to this evening's discussions. Before proceeding further, let me take this opportunity to put this topic of discussion into some perspective. We all know that Rajiv Gandhi depended as Prime Minister in January 1985 following brutal assassination of his mother, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in October 1984 by her own Sikh bodyguards. The assassins were apparently avenging the desecration of Golden Temple which was also a result of an attempt to curb extremism. The entire country, India was witnessing unrest. Conflicts were raising in Assam, Punjab, Mizoram, Nagaland, etc. Soon after assuming power, Rajiv Gandhi had a single agenda to find a solution to all the conflicts. So the first thing he did as the Prime Minister was to sign the Panjab Accord with Saint Longwal in July 1985. Then Assam Accord with Assam in August 1985. And then the Mizoram Peace Accord with MNF leader Lal Dengar on 30th June 1986. So it has been almost more than 35 years. 30th June was the anniversary of signing that accord. It has been more than 35 years since signing of that accord that not a single player has taken place or not a single conflict has taken place and peace being disturbed in Mizoram. Among all those accords that have been signed so far, the Mizoram Accord has been the most fruitful, apparently unlong-lasting accord making it somewhat the model for us to examine and emulate. So for us in academia, it makes an interesting case to try and critically evaluate the period leading to the accord, then the accord itself and the period after the accord, the 35 years. So we have with us two eminent panelists. Let me introduce Mr. L. R. Silo. He had been in Mizoram continuously from 1973 till date. And since 1973, he has been a part of government till 2011 in some capacity or other. He started his career as district information and public relations officer in 1973. And then he witnessed the period from 1973 till 1986 before the signing of accord and from 1986 till in 1992 he was actually part of the government machinery for public relations and public city. We have seen this entire process before signing of the accord, the period of the conflict and also after signing of the accord he had been a close witness to it. He had been the press information officer to all the chief ministers till 1992. He had also been the press secretary after retirement to Chief Minister Mr. Lathal Haula for two terms. So I believe that he is the man who actually can share with us the experience as a citizen of the country as a Mizoram himself as the spokesperson for the government as an official who was handling the government publicity and propaganda. So I would like to open this discussion. I just forgot to tell you that the other panel is Professor, Eastern Professor of Government T Romana College, Joseph K. Lalfakjula We will be listening to Joseph on issues related to this accord the expectations of the people from the accord and what we have realized and that's why today's topic we have titled is as 35 years of Mizoram Accord Experiences, the Expectations and the Realization. So let us now go to the first part the experiences. So I would like to listen to Mr. Silo Sir about the period of the conflict and the period that build up and finally culminated in signing of the Mizoram Accord in 1956 in his capacity as a government public relations officer to Mr. Silo Sir Thank you. This is part of this discussion. It is really a privilege for me to address such a distinguished and eminent persons and also a reputed university I joined as he said the government as a young officer young guest officer at that time as a district information officer right first from Silo where I studied I had not had the experience of insurgency at the beginning when people suffered but when I joined in 1973 still things were not very peaceful. They have been killings they have been confused and all that but already some sort of talks or a mystery had started being sent to the people so peace initiative had already begun even at that time so our main aim at that time was to at the beginning one of my first job was kind of I won't say propaganda but we tried our best to win away the young people from joining the underground and send violence so we are talking about the futility of violence futility of fighting the great country that is India in our efforts to do that we use newspaper we use radio talks and of course at that time there were no visuals or television communication at the time but we also use a lot of personal communication and what you call public address system and also we use what you call flames cinema with the projector and all that team so that we inform about the culture and the of the mainland so that was one of the efforts that was taken by the government at that time what the state government and central government but we were in between the MNF the government and the army so it was a difficult job because some of the things that we are trying to put besides we are not very pleasing to the people in the underground so sometimes our life is also the press at that time I'd like to say here a few words about the press and the media in Mizoram because sorry to interrupt you we would like to actually start you from the beginning the problem the Mizor insurgency or you say unrest the problem how actually it started and what is the genesis oh yes actually I thought you were going to confide towards a piece of thought yes Mizor trouble actually started with famine in 1959 there was a famine called Mautam which happens every 50 years when the bubble flowers and when the bubble flowers the reds increase and our crops are eaten so there was a famine and at that time you know Mizoram is a remote place and we are under the Assad government and the supplies of rice and other things and the assistance were not forthcoming so there was unrest in that one there was a movement called Mizor famine front which is a NGO and that of course my other friends will be able to tell you in details then that turned into what is called Mizor national front which became a political party and by the time in 1966 before that they were recruiting young people and in 1966 uprising began on the 1st of March all the headquarters in Mizoram district headquarters the MNF took over the government or whatever administration was there so for 2-3 days we were in the hands of the rebels so the government of India also finally took people immediately to come over by land and all the things so what they did was for the first time I think the aircraft airplanes were used for chasing the thing and which of course did not and of course the MNF and the people ran away from the city but it did not win their hearts so it became more serious and then they also of course at that time probably they had to support of the unfriendly countries like Pakistan and probably China also was still under Pakistan so that was a good place where they could keep their supplies from that's how it began then there were grouping of villages for security purposes all the villages were brought along the main road they have voted the villages they don't go they burn the villages and put them in one administration so that the rebels the underground were isolated so that is how it was and it went on but soon people realized and were fed up of violence because many of them lose their relatives and it was not possible to carry on so on the public demand or the pulses on the desire of the public the church leaders began negotiating with the government of India first of course with the rebels and it was a great that the MNF who had the mandate of the people also responded to the desire of the people by consenting to negotiate that is where the things began but it took a long time to become a reality that is where I think greatness I mean that they did not just run away from the people they responded to the call for returning to the government what was the mood like like the common people and the government in one side the MNF and the other side the government and what about the mood and the aspirations of the people the common people common people at that time you see actually the trouble began in 1966 until Brigadier Silo came into power before that one was the Missou who burst into the Congress they were not much of a problem but when Brigadier the people's commitment they were deadly against the MNF also outspokenly they started more killings and more of this thing but then the peace were also being negotiated at that time so it went on and then the people were I think fed up of violence not fed up of violence and the sufferer so they wanted to come back to peace this is what I mean personally we will come back to you we will have more questions to you directed at you we will come back to you we will ask you about the role played by the media and the ideal role media should play during a conflict we will come back to you but I think my colleague Prof. Jayadipura will have question to Dr. Joseph yeah I mean thank you very much for this brief background to the whole building of MISU crisis as we call it today so we have missed asked another panelist Joseph who teaches political science in Governmenty Romana College and he studied political science in center for political studies and he was also my colleague at OCD for quite some time and then his own area of interest actually is the autonomy self-determination and politics of the Shik Sidhu particularly so let me come to you Joseph where the silo sir has actually left he has given a very big background that it all started with a famine that occurred in 1959 which resulted in the subsequent formation of MNF in 1961 and then it's then there was a question of self-determination actually people should know that the whole question began as a response to the government of Government of Assam how Government of Assam responded to the crisis at that period of time and then the MNF started and then there was an airstrike by the Indian state in 1966 and then subsequent developments so my question will be to you is that so how do you see when you see these things in the hindsight the whole question of self-determination during that period of time and now and how do you locate your Mizzu Accord in that context how far Mizzu Accord has been successful because it has been projected as one of the most successful peace Accord in the region so how do you react to it what was the original question of self-determination what was the idea and then Accord of Settlement actually made certain provisions for protection of your social and religious practices, customary law and all these things and then when you look back now how do you locate Accord how far it has been successful and if it is successful then what are the factors of it so these are the two initial kind of things then we will take these things forward okay thank you sir thank you for the invitations to the KK Ending University so let me try to answer the question you have asked sir first thing is that from the successful side the Mizzu Accord is successful it can be from the viewpoint of the state from the Indian state there is no another section like we have in the case of the Naga because Naga is the past previous experience which the Indian state has to encounter and if you look into the Accord itself most of the Accords which have been inscribed in the Constitution of India under Article 371-G is the things which have been copied from Article 371-A itself which is the what signed between the NPC and the Government of India so but the thing is that there is some limitation in itself if we look into the Mizzu Accord because at that time there were some problems the Indian state has with the Naga especially with the questions of resources so if you compare Article 1 Article 371-G and Article 371-A you can see that apart from customary law social religious practices in the case of the Naga we can see that the legislative assembly of the Naga will have power on land and resources in the case of Mizzu Accord the resources have been copied so that is the limitations we have in the case of Mizzu Accord but in other words it is successful because on both sides especially from the side of the MNA they have relinquished all the arm struggles so relinquishing the arm struggles from the context of the state is one of the most successful we can say that in terms of signing the peace accord and after that there is no another fraction from the Mizzu who try to forth for higher degree of autonomy we can say that higher degree of self-determination so with regard to the poisons of self-determination I think this is very complicated or what is the contextual word because self-determination other what it is mostly used in terms of decisions from the state but if we look into the new definition new definitions means come up with the Indian context particularly in the Indian federal context it can also be implied with the degree of autonomy itself so I don't know whether I answer your questions or not but the thing is that it is successful because there is no another fraction I think that is simple in that way but from the expectations of the people if we carefully look into the Mizzu Accord where that the people coming into because the accord is mostly between the MNF and the Indian state otherwise and especially the former underground or MNF personal we can say that during that time so that that is the point of contestation which can be academically challenged in that way so we can go on with that thing right so just to add to date that what you have suggested is very interesting that from the Indian state side that it is a very successful kind of peace accord because there is no further fraction or no subsequent kind of episodes of violence or insurgency in Mizzu Ram so in that sense it is successful but at the same time when we talk about the aspirations and expectation of people towards self determination still there are certain questions which needs to be understood so that is a very valid point and just supplementary question to that is that what are the new kind of thought lines that are emerging what are the kinds of things that are emerging because now new generation is coming up the period of self determination towards self determination during 60s are hugely hugely different than the kind of aspirations and expectation that is coming up among new generations so do you think that there are certain things which actually give rise to newer kinds of aspirations newer kind of expectations which probably this kind of accord is unable to accommodate so are you suggesting that kind of thing or something else sir the thing is that with regard to the new generation their expectations I don't know because now after peace accord has been signed I think that's what most of the organization political parties and even the church organization they were what we call within with the disrupting so they were at the beginning jubilant but that is not the end we started from the end we have to critically analyze especially with regards to position of land yes so land is something which is very important during my research in my PhD I look into the position of land especially the forest land so if we look into the accord and if we look into article 371G there is close that provided that nothing provided that nothing in this close supply to center act in force in the union territory of mezzorium immediately after the commencement of the constitution 19 constitution 53rd amendment 1986 that means that whatever act is applied in mezzorium the formation of the state will be still applicable so forest act is firing through the act of article 371G so there is a problem between article 371G the autonomy provided by the article 371G and the forest conservation act forest conservation act was part in 1986 so there is a lot of contestation between the state the people and the history of environment and forest and climate change so I took a look into one of the largest forest in mezzorium so many people living within that forest area they have a lot of problems because there is a cohesions of land settlement land settlement agreement land certificate rights and land use rights so it's me that I can go on detail later on but that's the problem autonomy versus forest rights on one hand right right so Janada probably can go on Sailo sir my question will be to you now we have already heard Mr. Joseph talking about people's aspirations and how we actually look at an accord as successful and whether the way we are telling that this is one of the most successful accord so that is also the government view so my question here is that as a public relations professional we supposed to be spokesperson for the government we supposed to publicize and propagate and actually advance the government view as a public do you find any kind of dilemma or say conflict facing you as a professional who is conversing for peace and as a Mizo national who has his own aspirations did you find any kind of dilemma during your career I do not find fortunately mostly government of the day and the time we were in I'm quite clear about my loyalty to the country and as far as there is no conflict even when I joined when I was interviewed for a job they try to question my integrity on this matter quite a lot I said that if it means making me do what I don't believe and convince of I said I will resign but throughout my career I have not had any occasion where I've been asked to do that is not allowed by my conscience so I'm fortunate in that one but as I said Mizo people as a whole as Mrs. Joseph was saying that we may not have aspiration for another armed conflict but we are quite certain that we would like to protect our land our minerals our resources and in that I hope there will not be anything that may provoke the young people for something worse but at the same time that will not happen because we have a enlightened public and why the Mizo Accord clicks is because of that one we have a enlightened political parties church and the people and also the media media has played a very I try to just really answer to your questions but the media has been quite a dilemma sometimes during that time of insurgency before the Accord because as I said that what is objectionable to the government of India or to the army or to the civil administration what is acceptable I mean where objected by the underground so many a times they in fact I think 2-3 persons have lost their lives to journalists in the hands of the M&F and also they have been mishandled like that so they were a threat to the life of the media persons and today the media still play a very important role in many of our our venture in keeping Mizoram peaceful and Mizoram developments this is what I just like to mention in this forum that press has been received because 90% of the Mizor people are literate so the print media has a lot of chance to be useful and we have a very effective 2-bar what you call cable TV channels and very effective radio and do the so these are fully made use of by the people and the organization and the government for development and for educating people about winning away people from violence this is I would like to pay tribute to the media for their contribution and I am grateful that I was a part of that organization that group one question you mentioned briefly about charts so can you elaborate on this what kind of role the charts played in the whole process during the peace process as well as during the period of Mizu insurgency so called during the 60s that deserves a very big I mean actually it was the church people who started there are two main church press material and the baptist church one is in Aizol and one is in the south both these church leaders were the first people who went to the to London to talk to the to Pulal Dengah for the peace talk and they make efforts on this thing so the church leaders who are the people who played very important role and they were supported by the political parties, NTOs and the public and the church is a big hold in this matter and even today I think I will not be wrong in saying that even in our today's election the church players are very important they have a platform which is not sometimes controlled by the Nixon commission so they have a very important role in that way of course there are details of this process which I will not be able to talk on details of this one but they play a very important role in being a mystery between the government of Missouri and the government of India with the relevance because they have access and they have also a kind of they are also safe because they will not be treated right so before we move on let me request all the participants to put their questions as well in the chat box we will keep an eye on it and we will pick up those questions from participants and put it to the panelists as well so let me quickly go to Joseph then just one question before joining come in so you see the region of noticed has seen a lot of accords and you yourself have actually studied these different accords in the region starting with Naga and then all still and the Dima and also the other negotiations are going on so how do you see this you know politics of accord in this context and how do you see the Mizoram playing a role in it how do you see what are the different relations that we can actually take out from the Mizoram and then hold this politics of accord that is happening in the region okay sir I think I am still unable because my name is yes so yeah the politics of accord is very very contextual issue it depends on what the group or what the community demands and especially most of the accord the community or the group hardly trust the state government these days so they always want the accord to be signed under the guidance and recommendation of the central government so so in most of the cases I think the accord is signed under the Indian constitution the principle of the Indian constitution let's say because Indian government never goes beyond the constitution so even if article is 370, 71 or otherwise 244 like that so in the case of the accord the demand is mostly for a higher degree of autonomy from the existing if we look into the BGP from the state council to the territorial council and now we can see in the case of the Masao and the Carbis also so in the context of the Mizoram state or Mizo accord which we call it a piece of accord piece of accord is not official what it was mostly used by Sino is already by the media and other church leaders and political leaders so in the context of Mizoram the thing is that what I should say again and again there is consensus among the political party otherwise this is the congress government in Mizoram also make a very crucial role especially it's full of knowledge that the chief minister during that time will accept your linguistics to welcome Puladeng as the new chief minister of Mizoram state so and the other thing why it's success if we compare with the Naga is that Naga of course there are different factions different communities which have their own trams which was signed in 1960 the main group or we can say that the main organization the NNC was not a part of the contract we can say not a part of the settlement but in the case of the Mizoram Accord the MNF leaders are playing the crucial part if we like professors the mice already stated it was it has already started the process has already started rigorously from 1985 because by the time signing of the peace accord in 1985 the congress party in the center and the MNF leader they have already signed all the background of what should be in the accord so the main thing is that the MNF is the main what we said the main players so that is one of the successful because we cannot apply one thing to the another thing depends under the federal structure of the Indian constitution if one cannot achieve independence let's say cannot see that from the state the highest achievement one group can have is the state and among the state also in notice context always aspire for the special status state so I think you are especially in the financial and economic things so this is my submission thank you just to add to you I mean you have mentioned very important point that in case of Mizoram the success is actually predicated upon the fact that the government could actually engage and negotiate with the main MNF and they were taken on board but in other cases you get a breakway faction which actually disturb the whole balance and that is how there is certain issues this is one but at the same time I could actually sense another thing that in case of Mizoram you get more or less homogeneous ethnicity but in other states you get a variety of ethnicities coming together it becomes a very tricky issue in granting an autonomy to one ethnic group and without taking on board the other ethnic groups and you see the case of for instance even the Naga also they have different within Naga they have the very strong ethnic affiliations in Assam you see and you have studied that so I think that is another way of looking at the things that if you try to see how do you react to this how do you see it you are I don't have any further thing to add on that thing sir because it depends on the homogeneity of that community also exactly what you are saying right yeah there is a question very interesting question from Professor Pranjeet Bada he is director of our School of Humanities he is asking this question is directed at Sailo sir how would you react to the insurgency problems in the region being fuelled by different bordering groups like the Bruce or the Mars how would you relate it to the pitch the question is that how you will relate to these groups playing role in this conflict I think the group problem is the very new one I don't think it has got any connection and of course Joseph will correct me if I because as far as I know I don't think this the problems of Bruce is not connected with the type of insurgency we had with the MNF they were I think just I don't think it has got any connection at all but they were no doubt like any other minorities they feel neglected and they have got some very good supporters elsewhere sometimes as far as their public relations and projecting their problems are concerned they have got a lot of publicity things here sometimes which are overdone and which are not true at all there was a time I had had this problem there were reports that many temples in the blue area were burned actually at that time we invited national papers from Goaati and Calcutta to see for themselves whether this report is true or not they came and saw because the Bruce are not even Hindus there were no temples in this area so sometimes these are but no doubt they have their grievances and similarly of course the HBC movement is quite a separate movement I don't think it has got any connection with the MISORAM Accord as such and now I think it is almost nil there I do not have any problem of the crime at the moment Sir on a lighter note I believe when this Accord was signed in 1986 you were something around 37 years old 37-38 years old yeah so you have probably a vivid memory of the day the Accord was signed what was the mood like I mean what was the common mood among the people everybody came out to the streets and sing the whole night and there was a really great great rejoicing the news was announced sometime around 9 o'clock I think the all Indian radio news in Delhi so after that they came and in the next few days there were celebrations and they were coming back and all the things happened of course there were a lot of kind of negotiations before that they were going to receive them and what and all the problems also their local problem but everyone was rejoicing and then there were Thanksgiving services things like that it was a great time everybody welcome everybody was involved you are muted I think Joseph do not have an experience of that day I have a question to Joseph do you think that that kind of enthusiasm that silo sir is saying that prevailed on 86 it's still there among the people they still think still I mean enthusiasm in the same way as they were on 30th June 1986 Sir you mean still today or yeah what he is asking actually how about the today's mood regarding this whole record yes otherwise the middle people always there is history still today because it is still successful till now there is no another group who try to raise their arms against the Indian state but that does not mean that the idea of determination is we can say that because still there is a higher degree of autonomy aspired by the people under the constitution of India and I think the peace of course and which was inscribed in the constitution it will be very important in the future how the future generation will analyze and even contest the Indian state in that way regarding the custom because right now the UCT is coming up regarding the land rights and all these things yeah just to enter that just to supplement Joseph probably you recall that when we were together in Aizol and other places couple of years back then we were discussing with a lot of MISU people about the CAA NRC and all these things a lot of new things have come and then also we have seen that how from the regional parties the more national political parties are trying to take the front seat in the state politics and whatever protection was given in terms of settlement that certain cases or unless the state assembly passes those things those things will not apply so that was the kind of protection that was given regarding customary social practices and land system and all so now that the regional forces are now giving way to national and the political parties in most of the states and even if they are regional political parties but they are now more aligned or co-opted to the national political parties is there is a fear or is there a tension that is coming up in the minds of normal people that probably whatever it was granted in terms of protection now it will be gradually fading away because anything passed in the central government it will be automatically passed in the state government so there is no protection in that sense yes sir there is a prehension that after the approbation of article 370 it is not the general people but among the academics and otherwise the part in the judicial matters there is a prehension that it might affect article 370 so regarding land rights and also with the coming of the UCC uniform civil court and all this yes there is a related question to this from Bipu Kumar Rava this is again for Joseph he says that there is a trend going on in India it is oneness one country one nation one language everything so do you think this trend will affect the accord in future it will depend on how it was institutionalized and how it will be implemented because with regard to the CA also except for a some let's say Visoram it was excluded excluded so we still have the state has still the negotiating power with the central government so not only this with regard to the IL the inline regulation also instead of pulling out this inline regulation it has been provided to the Manipur also and if I am not wrong the Assam student union also they are demanding on this thing and oneness does not mean that it has to be uniform okay so there is two more questions two more questions I think the first question I should ask Mr. Silo to fill this is from Unmilan Kolita he is a political science student from Ramja school University of Delhi this first question is what about the role of Mizo assembly from 1972 to 1986 as a center of federal power especially when MNF was active as a rebel group he is asking about the role of assembly from 72 to 86 I mean you can recall from your experience about the role played by the people I mean the elected representative in the assembly while the rebels were fighting for their cause from 70 to 86 till the Accord was signed the role of assembly at that time the role of the government at that time and the assembly as such yes I think as far as the desire for peace and peace I think they were in unison whether it be that means in between that we have a government that was commerce and that was people's conference there were two parties they were questioning of being sacrificing the office and this thing I think they at that time the people's conference led by the Brigadier Silo was more outspoken against the MNF because of violence and although it was not a national party it was a regional party they were quite outspoken against the government but the Congress was more flexible in the sense of this thing so the assembly as such I don't know but that was the position that we were in at that time and the government of India during the time were not in favor of talks in fact Lele was put back to prison at that time only when the Congress party came into power talk by resume so both at the assembly level also I presume that was the position that we were in so when as we had already said that the National Congress party was more flexible towards negotiating with the underground and the initiative was taken by the Indra Gandhi and but she could not fulfill it, Carson continued the legacy and there fulfilled the peace accord that was it in fact there is a book written by Mr. R.D. Pradhan who was Home Secretary he wrote that the day Indra Gandhi was assassinated she was supposed to meet in the evening he did not better realize anyway thank you sir the question actually I think both of you should try to answer that question he is asking why MNF failed to retain power after a brief period in the democratic setup post the signing of the accord I mean MNF they came to power but they failed to retain power so I think Joseph can answer this question from one angle and Mr. Silo can answer it from the other angle so I think Joseph should take the question first okay thank you sir I think Mr. Silo will have more appropriate answer because let us see from okay let me put my humble submission on this because in the over ground politics the former party under L.A. has more experience in the democratic process of the Indian politics so that may be one of the reason that is my humble submission then L.A. who has who has recently joined the over ground politics so and politics you know it is a very controversial thing I think rightly said so because L.A. becoming chief minister even without election would be quite new to the over ground politics and it is even for those who met their lives in normal process of democratic politics finding difficult so it might have been very difficult to hold his people together and in fact I think during that period, short period of their rule there were some defections in the MNF there were A, B group so the inexperience in over ground politics was reason for not being elected again but all the same later on they have come back to power when they learned the lesson and then is it also because he was not personally well because he was suffering during the failure probably in 1988 he was suffering from certain disease and then finally he was told the disease in 1989 so was it also a factor because he was not personally well and he was not in the position to perform that well is it also cause that affected his whole functioning of the government is a personal illness I don't see any link on that thing because of the inexperience and the result of the defections silo sir you had been the press secretary to Mr. Lalthal Haula for two terms you had been the press secretary to the chief minister twice for two terms yes two terms so during that period those two terms what is your experience the chief minister Lalthal Haula taking forward this implementation of this accord his actions, his steps towards realizing this accord making this accord implemented what is your experience during that period yeah well wait I think it was during his time that this was implemented yes so firstly of course the way for the leader Lalthal Haula so that he can come in as the chief minister without election that was decided of course by the party and for which there was an agreement first before the signing of the piece of court with the government of India there was a signing of an accord kind of understanding signed between the Congress party and the M&S in which they have put the various clauses which is very significant it was termed as a secret accord and that I think it's a very important part without which the piece of court which is signed with the government of India would not have been possible it was signed between Lalthal Haula Arjun Singh and Lalthal Haula I don't think we will be able to go into the details of that accord but the things that Lalthal Haula stepped down and Pula Dayan becomes the becomes the chief minister and one of the clauses that Lalthal Haula become the deputy chief minister in the center of chief minister there will be three to twelve numbers of the ministers and all these were decided the name of the ministers would be nominated by their respective political parties this coalition government will continue until such date as the president is satisfied that normalcy return on the holding of their election and this thing was signed on 25th June 1986 before the signing of the piece accord on 30th so this is termed as confidential agreement signed by Lalthal Haula and Arjun Singh which led to the signing of the resort court and the security expert said that this is the most successful accord ever in the country and it brought an end to 20 years old insurgency with the stroke of it this is one thing which have not been publicized much but all the same this is a very important part of the and sir the second term of Lalthal Haula when he become chief minister the second time did he actually carry forward this accord I mean he implemented it in letter and spirit did he try to implement it they tried their best and rehabilitation at all but of course there are also constraint from the government of India that things are not happening but they were he tried there were many of the M&M but also rehabilitated but may not be to their satisfaction but he did try yes and then when the next government came they also tried their best but the constraint is there with the government of India but I think the seriousness in which the government of at that time when the peace was kind of signed was reflected in say after the peace of court all the chief ministers were of the northeast were brought to Iso and a week after that about six seven central ministers visited to find out the problems ago so I think the government of India was very sincere in its to implement the but when the government changes at the center differences and that constraint that also during this time because the government of the was different also I think professor we can come to the last part of our today's discussion that is the realization of the how far the record has been realized and what is the result and what is yet to be done in terms of that record so I would like you to take forward this with Joseph so the idea is very simple that in this section we will you know ask all our panelists to sum up kind of thing that in terms of the realization how do they feel and then how do they evaluate after this 35 years so each of the panelists we will put the same question that what is your realization after 35 years how do you want to see and how do you want to evaluate the record and then the final comment on it so let's begin with Joseph and then we will move to silo okay thank you sir with regard to the realizations of the court the court otherwise being implemented piecewise but the nature of implementation is a little bit fragmented because and it is very political also we can say that and depending on the ministry at the center as well as the state they have their own priorities in that thing and in one of my research project under okay we discussed to belay grouping there is no such things as how to relocate or how to resettle or how to encounter the replaced grouping with otherwise it's a very tremendous and very un local activities committed by the Indian Army in Mizoram and the other thing is that if we have to have more uniform concrete with regard to the court I think the state government otherwise has to have one division under the home department to look into the court itself how it has been realized and how it has been successful in that way because otherwise it become fragmented with regard to ILP it's very fragmented with regard to the unifications of the Mizoram inhibited area still now the government of India does not have any commitment on that thing otherwise it is there is and we know that in the today also we have a border issue with Assam and Mizoram like that and all and with regard to the rehabilitation or resettlement of the XMNF personnel that also there are different group who think that they have not been compensated till now so that is the reality the reality we have seen today but on the other hand also Sir Silo has already talked about that during the LATAM-NOLA regime or during the present regime or MNF regime we can say that they have tried or they have implemented some form of rehabilitation for the XMNF personnel and all these things and the other important thing is that still now the Indian government otherwise does not fully complicate on what they have seen in the accord or what they have signed in the accord because with the things that is doing that center also because the BJP party can otherwise look differently because this is the written time by the Congress party or the Congress government during that time so we do not know what will happen to the accord in the future but still this is strong line of defense for the MISO and the last thing is that people expectation is always high and I think in the future especially the young generation they will analyze and they will look bad and they will calculate how far the accord has been successful only for the MNF personnel who has come over ground but for the future political future of the MISO run state so that is my humble submission to that thing thank you the same question is for the SIDOSR as well how do you evaluate after 35 years the MISO accord and then what will you like to comment on it and then what are the things probably you should also like to add to it I think Joseph has put in quite a lot of comments on that one I have not much to to say but one thing I think very obvious I think first of course the first thing that came after the MISO accord was establishment of MISO run university which has been quite successful but another institution that is still bending is I think the high court which is I think also part of the the accord thing that the high court there shall be a separate high court for MISO run which had not happened as yet till today this I think it's a big one of the big thing that has been kept bending as of other details I am not in a position to comment on this but whatever can be done I think the document is trying to be close by close and there has not been much I think if I am not mistaken public voice on this thing there are of course things like compensations for the acquired land by the army and other few things are there still to be implemented the other things I am not aware of them in details so I will not be in a position to comment much on this So we are you know almost approaching the end and then we have last question in place so we can end with this question itself it is by Tauna if I may it is I am just reading the question if I may ask a more direct question the middle freedom movement under the MNF was joined by several cadres who belong to the same group in areas that presently do come under the territorial covered territory area covered under the MISO accord especially in Manipur among other states what opinion do the speakers have with regards to how the accord be extended in a institutional manner to the same people who joined believed and died from MISO movement and what are the efforts being taken at the policy level to do so I think this in a little bit of a tricky question anybody can answer Joseph can probably give it a try to the question or Sylosar can also you know come in and then we will sum up to this discussion Joseph you have muted Sylosar can answer first if you like that okay I do not have comment on this let me try it is a tricky or it is a direct question here as the participant put up it is a direct question people in MISORM hardly think about this type of questions before but it is a very important questions which one can ask especially from the tribes who belong to the ethnic groups especially from Manipur who joined the MNF during that time so if we look into the greater demand of the MNF as the MISO union movement during the time of independence they always sought for the greater MISORM means to unify the MISO inhabited area of Manipur Assam and Gipura also so somehow this group of this community left out when the accord was signed and I think that is the true feeling also among this community so although I do not have an answer to that thing the thing is that if we look into the accord honestly speaking they can be considered that they were not a part of the accord or otherwise they cannot enjoy the accord if they stay out of the new state of MISORM still it is the aspiration of both the political party most of the political party of MISORM especially the Congress and the MNF the unifications of the MISO inhabited area is the greater aspiration of the people of MISO okay so Zantada we can probably we are almost one and half hours so let us conclude and if you would like to sum up not really sum up because first of all let me thank all our panelists for giving their time and taking the trouble of facing some of the difficult questions from the participants as well so I think the MISO accord has a lot of things to tell us if I am not wrong I have read the Sanjay Hazarika in recent article where he said that the kind of the past that haunts MISO people in terms of during the 60s and till 70s it is almost a traumatic experience and so long that memory of trauma exists probably people of MISORM will not think about anything other than peace so I think that is a very important relation to learn that the past when it is very traumatic and when it is very disturbing nobody would like to go back to that kind of a past so that is one probably relation that we should learn from MISO experience and that can be extrapolated to other states of the region as well because we have a very difficult trouble and then torn past and now it is not a time to go back to that kind of a past but at the same time it is also important to realize the kind of tensions and frictions that are coming up at contemporary time particularly in terms of reasonable aspirations and national kind of the ideas that are floating around so this is one probably area where we need to think through how we can be more accommodative inclusive and all these things that MISO Accord can tell us both in terms of our past and also in terms of our future so I think with that relation probably as Joseph and Silo Sahar rightly pointed out that it is extremely contextual you cannot actually generalize that is true but at the same time we can take these things as the most important relation from the discussion that it is important to look back to the past but at the same time it is also important to look into the future and then we want a future which is more inclusive and accommodative and that can probably bring more sustained peace than anything else so I think with that kind of a matches we can probably end today's discussion and we would like to thank both Joseph and Silo Sahar for being with us today and thank you very much Thank you Thank you I think we can end now Yes Thank you