 You probably have a lot of questions. This is a pretty intense discussion and some of it is technical and if you're not involved in working with municipalities, how many have municipal experience or have been engaged with cities and projects? Okay, so that's great. Okay, so yes, here we are. Good morning, I'm Doreen Kraft. I'm the executive director of Burlington City Arts. This is Megan Tuttle, the city planner and I want to acknowledge Sarah Katz who's sitting right here, who's the assistant director and our colleague at BCA. So, here we go. Great, awesome. All right, so as Doreen said, our project that we're talking about today, our Great Streets Initiative, was actually a very technical project for us. What we were trying to do was to actually create a set of standards or really a template for how we design our streets in Burlington within our downtown, both today and the next few years, as well as in the long term over many decades. And what we were working on was ultimately creating what became about a 300 page document of standard engineering standards for how we'll build our downtown as well as the designs for about 20 blocks of our downtown that we would actually apply those standards to over the next few years. A very technical project, but we're not really going to talk about those technical details today. We're gonna talk more about the process that we use to get to having those technical documents. Because for us, that was really what the creative process was in our work. So, our project really revolved around the question of what is a Great Street? And in particular, what does our community view as a Great Street? A lot of people, other presentations that I've attended yesterday talked about the fact that they had a lot of planning work that was the foundation of the project that they were able to then leverage and really build upon. And the same is true for us in this process. You can see here, this is a graphic that represents a number of plans and studies that had been created by our community over five to 10 years prior to us actually starting the work on creating these standards, which really laid the foundation for our community's vision of what our downtown streets should be. And our major task in this process was to then try to take those aspirations, understand what they were in terms of values about how we design our streets, and then create a template that would help us ensure that that actually gets built when we get into the engineering and technical process of street design. So from all of those plans and studies, we understood that our community really valued streets that were for people, that were safe and comfortable and accessible for people regardless of how they were getting to our downtown or through our downtown and any levels of accessibility accommodations they needed. That they embodied our values as a community in terms of embracing the natural environment as well as building streets that were durable and long lasting. We talked a lot about the fact that we want our streets to be spaces where people can actually enjoy our city rather than streets that are just conduits to move people through our city. So really using our streets as places that amplify the vibrancy that we see both in the public and private spaces within our downtown. And then finally, because these are streets, we needed to ensure that we were doing this all in a way that was flexible to allow our streets to continue to be used for all of the purposes that we know that we need them to be for. Like receiving deliveries and plowing snow and moving cars. And so any of you that have been involved in a street design process knows that in order to do all of those things, actually genuinely do all of those things, we needed to get really creative about how we were going to do them. So getting creative really meant how we unlearned the process of the past, how we did it differently than how it had always been done. We had to challenge that in all of our assumptions with all of our team members. So this process was really about transforming the template, all of the applications that we were gonna use to physically engineer these streets and how we would think about managing them in the future for the next generation as well as for the current time. So our downtown streets today, this is a beautiful example, but if many of our streets are a patchwork of influences, they're the result of whoever was mayor at the time, how much money was available, what group was in charge of the project, who had the loudest voice and advocacy at that time. And really, there wasn't a cohesiveness to that thinking. So business as usual would be sort of, I mean, actually that's kind of an interesting art show, but not very cohesive in its presentation. So we had to think about what is really a great street? How do we bring together all of those team members to create a cohesive vision that allows for creativity in the individual design, the individual street, the neighborhood that it's within, but it also kept in mind constantly the larger community goals and aspirations that we were trying to achieve for the city as a whole. So the biggest challenge was to make sure that we never forgot that we had to learn how to do it differently and constantly challenge our assumptions. And try some new things. So in order to get to this place, a really critical element was leadership. And in our case, it meant that we had to bring our mayor on board. For a lot of you, that may mean something completely different. It might be a town manager, it might be a thought leader, maybe not somebody in municipal or town government, but our mayor had to come on board as a leader of this project. So not only would he create expectations of the team, but he would challenge that team as we met different barriers to sort of push beyond them. And we would know that he always had our back in pushing some of the new ideas to come forth and to be birthed. Beyond that, we had a mayor who believed in 1% for public art and we don't have a public art 1% policy. We're working on that in Burlington, but we don't have it, so it's voluntary. So having the mayor say that his expectation that all street projects would contribute 1% was very significant. And it reshaped the thinking of all the team members. So for example, he made it as important when we were thinking about that street redesign, if there was gonna be a bike lane, there was also gonna be 1% and that was not negotiable in the process. So for us, this project really led to some significant shifts in our thinking about projects across their life cycles, all the way from the engineering and design phase through the actual project completion. A lot of change, a lot of physical change is happening within downtown Burlington right now and it's not without controversy. There's a lot of public reinvestment that's taking place in our streets and infrastructure. There's a lot of private redevelopment that's happening. But our team recognized that because there was going to be so much happening within the next few years, we really needed to capitalize on this opportunity to do it right and to do it well. Because we're really talking about the next several generations that are going to experience the investments that are being made right now. For us, it was really important to make sure that we weren't using someone else's template as we were doing this. Oftentimes in street design, you get a book of standards maybe from the State Highway Department. No offense, be trans if you're here. And you have to try to make that work within your own project goals or to fit within your downtown environment. And for us, this was really about taking this opportunity to comb through all of the details and evaluate whether or not those standards that were already in place for someone else were actually going to help us achieve our goals. And where they weren't, we set our own standards. In many cases, those standards ended up exceeding whatever the basic requirements would have been if we were using someone else's template. So what that really meant for us is that we transformed our thinking about engineering to make sure that we were thinking about streets as public places. Main street was often our test that we came back to as we were having this conversation. Today, it's our widest street in our downtown and you can see how it's being significantly underutilized in terms of achieving our community's vision of what a great street is. This became our guidepost for thinking about how streets could be in the future. That we have space that we can work with if we think more creatively about how we're programming it and using it to actually make this be a place for people where they feel comfortable, where they feel like they can gather and engage in their community, where they can have street trees, where we don't have street trees in our downtown right now today, as well as enjoy public art and all of the other vibrancy that happens within our downtown. One of the challenges that we understood and another place that we had to shift our thinking about engineering was the reality that not all of our streets in our downtown are as big as Main Street, as wide as Main Street. We have to deal with the common challenge to historic New England communities, which is that we have narrow, old streets. We have historic buildings that are right up on the streets that present a lot of constraints for how we can actually achieve our goals. So we had to start thinking about our streets as multi-purpose places, as well as public spaces. And for us, what that meant was finding some of those design and engineering innovations that would allow us to use the same physical space for multiple purposes. Something like the choice of pavers that we would put in our tree belt that would allow for our trees to grow to a mature size, that would allow for stormwater infiltration, but also could become a hard-scape surface then that we could use to expand the width of a sidewalk or where we could put public seating or public art installations. Really, how we got creative about using these small spaces for many purposes. We also had to rethink our approach to public art and to good design and really bake that into the template so that it would become an integral part of this new streetscape rather than something that would be either inserted after or just another element that could be incorporated. So we had very basic standards for elements in for benches and bike racks and planters. And now we have the opportunity to create all of those amenities as pieces of art themselves. An important kind of follow-on to that is actually that we intentionally chose a pallet of materials that would be that basic kind of element that would allow for individual elements like building facades or signs or public art installations or uniquely designed benches and landscape features that would be the really authentic expression of our community's character rather than trying to use things like our light poles or benches to create that character. So for us, this process was really about key for us was about challenging our current approach to how we engineered our streets and what we chose as our standards. One of my favorite stories about this process was actually the power of our multidisciplinary team. Throughout the entire process of developing these standards, this template, our team included representation of eight different city departments all the way from our public arts department to our engineering department to our economic development department. And you can understand how we were all bringing to the table different interests of constituents that use our streets in the community. And what I think happened as a result of that is that when we look into these standards, there are very few places where we say that something has been written the way that it has been because the engineers told us we had to. We had a lot of debates, a lot of intense debates about certain things. I remember sitting down for hours talking with our city engineer about parklets and we started from a place of we can't have parklets because they're not safe and got to a place where we truly understood what his primary safety concerns were and baked those concerns into our standards and figured out how we can safely build parklets instead of having the question about whether we even could. Nice. Yeah. She's a champion. We also wanted our professional team to be the embodiment of all these goals as well and to have a shared understanding and agreement that the aspirations of this project we're gonna carry through throughout the project. So we transformed the way that we solicited both the designers and the engineers for the project. We worked with the template that we had, strengthened that and then solicited proposals for public art in the construction project itself. And five out of the six teams that bid on this project they were led by designers. That's really unusual. It's usually led by engineers. And the scope was something that we could sit down and negotiate with everyone. It wasn't a finished signed contract until we sat and really understood that there was agreement on each part. And we had to have in the public art RFP for example, we treated the entire downtown as the landscape. We didn't pick a particular area where public art was gonna be. There was certainly references to certain kinds of energy and thought movement in certain places. But there were lots of opportunities for the artists to select sites. And we gave very few design specifications. So there were lots of unknowns. And we were taking a lot of chances and risks in all of this, but everybody was on board. And that's with engineers and designers and planners, that's not always an easy kind of mix of intention. So we got proposals from people who've never worked with us before. We felt that the scale and the flexibility of these projects encouraged a lot of creativity in the proposals. And it let the artist and the designers really do their work and be inspired by our city as the canvas. So the key lesson for us here is that you have to let go of some of the details and not try to control it in the beginning. We ended up having more freedom of how to do things and more ability to work with artists in new ways as a result of bringing this process forward. It was very dynamic and very collaborative. So Great Streets was about creating a tool to ensure that the streets met our goals long after they were completed and long after we'd be gone. An important lesson of actually bringing this to life was to ensure that that multidisciplinary team stayed engaged from the initial engagement all the way through the project. Make sure that the things that we cared about never got sidelined. And so these meetings were long and there were many of them. And as someone who represents the arts I'd be sitting in these three to four hour sometimes for me yawn meetings and I'd be thinking, oh my God, I could be doing this. I could be raising money. I could be working on Festival of Fools and I'm here, but it is so... We're listening to roundabout conversations. Literally going roundabout. But if I wasn't there for those five minutes when a critical decision was being made all of that work would have been lost. You cannot let go. It is from literally beginning until you are pushing that carriage or riding your bike down the street that your intention has to be made manifest by your presence. And equally important to sticking to this because as I said, it's never done until it's done. The moment that first bid document comes back is really critical because a lot of changes start to happen and that's where the negotiations begin. So you need to stay at that table and ensure that your goals are there. Advocate for them, bring the advocates along with you. Make sure that the team is with you and behind it because there always will be a financial crisis. There is never enough money in a project. Yeah. So since we have a couple of minutes left we thought we'd share just a little bit of an update about where we are then with Building Green Streets. So as I mentioned at the beginning we were not only creating the template that we would use to design our streets from in the future, but we were also then using certain key projects that were in the works today as a template to test these, or as an opportunity to test this template, to refine it, to see how it would work, to make sure, to see how people would respond to it, to see how we would apply it in the future. So the first project that's actually being constructed using this new template is the two block section of St. Paul Street right in the heart of our downtown. There was recently a mixed use private development that happened on one of those blocks that this is really kind of building on some synergy of that reinvestment. And you can see in the right hand picture the bulldozer of the streets from just last week. There's about 50% of the way through the construction of that project. This will also be the location of the first public art project that was solicited through the new RFP process that Doreen mentioned. And one of the really great things about this project here is that the artist actually originally proposed it in a different part of our downtown. And because we had a very flexible kind of open-ended process, we were able to work with the artist to actually get that project onto this street as part of the construction. Another major private mixed use redevelopment that's happening is in the location of a former suburban shopping mall that was within downtown Burlington, if any of you have ever been there. From Boston, remember the big dick? So this project is, again, not without controversy, but it's presented the city an opportunity to reinvest in about 10 blocks worth of public streets around this project. Most significantly connecting two blocks of streets that were closed by that suburban shopping mall in the 70s, we're able to reopen these streets and reestablish them as part of our grid in a part of our downtown that's been very lifeless for a long time. And then finally, our signature project, the one that we've always kind of used as our test of a great street, Main Street. We've developed a concept plan for this street. We'll be hopefully working over the next year or so to more fully develop it into an actual engineering document and plans for the reconstruction. But I think that for us, this will be the ultimate test of our great streets if we're actually able to pull this off and implement it. So lessons learned, a lot. Lessons learned means lessons being learned. It is a process, it is not over. It's never gonna be easy. You're designing something that is extraordinary, complicated, and expensive, and you have one chance to get it right. And you're creating something that for generations is going to be meaningful to your community that is so significant and you've just got to get it right. You're gonna be an advocate throughout the entire process. I think I've said that, but it's important to really understand that because you're participating in transformational thinking with a group of people and you're all doing baby steps together and you've never participated in this dance before. So you've got to practice a lot. So you're staying engaged from that early place all the way to the end and the transformation isn't gonna happen overnight. We're constantly trying to figure out how we do this better and probably with each great street, greater street, we'll get it a little more right. And it's not unlike creating a piece of art. You're always balancing some of the competing needs and the obligations that you have for your community to give them the best that you possibly can. So thank you very much. Questions? So right at the beginning, you talked about how your current streets are sort of a mishmash of different influencers, whether a different governor and mayor of a different community. How are you gonna keep that from happening five to 10 years down the line? Yeah. So the question was about how to keep that patchwork of investment that currently is in our downtown from happening again. Ultimately that 300 page document of engineering standards that I mentioned got adopted by our city council. So that's really the foundational template that will be used in all of our street projects going forward until or unless something else gets adopted that replaces it. But it was really our intention to create that template that said here are the basic things that a streetscape must achieve in downtown Burlington. Here are kind of our preferred materials and dimensions and all of those standards. But we know that not every street will be able to achieve the preferred. So here are some alternatives. Recognizing budgets or physical constraints might sometimes impact how fully that vision could be implemented. So our idea is that our streets will ultimately be cohesive, even if they aren't exactly the same. We don't want them to be exactly the same. But that intention is that by having that standard adopted, we're then able to use it. For example, if we're doing a project that has state-level funding in it by having an adopted standard, we can use our standard instead of whatever the state standard is. It was really that having that adopted by actually multiple boards and commissions was one of the ways that we were hoping to ensure that it would be used going forward. For the pilot projects that you mentioned, was there an RFP that went out for those as well? And if so, what was that process like? Would you want to talk to us? Yeah, and Sarah, join us if you would like to answer the question. Sarah manages all of the public art projects and has been very much a part of this process. Yes, we definitely solicited artists' projects for all of the projects that are underway right now. But we sort of sent it, we did an RFQ first and then we selected actually 12 different artists to submit proposals for any one of the 10 streets that were under construction, including the one that, or under development, including the one that's under construction. What is the process, if you speak to some of the processes that have been, since then, have artists been selected? Artists have been selected. One has gone under contract, which is the one that is on St. Paul Street. And then there's three projects that are still being sort of negotiated along with the final design for the Streets Around City Place, the big construction project. And City Hall Park, too, as a part of this project. That was a separate RFQ. Yeah. Yeah, we also solicited artwork for City Hall Park, which is an adjacent project to the Great Streets Project and that one is also under contract. And this is through the city's public arts department. Yes. It's us. Well, Carlington City Arts is the art department and public art falls under our portfolio, yeah. Who's door first to start the conversation? How long did it take to become shoveled right? So, who knocked on who's door first and how long did it take to get a shovel in the ground? Let's think. So, back in 2014, maybe, we had been, so Sarah just mentioned another project that's been happening in our downtown, which is to reconstruct our City Hall Park, which is right in the middle of our downtown. That's a project that's been happening for seven or eight years. And in 2014, actually, we had gone to the Burlington voters to ask for approval to use our TIF district, our TIF capacity, to actually start to rebuild a couple of the blocks of Main Street. So that was kind of what pushed us over the edge to start thinking about actual design plans for these streets. And it was at that time that we actually had a director of our community development office that said, we need to capitalize on this opportunity to kind of create that template for what all of these streets will look like. So, we started working on these standards in 2016. They were adopted by our city council on my birthday in 2018. And then we started construction on St. Paul Street in late 2018 as well. So, it took us a couple of years to get to where we are. It'll take us several more to get all of the other projects done, too. I'm curious about how the project's being funded. If it's being funded as a municipal project, or if there's other funding partners that you work with. That's a great question. You could start. I was gonna say. So, this collection of projects actually has a pretty complex funding package that's primarily public funding. It's a combination of our capital, capital plan, some state level grant funding. We have some, there are a few payments in lieu of taxes. The one mixed use development that I showed on St. Paul Street is actually a private college's apartment building. And so, there were some payments in lieu of taxes that were paid that we were able to use for that project. And then there is some philanthropy on the project. So, we were, because City Hall Park was advanced before Main Street, we were able to do some additional fundraising for City Hall Park. And we did that with some of the businesses around the park, as well as a major philanthropist in Burlington. And I think what we hope to do is, as the projects go forward, we see partnership with some of the other developers, some of the major developers in this, but we haven't gotten to the stage where we have our final designs yet on that part of the Great Streets. And so, we're putting in from the TIF money, I think about 218,000 for public art. And we're hoping to get the private developer to match that 218. We'll see how successful we are, but that's our goal. Sorry, so, in addition to having like a mayor or someone at the highest level leadership, you know, engaged and involved, what is the pitch like to this multidisciplinary team? How do you get people, how do you get everyone at the table and how do you get people to stay there? Yeah, go ahead, do you want to talk about this? So, first of all, I think you have to get people excited about what it can be. Like literally, you have to kind of taste what is possible and start from that aspirational place, because there's nothing like being able to achieve something because you're a team that you can do it that inspires people. And so, you know, we'd sit in this room and talk about, I mean, I remember the day that someone said this is a once in a hundred year, once in a century opportunity, and the weight of that feeling and the sense of like, oh my gosh. And I think everybody felt it like literally the hair is standing up on my arms right now remembering that day and looking across the room at our friends at DPW, the engineers, et cetera, and realizing that these are people that we've had almost oppositional relationship with at time and yet this common goal, this opportunity that we could create something that was going to create so much benefit for the community. That that for me was like, I'd say one of the critical pieces of how. I think the other hook was learning together. We so often have conversations about why we can't do things. And so for me, you know, as one of the project managers of this in the early stages, it was really challenging to get everyone to stay engaged. But it was in those moments like the story I shared with the public works engineer, like just having this like pull your hair out kind of conversation about something as simple as parklets. And then to see like a month later him defending parklets when we went before our public works commission and saying why they were valuable. I was like, I'll come back for more meetings. You know, we can keep doing this. So I think that that learning process together was it definitely gave a lot of people energy to keep going. So in addition to setting it up, there's also maintaining it and wondering how that's worked into the budget and the planning and then very, very technically in terms of maintenance. And this might be a question for Sarah is I saw the painted street. What kind of paint frame are you using? I'm asking because we did this and then cars drove over it and then it decayed and everyone was like, oh well, art doesn't work. Oh yeah. And so there's the maintenance and also the literal technical weapon you use. So the bigger picture about maintenance of all of this is something that we're still learning. But one of the things that was one of our like foundational goals of building this template is that we wanted to use where we could really durable materials that wouldn't have to be replaced very often. So even though we knew that in some cases it would result in a higher upfront cost, we knew that the longterm, both the maintenance cost and the life cycle cost would be cheaper for us. So that was part of it. We do have a link to the Great Streets project in the handout that we created for you. If you have an interest, our standards literally include things like paint specifications and material specifications and actual like product numbers and all kinds of very detailed elements. But do you wanna talk about the paint for Public Art? Well that was not intended to be a permanent project. Right. And I was not actually part of the Great Streets project. Yeah, it was a different street. Yeah, that was a different street. But I did wanna address the maintenance question about Public Art because one of the things that we're working on right now is developing our 1% ordinance. I said that at our budget hearing last week and one of the city council members was like, what? So yeah, we were in the beginning phases of that and there's gonna be a little bit of a process to get it through but the plan for that 1% ordinance would be to make sure that every project that is eligible for a 1% allocation would have a percentage of that percentage dedicated to maintenance as well as administration. So we're going to sort of divide up that pie for both management and future use. Do you have a state 1% program specifically? Or are you just talking about Burlington? We're just talking about Burlington. Maybe we have 1% but not necessarily. Yeah, we're just talking about Burlington. The state does have a 1% for Public Art or I don't know what you call it, a resolution. But don't they allocate funds to Burlington? No. Only if there's a state building that's gonna be happening in Burlington and that's a state project, it's not allocated to municipal projects. It's a totally separate program. Yeah. So I'm in Vermont, I'm in Montoya. So our public works is like state standards, like whatever the trend says is what we can do. Like you can't touch a crosswalk, you can't, like the mural that we did in that parking lot was actually supposed to be in an intersection and they said, oh it has circles and people are gonna think it's a traffic circle. Wow. Being more innovative than the state standards might allow. Yeah. No, that's something to conferences like this. We brought them here. Yeah, we brought our transportation planner to CCX in Connecticut. It also helps that our current DPW director is a sustainable transportation advocate. But as Zareen mentioned, that hasn't always been the case for us and we have had a history of having some kind you know, sometimes really adversarial relationships with our public works particularly with our engineers. So I think, you know, reiterating what Doreen said is having that leadership at our mayor's office that said like, this is really important and we have to find a way to prioritize these goals. We can't let something like that be the reason why we can't do any of these things. Really pushed us to have to say, okay, then how? It was not if it was then how. So Dan, what we've done over the years is sort of use sort of education as the way to sort of open up the door to a conversation because obviously there's other cities that are doing it and mayhem has not broken out. People aren't traveling in the middle of circles and they have nowhere to go. So it's like, I think it's just showing. No, but I believe absolutely I can hear that conversation but it's like it's showing the example of what other cities and communities have done. And it's a process, but you really have to have it with the state folks because they are brutal. Sorry Richard. I have a question. You mentioned about narrow streets and this is a lot of your city and which part of it do you have narrow streets? I love the idea of parklets. How did you convince your city that that was a great idea since it's taking away parking spaces which is always a huge problem? Like for us in downtown, I can just see everybody screaming about that, what do you mean? So actually this is where our DPW department has become a really good partner in over the last few years. They are actually running a pilot program of parklets this summer and that's the whole idea is let's see how these work. How do we balance our public parking resources with other public needs for our streets? How are they managed? Are they safe? Do people use them? What do we like about them? So we did an RFP process and we selected four businesses that are going to have parklets that are probably going to be installed within the next few weeks, within the downtown this summer and we're going to learn about that process. And so that's a big part of our acknowledgement of actually creating this template is that we know that we're probably going to be making some tweaks along the way as we actually implement these things and learn how they're used, how they're received and that's something that we kind of did on purpose is that we had to identify a starting point. And one of the early conversations about parklets because it's really a question of money, right? You're taking away this resource, this revenue that is going to continue to improve our streets and so there was a lot of conversation about actually paying for those spaces like coming to a payment in lieu of being able to have those parking meters active at that time. Since then, we've really come a long way because that's not part of the conversation right now but that might have to be in a community that's really suspicious about whether this is something that's going to create public value. I just want to mention on the parking thing, is that a big issue in Burlington specifically? Is parking a big problem? Yes. Oh, God. So can't get there from here, I mean, we analyze, we know how many parkings. It seems like as big a problem as we have, for instance. But there's literally no place to park, so. I mean, so there are instances where there are actual challenges with parking, either locating it or finding available spaces during certain times. But we've also been working with our business association, our downtown business association, to actively monitor the utilization of parking. And so we've been able to demonstrate that about 30% of our parking is not used at any given time. And so for us, you know, part of this is also about how do we, wayfinding signage, communicating, how do people know where they can park? What are the pricing structures to encourage them to park in certain places? That's sort of a whole separate conversation. But yes, it's still a very, yeah. I just wanted to add to the parklet conversation. My earlier, actually, city council had a popular policy that allowed off to six parking spaces to be developed into parklets. And businesses apply to get permission to use one, two, or three. And so the parklets that you see out here in my opinion, it's a down-and-roll and we're out front and positive attire, actually built by the businesses that they apply, they have to pay the annual parking fee to have those parking spaces. So the relief is to concern from the public that we're losing the revenue. And obviously adding value to the businesses that are applying to having that out for a seat. Yeah, we're hoping to use our pilot program to develop a formal policy and program around them. So, let's go back. Yeah. I'm curious, what part of the project will create great streets in the winter? Great. That is a good question. So, for us, there was a lot of interesting conversation about winter use of streets in Burlington. And one of the big things for us was actually by creating streets that were also, by creating streets where we prioritized space for pedestrians, we were also building in capacity for things like snow storage so that in the winter, when we get these massive storms and we start plowing all the snow onto the sidewalk where then we are blocking sidewalks and making them unsafe, we were kind of like building in spaces. So that's a really functional answer or a really technical answer to your question, but it was really important from the perspective of making sure our streets were safe and accessible for everyone in the winter. So that was a big part of the conversation. But also just having places where, again, those physical spaces that could be programmed differently throughout the year, we could have ice sculptures in our tree belts. We could have some benches that might stay out all year long, different things like that so that we don't kind of just roll up our streetscape and put it away in the winter and there's nothing there. And I think you see in the public art projects a lot of interest in ones that have a interactive function and there's a lot of light things that really do work with the seasons and not that we specifically called for that, but that was the way the selection team looked to the best projects. They really had a year-round different level of meaning in them. Yeah. Last one. I might miss this a little bit later. Is there an estimated time completion? For all the great streets? Yeah. In our lives. Generation. Okay, so they're long. I mean, the other thing that we're finding out and we're just at this plate is what really the costs are gonna be in some of these. And so we know that it's gonna go a little bit slower because there was an assumption about a million or a million point to a block and now we're not really sure if those are gonna be the numbers. And so it might just take longer to actually complete those 10 blocks than we originally thought. But this is confirming the next president of the United States to talk your rhythm. Oh. I mean, well, it depends on who it is. We will be building, so this street, again, this street is expected to be open later this year, these two blocks, but certainly for these, this project, all of these blocks are on this private development project. We're waiting for it to start, honestly. And so the timeframe for when this will be built is a little bit open-ended right now. Main Street is several years out. So we're starting this wave of investment that's going to take place over probably the next five plus years. But ultimately, this is a tool that we want to use for all of our downtown streets as they're reinvested. So we would anticipate the life of the Great Streets Project being an entire generation of reinvestment. All right, thank you. Thanks. Thank you very much.