 First around the comfy seats, last session of the conference before the plenary, this is traditionally known as the graveyard slot. I would like you, however, not to act as you would in a graveyard. I would like some discussion, some debate, some questions and I would like some attention for two incredible speakers that we're lucky enough to have here. First up we have Samantha Hearn from UCL who will be talking about learning to walk the talk. Samantha comes from a number of perspectives on learning design, on learner analytics, all kinds of thread anticipating will be drawn together in this presentation. So very much looking forward to that, thank you. Yes, so I'm Samantha Hearn or Sam. So largely I sit in the information services division at UCL which is central IT. I actually work in digital education which is the e-learning function but two days a week I'm on loan to research IT services and with them I do learning design work. So we had a project bid accepted about a year ago saying that okay so we're really big into open science, open research, we have big research computing platforms but we need our research students and our PhD students to be able to use those platforms. So there is a series of programmes that get delivered face to face but we're struggling to meet the demand. So they kind of said right, so let's create some online versions of those things. And it's that kind of process I'm going to talk you through today and some of the decisions and some of the ethics and the complications that goes with that. So open was easy for us. We used Jupiter notebooks, we're strong carpentry instructors, we're fans of the Southwest Sustainability Institute. We helped build the Jupiter notebooks, we helped build Python plug-ins. You know I myself have been involved with various stuff with Mozilla, between Mozzfest and Coaching for the Global Sprint. I went through Open Leaders cohort. So Open for us was a no brainer. It's something that we do, something that we believe in in terms of our science and our research and our tool base. But actually then building open tools is kind of slightly different from there. And the first thing was like great, open, but how? Well we wanted it accessible as in people could access it. So building something within our moodle behind a login that only internal people could access didn't fit right. We're part of all these other things and these collaborations, so putting it behind an institutional login wasn't quite right. But this is effectively internal staff CPD. So putting it on as slightly more prestigious outward facing platform wasn't quite right either. So we kind of did the other. So actually the GitHub pages is hosted and it's built live online in GitHub. Which is great, it's findable and accessible. But what about the content? Well that has to be accessible too, right? Everyone needs to be able to access that. So I worked very closely with our IT inclusion officer to the point where I said we could have researchers from anywhere with any kind of needs that would need to be able to access this. So I've got a style sheet, it's a web page. So I got her to review them and to feed back on me. She herself is dyslexic, so we picked the most dyslexic friendly style sheet. I also know there's a whole load of tools in that room that she manages to help people access the material. So we got people that use the senate, the senate, especially education in the IT suite to test what we'd built. So it got run through programmes like JAWS. The videos we made sure that they were captioned. We put the transcript online as well. But for me that was a no brainer. I come from compulsory secondary education. I taught an awful lot of sets of students that contained a vast number of senate students. So I was aware of dyslexia, I was aware of visual impairments. The first school I taught in had a hearing impairment unit. I actually had people sign whilst I was teaching. So I have a very wide accessibility background and that actually formed part of my HAA fellowship application that this was something I pushed. But it's something I had to get my colleague in research IT services to understand. They stand up and they teach using Jupiter notebooks. So converting what you stand up and you talk out into something that's accessible for a lot of people online was quite a bit of work. And to get people to think through that it cannot just be black and white text. And you send someone off to man pages. That's not learning. That needs a bit more to it. But also what about inclusivity? We have an agenda at UCL that we want to make out curriculum inclusive. The students push for liberating the curriculum programme is something that we're now actively trying to push with a big institutional checklist. But all our names are British white names and all the places we references are in England. Does that reflect everyone that's going to be using this stuff? So there's a very basic step. We just start to change some names around. So we're not quite as inclusive as I'd like to be. But I hope that we're starting to push things in kind of the right direction with that. So we're trying very hard to think about the tools that we've got, how we present it and how we make it inclusive. And on top of that we've got licenses. So you've got the new license, the MIT license. These are mostly around software. They weren't quite relevant but they're in the back of our heads because we're using tools. We built everything using open source tools that have these licenses. But then we had to have the debate about what license we wanted to put on it. Now I personally, I kind of fall into the discrimination bit that David Wiley was talking about this morning. Because I don't necessarily want someone to make money out of something I've shared for the greater good for everyone else. So for me I quite like releasing things personally under a non-commercial license. But this was a debate I had to have with colleagues in research IT services because they released everything as CC by. And that's the license that we've got. But we had to decide that as a group and we had to decide what way we were going. And I'm going to talk about my side hustle, which is this Mozilla Open Leaders programme, the data playground. And I had to decide on a license for that as well. And if people signed up to help me with that project, that might have to be up for negotiation. Because we have our own sets of views on these things. As I said, I think it's for the great good. I'd rather people didn't make money. But I understand that sometimes you get further if you open it up for everyone and they can build on it and disseminate it. So it's one of those other things of the, you go, yeah, it's great, we'll share how and what limits. It's not as straightforward as we think. So what do we build? We built two, actually we built three things, but only two of them are kind of live. Actually, it's all live. We just don't tell anyone about it until we're ready to chip, as it were. So we did an introduction to research programming and this is in Python. We did an introduction to Unix Shell. So all our HBCs are Unix based systems. So unless you're comfortable with Unix, you can't use a HBC, it's all on the command line. So it's important that they understand the command line. And we built these things. We've got Pretty Blue. All of those videos, they're actually sitting on YouTube. They're kind of hidden, sort of. But they have transcripts and they have closed caption. And you can switch the language around. We weren't too worried about it. So this is actually built with a thing called the Moria framework from the University of Hawaii. So it's actually an open source framework. It uses Markdown. So I draft the pages in Markdown. I then run scripts that use Jackal and Ruby and push it to GitHub. And you can see it developing live over time in GitHub. And it's a fully open, clear practice. I tend to keep the repository closed while I do the development. But once it's ready, I hand it back over to the teams. But you can look at it any time and you can fork it. I kind of hide it until... So you can see what I'm doing, but you can't actually mess with the code base until we're done. So in terms of institutional usage, well, we've got kind of the two courses there. And we've got a... So we've got a Moodle instance at UCL. And we have a home for these in Moodle. People were asking for certificates. So if we're not seeing them face to face, we don't quite know if they've got it. So we built some summative quizzes. And if you pass the quiz, then you can get a certificate and you can kind of prove that you've met the CPD level. So we've got... People have kind of gone in. So 37 users have gone in, looked at the materials 89 times. It's not great. We've got kind of 4,000 staff at UCL, a chunk of them researchers and post-crashers. So they're not really kind of coming in. And this has had a very soft launch since November. So it's still early doors. We've had a few more looking at the research programme with Python. But again, not as much as we'd like. So we need to push a little bit more. In terms of global reach, actually, we've got people in Russia, North America looking at it. And it looks great. In Britain, we've had up to 101 people. So this is kind of findable. I did ask people in my other networks. So external, so AEDIS lists to do a bit of testing for me. The feedback table for testing was actually Google Doc that got shared with the research programme hubs. It got shared with people from the Crick Institute and other partner researchers. So we kind of did pretty much everything open and collaboratively. But let me actually look at it. This is 73.2%. That's people kind of coming once and not coming back. So they're kind of coming, but they're not sticking around and doing stuff. I don't know if that's because there's a whole load of Jupiter notebooks that go with this. And this is the introduction to research programming. And they're on Anaconda Cloud. So you can actually just go and download them. So I don't know if people are going, seeing the notebooks or somewhere else and just doing them separately. Or if they just don't like what we've done. I need to kind of find out, but I'm not sure. And the same with the... This is introduction to Unix Shell. Quite a few people in Germany for some reason. Again, quite a big spread. We've got Asia there, but a similar sort of story. A lot of people are coming in, seeing it once and disappearing again. So now we've built it. We know that for most people it should be fairly accessible. But they're not sticking around and going through stuff. So that's another challenge for us completely. At the same time, this is my side hustle. This is an idea for data literacy on the 16-24-year-olds that came out of the Learning Analytics and Knowledge Conference in Vancouver last year. So we realised that we wanted to do all this brilliant stuff with data and we wanted to support students and we knew they'd need to give informed consent, but we knew from working with students that they weren't anywhere near as informed as they needed to be. So last year the Royal Society published a report on machine learning just for the UK. Only 10% of the UK population had ever heard of the phrase machine learning and had a vague idea of what it was. That's it. So, you know, when they're signing up to Facebook and Twitter and Google, they really don't know what they're truly consenting to. So we're like, okay, but we need to fix this. So the idea is that this playground will have three zones and we'll start with curated resources around data and visa, personal data, the relationship with data and academia. So, do you open up your research data? How does that conflict with publishing and your agreements? And then the data and society element. So at MOSFest last year, I played the Open Data Institutes, Open Data Game Datopolis to get people thinking about data and society. I had about 20 people sat on the floor playing an open data board game. And they loved it. And a lot of people were saying, where do I get it? Actually, it lives in GitHub and they don't print them as such anymore. But this has a different set of issues. I had to create a set of series of documents to make them accessible to people to want to join the project. There's only a couple of us at the moment that are trying to push this as a great idea. And I've got this lined up for the Missilla Global Sprint that happens in May. And also coached a couple of other different projects. And we're hoping to take it to MOSFest to help us build this. But this is open. It will be OBR. Again, it's open source hosting GitHub. But my problem here is different. I don't have the collaborators yet, whereas kind of I did before. So there are OBRs, but the problems are quite different. So I kind of wanted to summarise and go, when it comes to open and education, and just education in general, everyone starts at a different place. So because I was a teacher, because I studied IT and education, anyway, I have this vocabulary around pedagogy and teaching. I have an understanding of how technology fits with education because I studied technology and I taught technology. That's what I do as a technologist. But not everyone sees that or they see the braid between what they're doing and how the technology can help them. And we need to be much more inclusive and not just accessible. So we need to be inclusive about the examples that we use, the language that we use, the people that come and test things and build it with us, because they need to be present there as well. And we need to think about accessible as not just in the what can anyone access it from any device anywhere, as in we need to think about various needs for different users. Choosing a licence is hard. You will come into conflict. IP is always a bit tricky. And with any kind of learning, it always takes a lot longer than you think to build it and decide to get these things rolled out. So, at that point, I'm going to stop and say if you've got any questions for me, I'll be glad to answer them. Or if you've come up with anything else that's kind of equally as tricky and that would be great. OK, first of all, thank you very much, Sam. That was a great presentation. I have had a question coming through Twitter, which I could do. But I'd like to go to the room first, if I may. Are there any questions or comments? If you could raise your hand in the usual. I'd really like the lessons learned, thank you. And especially that choosing a licence among creative comments is hard. Some of your content, did I get this right? Some of your content is on YouTube. Right, so the videos I put in YouTube because they're a lot easier to caption, all the content lives live in GitHub. So they're hosted through GitHub. So we've got readings, which are expanded versions of the content in Jupyter Notebooks, because they are practical coding exercises. But you can download the notebooks themselves from Anaconda Cloud. So everything's built with free tools. Right, but you're using some commercial platforms for some aspects of dissemination. Right, so the only reason why they're in YouTube is because our own tool for hosting videos is not very good at captioning. It's actually a lot easier to do it in YouTube. So getting a benefit from a commercial service and you're thereby making that commercial service more valuable and giving more reasons for people to go to that. So it's not you're against people making money from it, it's so long as they're doing something useful. Adding value. So actually the non-commercial putting and non-commercial clause actually doesn't capture your intentions for the content. No, so if a tool is useful to me, I will use it. YouTube to me in this instance is exceptionally useful. It allows me to auto-caption and people could then choose the language that they like. What works for them and that's great. But it's that's slightly different in that so all this work is CC by. When it comes to my own work if I put a lot of time and effort into it and I want to share it for the greater good I then have a conflict of then am I happy for someone to take that and make money from it if I'm not necessarily recognised in any way for it? I've faced it, I don't know I've faced exactly the same decision and the same choice and another solution, I don't know what the right solution is is to release it CC by SA or CC by because if someone's business model is to sell something which they can get easily for free that's not a very good business model so that's a way to discourage that commercial notation. There's another question behind Matthew Hi there Thanks so much for your comments I'm really interested when you described how you had this heightened awareness of accessibility because of your background as a secondary school teacher I was wondering if someone who's worked on both the school side and the HE side what differences you've seen between the use of OERs I said this earlier in a discussion actually so on the secondary level sometimes you share by default you'll be asked to write a scheme of work and produce the resources that you're going to share with your department anyway because you're all teaching year 9 the same thing at the same time you're not going to write the same scheme of work six times one of you writes it and you share it and if it's any good you share it with your colleagues in another school and then if it's really good you might think about uploading it to TES but usually that's a little bit too scary so you don't because but it's kind of a difference because you are teaching the same things because you've got a national curriculum it's easier to share I think and there's more of a culture of borrowing and sharing I think because I think the research agenda skews what academics do so there's more of a it's my IP whereas kind of compulsory we don't kind of care quite so much I don't think to the same extent really and having worked in consortia teaching especially to players we would share across the consortia so we weren't worried really in the same way thank you very much that's a really interesting answer and I have a question too thank you have we any other questions or any other comments people would like to make I'm not seeing any I've decided not to do the question on twitter because I think it's a pretty straightforward answer the question was just I mean why are you using github but obviously forkability and the fact that the people that are actually making the materials are there anyway okay so thank you very much once again Sam for a fantastic presentation and some great answers so next up we are pleased to welcome Rupert Gatti who will be talking published in practice open access textbooks it's a nice link there because UCL have also been very active in publishing open textbooks in the UK and we now move across to the team at Cambridge so thank you very much well thank you very much yeah so just to put some perspective I'm a economist at Cambridge and with a bunch of other academics at Cambridge we had enough of being frustrated with the existing publishing model and thought we needed to do something so what we decided to do was to set up an open access publishing company publishing monographs and we'll have a little bit more detail in a second so it's with that hat that I'm here looking at open book publishers just a little tiny bit of background and you know it's open access it's online so I really do encourage any of you who want to troll while I'm talking you know go online have a look at the website and I'd really like you know if you've got any thoughts or feedback and things like that it's always very gratefully received but I took a screenshot rather than trying to do this live I'd seen a couple of presenters previously fighting between the two and you know what I'll just do everything with a screenshot so anyway it's all screenshots so that's the sort of homepage a couple of things to point out from it so at the bottom there we've got so far we've published about 118 titles we've been going about 10 years now we've got about one in three quarter million book visits for those titles in that time and it's a global audience that's coming through so it really you know Google Analytics is that there's 217 countries you know I don't think there's only about 180 in the world so I don't know quite how Google Analytics does it but anyway there's quite a few that have come through and you look at those analytics maps alas North Korea is still white so we don't seem to have got anyone from North Korea but otherwise it's pretty green um so all the books are open access now what does open access mean mostly it means CCBY so most of our books are CCBY not all of them can discuss about there's some that are NCND and we can talk about these various licences if anybody is interested and just as part of the just to point out we don't charge authors a publishing cost so there's no compulsory charge there we do ask for them to apply for grants if there's they're aware that and is there but there's no compulsory payment so it's not part of the decision process just quickly where we're a non-profit community interest company that we set up just to make sure what we were concerned about was that the good quality you know it's a standard thing I'm pushing in this open door here but good quality good quality research particularly in humanities and social sciences wasn't being made publicly available because it was behind the table so that's what we were trying to address so presently we're publishing about 24 titles a year we primarily primarily publish peer reviewed research and you'll see one that I hope will all interest you and immediately go in and have a look in fact many of you might have been contributors to this so there's a few nodding heads around the audience so thank you very much but it's those sorts of works that we're looking to publish really good quality highest quality research monographs we have a very rigorous peer review process and it's very very it's the only traditional part of our model we really really want to be publishing work whose alternative outlets would be the very top university presses that's the level that we're looking for okay but amongst those 118 titles there are 10 open access textbooks and five works that were created as part of a student and course work process and it's those that area that I want to look at now and think about some of the issues around the textbooks and then the course content that we've published okay so the textbooks we've got 10 oatex books, three of them are based, are targeted at university level two of them at the bottom there in classics which are published in conjunction with Dickinson College in the US and there's a big website that backs though with those publications one of them is in economics and we've published seven titles now which are targeted specifically at the UK A level students, specific courses and structures within the UK A level and again this is primarily where I want to be thinking for the talk now at the top we've got one on ethics which is targeted specifically at the philosophy and religious studies courses in A level we've got one on mathematics which is targeted at the step examination here which is the mathematics exam that sits above A level for people going through to study mathematics and we've got five in classics all targeted and you probably can't read but this is like Tacitus particular segments from these works and those segments correspond to the assigned texts from the ancient civilization course for A level so these are really really specifically targeted at A level courses and this is would be the sort of the homepage for these and I'll just quickly briefly show you what happens there we've got free editions we've got a PDF reader, online PDF reader there's HTML there's PDF which is free to download we also have some e-pubs and mobies which we're charging for and we've got paper and hardback editions which again we charge for and we can talk about why we do that et cetera later if anybody's interested but the free editions of our textbooks are like that on the more recent books we've also got XML which can be downloaded for free as well we have a facility called OBB customized which allows anybody to come in and customize the title that can be mixed and matched across ourselves or other content can be brought in and we can republish that as whoever wants so that facility is there I've got on all the titles there's a viewing statistic and so here in this case it's saying viewed just over 43,000 times and there's a little details button there that if anybody's interested can go through and it gives a much more detailed breakdown of where the book has been visited so by a book visit I mean somebody's gone to the PDF reader downloaded the PDF gone to the HTML we'll talk about that a little bit more in a second and then finally for these classics books and this is one of these reuse components where open access is not just about free to read but it's free to reuse and so here is the situation where there is in the classics community there's a group a website called the classics library which is a huge wonderful resource where teachers are sharing their content and Stephen Jenkins who runs that said could he upload these books through a WordPress site onto the classics library so here is the version of that uploaded onto there and of course along with that comes commentary functions and the ability for teachers to come in and supplement or complement the work in some cases adding videos that complemented it and other cases comments and clarifications and things like that so here's a real reuse example where the books being picked up and it's been put up onto another website and engaged with the broader teacher community so I want to think a little bit and we'll come back to that because this for us and what we're recognizing is that that level of engagement is hugely important for the uptake and the use of the work it needs to be coming into a community it's no good just us putting up stuff and saying look at CCBY one's got to connect it as well and so that's something which one of the reasons really an excitement of being here is to think about how this high quality content what could or should we be doing not just with textbooks more generally to increase the engagement and the reuse of the work because that is a really important power of what CCBY provides so here's usage stats for the 7 textbooks so these again all A level textbooks and you can see that the online readership is in the 40s of thousands now student enrollment for these courses is quite small in the one and a half thousand so there's a lot of engagement going on here and and if we break that down a little bit we've aggregated to talk about usage statistics we've aggregated statistics from a number of different platforms that we're aware of which are hosting this work so you can see actually the classics library is a huge source of traffic for this work so it's really really been important that upload by them third party upload reuse of it has been hugely important for the engagement of this work with the community we've got our own OVP PDF reader, HTML reader, PDF downloads Google Books is sitting there again another important source of traffic across all our areas the discovery and use of those works on Google Books has been important Open Edition is a primarily French platform and I've got World Reader, it's a little tiny percentage in this particular case but World Reader is a wonderful service providing 2G technology for reading books through Africa so that they can be read on mobile telephones, now you try and read a textbook on a 2G it's a pretty miserable reading experience the fact that people are engaging in doing it shows how much need there is because if there was any other option they wouldn't be choosing to read it on 2G by country you can see the classics books primarily the United Kingdom we've got to look at the time United Kingdom dominates as you'd expect these are targeted for the UK audience but you know the US is quite large there we've got another quite a lot of the rest of the world which is engaged with these works one way or another presumably not because they're sitting A level exams in June and the United States and we'll come back to this in a second to some things like the open textbook initiative I think have been important in bringing their work and making it available in some of these other audiences as well I just want to compare that with the ethics textbook so the ethics textbook is again very very targeted at the syllabus at A level and actually the stats are really dramatically different here in fact it's the United States that has picked up on that so what I should say is that these books because they're very high level books for a school level they're actually also being adopted at the first year university level in the US and so what we're seeing here is that actually that ethics book and again I suspect it's because of things like the open textbook initiative that those are being made aware and teachers are engaging with them and recognising those works and getting to adopt them that's a higher proportion than the United Kingdom in the United Kingdom I think on reflection we probably haven't connected to that teacher community as well as we did with the classics works and that's something that we now need to go away and really think about and any advice would be warmly welcomed how do we engage with that same community for the ethics as we were doing with the classics because it's looking like we're not quite making that hit here as we could have been doing okay if we add to these stats sales data when begins to get some process towards the business model here so you can see that on the whole sales have been around the thousand mark 1000, 2000 now that's we're very happy and comfortable with that so it costs us about three and a half thousand four thousand pounds of a book and then with some overheads on top of that we would need to be covering about five and a half thousand five thousand pounds something like that to cover our average costs so if we're making if our markup is at around six pounds of books something like that we're going to need to make sales of about 800 to a thousand to really start breaking even and we're doing that with these textbooks so that's something that I just want to put down here that can sustain the production of this content through the sale of the printed works if we look, I've got down the side if we've got the conversion rates down there you know, you guys are used to digital marketplaces it's not uncommon to have conversion rates at about one and a half, two percent when one's got free content and one's trying to sell premium content on there if you look at our model in the same way then we've got the free versions and we're trying to sell the paper versions to cover our costs these conversion rates are high in that sort of online world if you put it in that online area so people do want printed versions of free open access textbooks and there is a business model there to be able to sustain that that's able to sustain it in classics now classics doesn't have the bigger student base you know, in some of the subjects that have a much bigger student base there's clearly more potential there okay, so just quickly summarising that bit as far as OA textbooks are concerned we're getting a lot of readers there's a lot of engagement with the work at the readership level relatively high conversion rates it looks like there's a sustainable business model there we well engagement with teachers and third parties and platforms I think is really really important and something that we are really looking to work on and think about how to develop because that's really how the work starts getting a life of its own is through that sort of engagement any advice any thoughts about how we could be doing that better would be really welcome to date we've had very little use of the OBB customised and what use we've had has not really been structural changes it's been more cosmetic changes and so thinking about how people would engage with the content to redevelop it to take it to own it to use it for their own purposes that's something that we haven't yet seen and thinking about how to push that through clearly things like the open textbook libraries google books these big platforms of discovery are clearly very very important some of the difficulties are concerned the open access the textbook market in the UK is sewn up by a very cosy relationship between the examination boards and the publishing partners and so some of the difficulties that we face is that the examination boards give accreditation status to specific um specific providers presumably there is some money transfer that goes one way or another and in some cases teachers don't feel obliged to take the accredited one because they feel that that's the one that will prepare the students the most so there is a very very cosy relationship that's developed and I think I would really encourage as a movement we don't have that K12 movement in the same way here as we've seen in the US and thinking about how to break that relationship and free that relationship up I think is really really important so for example the timing of the course content the actual many of those classics books were targeted at specific texts those texts were known by the examination board I think about 18 months beforehand um and uh but they're not released to the teachers or to anybody except the um the private partner that they've made until about nine months before so to get those books together you once got to scamper fast which is not a good way of doing things so an easy win would be just to say that announcement another year earlier and give the teacher community and the academic community time to develop the resources for it and finally just I've been given a three minute warning and these are going to be long minutes I'll talk very fast and it'll extend commissioning content we've got a business model that covers costs we do offer authors royalties not all of them take it but we do offer royalties to authors uh and the royalties are in the low thousands now that's not enough to buy you out a job to go and write a book so if it was going to do commissioning one's got to think more carefully or one's got to think if one's going to have a systematic provision of open access resources we've got to have another way of coordinating teachers to make sure that we are always providing the content as required so some sort of coordination device is required to be attracting and assigning works but there's lots of authors out there who want to do this not for money but because they believe in education and so harnessing those would be valuable I've got two and a half minutes left one minute I'm told I just want to talk quickly about the other part of it which is we've got three works that were created as part of the of the teaching environment so the first of these was a translation of Dennis Diedro's Ramus Nephew it's a beautiful translation by two Oxford academics Kate Tunstall and Caroline Warman the editor wanted to have a lot of biographical and musical footnotes because there's a lot of references that present readers might know and so they worked with Pascal Duc at the Conservatoire in Paris and recorded as part of the of the program for the musicians and the recorders and the directors and as part of the student program was to create 14 tracks for that which we've then embedded in the book and I do have the book but embedding music into paper is difficult but we've just got little QR codes so that you can play it on your telephone but of course all the digital ones are embedded in there and all that music has been created so it can be uploaded hadn't been recorded before most of this so that's one example then Caroline Warman you'll see there went on and worked with the anthology of works from the Enlightenment about tolerance now this was a direct response to the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris and the French 18th century French literary society brought out a pamphlet of Enlightenment writings about tolerance Caroline Warman saw that and said we should translate it she took it back and made it and assigned it as the translation course for the second year French students in Oxford so 100 students plus their tutors then spent the first term translating this work which was brought out then for the first year anniversary in the January 2016 it was then released then so this was hugely, this was a huge engagement all the students really engaging in this and I think it was a very productive educational experience for all involved and of course it got picked up by the newspapers, the Guardian and the BBC and things like that all started reporting about how Oxford students were responding to the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a very positive experience I think for all involved so much so that it inspired one of her colleagues to do a similar thing about the idea of Europe for the Enlightenment all again in this case targeted it came out in three different languages in English, German and French and the releases were targeted for the national elections in France and in Germany and there was a Brexit vote here remember and so this was brought out in time for those to try and bring through and reinforce what the underlying concept of Europe was in a way was a coordinated effort across a bunch of universities and students across Europe to try and reinforce the very processes that they were doing again an extremely powerful learning process for for all those involved okay minus one minute so I'm talking backwards but some quick lessons here you know students do wonderful things if you give them good tasks and good direction the second is that it's catching once you've done it you want to do it again because it works so well all of those projects worked really well because the primary academic behind it was deeply engaged with it and their credibility was going to be lying on the final work and I think that was really important it really engaged the students because there was deep involvement by the academics involved and of course in this day and age if you're going to get academics to put that much effort into it you've got to reward them and so there needs to be some recognition system for that type of process in the promotion structure Caroline Warman was awarded the teaching excellence teaching engagement awarded Oxford because of the work that she'd done on the tolerance volume okay so that's it there's some contact details for both open book and for me and a quick plug the person who creates all our digital content is going back to Italy and we're looking for another one so anybody who knows anybody who wants to work doing that sort of thing please tell them to get in touch such a fantastic presentation thank you very much for sharing all that with us lots to take away about open textbooks and business models again I'm inspired that there are people out there that are making, creating and sharing open content their actual job and paying the bills with it I think this is incredibly encouraging so despite you almost self censoring yourself as regards timing we've got plenty of time for questions so do please if there's anybody in the audience who has got a question that they would like to ask please raise your hand right at the back there I'm afraid I can't see who that is I'm sorry if you could start with letting us know your name and where you're from it's Anacoma Sqwyn I'm from the Open University hello I'm interested in the translation initiatives that you have presented at the end and what was the cost of getting those books published through your company for the teachers or for the institutions and how was that funded so as far as the direct publishing costs was about the same as the others in fact we ended up doing quite a lot more work because we put links through to the original content so the translations were there but then within OVP we then linked it back to the original content so you can travel from there so there was a little bit more work in there so it was probably a little bit more expensive than what I was saying it's in the order of about 4,000 pounds it cost us to be able to produce those works as far as what the again what we've got is a model that says if you have grants then please apply for them I think that we got a grant but I can't remember if it was a full grant or not I probably should know from the 18th century French Literature Society that put some money in so there were contributions that came through but I would have to check whether they were full contributions or not but it's that sort of order we just asked for people to apply for whatever they can and you know, we take whatever we can but if it's 100 pounds we say thank you very much if it's 1,000 pounds we still say thank you very much if it covers the whole cost we still say thank you very much but it's not a require it's not part of it we're not saying we will only do this if you come up with some money I mean I guess I could just say there's three strands to our business model that comes about a third of our net income we get about a third of our net income from the sales of printed works and we have a library membership scheme that academic libraries join up to it's about 300 pounds a year there's some benefits that go with that but that supports also what we do and that's about a third of our income stream as well Have we got any further questions from the floor? It looks like people are realising that the bar is in fact open I however have a final question have you come across the work of Martin Eve at Open Lib Hums and do you work with those guys? Yes, yes we do At present the Open Library of the Humanities is not doing books they have a originally when they set up I'm not sure if the plan has changed it was to involve four publishers in book publishing of which one of them was us and in fact we've published a book by Martin Eve so one of our works is by him so it's fantastic exactly the community that we need to be building and working with A lot of really encouraging work in open access and open publishing especially in the humanities and social science where the research culture is around the monograph I'm just rambling and asking me my own questions I could very easily do this in a different room and let you guys go so I'd like once again to thank Sam and to thank yourself for two excellent and inspiring talks to close the conference on so thank you very much for that can be an usual way We've now got a short