 Welcome to the Original Gangsters Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Bernstein. I'm very, very, very excited to bring out one of my original partners in crime, the original partner in crime for the Scott Bernstein True Crime brand. Mr. Al Prophet, who's joining us from California. Day science. And we're going to discuss the Kennedy family and the mafia. We are at the 60 year anniversary of the JFK assassination. Oh, that's why it's so hot. Okay. Yeah. Al didn't understand why I wanted to touch on this subject right now. You know, for me, everyone kind of assumes that, you know, the mob and the mafia is something that I've been interested in my whole life and it really isn't. But in terms of the first piece of what I guess you would call true crime that really fascinated me was the JFK assassination. I remember as a young boy watching the Martin Sheen TV movie with Martin Sheen playing JFK. I was this prayer post Bar Mitzvah. This was pre Bar Mitzvah. This was like, wow. I'm saying this is when I was in elementary school. You were a boy, not yet a man. Right. Seven, eight, nine years old. I remember going to the library. And but it was after your breasts. Yes. Go in and reading as much as I could. So it's it's a subject that I've always been interested in. Let's just jump in. Al, did the mafia murder JFK? It's a complicated question. So we, Scott and I did killing Jimmy Hoffa. I mean, I kind of did it. Scott was heavy, heavy, did a lot of work consulting. Boy, that wants something interesting. I found in studying various of these huge criminal cases. When there's so much information, it becomes sort of no information. It's like trying to learn like what's really going on in the Gaza right now. While there's so much stuff, it's like there's no information, right? There's so much misleading contradictory. Each piece of evidence, you need to know it's heritage, right? I mean, where did this piece of evidence come? As you know, you study things, you find out that all this basic tenet of a case that, you know, the killer had on a red shirt. Well, you traced it back far enough and you find out, well, some guy that was at the scene when the first reporter came, said he had a red shirt and that was just an alcoholic who hangs out on that corner. It might not mean anything, right? So to answer your question directly, if God, someone who actually knows if God was going to pay off and you gave me 50, 50 odds, I'd say they were involved. Yeah. It's one of those things where it's just like, obviously, you're probably. It's Carlos Marks. But and it's here's my chief, my chief piece of evidence that you can't refute or that I just find to be too much of a coincidence. Jack Ruby talked on the phone in the day or two in between Kennedy's assassination and him assassinating Lee Harvey Oswald with guys from the Teamsters who were linked to being people that did the homicides enforcement. Jack, there's no question. Jack Ruby was incredibly he talked to Teamsters on the phone and he was connected to the Marcello mob. And he was connected to the Marcello mob. And the Teamsters he called and the Teamsters he called was a guy. Forget the guy's name, but he specifically was somebody. It wasn't Frank Sheeran. It's somebody else implicated in some homicides. It wasn't someone. Bernie, there you go. And who wasn't someone he normally talked to on the phone. He was a hitter and Ruby was connected through Chicago to Carlos Marcello down there who had control over Dallas. And he was friendly with the Chicago police and how a guy with the gun just roams into the police station. I don't see how you get past that. And then Ruby gets cancer and dies. And as we've seen from Vladimir Putin and as was admitted in the church committee hearings in 74, poisoning people, giving them stuff to cause cancer. I mean, that's something that Putin has done. And the church committee admitted trying with Castro, which means maybe they did it with somebody else. Well, so and you can trace the relationship between the Italian mafia in America and the CIA all or all the way back to World War Two. So and in doing Cold War, Hero and Heat, one of my documentaries, I could go Cold War, Hero and Heat, all streaming platforms. It was interesting to find out that the BND, Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs, which was shut down by Richard Nixon of all people for corruption, which was our corrupt world, poor runner to the then it was replaced by the DEA. So when that was created at the end of World War Two, well, I mean that existed, I'm sorry, already. And when World War Two ended in the OSS, the Office of Strategic Services got turned into the CIA. The people that trained the OSS agents who at that point had experience in being in wartime. Now they had to work in peacetime and infiltrate foreign countries. They were trained by narcotics detectives, Bureau of Narcotics people. So their first contacts in these foreign countries were criminals often international narcotics smugglers. And why in the circle around, why was the BND closed down for corruption by Nixon? While amongst other things, the most shocking of it was a scandal called the informant murders were during, and these records are still sealed. There were congressional hearings that at least we know of publicly, I think like 28, which means there was probably a lot more. These BND agents, the people who trained the CIA agents were killing each other's informant. So if I'm a BND agent and I got a snitch, and he's telling on Scott as a BND agent, he's protecting a member of the Genovese family. My guy is snitching to me about Scott while your agent comes and kills my snitch. So these guys were killing each other's snitches because they were telling on each other's corrupt benefactors. And you had a situation where, starting from after World War II or during World War II, to past the Kennedy assassination, but definitely through that time period leading up to it and during it, the CIA and the mafia had common interests and reminded them of an opportunity to work together. Well documented in the first elections after World War II in France and Italy, the Communist Party running, not some secret thing, but in a democratic election, the Communist Party and very left-wing socialists were looking like they were gonna do very well in the election. They, amongst other people, were did not wanna accept the Marshall Plan because they knew that would bring Western Europe into a very tight economic co-prosperity sphere to use a Japanese phrase with the United States. They're gonna vote against it. The Communists were gonna do well and the CIA, and this, I mean, there's CIA agents interviewed about this in documentaries on PBS, this is no secret, were paying people that were organized crime to bust up strikes. Well, best way to bust up a strike is to kill the strike leaders. So absolutely there were, and of course, the deal with Lucky Luciano, the Docs, that happened too. Right, and then you go to the Kennedy administration and, or I guess before the Kennedy administration, was it New Year's Day 59 or New Year's Day 60? Oh, in Havana? Yeah, 59. So New Year's Day 59 Castro unseats Batista in the Cuban Revolution. And immediately the intrigue starts. Right, and you have the mafia who was, you know, they had bought and paid for Batista. Oh, Cuba was there, that was their retirement, that was their IRA, that was their, we built the Empire Cram in the United States. Cuba was gonna be their legal, you know, our own island. A ton of money there, spent a lot of time there, controlled the government. Guys are gonna be able to move there. Like that was the mafia's retirement plan. Right, and they've been building it since Prohibition and then Castro puts a wrench into all of it. The CIA, America is in the middle of a Cold War. So, you know, you had the mafia wanting to get Castro out of there and go get their money back. Oh, million percent. Right, so there's already these seeds planted before the November 6th. And the CIA's old friend Lucky Luciano, well, the US government's old friend Lucky Luciano, remember, he gets out of prison, they deport him to Italy, he can't come to the US. So in 1947, he has that drug traffickers conference, basically they're in Cuba, where they set up the first post-war international heroin smuggling thing. And of course there was a different one set up in Detroit in the 50s, but the Luciano one was one of the, you know, that was when they specifically said we're gonna target black neighbor, we're gonna do Harlem first and blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, the ties, and this is all wholly documented. Well-documented. Beyond well-documented, this is out of PBS, New York Times, out of the horses mouth of CIA agents. And the church committee, you know, just read the report. Yeah, I mean, but it's, right. Mid-70s committee reports. And people under oath, CIA agents and other government officials under oath, they're like, yeah, that happened, we did that. Well, let's talk about the Kennedy family. I know you've done, you know, some research into Joe Kennedy, who was the patriarch, the one who started the, what we know is the modern day Kennedy dynasty. You know, he- Oh, his father was a little bit of somebody too, but- Oh, and he married into the, you know, kind of political royalty at a point. Yeah, I think the mayor's daughter, maybe. Mayor's daughter, right. But, you know, tell the viewers and listeners, you know, where Joe Kennedy kind of made some of his money. It wasn't all legitimate. Well, okay, so I think people are familiar with he was involved in bootlegging. Right. So, but we, that's, I think, no. So let's tell our audience some, some other stuff. So he did a bunch of things on Wall Street, did weren't illegal when he did them, but he was one of the people that caused a new set of laws to be passed. He was one of the people that created the pump and dump. So I buy a bunch of stack, I put out false news that causes the stack price to go up or down and make a bunch of money, which is, I mean, get you put in federal prison now. So now all those type of guys do it with cryptocurrency, which is the biggest organized crime moneymaker in history, but that's another story. So he made a bunch of money on that. And then he, here, so let me tell you one good story. So he type of guy, he was. And once again, this is poisoning assassination ally Jack Ruby. So anyone who's been to LA and Hollywood. I was gonna say, tell the pantages to you. Yeah. So anyone who's been to LA and Hollywood and the tourist area, there's something called the Pantages Theater. I've been there, I saw Aladdin, the musical Aladdin. Very, you know, it's like the Fox Theater in Detroit or the one of those theaters built in 1910, beautiful, restored, but it's always been active. Wow, the Pantages when it was built, it was a movie theater and there was a chain of them owned by a Greek immigrant named Pantages. So as their Joseph Kennedy left Wall Street and bootlegging ended, because it was like the early 30s and liquor was legal. He needed to, he was very rich at this point and he was made the head of MCM movie production. And at that time, it was not a violation of antitrust for movie production company to own theaters. So he wanted to own the Pantages, which was a large theater chain around, I don't know, the whole country or large parts of the country. Pantages didn't want to sell. So Pantages is sitting in his office one day there in Hollywood Boulevard. 17 year old girl comes in. Oh, I'd like to see Mr. Pantages. I have an appointment. The secretary sends him in. She immediately after a minute or two comes running out of his office with their clothes torn. He already peed me. So Pantages is a Greek immigrant. I mean, this the 30s. If you're an immigrant, you know, your change is a justice, not as good. Plus, you know, a young girl saying somebody, all right, Peter, well, we weren't used to that in Hollywood yet, big, big scandal. Pantages gets found guilty. He gets 50 years in prison. While he's in prison, of course, the value of the theater tanks, Joseph Kennedy swoops in buys the whole chain for pennies on the dollar of what he would have had to pay for it. But the case was so hinky that the judge, I don't know how long Pantages said in prison wasn't too long, a year, three, 10 months. I'm not sure long enough for Kennedy to get the chain. But the judge calls it back in and is like, no, this ain't right. And he like overturns the verdict because you didn't know judges can do that. Jury can't overturn a judge's verdict, but a judge can say, no, not to find you guilty, but a judge can remove a guilty verdict. Right, and declare a mistrial. Yeah, so that's what he did. But the girl ends up saying, well, actually I have an older boyfriend, a pimp, and he put me up to it. I just went in there, tore my clothes, ran out. It was all a lie. And then she gave an interview where she said, Joseph Kennedy paid me and my boyfriend to do it. As soon as she gives that, she fought. Mind you, she said like 18 at this point, she falls ill with some weird like cancer or something. It like dies in a week as if she were poisoned. Well, we know that Joe Kennedy. And Joe Kennedy made milk, you know, he benefited tremendously. And of course, MCM as well, Ronald Reagan ended up being an actor for and the strike breaker, he helped Brady. He was very anti-union in Hollywood. Teamsters had a grip in Hollywood. It's all intertwined. And, you know, Joe Kennedy from a very early- Big bootlegger while he was the ambassador to England. Right, well, I was gonna say before he reaches a point where he gets into American politics and is given an ambassador ship, very valuable ambassador ship at that point to Great Britain. The second biggest economy in the world. Yeah, and he brings the whole family over there. You know, he has 10 kids and he has his eyes on his end games to get one of his sons in the White House. I mean, this isn't something that- I ran up by the time that happened over it, when did he have his stroke? Well, no, that's okay. I'm gonna get to that in a second. So- It's God's hand. I was gonna say, I've always said, and I'm gonna jump ahead and then go backwards, that if Joe Kennedy doesn't have his stroke that Al just referenced and he had it in 61 shortly after John is sworn in. Okay, he was in his right mind to see his victory. Yes, and but shortly thereafter, he has his stroke. What's weird though is, you know, you think like you're one of the richest people in the country, you're very powerful. Like, okay, like it's nice. It's your son being the president is great, but like- What I'm saying- I guess I'm not a power hungry person, but- What I'm saying is Joe was his son's fixer and his son's back room wheeler dealer. Oh, right. So his protection goes away. Or his Cardinal Richelieu goes away. And you had, you know, two things happen, one leading to the other, or I guess one leading to the other leading to the other. Kennedy wins the election. We can talk about whether or not it was on the up and up. It was one of the closest elections in American history. They're all, my thing on that is a lot, probably the shadiness equals out on both sides. Yeah. There was rumors that the Chicago mob and the Detroit mob and some guys in other parts- You think you're required, but Republicans are stopping black people from voting in the South. So, you know, it all kind of probably equals out. Some election integrity issues, I guess, in Illinois and then in West Virginia. West Virginia, which the Detroit guys allegedly had- And it's funny, there was a lot of mob activity. There's a lot of coal mining scandal stuff. Dan Moldea made his, that was his first big case, I think. Well, and Dan Moldea wrote Dark Victory, which was the story of Ronald Reagan and the mafia and all that stuff. Oh, right. Okay, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Dan Moldea. How's he doing? He's doing all right. We had him on to talk off a couple of weeks ago. So he's, you know, he's an OG, man. He's pushing, you know, in his mid-70s now, I think. But where we go with the Kennedys is, I've always said, if Joe Kennedy doesn't have that stroke, who knows what happens? Because- Oh, that's very astute on your part. I didn't think of that. Yeah, because he was the hard, he had all the connections. Two things happen. So you have the stroke that Joe Kennedy is felled by in 61. He doesn't kill him, but he becomes kind of a vegetable to a degree. At that point- According to Robert Kennedy Jr., the crazy person who thinks he should be president, his grandfather could only communicate through grunts. And at this point, it looks like all bets are off with any relationship between the Kennedys and the nefarious figures that might have or might not have helped them get into office. And at this point, Bobby Kennedy goes full court press mode as attorney general, after all these guys that in their mind, at least, they felt like they had bought a presidency with the help of Joe Sr., Bobby's turn. Bobby was, yeah, on another page. Great, Bobby starts going after him because he sees it as good for his political future. Yeah, those Kefauer and other, was there another hearing? I mean, those really- Well, and Kefauer- Well, and Kefauer, I mean, those really were in city. I mean, it showed it in city- On national television. Though there was a hype element to it, you know? But there was a real element too. I mean, in some of those old school gangsters and not just the Italian guys, it's all those people were pretty sinister on national TV. So the two questions I would have would be, if Joe Kennedy was of sane mind, does Bobby Kennedy get let loose? No. Could John and Kennedy take, you know- No. Leash off and say, go after these guys? No. Probably no. Joe would have had some type of- And then Joe would have sm- And then even if it did get off the ground, Joe would have, most likely, would he have smoothed it over? It would have- I didn't know he would have- It definitely wouldn't have been as bad. Like, even if it went forward, it wouldn't have been as bad. He would have figured out some middle ground. Bravo. It's also interesting to point out, I think, for, again, being a kind of a Kennedy aficionado, I don't know if people realize is that John F. Kennedy was not the golden boy at first. He was not the chosen one. He was looked at as kind of a defective Kennedy. He was very sickly, was not what his brother Joe Jr. was, who was killed. Who was killed. Right. Joe Jr. was the one that was like the all-American four-point student quarterback of the Harvard football team. As good looking as John F. Kennedy was, Joe Kennedy was better looking. He was the out-profit of the family. Yes. He could have been a movie star. He was a star athlete. And he was tragically shot. What, his airplane shot down? So yeah, this is an interesting story. I want to tell that. I don't know. A lot of people know. I don't know it. So the story is that, again, one was clearly the favorite son in Joe Jr. How much older was he? Four or five years. The Irish pop him out all in a row. And like people don't know, Joe Sr. was very, very against us getting into World War II. He was a Nazi sympathizer. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty bizarre. Right. Didn't want us to get into World War II. But when Pearl Harbor happens and we're attacked by the Japanese and we're drawn in to World War II, then it becomes advantageous for Joe Sr. to have his sons go to war and become war heroes. The impression was that Joe Sr. was going to go and win the Purple Heart and come home and run for office. Could he have kept them out of the war? Would what? Could he have kept them out of the war? I mean, I think his opinion, Joe Sr.'s opinion, up until 41 was one of the main reasons that we stayed out of the war. No, could he have kept his sons out of the war? Oh, yeah. Of course, yes. Yes, he could have kept his sons out of the war. But he wanted them to go and they wanted to go. So going into it, if you were gonna- Well, they wouldn't have been able to run for all. If they would have been ducked to war, yeah. But if there were the betting odds, you would say that Joe was gonna go be a hero and John was gonna go and kind of blend into the background. Well, they both go off to war. John is in the South Pacific. Joe is like in what is today like Delta Force, like, you know, as top of the line. Was he a pilot? He wasn't a pilot? He was, no, he was. So, but what's interesting is they both go to war in the first year or two of the war. Joe doesn't see a lot of action. I think he's training and getting, you know, like this top level clearance. John becomes a war hero, kind of surprisingly, I think to his own family, because he had been so sickly, but- I mean, was there ever, did anyone ever think there was anything fake about Kenneth JFK's heroism? Probably, I'm sure- Cause his book was fake. He had it goes right or right as a book. So he comes home after being awarded a Medal of Valor for saving people in the South Pacific. It's his dad's 50th birthday party. They're at- Genius, we're about to be 50. Right, that's crazy. War hero, some's about to be president. Jesus Christ. So it's their- What have we done with our lives? They're on Martha's Vineyard and they're celebrating his 50th birthday party. And he is at- For the first time in the history of the Kennedy family, he is more smitten with Jack than he is Joe. And according to the story, I'm sure there's some mythology involved in this. He toasts Jack Kennedy at the party and Joe leaves the room and is fuming that his brother got a bronze star or a proper heart before he did. At that point, he volunteers for a mission that is like as dangerous as dangerous can be. What year was this? 44. And knowing that if I do this, I will now upstage my birthday. Yeah, because those air raids, it was like 50-50 where you're gonna come back. He was to dump a bunch of explosives into Nazi military points. Yeah, those guys were pretty heroic because it was 50-50 where you're gonna come back. So he goes, and within, I'm telling you, within months of this party, his dad's 50th birthday party, Joe, I believe passes away in tragic fashion as a war hero. He doesn't, his ejection seat doesn't work. He can't eject out and the plane blows up with him in it. Oh, like he was, did you dive by the plane eject out? Oh, wow. Right. At that point, now John is number one son and now it's his, it's for him to become president. But for all this time, up until that point, John or Jack was an afterthought. Boy, so that's all, to psychologize it, either their competitiveness was such, did he wanted to one-up them and then there was probably also a fatal, you know. Yeah. That's a parent, a child hurts his parent the most. That's, you know, a lot of times with suicide, people will leave a note, you know, hey mom, great job raising me, you know. So, boy, that's dark. Yeah. And then it was, So it wasn't in part of his nor he had completed his tour and specifically after his brother was feted as a war hero. He said, I'm gonna go back and do the most high-risk thing. Yeah, the most dangerous possible, most heroic possible thing I can volunteer for. And that's the end of Joe Kennedy, you know, one of the things that begins what they call the Kennedy curse with a lot of the sons and grandsons and nephews and grandnephews meeting pretty, and daughters meeting pretty horrid. Shout out to Rosemary. Yeah. And then the other daughter, she was lobotomized and then the other daughter died in a plane crash with her husband who was like royalty of some sort. Oh, Prince Reign, no. Yeah, the Kathleen, I believe the daughter Kathleen. Was she with the Prince of Manicor? That was somebody else. She was married to a prince of some country and they died in a plane crash. But John becomes president, Jack becomes president. He's only, to me, is something that I find noteworthy for someone that the mythology is just as- 1,000 days. He was not president for that long. 1,000 days, right? By 2 and 1 half years. Yeah, it's like 1,000 days, they say. Yeah. And it seems like not that you can ever, you know, predict these things, but that people knew going into Dallas at that time period was probably a little bit more dangerous than going into other major cities. Would you say that's true? Okay, so to go back to what Richard and I did in my op-kilum, so in these conspiracies, and I think two of the, and here, a good conspiracy, because to me it seems very clear cut to show a person how this would work. Now, the Kennedy thing was much more complicated. Malcolm X. So if you're Elijah Muhammad and you want Malcolm X dead, you have an organization, and certainly not all the people in the nation, Islam then joined in prison and certainly not everybody was violent, but you had a fair amount of people who he helped, people that were drug addicts and maximum security prison who turned their life around, who were fanatically loved Elijah Muhammad and were rough guys. So if you put a drawing, which they did on the cover of the final call with Malcolm X's head bouncing down the steps, calling him an infidel, well, there's a high chance that some one or two or three of these violent followers you have in some city and some opportunity are gonna kill him and you never know such thing as a tacit conspiracy. He never has to assign anybody to do anything to Malcolm X. He figured it would eventually happen. So to go to your point of Dallas, if you know that there's this bubbling cauldron of Cubans who want the Kennedys, they're upset about the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy at this point is hands off with the like, you know, we're not gonna mess with Cuba. That was too embarrassing. We want a new president who's gonna aggressively push Castro and then you got the mob upset at him. Yeah, Vietnam, which is in the early stages. A variety of reasons from we're not getting what we wanted from what we paid for, but more so than that, his brother, you know, and then of course, Marcelo getting deported. Hafa hated it. I mean, Jimmy Hafa despised. Oh, well, RFK, I mean, I have a whole chapter that in the killing Jimmy Hafa. I mean, these guys are having push-up contests against each other like in the basement of the courthouse. Like, you know, they did, they detested each other. And when JFK died, Jimmy Hafa, he refused to raise the flag. Standing order. I mean, to bring it to half mass. Standing order for all Teamsters locals around the country to not put their flag at half mass. That's unheard of. Yeah. So, yeah, and that, so that whole, and you don't, we don't see in movies about the South and the mob, but- Trapecante, that Trapecante- Listen, in 1960, the FBI is right up on the mob and of course it's imperfect, but one report listed Marcelo as possibly the most powerful single mafioso. He was the only, him and Traficante weren't answerable to the commission. Right. And so people know Tampa and New Orleans are actually the two oldest mafia places. Italian immigrants went to those two places even before New York, cause the climate was similar. And there was incidents in New Orleans. In the 1800s. They, in 1889 or something, then they rushed to jail and hung a bunch of Sicilians. Like, stuff was going on down there long before New York, like 30 years before New York. And even though there hasn't been a mafia in Texas in quite a long time. Well, they did. And then there was a mafia in Dallas. And they were, and even if there's not made men, they're people that are- Joe Savillo was the don. You know, he was a guy that had respect around the country. I mean- And they were answerable. They were under Marcelo's sway. Marcelo had a lot of power. Yeah. Marcelo and Traficante had a lot of power. They had drugs coming in. They were away from everybody else. The South was poorer and probably more like Sicily in a sense of weaker government, easier to corrupt. Yeah, and Jack Ruby was a Midwestern guy. His real name was Jack Rubenstein. Chicago transplant. Home Chicago. It spent some time in Detroit. Went down to Dallas. His brother, Earl Ruby. Where I went to elementary school, Earl Ruby cleaners. I was there on six and between six and seven. And Levernoy was between six and seven. I walk past that every day. He moved down to Dallas and was tied into all these guys. And then let's talk about Lee Harvey Oswell. We've left his name out of this, but whatever you want to believe about him and connections to the Machia, which I think you can find, there's no question in my mind- Oh, he was an agent. He was definitely an agent of the U.S. Whether witting or unwitting. Yeah. And that's when I go back to the Malcolm X example of where you can create a, if I want somebody, if I want Scott killed, if I orchestrate the kind of people that don't like Scott to be around him or I let Scott be around him or I let a situation kind of, hey, there's a rumor that Scott told on somebody in Detroit and I don't put out the fire. I let that spread through Detroit and I don't tell Scott and I start, hey, Scott, you should hang out in Detroit more. Well, eventually maybe you're gonna be somewhere where someone does something to you. I don't have to set up a conspiracy. I create a dangerous situation and let you be there. Plant seeds and cultivate those seeds for them to grow themselves. And that way there's no crack, there's no trail. But as well, you ever read Norman Mailer's book, Aswald's Tale? He defected to Russia. And then came right back and then it just. With no problem, with no problem. What? In the middle of the height of the Cold War. It's absurd. Right. It's absurd. And then there's video of him or video where there's, I don't know. Mexico City. There's tapes of him in Mexico City. There's other tapes of him in the French Quarter, New Orleans doing some. Leafletting. I have the footage and killing Jimmy. Go watch killing Jimmy off. I got the footage of him passing out anti-Castro Leaflets. Yeah. But where he was supposed to be pro-Castro if he was communist. So, you know, but that brings you back to crazy. Like, Lee Harvey Aswald was certainly someone that wanted to be important. Yeah. And, you know, it's only luck that Aswald even came. See, I don't think they expected Aswald to make it to custody. Because remember, he shot that cop. Yeah. And the idea that you assassinate the president and that you would think a guy like that is not going to get taken into custody probably. And then as you're back up, you're like, oh shit, we got to get him killed and they have Ruby do it. Lee Harvey Aswald is totally fascinating character. I would suggest anyone interested in this to read Norman Mailer's very long, but well researched nonfiction book. It's called Aswald's Tale. Yeah. And he interviews Aswald's handlers, the former KGB in Russia. But again, Aswald's Tale itself as just a sub part of the Kennedy thing. There's so much information in your head swims and you just don't know what to make of any of it. I mean, he's probably. He brought back a Russian bride. Yeah. He wasn't someone that was directly like, hey, he met the CIA at a diner and they said kill Kennedy. I mean, he was a flake and there's no smoking gun. So whatever was being done with him was, again, I just think it was this there were people that wanted Kennedy dead and there was yes, but it parts of the government. And then, you know, people throw around the word the government as if your government's so gigantic, you know, me, me, me and you and our area can have a plan that someone else is not in on. And the perfect storm happened and they had basically, remember, this is the same time when US soldiers were coming back from North Korea that had been effectively brainwashed to Manchurian candidate. I mean, you know, hypnosis is a certain amount of people are very susceptible to hypnosis to deep. There are not everybody's susceptible to this, but there's people you could put deep hypnotic implant into it and turn them on. No, this stuff is real. It doesn't work on everybody. But if you got 20 eyeswolds floating around, all you need is for one of them to be in the right place at the right time and for it to happen. Now, is there some real specific this guy and this guy met up and said we're going to kill him this day and had these people do it? That's hard to really... It's hard to prove. It's almost impossible. Yeah, there's all this evidence that something was going on. That's why I'm left with the idea that there were... It's sort of like, I want to kill Scott. It ain't something I think... It's not something I think about every day. And I get a call, Scott is drunk in an alley in Detroit urinating at three in the morning because he secretly is a fucking crackhead. And I'm like, oh, shit, we'll shoot him in the head. It's quite a scenario I just made up. But you know what I'm saying? Some weird opportunity presents itself. And frankly... They didn't have any security. He's just a guy and a fucking rapper that had more security than Kennedy did that. Talk logistically, was this Oswald shooting from the Book Depository or were there multiple shooters? I've never really... I've found it hard that there would be several other guys with rifles who fired them. And there's no sightings. There's no evidence. There's nothing on film other than that vague, those bums getting rounded up or whatever that was. I think it was... There weren't people on a grassy knoll, I don't think. Could there have been a... The fact that the bullets, supposedly, all the movements of the bullet is pretty ridiculous. You know, the bullet would have five entry and exit wounds or something. I think there was another shooter probably in a building. And I think it's... They knew somebody... Because Oswald, people don't know, Oswald shot that general. Did you know about that? Yeah. He didn't kill him. He didn't kill right wing... See, and then that's another thing when Oswald, one minute, he's... Because he did shoot this racist right wing general. But then you want to kill the liberal Kennedy. Oswald, I think, was just a flake who wanted to be important. That they knew could be maneuvered into being up in the... Depository, but there was some one or two other professional shooters in a building somewhere who did... Maybe Oswald's bullet hit him too, but who were there to really do it. And Oswald was the fall guy, like he said. But, I mean, to your point, you said a couple minutes ago about the security. Take away conspiracy or no conspiracy. The fact that up until 1963, a president could be in an open motorcade like that. And mind you, people... You know, Abraham Lincoln was obviously... Someone came up behind him in a theater. At the end of a war and shot him in the head. And then McKinley was killed in 1901. And Roosevelt was nearly killed in Chicago. It's mind-blowing that it took something like that to create the way that the Secret Service does things now, but back then it seemed to be... McKinley, the fact that McKinley was killed in 1901, you had two presidents killed in 35 years. Lincoln and McKinley, kind of surprising such little security. And then seeing how history is so fluid and how a bad guy can become a good guy and a good guy can become a bad guy. With Bobby Kennedy, you know, by 1968, five years later, as liberal as John F. Kennedy was, the Kennedy family was still pretty... They were conservative. They're one of the richest families in the country. Yeah, but what I'm saying is by 1968, Bobby was like... At least who his support was coming from were like full-on hippies. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he had done a kind of an about face with some of his hard line, you know, issues towards things and had really softened. From everything I've read, you know, he went into a deep depression after his brother died because he claimed himself and it makes sense. There's also... I think that there were people that wanted Kennedy dead that probably like there's people who want every president dead. And Oswald was a flake that the US government... Well, somebody in the CIA military kept him as an asset. Said this guy, he's a marksman. He was a Marine. He could be useful to do something to somebody because that's what they do. They keep all these assets they're called. So if you're a CIA asset, you won't even know it, right? I meet some woman who gets me in a love affair just in case I could be turned. They want to do some propaganda through YouTube. They got her to guide me. Maybe I never get used. What happened with Kennedy to KGB? I had a female spy having an affair with Kennedy. Oh, yeah, it was... Well, the more frightening possibility... I mean, I don't discount that the Soviets could have been a part of it, but they would have definitely had to... See, that points to the extreme cover-up because that would have... The American public would have almost demanded World War III. And weren't there two different... I should have researched this before I jumped on live, or not live, but on our recording. Warren Commission comes out and says single shooter. But wasn't there another report that was released that said, no, we don't think it was a single shooter? Yes. I don't know what it was called, but yeah. Two different reports. The more famous Warren Commission. The official real one, yeah. Right. And then Bobby Kennedy's killed in 68, and I still really have very little understanding of that. I don't know enough about that to talk about it. I mean... There's a lot of crazy people that want to feel important. And I mean, just for me being our prophet, just to stuff people say to you on YouTube, like, there's people obsessed with me. No, yeah. You know, much less someone like that. And if you kill a president, I mean, you are important. I mean, I just to wrap it up. My personal theory is that the mafia was, you know, most likely behind this. They felt like they were buying a... So you're saying they were the guiding force. It wasn't an element of US intelligence. No, I think it was the CIA and the mafia working together as a offshoot of their relationship. And what did the CIA... What did whoever was controlling those CIA agents, what was their goal? Why? Well, I think that there was a lot of worry that Kennedy, after what happened in the Bay of Pigs, not worry, I think it was accepted fact that he did not trust his military advisors. Because he kind of ended the... Like he... Because he said, oh, you did such a bad job. The CIA was kind of put on ice, right? I feel like the military industrial complex was worried that he was gonna not go all in on Vietnam and not do what they wanted him to do in regards to Castro and the Cold War. They were already in bed with the Italians. The Italians had their own reasons to want to get rid of them. And the mob thought they were buying a president. In reality, they put in an enemy in the White House that immediately once he got in, came after him. What about the personal angle of just Marcelo so upset that he was deported? No, and then there's no question those personal feelings play a role in it with all these guys. You know, with Hoffa, even though Hoffa was not a mobster per se, for all intents and purposes he was, and he was a guy that had a lot of influence and say, and he had a ton of personal animus against the Kennedys. You know, he's in the ears of guys like Trapaconte and Marcelo, not to mention the guys up in Detroit, Chicago. So, this was fun, man. Thank you, Al, for joining us. Break down the Kennedys and the Mafia 60 year anniversary of the JFK assassination. We both are of the opinion that the mob most likely played a role in the... It wasn't just Lee Harvey Oswald randomly doing it. So, you know, I enjoy these, getting back on the same page with Al. We started together, made our bones together. He's out... He's repping games to report OG West Coast and we're keeping it real here in the Midwest. Real quick, I'll tell them where people can get everything from you. YouTube.com slash Al Prophet. Also, American Dope has some merch and Scott, I'm gonna be... Me and my dad going to England the 19th, but I'll be there about the 9th. Yeah, but I'll be coming to Detroit around the 9th. So, let's do some stuff. We'll do some content for the channel for both of ours. Yeah, let's do some Caldean stuff. Yes, we're teasing it. I want to go to that store in Oak Park where the bath party killed somebody. Yeah, we're gonna tease it. Iraqi Mafia coming at you soon. For Al Prophet, for Benny behind the glass, OG Pod, out.