 Welcome to the 30th and final meeting of 2017 of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee. I would like to remind members and members of the public to turn off mobile phones. Any members using electronic devices to access committee papers during the meeting should please ensure that they are switched to silent. Apologies have been received from Joan McAlpine, the convener, hence my chairing of this morning's proceedings, and also from Tavish Scott. I welcome Kate Forbes, who is here as a substitute at this meeting for Joan McAlpine. Our first item of business today is a decision on taking agenda item 4 in private. Our members agreed. Thank you very much. That's much appreciated. Our main item of business today is to take evidence on the Scottish Government's draft budget for 2018-19. We will hear later from the Cabinet Secretary, but first I would like to welcome our first panel from Creative Scotland, and a warm welcome today to Janet Archer, the chief executive, and to Ian Monroe, a deputy chief executive. I believe that Janet Archer wishes to make an opening statement. Thank you very much, Deputy convener. It's very good to be here today. I want to start by thanking the committee for inviting us to give evidence this morning. As always, with such evidence sessions, we're here to represent not just Creative Scotland, but also the people and organisations working across culture and creativity in Scotland to whom we've made 1,130 funding awards worth a total of £66.2 million over the past year. In terms of the draft budget announced by the Scottish Government last week, we welcome the increase in our grant in aid budget for 2018-19, including, importantly, an additional £6.6 million to support regular funding. This commitment from the Scottish Government fills the gap left by the decline in income from the national lottery and brings the amount of money available to us to support the next round of regular funding 2018-21 into line with current levels. Particularly worth noting from the draft budget is the Scottish Government's commitment to our budget for the next three years, and this will help us to provide more certainty for those that we're able to support, and it's been warmly welcomed by the cultural sector. As such, I would like to formally thank the Cabinet Secretary, Fiona Hyslop, Government officials, Creative Scotland staff and board MSPs, including this committee and the cross-party group on culture, and everyone in the culture sector. Everyone has worked hard to raise awareness of the cultural, social and economic value that creativity brings to all of our lives. I'm in no doubt that this will be a significant factor in delivering a positive. That this has been a significant factor in delivering a positive budget settlement for culture at a time when public finances overall continue to be under pressure. As regards to regular funding, we currently support 118 regularly-funded organisations with a combined total of 32.7 million through grant in aid supplemented with national lottery funding. This includes organisations across Scotland, across art forms and across different scales. That ranges from the Edinburgh International Festival, Celtic Connections, and Lanter and Storn Away, Meryl in Shetland and the Beacon in Greenock, the Stovon, Dumfries, Hospitalfield in Arbroath and Peacock Arts in Aberdeen. We're mindful, however, that while our settlement from the Scottish Government's positive, demand for regular funding continues to be high. We've received 184 eligible applications, and overall, those applicants requested a total amount of 153 million over a three-year period. We are now in the process of finalising our recommendations to our board, and we're going to set that against an impact analysis of each of our recommendations and an equality's impact assessment. Creative Scotland's board will meet on 18 January, and we will set the budget for 18-19 at that point, and, importantly, the board will make decisions in relation to regular funding. Provisional date for the announcement to applicants is on 25 January. In terms of highlights from the annual review 1617, looking back, we shared that with the committee, and we've now published that on our website. In the last year, the last full year, regularly funded organisations delivered an 8% increase in the number of performances, festivals, exhibitions, projects and events, reaching 23% more people in more parts of the country, particularly in the 20% most deprived areas of Scotland. Their work also supported jobs and skills development, as well as, of course, the local and the national economy. It's interesting to note that across the creative industries, there are 11,000 more jobs in Scotland now than there were a year ago. That's a tremendous uplift in relation to where the creative sectors now are. In the same year, we also made nearly 600 awards. We averaged £19,000 to creative individuals and organisations through our open project funding programme, rewarding almost 11.5 million at National Lottery and granting age funding to projects across Scotland. Again, the increased funding available from the Scottish Government next year means that we'll be able to continue to allocate national lottery funding to project funding and strategic funding. Our open project funding, the project funding that runs throughout the year, sits alongside the 436 awards we've made through targeted funding, which is time-limited funding for a strategic specific purpose, amounting to more than £22.7 million for key initiatives, including our support for screen, the youth music initiative and for cashback for creativity. We work really closely with young people through our creative learning work, developing current and future opportunities, and that's particularly important to us in the run-up to 2018. We've got 12 separate funds for young people in 2018, and we recently announced the Year of Young People traineeships, the nurturing talent fund and our really exciting Our Shared World project, which will bring young people together from across the world to voice their views in relation to what they want their world to be. Another key part of our budget for 2018-19 is an additional £10 million, which will be invested in the screen, which will double our annual screen budget to £20 million. This is going to help us further build on the record level of film and TV production that we're seeing in Scotland at the moment. 70 million spend in 2016, that's up 200 per cent over the last decade and 30 per cent in the last year alone, so much to build on. This proves that Scotland's talent, crews, facilities and award-winning locations continue to be a huge attraction to film and TV productions, including in the past year, transporting to Outlander the Wife and Outlaw King, which has just finished shooting, and Outlaw King has been, its overall budget is $120 million, so significant in relation to what it's achieved. That growth is going to be accelerated by the new screen unit, which Creative Scotland, the proposals of which were signed off by the Cabinet Secretary and published last week. The collaborative proposal has been developed by Creative Scotland and Screen Unit Partners, which includes Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise, Skills Development Scotland and the Scottish Funding Council, as well as input from people and organisations working in the screen sector. I'd like to particularly thank the Screen Sector Leadership Group with John McCormick as their chair for their invaluable input into the process. Combining the expertise of Creative Skills and Enterprise Partners, the screen unit proposal sets out a shared vision and sets out ambitious targets for the Scottish screen sector. We've now begun the work to implement the plans and ambition set out in the proposal. In conclusion, creativity really does matter to Scotland. This year's figures show us that 90 per cent of Scotland's population think that public funding for culture and creativity is a good thing, that the arts and creative industry contributed £4.6 billion to the Scottish GVA, and that's up from 3.7 last year. It supports almost 86,000 jobs, and we know that 90 per cent of the population takes part in regular cultural activity. Culture has a huge role to play in the successful future of our country. It's fantastic that this is recognised by the Scottish Government in the draft budget. It's a budget that recognises the talent, energy and ambition of our creative sectors and clearly positions culture as a vital part of the fabric of our society. I look forward to this morning's discussion. Thank you very much, and I know that colleagues will have questions on our range of issues. Perhaps we can start with the screen unit and the proposals for that. Clearly, we came to create of Scotland a couple of weeks ago, at least a number of members of the committee were able to attend on that occasion, but not really to get the kind of detail that perhaps we'd hoped for. I wonder if you would just like to say a little bit about that meeting that we had two weeks ago at Creative Scotland. Yes. First of all, I'm very pleased that we're able to speak openly about the contents of the proposal in this forum. I'm sorry we weren't able to discuss the detail of that when we met at Creative Scotland. You have all now seen the screen proposal and will have a sense of its vision and it's founded on a partnership between agencies, but it's a partnership between agencies and government and the sector, particularly working together. The way that we're setting it up is to have a governance structure that sits within Creative Scotland, that will bring in industry expertise, our partners and Creative Scotland's board members who will hold responsibility for ensuring that the outcomes that are set in the screen unit are delivered. Perhaps since I had the opportunity to see the detail. I wonder if you could perhaps just explain the reasons for the difficulties two weeks ago. Was there a delay in the completion of the proposal or was there another reason why you were not there? It was just an administrative reality that the proposal, the letter which approved the screen unit proposal had not arrived with us on that date. Rather than trying to adjust in order to be able to accommodate that, we just had to be straightforward and honest with you. There was no issue in terms of the timeframe. We resented the Cabinet Secretary on 7 November and after that date we obviously wanted to take feedback into account in relation to producing the final blueprint proposal. In order to do that, we needed to work with our partners, of which there are many, and we needed to go through that process to produce the final proposal before we published it. That's all that we were doing in that window in relation to time, but there were no issues. The partners are all very positive in relation to their contribution. As a project board, over the course of that period, I'm very excited about the new way that we're working with agency partners, which stands us in good stead for collaborative working in the future. Excellent. You mentioned the letter had been an issue. Whose letter was that to be the letter that wasn't able to go at the time? The letter wasn't an issue. We were expecting it. It was clearly inappropriate to talk about the detail of the proposal before it was in the public domain. We did publish it immediately after we received the letter, and it's been welcomed very positively by the screen industry. Can you tell me a little bit about how you anticipate the additional funding being spent, how much of that will go towards the actual creation of the unit and how much additional funding is around some of the creative initiatives there? The broadly 20 million, which is our screen budget, will see 12 million invested in different types of content development and production. 3.85 million will support audiences in exhibition. A million will go into skills and talent development. Two million will go into business development infrastructure. We estimate that there will be around a million extra investment in relation to staffing. Some of that is about supporting the new data hub, which is a critical part of this new project. Set-up happens from now, in fact, from a few weeks ago, into getting us to the start date on April 1. We're building the cost of that into this year's budgets. Clearly, this coming year is a critical year for the establishment of the unit and for taking that forward. What do you anticipate as the future funding requirements and how much of this funding for the coming financial year will meet needs that will continue beyond that and how much will be the current? Obviously, our budget plan, the screen unit proposal, is predicated on outcomes which are set over a five-year period. We're building that into our budget plans going forwards and we will need to look at how the screen unit is resourced in the future once we've started to ascertain exactly what our needs are and once the screen unit is set up. We clearly have set high targets over a five-year period and the screen unit will need to be resourced over that period, as indeed all of our other work needs to be resourced over that period in order to deliver. But until we actually start generating specific outcomes and we can measure what the input needs to be in order to generate those in a really founded sense, I think we shouldn't, at this stage, make assumptions in relation to future needs. Kate Forbes. Is there a specific question on Gaelic Scots and traditional arts? I noticed that last year you were able to give awards amounting to almost £1 million particularly to Gaelic. In terms of looking to the year ahead, would you be expecting to be able to give similar levels of awards to Gaelic Scots and traditional arts? All of our awards are based on applications. What we award is subject to the applications that we receive. We're really pleased with the increase in awards for Gaelic particularly over the past period. We would hope that we would continue to receive applications over the course of the next year. We have a Gaelic Language Plan. We have an increasing number of Gaelic speakers in the organisation. We're genuinely starting to embed Gaelic in a much more meaningful way across everything that we do, including Screen, in fact, where we've supported Bannon with MG Alibar in a really proactive way. It's a really important part of our work. Kate Forbes. Rachel Hamilton. Good morning, Janet. I wanted to ask you a few specific questions on one of the glasses. Bear with me. I just wanted to ask you about the capital funding that will be allocated, the £1.8 million for the Rural Development Fund, which is going to go towards promoting the south of Scotland. I just wondered if you had any more information about who would be responsible for spending this capital funding and when it was likely to kick off. Capital funding through Creative Scotland, or capital funding? Through the major events budget for historic environment Scotland. Is that really more to ask the Cabinet Secretary? That's fine. Move on to my second question, which was about the local authority funding. Obviously, you clearly get a lot more applications for funding than you're able to allocate. To award that is, I just wondered if you could talk us through the process of how you allocate those awards. Okay. Would you like to take that in? I'm happy to, good morning everyone. We have a range of programmes that we run, different funding routes, but in broad sense a model process, which means that we receive the applications. We have set timescales that we publish, criteria that we publish and what the specialist officers and teams within Creative Scotland do is apply their expertise to the assessment of those individual proposals. We know what budget allocation is as we move throughout the year and we make sure that we, particularly through the Open Project Fund, which is a rolling programme, manage that budget throughout the year to ensure that there are on-going opportunities for people. Those specialist assessments then move into a panel, which is a different set of expertise, combined staff and this year we've also been working with a pool of external specialists who've been sitting with staff to make decisions on those applications and then they're communicated out accordingly. We know that we have many more fantastic ideas and projects and so on from artists and practitioners and organisations than we are able to fund. The application of that expertise has to be open and transparent and it's captured in the assessment reports on that decision making process which is available to any end-of-re-applicant and we often engage in a very positive constructive way on the outcome where there is an unsuccessful application with the individual applicant to provide feedback to help them to consider how they might strengthen any future proposals but recognising, of course, that there's never enough money and financial resource to support everything that we might want to. On that point, there's obviously a huge creative sector in Scotland that's bursting to receive funding to kick off their ideas. I just wondered, do you say that you talked about to actually support those people to get to that stage? We've got good data collection and analysis and we're increasingly trying to make sure that we share that visibly so that people can see that in a transparent way through our website and we publish monthly grants listings. What we do recognise is that there are parts of Scotland and there are particular communities and indeed individuals who would welcome a more engaged dialogue with Creative Scotland in order to help to support them to build capacity to make confident applications. I think it's always a a kind of tension between the capacity that we have versus the demand that exists to respond to that but we absolutely are proactively ensuring that we are across Scotland our staff are out and about across Scotland engaging with people in dialogue trying to support them to talk about their ideas explain what the opportunities are and how they can make an application to Scotland. We monitor that through the data that we get in the applications that we receive and the awards that we make to understand where we might need to make some very specific targeted interventions. An example of that would be in a geographic sense where we have a very proactive analysis of where the geography of applications and spend is through the open streams of funding that we have but where we see there may be particular needs we have for example a partnership called the place partnerships which is with the local authority and individual principal organisations in that area to try and build capacity to enable them to make funding applications and we've got 12 of those active across the country at the moment many of them in the constituencies of the committee members today. Gunthood. I think it's important to recognise that creative Scotland funding we're not the only player in the game so there are many other funders local authorities are a key part of Scotland's cultural landscape regular funding where we invest 33 million 109 million through other sources that includes other public funding but also private funding and trust funding and our role is to understand how best to utilise our money not just in and of itself but also to leverage and unlock partnerships so that collectively we can create the best conditions for the creative sectors in Scotland to thrive. I think that one of the examples in the borders is Gala Shields where 2.5 million of that funding will go towards the tapestry and the rest will be provided by the local authority. Of course there is a benefit there from a social and an economic point of view however much of many of my constituents are split by with the budget cuts within the local authorities as to whether this is a good idea now to take this forward but of course these things are arranged way in advance and you can't necessarily predict what's going to happen in the future in terms of cuts. Anyway, just lastly if that's okay I just wondered if you could give me an overview of what your partners within the sexual development their responsibilities are for example arts and business Scotland and creative carbon Scotland culture enterprise office culture republic and the federation of Scottish theatres we haven't heard anything from those groups within the committee and I just wondered if you'd be able to give us an overview of what they do considering that they do support making financial decisions. So they're all very different so I would say if you go through that list Federation of Scottish theatres is a membership organisation for theatre and dance and provides support and for that particular sector so it's very specific creative carbon Scotland is effectively the organisation that works with us to encourage more consideration in relation to carbon footprint so we work with creative carbon Scotland in a very strategic way to ensure that all of the organisations that we fund take environmental concerns into account culture republic is an audience development agency which was set up for that purpose and applied to us for funding to be able to deliver a service arts and business provides a range of support for the broader creative sectors and exists to unlock private sector investment and provide training and development for individuals and organisations to be able to drive that and now I'm going to have to remember the last one did you say culture republic yes arts and business Scotland you've done that one culture enterprise office thank you very much cultural enterprise office was set up through in fact an identification by Scottish enterprise that the sort of business services that the cultural sectors require are different to the services that the enterprise would provide in relation to driving high gross and so cultural enterprise office was set up in order to be able to provide that service just one quick one how are these organisations scrutinised? we have a funding relationship with all of our organisations we would have the ability to be able to sit on as advisors on board meetings we have one to one relationship through relationship management and we advocate to those organisations and we conduct annual reviews where we'll formally sit down and ask organisations to account for the work that they do we also require organisations to complete an annual statistical survey where we gather data relating to the outcomes that they've set for themselves and measure whether or not they're successful or not in achieving those thank you very much a couple of supplementaries to Rachel Hamlin's line of questioning good morning you mentioned a few moments ago just in terms of some of the localities and are there any parts of the country where you feel as if you could be doing with more applications or there could be more output in terms of performances and cultural activity so in the annual review submission that we've now published and has been sent to the committee you'll see the latest analysis in section 3 of that which is around place and that gives you a sense local authority by local authority of the numbers of applications and the numbers of awards that are made what you'll be able to identify is that there are in that list some local authorities and if you track it over a number of years where we do need to be continue to be proactive to build that capacity that you mentioned earlier on and that's my reference to the place partnerships which are absolutely about targeting those areas, those local authority areas where we recognise there's a need to work more proactively with them there are on-going review and analysis of that data I think at this point in time there are some local authority areas particularly around the larger cities where we're proactive with but particularly also those in rural and remote areas in the north of Scotland and indeed in the south of Scotland where we need to continue to be proactively engaged to keep building that capacity open up that dialogue more fulsomly in order to generate the ideas it's not just about the number of applications which in some instances is quite low it's about the quality of those submissions because in a competitive environment of the the kind that you can see in the statistics where we're funding roughly one in three applications we want to make sure that we get those high quality ambition ideas coming through too so we're proactively engaged in that on a more local level and I would add to that that I've observed when I joined the organisation that we're building on historic practice of investing in the central belt and you'll see when you look at our budgets that a significant amount of our funding goes into Glasgow and Edinburgh in order to reach out we've got two choices we can either find new forms of funding to be able to really extend what we do which we know there's a demand for or we can disrupt and change the way we fund which obviously doesn't go down well in terms of the really important organisations that have been built up in the central belt so we've got a real conundrum to deal with we've rebalanced and extended reach a wee bit over the past three, four years and we're committed to continuing to do that but the reality is if we're really going to unlock the full potential of Scotland's creative endeavour we're going to have to find a way of injecting new resources in order to be able to do that the rewards are great we've seen the increase in terms of GBA we've seen the increase in terms of jobs particularly across Scotland who have been rejuvenated through creative and cultural endeavour and you only got to walk along the high street of places like Aberfeldy where you can see almost every other commercial enterprise on the high street it relates to some form of creativity in one way or another but if we're really going to be serious about that we're going to have to find a way and in all of its forms in order to be able to really generate the step changes that I think Scotland could achieve and I honestly think that we've got the talent base we've got the ideas we've got the ambition we just need to find a way of really giving life to all of that in a really dynamic way Thank you very much, Jackson Conlaw Yes, you actually mentioned in fact that you made reference to go to the areas of members of the committee I noticed therefore that the second least successful area in Scotland is Richard Lochhead's and the third least successful area is my own so we the committee hundreds are doing well on that basis what I want to be assured of because I have obviously representations from disappointed groups that the local authority spread is an outcome and not a design because obviously in the way it's presented there is an implication or there is an inference that can be drawn by some that there is a quota at play and that there is a design in terms of an assessment of the relative merits of particular areas as to what might be a desired outcome and so I would want to be assured to understand that this table is an outcome and certainly was not a design in terms of the assessment of the awards that were actually being placed and also that I wouldn't if I was to look back over other years identify a parallel We can give you absolute assurance that it's not by design there are two sides to this one is the application that comes in as driven by the applicants from individual local areas and that goes into a competitive process in the round but our analysis of that enables us to make proactive decisions around that when we understand that analysis but the other side of it is the work that we do proactively when we recognise these things like place partnerships where we're absolutely going in in a very targeted way to have a resource in that local area in order to have a dialogue open up the ideas explain what the opportunities and options are and unlock those partnerships in that local sense that help generate confidence and capacity in a local area that overall will drive it up so it's a combination of what comes in naturally into a competitive process that will absolutely lift up the opportunities to those local communities and it's worth also recognising the work of the regular funded organisations they work right across the whole of Scotland and indeed internationally but also those targeted programmes around youth music initiative for example or cash back for creativity all these national programmes are very much looking at how intervention across the geography of Scotland can be proactive not just reactive in terms of what naturally comes from a local area okay, thank you for that assurance thank you very much thank you very much a few of the areas that I wanted to touch on today have already been covered by the previous questions that you've had because I was really just concerned about I really wanted to know a bit more about your working relationship with local authorities because I do think that obviously there's a pressure on everyone's budgets and the culture in that can be an area of council budgets that when it comes to it and if decisions hard decisions need to be made that can be an area which sees which can bear the brunt of some of those cuts so really just to hear a bit more about like I say your working relationship with local authorities and how you really work together in terms of what they're trying to do I mean I know that a lot of councils look at other models now transferring a lot of their culture organisations rather than being directly managed by the council but just be interested to hear a bit more about that so we're working with local authorities in different ways we have a team a place team whose remit is to work into all 32 local authority areas and we'll monitor what we're delivering in each of those areas and maintain a dashboard if you like of data in order to be able to ensure that we can invest wisely I chair Scotland's creative industries partnership which includes representation from local authorities in the mix and we will we've been working with local authorities through the city deals we work with local authorities in terms of that they are partners in terms of investment into regularly funded organisations and we also work strategically with local authorities through place working where we will work with a local authority and genuinely identify local need I think our place partnership working is really interesting because it's a ground up process so it's very much about us working with a local authority to identify what the strategic needs are from a community perspective and then to allocate resource in accordance with what communities own ambitions are so we've got many different 12, 13 different place partnerships where you can see that communities in different parts of Scotland have come together to be able to identify how they can deliver cultural endeavour in different ways I have relationships with chief executives in many local authorities and so we've got an open line if we want to have a discussion about how to find new opportunities to be able to embed creativity not just in terms of budgets but also in terms of policy into local authority work and not just increasingly we're seeing a move to see culture not just being seen as a box far away from everything else but culture is something that's central that provides cultural and social and economic value and it's where it sits in policy both in the cultural and leisure space but increasingly in the education and health economic development parts of local authorities in really tangible ways That leads nicely to the next point that I was going to raise and it's probably not a budget related question but it was really about the education element too because I know when we met a couple of weeks ago unfortunately we didn't get a chance to go into much of the detail in that but in the session that we had afterwards that's where I had some really interesting conversations with some of the other people that were there in the room that day some young film producers people from on sorts of backgrounds and it was interesting hearing about the different routes that people had found into the careers that they now find themselves in and it was really just to hear a bit more about your work with education because I think it's especially with the plans for the new screen unit and obviously all the huge variety of roles that are available in film and screen and it's how we actually make people more aware of all the full range of possibilities that there are there and how we can start to filter that through in education if it's not happening already to really highlight that to people and show them what's available So we work with Education Scotland and we have a partnership agreement we have a creative learning plan which has focused on using creativity to generate skills to drive employability One of the things that I'm interested in anecdotally, I've had a lot of feedback that schools are starting to use the new attainment fund to deliver creative activity in order to increase attainment in those schools that benefit from that I'm really interested in mapping that to see what the outcomes of that work have been because that gives us a good basis for what we should look at amplifying in the future We have a creative learning team at Creative Scotland who are involved in fact at a leadership level on a global basis So we're involved in many networks drawing on learning and good practice in other places which we bring into the practice that we're delivering in Scotland So we welcome the curriculum for excellence The expressive arts are a really core component of what young people benefit from in Scotland What we want to do is to work with schools to be able to help skill up a wider workforce in terms of teacher practice in order to be able to deliver against that in a proactive way So all of those things are part of our thinking in relation to the education space We know that engaging in creativity and cultural practice opens curiosity It enables young people to be able to see beyond their life experience into understanding what their wider opportunities might be It increases confidence There are many things that, as you all know culture and creativity offer to young people We see our job as being the broker that brings together creative practitioners and talent that sits in terms of filmmakers or in artists in Scotland with teachers and schools I think it's really important that we do that Absolutely, I completely agree with you It was just so interesting having those conversations hearing about the different routes and how people managed to find themselves where they are now I do hope that, in rural authorities children need to be exposed to that and know the opportunities that are going to be available You mentioned your opening statement about the meeting that you have on 18 January to finalise the decisions about the regular funding Are you able to give us any sort of idea, though, today of what sort of percentage of the organisations that have applied for regular funding will be successful in that or has that decision just to be made? No All of the applicants have applied for different amounts of money so it would be wrong of us to give you a percentage at this stage What we will be doing is taking our recommendations as they stand at the moment They're going into analysis now They're going into being evaluated by our research team who are looking at them in the context of geography in the context of art form and we'll take all of that data into play in relation to making our final recommendations after Christmas which will go into our board papers which will be considered on 18 January It would be inappropriate to give you a percentage figure at this stage What would that have been last year? Are you able to give us the figures for that? We had a greater volume of applications last year a significantly greater volume of applications last year than we received this year so it was the difference more last year than this year Mike, will you still have those numbers in the next question? We were talking about this year and last year just to be absolutely clear the last round was 2015-18 so it ends on 31 March The analysis of that is painted on the website but we'd be happy to provide a further briefing on that if the committee would find it welcome that we're happy to do that for you but you can see that analysis but as Janet said we're going through due process at the moment and that will conclude in January and there's no predetermined outcome on that it's again an application-based process with the application of specialist expertise and strategic judgment applied to that to determine the final outcome Thank you Richard Lochhead In terms of your comments you can help different parts of Scotland to build capacity so they can apply more and be more successful in light of Jackson Carlaw's comments about certain local authorities What does that actually mean in practice? I was looking at your table again and of the £41 million that's got local authorities £29 million roughly has gone to Glasgow and Edinburgh which is quite a big chunk and I expect the other £46 million or £47 million not local authorities I suspect quite a lot of that has gone to Edinburgh and Glasgow as well so what's your plans to address that? So I think we recognise that there's a kind of concentration, creative concentration in some of the major cities that lies behind some of that but it does reinforce the need for us to understand the wider geography of Scotland and make sure that we have those opportunities clear and available and that's where we're proactive in terms of staff out and about in those local authority areas engaging with the key partners but also the individuals because what you'll also see in the breakdown of the awards is that roughly a quarter of all funding awards goes to individual artists and three quarters to organisations although we should recognise that organisations too support that of course but key to this I think is understanding that picture but being proactive we have limited staff capacity as you might understand so it's about how we can make our staff engagement and interventions as effective as possible and that comes in a variety of different forms but I think it's also about not just how we are able to go out but actually how people from across the geography of Scotland we have a great enquiry service that people engage with all of the time as well as being out and about engaging on an individual basis but also taking part in different fora so there are often funding forums that a range of funding partners get together to deliver in the local areas but also the strategic funding interventions that we have like the place partnerships that we've mentioned a few times already and there's also a range of mechanisms in a very practical sense That's helpful just I think the first time we took evidence from you as a new committee this issue came up as well so you're still saying that there's still an issue to be addressed so there's a range of we can maybe get more details in your course of how you can inject some urgency into that because some local authorities of course have scrapped their arts budgets happen to the ones on your table who are getting some of the lowest amount of money through Creative Scotland so it's like a double whammy for those particular local authorities so perhaps these areas are losing out compared to the rest of Scotland and I just wonder in terms of Edinburgh there is an on-going debate about Edinburgh benefiting greatly from arts and culture understandably it's our capital and it's an amazing richness of culture in all the festivals but there is a debate over the tourism tax and have you given any thought to whether that would be a good or bad thing in terms of a tourism tax which would help to take off some of the burden of national agencies having to fund arts and culture in Edinburgh Before we answer the tourism tax can I just talk a wee bit more about the point that you're making I think the local authority analysis is only one lens to view things I think we recognise that it's forever a challenge to make sure that we are able to work across the geography of Scotland that's a combination of factors but including things like the local authority's own individual commitment to culture it's not statutory we've got a very strong creative learning network of local government officials across Scotland but it's patchy in terms of specialist cultural officers within local authorities which makes it harder to engage at a local level sometimes but absolutely that's why things like the place partnership approach which is about not just engaging with local authorities but actually the key active organisations and individuals in different areas comes to the fore because actually the energy is what we tap into and we work with and we build capacity around including with a financial resource I think it's forever going to be a challenge to make sure that we're able to respond to all of that and be as proactive as we can but we do recognise absolutely that it is a challenge that we need to continue to meet we will be as proactive as we are but we're working at a very local level as best we can right across the geography of Scotland beyond those cities but the tax question tourism tax question I would just add something else in relation to reach without defending the position in relation to investment in the central belt which is historic and is based on many building based organisations in many instances which provide really exciting programmes for the people of Scotland but also people visiting Scotland who will often enter Scotland through the central belt tourism for example is now tourism in Scotland is about 33% of it if you look at visit Scotland's figures is now driven by cultural and heritage which is quite an incredible figure it's higher than the rest of the UK and we need those anchor organisations to bring that tourism into play but the other point I'd make is that digital has transformed access to organisations in the central belt we've already started to see some of the work of organisations in the central belt being made available much more widely a recent example of that isn't an organisation that we directly fund but Scottish Ballet the right of spring is now on the BBC's space platform and anybody can see it anywhere and that's one way of ensuring that that work is able to be enjoyed by people in different places, it's not the same as a live experience I completely accept that on the tax point we welcome any initiative that can be brought into play in relation to tax so clearly the culture and creative sectors have benefited from tax credits on a UK level which has made a real difference to people's budgets in terms of freeing up resource we are encouraging and our interim chair Ben Thompson has written to the secretary of state UK secretary of state in regard to lottery in regard to encouraging freeing up the regulatory environment in terms of enabling Camelot who runs the UK national lottery to be able to compete on equal terms in relation to the other commercial lotteries that have been set up recently it's not a level playing field at the moment and that creates challenges in terms of lottery income all round for UK lottery distributors which include us there are examples in other countries of planning gain which enable cultural regeneration to be driven more rapidly in towns and cities we're really interested in that and of course other tax initiatives come into play the particular tax in terms of tourist tax is obviously contentious different people have different views and I think our view is that that needs to play out and decisions need to be made in relation to whether or not that is something that the cultural sector in Scotland will be able to benefit from or not Jackson Carlaw just a quick follow up on the issue of place partnerships I see that there are 13 of them operating in 2016 2017 I've been interested to know how many of them were initiated in the course of that year how many new place partnerships began last year and how is a place partnership initiated I can see from the structure around what it seeks to achieve that it is a mechanism which might assist but where does the initiative to establish identify and progress a place partnership come from and as I say of the 13 how many of them were new in the most recent year I'd need to go and check the answer to the question about how many were initiated in that year and we'll get that answer to you after the committee in terms of how they are initiated it comes in a variety of ways but what we've sought to do is to now put structure around it because as people have seen and recognised that they can be quite successful in being able to galvanise local sense of energy and bring resource and so on around it to deliver change and strategic improvement what we're looking at is a kind of framework that enables to be a combination of us understanding the picture from our data that we publish but also where there is interest from across Scotland those individual local authorities making an approach to us or individuals or organisations within those local authorities making an approach to us to open up the dialogue then to establish whether there is an opportunity for a place partnership or not so there is a... The chicken of the egg is it the local authority and people within a community coming to you or is it you looking to build something in a community? It comes both ways and it's varied over the course of those 13 that they've come to the fore what we're seeking to do now is to make that structure of how it happens and how it comes about and which ones we then will on a time limited basis actively engage with through a place partnership to make that structure much clearer so that there's a process by which it can come to be I can now feel Gary Cameron who leads our place work who's probably watching this wanting to come in he is a new appointment he's come to us from Aberdeen Council he is stimulating a different way of thinking in terms of how we approach place partnership working and so we are as Ian says reviewing how we approach that our current place partnerships are mainly based on historic working so what we need to do now is take stock really understand what's worked what's worked and what hasn't and identify and look at how we're going to move forward so we're entering into a period of strategy review as you would expect us to do our 10 year plan is now nearly 4 years old and we're moving into the middle part of that so we're taking stock of all of the outcomes that we've achieved over the past period of how we position ourselves into the future one of the interesting things that Gary has done is he's brought all of the place partnerships together which is the first time that we've done that and that was a very dynamic meeting there was a lot of pan local authority learning that came out of it and what we want to do of course is to record that and make that available more widely for local authorities to be able to utilise in terms of the lessons learned from this kind of ground up community development through culture which I think could be a value in a much broader forum so Gary is very proactive in wanting to make sure that we join up the dots across all of those place partnerships in a proactive way in the future Thank you very much Just to follow Mary Gougeon's point around young people the cultural sector has got quite a significant role next year in marking the year of young people in Scotland and what the administration process has been for funding awarded to projects and events that are directly related to that year Has it gone through the normal grant funding processes or have there been separate streams for the years events? So it's a combination of both and we will, if you would like us to give you a more detailed report in relation to what we're doing in relation to year of young people we can certainly do that from a project which effectively enables organisations to have a young person as part of their workforce for a year which we've just funded, I think we've put about 80,000 into that which will benefit young people and organisations in terms of refreshing their thinking to the project which is being led by a young woman who is from Orkney called Amy Irvine and she's developing a leadership programme so she is tasked with developing a project which will bring together young people from across the world I'm mentoring her directly in the framing of that and she's just begun, she's been with us for just over a month and she's pulling together a partnership around that project, it's linked into the culture summit which is taking place in the Parliament next year and she will be sharing the stories of both young people from Scotland but importantly young people from Scotland in dialogue with young people from across the world in that forum I'd be more than happy to follow that up once we receive the report, thank you Thank you very much Rachel, I think you had a quick question Quick question, because I think I really be addressing the potential problem that the national lottery fall in funding may have caused and we received a number of letters and so did the Scottish Government the MSPs received letters of concern from culture bodies you also mentioned about the loophole where there's a distinction between betting and the national lottery clearly the additionality will fund projects that we currently can't so we have perhaps, I have a number of questions how do you feel that you can further strengthen the connection between the national lottery and culture bodies and creative Scotland in order to absolutely define that there is a need for national lottery funding and people are absolutely aware of that and secondly I wondered what you might recommend if you were speaking in the future about allaying the fears of the culture bodies when we're looking at an increase in the budget which will potentially ameliorate the loss in national lottery funding moving forward Do you want to state that? Yeah, and Janet can add so two parts to your question one of the things that we're very proactive with the other lottery distributors and Camelot indeed is the need to really paint the picture of what the national lottery is supporting currently and make those connections in a very visible tangible way so we have funding contracts that are bespoke to national lottery funded activity that require the brand alongside Creative Scotland to be applied but that only goes so far so things like our annual review publication enable us to paint the picture using our website as well about making visible where national lottery support is showing up because there's a very clear correlation in the analysis which Camelot and the distributors are aware of between ticket sales and a brand positivity where people see and associate a very local level where they can see the benefits of national lottery showing up so it's really important that we're all proactive across the sector not just Creative Scotland but all those individuals and organisations that we support understand the source of funding if it is national lottery or indeed grant and aid that they are able to paint that picture for people and we can elevate that through the channels that we've got and that's a key aspect of it and we need to keep working harder on that I think the other and it's connected to the second point I think again it's work with Camelot and the distributors including DCMess and so on about the level playing field that's needed for the national lottery in marketing sense to ensure that the ticket sales which drive the income and flows through to the good causes are is a level playing field because at the moment it's not what we've got is a very clear sense of how the national lottery is regulated in comparison to other society lotteys which are not so regulated and it's not such a level playing field so I think again there's something about us working as distributors with Camelot and the DCMess to look at that regulatory framework alongside what it might do to unlock marketing budgets to then profile and lift up the work of the national lottery in a positive sense to generate the ticket sales that flow back into the good causes of which we are one we get one point, so it's formula based we get 1.78% of the overall national lottery good cause expenditure I think just going back to the very start of the session the Scottish Government budget settlement is very welcome in helping to address that volatility it's always been subject to ticket sales of course so always fluctuates in terms of national lottery income but it's been more volatile in recent years which has led us to the position that we see but there is very proactive work across the distributor family with Camelot to try and make sure that that's addressed but it will take time for that to flow through Scottish Government settlement to enable us to get a more confident planning horizon over that three year period which we recognise is absolutely exceptional in the current climate of public finance to give us that planning confidence on regular funding but we'll continue to work hard with recipients and distributors and Camelot to make sure that that national lottery picture is painted very much and I'd like to thank Ian Monroe for giving evidence this morning I think we've been able to consider quite a range of the issues in front of Creative Scotland and we will hear shortly from the Cabinet Secretary so we'll now suspend the meeting briefly to allow a change of role witnesses, thank you very much we'll take evidence on the Scottish Government's draft budget from the Cabinet Secretary Fiona Hyslop for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs and I welcome the Cabinet Secretary to the meeting along with her officials, David Sears the Head of Sponsorship and Funding Team Cultural and Historic Environment Division and Karen Watt the Director of External Affairs so welcome to the committee and Cabinet Secretary I believe you'd like to say a few opening of the mark Yes, thank you very much just a very short opening statement I consider the draft budget for 2018-19 to have delivered a very good outcome for the portfolio particularly for culture and external affairs we've worked hard over a number of months to deliver this demonstrating the value of the portfolio's work and the benefits it delivers right across the priorities of the Government I'd like to just highlight a few points from the draft budget firstly I was very pleased to be able to not only give Creative Scotland a positive outcome on its core grant and aid that being a small increase to cover staff pay awards but I was also able to deliver an additional £6.6 million to allow Creative Scotland to maintain its regular funding programme budget level so that Creative Scotland's decisions and funding are based on the merits of individual organisations rather than any serious restriction on resources available I was also pleased to be able to deliver the programme for Government commitment to invest a further £10 million for investment in screen bringing public spending to £20 million and finally on the arts budget as we go into the year of young people of 2018 I was pleased to be able to protect the £9 million for the Youth Music Initiative and meet the commitment to increase funding for Systema Scotland secondly I've been able to expand the scope of our external affairs work with funding for additional staffing in Brussels and to develop a new hub in Paris both of which will be particularly important as Brexit unfolds we'll also enhance our presence in Canada and I've also managed to maintain the £10 million funding for international development and our new £1 million humanitarian aid fund tackling poverty and inequality and providing immediate and effective assistance to disaster, disease and conflict in some of the world's poorest countries thirdly Historic Environment Scotland continues to draw in huge numbers of tourists and visitors and has forecast further growth in its income levels for 2018-19 this has allowed Historic Environment Scotland to reduce its reliance on Scottish Government funding and deploy valuable resource elsewhere in the portfolio while at the same time Historic Environment Scotland will see a significant increase in its spending power from the increased income and finally Visit Scotland will see its capital budget almost could ripple from £600,000 to £2.25 million for investment in modernising key visitor information centres developing partnership arrangements and improving digital and online information provision for investment in the Scotland Is Now project which will see the building of a new joint digital infrastructure to act as a shop window for Scotland combining the marketing activities of Visit Scotland, Scottish Enterprise SDI and Scottish Government and so extend the reach and impact of existing operational marketing budgets so I hope you agree this is a positive budget settlement for the portfolio particularly at a time when public funding is under a severe pressure but I'm very happy to answer any questions that you might have and we'll perhaps approach the questions broadly in the order in which you've approached the statement and start perhaps with the questions on the cultural aspects of your brief I wonder, you'll be aware cabinet secretary of the campaign the correspondence that members of this committee and I'm no doubt yourself and others received from many organisations in the cultural field concerned about the prospect of a loss of funding and clearly as you've indicated saw to address that given the importance of that funding for those organisations and the steps you've taken this year what assurance can you give for future years as to the way in which the Government will approach that core funding for key creative organisations? Well I think the budget settlement is a strong statement by the Scottish Government in our belief in culture in the life of Scotland the issues and concerns that have particularly arisen in recent times have been related to the changes in the levels of lottery funding that Creative Scotland have received and 40 per cent of their funding comes from lottery funding deregulation of the UK lottery has had an impact and we've seen reducing amounts which has affected not just this portfolio but other areas like sport etc as well I contacted initially the UK Government back in March so this is not a new issue this is something that we've been trying to address for some time to try and see if there was some way of mitigation from the UK Government because of the decisions about the deregulation etc there have been measures taken by the UK Government they've communicated to us what they might be but there's no outcome as to whether that will result in increased income from the lottery that is completely independent from the Scottish Government but it clearly has a major impact on the cultural life of Scotland so in answer to your question what are we doing to help going forward it's the protection of the Creative Scotland's core budget for three years provides stability for them in making their decisions as they may explain their regular funding cycle which they're about to embark on in relation to lottery loss of income with identified funding which I've managed to secure for this year but also going forward for the next three years shouldn't be required to ensure that we can provide that stability so the decisions that will be made by Creative Scotland about which organisations receive regular funding will purely be made on the merits of their application and the artistic decisions that are made independently by Creative Scotland so I've provided stability and that's what I've tried to do position as minister is because actually part of this is about having confidence in the sector and what people say about Scotland is that we have a confident cultural sector and I want that to thrive so I think I've managed to provide that stability should the budget of course proceed and be supported by members of parliament when it comes to the final decisions an important part of that creativity is on the in the area of film and screen and you've clearly made taking the steps that you've described around that can you indicate how much or to what extent funding for the screen unit is coming into your budget from for example the enterprise agencies in order to support and sustain that work? A collective Scottish Government budget that has provided the £10 million additional that is going into the screen unit that is currently sitting in the other arts line of the budget that is referred to Creative Scotland that is a major investment I've explained to the committee in my last appearance that we would expect the blueprint to be ready by the end of the calendar year which it is and that's been circulated I circulated that to the committee and in relation to the operation of that we expect that then to be up and running in time for the financial year so that we can start to spend the £10 million that has been other funding for example the production growth fund the £1.75 million from last year has been very successful so that will be up and running we expect if you've read the screen blueprint that other agencies will still carry out some of their functions I think that's very important that the lead absolutely is with Creative Scotland and they'll be recruiting very high level very impactful individuals who can help drive this forward but in relation for example they'll still carry out some of the functions that they have in relation to how company development Scottish Development Scottish Skills Development Scotland will still provide funding in relation to their activities there but the driver and in terms of the you've seen the blueprint that will be led from Creative Scotland so Timon it's not if you're asking me is that the beyond end of the funding no it's not because we've still got the additional support that's been set out in the blueprint you'll be aware cabinet secretary members of the committee met with Creative Scotland two weeks ago to address the issue of the blueprint but it was not made available to us at the time we perhaps expected it to be two weeks ago today and so we did ask Creative Scotland this morning for the reasons for that and they said that they were not in a position to publish that document two weeks ago which was surprising at the time and they explained the partnership process they'd followed in developing the document but it appeared that the committee was not included in that consultation at the last minute was there any reason for the delay in making that available? No I met with Creative Scotland on 7 November we discussed the blueprint I was broadly content I had some issues that had to be addressed the blueprint for me to approve I finally received the blueprint to approve probably must have been at the Wednesday evening before your visit to Creative Scotland I was at the UK Government China Government people to people event on the Thursday I wrote to you on the Friday having received it on the Wednesday evening approved the final blueprint sent it to the committee as I agreed to do a predecessor on the Friday and I think it was published for general awareness on the Monday so the blueprint is there it's been well received a Scottish screen leadership group which I think you've taken evidence from have also been consulted to ensure that it met their requirements I think it's in a very good place and we now have the funding should the budget be approved to be able to make sure that we can then recruit and ensure that we can take this very exciting next stage Mary Goucham I'd just like to go on you mentioned in your opening statement about historic environment Scotland a really successful year with more visitors and additional income and it was really just to see about that additional income that historic environment Scotland have received is that something that remains with them or is that used more broadly across the portfolio the historic environment Scotland obviously look after the properties and care on behalf of Scottish ministers and every year when we're agreeing what their budget will be we'll discuss with them what their requirements are, what their spend is what their income is likely to be and to make an agreement with them as to how much of that income can be retained for reinvestment back into the historic environment and how much can be released to the portfolio so that we can then help support the wider portfolio interests that are required in relation to what that means this year it means that they will be in terms of an increase in their expenditure they will have an increase in their income available to spend they need to be able to spend more because they have more visitors more visitors obviously means that they have to have more provision so basic facilities etc so we're in a very comfortable place with historic environment Scotland they're comfortable with the resource they have available to them it's an increased spend that they've had previously and also very importantly in something that they very much appreciate for the first time ever last year I managed to achieve a capital investment of £5.6 million that's actually increased so I managed to not only maintain that for a second year but also increase that because I think it's really important that we reinvest back in our historic environment we have big challenges whether it's climate change other areas that are fruitful can have an impact so reinvesting in our state is very very important and I'm very pleased with the work of historic environment Scotland in that regard thank you just further to that then have there been any discussions with them about how the I suppose more specifically they could use those funds to improve visitor experience in terms of increasing and improving accessibility to some of the visitor attractions as well and in terms of addressing the years in building repairs absolutely accessibility is something that we all want to see improve for all our facilities but of course castles and particularly some of the very historic castles we have it's very challenging on what can be done but they're very conscious of trying to make improvements where they can they've carried out a very comprehensive asset management exercise which I've been very impressed with and they are looking at how they can systematically work through the repairs and the requirements that they have a lot of it is accessibility is also how can you use new technologies to help people understand so for example when I visited Calaverick castle back in the summer some really interesting work they're going to be doing there using digital work to help enhance that facility again part of our commitment to the south of Scotland in particular but again that helps to enhance the experience and also for families to help people get in the habit of visiting when they're with young family members and realising that there actually are things that young people can do enjoy but also be able to use digital as well so they really are cutting edge in so many different ways whether it's in digital, whether it's in conservation I think we should be very proud of the work that they do and I'm very pleased with the investments they have and I'm delighted that they can help them reinvest back into it there's always going to be challenges and what property is dealt with when etc but we have to rely on their judgement but the other important part is we're also investing in the skills for this so our investment as a Government was a period where we had 30 modern apprentices in traditional building skills really important to make sure we've got the skill base and also you'll know that the engine shed has been open this year I'm not sure if the committee's had a visit to the engine shed but I would strongly recommend if you could because it is very much an investment in supporting an understanding and awareness of the importance of traditional building skills for Scotland a very good educational resource but also it works with the sector whether it's with the architecture sector but also with the building trades themselves so it's a very good example of our investment in skills and in the historic environment sector and I'm delighted it opened this year and I would strongly recommend that you do Absolutely, that was good. I'm going to be my next point because that was something we raised with Historic Environment Scotland when they came to the committee was about the traditional skills and what was being done there Have heritage environment raised any concerns with you about potential deductions from the heritage or its lottery fund? I know that it's something my home town in particular has been a big beneficiary of that fund in particular and it has had a big impact and I know lots of other places across Scotland but have you had those discussions with them? Excuse me Unlike Creative Scotland Historic Environment Scotland don't administer lottery funding but obviously within the heritage sector there's complementarity and quite often you'll see different projects come to fruition because they have a package of investments some of it comes from Historic Environment Scotland or heritage lottery etc although there's heritage lottery Scotland to deal with funding less than £5 million I understand and the majority of the large-scale investment is on a UK-wide basis they too obviously have concerns about the impact of reduced lottery income to their effects it's slightly different from Creative Scotland and as you will have heard the lottery funding for Creative Scotland tends to be for individuals and organisations and people delivering whereas a lot of the heritage lottery funding is for actual capital works and they can obviously schedule them I understand that a heritage lottery fund UK have made a publication themselves about what they expect from lottery and they're actually downgrading their funding for £18.19 down from £300 million to about £190 million for £18.19 I anticipate the reduction could have an impact going forward what they don't want to obviously I would imagine do is to have to claw back grants that they've already made so they're having to make readjustments so they'll be almost like a pause while we're re-aligning that will have an impact because that means that there's less capital there for very important works so they're breakin in other places so that will have an impact but we obviously try and work on a heritage lottery fund we can't again, they're independent we can't direct them in any shape or form but some of the successes we've had in the past as well we've been able to coalesce or align funding from Government from Historic Environment Scotland to a heritage lottery so if you have an interest in that I can't speak for heritage lottery funds so the committee may want to contact them directly themselves Thank you very much For a moment obviously the bread and butter of that industry in Scotland is domestic but as Janet Archer mentioned in the previous session there's a significant role for international big budget projects outlaw king was just a good recent example in answer to a written question that I lodged recently it was entirely unclear if the Scottish Government's North American office played any role in supporting the industry I mean given the geographical nature of that international industry you'd expect a high level of interest in Scotland from being able to attract investment from America would you be able to clarify what role the Washington DC office plays in supporting the screen sector Well for example when I've visited the US in the past the North American office supported me when I was in Hollywood and I met with Lionsgate and Warner Brothers and we were discussing specifically issues around investment at that time I think it was the King Arthur film in particular I discussed with Warner the and indeed STI there's also the aspect of inward investment so some of those areas are STI STI have an interest in as well so that's a very practical example of how that's happened in the past I should say that the written answer was not from yourself that's part of my confusion I was expecting the answer to that to come from yourself and I knew that there would be more useful examples there but turned to the... Maybe I should have answered the question didn't I? I don't think it was not your fault at all Turning to the year of young people would you be able to explain a little bit how the budget for that is being allocated obviously for us to be able to effectively scrutinise it it's somewhat challenging because naturally it's distributed across a number of streams would you be able to outline that a little bit? I think that it's very important that everybody contributes to the year of young people it's not just seen by one minister or one portfolio obviously in terms of the themed years I've had responsibility across all the themed years being the year of history heritage archaeology and there's always budgets that are available for events related to the year of young people so the overall budget is about £3.4 million we had a debate obviously in the Parliament just the other day a lot of that will be about events will be run by major events that would help support that but also there'll be students particularly in relation to community activity and there's a lot of volunteer very important work particularly is what young people want to get engaged with the themes that they're engaged with with inequalities and some of the issues that are involved there I think what might be helpful to the committee, I'm quite happy to do this I think it'll be helpful for the rest of Parliament as well is to try and maybe bring together all that in one place so that people can see what's being spent where from the different portfolios but I wouldn't just limit your thinking to think oh well it's got to be a budget line and it's got a budget for it to be spent so I know in my own portfolio there's a lot of work happening with our national galleries, our collections national theatre of Scotland so although it wouldn't appear as necessarily in a budget line saying year of young people everybody's been gearing up to this so the actual impact of spend should be really quite critical but I do think that for the purposes of understanding what's there I'll work with Marie Todd as the lead minister for the year of young people whether we can give a better understanding of what's being spent where but it's being well resorted right across government and in different portfolios and I'm quite keen to write through the year show how different portfolios are contributing whether it's justice, whether it's health because if this year's to be as impactful as we want it to be this has got to be something that's just changing how we do things I'm making it mainstream that young people have got a central role so we raise the profile of what they're doing so I'll find a useful way maybe if we can talk to your clerk as to what we're the best way of doing that and maybe with the education and young people committee as well because how we best might present that to both those committees but to MSPs more widely I think that would be very welcome just to drill down to one specific area that's not for the year of young people very timely on the youth experience fund evidence that we've taken as a committee previously which I raised with you last time you were here around that fund it's very welcome but the evidence from the sector seemed to be that they felt directing it towards secondary schools may prove more beneficial than primary because they didn't have as much of a challenge attracting primary schools into their venues has the Government done any further work on that had any further discussion with the sector I listened to what you said and also to the evidence that's being provided I'm going to consider how we best carry that that fund out I think during the experience of the year of young people we'll have a better idea about what works and what has impact and also if I'm if I hope what I hope will be that some of the things that come forward as part of the year of young people may end up being mainstreamed as regular activity by different organisations about how they help facilitate access by young people to different experiences so I think it's worth taking stock about where we stand during the year of young people to see what has an impact and then ensuring that the youth experience fund has maximum leverage so it's not just displacing something it's actually adding value to new experience and I think the key issue when it comes back time and time again it's transport there's a lot of opportunities for young people and a lot of free ticketing and subsidised ticketing and all the rest of it but the big issue if we're really going to tackle some of the issues that we can access culture or indeed other experiences rather than other things a lot of it can come down to transport so I think finding an innovative way to try and tackle that to me would be one of the legacies from this if we can thank you one more question on culture from Rachel Hamilton morning cabinet secretary the draft budget mentions the culture strategy I just wondered if you were going to allocate any additional resources to take this forward and when it might be published and how it came about the culture strategy is something that's developed over some time where people realise that as a country it would be very helpful if we had a statement as to the importance of culture what it means right across the area Creative Scotland was obviously some responsibility for some aspects and lead for culture but for example our national performing companies or others are independent of that process we've had a quite comprehensive set of engagement I've taken part in numerous and we've had about nine ten public sessions on the culture strategy as well as very bespoke other sessions where people are sharing their views we've now come to an end of the first session of engaging with people we're now bringing something forward that we can then consult on I want this to be developed by Scotland this is not our state view of culture that's not what it is so therefore the speed at which it is developed will be with the sector itself I think with the statement that's come through from the budget I think people will have more confidence as well that they can be planning for a stable future and be ambitious about what they want from culture in terms of resourcing and budgeting there isn't a budget line that says culture strategy as if there's going to be some additional resource coming with the culture strategy settlement for people then to identify what matters to Scotland in terms of prioritising, is it young people is it access, is it geography is it traditional, is it modern people can have a view as to what matters to them and that can help shape and form the type of distribution that we can have in the future but that's it, it's a collective process so I'm not predetermining it I think it would be wrong to predetermine it but there isn't a specific line that you can point to saying that culture strategy will somehow leverage an extra resource, what it might do however is if we can set it out in a very clear and comprehensive way and a clear steering and strategic direction it can help ensure that the contribution that culture makes for whether it's health whether it's injustice, whether it's in other areas you can see the benefit of all that not all culture spend sits in my portfolio so for example cashback for creativity which has had a big impact is not something that we benefit from but it's something that's obviously coming out of the justice provision so I think that's one of the big things that we can get from the culture strategy is a clear articulation of how the impact of culture reaches all areas, not just what will be the traditional sector for the responsibility Okay, do you want me to move on convener? Okay, I'll ask my next question so moving on to our question I have about are you able to expand the detail of the rural infrastructure rural tourism infrastructure fund that is mentioned in the budget please To accent, yes I'm delighted that we've got the resources and funding for that we want to ensure that the facilities available is across Scotland that we will identify working with partners some of the kind of key areas that we will need support it will be for basic stuff facilities to help pressured areas in particular I've had recent I've had recent correspondence from the leader of Highland council about their interests and what that would be and I've asked my officials to set up a scheme in place so that we can move swiftly to try and deploy investment in that it's sitting there some of the funding is in the major events line just now I'll move that I think it's important that that's identified as tourism capital we've not really had a tourism capital fund before so that's why it's maybe not as clear in the budget as it might be and I'd like to see that maybe changed a future revision so that it would help the committee and indeed others identify where tourism capital funding is on that point that the fund that capital funding that you mentioned within that rural development fund there is part of that for South Ayrshire coastal plan and a part for south of Scotland I think it's 1.8 million who will you is that part of the rural tourism infrastructure fund? no okay so the rural infrastructure fund which is the new fund to help with pressured areas there's some funding that's half a million pound for south of Scotland in particular to help with tourism which will be some of it we're working with I should expect with local partners on that so some of that will be around adventure tourism, forestry tourism international promotion, what we can do there and then there's also an element for Ayrshire an Ayrshire coastal path which will help the Ayrshires in particular that's again working with local partners that's what the councils have asked us to to develop collectively with them so that's additional to the funding that's available for the rural infrastructure fund okay and last question do you have an idea of who will drive that fund is it the local authorities who will be responsible for spending that money, the allocation of the Scottish Government money we will certainly work in councils we'll be key partners in what we're doing as we'll hire and the south of Scotland in relation to the south of Scotland organisation so this will be done in coordination agreement with them and I would establish and likely to establish a group with key individuals to help us to determine which projects actually can go ahead but we'll certainly involve the councils in that as well thank you members with questions on tourism Kate Forbes I too welcome that commitment to move quickly on the tourism infrastructure development fund moving on to Visit Scotland in particular I notice a very welcome increase of 275% in the Visit Scotland capital budget to undertake maintenance and upgrades of visitor information centres could you sketch out a little bit more what the priorities are for Visit Scotland in terms of capital particularly in light of recent announcements to close some centres and to move sort of in-house we'll obviously Visit Scotland can answer for themselves in relation to what their programme and priorities are in relation to what we expect of them in terms of our guidance as we expect obviously the marketing promotion of Scotland in terms of some of the digital activity that we've outlined there hasn't been a capital line really for tourism previously so that's what I've identified in a number of the infrastructure fund I've just described the South of Scotland fund and also the Ayrshire coastal path as well as for the first time this funding that's available particularly to help with them with some of the delivery model in relation to how do we harness the marketing that actually does go on with those existing operational budgets in relation to their own deployment they obviously need to refresh some of their visitor information centres there is an issue in relation to the 58 per cent reduction in football people aren't booking using, I'm not saying they're not booking but a big reduction in the number of people are booking accommodation via Visit Scotland premises so that's obviously why they're carrying out a change way they need to rely more on a digital platform for that to support what I think somewhere between 1,400 and 1,600 visitor information partnerships so for example people will be able to access the information they would normally get from a Visit Scotland office from the Historic Environment Scotland local locality or other partners that are in that area and they're quite extensive and indeed some of the response for example where the local community actually wanted to take over what the provision, you might be more familiar with that than I said but they wanted to take over what was being said and promoted in their local area so they've taken over that but the information can still be available so the investment is actually to help some of the digital online support that's underpinning that that's quite impressive and also in terms of developing obviously digital lies with your colleague the cabinet secretary for connectivity what does it look like working with him in terms of rolling out digital across Scotland and particularly rural areas and then assisting businesses in the tourism industry to be able to harness digital and develop I noticed that one of the priorities this year for example was developing an app for the A9 corridor so what do the priorities look like this coming year and how do you work with Fergus Ewing to develop that digital agenda well digital is actually responsible to you all ministers are carrying out to some degree the Scottish Government's digital program and we have to and I've also got responsibility for some of the inclusion issues but the impact of digital is considerable the fact that by the end of 2017 we're going to have 95% roll-out of fibre broadband is very very important the announcement this week £600 million for it 30 that's going to be a big development what does that mean it means more people can transact and obviously we're living in a world where particularly if you look at the new markets the millennials or those that are travelling particularly to Scotland for adventure tourism Scotland rough guide saying the most beautiful country where a lot of people will be booking internationally and they'll be booking online now unfortunately to date and a lot of it might be because of the either speeds or indeed accessibility not as many people have been transacting digitally as they could and should be from businesses and so what we are doing is co-ordinating that's a programme with VisitScotland and the Scottish Enterprises Digital Tourism Ayrshire is going to be another key focus for this activity where there's an intensive period of training and support for those companies with it's small hotels, bed and breakfast you name it, tours and businesses that aren't transacting online to encourage them and support them to transact online and that should up the figures because I was quite shocked I think I probably shared that to you before that in previous years 60% of those that were advertising on VisitScotland's websites weren't transacting additionally that's now down to 50% that's a big change over the summer period where obviously that rollout has now meant that more people have got the access to the broadband to be able to do this but obviously during the summer period there's so busy many of them running their businesses that they're not necessarily being able to do as much of the training sessions so we're working with Scottish Tourism Alliance and VisitScotland to ensure over I suppose the quieter period those training sessions are there to help people to be able to transact online I've made digital, I've got a high level tourism group where I've got the industry Scottish Tourism Alliance there as well as with Scotland, Scottish Enterprise High and we will have the south of Scotland body and I've made digital tourism one of the key things that we keep coming back to on that so there's a journey to go on but we're well on that way to help deliver that Thank you very much Richard Lockhart Thank you Congratulations to the cabinet secretary on securing a good settlement for your portfolio I'm sure it was very tough negotiations but this would not be a meeting of this committee if we didn't discuss Brexit therefore I just wonder if you would like to comment on the implications for your budget of Brexit and also refer to how fleet of food you feel you might have to be moving forward Okay, I may bring in Karen Watter as well on this issue I thought we were going to get through this without discussing Brexit so you might have to reach it I suppose a lot of it is the unknown what we're dealing with but in terms of resources a couple of things some of it will be about the day to day issues about how we as a government can deal with things and the resources that we have so therefore the overall government protection of the administration budget has been very important to make sure that we've got resources and people and very skilled people to be able to deal with the issues as they arise and particularly in relation to the framework issues or in relation to future trading issues as we go into the phase 2 in terms of presence and capability and reach one of the things that the economy had announced was an expansion of the number of SDI resources and staff in Europe that's again not my portfolio that's in his but it's a signal of quite a long far out identifying that we're going to have to have more intensive on the ground activity to support businesses in Europe we've established our innovation investment hub in Dublin Brussels where this budget will allow I think four more members of staff in Brussels to help us to support the resourcing there we will be opening the Berlin hub again that will be helping our trade investment and also tourism, Germany is a major major source of tourism in a very focused that will support the Paris hub and that allows us to bring together and align more our government deployment whether it's in trade and industry or whether it's in governmental or indeed in other areas so that's part of the explanation of the expansion of the external affairs line so it's got different areas some of it is actually practically having people in place in capitals in Europe in particular and also in relation to the resource that is available I suppose to help support that I'd also indicate that there's also funding in the budget to help the Canada development so we want to make sure that we're expanding in Canada as well and a bit more resource there international trade will become an increasing focus for the government and will need to be both in I suppose it's the practical delivery and support of those that are seeking more business but also I think there's the operational how do we prepare for Brexit perhaps, I don't know if there's anything Karen you want to add to that as well thank you yes I think the fundamental point is that having retained the resource element of the administration budget for the Scottish government at 179.5 million then I think that's the envelope that we're working within across government and of course it's not just this portfolio it is every portfolio that's affected by Brexit and I think our general approach both in this portfolio and elsewhere has been really to look at what assessments and preparations we can make for whatever outcome we're facing and I think that's part of the challenge in this portfolio and others in trying to work through how Brexit might be affected therefore we're looking at a range of scenarios so we're constantly reviewing where our resources are whether we've got the right skills and the requirements in place and at this point in time I think we've got the right level within this portfolio of staffing and resources we're investing in our overseas offices and in our hubs to have people on the ground and we're also being quite resourceful about bringing in experts so we have people seconded in from for example Edinburgh University we have the Standing Council of Experts which the First Minister Cabinet Secretary and others can turn to and we've got a raft of external stakeholders that we're working with to mixture a mixed economy of people in post overseas domestically and with a raft of other external experts who are helping us to look at the issues that we're facing. I was going to ask about Scotland House and how you envisaged that role being resourced moving forward in Brexit and you've mentioned there's four extra staff I think you said it's going to be located in Scotland House and meanwhile it's being reported that the transition period for Brexit that the UK will not be represented at the councils are taking decisions over for instance fish quotas which means the role of Scotland House and indeed domestic civil servants in the fishes section will be influenced, I just wondered what the four staff were perhaps going to be focusing on. There's additional resource for resident director posts so we have now put a director into Brussels we also have other administrative but also policy experts who will be in there and I guess the overall objective is to be making sure we're protecting Scotland's interest in the round, making sure Scotland's voice is heard but also being more visible with key portfolios you mentioned fisheries there are a range of justice agriculture other portfolios but by investing in the office and also transforming it slightly into a hub that will bring together our Scottish Government interests more generally we're aiming to be more influential both around the corridors in Brussels but also to feed back more useful intelligence about what is happening on an on-going basis and as you know Brussels works through networks and through contacts and by having a more senior presence and an enhanced staff in complement we'll be able to do more of that Good morning Your letter of the 14th of December was very helpful and a couple of questions regarding that as well In the letter you discussed regarding the benefits of the single market crucial of the impact of choosing not to be in the single market Can you provide some information in terms of the analysis that the Scottish Government has undertaken on the economic impact of Brexit? We will be making public further analysis at some point in the new year which I think will help the committee and can I also just put on record my thanks to the committee I think this committee has done a fantastic piece of work in terms of the various inquiries you've had in relation to Brexit I think you yourself have provided a very useful analysis that's helped the Parliament and indeed the country Obviously some of the letter I wrote to you refers to the Fraser Allander forecast of a reduction of £11 billion a year by 2030 and 80,000 fewer jobs compared to remaining a member of the EU but I suppose when we're in a situation where there's still a position where we don't know what the state of Brexit will look like we are very clear that a single market membership customs union membership is what we think would be the preferable it will be the least worst option in relation to the negative impact of where we might be but I think it's very important for us all to be vigilant but also to set out particularly in the areas that we have responsibility for what that would look like whether it's in tourism, whether it's in creative industries so we've got to all be very vigilant on it, we have to make sure that in terms of setting out what the decisions and the options are we are moving into a period where businesses will be making decisions if they haven't got certainty around transition particularly as steady states transition is desirable or what the future state of the Brexit deal will be there are so many many questions about that I'm not necessarily in a position to forecast what that will be but we have to make sure that we are well equipped to provide the country with analysis and we will do that but I can't release that information just now, we'll be available to you in the new year Thank you, your letter also highlights the issue of the EU funding up to 2020 has the Scottish Government received the appropriate clarification on the UK Government yet in terms of the EU funding commitments contained in the joint report I'm happy to be corrected but we've yet to see definitively what that funding will be to substitute for all the different areas that we have concerns of in this portfolio, it's creative Europe for example and others it will be horizon 2020 I really sincerely hope that programmes like Erasmus, horizon 2020 we can still continue in some shape or form to be members of those areas and there are major ones not my responsibility but obviously for the common agricultural policy the subsidies that are available to our farmers there, there's no indication as yet as to what and how the funding can be provided unless there's other information that we have available I'd simply add that clearly the Chancellor announced in the UK budget that he was setting aside £3 billion for transit preparations and I think there's discussion about how that is going to be spent on what it might mean for a range of programmes and other activities My final question you mentioned earlier on regarding the hub in Berlin, do you have any indication as to when that's anticipated to open? When the recruiting has finalised now and so we make an announcement about the opening of that in very shortly Thank you If there are no other questions for members I'll finish with a relatively technical question Oh thank you very much I'm sure you've got the expertise around you as well as of course at your own hand simply to refer to the consistent underspend in a number of recent years of the external affairs budget it's been an underspend of only a million pounds or so a year but nonetheless it does raise the question of how confident you are that the adjusted figure for the current year will be fully spent and also your projection going forward It's an area that the committee has obviously had a consistent interest on in various budgets I mean there is a point that some of what we do in external affairs is reactive particularly for visits whether it's incoming or outgoing in terms of what can or should be spent and also in the past in relation to some of the spend is made or not made what we've tried to do this year and our programme for government is consolidate humanity and aid so there is actually a fund and I think you've had Alasdair Allen in fairly recently going through how that operates now that should I suppose provide a bit more predictability in relation to that I think when resources are very tight just because you have a budget it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to spend all of it just to spend it it's really important that you only spend it what you need to and I think some flexibility is required particularly in something that is quite a reaction particularly in external affairs is a bit more reactive perhaps than others most of my budget in the portfolio goes out immediately in terms of grant need to visit Scotland to historic environment Scotland etc and it's very much front facing but some of it has to be a bit more flexible but we know that you keep a very close eye and monitoring on that so we'll make sure I'm sorry I'm suffering here sorry sorry convener I wasn't at the Christmas party last night this is actual genuinely honest so if there's anything more technical in that nature that you need us to respond to happy to do so in correspondence that's very thoughtful I'm disappointed neither of your officials is able to offer you cough sweets for the occasion but I know it's been a tradition elsewhere but since I landed you with a technical question I'll ask one policy question just to finish and to give you a moment as well and that was around the future trade negotiations which clearly will have our relevance to many of the aspects of your budget on many of the things we've discussed today because of the crossover between cultural trade, external affairs and so on and to ask simply if you've had any indication of any Government of what role yourself and your colleagues will play in putting forward those trade negotiation positions Well clearly Michael Russell is the minister responsible in leading on the Brexit negotiations and we have had no indication as yet I think as to what that might be the person that we normally have dialogue with in relation to devolved administration of course was the former First Secretary in Green we'll obviously have to reassess what the relationship will be with the Scottish Government and who will lead for the UK in relation to those dialogues as we go forward but there's nothing else I can add to that at this moment Thank you very much and I appreciate your persistence in getting through all of those questions and answers Thank you very much to the Cabinet Secretary and to our officials May I on behalf of the committee do the same and wish the Cabinet Secretary and officials and all those here today a fantastic break at Christmas and a good new year and may I also as Deputy convener at what may be my last meeting as Deputy convener thank the clerks, all of my colleagues and all of the Parliament staff who supported the work of this committee over the last 18 months as well as of course the Government for giving so much evidence as required