 Hello, and welcome to another live streamed meeting of the M25's coordinating body. It's coordinating collective. As usual, every Thursday, we are doing these sessions the agenda today will be burning issues. As usual, what's going on in the world and what the M25 could potentially do about it. And then we'll have a civilized a provocative debate on our electoral strategy. If you've got any comments, thoughts, ideas, queries, anything you want to throw at us, put them in the chat. And if David's going to have a look through them and I may be reading some of them out in between the event interventions. Okay, let's kick it off. Well, thank you. Italy. New technocratic government by Mario Draghi most technocratic in the sense that the three important areas economy, the disbursement of the monies that come from the slush fund, the recovery fund, whatever it's called. Digital technologies, all these go to mates of Mario Draghi technocrats that have never been anywhere near the political process. Comrades, let me remind you of the second paragraph of our manifesto, the deum manifesto I'm going to read it out because I think it's, it's quite pertinent. I'm reading it out from my screen at the heart of our disintegrating European Union. There lies a guilty deceit. A highly political top down opaque decision making process is presented as a political technical procedural and neutral. Their purpose is to prevent Europeans from exercising democratic control over their money finance working conditions and the environment. The price of this deceit is not merely the end of democracy, but also poor economic policies. Comrades, I submit to you that that very important extract of, you know, from our DM 25 manifesto written back in 2015 2016 could have been written for Italy today and Mario Draghi's government. It is with astonishment and a lot of sadness that I have noticed lots of progressives in Italy in the context of wishful thinking, you know, wishing Draghi well and hoping that his government is going to bring about, you know, not normality, but reforms that will render Italy an enormous state closer to Germany, to Germany, not to Germany, but, you know, to, let's say, Spain and so on. And also recognising that this is probably the last bet of the establishment towards an Italy that makes Europe sustainable and stabilise the Eurozone. This is not going to happen. This is pie in the sky. The PM 25ers, deemers in Italy must fight tooth and nail against this Draghi government. The extract of the manifesto I think says it all. This, you know, the reason why Italy is unsustainable is because it's part of a Eurozone which is depoliticising hugely and deeply political decision making. Why do they do that? Because it's in the interest of the oligarchy and especially the financial oligarchy. This process of depoliticisation of decision making is what led to the stagnation of Italy, Italy's unsustainability as a political economy. And now what they're doing is they're trying to solve the problems that depoliticisation created by further depoliticisation, by having, you know, Mario Draghi, Goldman Sachs, ECB do it. The only spot on commentary that I read in the Italian press yesterday is the following paragraph. I'll tell you at the end who spoke those words. It is a matter, that's what is important, this person says now, what is important is not to resign ourselves to the idea that the Italian democracy is reduced, diminished, that it is one where the citizens vote counts for less and less. And that when the going gets tough, someone arrives from above to try to do what those chosen by the people would certainly not be able to do. It is a matter of not resigning ourselves to this diminution of democracy. This is correct. Do you know who said that? Georgia Meloni, the leader of the fascists. This is what Draghi is doing. He's making fascist voices legitimate in the same way that some of what Goebbels was saying in the 1920s was spot on. That's what gave the fascists and the Nazis their power. Demers must fight against the fascists and against Draghi. I very much look forward to a manifesto coming from Italy which outlines how we are going in Italy to oppose Draghi and to oppose Meloni simultaneously. Until we see this from our Italian comrades, we are not going to rest. We will not exist in Italy. We will not be capable of taking the pulse of what's happening in Italy today. Now I want to turn to another country, another battlefield in Europe to France. Comrades, it is again with a deep regret and concern that I am watching. In the universities of that great country, in the French university system, a new McCarthyism being built up. A new McCarthyism that is propagated by Macron and his government and the establishment. You can see the bankruptcy of the educational system and the research networks that used to be so very strong. When the institutes Pasteur and Sanofi, the multinational vaccine producing company, failed to produce a vaccine. There is this humiliation that the French feel. There used to be leaders in vaccines, they invented vaccines and now they cannot compete in this market. And this now is creating a tsunami of McCarthyism against the left. There is an attempt to blame the systemic failure of French academia and the French research sector on the left. Too many radical voices on the left, I don't need to say more. This is underpinning the campaign of Macron. Macron is going to try to counter Le Pen, Le Pen's ultranationalism, xenophobia and so on. This is his own variety of nationalism and ultranationalism and xenophobia. Effectively what he is saying now is that the enemy is the left. He is using this term Islamogoshism, Islamogoshism, Islamoleftism. He is painting Islam and the left as the opponent. And for him defending republican values and reigning in left wing radicalism will become the flag that he waves by which to steal people from the standard fascist, neo-fascist of Le Pen. That separatist law that he passed in parliament is part, I think, is one plank of this campaign. The other is to remind leftists that they are now the targets. He's clearly saying that he's actually referred to the anti-colonial discourse, the criticism by French people of the French Empire. He is referring to this as being a self-hating Frenchman or French woman. And he's going to present this new form of republicanism, of extreme right wing republicanism as a way to defeat Trumpism and Le Pen. Again, what I said regarding Italy pertains to France. I want to see D.M.ers. This is speaking for myself, right? As a D.M.er. I want to see D.M. develop a manifesto for France. In the same way, we need to develop a manifesto for Italy. We need to develop a manifesto for France of how to attack simultaneously Macron and Le Pen. Now I want to move to an economic issue. I won't bother you too much with that. But to those who think, who have allowed themselves to be lulled into a false sense of satisfaction with the macroeconomic response of the European Union in general to the COVID-19 escalation of the pre-existing economic crisis. I've got four numbers for you. Four, twelve, nine and six. Let me explain what these numbers are. These numbers come from the Financial Times. They don't come from a left-wing rag. The same Financial Times that supports Macron, supports Merkel, supports Draghi. They've come out with these numbers. What are these numbers? Two pairs. One pair. It's a comparison between the European Union and the United States. It's a comparison of two numbers. One is the so-called output gap. How much production is being wasted due to the failures of capitalism? One is that. And the second one is the stimulus level. According to the Financial Times, in the United States, four percent of productive activity is being wasted as a result of the failures of capitalism to employ people, to employ machinery, to employ land productively. Four percent. This is their estimate. In Europe, it's nine percent according to the Financial Times. So it's more than double. More than double output is lost due to the failures of European capitalism than in the United States. And what is the stimulus by which to try to bring this productive capacity back online? In America, where there is a four percent gap, the stimulus is twelve percent. In Europe, where it is double, it's nine percent. The stimulus together with national stimulus, you know, ECBA, is only six percent. So that we know why it is absolutely legitimate to call the European Union stupid. There is nothing, no other term by which to refer to it. Even from a capitalist point of view, they're idiotic. It is a stupid continent. Let's be clear on this. Fourth, one of our great comrades and one of the best persons to have walked on planet Earth in the last, you know, sixty, seventy years, eighty years, is a gentleman by the name of Ken Loach. We all know Ken. He's a member of our advisory panel. Comrades, he is being ferociously attacked and viciously attacked by the people who want to make any criticism of Israel impossible by branding anyone who dares speak out against the apartheid policies of Israel as an antisemite. I wrote an article today this morning in the New Left Review in support of Ken, of Comrade Ken. I think that the whole of DM 25 must stand by Ken Loach in the same way we stood by Julian and Brian Eno and others. And finally, two small items, not small, but brief. One has to do with what I have been watching emerge in front of my eyes, the rationalism of regarding vaccinations in Europe that is being an irrationalism that is being peddled by the European Union establishment in order to cover up their own fiasco. What we've seen in places like Germany and in France, trying to portray AstraZeneca, the AstraZeneca, the UK, Swedish vaccine, as a failure and as dangerous and so on, this is just sour grapes, the original meaning of the Isop myth on sour grapes. We didn't manage to sign the proper contract with them, so we will say we didn't want it because it's not good enough. This is amazing when you see people resisting the vaccine that would save their lives because rubbish has been implanted in their brains by those who failed to secure the right supplies. And finally, I don't know whether you've been following what has been happening in Australia over the last year or so. The Australian government has been doing the right thing. They've been doing the right thing towards big tech. They've been saying to big tech, if you keep using journalistic output, the output of our newspapers in particular, then you have to start paying for it. So the Australian government, right wing Australian government, tried to, effectively, not try to, legislated that unless Google, Facebook and others enter into negotiations with newspapers, with the print media, to pay them a small amount for the items that they are using, then the government would impose a tax on them. Now, in the last few days, we had two remarkable developments which show, which are indicative of how the oligarchy without frontiers is just completely dominant. The response has been twofold. On the one hand, Facebook announced that they are banning from Facebook all news items from Australia. So all the output of the, we're not going to pay for it and we're locking it out of Facebook. So that's the aggressive approach by Zuckindra to show that, effectively, to demonstrate, he loses out of it too, but he wants to demonstrate to other countries, if you dare ask me to pay money to journalists for use of their journalistic output, I'm going to just completely cut off all access that you have to Facebook. Who did the opposite? Google, what the opposite? They did something different. In order to break the back of the government, of the Australian government, they went behind the Australian government's back and they struck a deal with Rupert Murdoch's News Limited. Why? News Limited is more or less a monopoly, not a monopoly, but a dominant player in Australia as it is in Britain and in the United States, but mostly in Australia, most of the large outlets, newspapers in Australia, not all of them, but most of them are owned by Rupert Murdoch. So instead of agreeing with the government, they agreed with Rupert Murdoch to pay only Rupert Murdoch, only News Limited, very right-wing, fox-like, toxic right-wing newspapers for content. So Google will pay the right-wing newspapers of Rupert Murdoch. And why Rupert Murdoch? Because the only reason why this right-wing horrible Australian government has been doing the right thing is because Rupert Murdoch has been egging them on. So he used the Australian government to extract some payments from Google, ensuring, of course, that his competitors, who are more progressive, never get a penny. I said enough, thank you. That was my list of burning issues for today. Thanks, Janis. David. Thanks, Mehra. I'll just pick up on something that Janis said when he was talking about Italy, which I think is something that I haven't said before, at least in the CC meetings. I mean, first of all, as we've been saying all along, the establishment and the far right, they're both sides of the same coin, and they reinforce each other, they need each other, they're not opposites, as sometimes they're framed in the media, they really need each other. And let me give you an example of something that happened in my home country in Portugal, which is how I started my intervention just now. The socialist party two years ago contested, of course, the general election, and they came first. They didn't win with an outright majority, but nevertheless, they entered parliament, they're the governing party, they're the establishment party, and for the first time also, two years ago, the far right entered the Portuguese parliament. This is something that was unheard of in Portuguese history since 1974, and the fascist period that you all know about. He came, he entered parliament with one MP, you know, one MP a year and a half later, just in this January, there was a presidential election, and he was a candidate for the presidency, and he actually came third, almost second, he almost beat the socialist candidate by, I think, you know, almost, I think the difference was like one percent or something, you know, I don't have the exact numbers. But just to show you that the incumbent, you know, the right-wing president won the presidential election, but the far right, for the first time, this one person has managed to gather more than 13 percent of the votes in a country where the far right was nowhere to be seen for a very, very long time, you know. So, you know, what's happening there is just an example of what's been happening all over Europe, and this is something that DM obviously needs to fight for. This is the reason why we exist, and I think, you know, we definitely need those manifestos and those programs, because without them, we won't really get anywhere. So, I subscribe to what, you know, Janice's appeal for the programs. Thanks. Thanks, David. Does anyone else have any comments on anything that's been said so far in this segment, this point on the agenda? Ah, Lewis. Yeah, thanks. Same thing. Exactly the same thing has happened in Spain, as David just told us about Portugal. A tiny, almost ridiculed minority of people entered the Spanish parliament a couple of years ago. It was almost a manic note, because exactly as it happened in Portugal, we had not seen the trace of that, at least not in institutions. There were always pockets of, you know, Nazis and extreme writers, but nothing to be taken seriously. In fact, I even didn't take it seriously when it happened, because we were going through a bunch of stuff, including the crisis in Catalonia and what not, and that usually triggers extremes. But right now, we just had a regular relationship in Catalonia. These folks beat the actual formal institutional right, which is very worrying, of course. And so, yes, I agree with David. It is really time for us to come up with national, regional and local programs offering an alternative, because you see this trend. And I think that Yanis has said this before, with respect to Brexit and even Trumpism. We're not talking about deluded, crazy citizens that all of a sudden, you know, go deluded and crazy. It is that they're desperate and they're hearing things that they like. There's this, you know, use of populism, but the other is a problem. The different is a problem as a solution to all the crisis that the French establishment itself has produced. So, yeah, that's what I want to say. Thanks, Luz. Anyone else? Okay. It looks like everybody's in agreement. Maybe we can get a bit of a debate going in this next part. Okay, so moving on. DM 25 is a political movement and in parallel with campaigning on the ground, developing policies, one tool that we use to bring about changes, establishing parties and running in elections in its five years. In its allies have stood in several elections, European elections and of course the last Greek national elections where we got into parliament and we've learned some lessons from this. But going forward, what should be our electoral strategy? Do we aim to unite the left trying to build coalitions with other parties of movements before competing? Or do we first try to build a strong DM 25 own DM 25 run electoral vehicle as we did in Greece before considering alliances. This is a key point of difference in our movement. And I'd like to invite all of you guys to chime in on it. Three minutes max for interventions. Who's first, Rosemary. I want to come in on the previous discussion. Sorry, on electoral politics. I will say only only this. It's a pretty stretch going into here. But after the European elections, he made one point about his experience that I thought was interesting, which was he said it was so much easier to go into towns where DM 25 had a presence. I don't think he was talking about the fact that they had been able to take election leaflets in, you know, in a more efficient way. I think he meant that it was because DM 25 had a real presence on the ground. It was known and interesting to the people there for the work that they were doing locally or whatever. But if we, if we try and oppose electoral politics to other forms of politics, we're going to get ourselves in a dead end. We need electoral politics plus. Thanks, Rosemary. Anyone, anyone else. No. Yes, sorry, but I got a terrible connection today. I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, Yanis perfectly mentioned our manifesto previously, and I do believe that right now in Italy, we have a great opportunity. Thanks to Mario Draghi. Yes, a great opportunity to create really a force which can lead a real alternative to Mr. Mario Draghi. So we have been done an incredible job in our territory and we really, we are really ready to reinforce DM SDM. And look at what we have done in Greece, but we don't have to be timid now in Italy, but firmly start around now very far. Because once again, we could really. I don't see that. Sorry. If you, if you try turning off your video, I think we're having, we're having an alternative, even a real why we have to do right now. And I will move on that direction. Thanks, Patricia. We obviously had some sorry. Try turning off, try turning off your video. This is a reality of zoom and the COVID era and so on. Yes. Yes. Okay. I think we got, we got most of that. Sorry. No problem. It happens. David, you had a comment. And I'll come after, I'll just allow the others to speak as I spoke earlier. So. Okay. Anyone else. Anyone like to react to Patricia. Okay. I go. Yes. I want to say that I think it's not an or a decision if the one or the other, the problem is with coalitions is that you have to offer something and I don't think if you don't have your manifesto in the country and if you don't have have built your own. I mean, there where we have decided to have electoral wings. It is natural that you would build your electoral wing first and know what you are about. Before you even try to talk to others to have a coalition. So I think that for most of the electoral wings like in France or Italy at the moment. We, we have to assure some, some basis framework also for the members to know what, what they are talking about if they even think about coalitions, because from my experience. Right now, if people come together in the electoral wings and we have boards, it's, it's mostly strangers that have different political views so that needs to have they need to have some time to figure out their political basis and to figure out what to make of, of, of DM in their own country. As a mirror has become like, like its own Institute in Greece, and now now it's approachable for people but they know what matters about and everyone in Meran knows what matters about. I wouldn't say the same thing for the German electoral wing at this point. We are still finding our own identity as electoral wings so I think that this discussion for most of the people that are engaged in the electoral wings is maybe too far at this point to think about coalitions. This is my point of view as someone who is active on the side for two years now. Thanks Juliana Lewis. Yeah, it's a little bit along what Juliana has just said over the past five years have attended several meetings, many things with other political potential partners and whatnot. In 2005, from its manifesto when you read it, always aims to have the widest reach and welcoming open arms with like-minded people who, you know, stand behind same ideals that we put together. And I consider myself extremely proud of for European spring bid, even though it did not yield results. It's historic I think we were able to, you know, bring together political forces from Warsaw to Madrid to Athens to Portugal. Under the same program. And that's fantastic. However, the reality is that because we are willing to compromise, but not be compromised, you often find the reality of all politics. And I was telling the crew earlier today, and I think that happened only a few weeks after DMP55 was funded. At the end it was coming to Madrid to an event. And I was just scheduled meetings and with people, you know, that could be like-minded that we could talk to. This was this particular person who was the leader of a political party. He later became an MP. And our conversation ended like this. This is verbatim. He said, you guys are not a political party or you're planning on developing one. You know, we just found ourselves as a movement a few weeks ago. You never know. Well, just so you know, we're willing to work with you. But the moment you become a political party or establish a political party, it will drop you. So I don't think that we can be innocent about how the establishment works, the political machinery behind political parties that's, you know, established. And I think that, as Juliana said, we need to develop more alternatives for programs or offers. Even though we really had a, you know, a shoot, you know, running on the string to run a campaign during the past elections. In Germany, 200,000 people believed in us. A million across Europe in the European bit believed in us. So let's get back to them. And yes, electoral politics is just one tool that we have at our disposal. So movement growth, which is basically where Rosemary was heading at having that presence and electoral politics have to go ahead and it's not one or the other. I think it's both. We need to use every single tool to come across and bring our message out, I think. Thanks, Lewis. Yanis. In brief, coalitions are absolutely necessary for particular causes. For instance, think of the Amazon campaign. It would be stupid to try to do it on our own, right? We need as broad a coalition as possible. In the Amazon campaign, we aligned ourselves with people that we disagree with on many things. With trade unions from all over the world, environmentalists, some of whom said things that I personally disagree with. But it doesn't matter because we had a common cause to make Amazon pay. So when it comes to stopping the privatization of water, defending particular workers working in some warehouse, making Amazon pay, pushing for the rights of transgender people and so on. Of course, this is where DEM is going to maximize its effort to create coalitions. When it comes to electoral politics, I have exactly the opposite view. There's one thing which is far, far worse than not being in government or not being in parliament. And that is being in government in a terrible coalition. I know that. I've been in it because in the end every government is more or less a coalition government, even if it's from the same party. We had two parts. We had the far right xenophobic racist party sharing the cabinet table with us. You have no idea how hard that was. And so when it comes to electoral politics, I'm dead against coalitions. What we did with the European Spring, and I'm pleased that Louis mentioned it, is something which to be very proud of. Because before the elections, we said to people, OK, here's our manifesto, the Green New Deal for Europe, the European New Deal, as we called it initially. You want to discuss this? Let's sit around the table. I think we'll find common ground and we'll run together. Yes, that absolutely yes. But that will be hard for the reasons that Louis advocated, explained, related. The moment you start saying, I'm going to run and let's run together, they will kill you. They will either kill you or try to smother you with love. So remember what Delinke did with us? Effectively said, oh, you know, we will elect one of your people or maybe two to the European Parliament as long as, you know, you submerge yourself in our electoral vehicle. That's not the way in my response to Gregorgizzi was, we don't want to be elected. We can support you. Let's agree on a common agenda, right, on a program and we'll stay behind. You can go to Parliament. But no, they didn't want that either because for them, what was important was not to have a program, not to have a policy in order to be able to maintain their bureaucratic loose coalition. We don't want to be part of such coalition under no circumstances. I mean, Rosemary and I have been engaged on last night with comrades in the United Kingdom. Again, we've been talking about how to build a movement that creates the opportunity for people that are like-minded to come to a common program and a common campaign. Right. And that's important. But to stitch up some kind of coalition electorally just because there's an election and we need to get elected, which is what happens in Italy all the bloody time. Excuse my French again. Right. Let's get together. Let's have confidence to get elected to do what? To do what? You know, you've got in a place like Italy today, you've got to answer the question. Right. What are you going to do with poverty? How are you going to finance it? What are you going to do with the so-called recovery fund? Are you going to play along that the recovery fund is going to help us recover? Or do you torpedo it? A very simple question. If our coalition won and was in the Eurogroup, what would we say? Unless we have a common answer to these questions, there's no point in standing together. You know, it is an abuse of democratic process to stand together. So I'll go back to my original statement. Coalitions galore when it comes to the movement with particular causes that are common. No coalition whatsoever. That is a stitch up for the purpose of getting elected at the ballot box. Thank you, Janis. And since we don't have any contributions yet from the chat, I'd like to read out to you something which was a member contribution to our General Assembly last year and several of our local groups. It kind of echoes what you say. By prioritizing alliance building before strengthening our position, we ended up playing old politics and business as usual, negotiating with the dinosaurs of the left and career politicians. We found ourselves bound to failed ideas diluting our agenda and making compromises we shouldn't have. By switching our electoral strategy to build a strong DM before getting into alliances, we believe DM will have the best chance at gaining electoral power and thus its project progressive agenda becoming reality. So those are those are our grassroots members. David. Thanks, Merdan. Well, look, you know, if you take into account the current political landscape that we have today, I mean, we really should rid of ourselves of the notion that the world that we need in the future for everybody will be built for us. I mean, that's one of the lessons that I think we've learned from the M and also even before the M existed. Sadly, I think we will have to do it ourselves and in order to do that it means bringing as many people as we can possibly under the banner of the M 25 in a way, of course, which maintains our coherence and our and our structures and maybe it's because I live in Brussels I don't know perhaps maybe just that. But when I look around Europe I really fail to see any hope for the left I mean I don't see I don't in Europe that's active that's fighting against the establishment politics that are left that is fighting against the rising far right a left that is actually caring about how to resolve those problems across the continent so do you see any hope because I don't see any. And yes, we do have political allies in several countries, we, you know, as Lewis mentioned we ran with some of them, we, you know, linked arms for the European elections in 2019. And of course you know unofficially and so on we've supported them and, and even then officially we did work together. But you know the point now, after that experience with 2019 is to really develop our own structures our own capacity to take our ideas to the ballot box, and to do so with a mass movement that is behind our electoral wings which can propel those ideas into the streets but also into parliaments everywhere just like with matter 25 so to answer the question that we have for tonight I mean I think the question the answer really is depends and it depends whether we're talking about movement building or whether we're talking about elections. And just to finalize, sorry, I'm taking a bit too long, but you know, if there was another transnational movement like DM, doing what we believe to be necessary DM wouldn't need to exist you know we exist precisely to challenge that nation state approach to politics and to be the radical left that was once a beacon of hope for the, for the world, and where the internationalist left let's not forget about that word that for you know that doesn't exist anymore when you look around it, you know, as I said there's no left in Europe, there is DM there's a progressive international as I see it, beyond it. So, you know, the point is whatever we do we should be coherent and and electoral coalitions you know tend to be a problem when that's concerned so that's my take. Thank you David, anyone else? Luis. Yeah, I think that it is a responsibility to do the heavy lifting as to communicating better the alternative, we need to create those manifestos urgently now that we are restructuring and that we have a five year plan. We just turned five. The next five years really should be about raising your voice and committing to bring out those those manifestos and running in elections, so we shouldn't see it as as Janice mentioned as you know for the sake of getting a seat somewhere, but also to gain visibility and you know, turn those millions that we need over to us, we need to become attractive, we need to come at thread a political force to be reckoned with, but if there's a movement as an electoral alternative, that's really needed, because there's a vacuum as David said, and we need to fill it. So, let's go. Thank you Luis, Juliana. Yeah, I just want to at one point I think that what we really can do different is to show decent solidarity with the people out because I think this is all many parties established parties are all about saying the right words to persuade people and when I thought of not just another party, but that you know the thinking behind this to be not the self sustaining, you know little party that that just functions well with no connection to to the what's happening outside of the world, or with the people that we are also working for right because everyone that is now in need of political activism is unlikely to have the time because they're struggling with losing jobs and so on. So these people who are active and will become active in DM. Also, I think in some some point you take also responsibility for those who cannot stand up themselves so this should be not only the movement should be about solidarity but also the parties and the electoral wings that we develop. Yes, besides all the structural things that are needed. Thanks Juliana Rosemary. Yes, I just want to say, I don't really agree with David about there not being any kind of left out there except us. I think there are lots of bits and pieces of what could constitute a European left in all sorts of parts of Europe. But I don't think that is the issue. I think Juliana has hit the nail on head. The important thing is the relationship with people, what you can do for them, what they can help you do what you can skill them in doing. That will be decisive. That will be decisive both in our movement politics and in our electoral success. Thank you. Well, unless anyone else has any other comments I think we'll If I told you to find a bridge between Rosemary and David, of course there are lots of leftists around and left forces. I'm sure that David didn't mean to say that there aren't. What is missing, however, is any, I can't see a single political party or movement that is firstly interested in transnational politics from the progressive side. I'm not talking about Vox. And secondly, it's an agenda. And the third, and who are not in it for career's purposes. Because there is Podemos, there is Syriza. There are people in Syriza who are still claiming to be part of the left, but they're all in it for their careers. It's very clear now they become bureaucratic career boosting machines, right? And the good people of the left who are not connected to us, right? They're fragmented. They're dispersed. They are, you know, they are disheartened and they are disunited. What we've done here, we may not be many, but we are, you know, as we speak now, each one of us sits in a different country, mostly, right? We have a common plan, you know, common answers to questions that the bankers can answer, the fascists can answer, you know, the liberalists can answer succinctly. We have answers to these questions. The rest of the left doesn't. They really don't. I do not know, tell me Rosemary, who in Germany, who is not them? Who in Spain, who is not them? Who in Italy, who is not them? Have coherent answers to the question, what the hell is happening now with COVID-19 from the perspective, you know, of redistributing income, financing the Green New Deal and ending this constant flow of money from the European Central Bank to the oligarchy? Now, I don't know a single political party from the left or group that have sensible answers on this. Not answers that I agree with, sensible answers. Answers that are coherent, that have a beginning, a middle and an end. None, not one. And this, I'm not saying this, you know, to say, oh, aren't we great? Let's all, you know, be very upset about this. I wish I were, but there aren't. I see Rosemary nodding there. Okay. Yes, I have to nod there because, of course, this is the whole question about electoral politics and coalitions. I mean, if your strength is your policy offer, then, you know, coalitions just muddy the water completely. This is perfectly obvious. And to that extent, I think GM25 has taken correct decisions in its electoral path. Yeah. And coalitions on campaigns. Huge coalitions, the more the merrier. Okay, right. Guys, thank you. I think that will wrap up this live streamed part of our meeting. Thank you out there for joining us and