 Hello, everybody. We are live for NVT at home Founders Month edition. I am your host moderator Chelsea D. I'm here with a cohort of alumni who are just blazing trails into the new into the new world into the future. And so I'm so excited to be talking to everybody here this evening. But before we get into this, I want to take a moment to talk about what we're doing here for Founders Month. And why the significance of what this what this year really means. I've been thinking about 50 years since the beginning of the National Black Theater. And what does the next 50 years look like what does that what is that going to entail how are we going to get there. So part of how we're figuring that out is through these conversations for myself personally and spiritually and artistically, I've been figuring out what does the future look like how can we really plot out a map, incorporating all of our, all of our insight. And then also thinking from a an infrastructure place, how do we do this. So, MBT has launched the vision forward fund. And this fund is going to help ground fortify and help MBT imagine yet another 50 years. So these principles of grounding fortifying and imagining those are the reasons why we are starting this fund so we can figure out how we can sustain ourselves for the next 50 years. We want to start an archive, so that we can really preserve the legacy of Dr. Tier, and the technology of soul, and just all of the things that have been created over the course of MBT 50 years. We're figuring out how we can build capacity so that artists like who we're talking to today can have even more support even more resources even more access through this fund. So how are we imagining, how are we imagining the future for MBT. So, check out MBT website, Facebook page there's a little button that says donate, and that will go to the vision forward fund so that's what that's a part of what we're talking about today. But more, more to the point, I would like to introduce the folks who are on this call. We were talking before we went live, and there was just so much like. Ah, just so much goodness, such a reminder of like, why, why we're doing this who who's this for I'm circling back to that and doesn't that's an inside joke that I'm now making outside. It's really, really so wonderful to be in in communion with you all. And I'm going to do some introductions. I'm going to talk with me so don't be a first generation Nigerian American storyteller and educator attended Wellesley College of tanker MFA from the American Conservatory Theater, and while at ACT co pioneered the NIA project, which provided artistic outlets for youth residing productions of her plays sojourners run boy run her portmanteau and in old age, have been seen at the American Conservatory Theater, the New York Theater Workshop the playwrights realm magic theater National Black Theater strand theater company and Boston court. She's the recipient of the 2017 Helen Merrill playwright award the 2017 18 McKnight National residency and Commission at the playwright center, and is a member of the new dramatists. She's also worked as a television writer on 13 reasons why little America and Pachinko. Anthony so welcome back. I was a strong reader my bio. Hello. Yes, yes, yes. That's what's happening right now it's so good to see you. Thank you I'm very good to see you. Awesome. Okay, I'm going to move on and yes everybody will be getting a strong reading rendition of their bio. So just buckle up. Okay, just buckle up. Okay, moving on to in guzzi and young woo. She was educated at the University of California, San Diego in the thing and acting point Park University be a playwriting she wrote good grief, the homecoming Queen, the book of Lucy and Nike, or we don't need another hero. I'm going to kill Roy's list in 2016 a semi finalist for the princess grace and humanitas award. It was also produced at center theater group in Los Angeles in spring 2017, which onion also starred in, as well as all Broadway in the fall of 2017 at the vineyard theater on young who has has also received residencies and is also commissioned with NYU, the old globe and the Atlantic Theater and guzzi was good how are you. Hey everybody that was a strong read I like the. I appreciate you. Hey get out here in LA. Great. If I'm looking down is because I'm also dog sitting not because I'm on my phone. So I'm also dog sitting so if you see me it's like me trying to calm down a dog. Thank you, thank you for the update. Thank you. Okay, Lee Edward Colston, the second. Welcome. Here we go. Lee Edward is a queer, Philly native former prison guard and mma fighter turned actor television writer playwright director acting teacher and author. Lee's critically acclaimed play the first deep breath open to rave reviews at victory gardens theater in Chicago, as well as being a semi finalist for the page 73 playwriting fellowship, and a finalist for Barrington stage companies award, as well as being the 2020 recipient of the Steinberg new play award citation. Television writing credits include season four of Fargo on FX and for life on ABC. Lee Edward. What's happening. What's good is happy to be here. That wasn't very strong. Thank you very much. Consistency. Okay, that's what we're going for you love to see it. All right, moving on. Angelica Sherry is a playwright musical theater book writer lyricist screenwriter and poet. The place of her profit cycle trilogy include the seeds of Abraham, Billy holiday theater mentored by land knowledge, the sting of white roses National Black Theater Festival, and crown nation National Black Theater, I am so residency. Angelica and her collaborator Ross bomb. Is that it bomb. Okay, Ross bomb. Received the Richard Rogers award for their musical gun and powder, which had its world premiere signature theater directed by Robert O'Hara. She was the master playwright in the Frank Silvera work writers workshop inaugural three and three playwright festival, and has written the Obie award winning 48 hours and Harlem festival and the fire this time festival. And Jelica, how do you do. You man, I straight yes to all the commas and the capital letters and buy it. You gotta honor that you gotta honor the text. I am well I'm in LA and I'm staying away from COVID and my best life in this quarantine. And staying hydrated y'all may not be able to see it but off camera. Okay, okay. All right. Okay, moving on. Dominic writer is a director and dramaturg based in Brooklyn, New York. They believe in living and loving like it is the end of the world agreed. Dominic's work seeks to answer the question, what is a world unmade by slavery. They worked as a director assistant and collaborator at ensemble studio theater, the Haiti cultural exchange MCC, the old globe, the lark so how wrapped the Atlantic the bush with star club thumb. Long war, flux theater company, theater ensembles, WP the movement theater company and the black lady theater. They are the director in residence for the National Black Theater through 2021. Dominic, welcome. Thank you so much. It's Dominic. Dominic. Great. Good, good, good. Dominic, Dominic. Welcome, welcome, welcome. How are you doing, doing okay, doing all right. I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Okay. Okay. I'm with the Dominic I'm with it. All right, so today for today's show we're talking about what fuel Dr. Tier to create in BT, which is just kind of a bigger larger conversation we're having for the next three weeks, four weeks. Okay, July 16 is the last conversation so the rest of this month we're going to be getting into this. And the question we're asking today is what does it mean to create radically free spaces. Do we still need these spaces, and how do we create. How do we sustain what we create for today's check in questions for the artists, and just to give everybody a heads up we'll start with Angelica. But to give you a heads up for what those check in questions are, we're doing an accessibility check in are your needs being met, and accessibility is referencing physical emotional psychological. What do we need to do for you as a community to make you feel most present so accessibility check in. So this is a project updates or something creative that you're working on that you want folks to know about. And then the last question is which residency did you participate in at nbt, and how has working with nbt changed or affected your approach to art making. And we'll start off with Angelica. Okay, here we go. So the first part of this is the accessibility check in right. For myself, I am feeling very abundantly supplied, thankfully. And I feel as though in this moment what's really been wonderful is the outreach that's been happening by the community. I feel like there's just been so many check in saying like sis are you good. Do you have what you need. Where do you want to fit into this conversation right because we've been having lots of conversation about with everything that's been happening with George Floyd with Rihanna Taylor with a lot Arbery and with the litany of other black body slain and talking about what our position is and how we are moving forward and taking control of our space. And so I've been feeling really empowered by just seeing the mobilization of specific pockets happening, even within our own black theater community like there's like a big diagram of different people galvanizing. And so that's been really, really fulfilling. So just to be a part of that to see those circles kind like convert converging together and to just be a part of all these conversations have been fueling me. And I also do a healthy amount of going down into my rabbit hole and staying out of everything and to be able to create because I feel like if I start my day with everyone else's thoughts then I can't hear my own. And I think that there's been a healthy balance as healthy, you know, it's a work in progress but like a healthy ish balance of absorbing staying up to date and then going away doing what I have to do and creating in a safe unfilter space so all that to say I feel pretty checked in and feel pretty supplied in a good way. So what's the next thing. Any, any creative projects or updates that you have for folks. Thank you. Okay, so, most recently so gun and powder the musical which is about the legacy of my great great aunties who passed for white and according to legend were notorious outlaws in Texas. And it's just been really interesting to think about having that story in the front right now. I mean we started writing that piece in 2014, when my brown was killed in Ferguson and then now in 2020 it feels even more, you know, current but you can't even call something like that it's just always like it was continuously becoming more and more present in the in our society, but that piece had a run that closed just before the shutdown, and we had a lab that was scheduled in New York for May. And so that's been said, since postponed to the beginning of next year hopefully. So that's been happening and we've been working on that I've also just been spending a lot of time working on TV. I've been working on pilots and a couple film scripts, because I just feel like this is the time to focus on mediums where we don't have to be in the same room to experience them. So that's been really fulfilling and a great way to kind of balance my creative palette, and then also doing some spoken word poetry over IG live which has been really fun and being able to share with people across the country so that's been really dope. And forgive me love the last question. Which residency were you a part of which year and how has working with MBT affected your art making process. Oh my goodness. That's a big one. That's a big one. So I was part of the I am so playwright residency and that ran from 2016 to 2018 and culminated with the peace, the peace, Crown nation, which was directed by Caesar Williams and starring Sharia Irving and stage managed by beloved Belinda Hardin and so it was just one of the reasons why I'm talking about that piece is because it's a one woman show. And it's my story, and it was the most naked storytelling I've ever done it was just like straight up truth telling like this is it this my business show like y'all funny just hear it. The impulse was to because it was part of a trilogy was to start writing that piece under the same guise of okay this is a family drama about these six people and you can kind of weave the truth in somehow. And it was the more I kept leaning into that the more characters kept getting cut back. The more that it was just clear that it was just like, is this woman's time to just stand up here and just talk about her business, and you to talk about your business and put yourself out there. And so that was terrifying. That was a lot of like crying and praying and drinking wine and listen to gospel music, writing, all of it together the same time writing that piece. And what was so helpful was just the love and the support that nbt created the safe space, the conversations, the incense, everything. Girl, okay burn this nag Champa, go get you a chicken plate and come in here and let's talk about it. And it was just like this is how I want to be working thank you, I need this, I need to be able to feel like I have permission to just come up here and tell the truth. So that was reinforced by everyone by Jonathan by Shade by Alan see Edwards our lighting designer by Sharia, but just every single person who was president so I thank nbt for that and that has stayed with me no more filters. Wonderful wonderful just an affirming honest raw experience. Beautiful. Dominique, can we check in with you now. Okay, so let us know about your accessibility and any updates or creative projects you want, you want us to be mindful. In terms of accessibility, I'm good. I got these glasses on. You know, I hate wearing glasses, but I got to see somehow so we're here needs needs are always met as long as an insurance comes through. I'm not really, I'm not really working on anything right now. Super intentionally I think once the shutdown hit for me it was like, I don't need to be thinking creatively right now right like because I wanted, I wanted some time to refuse creativity, because I think that so often for me as a director that my creativity went into the service of like capital, you know what I mean, and so for me the shutdown has really been about. Okay, well one what is a director, what does that mean. And then to who is Dominique as a person, the artist aside, the person who needs to work aside right like who is Dominique without their connection to labor, and that has been super super useful for me and just thinking about how I need to move forward into like the next space right and then the next question I think I answered the question about creativity and updates the same time. I am currently in I am not yet an alumni it actually feels so funny. It feels like everyone else is like a graduate student who's like moved on just doing their things, and I'm just like I'm still at the school. So I am the directing resident through 2021. And I think the biggest thing for me to nbt is that it has really nbt's existence has let me know that like, white institutions don't have to be anything to me. Right, but like, I have been in a place where I'm able to focus on directing I remember like I directed this reading and Jonathan wanted to have a note session afterwards and he was like, if you want to be a better director, you need to be able to convey. You need to be able to convey emotions about having your actors talk to each other and I was like I had four hours how could I do that in four hours he was like I don't know but if you were a better director you'd be able to do it right. And it's that sort of like intense rigor when thinking about what being a director is it's been really important, and just the chance to think about outside of playwrights outside of designers like who is Dominique as a director, and what is the craft of directing, because that's the thing you get a lot of places most directors never have it. And so to be able to get that sort of like hands on experience like that has been very, very important to me, and then also just being able to bring in other niggas to nbt and just be like this is also your space right that's also been very I mean, it's just it's just such a goodness. And I say oh man is a general phrase of just, I so understand this idea of this, I'm so it's so resonating with me this idea of disconnecting your creativity from commercial output, and for had and for figuring out who you are, the part of you that needs to work outside of figuring out who you are. And I think that's such a such a precious lesson to be really engaging and right now. So thank you for talking about that that's that's real. Lee Edward, let's check in. How are you doing. Give us your accessibility and any any updates. I'm Justin highly melanated. And yeah as far as accessibility. I mean I would love to access some sleep, because my sleep cycle is all fucked up right now. When I think a lot of it's like you know just from stress. You know, of you know trying to survive a plague and a revolution at the same time. Which is, you know, its own experience that is specific to us as black folks. But other than that. I'm my heart is good, and I'm happy and I'm and I'm building accessibility points for myself to really help myself to thrive. As far as like projects that I'm working on. I'm writing a new play right now. And I'm also developing a lot in television and in film. So those things have been keeping the lights on which is great. It's a great time for to write and television right now. And it's a doubly great time to be black and writing and television right now. Things could be better for all of us. For sure, but um, yeah I'm trying to imagine the future right now I'm trying to imagine like you know what the world is going to need artistically to help us to heal and to help us to move forward and to help us to organize our thoughts and our experience. And to help us have a catharsis after this experience is done. Because because we're going to need that in order to be able to like to move forward so I'm trying to imagine what that looks like in a post COVID world post 2020 Revolution world you know. And I was a playwriting resident at MBT my, I think I started in 2017 and finished in top of 2019. And yeah, that's where I'm at. Did it impact your, your, your way of working. Absolutely, I mean, MBT will like, I mean has just this place in my heart that no other institution will ever have. No other institution will ever have in my heart. And it's a, it's one of the reasons why I will sing MBT's praises from the mountaintop, you know now forever more I'm in. Because it was the safest environment for me as a black creative that I've ever been in. And it was a place that even though like when I when I. When I got my residency was it was also around the time when I first been introduced to MBT so it was kind of like a very new experience for me. And I walked in and it was like, Oh, I'm home. I just felt it like I felt. I was like, I feel completely protected and safe in here, which then help my vulnerability to expand more which then helped me to be even more creative. And just one of the things that's this most difficult for black artists, navigating white institutions is that we're trying to figure out. We're trying to do that dance of like, how do I make sure that I'm, you know, keeping my myself protected while also trying to be the most vulnerable version of myself as well. To produce art and then to produce the things that I care about. And so that becomes like, you know, a tug of war push pull dance sometimes, and during my soul residency that was the first time I did not have to do that. And I was like, Oh, this is what this feels like to not have to have that, you know, part of your brain working in the background, because it does take up space, the navigating of that. Some of that is necessary for our survival as human beings are creative survival as artists. And some of it is just, you know, necessary for us as black people. And it's interesting, like you don't know how heavy something is until you put it down and you stop carrying it. And then you're able to like, actually breathe. So, so yeah, I mean, my soul residency was a life changing experience. Wow. You never know, you never know how heavy it is. So you are given space to release it. And that was such a big part of Dr. tears philosophies, healing at the center of the art making so glad to see that it's still it's still active. Hey, let's have a check in. Let's have a check in. Let's have a check in. I like that. Let's see accessibility wise. I'm in Cali. I'm in LA. I have water. I'm care. I'm currently looking for a therapist. That's where I'm at at the moment. I'm currently seeking a therapist. So please, they're making all the money right now. If you think black TV writers are making the money. Because I can't find a black woman who's not overextended. God bless them. So if you know anybody that's where I'm currently at. Right now I think I'm in the place of I'm in the place of looking for inspiration working on some stuff for me. I'm commissioned so I'm like in and out working on those things. I'm in the place where representation is like do you got anything and, and like let's capitalize on this moment and like it's kind of the last thing I'm interested in. And that kind of changes moment for moment hour to hour. As far as do I want to make something right now do I want to pick something right now and then it's like, it's two o'clock I actually just want to go to bed slash two hours ago I was just eating ox tail in front of all of you. It's kind of like how it's been a moment to moment it's literally like, I don't know what I want to do and, and then the next day I'll write a play. You know what I mean, like, and you know, so right now I'm just mostly thinking about how I can be of service. I'm trying to extend my time to friends and go on walks and, and have some great phone calls and, and, and maybe read some people's work who like, usually don't have access to me because I'm usually so busy working. Right now, it has challenged me to be in a place of service for other people and how can I give a little bit and like take Mad Naps and so most of my time right now is spent on my sister and starting a new management company problems I give a shout out because not her manager. I'm talking about GTIL starting to talent management.com look her up, hit her up, send some donations, black women business, you know what it is. What else, which then veers into that I was the first producing fellow that they had here at nbt. And they brought me in after I had with my sister and some other friends self produced good grief at in tar and had also, you know, had produced co produced first generation Nigerian project by me so and even or G and Jennifer acaboo and others and so Jonathan had kind of that was sort of the first institution that was really brought into what to sort of see the inner workings of like how it all works you know I'm, I'm kind of used to doing it in the very sort of scrappy way of like all right I want to make this thing was put together let's cross your fingers or buy people and see how it goes and and so he kind of brought me into a sort of institution to see and what I learned from from nbt was just the sort of like how to keep it holistic, you know what I mean it for me it reaffirmed the work that I already do, which is like just about making things and bringing your community in. You know, and so by the time that I was, you know, let in to white institutions and predominantly white institutions. I kind of already walked in with the mentality of like great, but like I need you to let me like I need my like this is my director this is why this is what I need you guys to do for the community so that they feel welcome to come in. And this is what I need for you to do for the artist so for me it was just a place that kind of fortified and gave me time to kind of feel powerful enough to walk into those institutions and demand what I want because this is how you make good theater. And the challenge that too because there's also so sometimes also at nbt so for me was sitting in on a lot of interesting conversations about what it means to make the play for the artists. What does it mean for the art you know for the actors along with that journey, even what does that you know I also learned about the sort of the ins and outs of like, oh, this theater is having a harder time getting a review, or getting publicity than like white theaters. You know what I mean and like learning about all those, the intricacies of what a black all the yeah what the what a black institution has to go through just to get like the bare minimum of demand you know what I mean so for me it was like okay great like this is something to know when I'm walking into this other institutions you know so yeah I learned a lot about like the ins and outs of like the game if you will. There's so much to be learned at that table. Within that office, there's just so much learning that happens by the by the printing machine between the bathroom and the meditation room is just learning. So yeah absorbing it all. Let's round off our check in for me so what's happening talk about what's what's accessibility what you need. What are you working on. How are you, what, which residency which you were your part of and has it affected you. Many question. I'm attracted to them all. Accessibility. I am in New York City. I have been away from New York now. I'm going to say almost half a year. So it's good to be in like my apartment with my pink wall that I thought long and hard about. So I'm feeling pretty good. I might have to like dip for a second and turn off my AC and get a charger, you know, like the first world struggles shit problems might actually happen so in terms of accessibility if you see me go that's why. Yeah, but most of what I'm feeling pretty good and easy and in my skin and I'm very happy, which has been like a struggle to be that way. And it's interesting that it's happening in this time that I am figuring out what my center is when the whole world seems to be blowing apart. And so, yeah, I spend most of my time like in salt baths lately, like once every other day. I'm sitting in an Epsom salt bath. I'm pretty rigorously meditating. And I go on five mile walks. I have myself my weekly therapy meeting. I'm doing some of the things that I need to do to be pretty whole because 2020 has been a psychological devastation. So, yeah, that's, yeah, that's the truth. So about projects and updates. I am standing in the center of a lot of bounty. And I'm deciding not to do anything. So I have got a lot of commissions. I'm not writing on them until sometime later in July because right now I'm taking a vacation. I before I took this vacation I was working on a studio movie and working on TV and like trying to figure out a play. And I usually am always flirting with some level of exhaustion but this time it became dangerous. So I do nothing until I feel like doing something. And in the beginning I wasn't okay with that but I'm pretty good like being bored and watch like for some reason yesterday I decided to watch Alf. It's a bad show. It's a terrible show. But I was watching Alf. And next week y'all I will be watching Benson. I'm just making my way through all of the TV that I grew up on and like looking at it horrified. So that's what I'm doing at some point I will come back to amen and 227 and heal myself but right now I'm on Alf. So those are my project updates. That's for the residency that I did. I did. I was actually the first I am so playwright. I think that was 2013. You might need to correct me on it because sometimes dates in my mind are kind of fuzzy. I remember like talking with Jonathan and going well what do you want and I hadn't really ever had a conversation about what do I want before. So I was like I want some money. He was like okay great. So does this mean we have to pay you to do this. I'm like yes you could pay for like a month for me or two. I could write a play and not have to worry because I'm working gig jobs anyway and Jonathan was like that great. I'm like great. Let me ask for more. And listen I think that theater making is tricky and I'm going to be very honest here that were whichever institution you go it's tricky and I also know who I am as a person. And I am like delightfully rigorous and pleasantly difficult at different points in my life my career my creation. There are moments where it's like no it has to be this way but these are this is what nbt can do and I'm like we need to have continual conversation about what my needs are as an artist and what the resources are here because I know you bringing me in here means you actually want to have that conversation. So I'm very thankful to nbt that I got to actually be my true complicated creatively pleasant and difficult self and got to manifest the show that I wanted to see, which meant like y'all know we need to actually have because I did her portmanteau which is was the first time her portmanteau ever came to be was at and with National Black Theater and it was with National Black Theater that I was like okay, these are the limitations of the space this is what I need as an artist we need to figure out a way for me to write this play a quarter so that I can put my complication and who I am into the play. So it was there that I actually got to see exactly who I am as an artist and just start to get comfortable with that. And and be easy in the totality of myself as opposed to containing that because I am afraid and I got to make some complicated gorgeous work in that place has gone on so yeah. Oh, yes. Thank you. I mean I just feel like you just gave me permission to do to do a lot of things. So that was that was wonderful. Thank you. I mean, yeah, don't what you know, and as you were saying earlier like who's this for when I feel to compel to do work to say yes to to get the draft out to whatever what is that what what's that coming from and and and and who am I in relationship to that and don't make you you spoke to that as well like what am I in relationship to my art into my work. So I'm excited to really dig into that. Okay, let me get my script. All right, so, you know, it's a production. It's a production. I think about the purpose of theater, the purpose of theater, and I'm going to read a quote from an article that Dr. Tier wrote for the New York Times. And it's from the article called theater, and she's talking about why she felt the need to found the National Black Theater. And I want to use that as a jumping point into into our conversation. So Dr. Tier says, she talks about how we and the black people have allowed ourselves to be used by predominantly white institutions, unless that is confronted, the black artists will not see the need for a black cultural art form, a way of working black. She says the need for a black cultural art form is more pressing than solving white racism. So I wanted to talk a little bit more about this cultural black cultural art form and there's so many identities that we're bringing into this conversation there's so much complexity of blackness that Dr. Tier was beginning to understand. And so I just want to want to pose this question to the group. How do you see the need for a black cultural art form. And how would you define that. What is a black cultural art form to you, how have you seen it how you have you participated in the making of it. Where do you see it where do you not see it just trying to name this thing black cultural art form. And if there's anyone in particular who feels moved to just jump on out there. I'll start. I don't think that there's a singular black cultural art form because I think there's many ways to express express black culture as there are black people. I think there. I think there's a need for us to have room to express and interpret our blackness through whatever unique lens and intersection that we sit in. I feel that's important. And it's something that we should carve out in space. We should have institutions that make room for that so that we can examine the complexity and nuances of ourselves and mine ourselves to be able to create work that that's important to us. Thank you. And I just want to also toss this out here. What are some things that allow folks to feel like they can bring all of their complexities like, and we can get very nitty gritty about this is it rehearsal space is it housing is it. What are the things that make you feel like you can bring your most authentic self to a space. And what is working blackly. What is that for you specifically. I mean, I think it's about having the confidence. I don't know where it's interesting. I'm trying to think of like where that stems from the confidence to kind of, because I think like that's whatever space you can, you can do that whatever space you walk into. You know, and as someone who doesn't get to or has not worked predominantly in black institutions or black spaces as someone who's who's who's raised around my people like spaces white institutions. But has always felt confident walking in spaces and bringing black people along and knowing that oh there's something missing here I think there's this. There's used to be awareness for me it's like oh there's something missing here and I'm actually not comfortable being the only one. Like I've never been comfortable being the token I've never been comfortable being, you know so I've always had the want and need to bring black people or African people or or diaspora people with me because I'm not where I feel at home. So for me it's always been like well I don't quite feel at home how do I make myself feel at home. So it's always been slightly for me self serving. Because I'm like, I don't feel comfortable being the only one in this space, even though I am celebrated in this space. So that's kind of always what it's been for me it's like, I don't feel at home if I'm by myself. I'm the only black person there I feel at home if there are other people with me and that they have the same politics of also wanting to bring other people with them. So that's, that's at least that's kind of what it means for me it means sort of. It means something communal. And I don't know what why that is it might be because I come from a big family and what have you I don't love the solitary space I'm a writer but I, I hate the act of writing I want to get it done so I can get to the people. I can get to the human beings and then so I can share with the human beings. But for me it's always been, at least for me it means creating space where I can bring more black people with me. When you're when you're when you're talking about black people you're talking your, you're, you're, you're saying, I want to, I'm specifically investing in and proud of and wanting to share my African heritage like specifically my African heritage, but then there's this American experience that you've had. And so, can you talk a little bit about like the challenges or the tensions within like bringing lots of different black people together like, what are the challenges within the diaspora that you maybe have and then you want to speak to this too. I mean, what's interesting in that is that there is also not a universal African experience. Right. Like I'm Nigerian, and I'm Ebo funny says ebibio we are not the spirit not we work together we are not the same person. I mean, we have had our own complications and love within us working as me at being an actor and her pieces and her being an actor and my pieces right so like for me, it's having the knowledge that even within my very specific culture there it is not monolithic Africa is the most populated country in Africa, the fifth most populated country in the world. And so you're going to read different kinds of people. And so I, I, I think I got a very early understanding that, and being bicultural or is that I had a very early understanding that I need to take people as they are right and that they're and that black people have just as much of a diverse experience you know, and so there are many things assumed about me because of because of how I walked into the space and I wanted to assume the same thing out of someone else. Right. And so, for me it's mostly the for me it's literally like how do I holistically get to the person who was walking into this room and get that black person that African person that went nobody were part of the diaspora that they're from really feeling fortified as an individual so that they can walk out and feel really powerful I want I know what it is to walk into a space, be it black or be it white or be it whatever and feel like I don't belong. I like I know what that is. And so for me it's like how do I get someone to walk into my space know and and and see let you see who I am but also let you know that you belong here too. So that's, that's just something that I am that is a mission that I'm trying to always remember pre the fancy stuff. You know what I mean, and if I can just always remember that, then it really doesn't matter who walks into the space then they know that to you know what I mean. Yeah, I love I love this. I love that we're talking about the holisticness that is required and I think that's some of the brilliance that Dr. T are brought with creating the National Black Theater is like, we have to. We as black people have to think about our healing first and foremost and center that before we can, you know this idea of pouring from an empty cup right before we can do anything for anyone else. So yeah, let's keep this conversation going is there anyone wants to talk about any challenges you've experienced going from a black culturally specific organization into kind of a wider, maybe predominantly white organizations or productions or any challenges, any advice to folks who are feeling the tension between the two. Um, I think I'm going to tie in a little bit to what does he was saying, and then like flip into what you're asking. I think I hope because I really resonate with what and because he's saying when she's talking in and around communion, and like a certain kind of like, there's no way tokenism feels like an integrated home. You know, so, and I have been like for some of my close close friends. They know I've been reading a lot of bell hooks and I'm fascinated right now about what she talks like when she had her definition of integration is the anti compartmentalization and that just just blew my world. You know, so there's something about what Ngozi is talking about that gets right to that point. And I also find because of the kind of what I like to create and what creating blackly is for me, a truly safe space not only has healing and communion, but also has the back end which I sometimes find really missing, which is a certain kind of accountability. Um, and the way in which I'm just going to I guess I'm just going to say it like you know predominantly white institutions. It takes a longer time to actually be able to figure out what accountability is amidst a lot of gas. It finds I don't I don't know it's like worse. Everyone is so happy to have me dare that I can't even figure out what the art of what I'm trying to do is anymore. Um, and so it can feel a little like a haze if I'm not careful. So in order for me to continuously create blackly. I have like a core group of friends who at every step of the way are reading my work, and I have like this kid friends who will pull me aside, and will be like, Okay, so can we talk about this line right here, because it actually might be this it actually might be this, you know, so that I can hold myself accountable. So because I'm I am not only looking for healing and communion. I'm also looking to really stretch myself and my artistry and all of that. Um, sometimes I need a delightful check within my work. You know, and I have been in enough institutions and I'm at a place now where if I'm not careful people might not always feel comfortable checking me. So part of what creating blackly is for me is having healing space safe space and making sure the safe the space is safe enough that somebody can go I didn't get it. I think a lot of that lends itself to like what trust actually looks like. And there's a like like we toss this loaded word trust around a lot, but we don't actually all use the same definition of what trust looks like. And so like I, for myself like I'm a huge reader of Dr. Brené Brown's work on like vulnerability and shame and healing and and and trust. And so she, I watched this like talk one time as she gave and she broke down this. What it based on her research with the anatomy of trust was, and she broke it down into an acronym called braving and braving breaks down into boundaries, reliability, accountability vault or confidentiality, integrity, non judgment and generosity. Whenever I'm in any space or any relationship, be it personal or professional. I'm always using that as part of my compass to be able to determine if I like, am I being held in a space am I being safe in a space do I have the space love me enough to listen to me when I tell them the truth, even if that truth is inconvenient. And a lot of times like, you know walking into into predominantly white spaces, white people have no clue actually what most black people need and what we think and how we feel about shit. And, and most white people don't have relationships with black people. They work with black people. They share spaces with black people, but they don't actually know black folks because the majority of black folks that that they share space with, share, enter those spaces, wearing the mask. And they know what our masks look like, but they don't actually know us. And so, there's a two fold experience to that right. White thought leaders trying to play damage control and virtue signal, and, you know, blame shift and deal with their own internalized shame, and then try to like I have to hurry and learn what the new buzzword of the week is to prove that I'm not quote racist, as opposed to actually creating an environment that fosters trust and engenders black folks to come at our fullness. And then not, and then not to punish or strip opportunities away from black folks when we come in at our fullness because we historically are the conscience of America and we're the conscience of white America as well. It's a big reason why we receive a lot of the venom and vitriol that we do, because America historically does not want to listen to its conscience. And so, to both goes in Niso's point, like, I think there's not a conversation about like about what trust actually looks like. And so people are like operating from their assumptions, or operating from stereotype, you know, in worst case scenarios and then trying to like to piece things together that aren't actually really in service of black folks and fostering us to be able to live at our full size, but it's really more so like how do I protect myself, so that I can so that I can appear to not be whatever thing that like you know I don't want you know larger society to view me as. And so, and that doesn't actually serve us that more so serves the egos and the sensitivities of predominantly white institutions. So like, being able to create institutions for ourselves because we know our needs. We know exactly what you know our magic and our messes and we know what we we know what we look like at our full size and we welcome that it only makes institutions like nbt that much more valuable. So that we're able to create work that fully encapsulates the fullness of blackness. I think it's so interesting and so important what you're saying about trust Lee because one of the things that has remained an anchor for me in terms of the way that I'm creating in the rehearsal room and my relationship to these predominantly right institutions, and how I'm feeling like there's a safe way and a safe space to work blackly in each of my situations in each of my productions was could obviously control of the narrative that's happening, which starts with me as the keeper of the words, but then also my director. And one of the things that has been so integral for me is my relationship with each director that I work with. I cannot work with a director who I do not trust. And I cannot work with a director who I don't feel comfortable being vulnerable with, and I cannot work with a director who I don't feel like the actors are going to be able to feel comfortable being vulnerable with. To that end, I've never worked with a white director, not saying that I will not and not saying that I am against it, but in the place that in the stories that I have told thus far. And for the purposes of furthering the black narrative in the way that I needed to tell it so far. The safest and the most anchoring voice for me was to have another black person leading the ship in the space of the director, because in that rehearsal room is where all of that is being incubated for the message of what I'm trying to convey. And there have been so many conversations about what's happening with my body in this moment. What's happened to me historically in this moment that I'm saying it this way. Where have I come from. There was a moment in the rehearsal period for, for gun and powder, when Robert O'Hara was speaking about the history that we were presenting because gun and powder was held in the reconstruction era. He said very plainly, our work is this, in terms of the history that we're telling right now, where white people know it for black people, slavery, civil rights, in between, we'll know nothing, they'll know nothing about what happened to us. And the truth of that could not have been said by a white person directing the play, nor what I felt comfortable, I mean you know what I'm saying. So it's just, it's about for me, the safety of who's in the room with me, who's anchoring me, who's telling who's guiding the ship with me. And how do I know that this is going to get to the bodies who are ultimately responsible for conveying the story when I go back home for the next however many weeks that it's running it's about who has set the table. And I just, I think, I think that sort of like my interests are twofold right one, I think personally, all like, all this stuff aside, like Dominique may not believe in safety anymore. I think that like, safety might be worth investigating as an idea of anti blackness and like a folk of anti blackness right, like what does it mean to be safe as a black person, when your life can be taken away at any given point right like, there are so many ways black people can be safe, right, some of them boring, some of them like extravagant right. So for me, like, I think I am trying to find in my own practices another alternative to safety, something else that is not teaching me how to care for people in the ways that I've been disciplined and forced to think about care right, like because the problem with care sometimes is like care is also anti black right there, the care can be a product of anti blackness that the way we hold people cannot be the way that they sometimes need to be held, or want to be held to grow as people right, that's a fulcrum of anti blackness much like just like I'm saying safety, but I think to your original question she'll see for me. The idea of how to back to your phrase because it's a long phrase black. Black cultural art form, a way of working blackly. Right, I think a lot about one of my favorite theorists, Jared sexton right sexton argues that any thought in so far as it is as it is deeply invested in genuine is black thought right, I think that I think similar things about black art right and like a black cultural art form that any that any art that is fought through and made in the service of black liberation of black emancipation of black freedom is a black cultural art form right be that writing a play be that a television show right but like the ways and the ways in which the ways in which like we are thinking about right like liberate emancipation and what that means for us personally and then also collectively and globally right is a black cultural art form that we have been engaging in much like Marxism since like slavery. Thank you that I mean that's just such an expansive collection of ideas which I'm like writing down, because this is this is how we're going to get to the promise land okay. So now, last week we I spoke with every Noel golden some of the og liberators who were the founding company members at the National Black Theater who worked very closely with Dr. Tier and in developing the technology of soul so you know they come from a generation where working blackly they've got I mean it's that it's literally down to a science so they've got they've got their entry point into that. One thing that I think is really fascinating that I realized learning about Dr. Tier is this artist entrepreneurship relationship, where you as artists, framing yourself as also an entrepreneur someone who was creating a community someone who was building infrastructure where there wasn't before. And in some of y'all's bios, I can see these, these seeds of like with good grief and because he where you start with, you have the concept you're in control of the narrative you're you're you're bringing together a team of collaborators, you're opening the doors for people to come in and feel welcome and you're learning the skills to be able to do that consistently. I wanted to get you everyone's thoughts on what is the importance is there an importance of being an artist and an entrepreneur. Do you see yourself as invested in those two things I mean Dr. Tier, the theater burned down in the 80s and decided she decided to just buy the whole block. So that there could be this bedrock of financial autonomy for people to have this creative free creative space so what are your thoughts on that what are your thoughts on arts and entrepreneurship. I think, as time is going by, and as we are now in the time that we are in that feels like we've always been this time but we're locked inside. The more and more the clock is ticking it feels like, though this is something that a lot of us have always been multi hyphenates creators, maker of things. It feels the need to I don't know how to describe it I don't know if it's like a land thing or a building thing or it I am feeling the need or the urgency to feel like, where do I create a home for myself I've always in multiple ways felt welcomed in certain spaces and so good we cannot have happened without you know, letting me into his home that it's mostly for Latin X artists and I, me being a non Latin X person right so, and, and, and, you know, first generation project didn't happen less john world Rubin was like hey, here come, come, I will welcome you into my labyrinth home to have you and so you know a lot of our plays can't happen until we're welcome to somebody else's home, per se. And so I'm the more I'm thinking as far as the entrepreneurial spirit it's like where do I get the capital the courage the the whatever to just say fuck it and create a home for other people, at least for me I don't know that everybody has to be that or everybody is that, but I will say that the more and more that I am making things the more and more I'm less interested in having someone let me in their house, or even going to someone else's house, you know, the more I'm coming into that entrepreneurial spirit and be like, damn properties not as cheap as it was that but Barbara and tears doing some shit, but, but it is making me think about what does what does my nbt look like you know like I'm having those very big thoughts and, and, you know, with these we see you letters and these demands and these things I go. Oh I'm not so interested in someone who sees me or someone seeing me. I see me. I see you, I see all y'all. How do I, how can I be of service to create my own space and maybe it looks like a building maybe it looks like outside I don't know I don't know what it looks like in my own space but I think when I think of Barbara and tear the idea of this woman having this four sites that other institutions in New York did not have. And I'm thinking of what that looks like now which is all just a big question mark, but that's sort of that's when my head is up. Thanks for speaking to that I really have been wondering you know. What's wrong with me that I'm not so interested in being seen and being welcomed and fighting to get into these spaces like, what is it really going to look like for me to be creating homes for other people and I feel like personally. This nbt at home these broadcasts is like me trying to inch into how I could do that and start to play with new mediums and tech to do that. So thank you for speaking to that. Lee did you did you want to do, did you want to jump in on that. Yeah, like I think that, like, I wholeheartedly agree with my sister, like, I'm always asking the question is like well be seen by home. And you know what I mean like like, like that, I feel like that's the important part of the equation. A big for me, I feel like a huge responsibility lies on me to make sure that I'm decentering whiteness in my work in my life, you know decolonizing how I think, you know and really interrogating which parts of my experience are my experience in my work belong to me as a black American man who is the descendant of Africans and which parts are, you know, the parts that I've been socialized to think. And so whom am I prioritizing is really the question that I have to ask myself, and why am I doing that. And if I'm not prioritizing myself if I'm not prioritizing the people who look like me, if I'm not prioritizing the most marginalized, then there's a lot of self loathing that I that I accumulate there's a lot of resentment, you know that that I accumulate and it really you do like co dependency at its core right and so like I am I if I am frustrated because I'm trying to get to your dinner table, and then I get to your dinner table and you don't even know how to cook the food like I like it and I done all this work to try to get to your table, as opposed to I got food in the fridge. You know like so like I mean I don't because my food is being delivered but like whatever but like, but like, but the point is like, I can make things for myself, and it's an incredible there's a tremendous amount of power that I've found like in my just in my own transformation over the last several years in primarily working as an artist, and then really bleeding into, you know, operating as a multi hyphenate and as a an entrepreneur an artistic entrepreneur, and being able to create work opportunities for myself is a liberating thing that comes that comes with that. And I was actually talking with goes the other day about this about like, there's just a freedom of of generosity that we're able to offer when our survival is not tied to the work process. And we're able to, there's just a larger capacity of our hearts that we're able to bring into a space where we're not trying to worry about how how to survive. And that's definitely like there's definitely privilege that comes from that, but but I've also had to find like okay so if you want to stay in this career, and, and it's a gay culture, kind of career, I have to figure out a means for myself to be able to support myself when things get when things when workshops, you know, like or when things fall flat. You know, I'm a teaching artist and that is something that I'm deeply passionate about is training and empowering other artists with a priority on black art black and brown artists. And so that is, you know, for me that is a way that like you know when things were rough, I was able to sustain myself. While I was in between gigs. And even now where when work is abundant for me right now. It's still something that I that I hunger for and that I prioritize because it keeps my fingers on the pulse of why I started. And it's very easy to forget. When things are going well, you know, like why it is that you're doing what you're doing and most importantly, whom you're doing it for. And so like how do we make sure that we zero in on prioritizing our own needs and de centering the needs of of white folks, you know, and its presence in our work to make sure that we're really specific about who we're talking to and why. I'm going to jump in for a second. I'm, because I admit right now I'm, I'm, I'm struggling a little bit with entrepreneurship. I just want to like say that out that I'm actually having a lot of a struggle and I'm going to like sit in the center of my own hypocrisy for a second and go, I am somebody who likes things. I'm going to buy a leather cat suit. I'm not wearing anywhere, and it's going to sit in my closet with the tag on it. I, I, I'm going to buy the whole drunk elephant skin care line and wonder why I broke out and acne. So like I, I have really confounding political leanings when we talk about what entrepreneurship, which to me is also tied to capital. Amen. Well, and the roots of capitalism and the centering of whiteness are inextricably linked. So, and, and we haven't, I mean, I've been sitting on it for a little bit, because I also know that this is like a healing, like, this is a loving space. We have conversations about entrepreneurship without having conversations behind propulsion and reason why we're doing what we're doing and it being extraordinarily like rigorous nuanced and sometimes never. I think we will then or not creating black and blackly is a big term anyway. So what do you mean by propulsion sorry. I get it. There's a thing of like a choir choir choir so that I can know that I am worth something and know, know that we have made it I have made it. I'm not interrogating why I want to acquire that, which might lead to a certain kind of, and this is me fighting in my everyday life within my own work, like a commercial blackness a watering down of art a something that is created by black people not for black people anymore, but we've got a lot of space, we've got a lot of buildings, we have a lot of things, just like my cat suit that's in the closet literally right now and not being in his kind of self. I just, I just I guess I wish we could add more to that. Like, I, when I, when I create from for me, and you read my bio, and there is an entrepreneurship there. That's what I mean when I say I have to stand in the center to have what I am and tell you the way in which I have figured this out for myself, I think. And I actually still might be wrong. But like for me, education is at the heart of everything that I do. And it is why certain buildings erupt around me, as opposed to I am building in order to get fame building in order to get a name building for notoriety, just kind of parasitically expanding in my building without interrogating why I'm doing it. And so it also means there have been moments where I've had opportunities to create things which I've deemed I don't need to create. And I said no. In Guzzy, because he was work with me so much, I hope will like stand testament to sometimes it's like a no. Because a wonderful building might erupt from it but the reason behind it corrupt. So, that's where I'm struggling. I don't actually have an answer, but it is something I interrogate in myself. As all of a sudden you do get to a place and it becomes easier and easier to build things and you're like for what. For whom. I really resonate with what Anthony so said right and like it to me, it's always been the difference in building a home and building an empire. Right. And I think some people start building homes and end up with empires. And if we nothing from the history of this failed as nation right then like empires cannot be good things right then like an empire requires the colonization and genocide of a people of multiple countries people across space and time to exist right that there is no good way to build an empire and the thing that we should be building home right home is a very different thing. And I think home can sustain you in a different way right. I just want to space where like I can be right. And I mean like just be and I have to worry about anything. I just want to space where Dominique can just sit and rest and like the people I love can come to me and I can go to their homes. The, the, the, the, the, and I think this is the thing that the industry does right it tricks you into thinking that building an empire is building the same projects and one of those projects is inevitably going to kill you in the way that the other one won't right you might struggle to get to the home. Having a home will not kill you the way built having built an empire right and I like for me when I think about entrepreneurship. I think about the message that sort of the necessity of its abolition. Right there's like we need there, there has to be a way to do away with the way we think about entrepreneurship, because at the end of the day, to me at least like black capitalism doesn't save black people. Right. Like there must be another way to rethink this thing. I think like black communism maybe the answer who knows. What I do think is really important just riding in on it is also just the interrogation of what it means to say that word entrepreneurship in relation to what it is we're doing is really, really important. Because for me when the terms get that big that broad, they become really easy to put things on without knowing anymore what it is. This is just so I mean, just hold the notes on all the notes. Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to quickly pivot to Facebook live questions, see what folks are asking asking on the, on the chat. And then I have like one question before we round out our time here that I just want to play it right now and then we'll circle back to it. So the question has to do with 50 years from now, what kind of institutions homes. Do you want to see. Okay, just gonna put that out there let me go find these Facebook live questions. Okay, 50, another 50, another 50. Someone's got a, someone's got a therapist contact for you. Can we put that in the group chat. The therapist contact to Dr. Dr Cynthia Barnes, Dr Cynthia Barnes. However you else you saw some years. Let me put that let me put her in the chat. I got her number. Thank you. Not like Cincinnati. Okay, so that's what that's what somebody had for you. So, gifts. Good looking at. And, okay, this, this last question I'm not really sure how to frame it but it's someone's asking about like, we. And this might be an interesting question because now we're, you know, this is DQ or during quarantine and we don't know when we're going to be. America has been disinvited to a lot of other countries so this is a tricky question, but someone's asking about the mask and I think we spoke about this earlier the mask that people present that black folk present in certain area in certain rooms. This person wants to know about working globally, you know how working internationally how do you do this dance with representing who you are, you know, so yeah, I'm not really sure what the question is in that but if anyone wants to speak to maybe working internationally. What's the comment. Yeah. So here's what here's what we got. Someone says, do you believe you need to wear a mask, even when you are in dominantly white environment, predominantly white environments outside of the US. All the same. Yeah, like a mask is a mask is a mask. Oh no it's just like anti blackness global. I think people say right like and I don't know if that necessitates. I think the mass conversation is an interesting one like the boys was trying to figure out. And I think that like to least point earlier right it is a process of like, maybe understanding that the mask needs to be undone right that like, you should just be able to be the, the person that you are right to like the idea of like a permanent Dominique that is up at 3am playing with the cat is the same Dominique that's directing plays right there is no, there is no split between right, like that you should just be able to be the same person at all times and show up as fully as you can. Even in the face of like rigorous and profound acts of anti blackness. You know, anti compartmentalization that so you were talking about in relation to bell hooks, which I think is like, yeah let's like take all the screens off and just be able to be here. Lee will you happen in. Yeah, I was going to say I actually think we have a responsibility to take off to to decompartmentalize in space. Because it one it's like you know that that proverb about like you know when you shine your light you know power other people to shine theirs. I feel it. If we are trying to get back to the fullness of ourselves in the softest version of ourselves, then to we owe it we owe a debt to ourselves to make sure that we make up for love for the lost time, like for that 12 year old or 15 year old or 21 year who was afraid to be the full size of myself I actually owe him back pay in my fullness. And so that like, I make sure that I enter every space, the same dude. Like what you see is what you get. And there's a lot of that comes from like our own socialization of being gas lit right to and how we express and talk about our pain. And socialize to think that if I name my pain in public space or in this idea of mixed company that there's somehow that there's something wrong with that. Like we, we, we all know the stereotypes of like you know the angry black man and the angry black woman. And I'm, I push back against that I'm like, yes, but I actually should be angry because anger is a healthy response to oppression. Why aren't you angry to, you know, like, or why aren't you I don't do you any service by wearing the mask, because then I socialize you into thinking that this is the full size of black people, and it's not. So, it is my responsibility to make sure that I am as unapologetically myself, as I can be, I am as equally unapologetically and equally compassionately myself, as I can be, and how I move through space. And I find this like this is a thing that I take on with like younger black artists. You know, like I'm always like, you know, you know, challenging like you know, like my younger black brothers and sisters to be like, actually you don't you do yourself a disservice by shrinking. Like, when you know if you pull me aside to talk about how you're being hurt in a white space you don't have to hush your voice when you talk about white people. You actually can say that with your chest. You know, and you get to name it like how you were hurt. And I think and I forget. It's going to kill me like, I don't remember if it was Tony Morrison or Zordner Hurston. But it was like, if you don't speak up about the ways in which people hurt you they will eat you and say that you enjoyed it because you never complained. Like, I don't want to be eaten that that is just not a desire for me in any space. So if something is is causing me harm. I feel like it's my responsibility to not only speak it but to speak it full throatedly. And insist on, you know, whatever that repair or reparations or whatever it is with just as much full throat and passion. I agree and I feel like what happens is there's two planes to that right like there's the personal plane when you walk into the space, and then they have a perception about you because of the way you look and the way they expect you to sound and the way that they expect you to represent yourself, and you have to be diametrically opposed to that personally, but then also one of the things that happens to us as creatives. We have two halves we have the halves of us that are birthing the children that are inside of our own wombs, and then the half of us that are being paid, or asked to come in and help other people, birth their children. And when you're in that writer for hire director for hire creative for higher situation, and you're being presented with an idea and a representation of blackness that is inaccurate. You have to radically challenge it and you have to speak very very clearly about why it's wrong, and not just try to, because a lot of times when we talk about having a seat at the table having access being invited being seen being asked being hired being paid, then we start to do that shrinking to say like I have to protect my survival after protect my source of income all these different things, and that the services the entire narrative. And if you don't come forth and say, I'm not taking this project because it's doing x, and it's this is inaccurate, then you have not done the service of not only the mass but like you have then poisoned yourself and the rest of us because now you're allowing this thing to go out and live. And so like we also have to be gatekeepers, and not just taking off our masks. Um, I completely agree with everything everybody has just said. And I also know that in my life like internationally. I've always worn the mask. In terms of like, maybe say European internationals. But interestingly, what's coming up for me is I've also worn the mask when I was in Nigeria, surrounded by people who are all my own. And, and had to put on a mask like I was straight, as opposed to being the queer woman that I am. So, it's been also where I am in life. It is, it is, it is glaringly apparent to me when I'm wearing that mask with white folk. And I am now working on where and how I am ever so slightly compartmentalizing and masking with my own and finding that to be difficult, troubling, because of how much love I have, but also really kind of dedicating my life as much as I can and it's slow steps. It's early slow steps but going, I'm not going to compartmentalize anywhere for my health. Mm hmm. I feel like we lose a part of us. Like, I mean, like we're, it's like, we're being asked to amputate parts of ourselves when we do that. You know, and then, you know, expect it to smile, you know, like, and I mean, it's only in the last several years that I've been, you know, like I gave myself the personal challenge to like to live in both my blackness and my queerness with the blackness in 150, you know, and, you know, and also like, you know, my, my intellect in my hoodness and that, you know, intersection and like where all of that lives my Philly and my academic, you know, like all of these things, you know, like my magic and my mess, you know, it is the full size of who I am. And it's my responsibility to like to, to know my intersections, you know, know which lanes are mine, know where I can park and if there's a meter make sure I pay my tax. So like, I, that is my responsibility and my responsibility alone. So that I, I can make sure that I'm not swerving into nobody else's lane that I don't allow anybody to swerve into mine. That, you know, like, it's, you know, as long as somebody uses a blinker, you know, like, you know, come on in. I mean, like all of these things are, are important. And somebody is knocking on my door. So I have to go get that for a second. So I will be right back. But um, but you know, I completely agree with you. And so thank you for that. Be right back. Yes, yes, indeed. All right, we are coming to a little bit before the end of our time is that about four minutes here. And so this is this question has now turned into a theater game, which is in a word or two. Can you describe an institution or a home or a radically free space sustained radically free space that you would like to see established in the next 50 years. I don't know who wants to start us off. I mean, to me, is provision. Hmm. Provision on all sides. Gotcha. Maybe I should, should I just call people's names so that we have to like, just put it out there. Okay, no, Monique, I'm going to go with you next. Yeah, can I actually not answer this question and answer the first the question you asked about institutions in 50 years. Awesome. Any other questions here we go. Yeah, I, for me, in 50 years, I hope that there are no institutions. Right. I, I am dreaming of a future where in the idea of institutions and the soil that has been so deeply corroded by anti blackness no institution. So that when we come out on the other side and like black liberation as a project has happened. There won't be words to describe the new things we are going to be able to create. I don't have the language to describe it yet right, but I know that currently institutions are insufficient, right institutions institutions cannot do the work that I need and the people me right. And so for me, I am dreaming of a world without them, so we can get on to the business of making something better. I'm with it 100% because what do you think 50 years from now. A place that welcomes people to radically expand. That's the, the, the place that I dream of a place where someone can expand and go through the messy and difficult business of growth and be welcome to do that. I just love it. Lee, the question was 50 years from now. What do you want to see the established in the world, and you're thinking institutions homes, we're thinking the complete explosion of the idea of meeting institutions. That's, that's the, that's the question in one to two words can you sum up what you would like to see established in the next 50 years before I'll give you a second to think Lee and Anthony so what do you want to see 50 years from now. I love to see pluralistic blackness within a home. Where you have. I mean, I have dreams of Africa and her diasporas key keying it. And like maybe before there's a theater show there is actually any kind of con soup and then there's some gumbo and then their foods that I should know that I don't know that we're derivative of the foods that we did have. And that like, we've like, we return. I remember the way we used to actually do our old archival and that like, somehow we are sitting all together within a theater and celebrating all the ways blackness has more and become wide and expensive, and we are strong enough as a community to hold the iteration that that could look like and be confronted as it could be as that's what I'd like. I love it. I love it. I love that there's like no, what are the words to describe this space coming we don't we don't even have the words for it yet and that's, I mean that's amazing because it'll be a hybrid of amazing wonderful things leaves rounding us off here. 50 years from now. I'd like to see a space that has a larger capacity for radical healing. And for trust, you know, like like for us to really prioritize trust and for that to be prioritized across culture. What I want to see in 50 years I want to see black folks love each other radically. And I want to see other institutions love black people radically to I want to see other cultures love black people radically I like I want us to to find what that love letter looks like. And how to put that into practice. I want us to find, you know, and respect boundaries and reliability and accountability and vault and integrity and non judgment and generosity and for those to be the starting place for our conversations. Yeah, I want I want spaces where we where we don't have to flinch and where we don't have to shrink. And where we can say things full throw it and with our chest and the full size of our hearts cracked open, you know, like that's at least that that's what I'm working toward. And that's what that's how I plan to leave every space black and when I found it. The every space that I'm in is a black space, you know, even if it's not even if it's just me some means I gotta dial up the, you know, and be extrovert, since it ain't nobody in this space. But yeah, I want I want to I want to be in spaces where I'm not a minority ever. Just was writing that last one down leave the space black and then I found it. These beautiful long there. One of my favorite writers city of Hartman has this quote that she gave an Instagram live where she reminds us that Revolutionary love will defeat anti black violence. And then she poses the question to lease the lease notion of like black love right what does it mean to love that which was never intended to be. Very powerful about. Hmm. And Sadia Hartman wrote this book that has been wayward live. This is wayward lives. This is wayward lives beautiful experiment. Yeah, she's not. Sadia Hartman is my ace friend. And I love her hearing alcohol her makes me so happy. I don't usually think about but that's my heartbeat. I can't handle with that. That that woman is like, I'm gonna meet myself now because I'm done. Goodness, just blessing and gifts. Come on now. Well, this has been just it's been so it's been I woke up this morning and I was feeling this this. I didn't quite put the finger to what it what it was but this anxiety this kind of restlessness this like feeling kind of overwhelmed and going back to your question because who was this for why am I doing this why am I, you know, bringing myself to this to my to my kitchen every Thursday. And this is a good reminder of why so thank you for creating this radically free and loving space for me to lay that lay that down. Didn't know how heavy it was something before before we were something that just occurred to me that I felt that also feel as important to say to about like one of the things that I'm hungry for in 50 years. A lot of there's been a lot of conversation about these centering whiteness, right, and all of those kind of like all the conversations around that. But the other part of our healing to lies at the feet at us black men. So that we can be better for you for for y'all is black women. And by extension like black queer bodies as well. There is, I mean like I've seen things like you know in the last couple of weeks, and also just like in just in life. Where we are often agents of harm. And one of the things that I am hungry for in the next 50 years is for us as black men to get aggressive and radically repair ourselves so that we can be better for black women. And, and that we don't shrink away from the discomfort that comes from account like true accountability, and the vulnerability that comes from taking off our armor and being able to hold space for ourselves, where we can say yes, we are, you know, there are things that we are victim to in the world, ie racism, but here's also where we are agents of harm as well. And like, we're responsible for our half. So that's something that like something that I am personally hungry for, and also like spaces for us as black men where we can come together and heal. And so that we're not, you know, the ones who are leaving scars and not imprints, you know. So that so that was something that like before we left I wanted to make sure that that was that that was said I really think that there's a radical revolution that has to happen specifically with with us as black men. Thank you. Thank you. Couldn't, couldn't have said better myself. Really appreciate that. Final thoughts anyone. I got love for y'all. Oh, good. Those are my thoughts love accountability growth. Being present, staying in the moment. You know what it is. Call me Marco Paul and pulling me. I miss y'all. If you want to, if you want to get in on that. Listen, we can. I'm saying about ax tails and Vanessa talked about gumbo I'm like can we have a dinner. Hungry over here. Can we cook something and like email some recipes and get a Google doc. Beautiful. Right recipe book. That's what we did. Absolutely delicious. So thank you all for joining us here for MVP at home founders month. Addition. And if you want to share what we're doing here, please, this is free and open to everyone. So please come on in. This is your home as well. So I will see you next week. Thank you to everyone who is here. Artists, please stick around. We're going to, we can hang out in the green room and chat some more about this. Playwright recipe. Recipe book. So I'll catch you all on the flip side. See you next week.