 This is Dennis McMahon and welcome to Positively Vermont. My guest today is Oliver Person who is the Lakes and Ponds Program Manager for the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation. Welcome Oliver. Thanks, it's great to be here Dennis. And just to get started, tell I know you've been on Positively Vermont before, we have a whole new show here now with a whole group of different listeners. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background. Sure, so I work in the Watershed Management Division of the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation or DEC as you said, and my specific role is to manage lakes and ponds in the state of Vermont. And so what we do is handle all the regulatory and permitting, water quality monitoring, shoreline property owner outreach, and aquatic invasive species prevention work in Vermont's 800 lakes and ponds. So we have about 12 staff members, folks who are out either working with property owners to improve their shoreline so it doesn't contribute sediment runoff or pollutants into lakes, to working on lakes to remove aquatic invasive species like Eurasian water mill foil, which can be harmful to aquatic habitat or get in the way of swimming and boating, or looking at trends, you know, what's happening with our lakes? Are they, is the water quality improving? Is it getting worse? What are the impacts of climate change? What are the main sources of runoff into the lakes and how do we address those? Lake Champlain and Lake Memphermagog are some of our big ones, where there's unfortunately waters that are impaired, but efforts to improve water quality via phosphorus reduction plans. So we spend a lot of time working on those efforts in those lakes and in their watersheds, but there's another 800 lakes in the state that we try to get out to as well and work on the range of issues that I mentioned. And in terms of my background, I have a natural resource management master's degree and have been doing water resource management and other similar environmental work in Vermont and also outside the U.S. for over 20 years, but have been in this role since 2019. And it's a real privilege to work for Vermont's Department of Environmental Conservation and work with Vermonters and our visitors to keep our lakes clean and to allow Vermonters to really benefit and enjoy the lakes for all the great uses they provide. Right. Well, I know that the DEC partners with other agencies or institutions, can you give us an idea of who and what entities it partners with on these projects? Yeah, sure. Starting within the state of Vermont, we were in the agency of natural resources. So we have two, what I call sister departments, Fish and Wildlife and Forest Parks and Recreation. So it's Fish and Wildlife. We work with them real close on issues around if there are any lake management projects, how is that going to impact wildlife? How's that going to impact aquatic habitat? And are there any manipulations we're doing to lakes acceptable in terms of the impact on habitat and wildlife species? The Fish and Wildlife Department also manages the access areas where the public can bring their boats and gain access to the lakes. And we work with them in those access areas to keep boats clean and prevent the spread of aquatic invasive species, which I think we'll talk about more later than Forest Parks and Recreation. They manage a lot of state parks on lakes and ponds and we work with them to try to keep those shorelands as lake friendly as possible. So if there's a huge lawn right up to the lake that's a source of runoff, but it's also a great spot for recreation, we'll work with Forest Parks and Recreation to maintain that lawn in a way that allows for recreation, allows for folks to enjoy a sunny afternoon at the lake, but minimizes runoff into the lakes and ponds and keeps the water quality in those lakes as good as possible. So that's sort of within Vermont. We work with the Vermont Department of Health a lot on issues where public health and lakes intersect, specifically those blue-green algae blooms, also known as cyanobacteria. Those are unfortunately cropping up more and more in the hot summer months, and those are both an environmental issue, and also there's post-sum health risks. We work with Vermont Department of Health there, agency of transportation has lots of roads near lakes and ponds. We work with them to keep those roads from dumping sediment and runoff into the lakes. In terms of the federal government, we get a lot of money from different federal agencies like the Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineer, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to support our programs in Vermont. So there's a lot of grant management as those funds come in, project implementation, and then reporting back to those federal partners. But those funds are really critical for us. We have a lot of gratitude to the sort of support that the federal government is providing. And then, you know, in Vermont, there's a lot of organizations that are Vermont-based that we try to partner with anything from conservation districts to lake associations, which are volunteer-led, that are really important in terms of us achieving our goals of managing lakes and protecting lakes and protecting water quality. So those types of organizations are critical. You know, and then I guess the last thing I'd mention is some of our lakes stretching to other states and even countries. So we work with New York State, New Hampshire, and then the province of Quebec quite a bit in some of these either international or multi-state interstate waters, and have good collaboration and cooperation with those other jurisdictions. So yeah, I think those are the key partners. I hope I didn't leave anybody really important out. That's great. I know we're going to be talking mostly today about individual and small boating safety, but can you give us an idea of some of the larger transportation that goes on? I know we have ferries to New York State. Sure. Give us an idea of the scope of that and how you make sure that the environment is protected. Yeah. You know, I think, you know, when I think about transportation, I principally think about, you know, Lake Champlain connecting with the canal to the Hudson River, and it's important to keep that waterway navigable. So Vermont, New York State, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineer work together, and we receive funding from the Army Corps of Engineer to remove an invasive plant that's common in Southern Lake Champlain, which is known as water chestnut. And if you've seen the water chestnut done in Southern Lake Champlain, it can form a real mat across the water that, you know, can really make it difficult for boats to get through. So we keep that waterway navigable so boats can continue to move from really from New York all the way down to the Hudson River in New York City, up through Lake Champlain and the Rishi River and into Quebec, which boaters do use. You know, and we do a little bit on the Connecticut River as well. There are some invasive species there that we keep tabs on and try to prevent from spreading. And again, the invasive species prevention work, as you mentioned, how does it impact the environment. We're trying to keep the environment as, you know, productive and and receptive for native plants and native animals and so these invasives get in the way of that. So hopefully by removing the invasives we're allowing our native species our native plants and fishes and wildlife, etc. to thrive. So that's that's one way we do. You know, in terms of transport we don't have a lot of other lakes that are really important for sort of regional transportation, but some of them hook up with rivers and those those waterways we try to keep intact or at least educate the public about where there's dams or other things that they need to be aware of if they're trying to take a canoe from from one lake to another. Hopefully that answers your question. Now I know it's a very large scope but I don't even know if you could speculate in this but you have any view on how how are we in terms of the quality and the navigability and the other features of our lakes and ponds. Is there something or are there some dangers going on? Sure that's a great question you know Vermont is is lucky to and we're lucky in the DC to be stewarding some of the highest quality lakes in the country. We overall if you look at some of our indicators of water quality things like what are the phosphorus concentrations what's the water clarity you know how deep can you see. We have some of the cleanest and best lakes in the state we do have more shoreland development around our lakes and very close to the water's edge than most other states and that's because it wasn't until really 2014 that we passed the shoreland Protection Act. So that's one challenge. Overall but overall we're you know with a few exceptions we're lucky to have very clean waters there are there are some threats however we're seeing increasing phosphorus levels. In many of our lakes including these really clean and pristine ones that are that are low nutrient and what the increasing phosphorus can do is stimulate plant growth. And even lead to those blue green algae blooms I mentioned earlier, you know, and some plants aren't a bad thing you know they provide habitat for for fish and you know that's that's a natural component of many of our legs but if if the phosphorus increases significantly. So you're committing nutrient for plant growth. And so then you can really get into a situation where the plant growth goes beyond what what you'd want goes beyond what you'd see without the presence of humans. And then if an invasive plant comes along again like Eurasian water milfoil or water chestnut, it can really take over the lake folks who are familiar with Lake Iroquois. You know before we did some lake management work there in 2021 that really much of the lake was covered with a thick mat of Eurasian water milfoil that prevented folks from swimming and boating and fishing. So that's that's really one trend we're concerned about with our lakes is the increasing phosphorus trends. We also have sort of the the international or global problem of climate change. So relating to warmer summers, less ice and the warmer summers create conditions in the lakes that unfortunately aren't great for for water quality the heat in the summer, not only stimulates plant and algae growth, but it also creates this, this thermal barrier, where if you're swimming you might sometimes feel the waters really warm at top but then your feet hit a pocket of cold water. And then in that situation your feet are poking through that thermal barrier. And it's really hot that that thermal barrier is stronger. It's hot on top and oxygen comes into the lake from the wind on top, but down below where it's cold, that barrier prevents oxygen from getting down into the lake bottom that can lead to levels when there's when the oxygen is depleted. And that can also lead to release of phosphorus from sediment and in the lake bottom so climate change is a real issue for for Lake Health and we're studying that seeing what the impacts are and hopefully Vermont's contributing and participating in regional, you know, national and global efforts to sort of mitigate and adapt to some of the challenges associated with climate change. And what motivated our show this week was the the the announcement by the department of tips for boating safety on our lakes and ponds but also safety in terms not only navigation but the environmental and and other aspects you discussed and it's kind of a comprehensive list. Tips before, while, and after boating, and maybe we could run through some of those and what any making the website references available but start with I know that you started out so I'm going to sort of run down, you know, your list. Let's talk about the rules. The first thing you talk about rules, a boating safety and environmental concerns tell us a little bit about that. Great yeah I'll be happy to I'll start by saying, we look at the Memorial Day weekend as the unofficial start of the boating season surely it's it's been pretty warm in Vermont in the last week and today's going to make it up to 90 so it's that great time of you can get out on the water you can get out on your boat, really enjoy the lakes ponds and some of the rivers that are here in Vermont and that's really part of the fabric of life in Vermont in the summer and we want to encourage Vermonters to get out to get out on our lakes and ponds to use those access areas, but to do it safely and to do it in a responsible and and environmentally friendly way and we try to do that through a number of different elements. The first thing that as you mentioned is is the use of public water rules. And so, in Vermont, the lakes and ponds are held in the public trust for the benefit of all Vermonters and our visitors so there's no private ownership of, of lakes and ponds, you know, of the water that is and most lakes and ponds have some public access. We want people to get out. But it's a shared resource. And so, to avoid the tragedy of the common situation where everyone's just doing whatever they want to the detriment of the general resource, the state under statute established some some basic rules that apply to all lakes and ponds, which I can talk about then some specific rules for for individual lakes and ponds governing what type of activities and what type of vessels are permitted on those lakes and ponds and so I think one fundamental rule that applies statewide to all waters is, you know, within 200 feet of the shoreline, motorized vessels can only generate can only go at speeds of five miles per hour or less, or in a manner that doesn't generate a wake and that's really to allow them to get away from shore, get away from swimmers, get away from other boaters very slowly and once they hit deeper waters and are further from shore, they can then, you know, go faster and hit the gas on on their boats, you know, of course, with certain speed limits in place on certain water bodies. So that's statewide and that's in statute, then the you said public water rules has some other specific, you have some other statewide rules but what it was really the power of that document is it lists for lakes over 10 acres, you know, which is over 100 in the states really all the lakes where there's going to be any kind of boating going on. It lists, you know, what are the specific rules are motorized vessels allowed or not, and in most cases they are the majority of our lakes and ponds allow motorized vessels are jet skis are also known as personal watercraft allowed or not there's some specific rules about use of personal watercraft, they're typically aren't used on aren't permitted to be used on lakes and ponds below 300 acres in size. So it clarifies that and then are there specific rules about water skiing, other specific speed limit rules. That's those are the type of things that are available for the public to be aware of in the use of public waters rules to find out you know what's what's what's allowed on a specific water body there's a number of different ways to do that you can see you can search and find on our website the actual rules and go through the annex where it lists like by lake, what the rules are so that's one option. We also have a website where you can just type in the name of the lake and the specific rules come up, and at the access areas there's metal signs that say, hey for this lake. This is what's allowed and this is what's not allowed and we try to get the word out to avoid conflict, you know, if a lake is off limits to personal watercraft or jet skis. But someone doesn't know that and they show up and they've driven a half an hour with a jet ski on a trailer and they're really looking forward to getting out on their jet skis it's really disappointing for them to find out that that lake is off limits for jet ski use so we try to avoid that and get these rules out into the public and And then my department DC, we administer the rules, but we don't enforce them. And so we rely on the Vermont State Police Marine Division and the Fish and Wildlife Department game wardens to enforce the rules. And so if people see something that looks like it may be a violation, they can reach out to one of those two entities and report it, and then our colleagues and state police and Fish and Wildlife will do their best to to investigate that potential violation and take any necessary action. So you have to think about the rules and the rules evolve over time, you know, sometimes people will say, Hey, what what what used to be a normal use on this lake, it wasn't really part of what the recreation that's going on here. Can we change the rule for this lake and DC will consider that and there's a process for the public to propose changes, and for us to review those and to either say yes, we'll make the change formally or no, we don't accept this change and here's why. And we're in the midst of making a change to the rules about use of wake boats, which are relatively new type of motorized vessel on Vermont waters which which I can talk about if if you're interested Dennis. What about the idea of personal safety. We're starting now from the point, let's actually because you do discuss this. Someone has the boat and dry dock or on a trailer. You recommend certain things be done before you put it in water. And then when you're in the water and then after the water because you go through that process which I know are described on your website. So, you know, Vermont has a great handbook out there of voting laws and responsibilities that summarizes that that's available on our website. Anyone that was born after January 1 1974 needs to take a voter education course, pass a test and carry a voter education card, proving that they've taken that and put them in their boat. And then we have lots of other resources is available but you're totally right you know what we're trying to help the public understand is as voters they have certain responsibilities to recreate on public waters safely and and these are described in that that and voter safety manual but it's it's things like you have to have a personal flotation device in a boat for each member for each person that's in the boat, you know, at all times and that's so that if the boat capsizes and you're where in the middle of a large lake. You're able to stay afloat until until someone can come and rescue you or help you and you know I think a lot of people think they're strong swimmers and they don't need it but you know if you go out today although the air temperature is very hot you know might be up to 90 degrees. The lake temperatures are still quite cool 4550 degrees in some cases. And so it's it's difficult to swim long distances in those cooler temperatures so that the personal flotation device can really keep you alive in those circumstances so we really rely on those voters understanding that rule and carrying those with them. And the other thing is, you know, the the use of public water rules and state statutes say that the boaters need to keep 200 feet from other boaters from swimmers from shore and other infrastructure like docs. If they're moving at speeds greater than five miles per hour at all times and that that 200 feet is meant to provide a wide berth on the water so that you avoid any sort of collision or, or, you know, the tragic situation where a boat actually hits a swimmer which which unfortunately has happened in the last 10 years, a number of occasions. So keeping that 200 feet distance from other boats and other people in the water, swimmers paddle boarders what have you is is really important. And you know and so those are some of the elements of safety and this this boating safety handbook I mentioned goes over how to what are some of the basics about maintaining your, your vessel of trailering it in and out of the access area at the access areas in and out of the water. If you're navigating at night what are some of the requirements about nighttime navigation. And if you're doing things like water skiing what are the specific rules there. So it's really a great resource and I encourage all boaters to define that. So we have a lot of people from Vermont boating safety handbook on our website download it goes through some of the equipment you need to have on your boat safety equipment in addition to personal flotation devices we want folks to have fire extinguishers in the event that a motor catches on fire and voters are able to put that out before the boat is damaged, you know, that type of thing. And you know this. I think folks are kind of appreciate that while going out on the water and their boat is all about having fun and enjoying the great weather and enjoying the beauty of the lakes and pond. We want people to come home in one piece and be able to do it again the next day and so this these laws and safety equipment are all with that goal in mind get out on the water have fun get home and and do it again the next day. So some of the key elements of voting laws and responsibilities that we put out there and you know the state police marine division and the game wardens do get out on the water in their boats and you know they have the right to interact with voters and check that they're following these rules and address any situations where there's a lack of compliance with the rules and certainly that would include the use of alcohol and drugs. That's exactly right yeah that's that's specifically covered in the Vermont voter safety handbook but that is prohibited. It's a tough one for people to swallow but the rules are it's similar to driving you shouldn't think about operating a boat vis-à-vis alcohol and drugs any differently you think about operating a car. That's great. One of the things you mentioned now you have all the guidance about operation and and safety and some of the navigation rules you mentioned but what I'd like to just focus on briefly is someone has their boat and they take it out of the lake or the pond and you have some recommendations about inspecting things because that might turn something up of interest to your departments. Great question so you know we have many lakes over 100 that unfortunately are infested with aquatic invasive species you know the most common is is Eurasian water mill foil, which is a plant that is very successful at growing in our lakes and ponds and spreads very quickly and is difficult to contain almost impossible to eradicate and it can form these really thick mats, which are very hard to swim or paddle through which can mess up your propeller. If you're trying to motor through them and and you really decrease the quality of aquatic habitat overall for most wildlife species and so we're in the midst of a probably perennial battle to limit the spread of milfoil on water bodies where it's already established and more importantly to keep it out of water bodies where it's not and what we found is that boats and trailers are the principal vector for spread of milfoil and other invasives like zebra like zebra mussels which I'll talk about in a minute from one water body to another and that's that's been proven and so what we try to do is establish the vessel inspection stations at the access areas. And so when you when you you register your motor boat you pay a fee and some of that fee goes to paying for these folks at the access areas who will inspect your boat. And so when you pull up to the access area on some lakes they're known as greeters on other lakes they're known on Lake Champlain they're known as stewards and those are funded by the federal government and implemented by the Lake Champlain basin program. These folks will will approach you and ask you some questions and if you if you're coming from another water body. And in the last two weeks they'll ask if they can inspect your boat to see if there's any evidence of milfoil or other invasive on the boats hall on any of the apparatus you know the motor and whatnot are on the trailer. And they'll also ask if they can do that again on on the way out to prevent spreading if you're in a going coming out of a lake with established populations of aquatic invasive species. And what they also ask boaters to do and this is this is the key is when they bring their boat out of the water to clean it, drain it and dry it and the clean drain dry approach is actually required under Vermont State statute we have a there's a piece of statute about transporting of vessels to minimize or reduce the risk of spreading aquatic invasive species, and both the inspection that I mentioned and the clean drain dry principles are covered in that. And I think folks can can appreciate you if they're on a lake without aquatic invasives and enjoying the recreation there. Then you think of another lake that's infested you really don't want that that problem to spread to to another lake and so really that's the purpose of the clean drain dry approach. And the the greeters and the stewards, they have to get the boaters permission and they while they have state statute backing them up to do that it's it does require the voters say yes so we really encourage voters to allow these greeters and stewards to respect their boats, and if they find any evidence of aquatic invasive plants or animals on them to allow the greeters to remove them. And some of the really busy and popular access areas where there are, where there's where the adjacent lake has aquatic invasives, those have decontamination stations where either coming into the water coming out of the water depending on where you've been before and where you're going after you can decontaminate your boat and you're literally involves spraying it with sort of high pressure water sometimes that waters is heated to a certain temperature, which can kill the aquatic invasives. And that's the way we decontaminate a boat that might have aquatic invasives present on them and so you know Vermont's really trying to do more of this and we're fortunate to have funding from different federal providers to purchase more of these decontamination units next door in New York, they're they're a bit ahead of us and their locks he makes these decontamination legal requirement on some water bodies like like George for example, and they have better established decontamination stations so we're trying to learn from them do a better job educating the public about the importance of decontaminating and inspecting your boat, if you're moving it from one water body to another, and then implementing these inspection and decontamination to more access areas the funding is tricky, you know the funding so far has been limited to pay for these programs from the motor boat registration funds and some grant funding from the US Army Corps of Engineer. But in the state fiscal year 24 budget, which should start in July. The legislature did give us some additional funding to support aquatic nuisance control prevention measures, which are really happy about we hope that budget is signed into law soon. And we can begin to plan to use those funds in the future but really it's it's important to for all boaters to understand that the clean drain dry as has really good intentions of preventing the spread of aquatic invasives keeping them out of water bodies where they're not limiting the spread and water bodies where they're they're already established, and we hope they'll work with us on those those actions at the access areas. That's great well thank you very much Oliver. The website, can you just shout that out now, where this information can be found. Yeah, it's in a few different places, but you know the Vermont DC Department of Environmental Conservation lakes and ponds website has information on the use of public water rules that the border safety manual and what what what the specific rules are for each water body. And as well as on the efforts to prevent the spread of aquatic invasive species and links to the voter safety manual are also available there. The Fish and Wildlife Department has a great website that describes all the access areas where they are with with maps, and what type of vessels are able to come in and out of those access areas how much parking there is. So that's that's a great website, as well if you're if you're curious for more details on the access areas. So I think those would be the best two places to start to learn more about safety, using the public waters, and preventing the spread of aquatic invasives as well as your requirements as a voter to fulfill before heading out on the water. Great. Well, thank you very much, Oliver, and I will look forward to having you again visit positively Vermont as the seasons change. And I just want to say it's been very interesting and please consult those sites and very helpful people in your department. This is Dennis McMahon, my guest has been Oliver Pearson, the Lakes and Ponds Program Manager for the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation. Thank you for watching.