 The final item of business this evening is a member's business debate on motion 8250, in the name of Stephanie Callaghan on celebrating Autism acceptance. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I invite members wishing to participate and to press the request to speak buttons now, as soon as possible, and I call on Stephanie Callaghan to open yn y defnyddio ydych chi'n gynnyddio'r lleiddiadau. I'm absolutely delighted to be leading today's debate during Autism Acceptance Month. I want to thank colleagues for coming together to celebrate the rich talents, strengths and contribution of the fantastic artistic people in our lives. Most of all, I want to thank the National Artistic Society, often short on nass, who are up there at the back with us tonight, joining us in Chamber this evening, and for datblygu'i ddim yn ad raising k tyres o'r hyfforddiadau hyfforddiad gyda gyda gŵr. A'r hyfforddiadau hyfforddiadau hyfforddiadau cyngor ac rydw i'ngym Muir i'n gyntafol iawn. Ond rydw i'n gwreidio i fynd yn bwysig i gydagiongariaeth chi a hwnnw. Fy fyddwn gweithio i gydagiongariaeth judgement'u oedalen nhw'n eu gwiridwch ar g Buffalo. Oh, it'schte, valued and respected exactly as they are. Without pressure to fit into other people's idea of normal. Together we must create a society that works for autistic people, not against them. The National Autistic Society tells us that more than one in every 100 people in Scotland has an Autism diagnosis, and that's for getting people who are not yet diagnosed. Ond ni'n ddych chi'n gweithio'r eich cyfrifoedd, ni'n ddych chi'n ddych chi'n gweithio'r eich cyfrifoedd. Ond mae'n ddych chi'n ddweud i'ch gweithiwch ei styrwau i'ch ddarparu yn ymgelytiadau o'ch cynnig o wysigio'r ddefnyddio cynnig o'r autosm. Rwy'n meddwl i'r ddiagnawr eu cyfrifoedd. Rwy'n meddwl i'ch ddweud i'ch ddiagnawr ym melyddog mwy o'r autosm. with one person waiting more than four years. That clearly isn't good enough. However, support needs not wait for diagnosis, but it starts wherever there is a need. Resorts. There's a particular issue around women and girls. With research showing, they often struggle in silence. Too often, females queering a possible autism diagnosis are dismissed because they excel with mimicking others and masking the symptoms. It's suggested instead that they're just naturally shy, or anxious, or that other mental health issues are to blame. But as we know, women in our society are often fobbed off, so it probably doesn't come as a huge surprise that autism diagnostic tools are focused on the common traits we see in men and boys, meaning female symptoms are easily missed, and that's even by professionals. Last year, the National Autistic Society launched a brilliant campaign called Now I Know, and this really highlights the immense struggles and the liberating experiences of women who receive a late diagnosis. Zara is one such woman, and her diagnosis has allowed her to become comfortable with her true self. Since she had her autism diagnosis, you seem more autistic, she's been told. But behind the mask, Zara has always been this way. But today, she's proud of who she is, and she does not try to hide those autistic traits. It can also be a struggle for autistic children and young people to access their right to education. In 2018, the National Autistic Society, Scottish Autism and Children in Scotland, released the joint report titled Not Included, Not Engaged, Not Involved. That report highlights the sensory challenges schools bring, bright lights, loud noises, chaos and uncertainty, and that can create the perfect storm for sensory overload and autistic pupils. To demonstrate this during his primary seven-year, my autistic son delivered a presentation to his class, where he asked classmates to sit in silence for one whole minute, and then he asked about the sounds they heard. They had noticed birds tweeting, tummies rumbling, clocks ticking, and all the sounds we don't notice that some autistic people are constantly aware of. He pointed out how those noises can make it hard to listen, to do maths, to write essays, and how exhausting it can be to concentrate and focus on the things that you need to look at. His classmates really did understand. I would encourage everyone here to try out that minute silence, and then imagine all those noises you're hearing constantly ringing in your ears throughout every day as you try to focus and concentrate. Also from the Not Included, Not Engaged, Not Involved report, we know that one in three parents say that autistic child has been unlawfully excluded from a school, and that young people can find themselves spending vital education time away from classroom activities. Sometimes teachers are missing key training or resources needed to support autistic pupils in the classroom. While autistic behaviours are often still misunderstood as bad behaviour, understanding is improving, but it's still too common for parents to feel blamed. Your child is disruptive, are there issues at home? Too many hear that. Recently I learned in encouraging chat with a close friend about her child's positive experience of the education system. She said, My son's school put in place flexi-schooling and allowed him full autonomy over his learning. Teachers let him choose how to mix remote and in-person learning, and he achieved an A in advanced higher English, and then went on to study an HND at college. Now he's completing a degree at Strathplieduny. They created an environment where my son could thrive. We need to see so much more of this, and it's up to all of us to ensure that these type of positive strategies become the new normal. I recently visited a couple of local groups, Arch and Hamilton and Hope for Autism in Airdrie, to learn about the programmes that they're running to support autistic communities. Arch have co-designed their model and services with autistic people and families and Hope have an autistic team of people developing and delivering training for families and professionals. It's vital that we invest in and learn from such organisations so that we can build an available post-diagnostic support that really allows autistic people to excel. However, we have come a long way and the Scottish Government's learning, autism and neurodiodary to Bill and Commissioner will be a world first. A landmark legislative move to benefit autistic people. I'm delighted that the First Minister is committed to introducing the bill by the end of this parliamentary session and I would encourage the minister to pledge her commitment today too and to ensure that autistic voices remain central and at the core of policy making in our Scottish Parliament. I will end by thanking all the autistic people that light up our lives and I'll finish with the words of autistic author Paul Isaacs. Do not fear people with autism. Embrace them. Do not spite people with autism. Unite them. Do not deny people with autism. Accept them. For then their abilities will shine. Thank you. Thank you very much. I now call Annie Wells to be followed by Carl Mocken around four minutes as well. I would like to put on record my thanks to Stephanie Callaghan for submitting this motion and for her extremely powerful contribution today. It is a pleasure to speak in today's debate concerning the indispensable work that has been done for individuals in Scotland living with autism. I am also happy to see the Parliament acknowledges World Autism acceptance week and World Autism month, which has been celebrated throughout the month to raise public awareness of autism and aid in creating a more welcoming world for autistic individuals. Over the course of my careers and MSP, I have been able to work closely with a wider array of colleagues and organisations alike to help to make Scotland more accommodating to the needs of autistic people. Personally, I have been contacted by many parents of family members in Glasgow of those with autism asking that more be done to support their loved ones needs. Within my capacities and MSP, I have sponsored numerous parliamentary motions on autism, encompassing the Glasgow founder of educational deco-comics and Glasgow Mums launch play groups for kids with autism to name a few. Additionally, I have had the honour to attend events held by the groups at the Parliament, such as celebrating 25 years of the National Autistic Society of Scotland and Scottish Autism celebrating its 50-year anniversary. Furthermore, proceeding the Covid-19 pandemic in collaboration with National Autistic Society of Scotland, I called upon the Scottish Government to introduce a three-month NHS waiting time target for autistic patients. Findings from the NASFound that 27 per cent of patients were misdiagnosed, alongside 42 per cent indicating that the process had been extremely stressful. The move was to expedite the autism diagnosis process aligned with measures that already existed in the rest of the UK. Aside from various roles in which I have served being a member of the cross-party group, autism has been a particularly rewarding one. During the pandemic, I was delighted to see the launch of its accountability gap report, which reviewed the Scottish Government's strategy for autism. Following eight years of the Government's strategy being implemented, it has become evident that, while progress has been made, most of those hundreds of individuals who participated in our review stated that obstacles remained, particularly with employment and diagnosis support. Included within the recommendations of the report, I supported the creation of a new commissioner to safeguard the rights of autistic people in Scotland that would facilitate bridging the gap between advocacy and policymaking. That, I believe, will help to address on-going obstacles for autistic people, as 72 per cent felt the lack of sufficient support, 78 per cent stated their difficulty in securing local support and 69 per cent believed greater support would help with feelings of isolation. That leads me to highlighting the potential of the Learning Disability Autism and Neurodiversity Bill. In addition to establishing a Learning Disability Autism and Neurodiversity Commissioner, the bill will open up to public consultation in the latter half of this year. I welcome increased engagement between the Scottish Parliament and organisations that perform invaluable work on behalf of autistic individuals. More specifically, I encourage more robust dialogue with the groups that I have been privileged to work with, such as Scottish Autism. I know, along with Stephanie Callahan, that everyone in this chamber will join in working tirelessly to address continuing challenges endured by those with autism. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Thank you very much, Ms Wells. I now call Carol Mawchen to be followed by Karen Adam again in around four minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I also thank Stephanie Callahan for bringing this really important debate to the chamber. On behalf of Scottish Labour, I welcome world autism acceptance week and all the work in Scotland linked to World Autism Awareness Month, happening now throughout April. We know that autistic and other neurodivergent people often find themselves excluded from life opportunities and unable to access the support to which they are entitled. Until 2022, the focus of this time of year was world autism awareness. The move to acceptance occurred as a result of the belief that there was an increased awareness thanks to the campaigning of so many, but it was not accompanied by that better understanding that Stephanie Callahan talked about of autism or the systematic change that promotes inclusion and acceptance long term, such an important part of the work to be done. I think that it is such a very fair point and it is just worth repeating that it is about what changes can we make in society to promote inclusion and that long term acceptance. In my life before this place, there was life before this place, I was really lucky enough to meet and work with many people with autism. In that role I saw first hand some of the barriers faced by people and their families. I do want to stress that I also saw solutions and the potential avenues available to support people with autism and their families. What do we know? I thank the National Autistic Society for the briefing that they sent out. It was very helpful. We know that many autistic people and families face barriers to acceptance and supports in a really wide range of everyday things. People have spoken up with that at school settings where we don't have adequate facilities to support autistic learners. Social care, where supports are often not forthcoming until a person is in crisis, which is totally the wrong thing for people with autism. It would be remiss of me not to say that the crisis in social care is hugely affecting the support available for people with autism. If we can help to address that crisis, that in itself will help. That is such a professional role and we should see it as that. Advocacy services are really important and I have heard that many times in families so that they do not reach that crisis point that causes so many problems. Accommodation, as we have heard in earlier debates today, affects people with autism. Many people are trapped in perhaps the wrong settings and it doesn't help them. Healthcare, of course, we have heard that today from other members that people have challenges getting their diagnosis and also the help that they need within health services perhaps because of that understanding. What is really important to me is meaningful opportunities in the job market and in other areas. We must equip employers to support people. Another point is that as people get older we must understand so some research is looking at that. For me, as people know, a fairer society is one that prioritises health. In the chamber we often talk about that, it is about physical health, mental health, social health and economic health. Those are all crucial aspects that we would want so we would want them for other people as well. I am just a way of time but another interesting point to make is that we estimate about 56,000 people living in Scotland with autism but it is that added number of people who need the support, around 700,000 people for whom autism and learning disability is part of their daily life and those complexities would be helped if we had some better understanding. By concluding remarks, I want to talk about the Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodiversity Bill and the creation of a commissioner. I was lucky enough to visit a group in my own region in Ayrshire, in Cattrin, and they really are a very compassionate group of staff and they spoke to me just about how worthwhile this would be and how important it is to get in there. To conclude, I would ask the minister if she could give us some idea of a time frame for this because I think it would be very helpful for the people living out there with autism. Thank you so much. Thank you very much indeed, Ms Moffin. I now call Karen Adam to be followed by Miles Briggs around four minutes, Ms Adam. Thank you Presiding Officer and firstly I'd like to thank and congratulate Stephanie Callaghan on securing this debate and happy Autism Awareness Month. When I saw that I could have the opportunity to talk about autism, I was particularly enthused and then quite overwhelmed. The reason being is that, as on autistic women and somebody who has autistic children, I have much to say on the subject and it's really hard to condense it all into four minutes. I'd be very open about my journey into politics and the reason in part being because of the lived experience I encountered as a parent of autistic children the barriers in gatekeeping and negative judgmental attitudes drove my passion for justice in this area. When I was first elected as a councillor in 2017 I was inundated with constituents raising issues regarding their autistic children's care and that was in health, education, transitions to workplaces and higher education and I still deal with many of the same challenges six years on in my new role. I am under no doubt that it is a postcode lottery many times for families in terms of what support they get but it also depends on the individuals that they come across through their journey in terms of attitudes and training. I don't want to be completely doom and gloom on this subject, but in all sincerity we have not got this right for autistic community in Scotland although I accept that there are many hard-working charities, organisations, schools, individuals and healthcare support workers who I am extremely grateful for. We as a society and overall within our institutions are in dire need of radical change and a cohesive movement to see any kind of meaningful societal shift in acceptance. Like many others living with or affected by autism I was really pleased to see our manifesto commitment to bring in a learning disability's autism and neurodiversity bill to Parliament and of course the commitment to create a commissioner to oversee work in this area. I want to put on record my gratefulness for the new First Minister's assurance to introducing this bill by the end of the session of Parliament. I was grateful to the National Autistic Society for all the work that they've done and I thank them for collaborating with me many times and having meetings with me. It's fantastic to see all the work that they do in Scotland. I'm also grateful for the briefing that they provided and the statistics that they gave for our debate today but can I say that when I've had key meetings with people over the years that I've heard a few times that diagnosis is not necessary so it's really hard to think that we'll have any kind of reliable statistics to any accuracy when we have dissuasion away from diagnosis and a reluctance and gatekeeping throughout our services. Oftentimes unless a person is displaying obvious autistic traits and an inconvenience to certain institutions we often see, for instance, many high-masking autistic women who are too often completely unnoticed due to societal pressures to perform in a socially acceptable way and therefore are often dismissed when seeking help. The vulnerabilities of autistic women I could speak about for hours and even just focusing on the fact that they are three times more likely to be sexually assaulted than autistic women is a whole debate in itself. As are the comorbidities that often come with autism and neurodiversity which are including but not limited to eating disorders, obesity, anxiety, depression, connective tissue disorders, gastrointestinal conditions, heart conditions and many many more. The life expectancy of someone with autism is 16 years fewer on average than their non-autistic peers and that figure should sober us all. Maureen McLaughlin is the CEO at Autism Understanding Scotland and other autistic-led charity. That one is based in Aberdeen and they support autistic people, their families and professionals across the north-east and Shetland and they do an incredible job and I hope that we can ensure that organisations like this and like the National Autistic Society are taken along in the journey to make Scotland a more accepting place. It is vital that we support those services. In conclusion, I have hope for the future for our autistic community here in Scotland but that hope does come with a lot of conditions. I voice my gratitude to those who make the difference and for this opportunity to speak openly on it. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms Adam. I'll call Miles Briggs again in four minutes. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I start by thanking and paying tribute to Stephanie Callaghan and the members' debate this evening and also to Karen Adam for what I think was a really valuable contribution to this debate tonight as well. I'd like to also start by paying tribute to both the National Autistic Society Scotland and Scottish Autism for the work that they do, especially advocating for those individuals across Scotland. I've had various meetings over my time as an MSP with both organisations and thank them for the work that they do. The motion for today's debate has a very important sentence in it. That is make the world a friendly place for autistic people. I don't think that we've done enough to actually do that. Our public services, which at the end of the day we have an opportunity to help shape and improve, really need to look at how they can do more to help improve outcomes, especially for people who have not been able to achieve a diagnosis. I think that it was quite right in terms of what Stephanie Callaghan said four years for a diagnosis in this day and day is completely unacceptable, but I hope that the Scottish Government is also using this debate tonight to look at the potential to reform a diagnosis across our services. I've been campaigning for some time now with parents in my constituency here in Lothian around the fight that they have had to face after having achieved a diagnosis for autism to be able to be referred for an ADHD assessment. That is not routinely offered and it's something that has to change. A family I have supported had two boys who were diagnosed with autism by NHS Lothian some years back, but they had to watch their boys struggle to function at school and in society for up to six years before going private to seek an ADHD assessment. They were both diagnosed with ADHD given the necessary support, medication and that has transformed their lives and their families life as well. Given that 50% to 70% of people with autism have comorbidities which can include ADHD I think that it would make sense for those who meet the diagnosis criteria for autism to be routinely referred for an ADHD assessment. I understand that NHS Lothian is developing neurodevelopmental pathway and I welcome that and I've written to previous ministers and previous mental health ministers and social care ministers around this because I think we need to see a Scotland-wide solution to this. I hope the minister will agree to meet me and other campaigners on this issue because I think there is an opportunity to really fix this for families and I understand the concern ministers will have about new and additional referrals to specialists but it's something I want to make sure we address the diagnosis for young people with ADHD and or autism. It's so important to young persons development and we're not getting that right as a country so I hope that some of the minister will comment on enclosing. There's also two key bills going through Parliament both the learning disability autism neurodiversity bill and also the children care and justice Scotland bill which I hope present an opportunity for cross-party working on both. There are many concerns I have around how children with autism are how professionals respond to them and behaviours which within the children care and justice Scotland bill needs to be ironed out both in terms of recording of these incidents training for the individuals and actually how we have built a system which often escalates how children are responded to and I think that's something we across Parliament need to look at to de-escalate that and the training of individuals. Finally, I think that there's been a really useful debate there's lots of work to do. I think that there's many members across all parties who want to see real positive change and I hope that in future years when we do have another debate like this we can genuinely say that we have work to make Scotland a friendly place for autistic people. Thank you. Mr Riggs and I call on Marie Todd to respond to the debate minister around seven minutes please. Can I also thank Stephanie Callaghan and all of the members who have spoken in the debate for their really valuable contributions. I welcome the opportunity to respond to the points made and to highlight the role of the Scottish Government in helping to improve the lives of autistic people including through our approach to promoting wider acceptance of autism and neurodivergent people. Reducing the stigma faced by autistic people and promoting a better understanding is a key feature of our learning disability and autism towards transformation plan. The plan sets out the actions needed to shape supports, services and attitudes to ensure that the human rights of autistic people and people with learning disabilities are respected and protected. The Scottish Government marked the occasion of autism acceptance week this year by launching a new e-book on the different minds website and it was written and created in partnership with autistic adults and gives them insight into the differences between autistic and non-autistic communication styles. It highlighted the positive message of we all communicate differently and that's okay. During the week of 27 March you'll have seen some of the posts on social media which were further shared through stakeholder networks and partnerships that we've developed with services and companies across Scotland. Our different minds campaign increased awareness of autism through its TV advertisements shown repeatedly in 2020 and again in 2022. That puts autism at the forefront of people's minds building, understanding and breaking down misconceptions, stereotypes and stigmas. Different minds continues to highlight the differences via the website and that was designed with autistic people and shares their stories and experiences in their own words and busts those myths surrounding autism in real and impactful ways. I also want to outline some of the work that this Government has brought forward in over the past few years. The fund which supported the different minds campaign has had an additional investment of 800,000 over the last two years and has enabled organisations to work with employers to provide the right adjustments and support to allow autistic employees to bring their skills to the workplace. We've invested 2 million today in piloting post-diagnostic support for autistic adults and young people through a number of third sector charities. Our focus on post-diagnostic support has helped hundreds of newly diagnosed autistic people find self-understanding through a range of tailored supports. We fund the national autism implementation team to work with HSCPs and NHS boards to focus on improving and developing diagnostic services a common theme across all of the contributions to this debate. The national autism implementation team has also worked in partnership with four HSCPs to trial support and diagnosis pathways for adults with autism and ADHD. This is supported by 650,000 pounds of funding. That report was published in March 23 and we accepted all of the recommendations to take this work forward. That complements our approach to neurodevelopmental pathways for children and young people. We provided £3.06 million and £21.22 to NHS boards to build capacity to support the implementation of the neurodevelopmental specification. In 2223, we've allocated funding of £32 million via the mental health outcomes framework to improve the quality and delivery of mental health and psychological services for all. The priorities include improvements on CAMHS, psychological therapies, eating disorders and neurodevelopmental services. We published the supported employment review in September 22 and we are considering the recommendations to support people with disabilities or other disadvantaged groups. In order to secure and to maintain paid employment. As well as these actions, certainly, yes. Emma Harper. I thank the minister for giving way. I didn't really want to interrupt your speech but I'm thinking about a place in Dumfries that really is good at supporting people with autism into employment. That's the usual place and they're doing a really great job of supporting people into work and long-term employment. Would the minister agree that that is a good example of something that we should support and potentially the minister might want to come and visit Dumfries down the line? As the member knows, I'm always very delighted to get down to Dumfries and visit. There is absolutely a lot to celebrate around the country but, as we've heard, there's also still a lot of work to do and that's why the Scottish Government committed to a learning disability autism and neurodiversity bill in our programme for government in 2021. That bill will ensure the rights of autistic people, people with learning disabilities and other neurodivergent people are respected and protected. Initial scoping work for that bill was published in February and we've now formed three panels to further develop the bill, including the voices of practitioners, stakeholders and those with lived experience. Over 260 people lived experience panel and there are now 27 individuals who are bringing experience, energy and passion to the development of the consultation on the bill. I'm afraid I can't give Carol Mochan assurances on the timing because so much of that lies out with my control as minister but I can assure you that the Government is still committed to it and still working on it and we will keep the community well informed as we continue with that work. I welcome the closing, the accountability gap published in the National Autistic Society in Scottish Autism in conjunction with 2,000 autistic people, their families and carers. The report shares the view that a commissioner is required to champion the learning disability autism and neurodiversity bill but we're aware that that view is not shared by everyone at this stage and that's why we need to consult on the options including the option of appointing a commissioner or a commissioner. I want to respond to some of the other points that were made in the debate. Stephanie Callaghan and Karen Adam were absolutely right to raise the issue of masking and the additional challenges that face autistic women and girls and we work with a fund Scottish Women's Autism Network SWAN to support their work within that area with regard to Miles Briggs more than happy to meet with you and campaigners to hear what you need to do and what changes you think are required. I can't guarantee your commitment to a timeline of action but I'm certainly more than happy to meet and listen. In terms of employment there's a challenge with employment in terms of we know that employment rates among autistic people are really low and we need to tackle those inequalities not just for the quality of life that autistic people experience but for the help of Scotland's economic performance. The employment rate for autistic adults in Scotland is about 16 per cent compared with the national employment rate of 73 per cent. It's an absolute no-brainer to tackle that disparity and we are tackling it through our fair work first policy and by implementing the recommendations of our reviews of supported employment and individual placement and support. Finally, to sum up I realise I've run out of time to apologise I want to thank Stephanie Callaghan again for highlighting these important issues. Autism acceptance week sets out to raise the profile of autism and it's succeeded in bringing us all together today. I'm absolutely committed to working in partnership with this Parliament and with our stakeholders to make Scotland an accepting and inclusive place to be where we welcome and celebrate difference and realise potential. It's absolutely crucial that we're informed by neurodivergent people including autistic people about their needs so they can have a real choice and freedom about how they live their lives and as I settle into this new role for me I really look forward to meeting with autistic people and other neurodivergent people in the coming weeks and months and really listening to their experiences and their ideas. Minister, that concludes the debate and I close this meeting appointment.