 Good evening everybody. I would like to call the April 12th 2021 Parks and Recreation Advisory Board meeting to order. Can we please start with the roll call? Sue Olberg. Here. Scott Conlon. Here. Jeff Ellen Bogan. Here. Paige Lewis. Here. Nicholas Novello. Here. Dan Olson. Here. And Council Liaison Aaron Rodriguez and Board Member Manoj Ganwar. Let us know that they will be absent this evening. Great. Thank you. So our first item is to approve the agenda. Does anyone have any proposed changes to the agenda? If not, could I get a motion in the second to approve? I move that we approve the agenda as written. Thanks, Sue. I second. I second. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Scott. No, Scott wanted to second. Whatever. I'll second. All those in favor? Signify with your hand please. Bye. Great. Okay, so next we'll move to approval of the last meeting's minutes. Does anyone have any changes to the minutes? Okay. Hearing none, I need a motion to approve the minutes, please. I move that we approve the minutes. Thank you, Jeff. Make it a second. I second that. Dan says. Thanks, Dan. Thank you, Dan. All those in favor of approving the minutes as written. Great. Any unanimous? Okay. We haven't heard that there are any community members that have asked to speak, but now is our public invited to be heard sectioned. So if there are any community members who would like to speak during this portion of the meeting and have reached out to the secretary, they will be unmuted one at a time and ask to state their name and address for the record and will be informed that they have three minutes for comment. So we'll just take one minute to wait unless Nikola has heard of anyone that wants to speak. I have not received any notification of anyone who wishes to speak. Okay. We'll just take a let's wait one minute. I'll set a timer and if we don't hear from anyone, we'll go on to old business. Okay. Still no word from anyone? No word from anyone. All right. Thank you. Thanks everyone for taking that pause. Okay. So with that, we'll move on to old business and hopefully you all saw from Nikola the CIT, Capital Improvement Project list. And so we wanted to take some time just to follow up on our previous discussion about Capital Improvement Projects. And what I'd like to do is have David L give us a few context setting comments. And then I'd like to just do a round draw then of board members. And here if you have two or three projects from this list or anything else you'd like to mention in terms of what you think is a priority and why. So David, if you could just start us off, that would be great. Good thing Paige. Thank you. And since you give me a floor, I'm going to tend gentle for just a moment. I also hope that all of you saw the message about the volunteer appreciation for the month of April that the council members made that official volunteer month in April for save a lot. And as an organization, we really depend on volunteers. I think a lot of times we think about people that are cleaning up creeks and planting trees and doing things out in our park. But this board and others like it just do a great job for the city. Giving up the evenings, doing a lot of reading, putting a lot of effort into trying to make our parks and open space natural areas a great place, which is kind of a nice transition into this next topic, which is the CIP project. I know if people give up their evenings, they come here with some agendas and those those great agendas trying to bring forward areas of interest in the community they represent. Sometimes I feel a little frustrated when you start looking at CIP processes and it feels like a little bit like a rubber stamp because it's already been done by the time you guys get to the process. And I'm going to ask Steve and Dan to jump in here a little bit if I get this wrong. But being here five years, I've kind of seen it now with a five year cycle where Steve and Dan are working on projects that were out there five years ago and beyond because the way we approve our CIP process is we really approve your five-year budget through council, but it's one year that really gets funded. So when we get that one year done, the next year we really roll up those following years. A lot of times so because of things like COVIDs or budgets, previous year projects don't get done. Therefore we're still in the role of this. So as board members come on and looking for ways they can bring new ideas into the process, again I think feel frustrated there's not more opportunity to engage. So the city's been talking about this and our deputy city manager and assistant city manager has looked at the way that we can start doing a better job of trying to engage not only the boards but also the community on our CIP projects because I do feel like sometimes it feels like this is much more of an inform than an engage and we'd like to get that point. So I think tonight as we go through this process so it doesn't just feel that we're asking you just to go through it and exercise. I think one of the things that staff definitely take away is are we at least in alignment with some of these projects being so old? Does this still look like the way we should be moving or these are projects that people want to see if it's not? Again I think Steve's open invitation for you know anything out there you want to hear would be great knowing that just because we hear it doesn't mean we can squeeze into the process. And it's not just the board. I talked to Paige and Jeff a little bit too because we have stuff in the community saying hey there's a great idea could you just do this we bring a grant and money to it as well but we do get very limited to those approved projects by council the limited number of staff and trying to work through those. So we feel a little bit handcuffed sometimes on process but we also want to engage this group and give you a chance to let us know what you're thinking about these projects are the things you think are important to the community right now and if we are way off we'd like to have that conversation as well. So I hope that helps a little bit Paige as we go through this exercise. Thanks Steve. Does anyone have any clarifying questions? Yeah Jeff. Yeah so looking at it one thing I just noticed as I was going through the ones I highlighted was there's sometimes where our project number is listed for like six or seven things so I guess that's one of my questions is are those things all grouped or are there is there ABCD within I'm looking at project 186 at the bottom I'm like oh there's this hover park thing there's also 12 other things are the same code but there's also like let me just say this part b which is there's so many things on here are we sort of rubber stand I mean ultimately most of these things will happen unless someone says don't make them happen right or like what are we really focusing on right now like if we all say the things we like and I guess I'm just wondering can we come up with a plan for what what we're going to attempt to do here rather than just randomly going this park's near me and I like it. You know that is a challenge so that and I guess I'll answer that part b is coming up with the plan and that's what you know Paige I talked to through the meeting Paige and Jeff and I talked to us too and I think as I talked to city leadership what is the plan for trying to get this information and using a way that we can make sure that we're reflecting current values as long as ones that work you know if you look at the shortest van which I know these projects are there more than five years if we're just willing for those five years is that still in alignment with what we're looking at doing so for us as staff for me it just really helps to hear are we at least going in the right direction and if your park's close or not we know what's maybe a couple years out are we still moving in that in that direction so I don't know if there's a plan this evening and we could maybe continue the conversation but for me I'll be taking that up our leadership chain to our city manager deputy city manager say you know that we've taken this to our boards boards feel like this is appropriate work plan for us but there's other things out there and how do we work that into a system that's pretty much locked in the next five years or so so it's not an answer I really can give to you right now but it's one that I think we're all working on and I think this exercise hopefully doesn't feel this you know as a field of exercise because it was going to get moved up through the city process so that that's one thing I can tell you there's also no dates that I saw so it's hard to know what is happening this year if we're really only focusing on how what gets pulled off for this year I didn't see that on here I don't know if I have a actually Stephen I was going to turn it over to you for that the part a which was those projects and we have a bunch of those together so Steve and Kathy get a bunch of those so I'll give it over to Steve to talk about how those kind of lump projects kind of come together and I'm going to defer to Kathy on the lump projects because she managed there was more than I do but as far as the dates we intentionally did not give dates because what we're wanting to hear from the board is of all these projects that have been identified I wouldn't say it's a rubber stamp yes will they get done but will they get done in two years or 20 years that's a big difference I get complaints from people who said I moved in next to a park site and I thought my kid would get to play there I'm not kids in college now and so it really is trying to prioritize the funds that we have available and the resources we have available to develop these sites and figure out what are the most important for the board throughout the community and before I turn it over to Kathy the other thing I wanted to say is that there are a wide variety of goals that the city has and a lot of funding opportunities that we have there were some questions from board members about having some sort of a fake budget or figure out how to compare projects to projects it's really impossible to do that what we need to know is what the priorities are and then we'll figure out a way to fund them we have five or six or seven different funding opportunities for each project and each fund has restrictions as far as what they can and cannot be used for and so what we really want to hear or what are the most important projects and we'll figure out the best way to prioritize different funding opportunities that we have for each project but we're really trying to find out what the priorities are Kathy do you want to add to that maybe speak to the grouping of the projects yeah I think that we want to hear what to advocate for you know and and knowing and having crab backing on priorities really helps us you know have a tool to advocate so I think we just need to know you know when we go into these meetings and we battle for funding many different funding sources like Steve said it just helps to know what we really should be advocating for so hopefully we can hear from you and then take that forward as we kind of go through this whole process but yeah just real quick on the example you gave about PRO 186 that CIP is is called park infrastructure repair and replacement so that's really the park renewal program so that CIP is sort of a program and then we're able so I have it's not just one project then we identify the park renewal projects within that CIP so it becomes many projects so I kind of listed them out so that you could advocate for certain park renewal projects that you see more pressing rather than just say hey I support park renewal but we wanted you to see that there are many projects within that yeah and I would just add that the same is indicative on that spreadsheet as far as PRO 083 missing primary greenways and secondary greenways there are some projects that are in the new additions and there are some projects in the what do we call them Kathy I can't remember I only have one screen sorry in the enhancement restoration projects so that project is appropriate for funding both types of projects what we want to hear from the board is should we put our resources and funds that we have available to us toward new construction within that project or towards enhance enhancement or restoration within that project so it's it's really they're all good projects there's not a bad one on here it's just a matter of trying to prioritize the ones that are the most appropriate thanks for that oh yeah Dan Dan Wilford and certainly can appreciate what Kathy and Steve were saying you know good example of this and Jeff your comment about all these are going to get built as I look at PR 77 Macintosh you know we did the master plan for Macintosh in 2003 when the master plan got approved and so it's been a couple years since 2003 we still have a couple phases so again the same frame greenway the master plan was adopted in 2000 Steve or somewhere in that general area and we're still working on you know phase 13 so really like Kathy and Steve and David said we're what we really want to know is what your priorities are so that we can plug them in and advocate for them thanks Dan those I think as you share your priorities the why is important you know and recognizing that we do have limited time but I think to the extent that you can share the why in terms of priorities it will help staff understand sort of how our current thinking and how as we reflect the community might be or not be in tune with where it was when the master planning was done or when these projects started so I think reflecting on why you think the projects that you highlight are important I think will be helpful got um did you have a comment yes I said a quick question first um um um Gerro 083 for a rough and ready trail um this has replaced the surface is this the this section that is um asphalt this is I think to Steve is this the asphalt section well it's it's part concrete just south of of mountain view is concrete uh for about a fifth of the way and then I got Paul if it's Gerald texting me right now or not grab um and uh and then the the other four fifths is asphalt none of that meets any sort of ash tow requirements all of the surfacing is falling apart but yes that's the section between mountain view and base okay thank you Jeff did you have another question yeah I think this is directed at our board so I'm guess I'm wondering are we just going to take turns highlighting and saying why we like things or is there going to be some sort of process we want to do where at the end we vote on our priorities or is it more like everyone shares or like say you say something you like page should I acknowledge that with a nod or we say yeah that's what I like so we don't repeat ourselves I'm just looking for a little structure of how you want to run this yeah no that's a great question I mean before you answer Nicky or are you going to keep score is someone going to keep for like who's going to tally this is it up to Kathy and I or is someone else going to do that I'm curious as well Steve I have been asked as the board secretary to do the tally and I I might suggest I mean I don't know if we'll be timely for this particular process but what I had in mind is that we could share our thinking on this one and kind of see where everybody's at see if there are commonalities between our priorities and if there are then I think we certainly could have a follow-up conversation to see what we want to do about that you know is there some way that we could work with staff to raise the priority of that particular thing or few things it may be that we all have such different priorities that you know there's no commonalities and then I think it's a little more complicated you hoping we're each going to share one first or do we go and share all three of the ones we like the most so we don't over talk um yeah I mean why don't we each do two I mean I think you know we don't necessarily have to so why don't we each do two and then see where we are do you want to get us started Jeff or is there somebody else that oh yeah Steve I'm sorry one last thing remember the list that we provided are the lists that are on our radar in the next five years or so there are other projects out there you are not confined by this list if you as a board think that there are other things that are of a higher priority than what's on our list we want to hear that as well sorry just wanted to clarify one last thing which is we are not talking about anything related to a rec center like or a pool or anything like this is only natural resources correct like I noticed if we were to build a rec center or pool it would be in a park and it would be wheat Kathy or I would be dealing with that directly be figuring out I know we're not we're not proposing a new rec like that's a bigger thing like having a like fixing one isn't if we went to city council and said that we went to our parks and recreation advisory board gave them a list of 30 capital improvement projects but the highest priority project for all seven board members was a new rec center or pool there's there's a message in there okay so yeah I just wanted to reiterate that I think Jeff's not here tonight but you know those other rec area things are definitely things that I'm able to discuss that as well but Stephen Kathy within my work group definitely this is the list that they have and they're working on and that's where they're my the primary project managers are and their weather time is spent and these are products that we can fund through the funding sources that we've talked about a rec center or pool is outside of those that's that's a bond issue or a vote or whatever that's not something within our current purview you want to go Jeff why don't you get it started I'm willing to because I think I can be quick to me the dog park relocation project seems obvious to me that it's going away the number two on by airport I'm advocating for that because people love dog parks and if that one has to go away then I think we should build the second one I don't actually even use dog park so I don't have an attachment to that it just seems like something the community would no dog in that fight I have I have friends who have said a related dog comment which is I wish I had more places to take my dog off which but they're talking about places like Bud Rock but they're not going to be able to do it at Bud Rock then we should have dog parks for them and then I guess I'll just advocate for a second one which is in that project 186 the hover park I'm a pickleball advocate now the pickleball is not part of that project but that park itself does look super antiquated so I'm assuming and I would love clarification that there is no plan and actually those pickleball courts are fine but like the park itself next to it a hover park certainly looks like it could be upgraded so I'll advocate for that one too and I had several others but those will be the two I mentioned great thank you do you have anything particular about well hover park I guess you you said why in terms of the condition right it just it looks like it was a park I'm guessing it was like 2000 and I actually don't really know how old parks are like I'm not good at that at all but to me as someone who has a young baby as you've all seen I took my daughter there once there's something she could use and you know I'll go back I like that park but it does feel old to me and I know they mentioned sidewalk upgrades I can tell you as someone who pushes strollers over there there's places where it's bumpy and things like that as you cross concrete and things like that that's me advocating for one that I live near yeah is there someone that wants to go next if not I can do what I do at work and just start calling on the tile I'll jump in okay um so so Jeff um I think it's kind of funny he had that dog park as the top one because my my first question was going to be after last month's meeting um it sounded like they were deferring it because facility maintenance and facilities doesn't need the space so I was going to ask if we actually push that one off because it sounds like dog park number two isn't going anywhere anytime soon so instead of being a pick it was like basically the opposite of a pick of saying maybe this shouldn't be on the list if we don't actually need it but that would be a this more of a staff question um so my for my picks I think that the number one um for me is uh is the drainage project listed as a drainage project drn 028 spring gulch number two greenway phase three that's a mouthful but um phase two was so fan is so fantastic getting to union res and sandstone is fantastic but there's not a great way to connect the two and um on the bicycle longmont perspective we've already heard from at least 50 people who said how do I get from here to there how do I how do we make that happen and so um I know going under the railroad tracks um is going to be an expensive endeavor um but I would love to prioritize that so someone could you know bike from 23rd or so all the way down to union res all the way down to sandstone park and then all the way out to airport um on greenways it'd be an amazing way to get around the city so I'd love to see that connection be added in and then the other one of course it's another bike related one that I would like to see prioritized it was a top priority from bicycle longmont in our survey they shared with you was um in pierro 083 um the dry creek greenway trail behind uh village of the peaks um is a way for cyclists uh and pedestrians to be able to connect from hoover to the new bike way of sunset and then eventually to same frame greenway um but I think that that um that trail should be uh connected right there great thanks Scott sure Steve did you want to answer that question was I off base on the dog park should I have paid more no it's funny it's funny Scott mentioned that because the way the city works lots of things happen within a month um I'm actually having a meeting with a new property owner for the dog park on Thursday there is some inertia behind trying to get this dog park moving sooner rather than later so no okay so yeah you know things change we just important okay who would like to go next Nicholas thanks I'll I'll go next I have two and then a second uh so the first one that I want to add is pure 077 which is the macintosh lake nature area is on a construction um I'm specifically interested in the phase five part of the plan where there's the new introduction the new trailhead I think that might address the problem with the cars parked along lecture drive and you know that bothers homeowners there so one question I do have on that is how many kind of you know new parking spots can be really make available on that new trailhead it's not huge it's 15 to 20 20 cars less on the street still okay thank you for that that answer I think I think that's so you know a sizable now uh the second one I wanted to add was pure 146 uh which is the Roosevelt park improvements design and construction um so specifically here the fitness area part of the park uh is interesting to me I feel like right now the only interesting part of the park is obviously the ice pavilion in the winter and in the summer months you have the activity pool which doesn't really super adults and the rose garden which you know most people maybe visit once or twice but the fitness you know area I feel like that would be a way to draw on people you know more frequently throughout the year and I could also envision you know adults freelancing in the park the fitness center and then visiting downtown longmont grabbing a coffee maybe doing the little window shopping kind of generating some commerce to the town so that'd be the second one I would I would advocate for and then the second that I would have would be for the Hoover park upgrades so for me I don't know the park very well I've actually been there twice but what I've looked at all from the map is that it's located in an area nearby several apartment buildings so my assumption is that there's a lot of people there who you know live near the area don't have backyards not within close walking distance to other parks and so you know that would be a way for us to help you know serve those ones in the community who don't have access to the parks so my second and yeah that's it and just back on the macintosh one sorry just you know isn't 20 parks 20 parking spots not a lot but it still helps with the issue that we've had and it does seem like it's a recurring issue we keep on coming up in in in proud meetings to address some of the issues we have at macintosh so I'll stop there Jeff do you have a question I just don't want to move on before we talk about one that people brought up so on the Roosevelt park one can we clarify the little part where it says removal of the open storage comma I'm not looking at it right now it says something about the ice pavilion can you clarify what are all three of those being removed like what's that really mean yeah I can clarify and I tried to um I don't want to sit here and reread it but um that's the IP project for Roosevelt park we could fund different portions of it so if what I'm hearing is support for the outdoor fitness area that portion could be funded in that cip but I also wanted to point out that there's a phase of that master plan that is not complete yet so we could fund that um and that's removal of that outdoor storage area expansion of the parking um I think there's a monument that was never built on the corner so there's just some loose ends that haven't been completed um it hasn't risen to a priority above everything else yet but it is still hanging out there um but you know what I heard was support for more on the outdoor fitness side of it so that's what we could focus on in that cip if that's the more the priority thanks Sue or Dan would you like to go next I'm happy to um well first of all since we've been been given permission to say this I think that the number one priority for Longmont in a town of almost 100,000 is a new recreational type facility that has a sewing pool with at least 20 lanes something to serve the future of Longmont as well as all the other amenities that our you know current facility has because um I think of course through a lot of um you know public input that I think that we would see a real strong interest in supporting something like that that serves families you know and everyone of every age whether that includes ice or not I don't know but um that to me is the number one priority for our city as far as the ones from the list we were given most of the ones I chose to focus on had to do with completing greenway projects and I did you know put as my number one the first one the same brain greenway phase 13 east but also listening to Scott who was much more of a bike rider than I I totally support all the you know the connectors you know I know you know what I do I get on my bike and I go a lot of places but I'm not an avid bike rider like some people I just think that the more connectors we have and the more we you know have this greenway go through the entire town it gets people out there walking it gets people to all the little parks that we already have so to me that was for my number one priorities including that the union reservoir upgrades that because the greenway will reach the reservoir area and I think they really need some bathrooms and changing rooms and all of that which I couldn't tell if that was already funded or if that was part of this I wasn't sure does anyone see that yeah that isn't isn't funded it's on the table for funding within that pr 186 union reservoir is a little bit confusing you'll notice it's in there twice pr 10 is for new for the master plan improvement so if we were to implement the new master plan for union reservoir that would be in pr 10 as well as the trail that that were planned and the trail is funded in pr 10 but we keep we keep looking at union reservoir upgrades in pr 186 because we realize we need to keep the existing facilities out there usable in the meantime while it gets so much use so there's kind of two funding sources there but it sounds like you're you're looking at those upgrades so if we don't implement the master plan in the next five to 10 years we need to we need to keep those facilities usable in the meantime so I hope that makes sense it does I just think it's pretty obvious that those upgrades are needed you know obviously they need to keep what they have but from what I understand and I don't go there very often myself but it's a huge need to have those facilities especially with you know to also accommodate those with disabilities but they really need them and there's a lot of people that go out there each can just ask question um yeah so sue brought up um scene frame uh greenway base 13 Steve I thought that was already funded or because it's tied to state money or is that not true uh it's funded for design uh we're showing funding for construction currently in 2022 and 2023 um we could walk away from the state funding if it's not a priority we're not obligated to spend it okay that would be that'd be a horrible thing to do that'd be like a well right right but but you know what we're trying to do is ask that we have limited resources limited funding yes I would agree that that would be tough to walk away from 1.5 million that we've already been awarded but that is feasible if the board felt that that was important to do okay so I misunderstood so you're saying all of the funding was already there this is no no there's funded it's funded for design okay so this was funding for construction this would be funding for construction okay so yes it is important to list same frame greenway phase 13 as a priority for construction so you know that the board wants us to continue extending the greenway east and using the dollars available to us through state funding as well through city funds to complete the construction of that project okay Dan do you want to go sure like sue and I saw Jeff nodding his head I think our number one priority should still be a rec center and we can't call it a competitive pool anymore obviously but you know based on what we've learned COVID-wise we're totally oversubscribed in terms of swimmers and lap lanes and that's only going to continue in the future and along those lines I mean it's separate but similar the whole dry creek park thing I mean we got kind of messed up because of the whole groundwater business but that could or should have been a large park something like sandstone on the west side of town that never really happened hasn't happened yet and it's you know we have a rec center on the southeast and we have a you know huge reservoir union res on the east side and there's sandstone ranch on the east side on the west is macintosh which we just discovered is a huge need area but is very you know it's a tricky deal how we improve it and dry creek park which you know could be that kind of anchor but is not yet because it's just can't be done or hasn't been done so I guess I'd like to see something done that those would be my two main ones and along that line Jeff's point about the dog park that is on the west side and if it goes away it'll be an awful thing so I guess you know we kind of discussed it already but I guess I'm just worried or nervous that this the west side of town which is growing just like the east side could use some support or finish these projects great thanks Dan any questions or follow it before I jump in well Dan sort of stole my thunder because you have a lot of those same things I was thinking I mean I agree that we really need to focus I don't know what shape it's going to take you know I think it's going to I don't know sure how it will come up on our agenda but I think we need to revisit the need for a rec center as Dan said COVID really highlighted how important recreation is and how limited we are and I think even before that any time you spend at the rec center you can just see that the demand is greater than that facility can hold and I recognize that's not on this list but I also had that dry creek community park area as one of my priorities because I think it's just such an underutilized opportunity right now and I know there are issues there that need to be resolved but I would love to see some more priority emphasis given to that whole area and developing it out more to the vision and if that includes a rec center then that's great it kind of combines two priorities but if it doesn't I think there's still a lot that could be done there that would make it a companion to sandstone and help to relieve some of the pressure there and create more opportunities for the on the west part of town I also had a general priority around just trail connectivity which I've heard from several of us I don't know the trails well enough to select out the ones that I would raise that I am very supportive continuing to build particularly that sort of east west connectivity and connecting up the trail system with the state park I think those are really important and trying to fill in the gaps up some of those existing trails to help make them more usable I do know just from riding the trails and having to jump off where there isn't connectivity and you know with kids that's often an unsafe thing to do and is frustrating so to be great to be able to follow those trails for you know longer and connect up the different recreational areas so I did I mean in terms of your initial question Jeff I did hear I think several of us were interested in different aspects of trail connect and greenway connectivity so I don't that maybe there's that's a follow-up conversation for us with the board just to understand the status of that where all these pieces fit together you know how how we might prioritize and I think Scott you have a good sense of that from the bicycle long not but maybe we could even carry that into our field trip discussion maybe we need to go on a bike ride and explore the greenway connectivity and I think also the rec center obviously is still a priority for many of us so that probably is a future conversation also with council I also heard you know hover park and sort of attention to resources in communities that might be lacking underserved communities you know making sure that we're prioritizing having I think it's maybe it's trust Republic land that has the park a 10 minute walk away everyone should have a park at least 10 minute walk away and I don't know what long not status is with regard to that if there are neighborhoods that don't have that so you know I would be interested in following up on some of these topics if board members are and I guess I would look to David Steve Kathy if this feedback is helpful to you how you know is there a way for us to capture it that would be more helpful you know yeah go ahead David David or well I did a quick we had two mentions of the dog park two mentions of hover park not counting pages two mentions of the spring galtz two trail from union reservoir to sandstone one mentioned from the dry creek take dry creek trail from village at the peaks to sunset one for lake macintosh one for the rosevelt fitness center three for rec center two for the saintfaring greenway eastern extension out to saint first uh yeah saintfaring state park one for the union upgrades through pr 186 which is the existing infrastructure and then two for completion of dry creek community park so yeah there's there's a lot there we kind of look at that if it feels very individual but I think page kind of group things the way steve that I think a lot that could be lumped into trail extensions um that includes I think as Sue was talking about how how that does go through union I think some of those renewal pieces I think hitting those I think for us for me especially knowing that we have lots of renewals looking at which ones kind of float to the top um and I would not say they're out of line with what we're hearing from the bigger community so um I know I will let Steve, Kathy and Dan, because what I really did here is I think a little bit of a even though this is not maybe as engaged as we want I what I heard are projects I know are on our radar they're pretty close to the top what we're trying to do right now um there was no real wildcards I think the piece with Jeff not being here the the pool and rec center is something that I think is out of my scope of how we kind of move that forward but that's the pieces Steve mentioned that um those are the pieces how we reprioritize look at are we in the right track how can we kind of group some of these or look at how we leverage resources so I think that was a great conversation but how do we move that next piece it really isn't part of this it doesn't have funding or doesn't have boys and do it with the the rec center and the pool will be another piece but I thought it was a good conversation I would say all those those that score you kept Steve it's it's what I have here as well but I think I kind of looked at our like page with kind of grouping them and I I think that makes it seem a little more manageable as we have those conversations um but I'll take it back to Steve, Kathy and Dan to see if they had a different takeaway one other thing that I noticed in my tally is that there were 10 projects mentioned seven of them were new construction dog park two is new construction but replacing something that's existing so that's a little on the gray side and then hover park and union upgrades were um restoration enhancements that sort of thing so it'd be good for the board to have it would be helpful staff I should say for the board to have a brief conversation about the philosophy is where we want to put our funds and resources is toward restoring enhancing what we already have versus new construction and maybe I've already heard it if 70 to 80 percent of the project that we're hearing about our new construction is there a philosophy or you want us to try to make both work which is likely um what's your thoughts are on that I think we do have that coming up under new business actually a discussion about sustaining existing infrastructure yeah so thanks page up and Timber just said that he's in the meeting now too so he'll talk a little bit as well and I'll kind of set the stage for that one but um yeah that's a that's a good synch justi events I think some things that we talk about internally a lot as well well and I'll just jump in if I could and just say I think this input's really really helpful I'm um really impressed at how well you all know our our plans and our specific site master plans and are looking to complete those and I just feel like the input we got is that balance that we're always striving for between trails new park construction taking care of what we have and I think I'm continuing to hear that that balance there might be a you know slight like Steve pointed out slightly more of a push toward completing the master plans and some of this new construction because we've done a lot of work in park renewal but you know you guys brought up over park and it's so funny because that's the park I'm getting most of the phone calls from the public on and it is it's really you know the top of the list right now for park upgrades um so you know I think the input that I've heard is is really helpful and really knows helps me know what to really get behind um so really appreciate it great and Wilfred did you want to add anything I think I just have to get a you know exactly what Kathy said sounds like we've got a balance of new and renovations and trail connections and it's the same story we've heard year after year so before we close this out from the board members I mean I for one would like to propose that we have more conversation about trails and trail connectivity and you know I would be interested to see if others are would also like that and then I think they're maybe I'm a lumper at least tonight I'm a lumper but I think you know when you think about union macintosh and dry creek you know we're thinking about what are those anchors you know of our sort of outdoor recreation system and what do they need which I think is also kind of a folding conversation yeah so you know that might be another future topic for us to so we we can definitely we can definitely do that and I think you know for me tonight I heard Kathy's enthusiasm and kind of reinforced some of the stuff that she was working on and for me I think um that idea of that trail connectivity probably um it's interesting having ever used her own words I still probably the same thing doing and lumped out things and things that probably I think of interest to me too because I heard a lot of that trail connectivity if it's if it's a renewal of a trail that I heard a little bit or addition of new trail miles I think it's a good conversation because I think if you want good for the board to hear how all these little pieces are being together in a bigger picture and again just a conversation about I think throughout I heard that enjoyment of using our trails and how important it's being people out there so we can definitely have that conversation yeah I think Paige that one of the agenda items and it could be June July August I don't quite remember is to have a conversation about missing trail connections or incomplete trail connections with the board and so I think that's out there in the in the near future if I'm not mistaken great and and just to remind minor that Boulder County can play a role in these trail connections too as we've looked at you know connections from Dry Creek Community Park and other alternatives from Union Reservoir to St. Frane State Park so don't forget that there's another pot of money that we could pursue that creates those connections through the assistance of Boulder County great do you board members have any final thoughts or other topics that you'd like us to keep in mind for future meetings based on this conversation Scott I'd like to propose that we put it on the agenda as new business somewhere the rec center as its own piece right I don't think really we should do it as part of a CIP piece but it is it is something that we have to go out for a vote on it'd be interesting it'd be good to hear from staff and and to know what other big plans may be out there that the city is looking to to raise money through bonds for but it's it's clear that the board is interested in a rec center I've heard it a million times from people in in the city so I think it's something we should we should prioritize as one of our agenda items coming up and try to see you know where in the cycle that best fits um what the wording is that you know makes that all of that work out better than the the last attempt that we had thanks Scott I think we can talk offline with staff that figure out a best way to make a presentation of the board about that I have some ideas for other staff members outside of our direct organization maybe talk about some of the financial strategies for the city and other projects that are coming up so maybe we could we could work on something here in the future in the next couple months to get something back to you guys yeah and I'll check in with David and Jeff on the agendas that we have laid out and see where we can make make sure we have that fit in as I just want to say Scott I appreciate you kind of thinking about that other piece out there is where you know these are top priorities for us but as you start looking at what council has laid out and unfortunately mayor pro tem Rodriguez isn't here tonight to kind of you know maybe weigh until so the two but um it that's what comes into that bigger picture of what are the what are the bonding issues are out there what are the funding issues out there and really um sometimes how stung or stinging is it still from the last um goal around this with some of the council members too so um it's a good conversation I think you know let's have you a good way to kind of package it with Jeff you take that forward be a great way to at least make sure people aware that it's a bigger picture out there too if you talk about this great okay um we should probably move on but I appreciate that conversation that was actually one of the more fun conversations I've had on the board just to hear what everyone's interested in so thank you um our next conversation will be related so moving on to new business discuss sustaining parts and recreation infrastructure who is the lead for that David yeah I'm I'm gonna go ahead and kick this off timbers on right now and I'll bring him and talk about our assets management again I think this has been great that um prav has been really asking for stuff that we as staff are talking about working on even at our level and and kind of moving it up to deputy city managers and assistant city managers and how we look at this so um asset management has been a big piece in the city for a while um probably bigger and some of the operations and parks operations and in other areas and timber has been a big um advocate for that and big component for moving this forward in our group as far as determining what we have how we take care of how we fund it and we actually just have that conversation a bit today and it does play on the first part of the this this meeting and looking at Steve um I can't remember what you said the numbers were um seven new and three um renewals um or somewhere in that ballpark but I think it's one of the things that we really had been pushing on is that we need to make sure that as we build new stuff that we can take care of what we have and that new piece so a piece that has just been brought forward was the fact that when we put together a budget for a cip there's a page it says what's it going to take to take care of that new shiny thing that people like to see um is it staff is it contractors is it additional dollars um and timber will talk about how we come up with those numbers but there's a disconnect on the cip when you get to the projects done and now becomes operational dollars there really is no sort of assurance that those dollars carried forward in the two three four five years later once that park gets completed so we have been working on financial division and our um city managers say if we build this council approves it as a tacit approval that this request will be the level one uh be a level one request which really um since I've been here and Stephen Dan can do much further back look but use those level ones are things that we have to do because of some sort of um rule regulation federal law safety and it falls in this it really has to be funded we have to get it done so if you build something we're saying if you build it we have to take care of it so when it comes back it will be funded it I mean it will go in as a level one request which really changes how we had to go back before with a new park now asking for new funds that was competing against everything so I think we're making progress um we'll keep the this group a prize that this timbrill talk about how we are doing that right now and he can talk a little bit about how that level one um privatization might help in the future timbrill steps to set up true that's a lot thanks David um yeah so asset life cycle and renewal um seven I guess it was seven years ago now um you know council passed the park and uh greenway maintenance renewal fund that everybody should see on their water bills and that was after an assessment during the master planning process of looking at all of our assets across the city and where they were at in renewals a lot of things were failing so what we did is we developed a pretty robust asset renewal program that looked at all of the assets across the city of when they were built and then we took all that information we put it into our work management system which now we can run reports on to say hey you know hover park for an example if you ran the asset you know it hover park was actually built in 1990 so you know it is now 31 years old so it's coming up as it needs renewal so um as you're reviewing those CIPs too one thing to keep in mind is that PR 186 is is dedicated strictly to renewal so the projects that are being identified in there are actually coming out of the asset renewal program so the projects that are in there are either assets that are close to failing or have I don't want to say failed but they're going to fail within the next five years we're projecting so when we run that report we actually go out and we look at all of the assets they're showing up in the five-year plan and see if hey yep look these assets are actually going to be close to getting ready for renewal here in the next five years some of the other things that we've been doing is because we didn't really have a good renewal program if you can imagine a place like Lou Miller park didn't have an asset renewal program so when you look at that park a lot of the assets are out of renewal phase what I mean by that is you know a you may have to do lighting changes out every 15 years but the building itself maybe only it needs to get done every 30 years aligning 15-year projects and 30-year projects within that park so that there's kind of this constant renewal what we've seen is we actually look at all the assets are getting ready to fail and we realign them a little bit to create a kind of a cohesive project which Kathy's been really good at so like you know we're doing a full renewal now at Lou Miller park we're doing a full renewal at Alfalter rather than just going in a kind of piece melling it um but looking forward to new parks what we're trying to do really not just parks from talking right-of-ways greenways is that when that project manager identifies the project and kind of the scope of what's going to be in the project is during the cip process they actually fill out the projected on m costs and we're trying to get it integrated better where we either have kind of a menu that they can choose from or just a generalized cost of how much it should cost per acre based on a set number of amenities and then the project managers can take that put it into the cip process and then as we move through to the park getting completed what we will do then on the operating budget side is I will go back to look at that cip which was an approved cip through council so what we're saying and we're hearing from leadership is that if that cip is approved at that same time you're also approving those operating dollars that are associated with that so that's kind of our catalyst if you will to say hey look this cip was approved four years ago with this number with this number of dollars for funding now I can go into our one-year operating budget process put in some sort of you know inflationary value in there usually we use three percent and say okay these are the number of this is the amount that we're going to need to get maintained this system going forward um I think that was everything is there any questions on that so do you do you have to go through the capital improvement process I mean I'm maybe just trying to understand how you're structuring this so you're trying to set it up so you don't necessarily have to go through the capital improvement process for every um for this ongoing sort of maintenance and upgrades or you still do no we still do yes well um yes anything for renewal where you try to go through the cip process so the way we do that now though is we actually report on what assets we're expecting to see fail within a five-year period and then developing either projects you know that could just be we're going to renew all of Lou Miller Park um a couple years from now we actually have a bunch of lighting that's going to fail at the same time so then we will do a lighting renewal project at multiple locations throughout the city but yes that's all through the cip process and a lot of those projects renewal projects don't really have an additional operating cost associated with it some things do but for the most part they don't really what we're talking about is anything new coming online we want to make sure that one the sheets are complete that are associated with that cip when that project matter puts it in for operating budget so that we can go back and ensure that that project actually has the funds available to maintain it once it's built so yeah page I think what I you know I was trying to get the beginning is that Steve and Kathy have always done a good job of doing the cip page that documents what the cost should be timber gives them that everybody build a park of acres that many acres requires this many dollars um or this much staffing but what was happening was that disconnect because by the time timber got around to doing the O&M request it was not like with this meeting it was going up and having to compete against all the new shiny stuff which is can be hard sometimes so this actually keeps it that link to that original request and says this was already approved um therefore we need to maintain what we already have before we do something new and shining so I think we're making some good progress there um the other thing I know timber gave a a good overview but I don't know Kathy wants to jump in and talk about how this kind of plays into um how her projects lay out or she has any thoughts that she wants to share the board on this portion of it well I can jump in I think timber did a pretty good job kind of talking about how we just link the two the asset management and the park renewal pro program are so linked and we work together and you know I guess the way I look at it is you know asset management can be one-offs and can be taken care of in O&M if it's a a bench or you know a roof that or painting railings or things like that that's one way to handle it but then as things build like you see at hoover park or loomiller park it's where we can kind of look at look at a park and go gee it's 30 years old there's multiple things that need to be taken care of at that park so it's a good time to put it in a CIT rather than have it hit the O&M budget so hard and really tackle it as a renewal project rather than just consider it maintenance but some of the asset management is completely handled in in operating and maintenance on an annual basis so it's it's kind of this you know linked effort that there's multiple ways to handle it and timber brought up the lighting you know maybe maybe we don't tackle one park but we look at lighting system-wide because that's grown to a to a bigger effort that would warrant a CIT so so I don't know if that helps but I think timber explained it pretty well yeah and the other thing we've added to our asset renewal program over the last couple years is we had the renewal piece which is I want to replace this playground we're going to replace the playground well we've also added now the refurbished piece so like tennis courts it's a pretty expensive endeavor to repaint a tennis court so we've added in now when are we expecting to paint repaint tennis courts and that we can fund through operating dollars as long-time requests or we can fund it through parking greenway maintenance requests which comes from the $2 fee over the operating budget side but then there are we do have funding set aside for projects to just come up through the year small painting projects irrigation repairs light you know light bulbs fail irrigation heads break all of that type of activity so David do you guys feel like and timber because I know part of this is getting sustained funding for ongoing maintenance you know and making sure that you you know you're trying to create mechanisms to tie new projects to you know ongoing funding for that I mean in my work we have you know endowment for properties and you probably have that too on the conservation easement side but are there any other funding mechanisms that you guys need or are looking into to make sure that there is some kind of funding like a certain amount set aside always to be tied to sort of asset management timber you want to talk about because timber is the one that really getting back to Timber and Kathy they worked on some of the original um numbers to come up about how we fund these things there's another piece though because we are a bigger group in this our parks that Dan might want to talk about his open space program and more that ongoing maintaining natural areas and perpetuity as well and how we fund that because that is a different funding source but um before I go to Dana let Timber jump in and see how he feels that we're doing with our ongoing um budget but our funding sources and if that's sufficient because we are going to be looking at here in the next year or so yeah I think our ongoing operations budget every year has either been slightly on target or just under spent so I think the conversation we were having now is we do have a lot of projects out there for renewal and it really comes into a capacity piece um it's do we have the people that can manage those projects I think that's where we're running into some issues now is do we have we have all these great projects out there call the shovel ready projects if you will it's just having the number of people to manage all those projects it's getting it's getting kind of a struggle all right thank you Timber um Kate Paige did you have another question on that one or Kathy I was just going to see if anybody else had a question Kathy did you have something well I was just going to add that you know just to answer that question that park and greenway maintenance fee fund is really that that source that we sought out and got approval for in 2014 the $2 fee that's on your utility bill um and that's really what launched the park renewal program but it can also fund just on m on you know as we add at park so I think you know as as we grow and you're seeing a lot of new park projects timbers you know expecting a lot of that to come online um we'll have to find that balance between cip park renewal projects um which are really expensive you know if we're and I think timbers always looking at and myself as well you know when we dive into something like Clark's centennial park which could be a renewal similar in nature to garden acres which is a very big expensive project um we're looking to use that fund that park and greenway maintenance fund and having the cash flow to do these park renewal projects as well as find that balance of o and m for new parks coming online um eventually it's probably not going to be enough right now it's enough because we haven't seen those parks new parks come online and we haven't had the staff to really you know roll out those projects I've been doing a lot of projects um but also need to work on new so so I think um time will tell if we if if that funding source is going to be sustainable or or not you know as we bring as we try to find that balance well one thing that's really interesting too is when you map out all the assets that we have in the system um the graph really follows kind of a wave pattern because we if pretty long you lived in the long lot there has been waves of development that have come in and with development you there's usually new parks that come online so you have like this big bump around 90 through 2006 and there's just just this huge well all those assets were built at the same time so guess what they're kind of all going to fail at the same time too so finding the balance of when we spread those out to level out when we spend funding on renewal and then you have big projects that happen like you know Kathy just did garden acres renewal Clarkson to you know renewal actually during this this current cip dry creek park is hitting its 20 year in 2026 which is currently in the five year cip plan so we have some things at dry creek park that are scheduled for renewal already yeah and just to be clear you know that that fund is a supplement to the general fund so timbers budget is primarily general fund and so this is a supplement so um whether or not it's sustainable depends on how the general fund is doing and so that's kind of why it's it's always going to be a bit of an unknown great thanks that was really helpful so Paige do you mind if I have Dan jump in real you might have Dan real talk about the space program but you know the open space program is a totally different animal because we don't have the crazy infrastructure associated with um similar in aspects of a developed park system fortunately for us many of our open space properties are under an agricultural lease and we count on those tenants to provide the machinery and the equipment um and some of the assets you know to accommodate those properties we also have the ability in the agricultural leases to take their revenues that that are being generated to us and put those back into the property so if we have a head gate I have the ability to you know use some of those leases to replace those replace some fencing a lot of that stuff is incorporated into the assets of the property so it's a little bit it's a significant different animal from that perspective weed management and ongoing maintenance there Dan well again as we maintain again as we grab properties and it's not just open space properties of the properties that some of the utilities are using you know obviously we have a responsibility to maintain the vegetation so as those new properties come on come online we need the additional resources similar to timber but not to the degree um because again from timber's perspective in the asset management you know we're talking about vegetative management which is and weed control which is you know from a fiscal perspective significantly less and Stan great okay any anything else on this topic okay if not um Jess is not here tonight but I do want to talk about we have in the past the board has done field trips I think we would like to try to do that if conditions allow this year and so wanted to have at least a brief conversation about whether folks would be interested in pursuing that what time of the year if there's a specific month or month that is best and then what kinds of locations you might be interested in visiting or if there's a theme that you would be interested in um I will throw out that I do think it would be and I do think David you and Jeff and I talked about this combining the sort of trail conversation with you know visiting some of the trails and looking at connectivity so I would throw that out there as one option for a field trip and I'm flexible and where that would start and end but you know we could do a bike trip or a walking trip or whatever works best for people other idea yeah I'm in favor of the bike trip but I have another idea except I think you guys did it before I was on the board in which case that's silly which is I've only been to button rock once and I barely know any of it and I'm very interested in learning more about that since it sounds like a very popular asset but has already been a field trip there maybe just the year before I joined the board there was one I just wasn't able to go on it either I think it was might have been before I joined Dan did you go on it yes and it was way cool we got to go inside the dam which was way cool or see the tunnel underneath and then it was kind of a what happened after the flood sort of tour and it was interesting and city council was invited and but there's a lot of other places so I'm not sure yeah you know I feel like I could go check it out on my own with like someone can give me a little you should go look at this we can work with you to make sure that our board members get a chance to see some of the stuff up there too so if that's not the top priority button rock is something we can work with our rangers and stuff to maybe make sure you get a chance to we could check out the connectivity from a bike ride starting at button rock and then try to make it all the same brand park we're working on that one that's the right direction downhill well for a reason e-bikes okay other other ideas the button rock idea came to us from staff as I recall is there anything now David or Jeff I guess Jeff's not here I mean is there something you guys like to show off the whole you know resilient saint brain is there a tour of all that or I'm just throwing something out I don't know no I think it's a great I think it's a great kind of closing that loop because we did take proud and council up there and that's where we kind of pushed the button rock master plan I think as people saw jay b freil as a ranger up there what he was doing with the increased use with all the dog use council really said you need to do something with this to help you know manage his property so now Danielle's been working on the button rock master plan COVID slowed down that process a little bit so it might be a nice way to do once you wrap up that master plan and kind of say here's where we started and here's where we're at so I would say this year at this time I don't think there's a highlight we could hit but that'd be a great way to kind of close that loop when we get maybe that master plan or something done Dan I think it's a great idea well that no I was asking if there's something other than button rock that you want to show off you know something like I said the you know resilience saying brain is there is are we at a good spot now it seems like not quite but or something out at union or something at macintosh to understand the problems there or etc it's hard I guess from my standpoint it's hard to pick a park I mean I like the idea of getting on a bike and travel into as many as possible but I'm not sure how practical that is so I think one of the things that that could do is you we could highlight some if we're again I'll wait for the board staff they want to do a a hiking biking what what works for people and how that works but I think highlight some of those new trail connections and maybe looking where those gaps are lay at and talking about where you could get from here you could you could hit quite a few of those you from macintosh to whatever part Tom we wanted to do this on but there's ways we could really hit some of those highlights I think if we did a combination of a hiker bike tour of the trails top connectivity we could talk about some of the parks along that as well but macintosh is one that we could talk about unions when we talk about and all those are are kind of tied to our trail system Steve do you have any thoughts on that again going along RSVP out to the east we had also at some point talked about Dickens farm park but I you know was thinking that that could be part of a trail part of that trails yep exactly tubing tubing right tubing um yeah no i'm not tubing um yeah yeah so I guess it's really um uh a desire of the board whether you would like to see something celebrate a completed project or view future projects or gaps in our our system and we could do both doing a bike tour to view gaps in our trail system seemed somewhat problematic because there's nothing to ride on because there's a gap there um so that is uh there's challenges of that we can certainly do some stops around the city off of a van and walk out and look at some different trail gaps I find gaps easily identified on uh google earth or you know a big map but I happen to know the city pretty well off of a burial um so really it I think it'd be great to go up and see Dickens and CRSVP and see all the work that we've been working out for the past seven eight years and that would be a I could talk about that stuff for hours and hours I'm still waiting to hear about our national APWA award application for Dickens and I'm just good news I suppose I'm hoping to hear the next couple weeks so by May hopefully we're celebrating that at the the next proud meeting but um yeah it's just a strategy do you want to see things that are uncompleted do you want to see things that are completed and awesome also like how much time do we have to dedicate for this and with COVID are we really all riding in one van together and think like the biking thing is we can all be outside um but I do think like you know a two-hour thing I can do I can't do a five-hour half-day thing there's no way I think in a two-hour thing I again we'll leave this we can kind of leave it maybe the owner decided here about if we have he wants to wrap this up on this one but um I do think that ability to look at places like Dickens and Steve I think you know your ability to use Google Earth and kind of know where these are but to talk about directly from how do we from here to there doesn't mean you have to drive to that gap but you start talking about those long-term planning visions that you might have as you kind of move you know through our system and look at celebrate some of those areas be it the the spring ghost trail I could see that Dickens the spring Dickens to almost union could be something and that we could do that get done in a couple hours and celebrate some new trails talk about the gaps and where these new trails will connect to once those other pieces tie in and do a little bit celebrating but there's a pretty safe route from Dickens to Steven Day Park even without the spring phase three connection if we were to use the trail on the north side of 119 over to the bike lands and kind of line road down 26 and then using the new spring ghost trail so that would be a doable ride for a group of people this size right and I'm thinking Steve on the long the way we can talk about Costco we can talk about Erwin Thomas the grabbing mining operations and impact open space and park properties swing our way up to you know spring gulfs talk about all the development around union reservoir and those opportunities you know on the way back stop at left hand and have a cocktail while we're looking over at the new RSVP section I was hoping the concierge would pick us up at Steven Day but we'll see well we could do that too but you know again we can show you you know the original phase one of RSVP out at sandstone and look at the wildlife and the craziness that's going on out there you know and how we've used route wise that there's a ton of stuff you that we would love to show you again it's you know there are certainly limitations on your days and the numbers of hours but you know if you let staff do it well we can camp out for the week I have to say I really like that idea I like that you get on bikes I know that I had been on you know some really excellent field trips with the board they are so worthwhile just being you know right there experiencing it so what you've all just sort of described this as the last connection I think it'd be really a worthwhile trip to do I think it'd be really good and and I don't know like I went and took a peek behind left hand that area that's closed off that part of the bike path I know that's that's not so much the city project that's more the field of in I mean whatever I'm not sure it's a city project it's a city project being funded by by Corvarn engineers but yeah it's a city project that's not a core project yeah that's okay but that's really that was really interesting I kind of snuck behind the lines I'm sorry to and love to have more explanation because it was exactly and that mobile home park behind there if I understand has been sold yes to a developer no another mobile home park company okay well what is I thought there was a new big development right in that area there was in the in that area there's nothing right there slated for development just to the west west north of Colorado materials there's that parcel that's full of construction equipment that's up slated for development right when west up the river that's later for development the mobile home park changed hands it was an unfortunate article times call where they advertised the mobile home park being changed from one mobile home park company in California to another in California they took a photograph of a redevelopment sign the only redevelopment was us replanting the small not bigger than this room lots that we purchased from them to do the RSVP project we had to replat some things legally to make sure that our property is separate but there's no plans for redevelopment at this point in time of the same frame mobile home park all right because I was concerned but I saw that very concerned and so regardless of how this goes I'm happy to take meet you over left hand for a beer and chat with you about the the project anytime let me know that'd be great okay so I wonder in terms of rather than trying to do scheduling now would it be possible to do like a little survey of board members in terms of like months and like time periods sounds like a roughly two hour time period would work can we do that as follow-up or I mean in the past you David I'm sorry yep pursue no in the past we've always done it in the summer but I do think a lot of people have you know go on vacation you're never going to find a perfect time but personally I would think earlier rather than later Dan uh in the past I as I recall this was a Monday night in lieu of zoom call thing at least like when we went up to button rock right it was a couple maybe three hours I'm thinking a six to eight kind of thing I don't remember exactly is that what we foresee or is this a Saturday afternoon deal staff I'm sure staff will be flexible and we can do whatever works best for this group yeah you're right Dan that typically we've done this in lieu of a proud meeting on a Monday evening we've done it at like five thirty five o'clock to seven or eight o'clock depending on where we're going um historically the board has invited council to join us right um and we so we would want to schedule that in a second way so that's an opportunity for the board to speak with council members them know their priorities for council to consider is that as they move forward um and we can certainly figure out a way for folks to cycle when they want to cycle folks to drive if they don't want to cycle to make sure they were meeting strategic gathering points and trying to have those conversations um Jeff was right about covid and you know we would certainly follow whatever covid requirements are in effect at the time and um you know so maybe later in the summer maybe better contrary to what you said sue I don't know it's really up to y'all but um it's yes I was wondering like maybe July or September because I feel like August is always tricky but I don't know so maybe we could oh go ahead no we're just asking to see if this evening if we can kind of get a quick temperature from each of the members right now and see if that we can do that now or yeah I want to send out an email as a follow-up we can let's do that we'll work with some of our admin staff and see if we do that it might be easy feel good just look at their calendars and and have that ready for us by the time we meet next time so great yeah my one point would be that if we're doing a bike ride late June has the most light late oh true and the theoretically the thunderstorms in July haven't started yet theoretically okay well let's plan to come back to the next meeting with um a proposed date and general itinerary if that's okay with you David and yeah we can do that I'm sure we can use survey monkey or some sort of email piece with sort of that June July August September Saturday a weekday and see what works best for people and I'm happy to follow up with you to help okay thanks for the questions if you if that's helpful okay thanks everyone so the next item is to discuss any questions that board members have from the materials that we're in the packet and if they're rec center questions we might have to hold them till next time yeah I was going to say there's no there's not really a rec center update because Jeff knew he wouldn't be here like there sort of is yeah okay never mind yeah there is any questions from the packet materials okay if not do we have any additional items from staff I'll just let you know that we are starting the ball rolling for the annexation of Lake Macintosh so David and I met with development services and we're soliciting survey an annexation survey and hopefully we will have that by Friday and it's anticipated that it'll take us approximately three months to go through that annexation process that's it great thanks yeah I saw that in the news any other items from staff none from me okay any items from the board anything else you'd like to bring up yeah Dan um I have two the first one is I saw that city council discussed Lake Macintosh amongst with you folks David in particular and Dan is there something we need to do or should be doing with in response to all that or do you guys have a go forward plan you want to share or I mean I heard I read in the paper I guess mostly you know it's the same sort of thing you'd reported to us before more patrols more signage you know we're hiring additional rangers etc is there anything you need from us or that we should be involved with I appreciate that that question because I think one things that the reason we brought it to this group was again we know some of you live out there some of you have friends out there some of you use it and always want to make sure we're doing kind of a lines with what the community is looking for so as you kind of read through that and heard that I think the big thing is as you're working with your friends and neighbors not there and seeing stuff that either is working well or not working to let us know but I would say exactly what you talked about we're going to go through this season we've already had the ability to hire on some additional rangers Timford Dan had done a great job with that done some additional training which will also help we're going to be doing this year some temporary signs they're not going to be the the the paper laminated to be an aluminum temporary sign that will work on that Dan's got the ability to get some grant dollars with Mark's more partners to do access areas so that people aren't having to tromp through vegetation potentially to get to launch their vessels so we have a pretty robust plan but we're going to need some additional dollars we'll be putting in some more dollars to the 2022 budget so this year we're going to use those additional to have some temporary signage continue to monitor PD's going to be working with us and I would say when we get together once a month those of you that are out there and use it to hear things please let us know it's probably the biggest thing and provide feedback to your friends and neighbors using on what we're doing that'd be great well just FYI uh weekend what eight nine days ago saturday i lost count at 60 plus boats on a 25 boat maximum lake and two days ago on saturday which was kind of a grim weather in the morning there were already 25 boats and so that's a impossible number right now i mean that regulation is just isn't going to happen so i i did talk to council about that and there were his council members really want us the challenge right now in dank could tell us what it to is that that is part of the adopted master plan however it was never we would have a we don't have a rule and right that says there has to be 25 no more than 25 people on that body of water so if someone out there they really could not at this point we could put a sign up or something but we don't have a rule and right that addresses that at this point so is it do we is 25 a number because it keeps people safe is this a number because it's consideration neighbors is a 25 for um wildlife impact so i think if we can address safety out there if we can address noise if we can address those pieces um maybe it's trying to manage the activity more than the numbers because we are going to be looking at putting in for a boat for out there in 2022 as well it'd be hard for us right now to say who was the first person on who was the 26 on 26 year off you have to stand here and wait but you know so let's put their paddle board in across the lake so i think working um to see i'll go back a little bit council too because there definitely was debate on do we need to have another regulation that staff can enforce or is enforcement you have to be wearing a vest you have to be wearing a life jacket or a flotation of like you have to stay out of the wildlife closures if we can manage those pieces is that is that easier than managing a number i'm with you i think that's smart because that number i don't see it's just totally impractical both size and any number at all then again that number was generated back in 2003 right and you understand that at that point in time paddle boards were aware they didn't you know they really didn't exist so i mean it's a brand new entity you know we're i'm counting the days when the new buoys come in and the rangers and my staff can get those buoys out to you know demarc um that uh northwest shoreline is habitat to keep people out of there those are our priorities again as david said safety is an issue is clearly an issue and it's things like pfds on all these boats and uh a child under 13 of years of age must be wearing one um you know again it's going to be a lot of education and hopefully um you know the rangers are going to be out there and and a presence um our rangers um those that are on anyhow from button rock and union and these community rangers all just this past week just went through four significant days of training with the police department and our city attorneys and and city prosecutors so um you know i what i heard from those rangers it's the best training they've had period ever and um one of them has been here almost 16 years so um it's a great step forward well and again my main point is it's starting already so any nice day you know like we discussed last year it's been discovered everybody knows a nice day hey let's go to lake mac you know i mean it's it's we're starting yeah go ahead dan i was just gonna say i was at golden ponds um tuesday night i thought i'd you know spend a couple hours just kind of dinking around with the fly rod and this is at six o'clock at night and i was lucky to find a parking spot so we it's happening it's there yeah so that's what i was just gonna say too i think that this this group of rangers we have right now i believe we we have six new rangers that we didn't have that last year so it's going to be a big help but those are the same rangers that will be at golden ponds they'll be trying to keep kids from jumping off bridges at dickens park they'll be out doing the new trail connection so um you're not going to see a ranger at macintosh all the time i think that's as we kind of move forward and say as you look at budget for 2022 do we need to have some dedicated people some of these more these busier parks so um i think we're making incremental change in that direction to address us but we're gonna we still have some gaps this coming season yeah and we will see next week on tuesday wednesday thursday is when you'll first start seeing the community rangers out actually doing patrols and the other element even failed to mention it's going to be a significant duty is contacting the homeless or those camping along the greenways that's going to take a significant amount of time also i i hate to keep going here page but now this has been opened up it's a great piece so i hope that i'd like the community to know what we're doing with that too because dan mentioned that training um a lot of those rangers come in with natural resource backgrounds and they're used to doing fishing violations or hoping to talk about people about the abert squirrel up at button rock um but managing homelessness and homeless camps in our community become a big part of this and our this ranger group has been trained at only with our um pd and our attorney's office but also with our homeless services outreaches so that they know when they're contacting people that they can try to get them services in addition trying to make them get in compliance with their rules and regulations so i have a second one if you're ready we done my other point was to ask again about uh making the doors on tennis courts functional again as doors uh i bring that up because thank you uh timber with the bathrooms are open again and people are using handles apparently to get the doors open and shut and the cdc released things saying we don't get covid anymore from touching surfaces so but balls still go out in the street and uh from tennis courts and so i think it's high time that we undo the permanently open gates on tennis court doors i notice that afalter the doors are functional um and it would be great for quail and car and pratt and the other multi-corded facilities to have doors that can stay shut yep so your process of different calling sorry david i was gonna say that you're going to this meetings with public public health so go ahead no yeah we're in the process of reinstalling all the gates on all the tennis courts basketball courts throughout the city also installing all of the benches that we took out um we just we got a little bit behind with the big snowstorm so we're we're going so it is happening just it's happening yep like you've seen a couple popping up we're in the process of getting them all back i was on the cdc web page today in boulder county and looking for all my data you know great never mind okay yeah there you'll they're going up i'm done okay any other items from the board scott um i have a question on the same frame greenway um south of boston east of uh south pratt parkway um it used to be a mobile home park is there a plan for that space um i was just looking to see in the cip if there was gonna be a project that's planned for there or is there a future plan for that little space as a park or something it's just south of budget home center yeah a lot of touch on that yeah sure yeah public works and natural resources is working with other departments and divisions within the city to um repurpose that property we the current philosophy from our city leadership is that it was once affordable housing it should probably remain affordable housing we are working with long month what are we called luh long month yes thank you um working with them to see if they will purchase that property um from the funds that bought it originally and try to repurpose that for affordable housing there's nothing in stone yet that's just the discussions that are going on right now um but we as a department would like to offload that property now that we've we're done using it for staging of construction and so yeah right now timbers work group is tasked with maintaining it but uh we're looking to turn it into something else here in the in the near future okay cool thank you yep dude did you have something just to comment i just want to thank especially um you know david dan steve capy and timber i'm always so impressed at these meetings when i hear you talk and i when i read the information we get the board packet um i just think long month is outstanding and stellar when it comes to the parks and recreation i just from other places i go and other people i talk to um i just want thank you guys i think you do a really incredible job and i know you're short staffed and probably under paid but i was a teacher so i understand that perfect anyway thank you well thank you sue thank you very much sue and i just want to tell you that i couldn't agree with you more on the dedication of your staff i don't think many people one know the extent of what they actually have i don't know a lot of people know how much they have from sandsaw ranch up to button rock and everything in between but the staff you have here is great and um a lot of people offer my staff tonight but just so you know that continuity of staff steve and dan both hit their 20 year anniversary of the city this year so you got people that are committed and dedicated to this program thank you guys great thanks sue anything else okay seeing nothing uh we take a motion to adjourn i'll make a motion i move we adjourn go ahead scott no damn good all right i need a second i'll second all right the competition all right all those in favor hi hi hi great thank you the meeting is adjourned thanks everyone thanks everyone hey sue call me about that beer we'll get a beer we'll talk about the project email your phone number to me okay i'll do that right now okay bye