 This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Aloha. I'm Marcia Joyner and this is Cannabis Chronicles, a 10,000 year odyssey. Can you imagine? 10,000 years of this wonderful plant. So tell me, Muse, of that plant and many resources, which wonder far and wide the ancient plant of food, fuel, and fiber cultivation for millennia. Historically, the dietary use of the raw cannabis plant has been 34 million years. Can you imagine? So why we think this is something new or something we just discovered or the publications or whatnot? But in fact it's billions of years ago. And so our odyssey begins. As we venture through the past 10,000 years, we will explore and discover the plant from which cannabis derives. The many uses of the plant, hemp, cannabis, hashes, cannabis and religion, cannabis and medicine, cannabis and Uncle Sam. As you know, the cannabis industry in Hawaii is growing by leaps and bounds. And in 2015, that's only two years, a dispensary program was established and eight licenses were awarded on four islands. The dispensaries are all vertically integrated and produce and distribute all of the medical marijuana products. In 2018, we will be able to use licenses from other states. The Department of Health issues about 1200 medical cannabis cards each month. Unlike marijuana sold on the street, medical marijuana is required to lab test. So our guest today is Khalid King, Vice President of Scientific Operations, Steep Hill, Hawaii. So tell me, Khalid, tell me all about what it is that laboratories do for the dispensaries? Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Marsha, for having me on the show. I appreciate it. We as a cannabis testing lab are exclusively testing cannabis flower and cannabis derived products such as concentrates, tinctures, topicals and lozenges. Those items must go through our laboratory before they are sold on any dispensary shelf. These are all product tested and safety insured, much of the tests that go through similar for FDA approval for pharmaceuticals that are released out there. So many of the products that are being sold here in Hawaii are held to a level that pharmaceutical products are held to in other states. So, okay, so if I get a card that says I can grow 10 plants and I know nothing about growing anything, you can look at my yard and tell me. So I've got these 10 little plants, I think. Now what? I put them in the ground, I think. And how do I know what it is that's happening once they grow and we harvest? How do I know? Do I bring them to you? Absolutely. That's one of the great things that we also provide is we allow for testing. We are allowed testing by the Department of Health for local 329 card holders here in the state of Hawaii. If you present that card to us along with your sample, we are allowed to test it and give you those results back. Those results that we can give back, we do a number of tests, test ranging from heavy metals that are inside of the product to residual solvents to microbial contaminants, microbial contaminants being yeast, mold, things that you find on your common foods in the household. And then not only, of course, most importantly, how much THC is in there, how much other cannabinoids or terpenoids are in there, terpenes being the flavors and the smells that you get from cannabis. What is a terpene? Yeah, a terpene, so this is a really new, interesting field in cannabis science where many people are used to thinking of cannabis as sativa or indica dominant. And that categorization is slowly going away and giving way to terpenes and cannabinoids where people categorize these plants into sections that are smell-rich and, for example, one terpene being linole or the same compound that's present in lavender when you smell it. So many of the nighttime or the indicas that we typically think of are high in linole or have other terpenes that are associated with sleep or bedtime or relaxation. There's also the happier terpenes such as limanine, very common when you cut open a lemon, you smell that. Cannabis also contains these exact same terpenes that have medicinal benefits for patients. So what are other terpenes that common terpenes? I don't mean the fancy ones. Sure. We don't even think about it as a quote terpene. Yeah. This is a new word for me. It is and it's a new word for many in the industry and that's what's so great is that the scientific exploration, we have found hundreds of terpenes that exist out there in nature. When you walk through a forest, you typically smell but on the higher elevations here in Hawaii, you will smell pine. Right. Pine's another terpene pining. It has two forms, alpha and beta pining and these smells are present and have medicinal values in cannabis as well. Another common one is myrcine. Myrcine is found in your mangoes. If you cut open a mango, you are associating that smell as well. So cannabis is very high in limanine, myrcine, pining. There's another one that's typically found in black pepper called beta karyophiline. Karyophiline also has medicinal purposes and then linalola as I already mentioned. Those are some of the very common ones that we look for in cannabis products. So, okay, so now we have terpenes and what was the other category? We have cannabinoids. Cannabinoids. Now that's the one that people kind of throw around like they know what they're talking about. Sure, sure. THC is the one that's most commonly heard of. Most people are familiar with THC. What is little known is that there are also close to 100 cannabinoids as well, different types of cannabinoids that not all are psychoactive. THC gets its popularity because of its psychoactivity, but one other common one is CBD, cannabidiol, which is not necessarily psychoactive, but it also has therapeutic benefits. So these cannabinoids work together with the terpenes in what we call in the medicinal field as the entourage effect. The entourage effect is what gives you the medicinal feel that is different between different strains of cannabis. So if you're treating cancer, for instance, then you would use the cannabinoid, is that? Yeah, you would want to look for certain strains that are high in cannabinoids that are beneficial for tumor suppression. There are reports out there that THCv or veiling tetrahydrocanabinol veiling is an anti-tumor. There's a couple other cannabinoids, and terpenes as well have anti-cancer properties as well. So you would look for strains that are high in those, but the thing is, is you won't know until it's officially tested, and that's what we provide. We provide that knowledge so you know which strain is high in the medicinal properties that you're looking for. So do they, does an individual come to you, or do they go to the dispensary and the dispensary has already tested all these things? How do I know? Sure. If I have one of these elements, and you know you read all the info out there that, try this, try this, try this, how do you know? Do I go to the pharmacy, I mean to the dispensary, or do I go to you? The dispensaries should provide this information at their doors. It is whenever we release a product to be sold at a dispensary, they come along with certificates of analysis. These certificates of analyses go through and list that the product is free from microbial contaminants and other types of forms that could be bad for your health and at the same time tell you the cannabinoid content and the terpene content that are in there. So patients, when they talk to their bud tenders or their product specialists at these dispensaries, should ask for the terpene profiles and the cannabinoid profiles that are in the strains they're looking for? Well, okay so now I've grown my little, ten little plants and they're ready for harvest and I bring it to you and I get these test results but what does it mean? Sure. What are heavy metals? So the great thing whenever you bring a test to us, you have 100% customer interaction where you can call us, email us about any questions you have regarding your results. That is one service that we provide automatically with everything. As far as testing wise, the most popular test that we typically do for patients here in Hawaii is the terpene and the cannabinoids. We are trying to encourage people to think about other potentially toxic things that they need to be looking for in their home-grown products. Toxic things being heavy metals. What is a heavy metal? A heavy metal is we look for four out here in Hawaii. We're required to look for arsenic, lead, mercury and cadmium. These are all elements that are found out there in nature but they can be concentrated in plants, specifically in cannabis plants and with enough consumption over time can possess, can have toxic consequences. Well now we're growing lettuce in this soil just like we grow the cannabis. Does the lettuce have all those things? It is very possible that it does. I don't, that it would be something that the Department of Agriculture then would be testing for. So what about the water? Now we're looking at all these things. What else is in the soil? Yeah there's a lot of nasty things in the soil sometimes that people you can't see with your naked eye. For example pesticides. We look for 60 different pesticides. 60 different? 60 different pesticides we are required to look for. There are over 500 that people look for on the mainland in typical agricultural crops. So 500 different pesticides? Yes and all of those can be washed into the soil by agricultural practices by drift spraying. For example farmers, agricultural specialists spray these pesticides and they can be carried by the wind. If you're an outdoor grower that is something to be concerned about especially if you live up near these agricultural facilities. That just blows my mind. 500 pesticides. One or two wouldn't enough, huh? No and some of these can be particularly harmful to patients that are immunocompromised. There have been reports of it causing seizures. Some of these pesticides causing seizures. One of the most striking things that was recently found is a common pesticide called myclobutanol which I believe is found in Eagle 20 as the product that many people spray is that it when it's inhaled into the lungs which cannabis is most that's the most common route of cannabis consumption is it's converted to carbon monoxide. Oh we all are familiar with carbon monoxide. So that's instant, huh? Yes very instant. Oh that's so scary. Well but the thing is is you don't know until you test. Yeah. That's the well what about now we're watering the plants with household water out of this faucet because this is homegrown plants. What about the water? Sure. We do we do allow for water testing also at our facility. It is not an ISO accredited. We're not accredited to do that but we can provide results for water. Well I know that the department the water they test for all kinds of things. Absolutely but if let's say you catch from rain which some people do they catch the rainfall and then apply that to their plants that hasn't gone through the typical filtration process that the city and the county goes through to make sure your water is safe for consumption and in that case it might be a good idea to test it because these plants can absorb the water that water is then uptake and it's provided up to the flowers that are then harvested for consumption. So the plant absorbs everything and then you absorb. Exactly. This is scary. This is scary. I mean I I'm totally involved in learning about this because I think that this is the way of the future and so I'm just thinking about ordinary people like me who don't know any of this stuff. Absolutely and that's one of the unfortunate aspects of the cannabis industry nationwide is that there's not room for research or for testing especially at the federal level to find safe to determine tolerance levels or safety tolerance for consumption of cannabis. So it's largely an unknown field that we're currently studying deep into. Well we have to take a break and we will be back with Khalib King from Steep Hill, Hawaii and learn more about testing water, soil and whatever. We'll be right back. Thank you for joining me because it brings Hawaii's number one financial literacy show around the globe. For the first time, Think Tech Hawaii is participating in an online based fundraising campaign to raise $40,000. Thanks to Think Tech will run only during the month of November and you can help. Please donate what you can so that Think Tech Hawaii can continue to raise public awareness to promote civic engagement through free programming like mine. I've already made my donation and look forward to yours. Please send your tax deductible contribution by going to the website. Thanks for Think Tech dot cause box dot com. On behalf of the community enriched by Think Tech Hawaii, 30 plus weekly shows. Thank you Mahalo for your generosity. I love her. I'm Marcia and we are back with Khalib King from Steep Hill, Hawaii. It is a laboratory that tests all of the cannabis grown in Hawaii and hopefully the cannabis that we grow at home that you can take to the lab. So tell us Khalib, what all are we looking at? This is just there's just so much information out there that most of us ordinary people do not know. So on any given day what are we looking for? Well any given day we're looking for residual solvents which residual solvent examples can be butane, can be ethanol, can be benzene, toluene. These kind of products are these these type of compounds usually are found in cannabis concentrates. So dabs for example. But how does a plant get that? That's actually part of the manufacturing process. So not only do we ensure that the plant itself did not incorporate these toxins or get them from the atmosphere, but we're making sure that any production that occurs post harvesting that when people turn these flowers and these bud into concentrates or tinctures that those are also safe. So whatever is being added along the way in the manufacturing process we look for as well. I didn't think of cannabis as being manufactured somehow that never occurred to me. So that's when you take it from the flower from the bud and make it into an oil or something else. That's correct. So that it takes these chemicals to transform it. Is that what we're saying? Butane? What else? Some of the chemicals these are these are chemicals that are contaminants that are typically found in the manufacturing process. They're not intentionally added by manufacturers. It's their byproducts or they are accidentals that occur by not cleaning instrumentation properly. For example, when people concentrate or they take the cannabis flower or the cannabis trim and concentrate it. You're not only concentrating the cannabinoids or the THC CBD that you're desiring, but you're also concentrating pesticides, heavy metals, things of that and mycotoxins. What is a mycotoxin? A mycotoxin is on the mainland it's most common in the agricultural fields of corn and wheat, but it is present in cannabis as well and these mycotoxins over time have been associated with liver damage and kidney damage as well. Oh. Oh, that's scary. That is really scary. So how do you once you say well this is here in this particular batch that you're testing, how do you get rid of that or can you get rid of that? So the manufacturers have a few options to remediate their product it's called and here in Hawaii if a dispensary submits a sample for testing that sample then if it does fail they have a chance to take that batch and remediate it which means make it clean make it better. To remove some things sometimes like for example the mold you can dry out the plants a little bit longer to remove the mold that's associated with high moisture content in plants. One way of removing the contaminants such as residual solvents is to operate them at a temperature that removes those residual solvents. What's a residual solvent? A residual solvent is like benzene or ethanol something that's left behind it's residual that wasn't intended to be there. The more I think about growing something at home this this is just but don't be scared that's what we are there to do we're not only there to to say that the product is free from these contaminants but our job is to ensure that that you know it's a science growing as a science people whenever they plant these seeds in their yard the first harvest usually is not the most bountiful they have to tweak some things they have to make things better give them some more water give them some more nutrition it's the same thing when it comes to finding out what contaminants are in your cannabis is you have to work as a science you have to provide it as continually being tested to ensure it's safe well now mold in Hawaii is a big thing yes ma'am so how do you especially in places like wahi wahi up in the high country there where the dampness is all the time what how do you protect I guess is the right word for mold how do you keep that from happening if you're growing plants at home now we we're assuming the the farmers the dispensaries already done this but if we're growing at home how do we protect from that for mold sure is it mold as a plant is growing or is it mold after it's harvested with where where do we get the mold you can have molds most commonly found in the harvesting process and it's not always visible visible mold sometimes we have customers saying that I don't see mold but we detected on our instrumentation that we use and that's because a lot of these things are microscopic they can't be seen one of the most toxic molds that are out there and has been associated but two deaths on the mainland from cannabis consumption is aspergillus aspergillus is a species of mold that it spores once they enter into the lungs can start reproducing and growing inside of your lungs and spread throughout the entire body subsequently killing the patient this is particularly important for people with immunocompromised there are patients that are immunocompromised oh my so does this happen in other plants it does it does happen to other plants and they are required to test for it but the unique thing about cannabis is as many people inhale it that's the big key difference between other plants that are tested for by the USDA or the FDA so it's the inhaling process because it goes directly to the lungs yes and then also like I said earlier with mycotoxins consistent consumption being an oral route through the stomach going through the intestines can cause damage to the kidney and liver if you're consuming toxins as well well now okay we are making an I am making an assumption that the cannabis that people with the card can grow is for medicinal purposes the dispensaries medicinal purpose once the state goes to recreational cannabis will we see those same issues with recreational cannabis as we see with medical cannabis the same issues that growers of medicinal cannabis is the same issues that are found of growers of recreational cannabis it doesn't matter because these pathogens or these sprays pesticides are found in the atmosphere regardless of what type you are growing for what the intention is for the key difference between recreational and medicinal is that precautions that are taken to ensure medicinal cannabis is treated sterile or made sure that it's free from contaminants that could get in there recreational may not be as strict those laws in other states vary for example Nevada Colorado do not have as strict of testing guidelines for pesticides in cannabis and heavy metals in cannabis as Hawaii does what well when we look at the neighbor islands and they're growing using all the pesticides that Monsanto all the fields that Monsanto controls what happens when that those pesticides cross over to your plant not only the crossing over that's scary or the drift as is what yeah the drift or by via water as we were talking about earlier but the next major concern is is that if you are to take a clone from your plant and to grow that clone in a separate little jar or pot it can still contain pesticides in the clone you transferred and as it grows up those pesticides can be toxic they grow with it yeah so it's systemic almost like a disease that the plant has and it stays with the plant and the only way again to find this out is if the plant is tested that is so so even if your neighbor is your neighbor doesn't have anything but they are using round up for instance then that can drift and into your yard it's very possible especially with water water is the best way for it to drift into your yard but we we ensure that we're not trying to scare patients we're not trying to scare growers the key is knowledge that is the most important thing and cannabis has been surrounded in the last century by almost secrecy and silence and that continues to be the approach that the federal government takes towards it relating to the science of cannabis and that's our goal at steep hill is to ensure that the science is talked about that it's shared with the public and that everyone is aware that their cannabis could be contaminated or is healthy for consumption well okay I'll take a deep breath Marsha I don't have any plants because I'm not very good at growing anything but for anyone that wants to that has plants that are growing at home and they want to know all of these things they can call you they can come visit you you want to give us your email address or absolutely so the best way to get in touch is we have to make an appointment for all testing if you call our lab at 808-735-5227 or you can email our lab to set up an appointment at info at hi dot steep hill dot com so you can either email us or call us and we suggest that you follow us on instagram as well because we do educational post as well oh very good and you are located on king street that's correct good so it's in town and parking is in the building and we do provide other options where we can go to your house or your grow facility to do the sampling ourselves that's another great feature that we are wonderful so that I don't want anybody I really am excited about the growth of the industry in Hawaii and I want it to grow so I don't want anybody contaminated I don't want anybody sick and saying but you said it was going no we want you I don't have any stock in steep hill but I do want you to be safe I want you to uh anything that you're growing I want it to be safe so again I thank you so much for being our guest you will come back and answer more questions thank you so much Marsha thank you Aloha