 Good morning. How's everybody doing? If you're not awake you say will be I was once told when I worked at Starbucks I got complaints because I was too cheery in the morning and people just weren't ready for that Welcome, so we're gonna be talking about overcoming your fear of sales. How many people in here sell something? Yeah, okay, how many people in here hate selling stuff? Right, we've all been there We're gonna talk a little bit about how to make it a little less unpleasant for you and help get get you out of your Own head a little bit. All right Okay, what's scarier than heights? What's scarier than public speaking? So Public speaking it said is scarier than the fear of death, right? What's scarier than that the fear of rejection? right, that's really what it comes down to when we're selling and We start getting nervous and a little clammy feeling in our hands. We're about to ask for that big dollar amount It's not because we think that this is you know a big monster is gonna come and eat us It's because they might hurt our feelings Right, so I'll tell you a little bit about me and why I might know something about sales and the fear of rejection I've been in sales since I was five years old both of my parents were real estate agents and They used to practice their listing presentations with me and I got so good at it because I memorized it Their broker brought me in to do sales training for all their agents when I was five years old because he wanted them to see How it was done, right? That didn't go to my head at all So I've been selling stuff since I was five and then when I was in fourth grade My parents got divorced and I became a raging people pleaser And if there's what's the worst thing that can happen to a people pleaser? No Right So But it's not us when we hear no It's not about you, right? So let's look at the numbers 80% of consumers say no the first four times The salesperson talks to them not the first four times a bad salesperson talks to them Any salesperson? Okay Five calls is the number of calls on average it takes to get a yes 72% of all sale all cold calls in and rejection It's not you more than likely Right, so we just have to get used to the idea that most of the time we're gonna get a no not now Ask me later click Right, it's not personal But when you've gone through the first four times the first five calls the 72% and you're still getting a no The number one reason for rejection is your own agenda Nobody cares what's in it for you Right, so how do we achieve in our sales nirvana? It's all in our heads gotta get got to get your mind right Has anybody ever said those words? I don't want to bother them. I bet they're really busy right now It's almost lunchtime. They just got back from lunch. They're probably getting ready to go home Are you psychic? Right, I'm a little psychic, but that's another discussion, right? But really are you tending to read their minds? Do you really know or is this your own internal psychodrama? Playing out and being projected on other people short-circuiting your own ability to be wildly successful Listen to your self-talk. So one of the most powerful tools in your toolbox is non-judgmental self-observation Don't get down on yourself. You are where you are. There's nothing we can do about this moment right here except observe it Right and if you observe this moment and how you act there's gonna be some really interesting things that come up You're gonna say to yourself. Oh, I didn't realize I did that Well, isn't it interesting that I made that excuse isn't it interesting the way I did that and You start observing yourself and you can plan to make better decisions in your conversations Are you playing credit manager? Has anybody ever heard of this? So I I've sold a lot of things I've sold alarms and stained-glass windows and above-ground pools And I mean everything you can think of I've tried to sell it One time I was selling above-ground pools and I drove up to the sales appointment My sales manager had said it for me. He knew the story. I didn't I drove up cold Ram Shackle house on the side of a mountain Walked out old dude in overalls No shirt in The front yard I'm sitting in my car. I call my sales manager. I'm like you have got to be kidding me Did you really just waste my time? He's like, what are you talking about? I said this guy can't afford a $5,000 pool and He said you're playing credit manager and that's not your job What do you mean? He said it's not your job to determine another person's finances and what they can import in fact is quite insulting Do you do that in your business? I know that I continually have to Remind myself that I'm not a credit manager for somebody else Their finances are not my business. Have you ever gone into a sales call and you said Well, I know to be really profitable. I need to charge this but they probably can't afford that So I'm gonna tell them this You're playing credit manager Right, that's not our job What's that? Yeah, you know why? Because what he was buying was not a pool. He was buying seeing his wife in a bikini for the next three months Right. He didn't care about clothes. He didn't care about a nice house But he cared about seeing her in a two-piece from June to August Right, it's not about what we want I wanted to sell him a pool and all that psychodrama in my head was about my needs I didn't take a second to think about what might be in it for him. I was thinking more about how this interaction affected me Nobody has ever sat in their car Before a sales call or a client appointment and had all a bunch of crazy thoughts about how they're gonna serve a client's needs Right all that stuff that's going on is because you're in your own head thinking about yourself Well, that's how it applies to me. I don't want to make assumptions about you But more than likely if you're having anxious conversations in your head Before you interact with somebody it's more likely You're focusing inward. Have you done this enough or is every single time like the first time? Right Do you think That the lady at the drive-thru at McDonald's has sales fear when she's asking you to supersize your fries No, cuz she does it 700 times a day, right? Okay, now let's let's apply that I mean if you want to get comfortable with sales if you want to get comfortable with sales conversations You have to have them and you have to have them frequently and And with repetition Want some good news Better than french fries your job is not to sell, right? Your job is to solve problems for people. That's a completely different mental dynamic and conversational dynamic, right? Hopefully the problems you're solving are not as bad as the problems this guy solves, but Solving problems is our job Well, who are you gonna solve problems for? Not everybody in the known universe Right the more clear you get about who your target market is the more clear you can get about how you can be the expert in Solving their problem. I used to think that my target market was the people I built websites for right? That seems logical, but the more I dug down into my why I realized that my target market are my referral partners That's who I want to spend time with that's who I want to crap my messages for that's who I want to solve problems for And in the end everybody gets what they want. They need a trusted guide a Trusted advisor who can walk with them Bless his heart. He just looks lost, right? To be a trusted advisor one of the things you want to get to know is What's going on in their business? how can you solve a problem or build a website or Create a marketing automation or write content when you don't understand what their business is and what their pain points are One of my greatest business relationships came from Asking somebody who was sitting next to me at a meet-up. Were you struggling in your business? And he said I really hate X and I said me too But why don't you let me but I said that in my head. I Was like why don't you let me help you solve that pain take that off your plate? Find out what they didn't like from people. They don't buy from All right, I went on a recent sales call the guy was a referral and He I was the sixth web agency. He had talked to you that week and He was angry and he was bitter and he did not like that. I was wasting his time Okay, that could be a red flag Or it could be an opportunity Need some clarifying questions to find out which that is so I asked him I said I see that you know This has been a very unpleasant experience for you, and I'm sorry about that But can you tell me what was the commonality of all these people that you talked to that you didn't like and he said They didn't hustle and they didn't know how to communicate Okay, all right Well, and he was really curmudgeonly so I didn't ask this question ironically I said have you ever worked with anybody you did like And he said yes dozens and dozens and I said what's the commonality between all of them? He said they hustle and they know how to communicate. Oh What do you think I talked about for the next hour Yes, because when they're agitated, this is an opportunity to either Prequalify them as not a good candidate for your business or find out how you can be a superstar to them And once you know their story you get to talk But not about what you want You bend your story to their concerns So what this gentleman needed was a website, but what he was buying was hustling communication So as I crafted my story to fit his concerns That's what I talked about how fast we were gonna get this done how we were gonna communicate every step of the way That's a different experience Than just trying to sell somebody a product, right? I needed to sell that old dude in overalls and no shirt three months with his wife and a bikini Not an above-ground pool So one of the things that short circuits our ability To do sales effectively is our own perception of what sales means, right? so When people hear sales sometimes they think sleazy greasy cheesy Smarmy you know huckster ish Well, there are some classic sales techniques. They've gotten a bad rap over the year years some of them Well, let's see what we can do to update them for the digital age and maybe apply them to a more elegant sales process Going out of business has anybody ever seen this sign We had a carpet company in our neighborhood when I was a kid who went out of business every three weeks What's this about right? What is that that is scarcity? Updated for the digital age I'm booking up quickly You know, I only have two more slots available and I'd love for one of those to be yours Get back to me because that's a moving target My booking calendar is one of my best friends in my sales process because it's very clear I don't have a lot of available slots That promotes scarcity Okay, anybody else use scarcity in their business Allison very effective. Yes, right? Visualization is the first step right because you have to own it in your mind anybody else by me Yes, do you put an expiration date in your proposal? I Don't either but I have made a resolution that I'm gonna start doing that Because especially if you use like an electronic proposal solution If you don't put an expiration date you can be booked up for three weeks and then somebody Sit since accept on a two-week turnaround project and now you're like, oh so it's not always about Creating scarcity, but sometimes it's about managing your own time foot in the door So I might be dating myself some of the younger folks in the room probably have never seen this When I was a kid door-to-door salesmen would come around and if you open the door they put their foot in So you had to hear what they said or break his foot, right? Well, we don't want to do that, but what would be an updated version of this for the digital age opt-ins tripwires What else? Yeah, ethical bribes That's what they're called Ah, thank you for asking a trip wire product is a small product that you can sell To start building trust and value and your relationship Well normally no you normally a lead magnet is an ethical bribe Where you are saying if you'll sign up for my list, I'll give you this Right So where a trip wire would be once they're on your list Maybe you send out an email and say hey, I normally charge X for this but for a limited time, I'm gonna give you this one thing for $99, you know something that's a very small fraction of your normal thing, right? So when I sell a website several several thousands of dollars But I really like to sell keyword research as a trip wire product It's a it's a small engagement if you have lots of interaction with a client up front You get to know them you get to build trust with them and they get to see my expertise, right? And then once they have that keyword research, I'm pushing them through to take them where they need to go This is a foundational product. I love where do you get started on this? Okay It's easier than just a cold sale for a $5,000 website, right? Another tried-and-true classic. What about now? What about now? knock knock knock knock I Notice you hadn't opened my email since yesterday at 5 p.m. Are you okay? Updated for the digital age Continuing to demonstrate Not only the prospects value to you, right because they don't care what their value to you is really But also your value to them Right, so maybe every touch point that you have with them is not a sales call Maybe some of your touch points is you have a particular problem. I ran across this article and I thought you would be interested talk to you later No ask Nothing all you're doing is giving and providing value nobody wants to be around somebody Have you ever been around a friend who is just a taker? Have you ever been on a date with somebody who never shut up? Right This relationship is like a romance between your business and their business, right? The most important way that you can make someone else feel like they are heard and you were a great Conversationalist it's not to say anything really to listen to them give them an opportunity He who talks first loses Has anybody heard of this? Okay, for those of you who haven't heard what this is. This is a sales technique that Basically says that when I have a conversation with you and work I'm going to ask you an uncomfortable question and it's probably around money budget timeline milestones things that benefit me The human propensity is to feel that silence when you're waiting for an answer with anything okay a lower number Lesser terms to reduce your position of strength in any way to get out of having to sit there with your own Problems for five seconds while you wait for the other person to answer Okay, because the first person person who talks first loses. I mean your client doesn't really lose, but if you talk first you do Okay, this is so powerful I would be willing to say if you could learn to sit in silence You could probably increase your sales by 20 percent next year Just by doing that you imagine all the lost sales Billions and billions of dollars of lost sales and generated income from people who just can't sit with themselves for a few seconds Really powerful updated for the digital age Still gold right this one still works What are some other old-school techniques you've seen? He who talks first still loses Updated for the digital age. It doesn't need to be updated. It still works What are some other old-school techniques you've seen? What about bait and switch? Anybody ever seen that? We used to do that the pool company. We said we have an above-ground pool. It's 395 dollars the year before I came on they got in big trouble because They would not if somebody said yeah, I'll buy that pool. They were like we're out of stock, but we have this $5,000 model That's bait and switch right But how can we take that principle and ethically update that? right how about we have a Templated website or we have a custom website for X amount of dollars and we get them interested in a conversation And we say yes, we can do that for you, but this might be a better solution considering your very particular needs Your mileage may vary Yeah, one of the things I do is when someone is doing a recurring plan if they get over a certain amount It triggers a free service Right, what are some other common obstacles that you face in selling? Yes, so when someone comes back with an objection on price It's really just a few things that they're real that's really happening one They don't have any money and they're and they're not a good fit for your business and that's a pre-qualifying issue Right, so now you know, okay Maybe I haven't completely refined my process of onboarding people through my sales process And I need to like work on that right or it could be that during your conversation You haven't given them enough information Right, so maybe you haven't shown them all the value that they have because By the time you get to the end of your sales conversation if it's all about them and you've identified what their problem is and maybe the problem They told you they have is not their real problem Right, so you got to do some probing questions clarifying probe and clarify probe and clarify and if you finally got into the real problem and you have created an Awesome, you know solution to their problem and it's still a question of price Maybe they're not the only decision-maker Have you ever heard someone that sounds great got to talk to my wife So asking who's the decision-maker who all are the decision-makers on this project? It's a great just these are some of my onboarding questions I'd like to ask up front, you know, what's the nature of your business? What's your structure of your business? What do you sell? Who are the decision-makers? Just slip it in there right and then it may be that you're and this is probably the least likely situation is that You're pricing Maybe incorrect Right, maybe you need to test a few and maybe it's not off by that much, but maybe if your Product is eight thousand dollars. Maybe the magic number is seven thousand seven hundred and seventy five, but you don't know Until you've done some testing right usually that's not it, but occasionally it is Yes, sir Yes, that is that is absolutely correct. So if you reduce your pricing Without taking something off the table. You've told them a couple of things one. I was overpricing you to begin with to I have no pricing integrity and every price I give you from now on is subject to negotiation Never ever lower your prices unless one Your lights are about to get turned off to You're taking something off the table All right, has anybody ever gone all the way through their sales process? Gone all the way through put all this time in sat down with a client Got all the way to the end and then didn't ask for the business. It's very common It's very common. Make sure that you're practicing Telling somebody you want their business Right, I only have two slots available. I'd love for one of them to be yours You know, this is a great solution. I am so excited about working with you I really would like to do business with you It's a little scary because then they could say well, I don't like you and you're ugly Because we're scared of rejection, right? It may be but it also may be Expanding the complexity of your process because then if they haven't decided enough to pull the trigger you may have to give them their money back You know, I mean, so you might want to test it and see how that works for you Do you get a deposit before they get on your schedule? Yeah Yeah Yeah, and also maybe Try to think of a smaller engagement a really tiny engagement that you can book that slot for Maybe it's a half-day workshop You know and then but it's you're booking the slot Getting them to pay you for your consulting because especially if you're doing a large proposal That's a service you're providing them because you are helping them work through their business processes They don't know what they need to buy and you're the professional coming in beside them helping them determine What it is their business needs that has value Yeah yes, so I recently had a situation where a client came to me by referral and Um, I had a great sales call with them My my initial calls are usually around 45 minutes to an hour and I have a very high closing rate on my first calls Right, it's because I I can just really dig into their Clarifying and probing But we had a great call sent him a proposal It wasn't a big thing. I didn't need to go on site Thought it was a lock they called me back and they say hey, we've got this other company Who's come in with a lower price? They're going to do this this and this can you work with me on that? And I said when I replied back I said I had to be very careful how I answer this because there's a fine line Between clarifying my position and auditioning for work and I want to do the former or not the latter Has anybody ever danced for business? I'll do anything Me too. I've done it. It's a constant battle to keep yourself in check But we don't need to do that because we are the experts And you start dancing you give them the power and now you become A hired pencil for them Which is not to their benefit. They need an expert not somebody they can boss around Because then you're going to end up doing what they want and they'll they'll never respect you and they'll never take your advice And then you're going to end up with a piece of crap product that you're responsible for and now they're unhappy But people respect strength Like that email that I sent back and I said let me just clarify my position They emailed back and they were said they said thank you so much for being transparent I really appreciate that and we're probably going to go with you Right because it's not always about price It's about perception Then I can use those things Absolutely, absolutely. I'm an introvert, but I am not shy Right. Those are not the same thing. So I just ask people Do you have an allocated budget for this? Because the last thing you want is to get all the way through the sales process and they're like Art, I'm going to talk to my money guy and we'll work out payment. Whoa That means you don't have the money for this and my final payment might be contingent on this third person who I've never met Liking what we did even though he had no input in the process And sometimes to that answer is I don't know what my budget is Okay People don't know what their budget is, but they know what their budget's not Well, how much is that website? um Well, I will say that again. Maybe you don't know what your budget is, but is your budget 15 000 dollars? No, I was thinking more 4,700. Boom. Okay. Now we've got some clarification It's a sneaky trick, isn't it? Heather? Mm-hmm. Absolutely Yes, so what heather was saying is that at every interaction we should be moving forward to a goal, right? So maybe your sales cycle is a little bit longer than mine Right, maybe your sales cycle is there's a lot of trust building and it's a big project And we and it takes a long time to make a decision But at each step of the way we could be moving a little bit forward and there needs to be goals along with that Right, so incremental success And then that final piece kind of just locks into place instead of just cruising and then having a big ask, right? Yes Okay, so they said that they're ready to go So your client who referred you Are they qualified to make that assessment that this person is ready to go? Right So they and and you've never met them. They might I'll be a fit for you I take almost everybody that comes through referral for me, you know to me because that's a really important thing I will find a solution because I want to make my my main job is not to build websites My main job is to make my referral partners look like geniuses for referring them to me. That's my job, right? okay, so when They emailed me and said Because it was email not a call and they said hey this other company has come in under price And they said they can do the exact same things you can do for $400 less let's just say Which was about a 20 percent difference in this initial engagement so I do not compete on price Right because you're never it's never apples to apples So I reminded her and she was like and can you give me some referrals? I said Once we have agreed upon an engagement I'd be more than willing to introduce you to one of my clients But my relationships with my clients are sacred to me I do not expose them to strangers And I would extend you the same courtesy And as far as this other company I am local they are not I have offered to come on site and learn about your business And how I can craft a custom solution for you If they are also willing to do that and you feel that they're going to give you the same service And the person who referred them to you is the same caliber as the person who referred me to you Then I wish you luck and I will bear no ill will because I think you've probably made a better decision Really? Right. I'm not always the best person I might have been being a little sarcastic But they got the point right because they forgot That I'd come by I'd come highly recommended And they got distracted by price So I just brought them back, but it's not about me. I'm not saying I never once said I'm because I have more skills in this area than they do It was all about are they going to give you the same level of service and value? Do you respect where you got the information about them? Right all about them Yes, sir When someone is wildly happy at the end of a first engagement And they're like oh my god. Do you know anybody else who you could introduce me to? You know would you mind Saying exactly what you just said on yelp You know what I mean sending them an email Saying you know thank you so much for all the kind words, you know the biggest compliment you could pay me is to say that on social media But the majority of my referrals now I do get a lot of referrals from my clients But the majority of my referrals come from my peers And I think the majority of your referrals can come from your peers as well I have a talk on more press tv called building your referral network I recommend if you want to build your referrals go check that out Building your referral network. You have to just search my name. I before the e Where hi Jen? Yes, because when somebody refers somebody to you They're lending you their reputation and unless you close that loop They're still a little anxiety. I don't want any that's not an appealing position to be in right? I appreciate it. He's about me Opposite experience where I've sent Somebody to someone else and then I got a response like Oh, well, I just never contacted them And uh, that was the last time that person got a referral from me Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I if you want referrals make it a great experience for the people referring business to you You would think that that's a no-brainer, but right because There's nothing better than business dropping in your lap And not only is that easier to acquire the prospects. It's an easier sales process They're already loved up when they get to you anybody else Yes, ma'am Yes, there's a fourth option One of the best things I ever heard at a wordpress meetup came from diana nickles And I don't know if you know her she's down at the registration desk She she said these magic words to me That's a fantastic thing to put on our itinerary for phase two Right. I open a document I have like a shared google drive folder for all my clients I just open a document phase two and we just start putting stuff on there and I'm assuming the sale That's another classic sales technique assuming the sale. I'm in here I'm talking to you my assumption is we're doing business and I'm just going to start talking to you as if we were You can do that for phase two just start opening it up This is going to go so well Let's just go ahead and start putting our ideas for phase two because we want to close this out because the last thing We want is just a project that goes on forever. Let's define this And they hit phase two Yeah, and and honestly I don't ask them which one they prefer because they're not the expert I am Right. I will say these are our options This is the one I recommend for you Maybe I say how would you like to move forward? I'm not even giving them an option not to move forward I'm just asking how they want to do it Right This is how I work This is my sales process when someone says well, I'm really interested How do we move forward because sometimes they ask me and I say, okay This is my sales process and this is where I set up all my jerky expectations for them Because I can I like to be like a real hard ass up front and then once they make that first payment It's all love and roses after that Right, but this is really important because you're setting the expectation That you're a value to them, right? This is how I this is how my process works My next available start date is here to get on that next available start date. I need a 50% deposit Okay Once I get the deposit you go on the calendar. This is your homework I expect these things to be done before we start and I will do these things if we The project will last let's just say four weeks When the project is done the payment the final payment is due And if we're not done it's because I'm waiting on you because I don't miss deadlines Okay Yes Yeah Thank you for bringing that up. So I do have an appointment calendar and you can find it by going to book with april.com Where you can book a consultation with me a let's hang and talk turkey. That's one of my options, right But yes, yes And one of the things they always did was establish a change budget up front And say look, we're not doing this work for you unless you take 30% of that budget and set it aside for change because unless you are Super super good at getting all the specifications on the front end Sometimes the scope creep is necessary to finish out the project, but you got to get paid for it. Yes Yes And I am of the opinion that if I miss quote, that's my bad My client should not pay if I'm going to be the expert. I have to take I have to take the head if I miss quote But I build in for chaos Because chaos is not new And you're not immune from it. It's an element of the universe. So just build it into your proposals So a lot of people bid for the best case scenario if everything works out well and everything's perfect We can get this done on this time frame in this order and it would cost this much and that's what they bid Where's your allowance for chaos? Right because it always happens. Yes What about That's a very specific question with a very complicated answer I do a hybrid. I do fixed price billing And then if there is like something with a wide degree of ambiguity and potential chaos Then I will do hourly billing I have a very nice hourly rate. So that doesn't really hurt me But that's a last resort Right and I have a rate sheet who has a rate sheet My rate sheet is so powerful for a long time. I did bespoke pricing Everyone got a different price based on their current situation and the credit manager Who thought I knew what they needed, right? So I had to I had to rein myself in and write it all down And then send it to my assistant and say keep me accountable for this Right and the first call I took after I did my rate sheet Was just my minimums and that's all I didn't put everything I did. I just put my minimums. I'm not going to take anything under x This is what this process costs Right The very next phone call I did not have my rate sheet up and I was like, oh, yeah, I can do it for this I can do it for this is amateur This is what it costs Is professional that means I have a process. This is not the first time I've done this Right And also it allows you to deflect a little responsibility Right my price sheet is my boss. You can almost kind of play a mental game like I'd love to give you that discount But the boss says No This is internal It's internal and confidential Right, but occasionally a referral partner or asked for my price sheet So they can if especially if they're going to bid my prices into their word or they want to know if I'm an appropriate fit And if we have an established relationship, I will send them my price sheet Yes, sir I publish a range so on my website I say and I have some if y'all want to Go there later. I have some really jerky language on my website If you want to work with me, these are the qualifications Right Because it blows away the people who want to be in charge And attracts the people who like strength and want to respect you Right But I put a range I say My minimum for you know really my minimum engagement is this And if you want something more complex it can go up to this And then increase rapidly from there Right because it's all about setting expectations because then if they make it through that gate Of jerkiness then they can say then when you start talking they're like oh, okay. Well, that's not bad But I've had more people tell me that I look like the queen of my Industry because of my website because I'm a little jerky on it You've got to have money You have to have a budget you need a team you need determination You need commitment you need respect for deadlines Because we're going to do this thing and we're going to do it right And I need you on board if I'm going to make something fantastic for you And I will But you got to play too Right jenny Yes, we are beginning to standardize our processes Right, so that started with my rate sheet Okay, we're not just going to do whatever So and I had an internal process, but it was all in my head But now I've hired somebody else and they need to know that too So now we've got a process and not only have a process for for everything that we're putting together We have a process for onboarding our clients And once you can onboard your clients in a really strategic way The quality goes up right pricing Is easier And it's a little bit more fun to sell something when you don't have to do all the work Think about that I was suppressing my own ability to sell Because I knew I was going to do the work But what if you didn't have to do that? I don't know I started talking did I answer the question Anybody else Yes, ma'am my website is sugar5design.com You can find all the slides at this ridiculous link Or you can go to my website Go to slides fear of sales sugar5design.com So it's a landing page that's booked like a boss It's a fantastic site and but I can on my Like say under my services. I have a drop-down for coaching and I have my calendar embedded on my website with also my terms To tell you if you're eligible to book an appointment with me Right, right I don't have time for turkeys But I'm very generous with people who are a fit for me. Well, that's all I have