 Welcome back to The Breakfast Here On Plus TV Africa. Our final conversation this morning is of course moving to incidents concerning Sunday Adeyamo. The Department of State Services has stated that 13 persons were arrested in a raid in his house two nights ago. Last night actually and of course arms ammunition and charms and some other things were also found at his residence. Videos of course have also been put on the internet showing the aftermath of that raid. His vehicles destroyed, blood stains on the floor both in and outside the house. This morning we're speaking with Babashala Kuti who's joining us to share his thoughts all the way from the UK. Good morning, thanks for joining us sir. Good morning, thanks for having me. Good morning. Let's first get your reaction to this, the raid and of course the statement from the DSS. Is there any part of this conversation that immediately triggers you? Yeah, I mean to be honest you know the funny thing, I'm actually shocked by the DSS carrying out this raid because when I first saw the pictures and videos circulating I actually honestly thought it was a spoof that Sunday was just being mischievous because the level of destruction of his property was almost like vandalization. I mean a professional organization like the DSS, ordinarily he should do his job without resulting to this level of destruction. Breaking cars, I mean that has no bearing on the issue. If you declared somebody wanted then I think you should go in and make an arrest and if you can't find that person you go about your business not to destroy the property and vandalize and although now that I'm reading the press statement I'm seeing that they did claim that there was a shootout at the residence and if that was the case the DSS will have the right to defend itself but because there's a lack of trust for the current administration I think people will then question if that really happened or if it was just a show of force. Okay so another issue here that people have complained about is how Nigeria's law enforcement agencies approach you know secessionists, approach people who have different views from the government and we can consider cases such as Omo Yelishore who has been calling for a revolution now, how he's been treated, how he's been arrested multiple times, the last one that occurred a few weeks ago where it was said that a tear gas canister was shot at him and he sustained an injury, the invasion on Nandukanu's house and this one that occurred around 2am today so what's going to be your assessment of Nigeria's law enforcement agencies and especially the DSS regarding how they approach people who have you know different views about what Nigeria as a state should be? Well I think we should separate some issues first, I wouldn't put Omo Yelishore in the same category as San Diego and Nandukanu first of all we have to separate that and be you know to be frankly you know frank with you Omo Yelishore is asking for a revolution to change you know the way things are done in government to possibly change government as well he's not asking for cessation, he's not bearing arms, he's not asking people to be shot at he's not driving people from a particular part of the country you know and you know so we have to separate those two issues Omo Yelishore is agitating for something completely different and he's doing it in a peaceful manner so he should never be harassed to be honest I mean if the DSS does have issues I mean Nandukanu we know that a standard that an ESN network which is obviously asking non-relative people to bear arms San Diego also we know that he is known to have been you know carrying arms as well on licensed arms so as far as I know there are two separate things but even that being said the I mean the police we've had we've known you know with the NSS parties we've had all those issues the military slightly more professional but the DSS for me is the biggest disappointment, I read the press paper this morning and the last two paragraphs just you know just show exactly how the government is thinking because the leadership itself the language that leadership speaks is a very careless, flippant language it doesn't carry the people alone so essentially they are turning these characters into heroes and for me I think you know I mean it's going to take a long time for people to be able to trust these authorities you know once this government does the power Well you know something that you know I would ask you know and I made mention of this earlier is should the DSS have even carried out the raid in the first place without a court warrant without declaring him wanted without inviting him for questioning for whatever it is that he's been invited for because you know from what it seems that there's still no actual charge or reason behind the raid so share your thoughts on that one because we seem to have gotten used to a system where some of these things happen and we make excuses if you remember in 2015 there was a raid on judges houses at night also at 1am or 2am and Nigerians found an excuse for it and gave you know whatever reasons there were dense stories of you know dollars and foreign currency found in their houses and some of all of that to date none of those judges has been found guilty of anything so should the DSS have been in Sunday Bohus residents in the first place? They shouldn't have been, that's the truth, unless they can tell us produce a court order saying that they have the one for the rest you know again we are back to our back at this and I'm sorry to say that but this is what it looks like but the actors in this government are also our back at Bohus so I'm not surprised about what is going on I think you know the law keepers are actually lawless you know I'm not afraid to say that because it shows that there's a disregard for the constitution, for the rule of law and for democracy in general I mean Sunday Bohus committed a crime the appropriate thing was to approach a court and get a warrant for his arrest and then if you can't find him say we declare him wanted and you're looking for him but to go to his house in the middle of the night and engage in what turned out to be bloody shootout then the destruction of property I mean look I tell you in the UK here if the police rude your house while you're not in or they break down your door they'll get a lock smith before they leave to fix that door you know so imagine you know the level of destruction to cars and to the entire building and you know shooting people and you know we cannot tell you for sure if people were actually shooting back or if it is just when they're doing Sunday Bohus reputation and open fire on innocent people we don't know what happened I'm also surprised that you know a couple of days later we still don't know the names of the people that died you know it's you know little things like that if the DSSRK took those bodies away from there where did they take them to there's so many things so many questions that need to be asked so that so seeing the character of Nigeria security agencies especially the DSS many analysts have described them as irresponsible and very unprofessional do you think they would take responsibility for you know replacing everything that it damaged and why we even begin to talk about prosecution for you know the people that were killed are those even going to come up you know on the national level I think they should and this is where you know I have a problem with national assembly because something like this has happened and immediately there should be people talking about it at a higher level like it's like you rightly said this thing started a long time ago you know in 2015 December Sharks were massacred because they didn't refuse to give chief of army staff right away so not only 700 people were said to have been killed in 2016 George's houses were raided in the middle of the night and all sorts of stories were corrupted by the DSSRK so these things are things that they become a habit you know and for me I am thoroughly disappointed but I'm not surprised because even the DSSRK for the last few years have been kind of recruitment of people who cannot even speak English you know so what level of professionalism do you expect the DSSRK should be a very respected organization in Nigeria you know as in even the kinds of people that joined the DSSRK were very well qualified lawyers and also some people who had degrees some that didn't have but the training was so good that when you encountered the DSSRK you were always impressed but from what I'm seeing Nigeria have become a police state you know there's so much chaos everywhere and everybody is taking the lunch with their hands because at the end of the day are there going to be any consequences? I doubt what do you expect to happen next now that he's been declared wanted what do you expect that he will present himself to the security agencies and also there is also the conversation about the fact that if Nigeria doesn't actually answer some of these questions or have a listening ear to the cries of these persons there would always be new agitators every other season so how do you think this will play out next? I think to be honest it was only a matter of time before Sunday goals and I said this right from the start when people were calling him an activist and all I said he's a criminal and I make no apologies for saying this because as far as I'm concerned nobody has the right to go and tell somebody else to leave a particular area in Nigeria if you do not want Nigeria to be as is there are legal ways to do it you don't do it illegally and expect to get it with you Sunday goals boys are being involved also in killings I'm not holding brief for anybody who has killed Yoruba people or anybody else in fact in the country but it's the same thing I always say that if I do not support food and eateries why should I support a Sunday go going to a food and eateries space and killing people I wouldn't do that either the point I'm making is that there's this attempt at lawlessness and the Yoruba leaders themselves should stand up and stop allowing miscreants to be the ones leading this kind of agitation if Yoruba leaders feel that they want and although you are a republic as they have been saying let them lead that revolution with intelligence with some sort of leadership not giving it to somebody who is going to carry or going to bomb with destroying things and doing rallies what was the point of the rally that has been doing really what has it achieved? Nothing but in the failure of that leadership because not just in the south-west and the southeast also people have also said that it's the failure of south-east leadership or Hanez Zendigbo, the governor, traditional rulers that has given rise to these persons and so this maybe should also make us examine who exactly we call leaders in different spheres across Nigeria I think you know I am one of the people that when I look at the picture and I see all the agitations I agree that Nigeria is an unfair situation I mean any problem with half a grain cell won't agree to that however it is the way you go about it do I want to say I heard them say before this is that they declare a war is a war, is a war, is a war do you fight a war with your mouse? the Boko Haram declared war and the government already just started attacking police stations one morning when we woke up and before we knew it they are doing around the whole country the problem is that do you want to be a terrorist organization or do you want to be a country? you have to decide so if Igbo has broken the law he has to answer for it he doesn't have to run away let him be a man and be brave to stand up and go to the DSS and explain the story and say this is what we want maybe from that point he can negotiate but I always want people like said these people will cause great problems and then they will run away and hide the man has to do us a new shape he will run and hide in Germany now the people that have died have died because the people that are going to continue to suffer for this will continue to suffer in some of them it will not occur to him after his administration he ran away and took off let these people continue to suffer and die look we cannot continue on this path we need what I call real leaders not these characters that just come and start preaching it without you know any basis and because at the end of the day even if you don't want it in Nigeria when you preach it even it is not like you are going to build a wall to separate yourself from the other part so let's imagine that you get your a duty of the Afro Republic those people that you preach it against what stops them from attacking you and hitting you in a war situation nothing so for me anything you don't do in love I will never support so would you say this basically is a fault of an inaction on the part of a government to stop this issue while it was still budding you know people talk about the Boko Haram insurgency but this is something that could have been twatted early early on instead of waiting for it to become full blown we also talk about Nnamdi Kanu and the whole Biafra agitation that could have been twatted early on as well and once Ndebuho came out with this whole agenda that that could have been stopped but people praised him, regarded him as a hero some you know former politicians in Nigeria also praised him saying you know he should be handled carefully so would you say that this is a thread of a government inaction just leaving things to it it's a little too late well it's a little both I would blame government all the way I would also blame the leadership of those regions because as far as I'm concerned what is the character like Ndebuho Nnamdi Kanu doing creating the narrative and running away with it what is the point of Ndebuho what is the point of Afeni Ferry they are the ones that should own the narrative because they are people who have built nations who have built who have built politicians they should be the ones who own the narrative but when they leave that vacuum because nature was in vacuum somebody else will jump in and that person will become a hero because the truth is that and you think about it in my lifetime and I'm 50 years old in my lifetime I would never even as a child look up somebody like Ndebuho I would never do it so for you to find that citizens, even people who have run are supporting this guy he should tell you how bad the government has done because the government is allowing all sorts of characters to be able to agitate for things that are not even possible as it should how do we get an Uduwai Republic without a war how do we get a Biafran without a war so it is a bit of both I think the government should have just called these actors as far as I'm concerned and put them in the room and say what is it that you want we don't want you to create this mess and this is why we don't want you to create but even if you fight a war you're still going to come back and tell you that when we're talking about nipping this at the board I'm going to refer to something I also mentioned earlier you may nip a Sunday in the board and maybe jail him for attacking communities you may nip on them in the board earlier but you can't necessarily nip the feeling of injustice among the people and no matter how many of these elements that you arrest or you nip in the board like has been said it doesn't stop the feeling of unfairness and injustice amongst the people and that's why these characters keep springing up because the people themselves feel unfairly treated they feel the level of injustice that is spread across the country Sunday is yes I think we would also say that their ways are crude and very very uneducated and like you said some of these things don't make sense and their approach is totally wrong but it doesn't change the fact that there's a lot of people both educated and non-educated who feel very very unfairly treated in the country and so there will always be some of all these things so that's what should have been nipped in the board the feeling of unfairness and being unjustly treated yeah I think look I tell you something right this something I've said a lot of times I said to myself I always say that I always ask myself that question I say to myself how do you solve a problem like this problem the problem would have been solved a long time ago but I never electing someone with a mindset like this because they know they know even when the Niger Delta was agitating I remember very quick about for those who were the rappers they called the Niger Delta people to Abu Dhabi this is after trying obviously to show a force method and it didn't work called them to Abu Dhabi to discuss with them when Good Lord Jonathan was a wise person as well the same thing happened and these are his own people the point I'm making these days is that bandits have been allowed to mingle with Sheikh Gumi go up and down make demands kidnap children and they're not getting any DSS treatment let me call it that and you are right that it is the unfair situation that is creating all these agitations but I always say that even when if because a madman is working on the streets and he's naked and dancing would you then take off your clothes and join him when these things happen the first thing to do is to ask yourself what is the way out? all these things are not the way out all these agitations all these driving Fulani people away creating revenge attacks they're not the way out they're not when you ask yourself what am I going to gain from this the answer is chaos not chaos and the point is that you already know that the people in Abu Dhabi are not doing anything to help you with the Fulani people or they're not coming from terrorists that are attacking you in your homes so if you know that then why do you want to antagonize them all because you know that if they come back to attack you nobody is going to help you so my point is this is there another way out and perhaps that's where we should be looking the agitations are fine I think if you want to say let's protect this let's take it to another level let's ask for our own country that I have no problem with whatever it is that you're at the table it is however the method and you cannot continue to say people like him will come because there are laws in the country we do not want people to bear arms and attack other cities whether they are Igbo or outside of you but the same way we don't want the government to go to people's homes and kill innocent people I mean what is fair is fair I would just say there are other ways to go around this and I think people should go around Thank you very much for your time this morning thanks for speaking with us and we hope you'll close that some of this information spreads across thank you good morning alright and that's where we will be wrapping things up this Friday morning and for the week we welcome you to the month of July we hope that of course it's a beautiful one for you if you missed out on any of these conversations remember to catch up on our social media platforms at PLOS TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram and yes please remember to follow us on our new YouTube channel on Instagram on Facebook as well as our new YouTube channel it's at PLOS TV Africa lifestyle my name is Annette Felix saying have a great weekend and I am Osaogi of Mawang see you at 9