 Hey there and welcome back to the non-profit show. I like to say back, because I'm making this big broad assumption that all of you have been here before. So I'm glad you're here for the non-profit show where we have Wendy F. Adams, CFRE with Cultivate for Good. And Wendy has brought to us a conversation and it's really the recipe for success. So you're gonna wanna get, I'm gonna say an index card because that's how we used to jot down recipes, but it's all about relational leadership. So stay with us because she's got some great information to share with us. Before we dive into conversation, we want to remind all of you who we are if we haven't met you yet. Julia C. Patrick is here. She is CEO of the American Non-profit Academy and I'm Jarrett Ransom, non-profit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group, honored to be here today. And also shout out of immense gratitude goes to our friends over at Bloomerang, American Non-profit Academy, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University. Also thank you to 180 management group, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, JMT consulting, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. These are the companies that invest in not only the show, but all of you and the conversations that we have here. And if you missed any of our 1,000 plus conversations, it's okay, we've got you covered. You can download the app by scanning that QR code. You can also find us on broadcast and your podcast channels. So Wendy, that's it for the housekeeping. We are thrilled to have you here today. When I met you, you have this bright light. You just shine into the community and I just am thrilled to have you on as a guest. So again, for everyone watching and listening around the globe, we have with us today Wendy F. Adams, C-F-R-E. She is with Cultivate for Good. And I would love, Wendy, for you to share with us a little bit about yourself and Cultivate for Good. Well, ladies, thank you so much. I'm so excited for today. I've been eagerly anticipating. So Cultivate for Good. Well, Wendy F. Adams is a recovering non-profit leader. And that's how I introduce myself quite often. I love what we are able to do in a non-profit space and leading out in that space. What I recognized most recently was that I could do a lot more out from behind the desk of one organization in helping to speak into leaders. Mission, we all know how important our mission is. They are hairy, big, audacious, God-sized goals, changing the world. And the importance of making sure that what we do every day is continuing to move that forward. That's where Cultivate for Good was birthed. I want to make sure that I can speak into as many leaders, executive leaders, board leaders, who are working in that space to make sure that they don't lose sight of mission and movement. And I don't want to get ahead and spoiler, but that those things got to be aligned. So that's Cultivate for Good. Well, I also love your logo. And for those of you listening and maybe not seeing it, it's really four people, different shades, together in a circle, which to me is so symbolic of a lot. So, Wendy, kudos to you. That's a beautiful, beautiful logo. Well, Julia, let's dive in, shall we? You know, absolutely. Because I'm really, I was telling Wendy and Jared this in the green room, when I put this slide together, I was like, it gave me chills because I had to reflect upon this, Wendy. And you kind of point out to start out, leaders drive the progress or they drive the problem. And it's a little bit of both. Sometimes it's, you know, one over the other. And I was like, holy cow, if there was ever something I needed to print off and put on my computer, I loved this. I can't wait for you to share with us what this looks like and what it means to all of us or what it should mean. Exactly, what it should mean. And Julia, it speaks to all of us or it should because it's a very intentional space. We can't be passive and think, there's no middle ground. You're either moving forward or you're going back. There's no middle ground in this space. And so the elephant in the room, and that's a lot of what Wendy does, if we were to cultivate, is to call that elephant out. We've got to start with, leader, where are you in this space? Be able to be self-aware and recognize where those changes may need to be made. And so a lot of my conversations with leaders, that's exactly where we have to start is where are you in this dynamic? Quick little story, seven years old, big girl bike, it was time to take the training wheels off. For anyone who's met me, five minutes in, you know, I'm pretty stubborn, I'm gonna get it done and I'm gonna do it on my own. I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm in this space too. And so I was gonna take those training wheels off in the midst of doing that without any help. Somehow I reversed what meant go and what meant stop on that bike. And so what I recognized was, I wouldn't go in anywhere. There was no mission of adventure and friends and not getting home on time when the street lights came on, I'm dating myself because I was not moving forward because what needed to be addressed was there was a problem and I needed help in it. So that's really where we start with this and how important it is for us as leaders to be self-aware, to be authentic, to be open and say, hey, I need help in this space. When you bring this up, when you're out in the community, if you're working with clients addressing leaders, is this kind of one of those aha moments for a lot of folks? It really is and sometimes we wanna stick it back in the box, like, yes, but, you know, and that's okay. That's the real space that we need to be in. Is it easy to say, hey, didn't get this right or I need help in this space, we're not moving forward? No, it's not, but let's face it. We know that our supporters and our donors and those that were there to help, they can sniff out anything that's not authentic. So we've gotta start with ourselves just being real. I love that so much. I'm really curious. So when we talk about relational leadership, in particular this first key topic, you know, do the leaders drive the progress or do they drive the problem? And you pointed out having self-awareness, what if they're not aware of their self? Like, how do we bring that element into the room? Yeah, Jared, I think that's a fabulous question. I really do. Well, and you're absolutely right. Most of the times when I'm being invited into a conversation, someone at least knows as a leader, this is coming or something along the lines of, I've gotta be open to change. But we do have to ease into that conversation. And there are usually others in the space who are on the front line, who's reporting to that leader, who's recognized this. And a lot of times that's who's introducing me. And so I'd like to have them alongside creating a safe space to say, giving examples, things like this, when you do, when you ask, and so that we can have conversation. This isn't a, you're doing it wrong. This is let's conversate on how we can move forward better together, but that that leader recognizes, they're the one who's setting the tone. Yeah, setting the tone and also aligning the team. Is that right? Because I won't get into, in fact, we have here alignment, alignment, alignment and just how much that plays probably a very critical role into the success of relational leadership. Talk to us about alignment, Wendy. And what does that mean when, you know, when you speak to your, yeah, your nonprofit leaders in regards to this. So what we, again, we started the conversation around mission and how important that is, but how many leaders can actually speak out what their mission is, mission statement, why are we doing what we're doing, right? Why? Then we can speak to the, what do we do before we can get anyone involved in the how? How can you come alongside and be a part of? And so that alignment space starts with knowing our mission, making sure we are all actually moving every day. What are the activities that we're doing? What are we bringing our volunteers into? How are we engaging with our board? What direction are we giving them? Is it actually moving the mission forward? It's a lot of my conversations in this space take us into that HR space where we say, we've brought in great talent, but they won't stay. They're not sticking. Why is that? Because they got so excited about a mission, but when they come into work every day, that's not what they're doing. It's not aligned. And now they're sitting in that space of just being stuck. Yeah. It makes me think, sorry, Julie, go ahead. It's fascinating because I think that a lot of times these ecosystems are going on, but we don't recognize it and we can't articulate it. And I'm wondering when you work with the nonprofit sector, do you find that people can't identify that there's a problem or that there's a direction that they can move towards? Or is it just general, I hate this, I'm done. I can't see a path forward or maybe use that word correction. You know, it's an and both, really. It depends on where we're meeting along the spectrum. They're just throwing their hands up. And so we have that opportunity to bring that conversation again back into play of, here's the example of when I felt this way. We all know there are enough assessments that are out there to tell us, speak into who we are, what's seen on the bus. You know what's more frustrating? Not taking the assessment, they're wonderful. But once I've hung that door hanger, put that plaque up, I've told you who I am, and then you don't interact and engage with me that way. That's a frustrating space. So if we can have all this useful information and then actually act upon it, that's the sweet spot in the conversation. When we're talking about frontline and leaders and how we can make this alignment really come into play and make the moves that we need. Yeah. And Julia, your question and my question are very much aligned, ironically. When do you hear often that people leave their boss, are their supervisor, not the job? That's right. How much does that play into this? Because I feel like it goes with, do the leaders drive the progress or the problem as well as that continued alignment, how does that show up? Well, we all know that the world that we're in, this space of nonprofit is all relational, right? We're working with people. There's great cause, but we're working with making lives better, changing family trees. So it doesn't change anything when we talk about how we relate to one another as far as there has to be that ongoing dialogue. You're right. People, there's actual grieving so often when we're walking away from the space that we're in because we love the mission and we wanna continue to see it come to fruition. I just can't do it with this team anymore. I can't do it with this leader who's not listening, who's not being curious, who's not stepping in. And so that's so often the space that we're in. Absolutely. Well, as part and parcel to that, you give us, and we'll put our chef's hat back on and the chef's apron, you give us four ingredients that we really need to be thinking about so we can look at this as a recipe. And let's start with influence for excellence. What does that mean? Yes, yes. Well, I think that we're seeing a theme here and I know we're around lunchtime for some. So, you know, there are these ingredients that are so important to making this work, right? For us to be able to move forward. Influence for excellence and recognize that word excellence, not perfection, right? What does that mean? And there is a difference. Perfection actually can get us stuck. We're back to that stuck space because until it's perfect, it can't move forward. What we need to encourage as leaders is for others who we're leading and walking out, they can come into an excellent space. That excellent space is we're gonna cross our T's, we're gonna dot those I's. We're also gonna create a safe space that says, hey, I need help or this isn't working or I don't understand or why are we doing it this way? And being able to question. You know, we would see that space of, I'm not sure I should be in this room. We'd see that significantly decrease. That imposter syndrome would come way down if we could really create a space of, we're gonna be excellent together. And that means what we do after we make a mistake and how we can come together not that I'll never make a mistake. And so that's where that influence for excellence as a leader really makes the difference in relational leadership. Wow, I love that because, man, I was just talking to somebody yesterday and from a nonprofit and they expressed exact same thing, how frustrated they were at the cadence with which the organization moved forward because everybody was so freaked out about being perfect and not moving forward. I mean, that conversation was less than 24 hours ago. So amazing. Now the next part of this magical recipe is mission possible. What does that look like? Well, for core value, what are we saying? Mission, mission, mission over and over again. Do you as a leader believe that your mission is possible? Are we just speaking out words? Or do we actually believe? You know, I love, I really enjoyed the movie Hitch. And so I'm just gonna take a piece of it. There's a lot of good and fun in that movie. Towards the end, two main characters, right? One gets called out. So Will Smith gets called out in the fact of, hey, you're selling this thing. You don't even believe it. You don't believe what you're selling. And do we actually believe that the mission is possible? We know that a donor and a supporter is gonna figure that out really quickly. If we're just spewing words and we don't think, well, we've got the internal stakeholders as staff and board who are, it's equally important for them to know. We believe that this mission is possible and that's why we're gonna move forward together. So do you believe that the mission is possible? Can it be attained? So that is so fascinating to me. And the one that comes to my mind, there's two, homelessness and hunger. And I know to eradicate both, right? Like we do, is that truly possible? And as the world changes, you know, economics change, landscapes of, you know, what is a quality of life and how is that affordable? Are you seeing in these conversations, Wendy, that true assessments are happening and leaders will say, you know, I don't know if it really is possible, whatever the is is. And then they readjust. Are you seeing that happening more through this lens? I am and the answer to it is collaboration. That's when I'm recognizing as the response back. You know what, we've got to make a course correction here because it's not all about us. We can't do this one word. But let's make sure that we're partnering with our neighbor next door who's addressing the same issue but has a different aspect and look on. And so we're recognizing, are we gonna eradicate it completely? But we could make a big dent in it better together. And so that's what I'm hearing and seeing and encouraging is that space of collaboration to be able to address these missions that are like I said, big, hairy, audacious, God-sized goals. I love it. I love that because I just, I think that's a better foundation for strength. You know, that collaborative issue. Now another thing you talk to us again, ingredient three, this is a simple recipe, right? Four ingredients, yeah, not so much, but really smart goals. Talk to us about that, Wendy. So we all know what smart goals are. We know what that acronym stands for. We've gone through the process of writing them down and walking through and assessing and halfway and do it. But are they really smart? Are they relational? Are we empowering people with these, as leaders when we walk alongside and say, hey, fill this document out because we need to have it in your file and we'll talk about it at the end of the year, is that all that it is? Are they authentic or just again, something to write down because we've got, we have to? Big one, are they loyal to the mission? Like are the goals actually in a space where they're staying loyal to the mission? Or is the mission here? And we're over here with the goals. Now we're, I don't know, in charge of a committee, but does that actually stay to the space of what's best for who I am and moving forward in the mission? Are they lasting and foundational or fluff? And we know that M stands for measurable. And so, I like to say in that really, that Y is a yardstick, because I wanna emphasize they have to be measurable. They have to be a measurable goal, not something that is arbitrary, because that's how we're gonna be able to work with one another and stay the course or know when there's need for a course correction. So that ingredient, so important. I'm really curious, Wendy, because you brought up the board earlier and hearing you talk about relational leadership, I'm hearing and taking on, it's more of the culture that is created and fostered within the organization. So if that's accurate, and if that's my interpretation, how are we shifting this culture to include all stakeholders, the board, the team, the internal team, I think is easier because we are with them more often. We are not, and then the next level, if you will, are the board members and then out from there. Is my interpretation accurate? Because that's really what I'm hearing and I'm loving it, by the way. Jared, you're definitely picking up what I'm putting down. And that is exactly it. You are. One of the areas that I enjoy that I don't think many of my colleagues do in for the longest time I ran from was board engagement, board development, right? We can get in that frustrating space. There are biggest volunteers or our strongest advocates, but please don't ask me to do anything more than come to this meeting. What I've recognized in this space is that we actually have to set those expectations so much earlier. It's not just about someone raising their hand and saying, yes, I'll sit on a board and come to this meeting. Well, what's their time, their talent? And yes, their treasure that they're bringing to the table and setting those expectations early to change that culture, because that's a big portion of why they are a board member is to set that cultural tone. And I think you're so right because I think what happens is when you have that misalignment, it's very easy for that board member to subtly disengage and they pull back and then they're never, your organization, they're never gonna champion that your organization, right? You know, they'll kind of row in the same direction but they won't really be a high producer. And so I love that you address that. We don't have a lot of time but I wanna make sure that we really get that final ingredient into the recipe and that's compassionate accountability. And Julia, the secret sauce, doesn't take long, we're just gonna, but you gotta have a dash of it, at least. Compassionate accountability. And it's an and both, it's not an either or. Compassionate accountability is one of those spaces of, I'm gonna empathize as a leader with you. I'm gonna get down in that hole as my friend, Renee Brown says, right? I'm gonna get down in that hole with you and understand. This sucks. This is hard. I'm so sorry. Let's not try to, I'm gonna try to fix it. And I'm gonna keep you accountable. In that space, I'm gonna keep you accountable to the goals that have been set and what you said that you were going to do. We're gonna do this together. As a leader, I'm gonna come alongside you and sometimes it's hand against your back, keeping you propped up and pushing you forward, but I am gonna be empathetic and keep you accountable and responsible to what you said. I didn't know what this was until a frister of mine, friend's sister, retired Navy officer, said that that's what she recognized on the other side of her time in the Navy was that that's the piece that kept her moving is when she had a leader who could see the hard and be there with her, but not let up on the fact of, there is championing that has to be there. You gotta stay accountable to the goals. We're gonna do this together. I experienced that myself and didn't have a name for it, but that's the secret sauce to the relational leadership and moving forward. That alignment space to happen is that you've gotta have a leader who's gonna do both of those things. It makes all the difference. What about teaching that to your C-suite leaders or just other leaders that you identify within the organization so that to use, to tag onto what Jared said, developing that cultural awareness within that organization that this is how we're gonna work. This is how we're gonna grow the organization. How do you do that as well? Well, you do, you do do it. And what's great for me in telling my story, I reported to the COO of the organization. We have four chief officers. So if one could bring this to the table, I made sure that I highlighted and said, this is something that has to become a part of our DNA. It has to be a part. And it can't be one of you. It's gotta be all of you. And it's gotta pour into the expectations of our board. So you speak it out when you see it. And then if you're not seeing it, now that we've put a title to it, making that real as an expectation. Also, when we're hiring new staff, right? Like when we're promoting new staff, this is something that we're looking for them to maintain as part of our culture. But when we're also looking to bring on new staff and looking for that cultural fit, it's really a litmus test too. How do they see an interpret relational leadership? And is that an alignment, alignment, alignment for the new hire and the team? I just think this has been fascinating, Wendy. So thank you for sharing your valuable time, your expertise. I feel like there are so many organizations, maybe all 1.8 million registered nonprofits that could use some of this coaching. Well, that's the hope. I really want to be able to share with as many as I can. That was the hope of why I stepped away and said, let's do this thing. Well, I appreciate it too, Jared. I think it's really a powerful thing to work with somebody who has been on the inside, who can give you that insider's view, but also at the same time be able to step back and kind of give an assessment of what that overview looks like and the magic of making some adjustments to move the organization forward. So those four ingredients, which I love, influence for excellence, mission possible, really smart goals, and then compassionate accountability is, you said, Wendy, it's that dash, it's that extra thing that gives you the chef's kiss. So you have been remarkable Wendy F. Adams, excuse me, CFRE, Cultivate for Good. Check out Wendy's site, CultivateforGood.com. There you'll be able to learn more about Wendy and her work and her approach to the nonprofit sector. And you're right, Jared, 1.8 million nonprofit organizations, they all need this type of thought process, right? You know, really, really, really powerful. In case we haven't met, I'm Julia Patrick, been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared R. Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, as Jared mentioned at the top of the show, we are here because of the support of amazing sponsors and they include Blumerang, American nonprofit academy, nonprofit thought leader, Stepping Boutique, your part-time controller, 180 management group, fundraising academy at National University, JMT Consulting, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out so that we can have these amazing conversations like we've had with Wendy today. Okay, Wendy, I'm gonna keep this cookbook thing moving, the recipe, chef's hat, apron, the whole nine yards. I'm gonna keep it going, it's great. Fantastic, thanks so much, ladies. I have enjoyed it tremendously. Great. Hey, everybody, as we sign off every day, we like to leave with this message and it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here next time on the nonprofit show.