 Welcome to this Information Services Today webinar on today's Core Information Services. This webinar addresses content from Part 3, Information Services, Engaging, Creating, and Collaborating with Technology, specifically focusing on Chapters 11, 12, and 13. This webinar is part of a 10 webinar series representing the diverse authors and topics of the second edition of my book, Information Services Today, an Introduction. As the editor, I am thrilled to be presenting this webinar series in conjunction with my textbook, Information Services Today, an Introduction. Hearing directly from the contributing authors as they reflect and share their insight on today's information landscape is a unique opportunity to glean from their expertise, both the opportunities and challenges that lie on the horizon. In his article, Why Libraries Matter More Than Ever in the Age of Google, John Palfre states that the library as an institution has been fundamental to the success of our democracy. Libraries provide access to the skills and knowledge necessary to fulfill our roles as active citizens and libraries also function as essential equalizing institutions in our society. Part 3, Information Services, Engaging, Creating, and Collaborating via Technology highlights the various roles both in person and behind the scenes that guide users through the information seeking process. The roles information professionals perform in providing information and technology literacy instruction to assist the user are also explored. The concept of user-centered design that takes the user's experience into account is also presented as are the models of the hyperlink library, creation culture, and makerspaces. In this webinar, Chapter 11 kicks off the section with a chapter devoted to reference services. Chapter 12 addresses the complex issues of metadata and cataloging, and Chapter 13 tackles the difficult issues of curation and preservation. Of tremendous value to this book are its contributing authors. These authors were specifically chosen for their expertise, passion, and commitment, not only to the field of information science, but also to the professional development of tomorrow's information leaders. I would like to now introduce the panel of authors for this webinar. Joanna Toonan is an adjunct professor at San Jose State University and the University of Maryland University College and serves as a dissertation chair for librarians and instructional designers in Nova Southeastern University's EDD program. She is the author of Chapter 11, Information Intermediation and Reference Services. Mary Bolan is a professor and catalog and metadata librarian at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln Libraries. She's also an instructor at the School of Information at San Jose State University where she teaches courses in cataloging and metadata. She is the author of Chapter 12, Metadata, Catalogging, Link Data, and the Evolving ILS. Catherine Skinner is the executive director of Edutopia, a not-for-profit educational organization that builds networks and collaborative communities to help cultural, scientific, and scholarly institutions achieve greater impact. She is also a founding program director for the Metadata Cooperative, a community owned and community governed digital preservation network with more than 15 member institutions in three countries. Catherine is the author of Chapter 13, Analog and Digital Curation and Preservation. There are six key themes for the second edition of Information Services today in introduction. Chapters 11, 12, and 13 address four of those key themes. These chapters all provide an overall state of the field beginning with the history of the information organization and key influencers to forecasting future trends and issues that will require information professionals to remain forward thinking. They also address how libraries and information centers will remain valuable entities in their communities, but to thrive they will need to remain creative, innovative, and technologically advanced. Additionally, they address new competencies, roles, and opportunities for information professionals. And finally, they address challenges and key issues in the field and for the sustainability and essentialness of the information organization. So Joanna, Mary and Catherine, what is your interpretation of these themes and how did they specifically relate to your chapter's content? Joanna, let's begin with you. So let's take a look at recent changes in reference services. These services reached a tipping point a few years ago in a number of areas and those changes have been consolidated since that time. For example, many libraries have weeded or moved print reference resources to their circulating collections to make room for other types of services as the move to using digital reference tools and bundled subscriptions has accelerated. Similarly, the method of providing reference services continued to evolve from providing from being provided at a traditional reference desk to multiple service point models that range from consolidating services at one service desk providing tiered services and offering reference services using increasing variety of modalities on one hand to consortial arrangements on the other hand that offered 24 seven reference services. We have also seen more libraries including their library staff in the provision of reference services, particularly in public libraries. Thus, there's been a move from offering just in case to just in time reference services. But not least the ability of users to locate information online has resulted in the continued transition of of patrons from you from asking questions about how to find information to asking about how to do things. For example, users are interested in getting help help with everything from how to download ebooks to to their Kindles and iPads using tools such as the Libby app and how to use 3D printers and makerspace tools on one hand to learning how to access and manipulate data sets on the other. Thus, we're seeing a continued shift from a focus on knowledge acquisition to knowledge creation. Thank you very much. Let's hear from you, Mary. Um, I would say that the four key themes I could identify from my chapter that I feel are linked to. I hope maybe all the other issues in the book and in library and information science in general would be the first one is standards. And I think that as a catalog and metadata librarian as a librarian in general. This has been clear to me, maybe for almost the last 40 years now that the key to bibliographic control to discovery to cataloging to creating metadata that can be shared is adhering to a shared standard. And that's a very complex proposition to come up with a standard that people can understand. They're willing to share. They're willing to adhere to and that they buy into as a means of delivering good consistent discovery data. It's often described as a phenomenon that started maybe after the US Civil War in the late 19th century, the cataloging codes and other sorts of standards began to emerge. That began to be more and more broadly shared throughout the cataloging community and the two goals of that standard have always been location and collocation. In other words, you should be able to find a known item. You should be able to bring things together by author title or subject. So adhering to those standards creating those standards continuously revising those standards requires deep and continuing and changing expertise in metadata standards systems and practices. And it requires all people involved in those processes to commit to the idea of continuous change continuous learning continuous adaptation. And of course continuous cleanup because once you have left one standard behind, you know, you've got some legacy data. And then the last thing I would say about that is this is closely tied to user experience and it demands from everyone involved in cataloging and metadata and related activities that they cooperate collaborate communicate with their colleagues in other areas and with patrons as well to help create the best and broadest and most universal successful user experience that is linked to rich accurate metadata in a very general sense. So that is my, that's my thoughts for the moment on those. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mary. And Catherine, what are your thoughts about the themes. Why why curation and preservation matters. And I want to start with just defining what is curation and preservation. So one of the best definitions that I've come across over the years is from the digital curation center in the UK. And what they say is that it's the series of managed activities that are necessary to ensure access to materials for as long as necessary. So I want you to note a couple of things here first that key phrase managed activities, which is absolutely the heart of curation and preservation. So having ongoing planned and executed activities that are that are genuinely intended to ensure that there's long term access access to content is what digital preservation and curation is all about. But I also want to go one or two steps beyond that definition to think about why we preserve. And so you'll see two quotes that I have listed on this slide, one of which says those who don't remember the pastor condemn to relive it. So even when you've got good historical records we often forget the past and suffer the consequences and one function of preservation is to at least provide the raw materials that show where we've been and what we've done as a culture. And then the second one is that we stand on the shoulders of giants. So today's innovations always depend on yesterday's discoveries and the more that we know and can discover about what we've already done. The more quickly we can build solutions to today's project problems. So, you know, overall in today's kind of fast paced future oriented world where things are continually changing Mary Bowen was just talking about this. You need the access and past as an imperative part of innovation and action today we have to be able to remember and build upon what came before. So for me one of the key components of preservation and the thing that really makes it so relevant in today's world is that preservation is really about access. So information managers of all types, librarians archivists technologists and curators in lots of different contexts are really preserving content so that people who are living today and people who will be living in the future can use it. And that's arguably becoming more possible than it ever has before because of the speed and bandwidth of information in digital form. So to wrap up this piece in today's information service professions you see both the need for and also the impact of curation and preservation everywhere you look. So in libraries archives and museums for sure but also in banks and legal firms and architecture firms and every other business type you can think of. So information science needs are growing across many industry types and you all the students who are listening to this are going to be poised to really take advantage of that in your own careers. Thank you so much Catherine. I really like what you had to say about about the connection to access. And really I think you could say that all three of your topics really are focused on access for the user for the past for the current for the future and providing it making content accessible through the metadata and through a reference. I wonder if you have any of you have any further comments or like to ask each other any questions or further observations that you may have. Well, Sandy, I would just say that I agree strongly with what you just said which is I was struck by Johanna and Catherine you know coming before and after me that how interrelated all the things we're talking about are and that discovery access preservation. There's there's so interrelated that I hope it encourages us all to keep talking to each other. Thank you. Anybody else have anything more. I couldn't tell if you're just talking or not. What I'll say is just that I loved hearing Mary Boland talk about the kind of continuous cleanup that is required today. I think it's one of the things and I look at it a lot in the digital realm especially but that need for continuously going back and cleaning up what we've already done is something that I think is is a theme across information that we wish wasn't true, but is and always will be likely. I guess I would add from the reference perspective that that the contributions of libraries are just part of the bigger picture now. And so from a reference perspective it's trying to provide users with not only library resources but all the connect them with all those other resources that are out there as well. Great. Thank you. Let's move on to director attention now to today's information landscape. The first edition of this book came out three years ago. And as you know the field of we've just been talking the field of library and information sciences and constant flux. So what are some of the key changes as they relate to your chapters content that have occurred since the first edition came out three years ago. We'll start with you Joanna. Okay. Well, from a perspective of reference services, I think because of the advent of the web has meant that traditional reference desk is no longer our users so gateway to information reference librarians are working hard to reach out and identify community requirements and gaps and services that need to be addressed. For public libraries this has meant finding ways to address underserved populations ranging from the economically disadvantaged and homeless to immigrant population seniors teens and more. For example, one way that my own public library has met local needs in 2017 was by providing almost 4000 meals to youth in conjunction with the USDA's summer food service program on a related note. Libraries are playing an important role in addressing the digital divide for decades but libraries are also finding new ways to address community needs. The development of innovative technology libraries such as the do space and Omaha, Nebraska, rather than offering access to print or ebooks this technology library provides the community with access to cutting edge technologies, software applications and training by would be entrepreneurs in the Omaha community. This helps bridge the digital divide and new and innovative waves. Academic and school libraries address the research needs of their students. And one important method is by providing students the information literacy training needed on how to locate evaluate and ethically use information. This is needed to help students learn how to identify and avoid using fake news that is being disseminated on the web. The concepts of media literacy and critical literacy that promote social justice also get addressed through the use of information literacy tools such as ACRLs frameworks for information literacy for higher education. Thank you very much. Let's hear from you, Mary. This has been and this is a very exciting and almost turbulent time in cataloging and metadata. Five years ago, we implemented a new set of cataloging rules, RDA, which is resource description and access that did not cause the kind of upheaval in the catalog in the database that some previous systems have caused, but nevertheless, paves the way for some really big changes. And Catherine, you're so right about the legacy data, the need to migrate, clean up, clean up, clean up all the time that we have to really kind of embrace that. So what RDA is going to lead to is the implementation of bib frame, which is a linked data model for cataloging data in which we won't have discrete records in a database, but we will have pieces of data linked together. And that requires a great deal of precision and understanding to express relationships between pieces of data. At the same time, I think in the world of the ILS and the library database, we're moving beyond just what we would have called cataloging mark data to harvest or include in some sort of discovery layer. It seems far beyond just what sits on a, you know, a shelf or a virtual shelf to things like the institutional repository image collections, thematic research collections, encoded texts and so on, and the real challenge and the real fun, in my opinion, to us is doing that harmonization and cleanup and the achievement of interoperability, which is what standards are for it's what they help achieve. So at the same time, I don't know, thinking big, trying to include all the patrons like you were saying Johanna all the underserved communities all the different kinds of people. So in devising a standard, adhering to a standard, moving forward with standards. We have challenges both from the data and user experience point of view. And so there I that those are my remarks on that. Thank you so much very Catherine what about you. Sarah so yeah things are constantly in flux as both Johanna and Mary have said and that's certainly the case in curation and pure and preservation, and really physical preservation and analog preservation continue to experience minor changes over time. But we've got established methods that that address most of our analog content types, and that's certainly not to say that all problems are solved by any stretch. As you'll see if you read for example in the section that that that's in my chapter on audio visual materials. But most of the territory has been mapped at least in physical property preservation and we know a lot about analog materials including what temperatures we need to have and what humidity levels work for different material types and what threats are most serious whether you're talking about vinegar syndrome for film or brittle book syndrome for paper. But in the digital, it is a swirling cyclone of chaos, we're more and more aware of how much is endangered or already lost so that's a big change in the last three years where we're getting more savvy about what we're losing. We're also getting more sophisticated at actually doing digital preservation and you can see on the right hand side of the slide. A lot of those pieces that are out there now that are components in our preservation toolkit, if you will. The content types that we're paying attention to are what I see the most changes in at a at a rapid pace. So for example just to highlight one of the ones that I mentioned here three years ago we couldn't possibly have predicted that one of the hottest areas of activity was going to be the archiving of federally funded data, especially things like climate data and other content bodies that have come under threat of disappearance due to changes in our political leadership. So scientists, concerned citizens, librarians, archivists, technologists, students, faculty, lots of different fields. There have been these kind of grassroots efforts that have come up in a mass digital preservation movement when it wasn't driven by libraries necessarily but certainly has been supported by it. And that's one of the many, you know, very important things that are happening today. But again, we could have never predicted that citizen driven preservation work back three years ago. And then the conclusion of what my thoughts are in this section is that the hot areas of work, you know, just like the content types are changing and morphing every time, we see areas of work that are changing significantly in the last three years. So digital forensics just a point to one is it started out as an area of criminal investigation. And now the tools that that have been used for a long time to stabilize and examine hard drives and media types in these kind of sensationalized criminal justice e-ways are being used by librarians and archivists to make sure that we can deal with the onslaught of born digital content and media types that we're dealing with in archives today. Thank you so much Catherine. That was really interesting to hear about some of the big changes that have been happening actually for all of your areas. Did you have any more thoughts or comments about the changes that we've been seeing and the rapid amount of evolution that we're seeing in terms of meeting user needs and managing content in different ways? I would have to say that from a reference perspective on one hand we're seeing patrons coming to the reference desk less frequently to ask for help because patrons can find their own information so easily. On the other hand, when I talk about the skills that reference librarians will need, I think one of the things we really need to be able to do is have the skill sets to find all that information that's out there that a simple Google search will not do. And I don't think that patrons always think to come and ask us for that because if they can't find it on Google, they sort of don't think it's there sometimes. Well, and I like Catherine, what was your phrase like a swirling cyclone of chaos, something like that. I think that's true. It really is. Yeah, we're encountering that in every area of LIS and certainly it's interesting from a metadata point of view when we look at digital objects and I think one interesting thing about digital preservation or digital archiving and metadata is the end of separation between the object and the metadata. Absolutely. It's not like book is here, catalog card is here or whatever, you know, in the olden days. Now it's really one thing all in one place together. Yeah. Great. Thank you. So now let's direct our attention to the future. What trends or emerging issues will impact the field of library and information science as it relates to your top chapter's topic. Joanna. Okay, so when we look at what the future will bring for reference librarians, I believe that the emerging trends and issues will include the challenge of identifying and selecting new technologies that can be sustained and are scalable while identifying and eliminating reference services that are no longer needed. For example, reference librarians will have to evaluate new tools for designing and delivering reference services and library training while deciding which current services are no longer needed. Those decisions will be driven in large part by the new information needs that are identified on a community by community basis. Additionally, reference librarians will need to continue to advocate for privacy and open access to information as problems with fake news continue to escalate in this post truth era. The need to protect access by making good quality knowledge open and accessible to all is becoming an increasingly urgent issue as and we saw that with the issue on government data. For example, as a result, it's important to advocate for solutions that can address the distortions and false words for information provided by a wide range of web services. For example, reference librarians can fry can help students critically assess predatory open access journals that are providing misinformation on topics such as medical breakthroughs. And similarly reference librarians can help faculty identify hijacked open access journals that are soliciting article submissions using the author pays model. Throughout this process librarians can advocate for the scholarly publishing of journals that has gone through the kind of rigorous peer review process that will ensure reliable information is openly and freely available to all communities. I believe that these issues will offer reference librarians increasing opportunities to collaborate with faculty researchers and publishers in tomorrow's publishing landscape. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. So let's move on to Mary. Okay, I guess when I think about the future. I would go back to something I mentioned earlier which is the revolutionary change that's about to happen in the framework for discovery for metadata for cataloging and so on. When we leave the mark format behind, you know, after about 50 years or more. When we implement the frame we moved into that link data environment that is going to create a really positive revolution because it's going to allow much a much richer discovery environment. And as I was saying previously it moves us beyond just the catalog the thought of just the catalog, which we've always thought of as our mark database, and is pretty print centric, even after all these decades. So as we are moving into these new kinds of discovery these new frameworks for discovery. It certainly demands that we're going to learn at a fast pace and continuously. We're going to be looking at different sources of metadata than we have now many other, you know, many more and varied sources of metadata. So I think it leads us to see that the library organization is going to continue to evolve but maybe is going to undergo a little more drastic or revolutionary change in the wake of these radical changes in how we do acquisitions cataloging and control and so on. I mean those old those old fashioned names that we still may use, but how we move into this 21st century discovery environment I think will have a really strong and positive and beneficial effect on how the library is organized as well. Thank you Catherine what are your thoughts. I wish I had a crystal ball. I'm not quite sure what we're going to see if I've learned anything from the digital revolution especially I know not to overpredict, but I'll describe a couple of things that I hope we see and then a couple of things that I fear we're going to see. So on the hope side of the equation, I really hope that we're going to see more blended approaches to preservation. So for example one project that I've been involved in this year at education Institute in partnership with the digital public library of America has been focused on increasing access to newspapers by marginalized communities. To do that the end goal of this project is really to expand access to LGBT newspapers and African American newspapers, and then we'll be moving on to Arab American newspapers etc and bodies of content that really have been attended to less in libraries and archives for a wide range of systemic reasons. To do this what we're doing is we're identifying what contents out there in thousands of libraries and archives around the nation and then what forms it's in is it physical is it microfuge is it digital and we're tracking the content the condition of those content bodies wherever we can. And then we're using that data not to say okay so we need to digitize everything and don't worry about this paper anymore, but instead we're using that data to say what contents and most risk of loss. And what are the reasons for that loss and how can we make sure that there are copies held in multiple formats not just in digital format, but in multiple formats. And so that kind of blended approach I think is really really important and I'm hoping that we're going to see more and more of that. Now on the fear side of the equation I really fear the increase in cloud based infrastructures that are supporting our digital content and that's not because there's anything inherently wrong with the cloud. The cloud is just a big server farm that's been branded beautifully by a few commercial partners. What I fear about the cloud is our over reliance on a small number of businesses, especially one Amazon, which now holds a tremendous market share of information in the cloud. And so that kind of putting all your eggs in one basket is something that I think we're going to be wrestling with a lot in the next five, 10 years. Thank you very much. Such interesting times that we live in it'll be very interesting to see how these things shape up. So, do you have any further observations, Mary Joanna and Catherine. I think one thing I would observe is this this has been really fascinating in the synergies, but among all the ideas I mean I feel like these three chapters and the authors present and the ideas that that we have talked about. There's so much crossover there's so much interaction there. And I think again it calls upon us to be open to communicate to consider new ideas to reconsider old ideas you know to to really examine what we do what we believe what we plan. And I'm sure if you picked any three chapters from your book that there would be there would be interesting synergies but I think this has been really fascinating in that way. Great thank you Mary. Okay, I agree with that and just very quickly say that I think, you know, one of the things that we're seeing in information sciences is much more crossover between the the partnerships and the need for different voices within the library so where you used to have very strong departmental lines, a lot of those are giving way and a lot of the rigid lines around particular job functions are also giving way. And so just echoing what Mary saying I think that that synergy between, you know, different elements whether it's you know reference and metadata and preservation or whether it's, you know, other functions I think you're seeing more and more of that synergy in libraries today and will be in the future. Great. Thank you. Let's move on now. We've addressed the changes of the past few years and some of the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead. But at the core of the information landscape are the people who work in these organizations who provide services to the communities that they serve. So that leads us to focus on today's information professional. What advice do you have for the new information professional to meet the needs of tomorrow's information landscape? And based on your area of expertise, what are some of the key competencies that information professionals will need to succeed in meeting the needs of their communities and the organizations that they serve? Joanna. Okay, so first of all, I think the changing role of reference librarians are resulting in changing job titles as well. As a result, librarians who serve the information needs of the public may no longer actually be called reference librarians. For example, we're seeing job titles ranging from distance librarians and liaison librarians to public service librarians and information service librarians. However, no matter what the job titles are, librarians who help patrons learn and acquire information will need competencies that include having strong interpersonal people-oriented skills that have a high-tech, high-touch approach to service. They also need to be able to use reference 2.0 social media technologies and possess instructional skills that can be used for promoting information literacy and creating effective webinars and online tutorials. Instructional design and graphic design skills are also a plus. Additionally, reference librarians will need to have specialized skill sets used to locate the kinds of information that cannot be located with the simple Google search, as I mentioned in the previous section. And we also need to have web design skills that can be used for creating effective web presences, online subject guides, pathfinders and more. And on a related note, librarians will need to have to be able to evaluate and assess reference services, reference collections and user needs in order to ensure that the effectiveness of reference services, but also to provide the data needed to collect that demonstrates and quantifies the value of reference services being created for the users. And last but not least, reference librarians need to possess the skills required to market library services and reach out to the communities being served. Thus, no matter what the job title is, the user needs or the reference services and how they may change, it's important for reference librarians to keep up with the new trends and technologies so that libraries will remain relevant and effective in the 21st century. Thank you, Joanna. And Mary, what do you think the competencies are that information professionals need? I guess the first thing I would say is maybe I'll just steal Joanna's list because I, you know, I think the things you said, apply to everyone in our very, very solid and, you know, very necessary. I think people have recognized that it's the soft skills as well as the expertise that everyone has to have. I think one thing I would advise new librarians about informational professionals about is metadata is an organization wide and beyond the organization activity and issue. So it's not confined to one room, one database, one activity. It's a very broad topic and I think we should be willing to give our input and be part of the conversation across the organization and beyond. Going along with that, I think it's absolutely essential that we have to talk with our colleagues, be able to do that, be able to listen to them to users of all kinds. And we've talked about underserved populations today, which I think has been very interesting. Who is our public? You know, are we all things to all people? How can we reconcile our mission with, I don't know, with who we think the public is? And then maybe most important is that sense of curiosity and excitement about learning and about change that we must learn new things all the time. We need to have that curiosity and that excitement about learning and that willingness and ability to say, okay, that was then this is now on to the next thing. Thank you, Mary. Catherine, what about you? First off, just a big ditto to both Johanna and to Mary because I think, you know, they both hit the nail on the head, so to speak. The thing that I'll add is that curation and preservation are just ubiquitous at this point. So it's not just a library, museum or archive thing. It's also there in corporate environments and nonprofit environments of all types. So when I'm advising students in information management about what areas are likely to be most fruitful for a career, this is definitely the kind of curation and preservation space I think is one that has a lot of different facets that can be mined in different ways. And one of the things that is so much fun right now as a librarian in this space is that all of a sudden in a way that has not been true in the past, I can talk to anybody about what I do and I can get it across to them. And so the competencies that you're going to be developing in curation and preservation spaces are going to map on to your personal digital archiving because every single one of us is dealing with these backlogs of photographs and music libraries that have come unhinged because it was first iTunes and then something else. You know, I mean we've got all of these digital problems in our own lives that make it really easy all of a sudden for libraries and librarians and archivists to talk to parents to friends to the general public about the challenges that that libraries face right now and why it costs so much and why these infrastructures are so important in today's world. And so in terms of ways to get started just very briefly. If you want to get started in this area, it's one of the fresher areas in libraries and archives and museums, etc. And so volunteer just reach out and you will find people who will very quickly be willing to work with you and you know embrace you as part of what we need in the next generation of libraries. Much, and I really, really liked what you talked about in terms of how some of the issues that we are dealing within our professional lives are getting easier to communicate or have other people understand because we are really grappling with these kinds of challenges in our own personal experiences. Mary, Joanna and Catherine, do you have any further comments on this topic about I thought there were some really good synergies about the need for the ongoing learning and the need for embracing that change and that Mary brought up. I think those are really great great points. One thing I would like to add is I think it's the points been made already I think it was Mary that talked about the need for communication between different departments. I saw that in my own institution where we didn't really move forward effectively until there was better communication across the fields instead of everybody being in their own silos. So I think that is a critical part for for libraries to move forward and to integrate more with all of the other resources that are out there. Thank you. Yeah, I'd agree with that and I've pushed it up another level and say that we also beyond just the institution we need to be working more closely together at the field level and then across the information fields so libraries archives and museums. The more coordination that we can build across the, the many different facets and styles and work that goes on in these spaces. I think that faster will be able to actually meet the needs of an extended public, you know, across those fields. And you know that feedback loop is a real essential part of assessment of library programs and services, but it can also be a less formal kind of assessment kind of data gathering in which we really do try harder to understand the individual goals of different functions or different services in libraries and information organizations. Thank you. Really great points. So I'd like to thank Joanna tune in Mary Bolin and Catherine Skinner for joining us today in this webinar on today's core information services. I'm very grateful to all of you for the insights and advice that you shared in this webinar, and for your contribution to information services today and introduction to the listener thank you for joining us. And a deeper understanding of the changes and challenges and opportunities within the field of library and information science and for more information please check out the supplement on the online supplement that's available to you. And I want to thank you all again.