 Mae'r cefnod yw fwyllfa mewn torturedwyf yn ei gwasanaethol, dwi'n gydig i chi'n cerdd o'r cestai'n casud o'r gwneud ac mae'n bwysig i weld y tymp dashboard i'ch bwysig i'r siwr i'ch bywyd a dwi'n gweld yn fwyfynion o'r byd yn teimlo gynnwys. Mae hi'n bywyd yn ei ddau, ac mae hi'n gydig i ni i ddim plinio ar y byd, ac dau i chi'n bywyd yn ei ddyleu'n ganddoeth. Mae'r bryd o'r pwysig rydyn ni'n pwysig i ni, Dwi'n gwneud i chi ddim yn y bwg ac yn ymddangos gyda'r cwylwyddi, yn y ffwrdd i'n ddwydiad. Felly, ychydig yn ychydig yn y ffordd i ddim yn y bwg. A gydig i chi'n gweithi, yn gwneud i'r pethau ar y cael eu dod i'ch gwybod hefyd, fel yna'n gyfliad o'ch cyflawn i chi, dyna'n cyflawn i chi, dwi'n gwybod i chi'n gwybod i chi ddim yn y clasdwym, i chi'n gwybod i chi ddim yn y bwg. Yn yw'n ei wneud ar y llyw yw'r Lwni. Mae'n amlwg ar dwyf yn dweud. Mae'n dwyf yn dweud. Rwy'n eivon i'w gwneud yn ôl. Mae'r 80-er i'w twyd. Maen nhw, mae'n cyflawni. Mae cyflawni, a'r adnoddau. Mae'w amlwg yma ar unrhyw ysgol. Mae'r adnoddau. Mae'r adnoddau. Mae'n amlwg yr adnoddau. Mae'r adnoddau. Mae'r adnoddau. Mae'r adnoddau. a oedd ydych yn gweithio yn ychydig i gynhyrchu ac mae'n cael ei ffordd i'n meddwl. Mae'r bwysig o'r hyffort i bwysig i gyd. Mae'n gweithio yn yng Nghymru, yma yw'r ffordd o'r Llyfrgell, ac mae'n gweithio. Diolch yn gweithio yn gweithio. A phwylwch yn ei ddweudio gyda'r Gyrddor, ddechrau'n gweithio. A ddweudio'n gweithio ai'r olyfrgell, gan hynny'n ddaf yn ymwysig. Felly yna i mi, mynd i. Rwy'n fawr i wneud 30 yw hon yn y brygais DJI. Rwy'n fawr i ddechrau yn ymgawr. Fawr rhywun. Rwy'n fawr i gŵr. Mae'r ond! Cen oeddech ar-reif. I'll look it up and to see how hard you're on there, boy. Nid i. Mwysiwn i, mynd i. I'll look at your example. Nod i. Nid i geto ni, pan fyddech'r gis. O'r ffordd, mwy o mi. I wrote about Scali. Scali. Scali, you wrote about Scali. Rwy'n ei wneud, dyfodol ychydig i gyd yn ymddangos iawn... Rw'n ei fydde i gyd, rwyf arall. Rwyf eisiau gwneud yn ysgrifwyd i gyd sydd ei wneud yn f aprender. Rwy'n ei fod yn ei wneud yn ffrindu i Llyfrgrin, rwyf yn ei wneud pan fydd o ffordd yn ysgrifwyd Cymru. Rwyf eisiau yn sefydlu Jacob, Fel gan eisiau gwneud yn ei bwysig? Rwy'n ddiwedd, ason ni! Prwy'n ei wneud y ddweud, roedd gennym yn ffangoid wych. Ond eu bod yn ymlaen i'r cyffredig yn ei wneud cyntaf, ac mae hwnnw i'ch bod yn oed yn ymddillel, pa ydych chi'n gymaint o'r gwasanaethau fel faint i ddwylo, ac mae'n beth o wneud i gael ar gyflwydoedd, ac mae'r blaen i ni i chi i gael yma i chi? Mae'n beth sy'n gweithio'r bobl o'r bobl o'r maes i mwyaf ar gyflwydoedd? Not literally but as someone who was involved in that far too much if you like. But with a lot of other stuff in it, it's not just a football story, it's just growing up life and stuff like that. So I'm looking at it now and I think there's a lot of material there, cos as long as I can remember, I've just always been getting into trouble and that's gone right through my life up until a few years ago. So like I say, a little bit of closure on it if you like. I'm 16 next year and when that comes out there, that'll be closure. Case closed, move on next chapter. No more books. Always go back to the start for my guest Andy, where you grew up and how it all began? Yeah well I could still get the shtick off the likes of Billy and the lads. I'm pure woolly back mate, I was brought up in Flintshire and grew up, I was raised there. My dad met my mum in the air force in the Second World War, she was a flint girl, my dad was a proud Englishman, he dumped everything, lived over there. One of five kids, the youngest by a long way, I think three of me, two brothers, two sisters, I could only remember me and one older brother living at home, they'd all left by the time I'd kind of ever remember. Tough council estate in Flintshire, same as most people who kind of lived the life we've lived. It was tough, rough, you had to fight, you had to do a great deal, no one had any money. I see Marcus Rashford now and hats off to him, champion in child poverty, I'd like to have seen him around in our day. That was child poverty mate, you'd be out all day without a fucking bag of crisps or something. Whereas nowadays, if your kid hasn't got a big phone, they look, they think you're in poverty, and it was tough mate. We brought up, basically from early on in life, you're like, big steel borrowed fault, right through to school, I went to school over that way and I fucking hated every minute of it mate, I was just never one for, I don't know, being able to sit down and have some twat telling you you've got to do this, you've got to do that, and I'll be honest, the education system failed me miserably like, it was full of bullies and violent people, you know, and that was the fucking teachers. It was horrible and I just hated it, I couldn't wait to leave school, and I got my wish, like I say, school, first memory of school I've got, there was a lad here from out of state, Grayevs, he sadly passed away, but he was a tough, tough lad. And this taught me a lot of respect this, and obviously you have to bring this into your life in the end, because a lot of people who fall the wrong end of the law, if you like, they looked upon us as not very nice people, but I like to think as kids we all have respect for older people. But I'll never forget about the second day in school, this lad said to me, I come here any minute, Grayevs, he was like a mentor for us, you know, the hardest lad in the school, and I was just teaching Mr Baxter, they all come out of staff room, and he walked funny, you could see him after the first day walking funny, and this Grayevs said to him, just say when he goes past, sir, have you got your shoes on the right feet? I was like, ah, just fucking say, all right, if you'd say anything he'd say to do, and this teacher come fucking limping past, and I said, all right, sir, have you got your shoes on the right feet, and you could see every teacher looking, and the next minute he fucking grabbed me, hit me with his book, and he had me head in the locker, smashing the locker on my head, the worst hide I ever had up to that age, and he dragged him off, and this was fucking educated, high school, nowadays you'd be jailed, but anyway, he got him off, and he fucking took me, I don't forget, took me home in this old mini, and my old lady was going mad, fucking big eye on me, big lump on me head, and my dad came home, and he went to see the careers master who lived up the road from us, fell a call Mr Pulsby, you know, he always remembers these things, and he come back, he says, right, I'm taking to school in the morning, fuck off to bed, get to bed, went to bed, took me to school the next morning, and this fella had to come in with the headmaster, and like a teacher's union fella if you like, and I thought, fucking hell yeah, gotta get fucked in here, and he said first of all, can I apologise, and my dad said no, leave it a minute, he said apologise, so Mr Bax apologised to him, and I was like, you know, he's apologising for what you said, I said, sorry for what I said, and my dad says, right, come on, we're going, he'll never say that to you again, get back to school, and it turned out this fella had been tortured by the Japs in the war, and had all the screws on his nails and that's what it was, and my dad being a proud military man, he thought I deserved that idea and he probably did, and he thought you know, for a lot of the time there, he's got to have respect for these people, and that's my only memory I have of school in the early days, and I thought this fella, fucking bother him with this place, it's horrible. Were you fighting back then on the schools with other people then? Yeah, well, I mean, remember when I started high school, I was pretty much the same size as everybody, and the first day we were there, we went there and some lad was bullying someone, and I remember just fucking headbutting this lad. Most days, kids 11, you didn't used to headbutt, I fucking headbutt, I cleaned this twapper, I cleaned him out. Years on, he had sadly died now, years on I was meeting him, Carl, and he was like different primaries school, you know, meeting, he was like a bit of a, and I remember fucking planting head on him and like fuck off you, and then do you know what, mate, for a couple of years, everyone was getting bigger and I didn't fucking grow, and I was like the smallest in the year, and then as, as school got on further and further, I was like, I was getting fucking bullied, everyone of you had had a bit of an art with after the first year was coming back and haunting it, and I fucking had the time, just getting bullied left, right and centre, of people who really, if you had stood up to you, the fucking well-eat, but you didn't have the balls to do it. And then, as luck happened, it changed my life, I started going to the match, I'll add a couple of years older, I was always a big Everton fan, but I never ever went, it was like, you know, I was half an hour or 40 minutes away, I had to get there, and I went, a couple of games, and it just blew me mind, the naughtyness of it, the smell, the horrible, it was fucking horrible. A few weeks before I went to my first Everton game, my brother-in-law was a big red, and he took me to Amfield, and we sat in the seats, and they were playing Stoke, and they won 2-1 Liverpool, and then Gorbin Banks, it would have been about 10-1, but for Gorbin Banks, and I remember coming out and he said, you live a Liverpool fan now, cos he knew I was a bit of an Everton fan, and I said, no, Stoke, cos of that fucking goalie, and he was like fucking, man, okay, you know, waste a fucking three quid, that was taking it. And a couple of weeks later I went to Everton, never forget they played Leeds, Leeds were unbeaten, Leeds were going for the league, and it was madness, mate, and I look back now and I think, fuck, and I was hooked from that first game, hooked just with the whole place, I mean, I love football, don't get me wrong, football was something that I watched and admired, but the actual fucking buzz around the whole place and the naughtyness just had me hooked straight away. And then we went to a few more games, and then that pre-season, I left school I was thinking, do you know what, a fucking going to football matches here where you can be seriously hurt, and I've got a couple of dickheads in woodwork putting fucking shavings down my neck and all that, and fucking stand up to them, and I remember the first lesson back, two lads come up and like, you know, I haven't seen you at all summer, whack me down the head, bang, smacked one, fucking rolled over, through this fucking door into a classroom, fucking headbanging. I'm like, what the fuck's happened here, this fucking, it's only been off six weeks, you're turning into a fucking lunatic, and I never got bullied, mate, from that day on. The only way, mate, was to stand up to them, and they're horrible, horrible, horrible people, but I've just found school was full of it, mate, and I hated every minute of it. When did you start getting involved in the violence at Everton? At the football, well, I mean, you're always just on the outskirt to it, aren't you, when you're kids, 13, 14, unless you're a big uni, you could get seriously hurt, but you're always had to be part of the little, your gangs going everywhere, and then we started going, I remember going to Bristol City, I was probably about 14, and we come out on the ground, and there was a massive kick-off, maybe run over and give someone a kick up the arse or something, and then, I think it was about the last year I was in school, 79, we went abroad on a pre-season tour to Antwerp, and it was fucking bedlam, mate, that was a different level. It was absolute bedlam. Just the fact you went abroad pre-season, there was no, like, policing bar. And I come back from there thinking, fucking hell, I want more of that all the time. It was like an addiction, and it's, I don't know, people, I'm sure clever the people in me have tried to explain it, and it's just tough, it became an absolute addiction for me. We've had lying, I've watched some of your shows, make drugs, drink, gambling, whatever. Never really an addiction for me that, but the buzz of the football and what went with it. At the end of the day, it was a bit of a youth culture, but fortunately, I look at it like the mods and rockers in the 60s, they fucked up everybody's weekends, didn't they, and did the same kind of thing. But they helped sell records, the music part, so people actually gained money from that culture, whereas what we did, I take no pleasure in saying it, but football to its knees, didn't it, killed the game. You've got to see some of the attendances in the early 80s, Chelsea's 6,000, Everton 8,000, part from the likes of Liverpool United that had massive support anyway. But they'd still only get 25,000 sometimes, because it was horrible, horrible places to go, and unfortunately the culture regenerated, caused all that, and it did it once, I brought football to its knees. What's your first proper terrap you were involved in? Probably, I'd say Antwerp in 79, that was just, I say all across the terraces, and then we started going, I feel I haven't made a bit shit at the time, so we started going to some England games, some lads by us, because they were on the graph then, there was lads from all over the country going away. I remember Luxembourg about 81, 82, it might be, and it was just the first time I've ever seen, not just the police, but the Luxembourg army got chased, England would just be lentless, looted, fucking took everything that wasn't nailed down, trouble between themselves, mental, absolutely mental. If that happened in this day and age, mate, it would be just headline news in every country in the world, the behaviour in them days, and I say nothing to be proud of, it was just how it was in them days, absolutely nuts. Is it in your book you said there was a thousand of yous at some games, and one in ten carried on it? Well, you know, I think in a lot of clubs there was an awful lot of nasty violence, and you see people now they say knife crimes on the rise then, I think particularly in the 80s, in the 70s a little bit it was more gangs and territory and taken ends, and there wasn't that much kind of pure nasty violence. In the 80s, you know, it came out, and there was people killed, people stabbed, slashed on a weekly basis, you know, there was some games you'd read in the paper, 22 people were slashed. It's madness at the time, but at the time it was just how the game panned out and what was going on off the pitch panned out, and as they say it did it, it brought football to its knees and it killed it. What was your nickname, the cutters or something? Everything, yeah, it's a bit of a myth, we made a big flag once with the county road cutters on it, and that stuck, and it's a little bit of a myth, but there was lots of different. What did that mean, you called it a knife? Yeah, so the county road was where all the lads drank and that and the cutters because if someone went down there they got cut, but it's a bit of a myth. But a few people made good money out of flags on it and badges, you know. Were you fighting every game, Andy? Well, in the 80s, if somebody brought a group of fans basically to any ground in any of the leagues, they'd be trouble, wouldn't they? So it didn't matter if it was Leeds Birmingham, Everton Walls, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Man United, fucking Leeds, it was just mass disorder and then you go to the likes of London. Fucking hell, you'd die out in London, it'd be like it'd be no summer special, you know, you'd be going there and you'd, fucking hell, there'd be six or seven clubs playing there and you'd be on the underground and it'd be absolutely nuts, you know, the stuff that was going on down there. Every time your train pulled into a station, there could be like fucking 200 mill more there, under Tottenham going somewhere else across London, it might go across to King's Cross and there'd be 500 fucking Leeds, just coming off the train and it'd just be fucking mental mate. And I only think I can't understand and I can't get me at how more and more people weren't fucking badly, badly hurt and killed, it's just madness. How many feet, so you're in possibly more than one feet in some days? Oh. Some days, you'd get on the train, you'd get off a crew and someone would be changing a crew, you'd have a fucking set to a crew station, you'd get to Euston, you'd have a set to there with someone else who's coming up north, you'd go across London on the tubes and there'd be a load of mitha on somewhere. fel rhywbeth yng Nghymru. Mae'n fyddug i'r ffordd gyda'r ffordd. Felly iawn yn ei ddweud yn rhaid i ddweud, ond mor diwg ymchwilol yn y alone. Felly, yn rhaid i'r ffordd, r�s yn mynd i'n ffordd ad yn ei ddweud yn y mynd i'r rhan o gwyrdd. A'r rhan yn gwybod, efallai yna i fyll truly oedd y cyfyddiadau yn rhaid. Felly, mae'r ffordd yma yn ôl yn rhoed. Felly, y llythio, mae'n gwir allan o ffordd. well, I don't like about it now people say yna, it's bullshit whfoca nell, when you were, when we were doing it, there was no one innocent to it that's fucking nonsense, how can you pull in a crew station and fuck a big set 2 goes off, there might be some fuckers going to Alton towers or something like that and you will be caught up in it or West Dam go on the north bank at Arsland, and charged down and whfoca'n women and kids at the front it's bullshit that only it was only then because it involved everybody didn't it and that's what it drove away from football Mae'n ddyn nhw, mae'n ddigonwch i'n meddwl i'r cyffredin ni. Mae'n ddiddordeb yn ffraeg yn hollu'r yr agfyrdd. Mae'n ddiddordeb yn hollu'r cyffredin ni, ac mae'n ddiddordeb yn hollu'r cyffredin ni. Mae'n dechrau, mae'n 30 o 40 o'r gweld, mae'n oed yn y tîm amser 80? Yn y tîm, mae... mae'n mor gwybod i'r ddiddordeb i'r gwrs, mae'n oed yn y tîm. Mae'n ddim yn ddiddordeb o'r ddiddordeb. felly we went to Chelsea on a Friday night, Chelsea was suppose on the top firms and took the piss a bit and a few weeks later went to keep the army, got spanked. On a day anybody could turn up anywhere and come and miss. Numbers united had one massive, Westam organised, but you know I think anybody who was at it at the time should be given the respect from the other firms, they don't mean the general public, you know they'd be looked upon as a disgrace, but the ones who were active at the time I think everybody should have the respect for everybody. I know there's a lot of stick people saying all grown men shouldn't fight, what do you think about that? I agree with them now, but at the time it was in through one ear out through the other because it was a culture that you know you're involved in and I mean I was fucking out jobs, obviously fines, a little bit of jail and I couldn't do it in lives, can't it? But you still went back for more you know, I got banned at 89 for two years, the bans were as strict as you were, I still went a little bit, but the minute the ban was up you were back at it, you know why? I don't know, it's a daft one mate, I can't. Just people thrive on it because I've interviewed a few football casuals and I've got it bonus that I know a lot of people give each other a stick now, but everybody's been proper diamonds like the big guy, big bow down to Hawkins, he's taught them, I've bowed Gardner Westham, I've had Baz Bannington. I've never met Dante, I mean he's more of the younger generation, I've been in Bill's company, absolute gents, you know a legend of a man, you know you could take him for dinner with your missus and kids and that. And he think he's just a lovely old grandfather that you've met from the bowling club or something, he's one of the most feared men in London at the football. And people would look and go, you're in me, I fucking laugh at you, I know he's won out Baz, you know, people like that. But I just think you've got to put it into perspective, you know I mean we started doing the little tour, you know you've had Carlton on Carlton's legend of a fella for many other reasons. He's just released a new book so I'll give that a plug man. You know Carlton's a great fella, but we started doing the functions like a little road show with fucking even road show. Cass you know, let's not leave Cass out of it, Cass has earned a lot of the casual lads and awful lot of money by keeping the culture going. But I think at his own admission he probably takes it a bit too serious, you know he started this fucking casual road show and we were going, I remember one night, do you want to come on this? Fucking 500 quid talk bollocks and nottingham, I'll go like. Get there, there was me, Cass, Carlton and Boatie, great lad, Gary Clark from Forrest, fucking diamond of a man, absolutely top top draw. And we were all getting set to chat that fucking load of bollocks, whatever we're going to do. I went in the green room and I remember me and Boatie and a couple of his pals come out like fucking Tony Montana, fucking like this, fucking yeah, you know. And Cass said, fucking hell lads, be more professional. And I was like, fucking professional. Load of fat baldy dickheads, fucking legging Luxembourg in the 80s, what's it to be fucking professional about? And then he fucked us off, I wasn't invited on with the one again because he's not being professional enough, talking a load of shite. Can't take it too serious mate, it was something we did as youngsters and maybe a little bit further on into our lives but luckily enough most of us have turned our lives around and we're still here to tell the tale. And I think, you know, we're judged by the success of the books and that it is a tale to tell because a lot of people are interested in it, aren't they? Whether it's sociology, criminology, fucking uleology, if that's such a word, I don't know. But it's of interest to an awful lot of people and I don't know, you know, if people can make money out of it, particularly at the level like Sir Cass and people at Best of Luxem. I won't have anything bad said against him there, apart from the fact, let's keep it fucking real, you know, let's not be true. It wasn't as fucking professional as what people are making out we are, you know. What's the best crap you've been in? Best big fight, fucking hell. I think that Chelsea on a Friday night would have took some beating, you know, because a few years before Everton had come a cropper down there and it was always one of them. I mean, the lad at Transalpino, jockey, he made t-shirts and there was a thing painted on Lime Street on the wall, ordinary to Chelsea. So instead of getting the special train, everyone was supposed to get a service today in the ordinary and it was a famous quote and we went down there. Fucking hell, it was, you know, you repay something like that. It's like when you may be being beaten five nil at home by someone and then you go away and win six nil. And it was just one of them nights, everything comes together and we won. It was just a bonus like, but we've had some good days out, some bad days out mate. If you've said, if you come in and any football programme, any football lad and say you've never took a backward step or you've took a bit of a clock or you've come off second best, you're talking bollocks to me, honest mate, cos we all have. What's that like getting a second prize from a tear up? How does that hurt your pride? Ruins your fucking day mate. We, far too, you know, it wasn't the 70s and the 90s. We had a thing going with Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough where I think pound for pound Middlesbrough have been for years, one of the best firms out there because the big lumps, it's a fucking rough old shit all in it. And they were fucking, that's all they got to do was go to the football and we had a thing with them and everything. Usually your local rivalries are United City, fucking Liverpool to a certain extent. And we had this thing with butter like a fucking ding dong for years and fucking hell, they come here one day and we were in the pub, thought they'd long gone and then one of the lads had a call so fucking hell. They're walking down, they're walking to Lime Street and when we fucking came on side and we went in these couple of pubs and we emptied on them mate and they had to go but we fucking batted them like. One of their main fellas, I'll tell you a funny story about him and fella Paul Debrick, the brick, fucking monster of a man, he was on the phone after fucking you look and we were playing him on Boxing Day, fucking come here Boxing Day. And I was going, we'll be there, don't worry, don't worry mate, we'll be there. And I liked the fella, got on well with him. Fucking hell, we went on the Boxing Day on a coach thinking we're all right, you know, we had this fucking, this little firm, Snorty 40, they were called. Stoke with a naughty 40 and one day the lads seen us and he said, that's a fucking Snorty 40 then like, you make your own mind up on that. And we went to Borough, I remember we parked up by this pub and when the dorm had come out, he said, Nichols, he said, this here, I said, yeah but all right, good fucking 50 lads. He said, get back on the bus and fuck off, you know, she's going to get killed here, everybody's out and I was like, yeah, we all right, don't worry. Fucking hell, five minutes later we wish we'd have got back on the bus, you know, it was fucking, I'll make they come from everywhere. Got chased back to the bus and the police fucking saved us. I know Paul was on the fucking, he come up to after about a bus going off, yeah fucking, I stood to know this. But funny story about him, when all this fucking celebrity stuff started coming, they want you on programmes and all that, don't they? And he phoned me up one day, Nichols fucking, what's up, what's this loon he want now? He said, we're going on the Jeremy Kyle show, I said, you're fucking, I'm not going on that mate, you're fucking fruitcake, you're not happening. He said, no we are, we're on it, I said fucking mate, and then you, how much? He said 500 quid each, three of us, 1500 quid. I said, no, I'm not doing it mate, I've got one fucking Danny Dyer or fucking whatever, I'm not going on the Jeremy Kyle show. So next man, this fella phoned me up, he said, all right, he said, you don't want to come on. I said, no, he said, well how about if you were the one in the audience who's saying that you've reformed and rehabilitated and all this. I said, yeah, I'll do with that, I'm not coming on sitting next to him and he's fucking bollocking you, didn't I? He said, and then Paul and this other fella from fucking Darlinton's is going to be in the seat. I said, yeah, I'll do that mate, so next man, he's on the phone, you're on, you're on. I said, yeah, he goes right, your job is when I smash fucking Kyle in the face, you block the bouncers. I'm like, what? And he was going to do it live on the telly, the minute Kyle Jeremy Kyle said something, he's going to fucking welly him. And I'm like, you're fucking, he's not fucking joking here because he's nuts this lad. Anyway, luckily enough, he told that many people he's going to do to cancel the fucking show a few days before. And I was like, thank fuck for that, you know, because that would have been horrendous. Yeah, they've got a five. Oh, he's got a fucking, but he didn't give a fuck. And sadly, I work abroad a lot, I used to fuck off abroad now. And I never forget mate, it was a sad day, I was in Copenhagen in the Elton, fucking about. And sitting in the bar on the phone with that lad from Darlinton, Willow, Andy Willow, great lad. And he went, all right mate, I've heard about Debrick and I'm like, fucking hell, what's he done now? And he said they found him dead this morning. Far too young, you know, but abuse for some sort. I don't know what he's, I don't know what killed him in the end of that pack then. But he was he was again a great lad. And it's just far too many have gone that way, whether it be through drink, drugs, steroids, you know, steroids are fucking evil, evil, evil thing mate. So, yeah, that was that was that was sad, but that was that typical of him. And then, you know, like you say, some of the other stuff we went on, we got roped in on the fucking Danny Dyer show. What was that like? I had a bad experience on it to be honest, because it didn't do me own work. The first big one we went on was a fella from France. I think his name was Christophe Weber or something. And he was a top documentary maker of the wars and everything. And he came as the first one to do it. And he came over and he sold us this show set called Fucking Hooligans, that's what was called. All subtitled in France, Germany, whatever. And he I think got in touch with me through the publishing. And I said, I'm not interested fucking hell. And this is a couple of grand fucking hell where do I sign, you know, talking a load of shit about where you've been. And anyway, this fella come over from France with a TV crew. And I was involved just involved in non-league football at the time. And he wanted to follow me to the ground and watch me do a team talk or a training session. And there was a piece of piss and it was all right. Everybody got on and I think he did about four or five different clubs. And it came out and it was highly acclaimed this documentary. And I think that's where the real football factory, if you like. Danny Dyer was in the football factory, weren't it? Many started making these documentaries, the real football factory. And they paid us a bit of money. They paid some people more than others. I probably one of the best paid for them. I got a grand, I don't know. But they were getting a group of people sky at the time to go around all these fucking daff shows. Fucking hell, Britain's roughest fucking seaside resort. Britain's roughest pubs, Britain's fucking worst kebab shops and fucking all this. And it was the same group of people on it. And there's a great lad with a really good friend of mine. Sadly passed away a few years ago, Colin Blaney. He wrote the grafter's books, proper old man United old school. And he was on them. And he brought one of my news old lads, Eddie Beef, who in his day was a proper handful, who very sadly passed away a couple of months ago, Eddie. And we were doing all these different things. And it wasn't long after there was a big set to a goodness in Evan United, the Battle of Evan Valley, they called it. I was banned at the time, I wasn't even there, but they wanted us to talk about it. And they got Blaney and Eddie to meet us in the pub, and we had this bit of a chat. And we got stitched, to be honest, because we had to go and meet Danny for a walk on the ground to talk bollocks to him. And these two fucking pair stayed in on the ale. And the likes of Eddie and Blaney, if there was a free bar there, they'd fucking smash it to smithereens, never mind. And I've come back in the pub and they were fucking let go, you know. And it was one of them, you go, just go and get changed, put a different top on so it looks different from the walk around with Danny in that. And I could hear Eddie fucking, and I used to sing that, what's it the fucking song? Let it be, and he'd put his own Eddie beef. Eddie, fuck, it's going to be hard work, like, come down. And then they took Blaney then to the talk with Dyer, and me and Eddie were interviewed. And you know what, games, we must have had half an hour of ripping each other to bits and top banter. And he was fucking winding me up, and he said something and I bit and said, you're chatting fucking shit now. I shut the fuck up on that. And then when it come out, that's what they showed. They cut all the laughs out on that. And to this day I regret that because it made Eddie look fucking stupid, and he was far from fucking stupid. I wish we could have seen that before he went out, but they said, you're not fucking doing that. But that's what happens with these things, you know what I do. I did a fucking panorama once, mate. I was in Spain on holiday with some lads, and this fella said, do you want to go on panorama next week before the World Cup? Fucking panorama, the fuck going off. I said, do you want your honours, this fucking expert? Fucking panorama. I was like, fuck it, you know. Go on, if you want, yeah, what's the money? I thought BBC don't want to pay you, I'm fucking going anyway. If I don't get you 500 quid, landed, fucking hell on me with fucking hammering it. And they asked us loads of questions about your parents in the war and all this. And I remember just saying, he said, I said, from an early age, all my grandfather described the Germans as with German bastards, because they fucking bombed his streets. The heat is on it. My grandfather had been dead fucking 20 years, so he would have been, he was in the First World War. And I've worked in Germany, I got in great with them, and then on in this panorama programme, they'd switched to the thing, or what have you got to say to the, and had me going German bastards, and that like, and thinking, when you're ever going to fucking learn, you know, then you do it again, you're fucking going another one, and so we're having a good look at this one before it goes out mate, fucking hell. You know what I'm saying, and that's what it is. We were stitched for it, but it was, I mean, we weren't, we didn't have to do it mate, but with the publishing companies, you're obliged to do it for selling the books and stuff like that. Business mate, but I think some of it, in the end I just stopped going on and you know, we could have gone on fucking all sorts of different ones, and I knocked them in the end mate. They would have used to say, after fucking 10 years, after book them out, we'll give you a book of mention, so fucking hand spinning, it was in the best sellers for five years, it doesn't need any more fucking mentions. What was it like, what's the difference from firms here and the firms abroad? Cos they alter us in that abroad, little fucking psychopaths. Is that a big difference or is it kind of the same? You know, I'm a firm believer mate, if, the 30 years too late, aren't they mate? You know, in the 70s England and English clubs abroad were fucking the top dogs and there was no real opposition that, these now are trying to emulate something which they missed the boat on, haven't they? So you've got the Russians running around fucking fields with gloves on and cooking gum shields and knocking fuck out of each other, the Poles and Eastern Europeans, and it's more of a sport than a fucking casual culture, isn't it? Best to look to them if they want to do that, but keep it to themselves. You know, they've missed the boat mate, doesn't fucking interest me all that bollocks. Did you ever come up against a good firm abroad? Fucking Al-Andalek, we went to Al-Andalek once and we got off at the wrong station. Well, we got off at the right station because we were told not to get off there and we ended up going out like fucking hell. There's hundreds and hundreds of them. I mean, we were close-knit, we did all right. Fine old, we went in the late 70s, rough fucking place like, you're going to these places, they're rough aren't they? Fucking Rotterdam, you know. People started for them, it's going to be rough as fuck here. You know, it's like Liverpool Rotterdam, isn't it? And then, you know, you look at the Italians now and I think, you see them in Leicester the other week taking the belts off and fucking trying to take people's eyes out with belts and all that, fuck off. You know, give it up now mate. Put your fucking belts on. Fuck off home, you know, it's not. It doesn't do with me that, you know, it's not really what it's all about, but you know, they're still at it, they're still at it mate, aren't they? They're still active though. You know, obviously you're a Matt Devon fan. Does the score even matter or are you just going 35? No, after a while. I love the football mate and, you know, I see some people do that and say, I don't give a fuck about the results of mate. I wanted Evan to win every game and I loved it. The best years of my life, 84, 85, 87, you know, when Evan had a great side, I would kindle as a manager and it was just the best days of my life. And obviously Heisel happened and Heisel, I went to Heisel at the time, a lot of everything Liverpool lads would go away to get the grafting and I was at Heisel and it was just a terrible, terrible night. And it changed, I think, football, you know, everyone got banned from Europe and it was a fucking sad, sad night for football. What was it like between Evan and Liverpool? Was that many a scrap? In them days, it wasn't so bad because a lot of the older lads all knew each other and it'd be more drunken, pissed up fights at the end, but after Heisel with the banning orders and like a lot of people resented them because the kind of, you know, people say it cost us a European Cup but I don't know if it ever won the European Cup but you've got a better chance of winning it by the end of the fucking thing, haven't you? The government banned everybody from playing European football, don't they? So it got a bit more nasty between the two lots of lads and then the younger lots have come through and I'd say now, it's a derby now, the others have gone, you know, when we used to go, you'd be shitting next to someone, Liverpool fan and they might be the odd punch thrown and they'd be fucking 3,000 evident in the Cup when they played at Cudderson, a couple of thousand Liverpool in the Gladys Street. Now it's segregated, you know, you couldn't do it. You might have the odd mate of someone who's there but it's not, it's probably one of the more hostile derbies now between the fans because of the resentment between each other, you know. Did you ever go for a fight for England? Yeah, we're going to have a lot of England games. How does that watch them that seal it all the forms of fight against each other, though, unite? And do you still fight each other? No, it was bad in the 70s mate, West Ham were fucking nasty. You know, the thing was, we used to go Everton, Liverpool lads and the Manx, we got on well with the Manx because we were all grafting and doing the t-shirts and stuff like that and we got on all right with them but them fucking cockneys mate, they were horrible, they'd be just, you know, you'd have to go on different boats and it was no flying, it didn't fly around in them days. It was on the boats and that and it was fucking, it was a dodgy, dodgy place to go and make watching England and it was scary at times like, I remember going to, I was working in Sweden in 86 and England played Sweden and they're fucking trouble between each other, Leeds, Chelsea, were having the thing at the time. On the odd games like I think in the Euros in 80s, was it 80, 88 in Germany? Yeah, just before Italian 90 was when they started getting together a bit then because the Germans had a massive mob, the Dutch had a massive mob so it was like more fucking, I only have to stick together here and a lot of the lads kind of did get together and say, look, obviously there's still been the odd Birmingham in Villard and have a bit of a punch up in the pub walls in West Bram, Tottenham and fucking Chelsea and never get on, but in the main they stuck together a bit more then and that kind of brought it together and I was banned again when they started having a few tattoos with Poland and that but by then I think everyone had kind of stuck together and that's what they did and that's what they were better at doing really because if you've got all that main house arguments going on, you're not going to be you're not going to be safe here. What was it like, remember the Leeds fans getting murdered? Was that in Turkey? Yes, in Turkey. Do you see stuff like that? Does that make you question it? I think that just happened to me, or do you get angry about it? I think at that time then it can happen to you and you think, fucking hell, that's just wrong in a mate. I can say Heisel was bad and a lot of people, I argue with a lot of people who said it wouldn't have happened, we were great and all that. Heisel was the one that brought it to the head one it and when I was over there it was a shit all over ground, shit segregation and I think a lot of England firms who would have been there, like the big club firms would have had the same problem that Liverpool had at that time. The only problem was, I think with what pissed everybody off, that a bit of a smoke scream was put up at the time and then the government got involved and banned everyone. I think if they'd have probably said look, sorry panels for a year or so, it might have saved everybody in being banned. You're going about Evan, you're knighted, missed out on great chances. Little clubs like Coventry, Seramtson, fucking Wimbledon, Wundercup never had a chance to compete in Europe because the government were eventually going to be sick to fucking death of what was going on and Andy Blanket banned everyone and then FIFA or wherever it was UEFA threw a bit more on, didn't they and then fucked it up for everybody really. What was it like in the 80s, early 90s when I started that and not just fines then it became five years, six years by the sentences. I got lucky once, I was working abroad and I came home for Christmas and we went to Arsenal and I've been away a couple of years and the rave scene had took off big time and I missed out on all that which I'm thankful for because I reckon I had gone bang into that because of the money you could earn and I was working abroad and I remember coming home to Arsenal flying over to London and then meeting at the lads at Euston and the train coming and I missed the fucking where is everyone and this lad playing to me this is it now lad, this is what we've got you know we've gone from like three or four hundred in them two years to fucking sixty because of what was going on and people had all started going the raves and this little hardcore thing and we come out of Arsenal station fucking right by this pub fucking stupidest thing ever a couple of lads by the pub and these cockneys were going fucking keep going fucking bang bang bang off we go and the fucking police station was next to this pub where all the fucking police were getting their match day this is what you have to do and I remember this cop of saints was fucking how we opened the window and there you were and they nicked us all thirty, thirty one, thirty two of us got nicked but about half a dozen got fucking pulled in by a mistake they come off the next tube and they shit themselves where do we go with them lot and they got nicked and we went to Ivory Magistrate's Court before Christmas and they said right got a trial in January, February and we went there and we were like fucking laughing you know, yeah you know, breach of the fucking whatever it was there might have been the fucking breach of the peace all of us got done for threatening behaviour on block and the next minute the fucking Magistrate coming, guilty and all these fucking police coming and I asked that fucking solicitor and he was like the fella going yeah I don't know fucking sent us all to jail for two months or something like that and I was like you fucking what fuck off bum off you go but the funny thing was James at the time the fucking prison officers were on strike so there was nowhere to take you so we got put on these fucking minibuses and they were taking us to all prison cells all over the the police cells all over the country and then my male had Mcblaney and Jock got fucking dropped off it fucking Elm Elm the fucking pie place by Leicester and we were in this fucking police station and this must be a first mate honestly the traffic police were looking after us and there was an exercise yard at the back it's fucking middle of the fucking summit just this man maybe the start of spring fucking memory boiling off so we were sitting in the yard and this Mr Big from Leicester got brought in big drug dealer and then he said right lads he said you know we don't want any fucking assillade don't fuck any fucking hell mate we're just got I don't know three or four weeks to do in here fuck off we're alright and there was a black fella in the cell but there's about six of us there and this fucking drug dealer at night said right lads he got some fucking orange you say he brought some orange and his bird bringing this orange and fucking full of vodka and orange fucking drinking of shit and outside fucking drinking supposed to be in fucking prison and in the next minute this fucking copper comes in he goes lads do you want us to go and get you any pizzas and shit and it was like fucking it was like a little oldie camp and then the soft swath appealed on the sentence and after we'd been there about a week and this fella brought us in he said listen lads he got some good news you could be going on tomorrow we were going fuck off we'll stay here for another week we'll do the sentence and he's going you fucking fuck off we'll stay the three of us but no we don't want to go because we were all sent at the same time and all is one we had to get released and we were fucking gutted that we'd been released because what you had to remember then was you're going back to court crown court sentence could have been a lot worse and you're going to end up in fucking jail and that's what happened we went back two weeks in London crown court southern crown court and this fucking judge was having none of it horrible bastard and he sent us Gerald Butler and never forget him fucking sent us all to jail and by then all this strike was over straight to Brixton and it's just me mate you don't want fucking 30 evident on a wing in Brixton it was fucking on top to fuck mate proper on top it was fucking evil so they had to put us on a segregation fucking unit and never forget mate on the Sunday when the scariest had been in my life this lad said to us he said if you wanna when you get half an hour out of the cell a day go for your meals take your meals back to your cell all for our own protection and then he said to us on a Sunday put your name down for church he said it's a fucking hour walk through the church and then everybody joins you from can't stop no one going to church half an hour in church hour back Sunday dinner kills a fucking morning fucking I would do that like fucking hell mate I've never seen anything like it fucking scariest day in my life mate they had to let all the IRA there there was loads of IRA at the time in Brixton it was just not long after when an helicopter tried to land and fucking break people out it was all that time and these IRA fucking all sorts of fucking pedophiles and that in the church it was going off over the fucking pews the aisles fucking the vicar whatever his name fucking packing in come on lads a place like that's someone else fucking hell and I never forget the week after the fellow church everybody went fuck off and I go back there again it was fucking scary mate and that was a bad bad evil place then we did the rest of the sentence and we come out and for our own safety then they didn't even let us go and fuck off they put a coach on to get us out of there because such was the bad feeling we were all down and it was mobs outside fucking horrible mate it was fucking on top to fuck mate what do you do when you come out and you think okay I'm going to change my life or do you think just want to go for the next battle well we was banned then we were on a we were on a ban no we were on a ban in order then mate how long 18 month ban in order I think it was did you ever skip in when you had the ban because no one gave a fucking them days so we were that season it was the season of Hillsborough bad bad fucking you know 89 we come out of jail and I fucking go and I never forget we went to Villa Park the same day of Hillsborough and that's a sad part of it mate that was a toss of a coin where you play Everton played Norwich at Villa Park Liverpool played Forrest at Hillsborough that could have been us at Hillsborough you know fucking the saddest thing that's ever happened in football all them fucking kids fucking people 97 that was 96 and it just I've seen the programs on it the two daughters died there was a lad from over my ass John O'Brien McBrien or something died 16, 17 it's fucking horrible mate and that could have been us if we had had the toss of that coin and we had played Norwich that day at Hillsborough but that could have been us and you don't remember that but we were banned at the time so we still went and then we beat Norwich one nil and we still didn't know the enormity of what had happened that day we were all on the piss and that fucking box furniture vans we all in them days and we pulled into this fucking pub and fucking staffed us and we walked in fucking Wembley and then people were looking at us fucking disgusting bastards and they were like well and it was on then and then you realised you know fucking 15 dead 20 dead and then we had the radio on the way home and the lad was going fucking it was 40 and then that finished it as it happened and then we went the cup final that year we played Liverpool in the cup final Liverpool won the rearrange game and we still went, we were banned and a few got nicked and then it just started getting a bit smarter the police were on you and that so I remember we played Millwall away and I let a fucking knock going there it was on top and a few were getting nicked and I think after that that changed it mate they were on to everybody and the cover fellers the liaison officers were following you around and it was you know it was on top to fuck then and they seemed like lads were getting 5 or 6 years in jail when if they'd done it in a pub fight they'd have got fucking community service what was Millwall like they've always got the reputation of being a top fan I've been here a couple of times mate and it was nothing of note really I don't think they've they've had a shame thing in that new ground they were but obviously there's stuff going on now down there isn't there so it's it's a tough subject to talk about mate who's the top fan you came up against um like you say on the day mate I don't think you can you can disrespect any of them mate you know the likes of the London lot you know I've been a test among as an evidence Celtic and Rangers come down it's been fucking bedlam mate we went up fucking that was a nightmare we went up to Aberdeen um pre-season friendly and we went up there and we get there on the Saturday morning and it was a bit of fucking my they're not a great deal and then we come out of the ground and it was going off again and they were quite a rough place Aberdeen like fucking middle of nowhere yeah that big fucking and I'll never forget mate we were in this fucking we were in this hotel got ready now to go out for the night I remember this fella behind the bar saying hey lads fucking be careful tonight he said it's not like fucking England this mate he said if you get fucking Nick Deere tonight he said you don't get your fucking charred cheek and you come back in the fortnight you're here till fucking Monday yeah weekend though and he said and the bad news is Monday's a bank holiday you're here till fucking Tuesday and we were like fuck off anyway as I was going to court on Tuesday I thought he was telling the fucking truth we were there all weak in that fucking castle place and it was fucking horrible mate and that went on for about a year that fucking fucking nightmare mate we had to travel up every once a month to give our bail and it went on and on because they were pulling more and more people in and there was about 20 of us in the end ever in Aberdeen and we ended up in Mad James we ended up fucking great mate of them and it was it fucking goes to show how the football lads they just in the end we were going to fucking pub with them fellow Willie Miller used to be captain of Aberdeen he had a pub outside the fucking courts we used to go there and have a pint with him before we went into court and we were all going fucking I think it was going to get two years here it went on that long and the day we went up to trial for sentencing this fucking judge said I'm not having any probation reports fuck off and come back saying why I should give you 12 months not two years because our probation officer said fucking hell you're good lads you're alright fucking hell what tonight mate went back the following week for sentencing this fella had fucking food poisoning they put some fucking judge in charge didn't have a clue and he gave us a fucking fine so that was us in the Aberdeen lads we were on the fucking lash long into the night great great lads and the luckiest escape ever that mate because a long weekend there was bad enough in that Aberdeen I couldn't have done two years up there mate couldn't have done me fucking living seeing you caught against guys like big bars with the zoolos and burn me know I'm like kickbox the moral champion see if you're in a scrap do you know right he can fucking scrap you'd see a few mate I'm not a fucking hard fella we just think we're a bit fucking mad and a bit daft and everyone's got these fucking big fellas haven't they so leave them fucking to it really you see a big fella with one black eye coming and his fucking foot's this high you think fuck him but the good lads really has people like that you know the fucking size of castles if you see can't fuck that Bill you know Bill was younger a fucking lump mate what's the line I'm gonna be like fucking is anyone my size round there type of thing but then it's free for all mate you're lucky or you're unlucky I've been put on my ass by fucking five foot two fucking fellas but they can hit hard so you know it's one of them mate what was it like when you got your leaf band I was gutted to be honest James I don't know fucking wrong at the time obviously I got offered the book deal mate and I did the book and it came out a lot worse somebody could have done if you like because it was a life story and I'd said they took all the stuff out didn't they and it was a pure football ulegon book which wasn't necessarily me you know I had a lot of other things going on my life that I wrote of anyway so that was a luck mate it goes with the tether to you right in the book don't it and a few weeks before the publisher said listen there's a fella from the Liverpool echo coming to see you and he wants to do this big story and I was like yeah that's alright and he said he's already warned me it's not going to be fucking nice reading I was like fucking hell that's alright we'll do it you know so when I met this fella lovely fella can't remember his name anyway it was just before the season started the book was ready to go but they weren't bringing it out till October these publishing companies have a date of release so they can hit the certain market so they're all on the shelves for Christmas so I'll never forget mate it was like October the book was coming out but it was ready in the in the August and people having sneak previews of it and I've been on Aldi to Cyprus and I remember coming home and as a little safety net I started doing a bit of charity work for the former players foundation at Everton there like a nice registered charity and as Everton the community and I started doing a bit of work with them and I kind of had to think I need a bit of good publicity so I registered to do a bit of work for these anyway I came home and I've done a couple of little dinners and thrown them a bit of money and I come home and this thing said do you want to week on Saturday you can play at Gooderson and nowadays you can book the pitch at the end of season and hundreds of people playing it and them days it was fucking unheard of you can play at Gooderson and it was a bit unswers testimonial Everton old boys and celebrities against Liverpool old boys and celebrities and I was like fucking I'll have to be alright you know, a little thank you, thanks very much and I said yeah I'll do it and I was thinking fucking and it won't be top players playing and all that anyway turned up the fucking ground with me bagging all this and goes in the dressing room it was like fucking Neville Southall Joe Parkinson Mark Ward was playing Graham Sharp Derek Mountfield was the manager and he would say yeah you know try and give the non players half a match each so he said I'll go full back mate I'll be alright I'll go full back he said okay yeah and we went in the tunnel and then Liverpool come out and the first person I saw was fucking John Barnes like I'm thinking fucking hell mate I'm just full of fucking Keo Lager and fucking Neziz and this fuckers when he finished playing about two years ago and I'm marking him and I was like that's when I realised adrenaline was fucking brown mate and I said to Derek Mountfield listen mate, I feel a bit and I spew up, nerves but I just didn't, I wasn't feeling I just thought I'm going to get stuck to myself he said right, swap with him Billy so John Bailey fucking great fellow John Bailey Everton fucking top top ex player he said John you go on and I said I'll just have to go so the biggest regret I've had I missed going out to Z cars that would have been great you know and there was about I think there's about 20,000 at the end but this was like an hour and half before the main game 20 minutes each way so there's about 10,000 in there it would have been great going out to that and I remember going in the dressing room pretending to frally around a bit and then I come back down and I started by now so I've gone down the steps, fucking John Barnes comes off he's pulled his fucking hamstring in the warm up and they've replaced him with Stan Bordman in a fucking German outfit with fucking Wellison so I could have had a fucking field day you know anyway the game goes on I went on in the second half we beat the fuckers 2-1 which was good and they had like Mike Cooper in goal Rob Jones, Phil Neil David Fairclough fucking people like that playing and I remember fucking Rob Jones putting it past me and going to run pass and I cleaned him and put him into the gravel and the ref was like I'm fair to who's that Rob Jones like oh he's on he fucking and I remember Derek Manfield going fucking back in you know everyone was cheering anyway we come off, we went 2-1 we come off and we go in the dressing room and get changed and the fella was like right lads fucking hurry up here now cos all the first team are arriving it's a proper match now everything against that letter called Bill Bow give us all a little shitty medal and then there was little envelopes cos the players expenses and in fair play he said look lads all the money's going to the former players foundation I don't think anyone wants the envelope and I won't mention it was but he was an absolute twat he said fuck off I want mine the next top Liverpool professional was the only one to take the envelope and he fucked off so he gives us these tickets out to go in the stands to watch the proper match and as I was going up the stairs I can't have a word a minute mate he said you can't go in so to me he can't go in he said you can't go in he said we've had a word you've got to fuck off so he just fucking played on the pitch yourself twat you know and he's like he's fucking cleared off you're not allowed in on the list and that was a start he was like fucking hell and apparently the echo would send this thing to the club and the club had gone we're not fucking having this so a few weeks later we were playing Arsenal and it was the game when Rick Wayne Rooney scored his first goal of wonder goal of Sheeman beat Arsenal's record and I was there that day the morning and then this fucking taxi pulled up outside me apartment pressed the buzzer it was all right lad you've got a fucking letter here for you and it was the big letter we had a board meeting last night and they'd taken this in to ban you for life like fucking hell that's a bit harsh innit you know because as much as I probably deserved a bit of a bollockin or something I thought fucking hell that's fucking way over the top so anyway we thought we'll appeal against it and shit like that and then a few weeks later we were going to Holland on a trip somewhere and I got fucking pulled in at the airport by the police and they just said look we're taking your fucking passport off you you're in court tomorrow on the basis of some of the excerpts we've taken out of your book which we're in this current time frame which meant they could take you to court over it it's like fucking hell don't need that and it was funny as fuck have you seen that program on the telly like airport when they interviewed people by the fucking dickheads have forgot their passport and that haven't they it's all easy jet not innit oh is billy's forgot his passport now and I walked off and this fella said oh we're doing this thing what was going on then and I just said oh mate I fucking had my passport talking with the police and trying to change my ticket and he said oh would you be interested to do a little interview with us on what happened there we've had that before like fuck off it's like a fucking mildew and that's on and he said oh where are you going now it's fucking going to try and change my ticket to fucking Amsterdam and go on have a fucking couple of days of smashing everything inside like when the program come on it wasn't on that like it didn't get on it so I went to court and I got a two maybe a three year ban from any football I fucking had to get mercis is it and you think then is it worth all the fucking asshole you know but then every now and again you're going to check for 10 fucking grand off your book and you think mate I'll take that like it is I don't fucking bother and then I thought I'm a bit pissed off here so I got into got into local football I've been always done a bit of amateur football playing particularly any good but played probably reasonable levels but I always preferred the Sunday league because I always watched Evan and the Saturday now I was banned I started taking a bit more of an interest in the Saturday football and this Sunday football team I managed for five or six years again I got a fucking ban from everything I got banned from playing fucking a year fighting with some fucking fans on the side of the pitch when I was playing and I took this Sunday football club over and they were bottom of division 4 we won 4 3 2 1 retained 1 and my dad was poorly at the time so we disbanded it but then this club come in little village club boys but they had a good team come in to me and said do you want to come as a number 2 to this lad a good mate of mine Perry I said yeah I'll have a go at that so we didn't have to do any badges in them days of second tier of Welsh footballers and I really enjoyed it like I really got started to prefer the non league side of football and the professional bit partly because I couldn't go and fucking hell we had a great season but you know what we got banger in the Welsh Cup who were the top team banger them one of the most well supported teams of Welsh football and the other lad the lad who was the manager was a player manager he was like fucking he's going to play in that game so I was going to be in charge and their manager mate was a fucking he might be remembering Peter Davenport played for Forrest man United and we come up against them and at half time fucking hell it was 0-0 they were giving him dogs abuse fucking screaming shouting him going down a tunnel fuck off out of our club your English bastard and all this you shut the fucking hell and as I walked down I just said I'm available if he gets fucked off and they all had to laugh at that anybody come out of the second half they fucking there's about 6-0 and at the end of the game that's how poor he was mate I went to shake hands and he said you're still available now fuck off horrible bastard and that summed up and he got fucked off a few weeks later but then from that I took over another club Olywll Town had got a big club in Welsh football and as manager number one there and honestly mate the minute I took over all the press wanted to do was talk about me past there was fucking headlines like takes over the town fucking nightmare every bit of press was bad press and you know we're on about football associating on mate I was on a fucking hiding to nothing mate and by the time I left I was banned from every aspect of fucking non-league football as well or the run ins I had in with them mate they were fucking horrible mate they were absolute swats we had one game there this is how bad the press were right but how gullible they are we were in the Welsh Cup and we drew Aberushwith we were a much better side than us but they drew the round after and the round after was like winners of two shit teams so I thought if we beat them you know we're in the quarters and if we in the semis if we get the right draw the team in the final of TNS new saints will win the league they're already in the fucking champions league she got into Europe through this so I put a little press thing out someone said I watch you think of the draw like they phone you up the press and I said fucking be a bit worried you know if we beat Aberushwith they were playing on of these two shit teams and TNS in this just just roll balled one in and the next minute it was in the papers fucking Scali manager can't go to Europe if Olly will fucking get in the thing and they had to drag me back to court to put a fucking dispensation or something in the in the court order because it was stopping you getting a job if you got never fucking never gonna happen never in a million years we're gonna get into Europe but that's how gullible and that these FA were and that absolute gang of twats like How did you get into management? Just through the Sunday league really I did that well on a Sunday league and I mean like the first probably the team that went from Was that the first team you have on Manies? To managing second tier Welsh football you know fucking hell mate and don't get me wrong mate there's not a lot to it it's like the Premier League money rules mate even at that level and grassroots football is fucked because of it because the best teams in non-league football are probably the ones with the best budgets so you got the best players because you can pay them the most money and then you've just got to go big goalie, big centre half centre mid striker you square peg square holes you do alright the last year I was there mate we beat four clubs Airbus landed no plus that and baller with me as manager and within three years all of them were in the UEFA Cup because they had top budgets and then this club bless them they were fucking on the bones their ass and then we had a bad season we were going down and this is where it all went wrong we played this team on the outskirts of Wrexham Greshford and there's no love lost between Flintshire and Wrexham and it was virtually impossible for us to stay up we were fucked you know but mathematically we could and we were winning 2-1 and I was there with me fucking suit on by the dugout and they were all fucking rabid on this next dugout and then they got a penalty in the last minute I was like fucking hell but mathematically we still stayed up but we were fucked we were going down and they scored this penalty and I never forget this trap next to us jumping up and down he was like the fucking fella the mean machine remember him fucking can't send him down fucking hell mate the lot's gone into the dugout fucking match abandoned everybody fighting and I remember their chairman coming up lovely fella fucking great charity work I do a lot of functions with him fella called Phil Jones and he just says to me Niko you've got a fucking screw loose you're the disgrace and it hurt me you know and that fucking suit covered him mud and shit I said fuck off him and he went he's got Tourette's mate fuck off he was like fuck off he said mate he's fucking suffered for years I was like oh can I say fuck off just then I was like oh Jesus fucking Christ so the next minute now this fucking letter landed like a fucking encyclopedia mate all his charges and that but just bringing the game into disrepute so I fucking got in touch with this lawyer and he went he's played fucking guilty to £100 fine that mate cos you're not a player it's not fucking violent conduct and that just pleaded guilty next minute fucking fine come £1,200 what you fucking want young people don't professional footballers we aren't getting fucking fine that this is like 10-12 years ago fuck off so I phoned a woman I said what's this for now £1,200 fucking quid she said well £600 fine £600 cost so what's the fucking cost for she said well it was that bad in the referees report we got them down to explain to us what you did I said it doesn't fucking work that way love I said if I plead guilty to something you're fucking guilty so you go by what that report is you don't need no one to come and put fucking jam on it you can fuck off with that I'm not paying it she said I don't know what you mean I said look let me tell you this now and there was this horrible fella John Deacon Welsh Fifellys at Swat I said if I come in your office now there's Mr Deacon there she went here he is I said chop this fucking head off right you see it I plead guilty in court you don't have to go to court that's how it is if I plead not guilty you go to court that's where all the expenses come from I said I've pleaded fucking guilty so you bringing the referee in the two lines and to say how fucking bad it was is absolutely politics I'm not paying it anyway let's put the phone down about 10 minutes later this fella phoned me from Welsh Fifellys he said fucking hell mate you're in the shit on the police on you you're threatening to chop this fella's fucking head off I said fuck off mate I said fucking analogy I'm just using an example of what I'm trying to explain it's where I have to phone her up and say look I'm sorry she dropped it so I pulled the police off and got a paid a fucking fine and to this day mate I've never paid it so I'm still banned from every aspect of non-league fucking football and they will never get that money off me mate that was the end of my career that you had been involved in and maybe you could have took a managerial career that it could have potentially took off because your past always comes back and back because you never asked to a certain extent massively mate I've had it I've had it with like non-league football job stuff like that and it comes back and back but you've got to take that route mate haven't you like for everything I've lost through me past I've gained so much more because I've turned it round you know I like to think I've reformed and rehabilitated football notions that's my Twitter thing you know people say I'm a son so fully reformed, rehabilitated football notions it's introduced me to the likes of yourselves ex-players on the circuit who we've managed to work with again you know I've been since the book come out probably had far better things happen to me than bad things if you like and for taking the odd bit of a fucking downer on on the football because I don't I think nowadays it's gone all badges and you've got to do what I don't think I've had a bit of an ass with that mate I like the crack with the lads and the management side of it in that book I don't think I had a bit of an ass sitting down in this day and age with all this ballast that's going on in football now trying to be I wouldn't survive in this day and age put it that way mate not a fucking chance It's basically something dead to rights anyway Well not only that but you know what else is going on James you know you've got the women referees and all this kind of thing and that and I think it's just a fucking ass people these ass What about going forward to the future brother? What's the plans? Well fucking hell mate I'm a bit old for it all now aren't I so hopefully I've got the book coming out next year I've got a couple of shops now mate I've got a good memorabilia shop over the water there I do alright mate I was doing well on the sports promotions until Covid coming I've had some great times on that I've done all the ex footballers and that Frank Bruno's North West agent for about six months that was fantastic I've seen him on your show we've done stuff with Mike Tyson Frank Bruno's coming on as well Frank's coming on as a great fella I wouldn't say me and Frank fell out because he was going through a bad time of his life mate I hope he watches this cos I don't think I've ever told him this mate Frank, when I was working with him could have still fought mate he probably still could now physically wise he's still a fucking unit mate and he used to stay in the hotel by his ars and train and that but he needed that little tablet for his bipolar and I think he didn't like taking it because he didn't think he needed it but fucking on every day he was sacking us he was sacking his driver he was fucking allied on awards in 500 conifer trees cos he thought the press was looking at him and shit like that but fucking hell mate he's honestly one of the most nicest people you could ever wish to meet to work with in them do anything for you mate a quick example mate we had a do in Rochdale and he always used to say I've never been here are you going to meet us there and that Frank I can't meet you there tonight mate it's my mum's 85th birthday and she lived in a sheltered accommodation and I said I can't mate I said I'll tell you what you pick us up and just come in and say happy birthday fucking be there gave me the address and I had to say to this woman in the sheltered accommodation listen there'll be a fella coming about half an hour in the big car a part of where the ambulance is but you'll only be here 10 minutes and we'll fuck off don't tell anyone I can't let it happen I said well it's fucking Frank Bruno all right okay no problem and fucking hell mate she must have told about 200 fucking people so the next minute this fucking big red Bentley comes up into this fucking estate with all Masonettes and every fucking woman was on the balconies with the babies and all that and Frank turns up Andy all right yeah he said fucking and he said haven't they seen a Bentley before I said Frank it's in Flint and I've never seen a black fella and he was like who who who fucking anyway he came in mate and he spent an hour in there with everybody and nothing was too much trouble and that's the kind of fucking level of the fella nothing too much trouble for him and you know what I'm so happy for him that he's exercised his demons a bit if you like and he's had the proper help he needed because not long after we stopped working together I think he got sectioned in me and stuff like that things like that happen and he's an absolute top top fella what's your best memory at Ivan and Evan best memory there's a couple fella Billy Kenny's had a good game against fucking Liverpool once the best memory the best memory a good I think everyone mentions a Buy Me Unit game when we beat Buy Me Unit 3-1 to get to the final of the cup winners cup one of the greatest nights but as a kid I was always a big fan of Bob Lathford and he got 30 goals once again in one season and we beat Chelsea and I was there as a kid that day stuff like that you just memories as a kid forever aren't you but I got back in in the end I had to go every year James they had to put a fucking appeal in after about five years and I mean Slister's a fucking vultures mate aren't he I'd get letters off Slister saying you know you can appeal against this you can do this you can do that on all this and I was like well I'll fucking do it and they were getting paid weren't they and then I'd have to go there and be fucking shirt and tie on I was like that fella off Shawshank remember he goes in every year and he talks through the bollocks and then boom rejected rejected and there was a fella mate at this fucking Ray Foy and we were we were at Leage in the Cup and I've done the the flights with Everton and the tips abroad and we took this fucking coaches to coaches to Leage and we had these vests on here to help just because we had to have them to go on the boat but the fucking fella that printed them put a UEFA badge on them and we were by the ground and this fucking police coming this Ray Foy had pointed me out and they fucking got me mate and they fucking ripped this vest off me locked me up overnight in Belgium for faking to be a UEFA fucking steward and it was nonsense mate it was just a mistake by the printer we were just trying to fucking use them and I went to this appeal and I was like the first one and he said you don't know I am the hero at Noyson and the fella you were calling all sorts and telling to fuck off in Leage and I rejected rejected and then after 10 years I went back again I never gave up on it mate I went in but I just started taking me daughter and I was having to take her to the turnstile and hand her over the turnstile to her uncle going in and it was dead sad mate I said why can't you come in Dad and all this and then fucking one game I got a call and you got to go to Everton and this Ray Foy fella got me anyway we watched you on the CCTV last week we thought you were going in they were ready to nick you but what you did was fucking spot on you daughter and I said yeah he goes like that's some satay fucking clear the decks and you're back in like I fucking made up I thought I couldn't understand that and about six weeks later he died he knew he was ill and I think he just wanted to fucking clear the decks you know and so I was back in anything more because the daff thing I had to sign a behavioural record and go in a non-risk area so I got in touch with one of the lads he said can you get us a couple of tickets in the director's box he says yeah fucking hell a couple of grand each and that for the rest of the season and I've gone in and I've turned up with my daughter on the satay and the stewards are like fuck off you're not coming in here you're just fucking soft sweat he says yeah look this fucking and they were on the radios and that and they're like fuck you know they're there I've gone in the director's box got land seats I've been there ever since and I enjoy it I do a lot of work still with the community not so much with the former players foundation but I still do a lot with Evan in the community and we do the dinners and that and it's good you know I still do an awful lot with charity work just what I like doing mate I really like doing it How hard is it to stop the fighting how hard really is that I tell you now mate I won't go to games that I think there might be a bit of trouble mate I won't go to them because you never know if you're going to get you know pulled in or recognised another downside of the book shit is that you know you go to places fucking hell mate I remember going to Newcastle and the Newcastle lads were banned and we got home with them you know when he said come and meet us for the drink and he meant play jasmine I think it was called and then we fucked off into town after he said go to this fella's pub test man in the Adelphi he looked after you till we get down and I went there and then fucking hell mate it was a nightmare he fucking wanted to kill me and he was this one fella he was shouting past his look at this one he's pot test fucking where wankers are now in here you better get out mate he was fucking nearly killed another time went to Birmingham and come right on top there fucking hell it was in the executive box and then we were going to come through the fucking door what's this twat doing here you know I was with the likes of Howard Kendall, Bob Lachford, Barry Arnex there was like a day for ex Birmingham and ex-evident players and the stupid said you're going to have to fuck off here mate you're going to get killed here in a minute so it can be dodgy you know people and you go to other places and they say hi mate went man United the other week took me door to the box with some of man United's old heads and they're fucking brilliant you know lads you just fucking crack on me for getting on don't we but if there's any chance of it being a bit ify somewhere mate I stay about clear now what do you think about films now I mean it's a lot bit more lot change mate I won't disrespect anybody by saying you know it's 22 years 20 years too late 30 years too late like the foreign parts which I'm emulated but the lads now we were getting nicked they're going to jail for for long periods and the lives can be ruined can't they for and the chances are getting away with a fucking zero really nowadays what's London the most CCTV per square mile in the world any what chance you know I lost a few mates to trouble at West Ham a few years ago you know two and a half years fucking silly scrap outside a pub you just got to be very very careful mate haven't I when's the next, when's the next the book's coming out next it's about a year away mate October because it's 20 years since then it's virtually finished mate there's a few little bits and bobs in it different stuff a lot of non football stuff some of the stuff we just spoke about the growing up the dinners the people you work with and things like that the trips the travel company was a place in London we used to hire for the Wembley games Silver Spoons you know we had some fucking laughs there like you should have rented that place off an Indian guy Mr Singh blessing eight grand you had to pay him you got two thousand in and a tenner and that's fucking good money you know that went sits up we were renting out to too many teams I think her name she's the top woman in the police now Chris is a dick or something isn't her name I remember one day we were there salamting against Carlisle we rented it and she'd come and shut the place down and she had the fucking big motorbikes in front of her little flag in the front of the car and I said officer why have you shut the fucking club down and she said address me as man please if you want me to answer you and I went oh sorry man why have you shut it she said one I don't like the fucking shit old and two known criminals are making money out of it I said well how do you work known criminals are she said my intelligence tells us known criminals are making money I said well Mr Crispin top lad Eddie Crispin Portsmouth put us on to this I said he's member of the England Supporters Club he's not here today he's Portsmouth and said I'm done so she's on the radio and she went no it's um my intelligence tells me there's a Mr Nichols involved in it and I've got me fucking bag here full of money and I'm saying alright I'm off and then the next minute the fella on the motorbike ma'am that is Mr Nichols right come back here and she gave me a fucking bollock and I said get the fuck off my patch now I'll be fucking in touch with you me fucking HMRC and all this fucking clear off and that was the end of that another fucking door shut another one opens don't I but um it's a bit eventful you know and then I'm trying to do my daughter was very very poorly the last two years mate she's had some terrible troubles um and we're raising money for the hospitals and the McDonald's house and all the hey you know they saved their life um so stuff like that mate now we're doing that and like we say every time we come on here you know with the lad these things we're talking about mental health and that's never so being so big and you know I think through this lockdown mate fucking I know three people who took their own lives it's sad you know it's it's fucking horrible mate and I think men now have got a they've got to own up to their problems mate big hard fucking tough men I found hanging from trees because they don't like talking to people you know I'm going up these mountains now walking for charity and I've got different people coming with me because the first couple I did was coming down with the dogs and chatting happy and fucking and then you just see fellas walking up on their own with the fucking heads and you think fucking I'll make your morning and you think he's got fucking problems then so I put it out there if anyone fucking wants to come up with us in the morning come up and fucking I'll make the responses unbelievable people coming up and some of the stuff they're telling you you couldn't believe it just because it's a little offer a little olive branch come on mate open up after they got in touch can I come up again that feel much better for telling you I think just it's horrendous mate this day and age now mental health with fellas it's fucking heartbreaking mate yeah it's through the roof man and it's sad that people are too scared to speak out but as soon as you speak out that's when you can start to get help to the end of your life don't get me wrong mate my daughter was in hospital I was driving through the tunnel me misses you should stay the other night with her you know we had a horrendous night there mate you'd never want to hear mate and I wouldn't wish on anyone you know the surgeon there has basically said look tonight I'm going to be phoning you're up and saying all you're going to hear is it's good news that means I've saved a life or it's bad news that means come and see us basically she's gone and I'm thinking you know you don't want that mate you don't want anyone to hear that force you enough freeing them on and the phone went it's good news we've finished a sort of problem out big massive burst of stomach ulcers she had and he just went you can thank me again and put the fucking phone down fucking hell you know and she'd been through hell and back my daughter with it mate and affected her massively you know she lost two years of school this Christmas is the first year she's back home with her Christmas for three years mate so if that can affect kids and not particularly getting that much help I imagine people who have suddenly in this what's gone on now I've got no one to turn to have they and I'm thinking to myself fucking hell mate you know just by chatting to someone going up on a fucking hill walk could have saved a life not just changed a life change you could save their lives mate and I just think I don't know and it's always been there how many in the past have like I think we spoke mate if they like to robbing Williams can kill himself mate someone as fucking funny and happy and as successful as him anyone could make can't they and I just think there should be something there mate for men to get rid of the stigma of I don't want to talk about it suffering in silence and then it's too fucking late mate that's a hard thing but again guys like yourself doing these kind of walks and all your past everything you go through you realise it's all fucking irrelevant I think to people fucking hell mate no pleasures in saying mate I've been to jail I've been in some awful trouble I've been on lots of other good things I don't think I've happened through that with my daughter God bless her I've lost both my parents luckily enough I managed to spend an awful lot of time with them before they both passed away my dad before the book come out and I still when my biggest regret to this life is I never had the chance to tell my dad I was sorry and he never really seen the good idea in my life after he passed away he passed away just before I brought the book out luckily enough she passed away six years ago last week and she saw a lot of good come out of my life she saw the grandkids she saw me rebuild my life and come good and have a lot of good press for a lot of the good things I did you know and I just wish my dad could have seen that really and that saddens me but it doesn't sadden me enough to to think there's no fucking way out of all this whereas a lot of people just do not see an avenue out of some of the shit holes they get themselves into and the messes they do and there always is a way out mate in there fucking money, shit, you know drugs, get away from it you know and unfortunately a lot of it's to do with you know relationship problems get drugs, social media social media is a fucking evil thing mate an evil evil thing mate and people have to be thick skinned imagine a school kid and I've no doubt when this goes out people say it's big stupid doesn't what he's talking about all over social media fucking bother me mate I'm looking thick skinned and I've had it all before some kid in school tries to do a little blog or something and they get fucking batted you know and it's sad mate it's just you know what the fucking hell there's no escape from him is there and I think that's why that social media thing and Tony Bellyw at the nail on the head the other week when he said everybody should be registered on a passport and they're addressed Bill to say where they're doing it from mate and then they could just go round the fucking houses and say well have you just fucking done this shit to us definitely man for anybody that's maybe watching and struggling with mental health Andy what advice would you have for them anyone struggling with mental health mate there's no shame in it mate there is no shame and I've seen first hand how it can break take a family to breaking point but there's no shame in it you know I'll be honest mate at that hospital through the tunnel going back to my other daughter I've never said I'm nowhere near closer enough to feel as bad as some people have but odd days when I've come there I thought you know if this tunnel collapsed on me now I wouldn't give a fuck as my life's that sad at the moment I would never think I'm going to drive off a bridge or jump off a cliff but at times I would think you know if that just fucking fell in on my head I wouldn't give a fuck because I feel so shit but you get yourself together and talk to people and it's something they've got to do mate you know you've got to you've got to put it out there there's no fucking shame in it anymore mate it's a stigma about weakness in that with men what the fuck's weak about saying to your mate can have a chat that's fucking woke up ill don't sit in the fucking pub on your own lashing Jack Daniels down you're feeling sorry for yourself and then wake up them on and do it again there's just someone to tell you fancy going for a fucking walk fancy doing this that and the other so there mate there's enough people who listen enough people understand you anymore it's not underground anymore is it mental health so there for your mate and anyone, anybody can suffer from it that's making no mistake by that you know in three months time how your gear could feel fucking something could happen the triggers it off mate once that hamster starts running out of too fast you can be fucked in a matter of weeks tell someone about it don't go the wrong way don't make the wrong decisions cos there's a lot of good people out there that can help you and that's you know I know first hand on that mate I've lost good friends through depression suicide and I've seen mental health first hand and it's a fucking vile evil disease mate there is that and the boy thanks very much pal can't wait to read the second book man I'm looking forward to it God bless you brother take care pal thank you