 I'd like to call the sixth meeting of the 2016 2017 common council to order with the clerk Please read the quote for the day. Thank you mayor By working together with everyone contributing what they can a greater good is achieved Thank you the clerk, please call the Roll call 14 present Alderman Schneider is excused all the mint bidders is not excused Excuse me. They're both Please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from our last meeting entertain a motion Thank you mayor. I would move to approve Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the minutes? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye Opposed motion passes There are no mayor appointments this evening Next we'll move on to the public forum city clerk. Thank you first on our list this evening is Lorraine green Lorraine if you could come up Taking care of it Okay, we're ready Yet Lorraine could I have your home address, please? It's 2308 North 35th Street? All right. Thank you very much I'm here tonight to speak to you of my observations of the shell game That's being played out in regards to the purchase of the field of dreams by Aurora I'd like to preface this by saying that remark my remarks are based on figures in the city's own retler report This report is probably close to two years old and if things go as usual It's higher cost figures today and Project overruns need to be considered The field of dreams was acquired by the shmoygan area school district for the purchase price of one dollar from the city of shmoygan It was to be a school site That is why we bought the home we did It was city property to start with and so the shell game begins Shmoygan area school district now owns that land and wants to sell the land to or the Aurora Corporation for two point five million dollars Leaving them with a profit of two million four hundred ninety nine dollars Oh, two million four hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars Part of the shell game is what is under the second cup the Buttson property on the south side of our city The but the Buttson property comes into the plan Because the replacement fields are needed at the Buttson property to replace the ones that would be destroyed on the field of dreams The DNR has a requirement to meet conditions in a grant That the DNR gave to the shmoygan area school district For the development of the field of dreams Aurora will donate two point three million for the development of the Buttson property With the remaining two point seven million developing yet another piece of property that we now refer to as the east parcel Which also belongs to the shmoygan area school district If and when this east parcel would ever be sold and What's to stop it from being sold as it is? Property owned by the shmoygan area school district. It is not considered a park Under the definition of a park it needs to be owned by the city So if it is ever sold the school district will also make an additional handsome profit The school district comes out one dollar shy of 2.5 million for the current field of dreams and will also own a developed piece of property across the street Now watch the cup The prize is being transferred Since the Buttson property will fall short 2.5 million dollars to compete phase one of the project Someone will be on the hook to come up with the remainder of those monies This shortfall amount does not include the shortfall amount of 2.5 million dollars That is short does not include lighting for the soccer fields. Now. This is the promised tournament grade Facility that we were promised It does not include seating scoreboards necessities for concession stand complex field make a complex or field maintenance during growth or the annual maintenance fees for the For the city for five fields and based on the Shealy soccer complex in Appleton We would estimate that to be a hundred and fifty thousand dollars annually Since the Buttson property is owned by the city I will assume that the city will be responsible for this underfunded project as well as the maintenance of that property and The city infrastructure all around all three properties that being the Buttson property the East parcel and the current field of dreams any any sort of infrastructure that needs to happen Remind you this is just phase one The football fields on phase two are not even in my consideration here How does it happen that the Sheboygan area school district comes out the winner here if the Sheboygan area school districts Thinks this is such a great idea Why don't they give the 2.5 million dollars that they're making from the sale by completing phase one of the Buttson project My guess is that they have it earmarked for other expenditures We have soccer fields. We have baseball diamonds now Why are we as a city so anxious to destroy them and assume another debt for all all for something that this City does not really need right now Let's take a detour here and consider the second component of this great deal the Buttson property Who asked for tournament grade fields? The citizens were not asked if they wanted the field of dreams destroyed We were not asked if we wanted tournament grade facility for soccer and football Personally, I would love to see our city have an outdoor water park like our neighboring communities of Manitowoc That's five already All right, thank you very much. Thank you Next is Susan Sunquist Can I have your home address, please 2338 West Shelley Court? Okay, you'll have five minutes. I do not need the five minutes I just have a couple of points that I would like to ask this council to consider And Toby talked about some of it the Buttson property was donated to the citizens of Sheboygan The citizens not a private group not a private soccer group To the citizens and I think the citizens should have some sort of say in that my other concern are the responsibilities for the financial cost Sheboygan just passed a wheel tax because they can't afford to fix the streets And now they're incurring some significant debt not only on the outs on set, but in many years to come It's my understanding that the city doesn't have that kind of money Which is why I was just charged a wheel tax and I've been charged a garbage Tax or amount added on to my taxes. So where will this money come from? I think that question has yet to be answered and I would really like to know what the answer to that is Thank you very much. Thank you, Susan And Lastly is Herb Tyler Herb would you mind coming up? Herb, can I have your home address, please sure 35 14 Gilea Avenue? Thank you, I'm going to forego a lot of what I'd plan to say Because it's been covered very well already by Toby Green and I'm going to tell the common council here That you have a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers of Sheboygan to get it right Every level of government has the same problem with projects They are underestimated when the costs are talked about and Any revenue or benefit is always overestimated always you don't have to look any further than the demolition of Boston store to see that or the marina project which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into because they can't make a go of it as a private private entity So it happens over and over and over again and it should not be happening here The taxpayers have a right to know exactly what's going to be spent Toby's figures are actually wrong in one respect And I'm going to correct them if I may she everything she said is absolutely correct She just didn't go far enough if you just take the Rettler report figures We're talking 9.4 million to develop the property of which 2.33 will come from Aurora That leaves a deficit of 7.1 million that the taxpayers will be on the hook for that's a that's a big chunk That's assuming that you could do it for the cost of the estimate that was given two years ago And assuming that there aren't over overruns, which of course in government projects There always are because we have a bottomless pit called the taxpayer that can pay for it if You do this you're either doing it in a spurious manner, which I doubt. I don't think you're that devious Or you're doing it out of ignorance, which I kind of think maybe you are you got to look at the numbers Some of you are numbers people I heard that here a year ago look at the numbers and reconsider this I'm going to end with a notion that you you have an opportunity to slow this whole process down and For a couple of years through a couple of election cycles This was done between Aurora and the school district the field of dreams deal and a surreptitious manner behind closed doors at the insistence or request of of Aurora and done in secret and the community didn't have a chance to get involved or respond in any Way until after the fact after everything was cut and dried I Would think that being people in government you would want people involved the quote for the night said when working together a greater Good can be achieved. We never had the opportunity to work together And I'm going to quote mr. Bellinger just a short time ago. He was talking with the gentleman from WHBL and And he was talking about the half a percent county sales tax. He said it's a bad deal for Sheboygan Well, so is this project that is being undertaken where they're going to get stuck for millions of dollars that the people aren't admitting to right now He said there's no collaboration with the city. I share your pain mr. Bellinger There's no collaboration with the people who'd be directly affected by the Aurora project and it was rammed down our throats That's a quote by mr. Bellinger. I share your pain I know exactly how you feel you can correct that if we had a chance to go through a couple of election cycles and let the Voters decide and believe me we have a group of people that can mobilize people and it isn't just a Graceland subdivision Issue it's a Sheboygan issue. I think that we might have a different result The worst that can happen is it's postponed for a while It's already been postponed for a year and a half through the efforts of the Save the Field of Dreams group So what if it got postponed for another two years? Sky's not going to fall that would be my request that you rescind the zoning Go revert to the original zoning and I don't know if there's a motion before this body to that effect but I would request that somebody develop that and Put this on hold and tell people in this in this community have a chance to respond. Thank you That's it for this evening. Thank you Next is mayor's announcements like to ask that Mike Marver come forward I'd like to take this time to acknowledge Mike in his 31 years of service to the city of Sheboygan He started on July 8th of 1985 and retired June 3rd of 2016 not many people can claim to work for the same establishment for the amount of time that Mike has worked for the city of Sheboygan This speaks of his personality and his loyalty Mike has held various positions at DPW including labor truck driver Sanitation operator cement finisher and recycling center operator The tasks that that are completed at DPW Frequently become mundane and repetitive we often forget that what we do Directly affects the daily lives of all the citizens that are served by the DPW employees The countless miles of streets Mike has plowed the tons of yard waste that he's hauled from the recycling center And the thousands of yards of concrete that he laid all have a positive and direct effect On the citizens of Sheboygan. I would also like to acknowledge Mike's family and thank them for their sacrifices It's not easy for a father and a husband to be pulled from the daily responsibilities of raising a family Many times the citizens of Sheboygan needed Mike during the middle of the night or over the holidays Unfortunately, we cannot make up that time has that Mike has missed while providing life-saving services such as clearing and salting the roadways The Department of Public Works in the city of Sheboygan are extremely grateful that the Marver family was able to spare Mike When the citizens really needed his services on behalf of the city of Sheboygan the Department of Public Works and me personally I'd like to wish Mike all the best in retirement We hope it's a long and happy one and I'd like to present him with a certificate of appreciation from the city of Sheboygan We're honored to present Michael Marver the certificate of appreciation of recognition for 31 years of dedicated services From July of 1985 through June of 2016 Next I'd like to ask Gene Byneman to come forward Gene Byneman on our end will be retiring from the Sheboygan County Health and Human Services Department on July 5th The 2016 where she's been employed as a public health program supervisor Since the city County Health Department merger in 1987 she was hired by the city of Sheboygan as a public health nurse And then the Sheboygan public nursing supervisor in August of 1980 where she served until the merger took place She served the city of Sheboygan and surrounding communities for 36 years Gene's skills were put to a specific test a few years ago when Sheboygan suffered an outbreak of Tuberculosis there were 11 cases of TB that had to be treated and gene coordinated and was a leader of the team That coordinated the local efforts with all the state and federal health Gene thanks for all your work that you did to benefit the citizens of Sheboygan And I'd like to present you the separate of the recognition by the city of Sheboygan The gene Byneman the certificate of recognition is in appreciation of your dedicated service as a city of Sheboygan Public Health Nurse from 1980 to 87 and continued service as a Sheboygan County Public Health program Supervisor for 36 years of dedicated service gene. Thank you very much What a blessing the last 36 years have been I'm so thankful that in the summer of 1980 when I came to this building to apply for a job That I was hired and who would have thought that we would have experienced a leading Legionnaires outbreak a leading tuberculosis outbreak that a community would have become so diverse With refugees from all over the world and the great things that have happened today And I guess as elected officials. I challenge you all to continue to support the funding that's taken That is needed for all of us to work together and really make Sheboygan the shining star that it is So thank you so much for your service and I look forward to seeing you in the future I'll maybe attend more board meetings or council meetings. I don't know Next item on the agenda is a proclamation This Saturday the Town and Country Garden Club is celebrating the 50th anniversary the dedication of Indian Mount Park I'd like to ask that Mary Lee Hansman the president of the Town and Country Garden Club and tippy young the chairman of the clubs Indian Mount Park Committee, please join me at the podium to receive this proclamation to commemorate this event Proclamation Whereas the city Whereas Indian Mount Park a natural historic resources is a sacred burial ground of effigy Mount people and whereas with in these 15 acres of adjacent woodland in winding stream lie 18 rare Indian burial mounds dated about 500 to 1000 AD and whereas this effigy Mount culture was Limited almost entirely to southern, Wisconsin with a few mounds in Iowa, Illinois, and Minnesota And whereas all that is known of Indian Mount culture comes from the archaeological study of such mounds and whereas these mounds are saved from Destruction by the Sheboygan area Garden Clubs through public Subscription and given to the city of Sheboygan is an archaeological park and whereas the Town and Country Garden Club has continued Its commitment to Indian Mount Park has kept the park one of its ongoing civic projects Working closely with the Sheboygan Park Department on the maintenance and preservation and whereas the mounds were restored and open to the public on June 25th of 1966 Dedicated to those oldest peoples of Wisconsin whose love for their homeland kept it green and beautiful and rich in nature's bounty May we learn to preserve it half as well I now therefore Mike van der steen mayor of the city of Sheboygan do hire by proclaim June 25th of 2016 is Indian Mount Park Day to honor the 50th anniversary of the dedication of Indian Mount Park And I urge all citizens to continue to support and preserve this important part Wisconsin's rich Indian heritage and city Appreciates all the work that the Garden Club has done over the years not only to start this park out, but also I'm Mary Lee Hansman the current president of Town and Country and on behalf of our garden We thank you for this proclamation And I want to invite all of you this Saturday at 2 o'clock to come down to Indian Mount Park We're gonna have a small program with some dignitaries Speaking and then we're gonna have a docent led tour of Indian Mounds, so hope to see you there I'd like to ask Kate Reddaker to come forward Kate Miss Wisconsin USA recently returned from the Miss USA pageant in Las Vegas Kate was selected as Miss photogenic and you can see why We're very proud of Kate It's great to have a locally representative win the Miss Wisconsin USA crown and compete in this nationwide pageant Kate is the daughter of Trisha and Steve Reddaker. She's a psychology major at UWM She volunteers for organizations that she's passionate about Including the USO the Susan G. Coleman for the cure and the National MS Society Kate is the first Sheboygan woman to be selected as Miss Wisconsin USA in the pageant 65 year history 2017 Miss Wisconsin pageant is set for September 11th in Fond du Lac Once you'll be passing your crown on to a new person to serve in that role Kate It's good to see a Sheboygan girl find the success that you had in the Miss Wisconsin USA contest And you did a great job of representing Wisconsin in the Miss USA pageant as mayor I'd like to present you as a symbolic key to the city in recognition of your accomplishments and best wishes for your future I'd like to thank you all for this amazing Present I guess it has been such an honor the past nine months to represent Sheboygan Which I'm proud to be from and thank you guys for all that you do to make it the great place that it is Next we'll move on to some hearings We have hearings Items 2.1 through 2.5 is there anyone here to be heard on any of those hearings David which hearing did you want to respond to which street 2.5? Repaving the street from from 9th Street From Indiana 9th Street to Georgia Avenue. All right. Very good. Go ahead David. All right now Just want to take a little bit back here No, it's been said to me by some of the people in this Here that what have I given to the city? Well, let me tell you something I have given to the city, but they What you guys want to do is to repave that road in front of me and because I have asked a little bit on this Asked on this on all that we've already put forward towards this road They said it was said Dave the city's giving you so much. This is what I have given this city already I gave up my bar on 7th and Penn you guys use it now for a parking lot for Prairie State Insurance Company I gave up my parking that was on the street on Indiana Avenue when you did the bridge and the circle project You put the parking lot a whole block away from me on the other side of four of a kind but always persevere And when it comes to the land across the street for me now where Sprecker is I made a deal way back in 89 with Bill Rice Cole and Bill Rice himself to make that a parking lot and I did so I had the water line secured and Whatever else was there anyway leveled off and made into a parking lot paid for all of that out of pocket myself Plus paid the insurance and had him a copy of my insurance every year sent to him to make sure that was always paid Now when the city wanted that they made me a few Promises and there's one person in this room that was personally made their promise to me that that parking Parking on that land would never be taken away from me Now it's real close right now to say whether or not that parking has been taken away from me But I have built my parking lot across the street, which the city made that deal with me If they ever would take that parking away from me that they would tear down my buildings, which I did Which would be the bike and ski Back then was RLO Then there was a residential house in there plus what other properties were there and I made that a parking lot out of my pocket, so you're talking Probably between 350,000 and $500,000 that I paid for that out of my own so Just saying now then you come along and you take your time at doing Indiana up to 9th Street Just pounding the heck out of my building, which I fixed every time and Ponying the heck out of my sidewalks, which you came in and did it and took a bunch of the bricks off the front of my building which I had to put back on and out of my pocket now when We asked because of those trucks running through our alleys and on our road there that you said Well, it was covered by a block grant a tiff grant It would be taken care of when the rest of that construction was done You guys broke the alley right in half down the middle all the big heavy trucks going down there now I get done with this I'll tell you about a squeaky wheel getting greased because We kind of quit complaining about it as time goes by well when it was the bridge project and then A Street to 9th Street and then the gas station had that big plumage there So you put us back on that where all the fuel had leaked into the Street and followed the gas pipes and sewer pipes right to my building. I mean they tore them up right to my place Replace the corner by me twice on the sidewalk there and In fact, they took the one of those big trucks drove over the corner just broke the end of it right off Which you guys came back and took care of I'm glad of that Then you did the then when we asked about having the road fixed then or the alley fixed then It was moved back because the 9th Street had to get Sorry, Indiana having to had to be fixed from 9th Street to back then was 14th Street And then you did from you did all the 14th Street and then the rest of Indiana Avenue West So all of that we kept getting put back it put back. Well in the middle of that Heineckee building, which was a sausage building was going to be made into the broth house and The parking area was going to be put behind the alley So the alley was going to be redone then which was of course was dropped and they didn't do that and nor did they do our alley But with all of this we've always suffered through the road that we have now that road was a pretty good road When I moved there and I moved there back in the 80s now I thought it was redone before that I was talking with my neighbors here and one of them couldn't tell me exact date on it Do you guys any you guys know? Dave Bevel Chad see here Anybody know when that road was put in there? Just being an all fairness now. I thought it was put in in the late 80s But I was told it might have been put in before that It was late 80s All right, thank you So I knew it was there because I thought it appeared on my tax bill when I bought the place in 88 that it was still paying it So maybe it's 83 and it holds out for five years that we pay for that. That's all right so anyway of all of that I Just going through all of that now a normal residential pays about $800 a year. We have 2,500 Residentials in this city and I'm kind of guessing on a business thing You can only break it down from what you say the percentages from what we pay for our schools, which I don't have any kids Or never had any kids, but maybe yet To maybe I just kind of a guess of $2,400 on businesses Depending might like mine. I'm trying to trying to guess that but I'm guessing that's what I've already paid for our road Now if you paid that over Say from 88 till now, you know, we're talking two to three hundred thousand dollars that have been already paid for that Plus whatever I had to pay for that that was left on my Tax bill from the original time that it was now I have about 35 feet. That is that Has to be we'll say it's 40 feet But I replaced about five or six feet of it a few years back when I put a storm sewer in my parking lot went to the city And I asked one of the guys from the city to drop me off a storm sewer Because when they put Indiana Avenue in the water ran backwards backwards to the south towards our alley and put a Made it in the wintertime just a big skating rink who's impossible to drive there So after I put that in there it all of that water went down into that storm drain which worked out pretty good So it's probably saved a couple of years on that road for my block But those are things that I've always been proactive on and taking care of this now during that time that they did a street bridge the circle back in the middle 90s then is Then a street to 9th Street on Indiana Avenue, and then of course 9th Street to 14th Street they also put long fellow school in there so that new road they had put in there that all cut up to Secure the water lines of sewer lines in the gas line So they cut up that road and patched it all up not very well They've been patching it up every year, you know, I shouldn't say that they patch it up as well as can be I mean with our With our winters and stuff like that How can a patch hold around here? You know so but they did take and cut up a new road and Did what they did so in all of that time? We've lived with that road the way it is our alley the way that it is I do the plowing on that I have the skitters so to plow it with a truck with a plow isn't really hard because it's so uneven But those big trucks when they did that just busted the heck out of that thing and all of the complaints that we had For it always got pushed on you know and after a while like I said that thing about a squeaky wheel and getting greased I quit complaining about it, which I can't believe because I normally let you guys know But my neighbors also the same thing nobody had been complaining about it for quite a while and there every person on my Block except for the gas station across the street for me is now retired Somewhere in their 80s. Some are well into their 60s. Some are just into their 60s But either way you're you're charging $23 a foot for residential which I look at that and I say well, that's not too bad But they still have paid for it over the last few years and you cut that road up Daring all them houses down and running all them trucks through their long time ago And for me you're charging me a hundred dollars a foot on a piece of property that I asked you to annex to my bar And you haven't and you won't and now you're gonna say well I have 44 feet there want to charge me clear. I'm guessing it's gonna end up around five thousand dollars when it's done And it's not a commercial Property it's still listed. It's on my parking lot. However, you guys deemed that but from 94 plus dollars a foot to $23 a foot is a big change what I'm saying here as it with all of this With all of this, I don't know if you guys realize but Wisconsin is the seventh highest ranked Taxed state in all the union now I tried finding a newer one to see if that was different the city of Sheboygan ranks between 12th and 18th of the highest Taxed cities in Wisconsin. There's 200 cities in this state There's 2,500 cities and towns in this state and all of that in all of the taxes that I pay because in my business It's like 95% taxes tries me crazy. We put billions of dollars within the system just in Wisconsin We are the 123rd safest city in this state, which is terrible considering with a 10th safest city in the country only a number of years back And now you're going to have the police hand out these Tax bills. I'm just gonna call them a tax bill because this is not cool on my block Especially we should get a pass on this. We've had to live with this We lived with all of the stuff that you guys wanted to do to This city when I moved there. It was nothing but heavy industry You had everything from rice coal across the street for me their original old building I guess there was a Rex all there, but that was Heineke meets which had just closed up cold cold storage rice coal across the street tannery Lakeland coats Made well chairs our way chairs and furniture rock line Sheboygan machine shop was right on the bridge Sheboygan screw and another chair company that was there. That was pretty heavy industry, you know back in the 80s And early 90s so when I put up when I chose to move there with my tavern I was not moving into a residential area. I was moving into a area that was For my type of business So I won't have anybody tell me that I didn't give to this city because I gave I gave everything I can't I've been here I've been my business. I've been it now. I've owned it for 30 years within my business within the city so it's it's been a family business for 42 years now and Just saying we've paid for this thing three times over we should get a pass on this It was I you know I can say what about the land over by the old press how much a day pay for it I can tell you but I won't do that out loud. I can probably pull out half a dozen other ones that Went through that same thing and if any of us have suffered more through your through the city's Things I mean we were covered under a block grant. We were covered within a TIF grant to have this all done. You should be taken care of Thank you for those comments David Can I ask for a vote to get a pass on this or to get a lowered rate within our this will be coming up later in the agenda for a vote? This is your opportunity to you know, give us your comments Wave my time to my time to come up then if needed There won't be any opportunity for citizen input and let at that time unless somebody from the floor would open that for you Thank you Is there anyone else wishing to be heard for any of the five hearings is please step forward Your name sir and the item that you're talking about My name is Kerry Doyle Which street which street excuse me which street Which what oh which 2.1. Thank you very much. Please proceed My I have a lot of issues with the the assessment we got it's about seven thousand dollars for our lot It's a 30 by 150 foot lot with a 900 square foot house on it. We bought it last October We bought it from HUD is a distressed on inhabitable property because of a variety of issues This is our think our ninth My wife Marsha and I have bought eighth or ninth property. We've bought the last eight years in the city of Sheboygan Our motto excuse me a second so lightheaded here for a second We you know, we've kind of had our Model of you know, we're trying to make Sheboygan a better place to live one house at a time So each year we bought a property and we've renovated it and You know make them Highly efficient In good condition and try to find people that can rent from us. We don't resell anything We we rent them out and we're trying to build some kind of a retirement income. So We've had pretty good success with that we're Still running at about a break even with all of our efforts. I've worked with Building inspectors extensively and Steve Sokolowski. I believe his name is the planning because like one property we bought Had two lots and we had to join them together for tax purposes and for variances on garages that were there for the last 40 years and all that So we had a good relationship and we've been able to talk with the people in the city and Work on getting things done when I came to buy this property It was highly distressed. It had a lot of issues and Very expensive issues to fix but we decided to take this one on but I did my homework on it We got it from HUD so HUD doesn't take any responsibility going forward So I have to do my homework on it if there's any major problems and a lot of things did come up. It had some a Water issue we had to put in a new water line and meter and in that stuff, which Was a $7,000 bill, but we were aware of that prior to buying this property last October as well as a Foundation issue that we've had fixed that was a $5,000 bill and a staircase that needs to be installed And several other things that Ryan City engineers been to this house. I've showed them some of the things. I'm talking about we do a pretty nice job of making these places a One highly efficient, you know upgrade furnaces and fully insulated and rewired and all the things that's needed to make them really nice Properties and we put a lot of money into them and eight properties I don't know how much we got into all these but it's a lot But to say the least I was shocked to get a $7,000 notice on this house. I mean I Did all the checking in October. There was no such thing on the radar. I talked to Ryan about this and he told me that it didn't come up till December You know I were I Don't know how I recover from this. I mean we're budgeted on this property to the limit It's it's six months to a year of my labor and you know 30 40 50 thousand dollars of our money To make this another nice property in the city of Sheboygan and this $7,000 bill is is Disasterous for us financially for for this property and us overall I just don't have that kind of money laying around I understand they're offering some kind of finance and stuff, but Further argument of this would be Half of this bill is for curb and gutter that was put in 40 years ago And it's it's destroyed and it is destroyed. It's gone. It's it's damaged. I mean I don't feel or see how One be having bought this property last October You know I count the cars on that street and it's probably a traffic of a thousand cars Maybe more per day. Maybe I'm off by a lot. I don't know but over the 40 years It took some 12 million vehicle trips up and down that street To ruin that curbing the bus drives up on that curbing all the time That's primarily why it's so badly damaged because it's a bus stop out there Bus drive pulls over there in the snow plows poly form. So it's pretty beat up but 12 million cars buses trucks semis is a factory down the street. So they're semis up and down that road all the time To destroy that that curb and gutter and you know, that's thirty five hundred dollars to us And we've owned this property for six months a little bit over I don't think that's right. I don't think it's ethical. I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's reasonable You know in my world We try to be good citizens, you know Sun school board after I got off but you know, I've been active in the city for most of my life, you know, I'm a You know, my wife and I have tried to do the things that are right in life You know, I did two combat tours in Vietnam. We came home and raised five kids. They all got them through the university They're all doctors and lawyers doing well and we're very very blessed We have 11 grand children and one thing out of that whole 45 years was we didn't have any retirement So this is what we did to try to build up some kind of a an income from rental properties And like I said, you know, we've got a few of them now in Sheboygan And we've worked really hard and I have to put a lot of work and time and money into this property yet And a seven thousand dollar hit is significant and I guess I would ask for some kind of consideration on this And I don't even know where to begin on that because I'm totally unfamiliar with this statute that allows you guys to do this it's It's financially disastrous to us at this point and I don't think it's reasonable or fair or justifiable Having you know, if I hadn't done the just you know, the diligence beforehand if I hadn't gone in check with Steve and The city or something I could Say maybe it maybe I have some shared responsibility, but I did all of that You know, I negotiated the price to buy this property based on all of the information of what was available last October and that's where We came up with the price that we paid for this because we knew we had to put a lot of money into it This is a seven thousand dollar hit that I I have no way to reconcile or recover I can't work my way out of this. I can't you know, you can't get more rent, you know The rent Basis is figured at you know the 800 to 850 dollars per month that you can get for a small, you know two-bedroom houses You know, even when they're really nice, you know, maybe some people get a thousand bucks a month or something for them But we typically don't In the older neighborhood, so that's my story and that's what I'm here for and I'm hoping that Some place along the line you folks will take a good hard look at this. I would just like Some consideration on it. I think We're getting clobbered here, and I don't think it's justifiable at the extent we're getting clobbered, so Thank you. Thank you for your comments, mr. Doyle Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard? Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard please step forward? Name address and the property or the street here Cooper Dyke come from Cedarburg, Wisconsin have property up here in Cheboygan, and I'm here for 2.4. I think just more of a suggestion When you get into these a little bit like the previous speaker It's a little bit of a surprise not knowing I have properties and other municipalities And this is kind of a shock where all of a sudden these fees kind of come out I think it'd be really prudent if you guys had like a website where you could actually explain the fees that we Could possibly be hit for you know when you buy a property what we're actually, you know responsible for Milwaukee you don't have to pay for curbs or anything like that you'll have to pay for your approach But you don't pay for curves so that type of thing is a little bit of a surprise some of the other places I have it you don't have that type of thing They'll grind everything down and you don't get a tax or an additional tax on top of your taxes So if there was a website or if there was some sort Place on the Cheboygan website that said if you buy property here These are the things that you could be responsible for and these are the additional fees that you may have coming forward That we we assess so it is kind of surprised like the previous speaker It is a bit of a shock when all of a sudden you hear that this type of thing is going to happen and then You know, I've got pictures that this is probably not the forum to talk about it Maybe I need to talk to the city engineer But when I look at the curves and I have only owned property here for a short period of time according to my neighbor, and I'm not going to say Exactly he told me that they were recently done. I don't know what recently That's relative to then five years ago. Maybe ten, but the curve looks really great So you know in other municipalities where I have property to come in they grind down the road It sounds like the resurfacing I can even see green laterals the brand new green lateral Which I would think the overflow pipes for rain sewer or something like that But anyway, they look brand new they look fairly new So obviously the worst recently been done and then along the curb if you're looking at it You can see where the dirt wasn't backfilled, you know, it wasn't recently backfilled So it's still kind of a hollow behind there so The question that I have is not only should something be put on the website So if you have an idea of what's coming or could be coming But secondly it looks like some of these things have already been done And are we gonna be paying for this place according to my neighbor were paying for this place So I don't know if that has to happen or not The curves look great here. There is one house. I do have what they don't look great They're beat up and for the previous speaker's point you have if you just own the house and you're paying for 40 years with the damage I'm wondering if we're redoing things a little bit too much. I mean, I'd be happy to leave the pictures with you Maybe this isn't the forum. Maybe it needs to go to City engineers in the back of the room in middle so you could leave that with him Okay, all right, and just a question. I don't know that the last question would be You know, if this has been recently done How many times do we have to do it again? That's you know, can we be expected to have to pay for it again? Is there you know a 10 year five year 15 year when do we have to pay these? Fees again. That's it just be nice to know I think maybe a little bit more communication as to what you guys do as a municipality and what People need to be aware of as far as speeds that would be a good heads up Okay, thank you. Thanks for your comments and appreciate your suggestion Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Please come forward. Hi. My name is Jake. Sure. I'm 1605 South 17th Street. I'm 2.1 I guess maybe this has already been discussed So if I'm beating the same horse it's already been beaten. I apologize, but I guess my big question is when I got this bill I'm All the other people here who are also kind of for the same issue are a little concerned I mean You know, you kind of take a look at all the areas around here that were middle-class working hard-working citizens Mine's not a terribly huge amount compared to some of the other guys that have spoken But it's still a huge hit for me. I've got a one and a half year old at home recently married Trying to make things work And all of a sudden we get a $2,500 assessment on a road that quite honestly, South 17th Street is one of the more heavily Driven-on roads in the city On the south side there people come flying by there 40 45 miles an hour all the time But we call and complain about speed, but we don't ever get anybody coming and Keeping an eye on that stuff. We have to worry about now I have to worry about my one and a half year old run around playing in our yard making sure that that stuff's Taking care of but like that's a whole separate issue, but it's just kind of frustrating when you come in and I've been there for a little over two and a half years now, so I Guess I didn't anticipate anything like this. I'm this is my first home So this is kind of a shock to me when you expect something like this But the questions I do have is what is the complete scope? I mean in my letter here It says that I'm responsible for my portion of the property So it says I got 45 Lineal feet of resurfacing of the asphalt and 45 feet of the curbing gutter. So I guess if the Maybe this is also not the right form, but I guess if someone can just explain to me What exactly the resurfacing is that is going to be done? Like I know that there was some stuff done on 8th Street just north of Michigan Avenue There was also some resurfacing done on Union Avenue just west of business Drive Just last fall. It's already tearing up I don't want to pay $2,000 for this and this stuff is poorly done and then all of a sudden a year from now you guys are back here and creating traffic issues for us again and Potentially throwing more costs at us. I Also, I'm taking a look at the curb in front of my house as the last gentleman had said The curb in front of my house is perfectly fine There were no cracks prior to a month and a half ago Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures before you guys started, but there are now cracks I've since taken pictures because there's also been two additional cracks in the sidewalk So I guess it's kind of frustrating if we're going to then be Charged and held responsible for that even though there is all the heavy equipment big heavy trucks things like that that are out They're now causing additional damage. I know that that's kind of the nature of the beast, but that's a little frustrating I guess is there is someone out there that can kind of explain is it actually, you know We're only responsible for the curb and gutter where necessary. So if the curb and gutter is in good condition It's just an assessment saying that this is your property line You are potentially going to be charged up to this amount. Is that kind of how it's to be read? And then they're nodding in the back I think that's true and then the resurfacing is it going to be a complete Demolition of the existing asphalt rather than what they did on like Union Avenue and So it'll be what we call a mill infill where we're grind off the current asphalt Bring it down to the level where there's usually concrete and then we'll add new asphalt to it. Okay, so it'll be a different process Perfect. Okay. That was a secondary question I had so thank you All three of you for explaining That kind of clears my questions Thanks for your time. All right. Thank you for your comments Is there anyone else wishing to be heard Is there anyone else wishing to be heard? Is there anyone else wishing to be heard Alderman Donahue? Thank you mayor. I would move to close the hearings Thank you for that motion and support all those in favor of closing the hearings, please signify by saying aye Opposed motion passes next move on to consent agenda that'll include items 3.2 through 3.2 to Alderman Donahue Thank you mayor. I would move to accept and file all reports of Officers accept and adopt all reports of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances Thank you for that motion and support the consent agendas before us. Are there any Items to be discussed in that consent agenda Seeing none with a clerk, please call the roll for passage 14 eyes motion passes Next one we'll run to reports of officers Item 4.1 will lie over till July 5th Items 4.3 through 4.9 will be referred to various committees Under resolutions 5.1 is a resolution by Alderman will authorizing the city of Sheboygan to enter into a contract for information technology contractor services Alderman Donahue Thank you mayor as an initial matter I would move to suspend the rules Is there any objection to suspension? Alderman Bellinger We have a person in the IT department that's going off to serve in the military and we need to Get this new person hired or this contract executed so that they can fill in and have a little bit of time Probably it may be a part of a week to work with that person before she leaves for her military service You're welcome Okay, there's no objections to suspension Please proceed I would move to put the resolution upon its passage Thank you for that motion and support Resolution is before us. Is there any discussion Alderman Wolf? Thank you for that amendment. Is there any discussion on the amendment see none all those in favor Alderman Bellinger Alderman Wolf would you like to expand on that? The intent is to pass it tonight with the amendment Is that answered for you It seems like there's So the issue relates primarily to the contract There are three there were three different Potential companies that we'd be using to fill this each of them has a very different contract The person who was chosen our office didn't get the contract until Friday afternoon because it takes a little bit of time you want to do your due diligence make sure you're hiring the right person and We've looked at the contract, but there are some issues with it that we've identified and we want to make sure that those Issues get resolved before we actually sign the document. So the intent here primarily is for you to approve The action of hiring this person and signing a contract, but we don't want you to actually Approve well, you don't even have a contract in front of you The city attorney's office would like to actually review the contract and make sure we're not signing something crazy And so that's really the intent here is to give us the opportunity to review this Without necessarily having to come back when it would be too late to get this person in What is the Council would still need to approve it though in in two weeks and the issue that you've got is that by the time two weeks has passed We need to have this person on board At least that's my understanding of it Alderman boring Thank You mayor when I read over this document today. I see that the The fee cannot exceed $45,000 City attorney in that in that document that you're reviewing that contract is the $45,000 is going to just include services rendered or is there you know for you I saw one of the firms was from Appleton Are we going to be paying for the portal the portal for this person to come down from Appleton and work and then go Back is that going to be part of the $45,000? Is it just going to be services rendered? Thank you I have I have actually I was not the one who reviewed the contract this morning Attorney Simon did so so I'm not sure of that answer. I don't know if our IT director has that particular information However, I would note that the resolution does put that cap of $45,000 on there So, you know, it's services It says enter into a contract for IT services for seven period for a cost not to exceed 45,000 So I interpret that that the council's intent would be that the entire cost is no more than 45 It's also my understanding that we Maybe even we'll be able to do better than that Alderman boring If I could just follow up is it a is it unusual in a contract like this when we have a third party coming in to provide service that Are we just usually paying for services or are we also sometimes paying for? Travel time and that type of thing to and from it would be laid out in in the contract exactly How you know what we're paying for and how but you're still going to have a Total I'd like to ask IT director David Augustine to come up and explain that point a little further Go ahead What the agreement's going to involve is Substituting our current employee that we have going on military leave so it is going to be services That is are done for us in that role of what the person has now It does not include nor will there be any cost of travel time between their designated location in here and back Which is purely what are the fees for the hourly rate based on the hours they spend here? And it's based on a 40-hour work week no overtime or anything like that and We do have it down to one vendor with a candidate It's actually tech systems on one of the ones that you have and that's at an hour rate of $35 an hour is what it's going to be so I've been in communication with that group. They know we have to rework the language so it's happy on both sides and as Attorney Roe Simon and attorney Adamus, excuse me. I had a little bit of a thing there We know those those have to be tweaked for the right language So both sides are happy but it's pretty much standard across what other businesses do Rather than going through because of the military leave the job has to be open when she comes off of leave So we can't really hire anybody as a full-time employee So that's why we're taking this approach Okay Alder and Donahue My question has been answered. Thank you. Okay. Is there any other discussion on the motion or the amendment? I'm sorry Okay, all those All those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye Opposed the amendment passes and when the is there any other discussion on the main motion as amended? Seeing none then will the clerk please call the roll 12 eyes to nose motion passes Items 5 point through through 5.5 will be referred to various committees Under reports of committees 6.1 is an RC by finance to whom was referred number 30 of 16 17 by Alder person Schneider Providing for the sale of approximately 2,740,000 in general obligation refunding bonds series 20 2016 see and recommends passing the resolution Alderman Donahue Thank you mayor. I would move to adopt accept and pass the resolution second Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll for passage 13 eyes 1 no Motion passes item 6.2 is an RC by committee the whole to whom is referred resolution number 28 of 16 17 by Alderman Bellinger to oppose the county proposed sales tax increase and recommends that the resolution be passed Alderman Heidemann I make a motion to accept and adopt Thank you for that motion and support under discussion Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll 14 eyes Motion passes Item 6.3 is an RC by the committee of the whole to whom is referred RC number 16 of 16 17 by the strategic fiscal planning committee Who reviewed and approved the goals and parameters? for the city administrators 2017 executive budget is identified by the city administrator and recommends that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Alderman Heidemann Again, I make a motion to accept and adopt this resolution Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? I mean boring Thank You mayor, I'm gonna vote yes on this tonight with the understanding that we are still going to have the discussion At a future date at the committee of the whole regarding renewing the garbage sheet my understanding correct that we're gonna be doing that That was my understanding after we Yeah, that meeting has been pushed off till the latter part of July So that correct Alderman Heidemann Okay, and then after that the council will be taking a final vote on whether we are going to extend the garbage fee after that discussion Is that correct correct? Thank you Any other discussion all those in favor, please signify by saying aye Opposed motion passes Moving on to ordinances items 7.1 through 7.3 will be referred to various committees under matters laid over 8.1 is resolution number 22 of 1617 by Alderman drawn and Rob Confirming the exercise of police power and making assessments for those benefited properties against which Assessments are proposed for resurfacing Seaman Avenue from Calumet to North 21st Street Alderman Donahue Thank you for that motion and support is there any discussion on the motion seen none Alderman Donahue. Thank you You know in all the years that I've been on the council I think this is one of the first times that we've actually had people show up and complain I Just want to say from my perspective. It has always been my position special assessments for roads are deeply unfair and And and you know, I it's it's my my motto. It's not fair Particularly I see I can see why people would need to Pay for their sidewalks to be fixed because we assume responsibility for our sidewalks and so forth We don't assume responsibility for plowing the streets people who live on streets that are busier tend to get higher assessments and be financially Indisposed because of these special assessments But here's the deal It's like if we don't have a chicken there's no egg These special assessment funds provide a pretty vital part of our road repair budget Now I remember when I was first on the council and really began to understand how special assessments work Talking to Jim Amodio about it and saying isn't there a better way of doing this quite, you know This just isn't fair people who own a longer Piece of property have more linear feet end up paying more money and the shock when you open that I remember my folks on North 4th Street You know who lived on a limited income? I remember the shock they had when they opened the special assessment letter and learned that they had to pay X thousands of dollars and they could do it over three years Although the finance rate was relatively high But the plain fact is is what do we do without the money? And I think that's the challenge for the city is to try to figure out What we do To make this fairer a fairer process right now We can't make these repairs if we don't have these special assessments. I mean, that's just that's just the fact of it There is no money that would be available There would not be enough money available to make these repairs So while I sympathize with our speakers here today, and I think they bring up exceedingly valid points At least as far. I don't know about the curbs that Seems like a factual matter I think one of the challenges that we have as a council is to look for ways to replace the special assessment It's my understanding I could be wrong, but and when we get federal grants you can't specially assess so I think over time we really need to address this problem We need to go forward and figure out how to do it now just as a reminder the city's tax rate because of State legislation has been absolutely flat We have been able to make tiny tiny increases in our overall Levy rate and our overall levy just depending on businesses moving in and out of the community and so forth We can't just raise taxes To get rid of these special assessments We can't just raise taxes to to fund things that we think that we ought to fund so I think as a council it really is a challenge for us to look at this and See if there is some way that we can make this fair It's just not fair Thank you for those comments Alderman Bellinger Thank You mayor. I Echo some of the same Concerns that Alderman Donahue just spoke about I Received a special set assessment a number of years ago, and I was not on the council at that time I did call my Alderman at that point in time. That was Eldenburg and You know gave him an earful and thought of you know there would be a better way to do that In Alderman Donahue if you remember a number of years ago when Eisner Avenue was Redone there was a special hearing here and there was quite a few people here that spoke There was one individual that did speak and they were Granted immunity from the special assessment at that meeting What what what I have a problem with is is that? We've got a wheel tax now. We've we've may or may not have a garbage fee that would be dedicated to roads in the future We've you know we bond for some and we do special assessments, but the special assessments are Selective they're not uniform if there is an area of town where there's block grant money Available will resurface that area and they won't be assessed so it's it's it's selective and that's what I have a huge problem with and People that spoke this evening. They had they had compelling issues one of my other problems that I have is with This process the people that came up and spoke tonight They all spoke very eloquently. They all have individual circumstances They all may be legitimate concerns, but After just hearing that now we're supposed to you know take under advisement those special circumstances and vote on it right away At this meeting, you know after the hearing without having any You know documentation written documentation Reviewing things having to go through the public works committee I'm the director of the public works committee as well So I've had conversations with director Bebel and made him aware that I wasn't a big fan of assessments But like Alderman Donahue mentioned Without having the special assessments, you know, there's you know Little or or no roads that are going to be done because you know, that's where the money is generated from But in the future, I think it needs to be addressed I think this process needs to be looked at and be a little bit different So that we're not putting Alderman on the spot at you know When we have people that come up with hardship and individual cases that that may or may not be legitimate and You know, I think there's a better way to do this and I'm not you know real happy with this process Thank you for those comments I'd like to ask engineer Ryan sassman to come up and just give us a little bit of a flavor of you know We established that there's some curb and gutter that was included in the assessment But it may not be charged and you could just explain to us How that's done I guess the first thing I'd like to do is just give a little bit of history on some of these streets Like for instance same an avenue the last time that whole section of street the resurface was between 1972 and 1983 So we've gotten well over 40 years out of the surfacing process the last time so 17th Street was the surface between Georgia Avenue and Union Avenue was approximately 1978 from 70 74 to 78 certain sections were done So again, it was done well over 40 years ago and also South 9th Street the section from Indiana down to Alabama That was done between 72 and 75 that section. So you're looking at yeah again a well over 40 years Again to talk a little bit about the assessment process Granted some of some of these streets. Oh, I would consider this as such as South 17th Street a Minor collector and it's almost it's 48 feet wide, but they're only assessed for a residential street It's only 36 feet wide the additional 36 feet 48 the city picks up 100% of the cost and how the assessment works with Like for for instance with the resurfacing The city picks up 50% of the cost in each homeowner it pays for 25% of the cost That's what their assessment is $23 per foot for the resurfacing. That's that's it's preliminary assessment I feel feels fairly close and again to talk about the curb and gutter. We all released out the assessment It's always the worst-case scenario as if we're removing all the curb and gutter like the one gentlemen mentioned We really won't know how much the curb and gutter has to be replaced until we remove the asphalt and again It's a mill and fill operation will remove all three four five inches of the asphalt Then we'll have a chance to look at the curb and gutter and see exactly what has to be replaced Sometimes it's only a three four foot section. Sometimes it is the whole front of it You really don't know that until until you remove the asphalt Okay, once again city picks up 50% of that cost for the curb for the curb and gutter. I appreciate those comments Let's move on to alderman drawing Thank you. I appreciate that. This is very pertinent I had someone today ask me a question and it's regarding traffic that is a little heavier than normal He lives on 17th coming off of Kohler Memorial a lot of some eyes go back and forth. Is that something that is? Taking into consideration or move towards some of the industry that's using that more in terms of how it's proportioned out Or how does that figure into it? You mean like for the assessment I guess I'm right because if the road is being heavily used Let's say with some eyes and it's a residential road and they're coming down this road. There's more wear and tear on that section Will that be in some regards figured through to the companies that are close to that area or is that strictly just if you Right no, it's the assessment whoever if you got fringe on that street It's going to be your cost But again the city the city looks at a wider street such as a cell 17th or same and I believe that's 40 or 42 and South 9th Street is 40 or 42 feet wide again We only assess for a residential street which with our ordinances 36 feet wide The city picks up that additional cost Ryan. Could you please explain the life of a road? So if a road is redone and it has a 30-year life expectancy In only last 15 years, how do you handle that when you when you charge assessments the next time right our Our concrete streets when we repave like an eyes on our Avenue. That's to our city ordinance That's that's guaranteed for 30 years for the homeowner are we surfacing like this is Through the city ordinance is guaranteed for 15 years and with these resurfacing projects We've gotten well in the 20 25 years for the for the mill and fill and for some reason it would fail Then there would be a credit coming back to the to the homeowner because it didn't didn't meet its warranty But we've never had a asphalt street not not meet its 15-year warranty. Thank you Let's see next is Alderman Donahue. Thank you When I spoke before I spoke to the general process being unfair in my opinion And I'm just going to call on on attorney Adams It would also be profoundly unfair for us today to make individual determinations as almost as a judicial body Gathering information gathering evidence sitting and making decisions. I don't think that's the role of this council. I Don't think that we can make I mean there's rule of uniform taxation So we're not allowed as as a council to decide this property owner You know only has to pay three dollars a foot and this property owner only has to pay two dollars and this one has to pay ten Otherwise, I guarantee you that whenever an assessment is done these chambers will be filled and we will be here for hours and hours Acting as judge and jury in terms of making individual assessments My overall concern is the assessment process and is there a better way to do it and is there something that is is fair So I just I don't want us to go down the path of making for the folks who were good enough and Energetic enough to come out and speak It was three tonight next time. It'll be 30 time after that will be 300. That's just not what we're here for I think so the assessment process is Delt with by state statute. I was actually going to pull up the statute and read some important pertinent sections, but The internet's not working properly, so I can't reach the site But I but I can tell you that there is a uniform process that that you have to follow if you assess And there is uniformity in that assessment as well So you can't as you've mentioned you can't pick and choose As I think all the person Bellinger pointed out there was an issue on Eisner Avenue And the court and the council did end up approving an Individual to not pay as much but that actually was also the result of a court action and the court interpreted the The statute on assessments in a particular way and the city followed that court interpretation so there are there may be Opportunities to deal with it in that regard but in general the statute is pretty clear that absent very specific Exceptions which I'm not aware applying any of these circumstances We have to apply it uniformly and city attorney. I don't believe in that case on Eisner Avenue the Assessment was dispatched. I think it's still on the property and when it's developed then it will be incurred Right, so it's still there, but it's just been delayed because the property is undeveloped and has some special Designation special care risk. That's correct Alderman Bellinger Thank You mayor I've got a couple things first. I'd like to correct the record for Attorney Adams and in yourself mayor that one property was joint owned between Websters and God sack or I Can't think of what the other name was of the property. It was a wetland area. It was a low area and you are correct it was Deemed at the point one point time unbuildable and so it was adjusted There was another homeowner further to the north on the corner I believe she was handicapped and they had a handicapped or a developing disabled child In the way that that that that corner was redone They their assessment was waived completely waived so that did happen so if you go back and look that that is the case and Then my other question would be then to Alderman Donahue I'm not sure what her intent is if we're not going to This body shouldn't you know adjudicate these individual circumstances at this point in time Are we going to file or put old all of these? You know and until such time we get more documentation and and and we have a chance to look at it Or how are we going to proceed with this if that is what your intent is all of them down to you? My intent is that we need to pass these assessments tonight It is not the role of this legislative body to act in a judicial kind of capacity If we were going to do that I think we would have to give notice to each and every property owner That he or she or they could come in for a hearing Before this body acting as a judicial body and at that hearing they could be represented by counsel They could call witnesses they could present evidence and for those of you who have participated in such Activities you know that one hearing of course would take a substantial period of time So I don't think legally We can Make any individual adjustments tonight. I would certainly defer to to attorney Adams on that my My concern is the process as a whole. I don't think special assessments as a whole are fair And I think probably most of us would probably agree with that. It's just There's no other money at this point. So as we are going forward, you know, we're looking at potentially getting rid of the garbage fee Potentially doing this potentially doing that. We just need to remember that The reason we do special assessments is because that's the money that we use to make these road repairs in part The city pays in part and property owners that they pay in part. I'm just saying overall, that's not fair What would be profoundly unfair is if tonight we made these individual adjustments to people who who came out because then I I Can foresee a circumstance in which we would have to come back and look at all of these special assessments as I say provide Procedural due process to these folks who are also likewise affected and didn't know that they could come in and make a case And and we I don't think we're capable of doing that tonight. And it's just not our role I would defer to attorney Adams Attorney Adams anything to add to that Yeah, the same same thing I said before in essence There you have to follow the statute if you're gonna do assessments. There are some provisions in the statute where you treat people differently than Uniformly and I as far as I'm aware and from what I've heard tonight. None of those meet those circumstances director Bebel did you want to offer any other comments and And while David's coming up Alderman Bellinger Thanks for pointing out that there were two different parcels with I thought we were talking about one and not two different ones Go ahead David. Thank you. Yeah, I just Special assessments have been part of I guess our procedures and policies for Street and road construction for the last 40 some plus years What we've done over the years have tried to tweak that process to make it as fair as possible For the residents so a lot of the concerns about I'm on a busy street. The trucks are pounding on it We take that into consideration and then the assessment that is Handed down is the same as would be a 36 foot wide street That's in a residential area with maybe two blocks long with hardly any traffic or any industry or any trucks ever going down That street so that that's a factor the other thing is we've had Multiple letters that have gone out to the all the proper knows we actually had prior to even the assessments going out We had a preliminary Preconstruction notification come on down open houses where Department of Public Works and their engineering staff We would hold neighborhood meetings with the residents to give them an alert Let them know what the projects are what what what the project entails Then the preliminary assessments go out by state statute part of the procedures with this So that gives them an opportunity as well then to see this is what the potential cost is we now have the bids So now we send out the assessments with the actual bid figures in and as we mentioned those preliminary assessments We we tend to err on the high side So that when we do actually get the figures in it's in the Residence favor in other words. It's a lower cost than with the initial. Yeah, so we talked about curbing gutter curbing gutter Again, we estimate everything's coming out in many cases That's not the case and a lot of cases the curbing gutter is perfect We mill off the asphalt in some cases. We don't have to touch the curb it can remain as is again overall lower in the overall out full Flow of money from the resident but as part of our Process we've talked about getting a back into What are we going to do with the state of the city of the roads? We got to get fixed We got to do something. This is the first step along that process tonight We have on the agenda 1.6 million dollar contract to Begin that process and the special assessments are key to that if the special assessments this evening Don't get passed and get delayed. We don't get to do the contract either So they go hand-in-hand and all we're asking is just to be aware of that when you're making your decisions this evening Thank you for those comments any other discussion Aldermen Bellinger. Thank you mayor Last time when we did Eisner Avenue We did adjudicate that one individual and we did relieve them of their obligation to pay So the body does does do that, you know, whether they should do that or they shouldn't do that I'm not going to argue that legal point because I'm not qualified to I don't have that that background but What I'm concerned about is is that we post this in the minutes. We send out notices We make the residents aware we send out assessments. We have a hearing and then they come to the hearing and We can't do anything for them or do anything about it So is it an act of futility to you know to even go through this process and are these people just wasting their time? You know, I just I have a problem with it I I I get you know that we need to do assessments. I get that we need to you know get the contract I get but there's got to be a way for individuals to address and have the body hear it and take it Seriously and and look at it in some way shape or form And you know to Alderman's Donahue's point that you know, we can't you know say, you know Joe Smith down the street, you know, he's at forty five dollars a foot, you know and sue You know Jones is at thirty two dollars. So, you know, I get that that we can't do that But there's got to be a way that these people can be heard and their concerns You know that they're taken seriously and that you know that they're valid and or not And that the bot in this body considers that and and moves forwards I just think you know just going through because we can't we can't you know take it You know their points, you know because we have to run this through today You know, I just think the process to me is goofy and it needs to it needs to be there needs to be a better Process with the hearing, you know with the time frame and with approving and in how these individual cases are adjudicated in my opinion and You know some of these people have legitimate, you know Concerns and you know just to to blow it off and and not take it into account I guess I guess I have a problem with that. So I Just want to make that that clear Thank you for those comments. Is there any other discussion Alderman Lassard? Yeah, in order to prove the contract to start construction We need we need to have action this evening It's a night tonight, I mean the contract has already been we had bids about a month ago we received the bids and That's why we're having Yes, we're having the The hearings this evening as well as the Approval of the contract on the Common Console now we had probably close to with all the projects between South 17th Street same in Avenue 6th Street 9th Street George Avenue and Kentucky Avenue probably over 300 special assessments were out and this evening out of the hearing We've had four show up and speak so I yeah, I understand they have specialized individual concerns, but but So the point the point the point being is that the point being is that we we we had we've had multiple meetings We've we've had residents from 17th Street, we've had different we've had about four different meetings one for some self 17th Street We had a meeting for 6th Street. We had a meeting for same in Avenue Different meetings specifically for those residents on those streets to come in look at the project We could sit down with our staff talk about the process of the construction talk about the assessments talk about how this process works So back to my question as to you have to have the contract sign Whoever you're having do this work What is there a deadline on there? There is the bids the bids are only available to be held for 60 days After 60 days, then the bids become null and void and we have to go out for new bids In July here, so it doesn't have to be approved. Well the next meeting July what okay? So our next council meeting we'd still have enough time. Would we not? potentially So our next meeting would be on July 5th, is that still meet your calendar? With the contract we mailed out to the contractor for the resurfacing technically He has he can start July 1st with the with the with this contract So we gave him we gave this contractor whoever got the bids in the specs It was from July 1st October 7th. You have that window to get this work done So we'd pull this contract back but not approved before July 1st We would have to re-bid it because we're not we're not following the specs that we bid we bid the project at 60 days Okay, but the way When we when we bid out the project we don't necessarily always have 60 days between awarding the contract and letting the contractor start with this contract We bid it out. We told the contractor You can start this project anywhere between job July 1st He's got to be done by October 7th So if we don't approve the contract we would have to re-bid it because we would not be following our Our specs we sent out. We told the contractor he can start by July 1st So if he comes in and says why I'm gonna start July 1st, and we don't approve this now until July 5th We're not we're not following our our specifications that we that we that we bid out City attorney So a couple of things to remember the question was asked Well, why do we even bother to have these hearings? Is there anything that we can do about this and The purpose of the hearings isn't I think we're getting mixed up There's really two issues going on here the purpose of the hearing is for the overall assessment So you had a hearing on the entire project of Salmon Avenue from Calumet to North 21st You had a hearing on the entire project of Kentucky Avenue from South East to South 9th Street So now what you can do is either approve that project or disapprove of that project by voting on on each of those items Now what we're the questions seem to be more revolving around the Individuals and whether there's something that we can do for the individual as opposed to the whole group as a whole Is there a way to let? One particular property owner get a break as opposed to all of the others that you can't do at this point There is some uniformity requirements and again It's built in to the statute and we have to follow the statute the individuals do have Some ability even after today To contest this but they'll have to contest it as individuals after today What you're voting on tonight is on a project as a whole Not and if you postpone it two weeks, you're still only going to be voting on the project as a whole You will not be voting on let's allow neighbor a to get ten You know a thousand dollars cut off his and let's let neighbor be get five hundred dropped off hers Thank you for that explanation going on to conversations or dalderman Donahue actually Attorney Adams, I think has made the point that we need to make and I would just suggest because our Citizens our constituents are very interested in getting road projects going that we vote tonight Approve these get the ball rolling and then to whatever extent there are various appeal rights and so forth Individuals who came tonight should be feel free to to contact attorney Adams for further information Thank you for those comments Alderman Damrell Spoken That's the city clerk to explain that I think maybe our finance director could maybe explain it more Nancy would you please step forward? when the original letters were mailed out they were mailed out with the wrong date and We did notice it and we sent out new letters, and that's why the hearing was tonight More than the ten days, right? We mailed them by Okay, June 6th Those were prior to the mailings I mean Just Michael go ahead Mike This in April and in mid-April and early May we had four separate meetings one strictly for the self-neighborhood area I'm what we had it from 4 to 5 30 Well my information my information is on there my email my my phone number. I mean, it's it there's all Pardon me A lot of stuff is scheduled like for 4 o'clock 3 30 3 o'clock people work till 5 they go home see their kids But we could just no question we could extend our public information meetings until 6 o'clock Thank you Alderman Damrell Alderman boring Thank you, mayor. There's a process when we get our property tax bills I think it's what is it called open book where we get a chance to appear before that group and Make our case why our assessment should be should be changed Attorney Adams is there do you know of any other communities how they handle this? What would be a mech-ignism where we could handle these individual these individual situations like these people had tonight? Before it gets to us and then have that committee maybe make a recommendation to us Because I you know with all with what Alderman Donahue said You know we may not be in a legal position to make these individual choices here Is there another mech-ignism? We could use like an open book for these assessment type things before they get to the council Well so these additional meetings that were held they are not required by statute so they're additional It's basically the city has imposed upon itself an additional requirement that that we do these meetings What do other communities do well as as has been mentioned not all communities especially assess for Roads some should choose to do it in other ways as far as what do other communities do as far as sort of informal meetings I can't tell you that I know there are some communities that just follow the statute and don't do Additional meetings. I suspect that some of those are much smaller communities You know where where there's probably more likely to be one-on-one Commentary the community I worked in prior to coming to Shabuigan. That's how it was that's how it was done But in a community of it was listed as 10,000 But since a good portion of those are prison inmates, you know, it's really a community of 5,000 Little easier for that one-on-one communication Other other methods it really is it's it's open to your creativity if there are better ways to meet with people one-on-one then Opening it up to a meeting and and then also sending out a letter inviting people to either the meeting or to contact The city engineer and providing in all of his contact information. We could do that City attorney earlier where you mentioned something about a process or they could come in and Question these after the fact there there is an appeal process for special assessments. Yes. Okay. Thank you Thank you Alderman Warren. I was just going to follow up mayor If we wanted to bring this up as a as a discussion What committee would be appropriate to come up with another? Another mechanism sim similar to the open book would that be something that would be discussed by the public works Department Public Works committee of the finance committee. I Think we should have that discussion to see if there is another mechanism Similar to open book that these people can go before they come here and let those let that committee make a Recommendation to us on these individual cases if there are some well, I would think you know David and Ryan are the ones that have really been working this program And I think we should depend on public works to have that first discussion Alderman That's it any money other discussion Alderman the side We can't pick and choose who pays what to do we can't do that it's not a legal form to do it so I Personally if I'm getting assessed and I see that there's a hearing and I can come in here and speak I'm probably expecting my committee or my my council to do something about it We are telling them very loudly unless I'm misunderstanding what's being said We're having a hearing to be happy to hear what you have to say Anything else City attorney Again, you do have an option remember that the hearings are about the project as a whole The hearings are not about the individual circumstances. So the people who are coming in are speaking either in favor of or against the project as a whole if You feel that they've provided sufficient information that you don't think that project as a whole should go ahead Your option is to vote against it to say we're not going to do that project project What your vote on this and the purpose of the hearing is is based on the projects not the individual circumstances There's a separate process called appeal special assessments since in section 66.0703 of the statutes That determines the the individual special assessments if people feel that Individually not the project as a whole if they are okay with the project as a whole but feel that they've been treated Unfairly as opposed to their other neighbors. That's the process that they would use When they're in a hearing, I guess my question All the men lasard if you're gonna continue this discussion we need to have a motion to open the floor Yeah, that's correct Correct Alderman Jose Well, I think that the purpose of the year when the legislature Made it a requirement that we have hearings of this type. It couldn't have been for a redundant purpose to just hear people talk so I reject The I reject the idea that we can't make special Exceptions like was done with the woman on Eisner Avenue first of all Second of all if you're telling me that all we can do is vote yes or no Then 100% of the people here that he responded at this hearing 100% of the constituents of this city that responded this hearing Said they don't want to be assessed and zero people said they wanted to be assessed therefore. I'm voting against it Thank you for those comments any other discussion on the motion Alderman Bellinger for attorney Adams I'm So The reason for a hearing is to have the total scope of each of these individual projects looked at so went to hearing have The city engineer and the director public works and go through the whole scope and wouldn't it be like an Internal kind of thing rather than invite public unless the public is only going to speak on the total scope and if so Are the are the public that comes here to speak told ahead of time that they can only speak on the total scope of the project Not their individual circumstance in that there is a process for remediation or appeals for their individual circumstance I'm just wondering how is the public how was that information communicated to the public and why did we you know? Why does it get to this point where you know? We've got people that obviously spent a lot of time putting together Their case and coming before this body and you know stating their individual case And why wasn't that just ruled out of order? You know before it even happened. I'm just curious Well first of all to answer your last question first reason It wouldn't be ruled out of order is because it is is a public hearing people are able to speak at a public hearing and even if they're not speaking entirely Dermain to the circumstance. Okay, they're permitted to speak and It is fair to say that individual circumstances can have an impact on the project as a whole So you may have people coming in and saying all of us neighbors, you know, we we have a problem with this We can't afford it. It's too expensive. We don't think the project was done properly or you know, we don't We don't think that this street should be paved We want a cracked street because it'll slow Slow people down on on their street. That was my opinion when they assessed me when I lived on North 9th Street I would have rather had a bad street But it is still Focused on the project as a whole and that's what the statute says now as far as what does the letter say to explain to them It's a letters. We're not sending them a seven page book explaining every detail of of the entire statute They're simply being told you have the right to come and appear and and to speak to it Once once that's completed. They certainly do have that opportunity then to take the step individually The statutes do separate that out their sections on the assessments their sections on the hearings And then there's sections on the appeal of the individual assessments And so I think the legislature laid it out fairly clearly how the process is to work I think one of the one of the reasons why there's probably some Confusion question about this is we haven't done this in quite some time It used to be our regular practice to do this. It hasn't been done in a while and it's I think the public It's it's a new thing again for them, but that is how the the statute does work. Thank you Thank you for those comments any other discussion from the body Seeing none 8.1 is before us all those in favor of 8.1. Please signify by saying aye No, the clerk tells me we need to do roll calls Please vote on 8.1 Motion is to pass the resolution Nobody's done it. No very voting is already started We're voting right now. I'm sorry. We can't have any other discussion Nine eyes five nose on the first one Motion passes Item 8.2 is resolution number 23 of 1617 Bear Alderman Donahue and Jose confirming the exercise of police power and making an assessment for those benefited properties against assessments I Proposed for the resurfing of Kentucky Avenue from South A Street to South 9th Street Alderman Donahue Thank you mayor. I would move to put the resolution upon its passage second. Thank you for that motion in support under discussion Seeing no discussion and please call the roll 11 eyes three nose Motion passes item 8.3 is resolution number 24 of 1617 Bear Alderman Donahue In Jose Herman and bitters confirming the exercise of police power for making an assessment for those benefited properties against Which assessments are proposed for resurfacing Georgia Avenue from South A Street to South 9th Street? Alderman Donahue. Thank you mayor. I move to put the resolution upon its passage second. Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion? Seeing none with a clerk, please call the roll Ten eyes four nose motion passes 8.4 is a resolution number 25 of 1617 by Alderman Donahue Jose Herman and bitters confirming the exercise of police power and making an assessment for those benefited properties Against which assessments are proposed for resurfacing South 9th Street from Indiana Avenue to Georgia Avenue Alderman Donahue Second thank you for that motion in support under discussion Alderman Jose I make a motion to Exempt Dave Ropinski from the assessment. Is there a second? Motion dies for lack of a second Is there any other discussion? Seeing none with a clerk, please call the roll Eight eyes six nose motion passes Item 8.5 is resolution number 26 of 1617 by Alderman Theo Lee Wendalski bitters and Herman confirming the exercise of police power and making an Assessment for those benefited properties against which assessments are proposed for resurfacing South 17th Street from 120 120 feet south of Arizona Avenue to Maryland Avenue Alderman Donahue Second thank you for the motion and support under discussion Seeing no discussion will look clerk. Please call the roll Eight eyes six nose Motion passes Item 8.6 is resolution number 27 of 1617 by Alderman bitters Officially recognizing the Indiana Avenue corridor neighborhood association Alderman Donahue I move to put this controversial resolution upon its passage second Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion on the resolution? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed Motion passes, and we welcome the new neighborhood association into the mayor's neighborhood leadership cabinet Move on to 8.7, which is an RC number 45 of 1617 by public works to whom is referred arrow number 39 of 1617 by the purchasing agent submitting bids for the resurfacing program and Resolution number 17 of 1617 by Alderman Bellinger authorizing entering into a contract for the 2016 by two minutes resurfacing program and recommends that the resolution be passed Alderman Bellinger Thank You mayor. I move to accept and adopt and pass the resolution second. Thank you for that motion and support under discussion Seeing no discussion with the clerk. Please call the roll 13 eyes one no motion passes Item 8.8 is general ordinance number three of 16 17 by Alderman Donahue Lee Wendowski and Wolf amending section 82 dash 33 of the municipal code Has to change the number of community service officers from two full-time positions to one full-time position in an additional part-time community service officers in the police department's table of organization Alderman Donahue. Thank you mayor. I move to put the ordinance upon his passage second Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk. Please call the roll 13 eyes one no motion passes Item 8.9 is general ordinance number four of 16 17 by Alderman Donahue Lee Wendusky and Wolf amending Section 8233 the municipal code as to delete one maintenance worker three tree trimmer and add a maintenance worker three arborist position to the Department of Public Works table of Organization Alderman Donahue. Thank you mayor. I move to put the ordinance upon his passage second Thank you for that motion and support under discussion Seeing no discussion with the clerk. Please call the roll 14 eyes motion passes for other matters returned to the city attorney 9.1 is a Resolution to rescind general ordinance number one 15 16 Reducing the number of sure we can all the persons from 16 to 10 and instead hold a binding referendum to allow the citizens of Sheboygan to vote on this That'll be referred to law and licensing 9.2 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2016 June 30 2017 and June 30 2018 that'll also be referred to the law and licensing committee Next is a contemplated closed session Alderman Donahue. Thank you mayor I move to convene in closed session pursuant to section 1985 sub one sub E of the Wisconsin statutes were competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session Related to redevelopment opportunities in the 600 block of North A Street Indiana Avenue corridor Second thank you for that motion and support with a clerk. Please call the roll for a closed session 14 eyes motion passes I just want to let our viewers at home know that will adjourn in closed session So this will be the end of our broadcast for the evening. We'll adjourn till 8 o'clock