 People of the internet, welcome to modern day debate. Tonight we are debating, our Quranic values good and we are starting right now. So I am Kaz, host of the 8th Edge. And tonight we have Apostate Prophet and Norea versus Rashid and Perfect Dawah. Each person is gonna have six minutes for a team total of 12 minutes for their opening statements. And then we're gonna have a 40 minutes of open discussion and then 35 minutes of Q and A. Perfect Dawah and Rashid as the affirmative will have the initial opening. So I will turn it over to them. I believe Perfect Dawah, you will have the first word. So at your first word, I will start the clock, the floor is all yours. All right, yeah, thank you very much. As a converted Muslim, I am definitely a much better person than before. And I believe that Islam teachings were not only beautiful and necessarily for the past but for today and for the future. Before converting to Islam, I supported punishment for crimes. But Islam taught me that we are all sinners and we have no right to judge or punish people but it is only God that has the right to judge and punish sinners. Quran chapter 88 verse 25 and 26. Indeed to us is their return. Then indeed upon us is their account. I believe Islam will guide us to a world without any hate and fight. Only peace, a world where only righteous people live in. Quran chapter 28 verse five. And we wanted to confer favor upon those who were oppressed on earth and make them leaders and make them inheritors on the earth. These are some of the teachings of Quran that has changed me and many others to be better people. Quran chapter 42 verse 40. And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it but whoever pardons and makes reconciliation his reward is due from Allah. Indeed he does not like wrongdoers. Chapter three verse 134. Who spent in the cause of Allah during seas and hardship and who restrained anger and who pardoned the people and Allah loves the doors of good. Chapter 42 verse 43. And whoever is patient and forgives indeed that is for of the matters requiring determination. Chapter 16 verse 126. And if you punish, punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed. But if you are patient, it is better for those who are patient. Chapter 23 verse 96. Oh Muhammad repel evil in the best manner. We all, we are well aware of all that they say about you. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said, you do not do evil to those who do evil to you but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness. He said, the pleasure you get in forgiveness you never get it in a revenge. Ali radiolah the closest companion of the Prophet said, hate no one, no matter how much they have wronged you and leave humbly, no matter how wealthy you become. Think positively, no matter how hard life is. Give much, even if you have been given little keep in touch with the ones you who have forgotten you and forgive who has wronged you. Hussain radiolah grandson of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. The most merciful person is the one who forgives when he has, he is able to take revenge. Imam Shafiq always hate what is wrong but do not hate the one who ears. Hate seeing with all your heart but forgive and have mercy on the sinner. Criticize speech but respect the speaker. Our job is to wipe out the disease, not the patient. Ali radiolah wrote to his governor of Egypt, Malik. He said, Malik, the worst people for you must be those who try to reveal people's mistakes and sins because people make mistakes and sins and the governor is the one who must cover them. Do not try to find out people's mistakes because your duty is to fix the problems that leads people to bad deeds and it is God's right to judge people, not yours. Cover people's mistakes and sins as much as you can so that God covers yours. Quran chapter two verse 177. Righteousness is not to turning your face towards the east or the west. Rather the righteous are those who believe in Allah the last day and the angels, the books and the prophets who gives charity out of their cherished wealth to relatives, orphans, the poor, needy, travelers, beggars and for freeing captives who establish prayer, pay our tax and keep the pledges they make and who are patient in the times of suffering, adversary and in the heat of battle. It is they who are true in faith and it is they who are mindful of Allah. Chapter four verse 75. And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and for oppressed men, women and children? Yes. Sorry? Just one minute left. All right, okay. And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of Allah for God, sorry, in God and for oppressed men, women and children who cry out, Lord, lead us towards freedom out of this land of oppressors. Through your grace, give us protector and helper. Chapter 16 verse 90, indeed Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. Chapter four verse 58, indeed Allah commands you to return things entrusted to you to their rightful owners. And when you judge people, better in people, judge with fairness. What a noble commandment from Allah to you. Surely Allah is all hearing, all seeing. Yeah, thank you very much. All right. Rashid, it's your first word, I'll start your clock. Yes, sure, thank you very much. Yes, my position on whether the values of the Quran are good or not is best mainly on their practical and beneficial aspect. And by this I mean the values portrayed in the Quran whether they are good for humanity or whether they can be implemented in a way that advances well-being. So in this discussion I will be, of course, arguing in the affirmative, namely that Quranic values are in fact good in of themselves and also good in advising our well-being. Now, does this mean that these values cannot be arrived at without the Quran? Of course not. Do they contradict what we perceive or what we have arrived at as good values today? I would say no, they do not. So during this discussion I'm going to give several examples but in my introduction, I would like to stick to some few examples as time does not permit me to go into all of them. But to simplify matters, you can, of course, categorize, you can break them down into different categories such as those values which are spiritual and those ones which are non-spiritual. In my introduction I'm going to only be, I'm going to touch on the non-spiritual, i.e. the practical and then later on if time allows it, during the discussion I will come into the spiritual. So when you're talking about different values within the Quran, you have, of course, the constitution or the legislative values and then you have the societal and the community ones and you also have the familiar, the one that have to do with family and you have the financials and the behavior values. So for me personally I do believe that when you look at those values, you can clearly see that the Quran does, in fact, advocate for good values and also it advocates those values as ways to advance the well-being of the human race. So in terms of the constitution, for example, or the legislative, the Quran commands to justice, excellence, fairness and equanimity. It prohibits corruption, oppression and aggression. In fact, according to the Quran, the primary reason why prophets and messengers were sent and given revelations was in order for people to establish justice and fairness upon the earth. Look in chapter 57 to find that the Quran instructs us to stand up as witnesses for justice and fairness, even if it is against our own selves, our parents or relatives, be we poor or rich and also not to lead with our desires in when we are rendering justice. It calls for us to be impartial in our dealings. The Quran calls for the implementation of law to be based on Haqq and by Haqq it means laws that are transparent and clear in their intent to serve and protect the well-being of the people not laws with the intent of favoring those who have made them and to deceive and beguile the people by robbing them of their God-given rights and freedoms. In terms of its communal or societal, the Quran commands the community to take care of those people who are unable or incapable of taking care of themselves such as orphans, the poor, the needy, the beggar, the neighbor, the traveler, the companion and so forth. The Quran commands no less than the highest level of goodness which is Ihsan and it commands it when it comes to the treatment of these groups of people. The same level of goodness that we are required to accord our parents. When dealing with orphans, the Quran commands that we deal with the orphans in the most respectable manner. It instructs us to always speak to them with kindness in surat al-Nisa, to always take them into consideration and always make sure that they are well cared for. The Quran commands us not to take a life which God has forbidden to be slain, i.e. the life of an innocent person, but it does permit retaliatory measures for the one who has been wrong. But yet even in that, often the Quran recommends a path of forgiveness. It also values and calls for the emancipation of those who are in chains, i.e slaves and captives. It calls for us to be neighborly with our neighbors. And in terms of its family related values, the Quran commands us to take care of our parents and to give our near relatives their rights to treat them with excellence. Ihsan, when the parents become of old age, the Quran commands us to take care of them in such a way that we are not supposed to be harsh in our communication with them. Meaning that we are not supposed to even say a word of disrespect to them or shun them. Instead, the Quran commands us or instructs us to speak to them in a respectable manner and to lower our wing of tenderness and gentility, i.e. Rahmah to them and to pray for them even when they might say or do something that we might not approve of. Regarding marriage, which is also under the family, the Quran commands us not to come close to adultery. When seeking marriage, the Quran instructs us to seek spouses with whom we are going to find tranquility and peace, i.e. Sakina. And which foster marriage is which foster action. Mawadah and gentility and tenderness, Rahmah. In terms of financials, the Quran instructs us to be moderate when we do spend not to be extravagant in such a way that we may end up bankrupting ourselves, not in order to completely refrain from giving anything at all, but to find a balance between these two extremes. In businesses, the Quran commands us, commands those engaging in business to be fair in their dealings and to give full weight and measure in the manner that is equitable, not to cheat or exhibit dishonesty with their customers. Now, I could go on and on and on, but unfortunately, I'm running out of time, but during the discussion, I will come in with more values, inshallah. All right, so thank you so much, Rashid, for your opening statement. And I will go ahead and reset the clock. And I believe, Pashti Prophet, you were gonna take the first part of your teams. That's right, yeah. All right, so it's your first word. All right, we'll start your clock. Wonderful, thanks everyone for being here. Thank you for arranging the debate and thanks everyone for joining. Also, congratulations to Nuria who's having her first debate here. Very good to see. I wanna address the two Muslim debaters. I wanna quickly say, when it comes to the opening speech of Perfect Dawah, it looks like it had nothing to do with Islam, as it really is. It was his own interpretation of what Islam is supposed to be. And it's ironic because the debate is supposed to be about Quranic values, but he mostly gave examples. After referring to the Quran several times, he gave examples of people in Islamic tradition based on sources that are completely ambiguous. So sources that don't actually represent Muslim ideas and Quranic values at all. If I asked the average Muslim about the things that Perfect Dawah listed, they would have no clue what I'm talking about. When it comes to Rashid's opening statement, I think that that was more close to what Islam actually is. But unfortunately there is a problem here which is the solutions or the ideas that he presents based on which he argues that Quranic values are good are very vague. For example, he speaks of justice of being good and being against corruption and being fair. You can say that no matter what position you are in, that's the nice thing about language and about the subjectivity of morals. The Nazi regime also considered themselves very just and very fair. And they thought they are fighting for justice. They are against corruption, against evil. The Soviet Union had the same thing. It was one of their main propaganda lines actually. So every regime, every evil, every good can have those same statements. What matters is that we look at the actual policies, at the actual thoughts, at the actual ideas and acts to understand what these values actually are. If we look at the Quran, since we're talking about Quranic values, the Quran says in chapter five verse 51 that it's forbidden for Muslims to be friend, Jews and Christians. It says in chapter eight verse 55 that the worst of creatures are those who disbelieve in Allah and the best of creatures are those who believe in Him. It repeats the same notion again in chapter 98 verse six. It says in chapter nine verse 29 very clearly that this is a verse that I think everybody should always remember, that Muslims are supposed to fight those who do not believe in Allah and His messenger and who do not adopt Islam as a religion until they are humiliated and pay jizya, which is protection money for disbelievers in an Islamic state. The Quran says in chapter 60 verse four in a fictional report of Abraham that Abraham said to people hate has a reason between us and the Quran points out that this is the perfect attitude by Muslims. Abraham states that as long as people disbelieve in Allah they will be hate between us and animosity and this is good according to the Quran. So the Quran doesn't teach forgiveness and tolerance and whatever it is by all means. It teaches that there should be hate between those who believe and those who disbelieve aside from also fighting them. When it comes to, there are of course many different values like how the Quran actually treats women. You could talk about, I'm sure Nuri has a lot to say about that but the Quran actually authorizes men to beat their wives. Authorizes men to take captives in war and to have sex with them, to buy and sell them, all kinds of things. When it comes to Muhammad in authentic sources Muhammad said that he was sent to fight the people until they believe in Allah. He promised to expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula. So he definitely didn't have an understanding of a diverse society. He commanded that apostates, people who leave Islam should be executed which is a command that scholars after him unanimously agreed upon and practiced forever. He sent people out to destroy polytheist temples and praised them for following his orders and for destroying a temple called Dhul-Halasa in Yemen and massacring everyone they found there. This actually happened. He said, won't you relieve me from Dhul-Halasa Bukhari 3823. And one of his men went with an army, destroyed the temple, killed everyone around there, came back and Muhammad said, Allah bless you. In the Muslim sources it is a very authentic belief, globally believed that Muslims will fight the Jews before the end of time and kill them wherever they find them. And this is a largely accepted Islamic belief seen among the end-time prophecies. Muslims grow up, I grew up believing that in the future and maybe in the near future a time will come maybe in my lifetime where I will have to fight and kill Jews because that's what the sources tell me that's what Muhammad said. There's so much more. Quran 33 verse 50 says that you can have sex with that you can take captives in war which Muhammad himself permits. We have multiple reports of Muhammad himself buying and selling slaves, including female slaves and so on. Based on many of these outdated and extremely detestable values which we see today practiced in Islamic societies which is why Islamic societies are so backward and very low in terms of human development and peace. I would say Quranic values are definitely not good. Thank you. All right, thank you so much Pasir Prophet. And we will go ahead and kick it over to Nuriya for her opening statement and the floor is all yours, your first word. Hi, it's great to be here. Thanks modern day debates for hosting this and a massive thank you to AP for tag teaming with me. And obviously I'd like to extend a warm welcome to our opponents Rashid and Perfect Dawa. I'd like to start by commending Rashid and Perfect Dawa because they sit here today either really bravely or some would argue completely selfless and willing to commit intellectual suicide by aiming to defend the indefensible that is the Quran. And to defend it in front of the world on YouTube. I mean, this is the very book that inspired the likes of ISIS, Boko Haram and Bin Laden. So kudos to the both of you, I couldn't do it. The question is whether Quranic values are good. I think it's important to start with the basics. So we can all infer that good refers to something intrinsically positive and a value, right? According to the Oxford dictionary, good refers to something that is morally right. So righteousness or a benefit or advantage. When we start to hold the Quran up to scrutiny and up to today's standards, a very dark picture begins to emerge. Yeah, sorry. So much so that the Quran actually doesn't even meet the basic requirements of article one of the United Nations Human Rights Charter. In fact, the Quran is in breach of more than half of the articles. The Quran and Islam are against fundamental laws of our modern world. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights consists of 30 articles and was created in a post-war climate. It's been ratified by most countries as accepted universal law for an individual, regardless of geography, race, ethnicity, nationality, color, sex, age, at any given time. Even thousands of years from now, the fundamental laws could still apply because they are universal and absolute. Yet, Muslim member states of the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, created their own declaration in 1990 called the Cairo Declaration as an Islamic response to the far superior manmade universal laws that we've thankfully adopted. So let's run through a couple and bear in mind the Quran considers itself to be a clear book of guidance. References are Surah Maida, or the chapter of the table by 15 and the chapter of the cow, Surah Bukra, 2-2. So article one of the United Nations Human Rights Charter says all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. Quran 291, slay the unbelievers wherever you find them. Cue the usual Muslim context argument here. Quran 223, your wives are a til fun to you so approach your tilth when or how you will. This basically means men own women. You own your woman like she's a piece of your land or property and you can approach her as if she were a shuttle. This encourages entitlement and marital rape to say the least. Quran 43, marry women of your choice, two, three or four. Men can marry up to four wives, women can only marry one man, absolutely no equality. Quran 424, also forbidden to you are women already married except those captives and slaves whom your right hand possess. This basically permits Muslim men to take captive women as sex slaves. Let that sink in. This is slavery even worse than indentured servitude in the Bible. It's sexual slavery, perpetual rape when and as your Muslim master orders it. We're taught about the horrors of the transatlantic slave trade but what about the Arab slave trade? Have you ever looked into why Zanzibar was a slave trade in hotspot? The Trans-Saharan slave trade was going on from the mid seventh century to the 20th century but we're rarely taught about it. Arab Muslims in North and East Africa sold captured Africans to the Middle East. They worked in fields as teachers or harem guards which is why the castration of male slaves was commonly practiced. This was happening seven centuries before Europeans explored the continent and 10 centuries before West Africans were sold across Atlantic to America. So Quran 4.11, the male shall have equal portion of two females. Again, in inheritance a woman receives only half compared to a man, no equality. Quran 2.282, and call to witness from among your men two witnesses and if two men cannot be found then a man and a woman. In a court, a woman's testimony is half. How can someone be a Muslim and a feminist at the same time? It beggars belief when the Quran is as explicit as this. Your word and worth is literally half of a man. Okay, article two entitles everyone to all rights and freedoms without distinction of any kind. Quran 98.6, verily those who disbelieve from among the people of the scripture, Jews and Christians and polytheists will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst of creatures. Quran 4.101, the disbelievers are an open enemy to you. Discriminatory and hate speech. Article four states no one should be held in slavery or servitude. Slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms. Quran 869, but now enjoy what you took in war, lawful and good. Quran 2432, marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and female slaves. No matter what type of Islam you follow, the Quran is sacrosanct. The Quran claims it's the final and fallible eternal and perfected word of God. It's also important to note Sharia Islamic law is derived from prescriptions found in the Quran. Sharia is the final interpretation, the scholarly consensus, Ijma of the Quran and Sunnah. So when you think of hands and feet being chopped off after the Friday prayer in Saudi, bear in mind where the source of that comes from. I'd like to ask Rashid and Perfect Dawa a few things. Why does the Quran allow child marriage? There's no upper or lower limit set for marriage in the Quran. Secondly, why does the Quran incite murder towards disbelievers? Thirdly, why does it call for barbaric punishments like amputations? Doesn't it show that's nothing more than a man made product of its time? And to everyone who thinks domestic abuse is wrong and a crime. If you read the chapter of women, Surah Nasser, it's simple to see that Quran 434 commands domestic violence. Does this sound divinely inspired to or just perversely man-made? The Quran is an outdated archaic seventh century war manual. It's a reflection of Bedouin society enshrining domestic violence, sex slavery, child marriage, misogyny, consanguinity, unilateral divorce for men, unequal inheritance, predefined gender norms, incitement to murder, hate speech, threats to life, and honor-based violence perpetuated by hijab and subservience with the onus of modesty culture being predominantly on women. So no, I would like to pause it today. Quranic values are not good. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much, Nuriya. And that concludes our opening discussion time. So we will go ahead and kick it into the open discussion now. I'm sorry, opening statements. So we will kick it into the open discussion now. But before we do that, I wanna let you know folks, especially if it's your first time here with us at Modern Day Debate, that we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion, and politics. And we want you to feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from. 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And hit the subscribe button because we have plenty more debates coming your way that you don't wanna miss. And I just wanna let you know about DebateCon 2 coming up on Saturday, November 19th in Plano, Texas. The link in the description below is for the tickets. Those are still on sale. They are as low as 25 bucks. And there's a fundraiser too to help it get off the ground. We are at 27% of our goal and we have 19 days left. So please, if you love debates, if you are a fiend for them like I am, then you might wanna consider supporting that goal. So with that, we will go ahead and kick it into the open discussion. Let me just go ahead and put 45 minutes on the clock. And with that, I did get a chat from Zagros. He wanted to ask that you guys spend some time if you could steel manning each other's positions. So if that is at all possible, if the affirmative wanted to try to do that first, Perfect Dawa and Rashid, if you wanted to try to steel man the negation of the Koran's position. But that's just a suggestion. And at your first word, I will start the clock. Yeah, so do you guys wanna go first or? All right, I don't know. Maybe, Rashid, you want to go first or something? Okay, I just would like to say that, of course, you mentioned a lot of, you know, different verses that take maybe many, many hours that we go through one by one, okay? Like wiping teams and chopping hands and disbelief, okay? Because you take all interpretation of a bunch of backward, you know, extremes and then present it here. And then many, many fabricated Harithas. And this is, I think it's hypocrisy that you do not believe that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, split the moon, okay? And take it as a lie, as I take it also as a lie, okay? But the same source, but the same source say something negative about Islam, you take that one as, you know, source, a true hadith, okay? An authentic hadith. And I say, just a moment please, yeah? Why I say that it is fabricated because I have so many verses in Quran that goes against that, okay? And those fabricated hadiths that you bring also, I compare them with Quran and I see that they go against Quran, for example, killing apostate, okay? So my main source is Quran. When I see that Quran says no compulsion in religion, when I see in a verse Quran says that those who believe and then they commit cof become kafir and then again believe and then again become kafir and there are scholars also who say that how can an apostate be killed if they are, how can they come back if they are already killed, okay? And then Quran says that after they die, a natural death, not even killed, after they die, Allah will punish them hereafter. So Allah even mentioned that those who believe and then became apostate. You're taking the whole time for your long speech here. I just want to respond very briefly to something that you just asked. You said we present these sources about Muhammad and have these bad interpretations of them but we also reject that Muhammad split the moon although that comes from the same source and you ask how that could be? I would say that's actually a very bad application of logic. Let me give you an example. If somebody is known to say these people should be killed, those people should be killed, that guy should be beaten and so on. I will say, well, okay, obviously that person is saying it. If that person is also reported as somehow splitting the moon, I will say, yeah, that's simply not true. I'm sorry, that doesn't work. We have evidence against it. We have no evidence for it and it's just an absurd belief. If somebody comes to me and says, I want to kill you, I will say this guy wants to kill me. If he says, I went and pulled unicorns out of my fridge this morning and then they flew up to the sky, I will say, yeah, that's nonsense. I'm sorry. I cannot compare these two things to each other. One is a claim of something fantastic of some fantasy and another is a clear statement which should be judged based on what it says or does not say. If you now blame me for the fact that so many hadiths say that people should be fought, that apostates should be killed and so on, then I would like to tell you, what is your problem? Please go and talk to Muslims, debate them, not me, because most Muslims believe in these things, you don't. But also, AP, what kind of a, but like Dodge was that perfect, Dawa, I'm sorry. We, I have presented AP has blitted nothing but Quranic verses and your first response was to say, these hadiths you present are fabricated. What have we presented right now that is not from the Quran? Let's just stay focused on the Quran. All right, you presented a lot of hadiths. I don't remember all of them. I didn't present a single hadith. I didn't. No, no, AP. I did, I did. Oh, okay. Yes, AP. But it's weird that you did that. You actually come with that criticism considering that you presented some quotes from Ali and from Hussein, which have no relevance at all to the Quran. Yes, they have, yeah. Yes. I read first Quranic verses that it says that pardon the people, those who wronged you, okay. Pardon them. And then I put from Ali radi Allah and from Hussein. Okay. Then why do you complain that we that represent hadiths, which are, by the way, compared to your, as opposed to your sources, totally widely accepted by Muslims. Why are you complaining about this? I don't understand. This is, they are just because they have accepted. Okay. It has because they're in the past, people couldn't read and write. If I was living myself in the past or even today, if I was living in a village in Afghanistan, okay. I perhaps would also accept them. But today we have the internet I can read. I can reach brother Rashid and we can discuss with each other and I can read myself. So it is not because of Islam. It's because of education that people have. Okay. So let me ask you a question. And they were just a moment and they were just following a bunch of, you know, businessmen called the scholars or Imam, okay. And they were afraid also to go against the mainstream because they were thinking about their job. If I go against the mainstream, I can show you even, you know, this Dr. Tarek. You're on a tangent again. Let me ask you a question to stay on the topic. So Mohammed said in a widely-attested hadith that those who leave Islam should be killed. Do you- No, he didn't say. Okay. You don't accept that. Now, on the other hand, Hussain said allegedly that forgiving is very good, but do you accept that? So- Yeah, I accept that because it goes in line with Koran. I gave you verses of Koran. And that hadith- I'll ask you a question. I'm done. And that hadith, killing apostate, I give you verses from Koran that says those who, you know, believe and then become a coffer. And then again, believe, it shows that, and then the biggest punishment for apostate, Allah says in Koran, brother Rashid, remember perhaps I can bring it up for you, that Allah says that your, you know, good deeds here will be totally lost. That's the biggest threat to apostate from Allah in Koran. Okay. There's no reward. Rashid, do you also believe in this whitewashed, weird version of Islam? Or do you actually believe in the real Islam? I believe in the real Islam, the one that stems from the Quran. Okay. What even was? Okay. So do you believe that, do you believe, for example, that it is just to fight the disbelievers and to humiliate them until they pay the jizya, to execute apostates, to beat wives, to marry children, to have slaves and so on? No. So what do you say about these things that the Quran says? None of those things are in the Quran in my reading, in my understanding of the Quran. Okay. So when we come to Quran, the nine verse 29, which is my favorite Quran verse, it says fight those who don't believe in Allah or the last messenger or who do not accept the religion of truth from those who read the scripture and fight until they are humiliated and pay the jizya. What, why does it tell us, why does it tell Muslims to fight those who don't believe in Islam? Well, if you read the verses- I just have to say, I have to say Brother Rashid has a video on his channel. Please, everybody check it, okay? Very nicely, he's explaining it. Now, listen. Okay, he was going to answer the question. Yes, yes, now listen. Yes, I have explained also that as Muji said on my channel regarding that verse, that the verse is, it's in a conversation that is happening from verse number 29 and continues all the way to 36. So you have to read all those verses in order to understand what is actually happening in that verse. All of it is about the Jewish and Christian people. I think you can agree with that, right? That it's about, it's talking about Jews and Christians. That's the objection, right? Very much, yeah. But the next verse you see, that you see why it also talks about Jews and Christians because they have corrupt beliefs, allegedly. Yes. Now, the reason why I say that is because first of all, the part about fighting them, you're fighting them according to that verse that is given, you cited three different reasons that they don't have iman in God or in the last day. And you're fighting them because they do not implement this thing called din al-hab. And also that they did not make haram what God and his messenger have made haram. Would you agree that those are the reasons that you're fighting with them? Yeah, I think so. Yes. Well, you have to ask yourself then, okay, what about those Christians who do in fact believe in God in the last day? Well, I'm sorry, no, that would be a misrepresentation of what it actually says. The Quran verse says that you should fight those who don't believe in Allah or in the last day who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful. We have already hereby disqualified all Christians and Jews and who do not adopt the religion of truth from among those who were given the scripture. So those who were given the scripture are by Islamic standards, the Christians and Jews. And those who don't accept the religion of truth from among those who read the scripture are Christians and Jews who don't convert to Islam. So this basically tells you to fight the non-Muslims. But would you disagree with me if I said that in the Quran, there are Christians who do believe in God and the last day? There were in the initial time since the Quran is a completely man-made book which changed with the times. Initially the Christians were seen as righteous people but later on it was completely changed into those who don't accept Islam. They are not accepted and they are wrong. So this verse clearly by this verse of standards Christians today, for example, are targeted as those who should be fought. Well, I disagree with that categorization that because you have no basis for it. You can argue for it, you can comment on it but you have no basis for it from the Quran. You can claim or this came later and abrogate that but you have no claim whatsoever from the Quran. All right, all right. Would the Sabians couldn't repass? What, I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. The Sabians or the Sabians as the Quran mentions. Would they be considered believing in Allah in the last day? I would assume so. I mean, I haven't made one myself. All right, so let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, that's why. The Quran does include them among those who have iman in God in the last day in Surat al-Bakr, yes. How about this? Is somebody who is a Christian and who believes in the Trinity in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? Does that Christian, is that Christian spared by this Quran verse? Yes. How? They're spared because they do not fulfill all the different criterias that the verse gives. The verse gives three things that you're not supposed to just fight them for one reason. You're supposed to fight them for those three reasons combined. You don't fight them for just one. If it was just one, it would mention just one but it mentions those three, those three, you can shake your head if you want but you can, the reasons that are given there is first of all they do not have iman in God on the last day. And the other is that they do not forbid what God and His messenger have forbidden. You have to find out what is that that they have made haram which God and His messenger have made halal. You have to find out what that is. That means following haram means you have to follow Korea and be a Muslim. Let me finish. So let's say somebody who doesn't believe in God, who doesn't believe in what Muhammad revealed, who doesn't accept Islam and who doesn't agree with Muhammad's morality. Such a person who basically by that standard doesn't fit any of the criteria in this verse. What is with that person? That person should then be fought. Again, as I was saying before you interrupted me, I was saying that the verse is talking about the thing you have to find out what is it that actually, is it talking about people who drink alcohol even though alcohol has been forbidden? No, that's not what it means but what God and His messenger have forbidden which is why I said before you have to read it through to verse number 36 to actually understand what the verses are talking about. The verse is talking about certain groups and of certain groups among the Christians and the Jews which says inna kathira minal ahbari wal-huban that a majority of the rabbis and the monks and those kinds of people in the elite, the clerics, those elite people that they consume the wealth of people wrongfully, okay? They consume. But they believe in God. It says that a majority of them deal and that's the reason why you are fighting them. But they believe in God. You just told us by reading into the Quran that the people have to fulfill all of the criteria of this verse, which is something that no scholar ever said in order to be fought. But now you're saying that this is only for certain people who do unjust things. But they still believe in God. So they shouldn't be fought because they don't believe in God. Did you hear me say the word believe? Did anybody hear me actually say the word believe? Somebody who is a Christian and who also oppresses people who does all kinds of terrible things but who also professes to be a Christian and to believe in God. Is that person a Christian or not? That person might be a Christian. I didn't say the word believe. By that standard, by that standard, that person is automatically disqualified because he professes to believe in God. I didn't say the word AP, let him talk. Let him talk. I didn't say, well, you're putting words in my mouth. I asked you, did I say the word believe? It doesn't matter if you said the word believe, you just- No, it matters. You just said that one has to qualify for all of the criteria of this verse in order to be fought. Then you gave examples of people who do strange things but those people, if they profess to be Christians and to believe in God, that means you have to accept that they believe in God. So then you cannot fight them by your own standards. You're still not understanding what I said. I said that the Quran commands to fight people who do not have iman in God on the last day. I never said believe because you are confusing iman with me. That's the same thing. No, it's not the same. Yes, it's the same thing. Iman literally is faith, believe it's the same thing. Can you please explain the difference? It's the same thing. The thing is that the Quran specifically talks about this when it says that the Bedouin Arabs say, we believe in God, we have iman in God on the last day. What does Allah say? If you know the verse, what does he say? Yeah, you do not believe or you say you believe but you have no faith. But that doesn't matter at all. But you say that. According, you can use the same word play for many things in the world that does not negate the fact that belief is iman and that believing in God in the Quran is unanimously used for professing to believe. It simply does not make sense. Who are you talking about? Who is supposed to be fought by this Quran verse? The people is, let me explain that. Then I stop and then you can go on. Sure. That's okay. The people that I've spoken about are the people who are in the higher-ups, the clerics, those people who have the ability of making laws. That's why the Quran says, those who forbid what God and his messenger. We regular people don't have the power, they don't have the authority to actually forbid. You and I, we don't have the power to forbid things. It's talking about people who are in the upper-ups, the higher-ups, the clerics. That's why in verse 34, when I mentioned, it says, inna kathira minal ahbare, these are the people who are making the laws, making the dictations about how society is supposed to be run. And these are the people who are being commanded to be fought against. Why? Because, A, they don't have iman in God on the last day. I didn't say belief. They do not forbid what God and his messenger forbidden, which is what they take the wealth of the people and consume it wrongfully. Number three, they do not implement the deen al-haq. Deen is not religion. They do not implement the deen al-haq. Deen comes from, it means judgment. It means a legal system, a legislature that is within a common community. That's why in surah to Yusuf, when you see the word deen being used, it talks about Joseph not being able to take his brother in the deen of the king. That doesn't mean religion. Deen does not mean religion. It has only been applied to that. But what that verse is talking about, is talking about people who, these people who are in the higher-ups who do not implement the laws, the legislation that is actually beneficial to the people. That makes it a falsehood. And so they do not qualify for iman. They might believe, yes, but they don't qualify for iman. So when you see that verse, and also the other part is the jizya. Jizya does not, is not a tax, not Quranically. Jizya is a compensation that is supposed to be paid by both people because they consumed the wealth of the people wrongfully. They have to pay. You ask to finish your speech, but you speak forever. This is an open discussion. You can do that. You can do it in your opening speech. I'm sorry, but when we talk about Quran chapter 9 verse 29, you are completely reading into the verse. The verse itself doesn't say any of these things. It merely says, fight those who don't believe in Allah. In fact, let me do this. Let me share my screen here for a second and show you what the great scholar Ibn Kathir said about this who does not agree with you. He agrees with me. So let's see what Ibn Kathir said. If you can put my screen on the screen here. So he cites, Ibn Kathir is the greatest interpreter of the Quran. He says, fight against those who believe not in Allah or in the last day or forbid that which allies forbidden by Allah and his messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth from among the people of the scripture until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel himself subdued. Now, does it say in the following parts anything about just the rulers? No, he and almost all scholars that I've ever heard of, I've never heard this interpretation that Rashid just presented. He says, when people of the scripture disbelieved in Muhammad, they had no beneficial faith in any messenger. They followed their own religions which conformed with their beliefs, but here is the actual part. It says, fight against those who believe not in Allah. He then explains this as this honorable ayah verse was revealed with the order to fight the people of the book after the pagans were defeated. The people entered Allah's religion in large numbers and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslim's control. Allah commanded his messenger to fight the people of the scriptures, Jews and Christians on the ninth year of the hijra. And he prepared his army to fight the Romans and call people to jihad and so on. This says nowhere. No scholar ever said that this is about fighting certain authorities, certain people. No, you can clearly see it says fight those who don't believe in Allah in the last day in that which Muhammad and his messenger, Allah's messenger are forbidden and who don't accept the religion of truth. This is about those who do not believe in Islam. And this was interpreted this way by every Islamic scholar ever that is actually known and relevant to the dominant religion. Even if we were to follow your logic, right? That it just preferred to like the scholars or the elite class who are the rule makers or the legislators or whatever, because what you're saying is that we've moved away from what Allah and the Sunnah commands which is essentially perfect Sharia, right? So according to your logic then, even that verse today would still apply to like world leaders. Everywhere there's not Sharia, you'd come, you'd try and kill the disbelievers, you'd try and go into the houses of parliament, you'd go to the white house. And second of all, when it's, when even going by your logic then, if it's not just the, if enough people, let's say the Quraish tribe, if enough of them didn't follow what Sharia mandates or what Allah mandates and they were refusing to do it because they're not, they're like, oh, we wanna drink alcohol or we wanna fornicate or whatever Sharia does not let them do. If in people are refusing to follow Sharia, they would be considered disbelievers because they are forbidding the inaction of Sharia through actions. Do you see what I mean? So even though- I understand your argument, but it does not follow the line of reasoning that I presented before. I understand what you're trying to say. I don't know if it's the law makers and people in power and the Quran is an eternal book, right? Timeless. I don't agree with that. Yeah, what about the American government, for example? This, I mean, this book, this verse should then also target the American government and many Western governments and many governments and people in our time as those who should be fought. So what exactly are you trying to communicate here to tell us that Islam is actually good? It doesn't- It will not rest until the flags of Islam are rising high above the power of the Quran. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily say to fight them with the weapons, okay? Yeah, just in the bread machine. Fight them with your mind. As I was saying, look, that I understand your arguments, but they just don't follow the line of reasoning. I asked you before, because before I asked you, I asked AP that there are verses in the Quran where the Quran specifically tells us that there are Christians, Jews and Christians who do have iman in God on the last day and they are considered from among the salihin. And if those people are living under the Islamic system, those people, you don't fight those people. Then who are those people? Who are those people? They don't even qualify for jizyah according to the Quran now. I know what- Who are those people? I know what has happened practically, what people have done throughout Islamic history. They have- Who are those people? I agree with that. Who are those Christians? The Jews and the- Who are those Jews and Christians who are faith and iman? Okay, who are they? That doesn't mean anything. Who are they? The Jews and Christians who do good in the world, who try to work to make the world a better place. What is good? Yeah, define good. Good. You already defined it in your opening statement. Yeah, but your definition because apparently that qualifies them. That's not far from yours. That's not far from yours. It's talking about what is positively beneficial for society which increases the wellbeing of the people. That is what is good. How about a Christian who believes that God is a Godhead, that there is a Trinity, that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Is that Christian a righteous good Christian by the Quran standards? Or is it only Unitarians that are allowed? Please go ahead, answer. I cannot answer. No, please go ahead Rashid, answer the question. Let's Rashid, yeah, brother Rashid. They have committed a fallacy within their belief, but that doesn't mean that they are bad people. That doesn't mean that they don't qualify for righteousness. So that doesn't mean that they are bad or that they're going to hell. That was not my question. Are those Christians considered the righteous Sarlahin who have faith in God, who are excluded from the violence? It can't be true, it can't be true. They can be from among the Sarlahin. They can be from among the Sarlahin. It depends on what they do. Yes, it depends on what they do. The Sarlahin is about action. Okay, it's about action, righteousness. Then why exactly does the verse specifically, after Quran chapter 9, verse 29, in Quran chapter 9, verse 30, it specifically gives as a reasoning to fight the Christians. It says the Christians say the Messiah is the Son of Allah. That is their statement from their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieve. May Allah destroy them. How deluded are they? Which comes exactly after the order to fight them as reasoning to fight them. And the Quran also says in chapter 5, verse 70 to 76, clearly that those who believe that Jesus is God are corrupted and they will go to hell and burn there forever. And for them is no help at all. So you just told us that this only goes for some specific Christians who do terrible things and who are up high and that all those Christians who actually believe in God and have faith are considered good in Islam. But then the Quran clearly tells you. Difference, they can be. I didn't say they can't be. No, they can't be. No, they can't be. No, they can't be. You asked my audience, they can be. They can be righteous. They can be included among those if their works are righteous. Well, you are wrong. I'm sorry. They've committed a blasphemous act. They've committed something that is blasphemous, yes. But one act, one bad act alone does not disqualify all the good that you do. It cannot, one simply you doing one simple act that is bad or them saying that Jesus is God or whatever that doesn't nullify every single good that they do. It just can't. Okay, that's not how the Quran works. Maybe that is how you have interpreted or understood it. But no, they are wrong. It's not me. It's like, it's the majority of Muslim scholars and Muslims who have interpreted it this way. So I have to take something back here. I said at the beginning that Perfect Dawa presented an Islam that doesn't represent Islam as we know it at all. Unfortunately, that's also true for Rashid. He, his version of Islam is something strange as well. Can I say something, please? The author of the book in chapter three verse seven say it is he who has sent down to you O Muhammad the book in it, there are verses that are precise. They are the foundation of the book and others unspecific as for those whose heart is corrupted like you and I see in Taliban. Yeah, let me guess, let me guess, let me guess. All those verses that are Let me explain, let me explain. All those verses that are that agree with you are clear verses and all those verses who disagree with you are Let's let Dawab finish because he didn't start. No, let me, yeah, you have been talking a lot. You have been talking a lot, OK? So as for those whose heart is corrupted like you and ISIS and Taliban gave them all of that. Shut up. I'm not going to listen to this. I'm not going to listen to this. I will not be quiet about this while this guy sits here and equates me in the name of his shameless, disgusting, murderous religion to ISIS and Taliban when he shares their idiotic, absurd beliefs which should only be believed by people with extremely subhuman standards of verifying what is and is not true. Don't sit here and give me that speech, you piece of shit while claiming to be the reasonable one here. OK, don't laugh. You should turn around and criticize and discuss with those Muslims who are in your ranks and to kill people, murder people and to talk about killing people left and right instead of coming here to me and equating me with the terrorists that you share your beliefs with, OK? Because you shut up. Shut the fuck up. I will not listen to such idiotic speech and then be told to be reasonable or whatever it is from your side. Also, guys, can we just clear something up? Ayu, do you have any sympathies for the People's Mujahideen organization? Ah, OK. I was going to bring up, yes. I was going to bring up, yes, just a moment. I was going to bring up that one but you mentioned it right now. So people like you, yeah, people like you who cannot judge something that's happening in 21st century that I am alive, my organization is alive, exists today, OK? And you guys... It's been banned. That's a terrible decision. OK, you see that you are absolutely uneducated in this subject and Prophet Muhammad was living 1,400 years ago. I understand that that's very difficult for you but just one week ago, 261 US congressmen and senators have supported my organization as the legitimate democratic organization for the Iranian fascist regime, OK? And I want to ask you, I have asked AP, yes. And I have asked, wait, wait, just a moment. I have asked, let me, let me, let me. And I have asked AP, OK? I have asked AP that you and your friend Armin, OK? Just you guys, if you prove me that my organization is banned or terrorist or whatever, OK? Then I leave Islam, OK? And I will support you because you guys cannot decide something that is today. That is so weird. You decide to put, to support or not support Islam based on whether your terrorist, your communist group is right or not. I don't care about your communist group. This is not a propaganda channel we're talking about Islamic values here. Yes, exactly. You might support a communist terrorist organization or a peaceful communist organization. I don't care about it at all. That's just your hypocrisy. But if you want to come here and equate us with terrorism, while you share the words of people who advocate for killing people like me, then I will not. Yeah, because, yeah, because, yeah, because you, I asked you before that if an ISIS was going to kill you and I was there, I was trying to say that, no, this is not Islamic. Would you support me? You said that, no, I'm not going to lie because you don't care about that. Yeah, I will repeat that again. I will repeat that again. I will repeat that again. That's actually perfect. That's perfect because I care more about the truth here than about whether I fell well or not. So if we are in a situation where an ISIS guy actually wants to kill me and you say, hey, no, this is not real Islam. I will say, hey, that guy is full of shit. Yeah, because you are living in USA and you know that nothing will happen to you, but the guys who are in Pakistan and Afghanistan, you don't care about them, okay? And I have the fact you have just one thing. Excuse me, what the hell does that mean? What does that mean? The people in Afghanistan and Pakistan believe that I should be killed. The people in Afghanistan and Pakistan believe that last to me should be punishable by death. They believe that women should be beaten. They believe in rape. They believe in all of these things. Is that somehow my fault? No, I don't support it. Yeah, you say you really need support, sir. What the hell are you talking about? Okay, okay, okay, okay, guys. So this has been, okay, hold on, hold on, guys, hold on. Hold on a second, hold on, guys, hold on, hold on. All right, I think this has been a little, it's going a little too crazy now. Do we need to do the one minute or can we just? I think we should, I think I'm done. Yeah, one minute is better. I think I'm done. Yeah, now, I'm going to show things you are not done. We have 12 minutes left. I do want to give Maria and Rashid some time to talk a little bit more. Yeah, how about, let's just, yeah. You cannot run away. Hey, you cannot run away. I'm going to show you how. Hey, hey, talk, talk to your terrorist friends. Don't talk to me, okay? Try to convince your terrorist muslim friends. Don't talk to me. Can we do one minute? Yeah, sure. No, I'm perfect though. I like, I try and sympathize with Muslims or quote unquote Muslims like yourself who come and they read all these fluffy nice verses. What you'll see by and large is they choose verses from the Makkan period of Islam when Muhammad had no power and is so cute and cuddly and he's like, to you, your religion, to me, mine. And then boom, as soon as he gets power and the Medina verses, Medina verses kick in, it's just pure bloodshed and violence. And perfect hour will never ever or Rashid will never accept that it just says verbatim literally what it says. Even though perfect hour says the Quran itself says, some of these verses are completely clear and some are like metaphors or whatever. I'd like to ask perfect hour and Rashid, alif, lam, meem. What does that mean in the Quran? Let's say even if that's a metaphor, what does Yaseen mean? Because from my research, Yaseen refers to sin which is the moon god and it goes all the way back to Babylonia. So why has that entered your Quran? And if so, what your scholars saying besides, oh, Allah knows best. So I mean, if we can't even figure out the basic stuff and you're not going to accept the literal stuff for what it is, perfect hour. I don't, I was just asking whether you sympathize with this organization because but you don't know anything about realization. Okay, okay, okay. Have a completely alternate Islam. Your Islam is nothing like what mainstream Muslims accept. And you keep coming on these channels and you keep propagating your version of Islam which honestly maybe outside the walls of your organization, it does not exist. You don't accept the Hadith. That's why you popped off the AP straight away. I accept. I read for you Hadith, okay? Please don't say. I read for you Hadiths. The one which goes, no, no. The one which goes in line with Quran. The one which goes in line with Quran, I accept it. So why did the bad ones end up there? Why are the bad ones in the same book? Please explain. It's not the same book. It is in the Hadith book, okay? And they decided to- What is the Hadith book? What is the Hadith book? The Hadith book is- The six at least, yeah. The tellings of Prophet Muhammad- Okay, which Hadith book are you talking about? I'm talking about different, all these book Hadiths that I say any Hadiths that goes against- For example- Any Hadiths good. Which one is- Even Guhari, Guhari Muslim, they have a lot of fabricated Hadiths in them. Do they also have good Hadiths which you reference all the time? Yes, I said that. Yeah, I said that. Okay, so your standard is that- Islandar is Quran? Your standard is that if one of those Hadiths in Sahih Bukhari, for example, agrees with your understanding of the Quran, then it is authentic. If it does not agree with your understanding of the Quran, then it is inauthentic. I'm sorry, but I don't have to be a genius to tell you how dumb that is, considering that whether it agrees with the message presented in the Quran or not, cannot be a standard based on which you can verify the authenticity of reports within that book. Because those reports are not written down based on- How does this agree with the Quran? Yeah, not whatever. No, they are written down based on witnesses, based on reports by people who come and deliver something that Muhammad allegedly said and are then verified by multiple people until they arrive at this guy who then writes them down in his book which is called Sahih Al-Bukhari. So you would have to look at the actual sources and the transmitters of these messages, of these hadiths, in order to verify whether they can be true or not. And I'm sorry, but the verses to kill apostates, for example, are very, very much authentic. The ones talking about taking slaves are quite authentic. The ones about child marriage are considered mutawater. They are authentic. They were delivered by multiple people and so on. So your standards are simply biased and corrupt. And very fine. This was written 200 years after the Prophet anyway, but also, as her university has said that even da'if hadiths, the weak ones, have a grading of 35 to like 85% of being accurate. Okay, now, we also have to talk. In that one moment, that person was lying. We don't get any chance to talk, okay? Yes, yes, okay. In Quran, there is a chapter called Mu'naffarun, the Hippocrates, even if it goes back to the very, yes, yes. Even if it goes back to very companion of the Prophet Muhammad, you cannot be 100% sure that Prophet Muhammad said because it could be Hippocrates, okay? So, and Quran, chapter four verse 80 to 83, explained that these Hippocrates, by night, when they went out of Prophet Muhammad's lecture, they said things that Prophet Muhammad didn't say. Quran itself explained that they were making rumors for Prophet Muhammad. And let me tell you, no, no, no, no. I wanna help you. I wanna help you. We are not going to talk. Yeah, we are not going to talk. One moment, one moment. Mu'awiya, Mu'awiya, lied so much about Aliratullah that when Aliratullah was killed in the mosque, people were saying that Aliratullah went to mosque so such a propaganda. This is, by the way, this is Shia propaganda. This is Shia propaganda. This has nothing to do with our conversation. You defend Shia Islam and you are here to defend Shia Islam. No, I'm not. I'm not Shia. This is basically what you're doing. No, I'm not Shia. I say that they were fighting each other. They were making propaganda against each other. They were fabricating information against each other and against Prophet Muhammad as well. So you cannot, yes, you cannot say that. I said that if it goes against Quran, okay? Not just my understanding, okay? So there are lots of people, okay, yes. So you have modded your standards and made them corrupt even more than they actually were by telling us that there were a lot of hypocrites. By the way, the word is hypocrite. Hippocrite. So just so you can... Yeah, Hippocrites is like a Greek philosopher so I was getting right confused. But it's hypocrites. But so you're saying that verifying those hadith is not just based on whether they agree with your Quran or not. They are also disqualified if they don't agree with your Quran because there are some people in the past that were hypocrites. This gets much weirder if you think further about it. You just, you will then just go ahead and say, well, that guy was probably a hypocrite who delivered this hadith because there were hypocrites back in that time and this hadith doesn't agree with the Quran. Isn't that such an arbitrary standard key? And what if we go back and actually look at those people who delivered the hadith? I would like to share this video. It's a very short video, please, just a moment. Just introduce me to the Muslims you are and what you believe in. Yeah, so I am a former Muslim of Turkish origin who was born in Germany into a very religious Muslim family of Turkish origins. My parents were very observant. I, are you gonna watch the video now? What I was doing? Yeah, just make a short video about the religion. Very short, very short. Just make a point, we have five minutes left. Yeah, my point, yeah, my point. Thank you, thank you. It was a great live stream, by the way. Thank you so much. My point, my point was that I unfortunately removed it, yeah. Within one hour, okay, less than one hour, you make this young down that you told him, making that he said Muslims are wild people with wild, you know, culture and you were saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, Apple's AP, that your parents were teaching you such a bad thing, you know, things that you one day will go and kill, you know, all, so let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. Just a moment. Muji, you talk forever, you yell and then you say, give him 30 seconds, give him 30 seconds, give him 30 seconds. Yes, yes, yes. I'm sorry that you were- How many more times? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yes, you, I'm sorry that you were brought up in such a family that they were teaching you that you will go and kill Jews to the last one of them. I was working- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I was- I'm sorry that I was brought up within a family that believes was the vast majority of Muslims believe. Cause, cause, cause, cause. Okay, just give him 30 seconds. Please, 30 seconds, please, 30 seconds. I was brought up in a family that I was, my father was very religious. I was working two years with Jews, okay? And I was invited to them. Not a single time my father was telling that Jews are bad and we are going to kill them, okay? And I have so many verses- For all that talking- You have made that point clear. Okay, isn't the 30 seconds over? So, I'm sorry that you were in such a, you know, family you were raised in such a family. Muji, you have made that point very, you have made that point. You have made that point very clear. Here is the issue. Your Islam represents no Muslim that you will ever encounter outside in the street. Your Islam is restricted to few people, maybe a tiny percentage among Muslims like you. If you have an issue with the way Islam is practiced and vastly believed and presented by the vast majority of Islamic scholars, then go and challenge Islam. Go and challenge your Islamic scholars. Don't go and challenge- I said that you feel- Hey, when you talk- I said the calls. I said the calls. When you talk, when you talk, I don't care. You can talk about that later, okay? I don't give a shit. Please don't interrupt me and then complain about interrupting you. If you have a problem with how Islam is believed and practiced by Islamic scholars, have a debate and fight those people. Don't come here and accuse me or Nuriya, ex-Muslims who have actually experienced Islam like most Muslims experience them because of the way we have experienced Islam. Go have your fight with Islam, not with us. Nobody cares about your Islam. Not even Muslims follow your channel. Muslims laugh about you. They don't care about your message. They don't care about your channel. They don't care about your Islam. This is the real Islam. In the real Islam, you hate, you fight, you are in whatever it is. Okay, now can I talk? I said beginning calls, okay? I said in the chat as well, please organize. I've said it to James many times, please organize a debate between me and Daniel ISIS Jew, okay? And they have banned me all of them, these YouTubers, extremist YouTubers. And then you say all the time, can you call us please to share this screen? You say it is my tiny Islam. Can you please share this video? Did you just call Daniel like he gets your ISIS? Can you please share this? These are, look at this, look at this. These are Islam. These women are leaders, okay? They are going to bring down Iranian regime. They are Muslims, okay? And we are millions. So don't just say I am the only one, okay? And this organization is the most democratic. And we have been fighting for the right of non-Muslims for the right of non-Muslims because we didn't have any problem wearing hijab, okay? You saw that they were hijabi, but the first people who came out against Homeini and said you have no right to force people to hijab was this organization, okay? Let me guess. I am alone. Also that I'm alone. Okay, let me guess. You took the link to that video out of the Quran, right? What? You took the link to that video. Rashid, we'll start the next thing real quick. Yeah, let Rashid also talk. Sorry, perfect. Now I really want to know which Quran you guys are reading and which translation because wow, that is non-existent anywhere else. Yeah, very good question. And for me, I don't say, as to your question, Nuria, I don't read a translation because I understand the words in Arabic. So it's just not Arabic even better than anybody else. What does Daraba mean? Please explain. It means to, I mean, personally for me, I think it does mean to hit. I have never said that it doesn't. Thank you for being honest. I appreciate that. No, I mean, I look at the words. For me, my methodology is quite simple. I look at the words and I look at how they are used within the Quran. I do understand that words do have a certain tendency to mean multiple words. It's also in English. But I look at the words and I look at how the Quran uses those different words. And I look at how a verse, for example, or a certain belief about a certain verse or a certain opinion appears in one verse and another. And I see, for example, does it make sense? For example, I used to believe those things that AP believes about that verse. I did. It is not denying that. I think that most Muslims who become, for example, let's say, if you want to say, go away from the traditional narrative that such people, they start out believing that kind of stuff. But then they evolve over time. I am looking for the truth just as the rest of you. You were so close to being ex-Muslim and then you just got trapped back in. From where? For me, I look at, I want to be as true to the Quran as possible. And for me personally, when I looked at it from that point of view, I had questions. Like for example, when I had that understanding that that verse means kill, sorry, fight the Jews because they don't believe and that same understanding. I asked several questions as to whether they would fit that verse. And when I found out, I started doing a process of elimination. And what that led me to was that it just can't be that interpretation. Though I understand that Ibn Kathir and the Tabari and the Zamachshari and the different kinds of tafasir that out there, they do portray that kind of idea. And for me personally, it's not difficult to understand why. I can understand completely why they did, why they had that belief, why they interpreted those verses like that. It is sort of like, I don't know how do you say those pins that you put and then they hit one another like that? What do you call that? Domino. It's like a domino effect. When one interpreter, great scholar interpreter, for example, comes out with this opinion, the later scholars are obviously going to take from that, from his inspiration. It's understandable. So you find that they were caught the same point. They caught the same exact thing because they didn't want to deviate from the normative. They didn't want to deviate from the accepted version. But Islam has gone through different versions. It's not just one. Islam has gone through different modes, different reformations, different kinds of Islam. The one that we just happened to have today just happens to be the one that basically gained fame. But before that, Islam looked a hell of a lot different than it looks today. So for me, it's not that difficult. So for me, the- I'm going to let Nariah respond to you, Rashid, and then we're going to go ahead and kick it into the Q&A. So go ahead, Nariah. No, I just wanted to say, yeah, you go right, Rashid. Obviously there's so many standard holes. There's holes in the standard narrative anyway. We know that the way that the Quran was compiled and it came about. And I'm just grateful that verses like breastfeeding of an adult and stoning did not end up in the version that we have today, even though we see remnants of it in the hadith. Again, I just think it's very intellectually dishonest if you are taking some hadith as right because they fit into your narrative with the Quran and you discard the rest. If we're being really honest, the entire situation with the hadith is one gigantic telephone game, to be honest. Yes, yeah. So yeah, so the credibility. I mean, it wouldn't even hold up in a court of law today. It's all hearsay, right? The entire thing. So for you to kind of just, it's well and good. Everybody can kind of, I think even between the two of you, Rashid and Perfect Dawa, your Islam's probably don't even match up amongst yourselves. So like AP said, it's kind of pointless sitting here trying to go push back against all of your individual fluffy, cuddly Islam's that you like. Whereas the real Islam is there in the Quran. It's being like, we see it in the world. We see why in Afghanistan, 50 year old men are marrying six year old girls. We see why Boko Haram are taking sex slaves. We see why Isis are enslaving Yazidi women. There is a common denominator and that is Islam. And what's the source of Islam is the Quran itself. So that's yours. That's yours. I want to go ahead and kick into the Q&A now, guys. So let's go ahead and do that now. Let me just check to see. I just fast forward to say something fast. You guys had the opening statements. You guys had the first word, so I'm gonna go ahead and let them have the last word on that one. So let's just go ahead and do that. So let's go ahead and go to the Q&A now. So I'm putting 30 minutes on the clock and I'm gonna ask the first question. This is a super chat from Zagros Oskand for 999. He asked, oh, we already did this one. He asked for you guys to do the steelman at the beginning of the open discussion. Didn't work out so good. And he did follow up with that later. They said, this is what happens without steelmans. Big mess, I said that for $1.99 later. So I will not say that later. So okay, next question from Thunderstorm for 499. They say, the stone at the Mecca is from the temple of Artemis and the moon symbol is her symbol. Aphrodite had a stone as well. I believe that is for the affirmative side. I mean, my response to that is that the Quran doesn't mention anything about his stone or a black stone being. I think that's what it's a reference to. I personally, my personal opinion on the idea of the black stone actually believe it is either of two things. One is that it might be a meteorite that I think that it was a meteorite and back then probably people would think that that is sort of like a stone from the heavens and from the gods and that kind of thing. And so they took it and started venerating it for some reason. I think that that's most likely the case. I don't think that there's any special attachment to the stone. I think it's just a stone. There's nothing special about it. The hadiths about the prophet kissing it or touching it. I don't believe that he did that. But if he did that, then I would say I would find that a bit questionable myself. So if Mohammed did that then you find it questionable? I would find it questionable. Yes, yes. But I don't know, right? It's very hidden, like, why are you worshipping a stone and kissing it? No, because I would then want to know why would he do that? Because it doesn't make sense. Why did he say that? That's why he's incorporating his old beliefs into the new suppository. We didn't say that we believe in that. Why not include it in his book then? If it's so special, why not include it in his book? I don't believe in it. It's literally physically attached to the house of... It's part of the ritual of Hajj. If you went to Hajj, would you not circumambulate the Kaaba and then proceed to kiss the stone and break your sins? No, I'm not going to kiss it. I'm not going to kiss the stone. Well, you guys are just not representative of Muslims. So you didn't accept that a possibly pagan or futile object is attached for veneration to the center of worship in Islam, to the Kaaba, that black stone and... No, I mean, I think that... Let me try to explain that because the Kaaba has been destroyed and rebuilt and destroyed and rebuilt. At one time it was completely eradicated after the Prophet had died, completely torn to the ground. So the idea... I think that this idea behind a black stone or something like that, I think that it was something that possibly came in after the Prophet that it was something that belonged to a different kind of tradition because there were multiple Kaabas around. So it wasn't just the Kaaba. So I think that maybe that came in later, but of course I have no absolute evidence for that someone can disagree with that if you want, but that's just my theory is that it came in at a later point because I think that if it had such a significance as it has today, like we think that has such a significance. If it did, for me, I don't find it possible that the Prophet would attach such significance and still not mention anything about it in the Quran, for me personally. It is like one of the Caliphs says, oh, if it wasn't for Muhammad circumambulating or doing this, kissing the stone, we wouldn't have done it. So in that... It's Omar Hadith. Omar says in a very widely attested Hadith which is considered extremely authentic by Islamic standards, by the way, that he went to it and he said, if I didn't see the... If I had not seen the Prophet kiss you, I would not kiss you because you kissed the stone. Yeah, they say even... Sorry, perfect, though. I just want to say I'm really glad none of you will kiss the stone or go near it because it was even taken by, what's his name? Abu Tahir al-Jalabi or something, it was looted and he used to actually desecrate on it. He would pee on it and stuff. So good going, guys. Yeah, I just would like to say add something that they even said that the true verses of Quran is missing because it was eaten by a goat. So I don't believe in everything they say, okay? Just because they said, I don't believe in that, all right? Yes, next question. So let's go to the next question. Jack Mason sent a 99 Euro, I believe. I want to double check that in a second. But he also sent, there was no message attached to that one, but then he also sent a 599 Super Jack and I guess that is euros, I was correct. So the Quran could be misunderstood from people that live in the village in Afghanistan and do not have education. That means that its core values are bad. Well, once again, please. I didn't understand, once again. So the Quran could be misunderstood from the people that live in a village in Afghanistan and do not have education. That means that its core values are bad. All right, first I have to say that, first I have to say Nudia mentioned something and I repeat again that you mentioned old guy in Afghanistan, Mary, a child. I mentioned as well, I have said it many times that if I was living there in that village, brought up there, probably I would do the same. If I was born in a drug cartel family in Colombia, I would probably have tattoo everywhere, guns and go and kill people. So it depends on where you are brought up and what kind of education you have gotten, okay? And yes, many books can be misunderstood, okay? And I understand that the meaning of creation wasn't like this, that everything is perfect. Yes, you can say that why God, the people, there are 80s who say that why God doesn't send a prophet today, okay? And you can ask this question, this is how God has created his creation and this is how he decided to guide us, all right? And he knows, he knew that one day we all be righteous and we will live in a beautiful world, okay? He know that, he know that we grow, he know that we develop, okay? So that's why you cannot just sit here now and say why it wasn't, this is our situation. What is it? The message is important, the message is beautiful and I read for you many of these verses, okay? Which one you reject? I don't want to repeat again, which of these messages, okay, I want to say fast, okay? Those messages that you misunderstand, Nuria, don't follow them, for answers don't follow them. In chapter three verse seven that I was going to read, okay, you didn't allow me, Quran says, those whose heart is corrupted, they follow just the unspecific verses, they don't follow the precise verses, please follow the precise verses, okay? What's the point of them, the point? The point is that if you don't understand, if the verse goes against the precise verses which has been mentioned 113 times in Quran, the most merciful and forgiving God, when you see that it doesn't match those precise verses then don't follow it because I understand those verses that they are not what you think, okay? I can't explain for you. Hear what you're saying, that you're hearing a logic. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time, I'm sorry. Yes, okay, yeah, I cannot believe what I'm hearing. Yes, okay. We want me to read for you chapter three verse seven. Should we let Rashid, Eva, she has to answer that real quick. Yes, I mean, I personally, actually heard the question as if it was rhetorical. So isn't anybody who heard it as if it was rhetorical just me? Because the question was that it was framed as if it is rhetorical to me, that people who are in the village in Afghanistan don't understand the Quran. And all of a sudden that means that it is bad. I mean, I understood as if it was more like a jab at Nuri's point rather than ours. But I doubt it, I think it was pretty much a statement pointing at the fact that Quran is such a mess and it's at its core, rotten, yeah. Even though it says it's a clear book of guidance in itself, but as perfect, I will say it doesn't matter because somewhere else it says it's not a clear book. We'll go with one of the ones I like. The ones that I like are clear, yeah. Exactly, the ones that I like are clear. Yeah, in chapter three verse seven, it's mentioning it clearly, okay? If you don't understand it, that's your problem. Yeah, it's always awful. It's always awful. It's not a problem because Allah can choose to guide who he will and misguide who he will. So it's Allah's will, it's not really our choice. Let's be honest. Yeah. All right, let's let the affirmative side have the last word on that just because it was for them, I think. But please no five-minute speech on this one again. Every question? Hold on a second. All right, from Samir Farzain for $2, they say, do constitutions fight tax inventors? So does 929, chapter nine verse 29. I'm sorry, I don't understand. Do constitutions fight tax evaders? So does chapter nine verse 29. Do... Is that supposed to be a defense of the Quran? I think it's 929. Yes, it is a defense of the Quran. Samir is definitely... Oh my God, I'm sorry. The US Constitution, for example, or any constitution in our time does not say fight those who don't believe in our ideology, in our religion, humiliate them, and so on. And then give us reason that they simply don't believe in what we believe in. This is what the Quran does. However, the Quran says very explicitly, if you want me to read it, I can read it again. It says very clearly, fight those who do not believe in Allah and His messenger, who do not accept, or who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His messenger have made unlawful, who do not accept the religion of truth, Islam, from those who were given the scripture, fight until they give the jizya. And jizya is not just taxes. Jizya is not a tax. It's not something that everybody simply pays to the government. It is something that is specifically imposed upon disbelievers, upon non-Muslims within an Islamic society. And the amount of it, by the way, is unspecified. So Muslims can have their own charity and their own taxes, but the jizya is a specific amount of protection money which is imposed upon non-Muslims in exchange for their lives and their well-being. If they don't pay, then they are fair game and don't have to be protected and can be killed. That's the Islamic system. So that's not taxed. And you can obligate them as well, exactly. All right, and I can say fast that the brother Rashid goes live every Friday as well. And I go every Saturday. Those who have questions, more questions, and he has a video on his channel. He can share with you about chapter 9, 29, explaining very well. And he explained right now that it is not belief. It is those who have faith. OK, and we don't want to go in it again. OK, so please. And I would like to add on that the jizya know it's not a tax. I agree with you, Epe, on that. But I also don't believe that it is sort of like a levied payment that is placed on people for protection. I don't think that that is the case. I think that jizya is a compensation, comes from the word jaza, which means compensation or payment or repayment for reparation. These are payments of reparations that are supposed to be made by those people who are taking the money from the people and consuming it wrongfully. What? Reparation. Reparation. In the world. Where is the world? The negative side have the last word. Not being Muslim. That's what it's about. 90 seconds. Just let the negative side have the last word so that they can answer for them. The negative side. Nuria, do you want to go ahead? Yeah, no, I mean, this is the first time I've ever heard that they're not spending money according to the state's wishes. And therefore, it's a reparation. I mean, really, yeah. Well, what we said in a good way. So what are they doing wrong? No, I said that it's referring to the people who I mentioned in verse number 34, who are consuming the wealth of the people wrongfully. And those people, because they have consumed this wealth, once you have fought them and you have gained power of them, they have to pay reparations for that money that they took. That is the jizya. And they have to pay it according while they are sargerun. The word sargerun means to be made small. We, all of us, every single person is sargerun. I'm sorry. That is simply absurd. Chapter nine, verse 29 says, fight those who don't believe and humiliate them until they pay the jizya. Jizya was unanimously accepted as protection money imposed upon non-Muslims. The Muslim states, as historically reported, imposed it as such. The Muslim caliphates after Muhammad until the Ottoman Empire imposed jizya as protection money in exchange for their lives upon the disbelief. This is a historically known fact. We have so many... I'm humbled in the same... Yes, yes. And when it comes to the context that Rashid here is talking about, in chapter nine, verse 34, talks about those monks or priests who take the money of people unjustly is merely mentioned as a detail within the broader context of why Christians and Jews are bad. If you want to go that way, you could just go with the next verse here, given as a reason to fight the Jews and Christians. It says, the Jews say, Ezra is the son of Allah, which is, by the way, a completely ignorant statement. And the Christians say, the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their statement from their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieve before them. May Allah destroy them. That whole thing about taking the money of people unjustly comes many verses later within the context of criticizing and bashing the Jews and Christians who should be fought. Okay, we need to move on now. Okay, we need to move on to the next one. Ladies and gentlemen, we do have more questions on the list than we have minutes left in the Q&A. So that last super chat from Paul Singh is the last super chat that I will guarantee that we will read, but I will try to push our gracious interlocutors to answer all the ones that you guys send, but just giving you guys a fair warning right now. So with that, here comes the next one from Zagros Ozkin for 199. They say, that's what happened. Oh yeah, we already read that one from Zagros Ozkin for 499. They say, Muji himself is, well, I'm not gonna read that. They are alluding that you have, are a member of MEK and that they are not a good organization. Joseph Smith level stuff. All right, okay, let me fast respond to that. Let me fast respond to that. I'm not a member, I'm a supporter, okay? And only just a few months ago, 15 Nobel Prize winners support. There you go again. 15, I can't read you. Yes, you see today, yeah, okay. Yes, yes, you cannot hear the truth about the organization that exists today. Dude, nobody cares about your organization. Can you please stop propagating this nonsense so that people don't talk about it anymore? Oh my God. Can you please stop them? I have been accused and I have to answer, okay? Thousands of people- Because you talk about it all the time. They don't allow, they don't allow you talk, okay? If they have the power, they shut you off, okay? So I say that we have thousands of European parliamentarian and American senators and congressmen who support us. And I said, last week, 261 support us. So don't come with this bullshit, okay? Don't come with this bullshit that I am, my organization is this and that, okay? Trump, Trump vice president, Trump's foreign minister, okay? They have been supporting my organization. So if you want, if you want, you can have a debate with me on your channel, Nuriya, okay, AP Runaway, okay? And bring your facts that my organization is what you say, okay? Bring a senior, a senior, okay? Shall we do that? All right, let's move on. From Paul Singh for $5. They say, AP and Nuriya got them. Christians are to be fought based on their beliefs. You got fans out there, AP and Nuriya. Thank you. From, oh, messed up. From hate's stares for $5. They say to perfect, I believe perfect dialogue. Genuine question, why do you support fascistic values? What? Why do you support fascistic values? Well, like what? Like what? Like Islam, for example. Okay, that's, I'm the biggest enemy of that fascist Islam, like Iranian fascist regime. I have fought it 43 years. My organization as well. We fought for non-Muslims, okay? And we could have everything we wanted. We had no issue about the job, but we fought, I guess, we have lost over 100,000 of our members. My brother had been executed as well for these values. And I have been, on my channel, everybody know that I am banned by this extremist Muslim and fighting that fascist Islam that you are talking about, okay? Yes. I sympathize with your feelings, but it just keeps reminding me of that one question. Then why in the world are you here arguing with us instead of going and talking to Muslims? I have said that they have blocked me. I'm doing that. I'm trying. I have asked, did I ask your cause that organized a debate with Daniel Isis, Joe, with me? Did I ask you from the beginning? Yes. They ran away. But Perfect Dawat, that shows you that they don't find your version of Islam credible. They don't consider that Islam. No, they are running away. You should just leave Islam because Muslims obviously don't like your version of Islam. Perfect Dawat did ask me to try to set that up, and I will try to set that up. So if you do see my link in the description below, look for that on my channel at some time in the future, maybe with another Islam, member of Islam, maybe. But let's move on to the next question, shall we? From Coffee Mom for $4.99. They say to Perfect Dawat and Rashid, if modern society didn't condemn slavery and terrorism, would you then acknowledge that the Quran says what it says? I don't believe that the Quran actually supports slavery. There are several verses within the Quran which do talk about the emancipation of slavery, of slaves. I also have a video on this on my channel. So if someone wants to watch it, I won't go into so much details about that, but the Quran has categorically disallowed slavery. It has spoken. Can you give me a source for that, please? Thank you. Well, Allah swt, when he's talking in the story of Moses, Moses accuses Firaoun about the idea of enslavement. And in that rhetoric, in chapter 26 of the Quran, I believe it is, in that conversation between Firaoun and Moses, Moses asks Firaoun that, what is the name of the person who is against him and who is against him? He accuses him that this is the favor that you pretend to have done for me when you have enslaved the children of Israel. That this idea of enslavement, that is the whole story of the story. The story, where is there a clear prescription like the people who are just trying to find out where to see, through something true and false? That does not say it's slavery. Let's move on because that was a question for David. Let's just go ahead and move on. Yeah, chapter 26 verse 22, chapter 7 verse 127, okay? These are two of them and there are more, okay? That Quran condemns slavery and is biggest crime of fraud. One of the biggest crime of fraud is in enslaving people. That's a lie. That's complete nonsense. That's a lie. We are giving you the chapter. You are giving the chapter, okay? Yeah, if it was our turn to talk, I would love to give you a chapter in which the Quran says that slaves and free men are not equal, which the Quran clearly itself says. But you're talking about something in which a conversation between Moses in his time and the Pharaoh happens in which the complaint is that the Pharaoh is enslaving God's people. It's not about slavery being bad. It's about enslaving God's people. I can say, hey, don't kill my men. That doesn't mean killing is bad. I'm just saying it is bad for you to kill my men. Do you understand the logic? It never says the slavery is bad. Rashid, even for you, I really want to ask you, what about, how do you feel about what the Arabs did to the Africans? Was that not what they did before? Yeah, let me actually, let me, yes, let me answer. And I did watch your video on slavery. I loved it very much. Thank you. It was very informative and I can tell you that I do agree with about 98% of whatever you talked about, except for the part about the Quran, allowing it. But I do agree that, yes, this thing about slavery that unfortunately it's one of the greatest failure of Islamic history. It is a thing that I don't believe at all that the prophet actually advocated for it. If I wanted as a person to actually advocate for slavery, I would not include so many verses in my book, in my biography, which I believe the Quran is, which talk about freeing of slaves, freeing of captives. Why would I do that? I wouldn't... I'm not afraid of two black slaves for one Arab slave, it's in the hadith. Yeah, but that's the hadith. That's the thing, okay, that's the hadith. But when we're talking about the Quran, if there was, if slavery was such a big thing, why is there there is not a single verse in the Quran which talks about buying or selling slaves? By the way, the question was completely different, by the way, wasn't the question a different question? The question was about slavery and terrorism, but let's go ahead and move on. From Paul Singh. Yeah, but the question was, okay, whatever. Yeah, I'm sorry. Explain how fake hadiths ended up in authentic hadith books that are supposed to be the sayings of God's final prophet and the one true religion. That's a very, actually simple answer to give because hadiths are not written on the background that they are the word of the prophet, no scholar. Okay, I guarantee you, no scholar in their rightful mind would say that these are the exact words of the prophet. No scholar would say that. You cannot bring a single hadith which you can take to a top scholar who would tell you that this is the actual word of the prophet, why? Because all hadith scholarship tells you the first thing you learn within hadith studies is how these are one. They are thoughts, they are, if you can like, they're sort of like thought out, thought processes. It's not true, it's not, it's not, it's not half. It's not truth, actual truth. They can tell you that this is what we supposed that the prophet might have said. That's the highest they would ever go. No scholar would ever tell you that these are the exact word of the prophet. So to understand how the hadith came into, Paul's hadiths came into this hadith literature. It's because of tradition, ego, and also different practice and desires of people. That's how hadiths come in, but Quran could not be changed to that level. So it has to go through the hadith because the Quran couldn't be changed to that level. So you have to, if you want to change about Islam, you have to go through the hadith route. You couldn't do it through the Quran. Can I just say, respond also? I'm sorry to rush you guys, it's just that we have so many questions. Yeah, very fast, very fast. You guys have time. Yeah, very fast, very fast. Okay, please make yourself quick. So yeah, some people wanted to put their wishes in Quran, but they couldn't like stoning adulterers and suckling an adult, yeah. That's why they made up hadiths for that, okay? And they said even the verse came down, but why it is not in Quran because it was eaten by goats. So that's why there were people who tried to corrupt Quran but they couldn't. So they added their desires in hadith, okay? That's my response, all right? So you're saying God made that goat eat it because it would be corrupted otherwise. All right, let's move on. All right, from church apologetics class for $5, they say, why does the Quran say that semen come from the breastbone of women? Even in Qadir? Is that, no, I don't think that the Quran, I know they claim that the Quran says that semen comes from the backbone between the backbone and the rib. No, it does not. That you have to look at actually the Arab, this is easier to explain to someone who understands Arabic. The thing about is that when you see, when it says that it emits, yakhru jumin bayin sulbi, that that idea from between, actually the Arabic just says it comes out between the sulb and the taraib. This is a euphemism for sexual intercourse. It's not talking about, I don't want to go into details but it's a euphemism about sexual intercourse. The Quran tends to be very subtle when it talks about sex. So that is also another euphemism about that. It's not talking about the origin of semen because why else did people castrate? People already knew where semen comes from. That's why they castrated by removing the, excuse me, the testicles, because they knew. Of course they knew where semen comes from. There's no point in the Quran coming in and telling people that comes between the backbone and the ribs. Where have you ever seen someone being castrated through the backbone and the rib? They knew. All right. From Church Apologics class for $5, they say I'm going to write the Quran the eighth time since the seventh wasn't enough for Muslims to understand. Peace be upon me. All right. From Paul Singh for $5, they say the fact that we are disagreeing on the meaning of verses in the Quran means the Quran is not clear and concise as it proclaims. Thank you. Okay. Let me respond to that. And I have said that I gave you the chapter three, verse seven that explain itself. Why it is not clear some verses? I said it before that this is how God has decided. I can say that there is a planet that angels living there and everything is perfect, but there are billions of other creatures and planets that things are different. He decided to create us in this way. He could send us now the biggest miracle and the latest version of Quran or his message, but he has decided to do so. And he knew that because he wanted us to develop. I see the beauty of the creation in this way. Maybe someone else doesn't see it and want everything perfect right now. Everything should be perfect. That's, you don't understand the beauty of creation that he created us and he wanted us to develop. Thank you. Okay. From Pancake of Destiny, they sent a super message, member message. So thank you for that. Then from Fresh Stream, California, I'm sorry. From Fresh Stream, they sent 699 Canadian for Perfect Dawa and Rashid. They said, can you think of any individual organization or country in this world that should be targeted and fought according to Islam? Like you mean that, I don't understand what he meant organization. Is there any organization, person or country that should be fought according to Islam? The oppressors, Quran says many times in... Who are the oppressors today? Yes. For example, Iranian fascist regime is oppressor and we are going to fight them, okay? And we have been fighting them 43 years and we are going to bring them down very soon, hopefully. I agree. All right. So these are oppressor. Now, Russians are oppressor have attacked, you know, Ukraine and Ukrainian people have the right to fight them back, okay? So this is the answer, yes. Okay. From Samir Farzain for $5, they say, what is the punishment of military deserters? I'm sorry. What is the punishment for military deserters in most countries? They're sort of apostate prophets as well. How come you don't condemn that apostate prophet? So the equation that is being made here is apostasy is punishable by death according to Islamic law, according to Mohammed and I criticized that, but deserting the army is also punished by death in most countries. So why don't I have a problem with that? Which is just extremely ludicrous thing to say for somebody who says that. I agree. A religion is not an army. A religion is not a military force. It's not something that you are there to fight. It is something that you are brought up with in most cases to believe that it is true and that you must hold on to it in order to go to the good place in the afterlife or if you don't believe in it, you go to hellfire and being punished for refusing to believe in that or being punished for failing to believe in that, being punished for losing your faith and being put to death for that simply unthinkably insane. That's not comparable to what you are talking about. Although I don't agree with that either. I disagree with that. Yes, I just want to say, I disagree as a Muslim with that statement, that question, okay? This is absolutely different. It's not military. Of course you do, because Islam is a political ideology. It really goes with one. From Aziris schizophrenia for 2390 MYR. They say, negative in a relationship, do you believe there is a leader and there is a follower or do you believe both sides can be equal? I believe that's for the affirmative. I believe that is the affirmative. I didn't understand the question. Okay. Yeah, I think that when it comes down to it, really you can have certain cases in the relationships where one person might take charge over certain things or might be responsible over certain things and another one might take charge over certain things and then the other one follows. If you can have sort of like that hierarchy, but hierarchy spread out into different responsibilities. I think that you can have that. I don't know if you can have a happy relationship where that one person controls completely, every single thing. I don't think that you can have a happy relationship in that case. I think that it's going to be inevitable for someone to take the reins in some things and another to take the reins in other things. But in the end, it sort of like balances itself out even through that. That's how I see it. Okay. And from church apologetics class for $2, they say, why won't a perfect Dawa or Rashid debate Christian Prince? Okay, can I answer? Yeah, Christian Prince. Yeah, let me respond. I went to talk to Christian Prince and this, another one, what is her name was I forgot. Both of them were such a discussing people and they were just attacking you, humiliating you. I was talking to Christian Prince kind of half an hour. He was such a, even my brother in Christianity who is admin on my channel, he also said that he was absolutely terrible and he shouldn't treat you like that. I went like a human being talking to him. He just was humiliating. He was attacking me, okay? So I cannot talk to such a people who are so aggressive. I was even asking him that your religion teach you to love people, even your enemy. What is this kind of treatment? He was saying that, oh, he became Muslim. I said that, yeah, here in this verse of Quran says that Allah has put the hate in me. So I realized that I cannot talk to such a people, okay? That's why I'm not going to talk. Okay, I can debate him on such a platform but not on his platform. And from Pancake of Destiny, member for three months they say to apostate prophet, respect your courage to leave this cult. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And from Sugar Goat for $10. They say, if Islam is not true, then why did Andrew Tate become Islam? Yeah, oh, by the way, shout out to Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate recently officially converted to Islam and much of his reasoning is that Christians don't follow Christianity properly anymore and they're weaklings and they're not tough enough and Islam is a- It wasn't a strict, tough and misogynistic- Which is very- Which is very- Which is very fine. Did you ever see Andrew Tate as a good Christian? No. Now he turns to Islam. It is now for his reasoning. He also says that Islam is a strong religion which doesn't tolerate things left and right and that is good. And it also treats women like dirt and that's why he loves Islam, of course. So there goes Andrew Tate. He's an obedient wife and also his band come like every social media platform. So remember now that he's a Muslim, he's got the power of the Ummah and if people try and ban him, he can cry Islamophobia. So, you know, he needs the following. He needs the Muslim, a Dawa boy kind of hype. It's perfect for him. I think this is a match made in heaven. I said it before, I completely, I wanted him to convert to Islam. So I'm very pleasantly surprised by this. I think he fits in perfectly his personality into Islam. From Karma's Reel for $5. They say team negative. What's your foundation for objective moral right wrong values? If the Quran has bad values, what are your grounds for judging morality? Yeah, I don't mind. So for me, morality is not something that's like static. Like it's a lot more dynamic. And we just, like as humanity, as we evolve and progress as a society, the same way that cultures evolve, our morality will have to bend itself to fit the current like worldview that society holds, which is the whole reason for a debate like this is that the Quran itself has basically made us stop in time and be 100 years ago because those were the morals of back then and they're codified in this book. And we're expected to just say, oh, this is objective morality. I just think religion should not hijack and have a monopoly on what morals or morality is, sorry. So yeah, I think we are actually moral, despite religion to be honest, despite the Judeo-Christian values, just despite Islam, we have gotten to a better place thanks to the enlightenment and secularism and this push for this, always in the face of religious backlash, trying to keep us backwards. So yeah, in the same way that today, the LGBTQIA plus community is enjoying rights that they didn't have 20, 30 years ago, the same way that more like humans progress. And that's the same thing. In the same way we see the law develop in general countries as well. We see like case law and precedent develop based on what the needs of the hour are for society. Yeah, I can say I agree largely with much of what Nuri said. I would just say that I don't think morality is, I don't think there are objective moral values. I don't think that morality is something that can be, or that even requires to be seen as an objective truth. I think morality is entirely human construct developed out of the necessity of living together within societies by humans. And I also think what I focus on there is that people strive to be well. People strive for well-being, to live in well-being and to then look for what is best for that end and what is not good for that end. And based on exactly that desire, they come to different moral understandings even though they may create different moral theories with that. And based on those I would say Islam is definitely not good for human well-being. Okay, from Zagros Askan for 199 they say Rashid, how could Islam fix humanity? Explain the steps. Yes, Islam can help. I wouldn't say Islam, I'd say the Quran. So I would change the question there a little bit. I said Quran not Islam. Yes, the Quran can help because though, as I said in my opening that though, we can arrive at these good values for our well-being without the Quran, I do believe that 100% and I agree with Nudia that morality is not static. But I do take that just because we can, it doesn't mean that there can't be something that we can lean back on. Something like for example, you have like a constitution though we know that we're not supposed to do these things but it's good to have those things in the background like to have them on paper or to have them codified some way. So the Quran is sort of like that. And I think that the Quran does not contradict anything that can allow for example, us to reach well-being. So anything that can make us feel well or achieve well-being within society, the Quran will not contradict that. Whether it is done, whether well-being is achieved through Quran or whether it is achieved through other values, I think that the objective is the same. The Quran seeks to build well-being, that's its purpose, that's its point. And so that anyway, I hope that I do not go all around but I think that the Quran is just a codifier. It's just codifying what's already there. These values we could have reached them without the Quran. The Quran was- Yeah, I agree with that. That's a thing that the Quran is just codifying them for us. We could have arrived at these values without the Quran. I agree with that. I think that it's good to have a codifier, something that- It's to be real, the Quran is the cancer that needs to be cut. It's not just the, that's the root of the problem, what it codifies anyway. No problem. The last two questions before I gave the warning are here. Pancake of Destiny for six euros, they say, why did Allah order to fight people of the book in Surah nine, verse 29? I already explained that. Yeah, we have experienced this. I don't want to repeat it again because of time. I think maybe if there's another question, I would rather take that. Great. From Paul Sink for $5, they say, can you explain how slavery right hand possessed women and child brides are good? Bafiq Dawah, you want to take this or should I? Okay. You can take this slavery and about. Yeah, you can talk about it. No one wants this slavery. No, no, no, I can't say, yes, I can say, but- The slavery, we have already talked about it. The slavery, we have already talked about it. There is no child, child bride in Islam, in Quran. Yes, please. In the Quran, the Quran does not talk about this idea of child brides. Yes, it does not mention it's a particular age, but it calls for Russian, that there has to be sort of like this mental maturity, sort of like what is required in Surat An-Nisa. So that is sort of like a requirement, which is also required when you are dealing out money, for example, for the inheritance in Surat An-Nisa. As for the slavery, I've already talked about that, that the Quran does not call for slavery. And I asked a question before to both our opponents today, that if slavery was such a huge thing as you guys are blowing it out to be, why is it that there's not a single verse in the Quran which talks about buying and selling slaves? That doesn't have to be a verse in the Quran which talks about buying and selling. No, there hasn't. If you want to ask a question and get a response, please let me respond to it. If the Quran doesn't have to give clear instructions on how to buy and sell slaves, it is sufficient. If the Quran, for example, talks about women that you may have besides your wives, besides your marionable wives that you have captured or that are held by your right hand, which is something that refers to captives of war. And the Quran also says, as I mentioned before, Allah gives a parable and it says that a free man and a slave are not equal. And Allah has given some better benefits or blessings than others. Yeah, you look kind of confused. So let me pull up the verse. But you can respond to it. I think Rashid, I know you're trying to trap us here, but it seems like a bit of a cop out because the Quran doesn't have loads. I mean, we could argue everything then. The Quran has basically no verses for women's rights. So why should I think that Islam has women's rights, right? But throughout Muhammad's lifetime, I'm sorry, you have to be frickin' blind to not understand in his lived example how he was dealing, trading and raping slave women constantly. I mean, the Quran... And it's coming from your heritage to be trying to defend slavery and say that it really makes me like... I didn't defend it. I didn't defend it, Nuria. No, but you're trying to say that. Let me say something. It's not a big deal. Let me also not mention Nuria. Even if he traded one slave, and we know this from the Hadith, if you want to ignore it, he traded two... He thought two black slaves were worth one Arab slave. Even his... You go to Hadith. He never says a non-Arab and the Arabs are here. Let me say... This is about Quran, Nuria. This is about Quran. You are mentioning something from the side of it. And I thought I don't agree with that. No, let me say. Let me say. You're relying on the lack of slavery in the Quran to overlook the slavery in Islam. That's what I'm saying. Guys, if we're going to keep on talking, how about I come up with another question? Yeah, one... Can I have more questions? Can I give the verse quickly to respond to Rashid? Let me say. She said Nuria said that there is no... talking about women's rights in Quran. Chapter 49 verse 13 says, O mankind, indeed we have created you from male and female and made you people and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is knowing all the ver... That's the right. That's the right. That's the right. Yeah, the right is that. Wait, wait. The right is that you are best in the sight of Allah of about any... That's the right, my friend. So if we now give you a response with the verse, which says that men are in charge of women and that women should be obedient, you will then say, oh, that's an unclear Quran verse and people like you follow unclear Quran verses. That's taken a lot of time. I want to hear the verse. Yes, that's taken a lot of time. Give us the last A-B. What? The first... Quran chapter 16 verse 75 says, Allah presents an example, a slave owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom we have provided from us good provision. So he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise be to Allah, but most of them do not know. So it describes a slave and a free man as unequal beings and says, look, can they be equal? No. So like this, Allah also gives provisions to some of you and not to others of you. So it's explained as a very casual thing within the Quran as opposed to the Quran ever saying that slavery is bad. Does it ever say that slavery is bad? Does it ever talk about it as a normal thing and justified? Yes, it does. No. I can give you a verse, for example, which views it as a bad thing. You will talk about the whole Moses and Pharaoh thing, which we have established just now. No, I have about 10 verses that have to do with... Okay, show me that idea. But is that good enough for you? Oh, okay. No, tell me, what's the verse? Let's just move on then. Let's just move on. I mean, please give me the verse. Guys, perfect dialogue is doing an after show. So I mean, you guys could take it there. We do want to... I mean, I don't know if you guys have anything you want to do. If you want to keep it going, I don't care, but I do have more questions I want to ask though. Yeah, okay. If we want to stay here. They're super chats for money. From Arden Rami for two euros. They say, in which context is it okay to strike your wife? Okay. Yes, we have different maybe opinion, okay? According to some scholars and some interpretation and my interpretation, it does say that leave her, okay? There is no strike. And the next verse clearly explained that if you fear that they separate because he has left her, okay? Then send somebody from her family and his family to bring them back together, not from the same room because if that's the case... Where does it say that? Where does it say that? That's the next verse says that chapter 435. 435, after 434, okay? First it says that, look, it is logic that in the past people were, women were just slaves, okay? They didn't have any rights and I could beat my wife to death. And even they do today, I have in three months in lockdown in Mexico, 1,000 women were killed in domestic violence. So in that time was even worse. Japanese men, they had the right to be hit, their wives if they were, you know, disliked them. So Allah doesn't send the final messenger of God. I'm beating my wife and then the messenger of God comes with the final message saying, oh my servants beat your wife, okay? I'm doing that. I don't need you to instruct me. So Allah came and as a husband, I know that the second step that which says that separate your bed, you know, ease the situation because I know myself that day after I come down and I start... Oh my God, please. Okay, no, wait, wait, I'm explaining. Yes, I'm explaining that. Please put a thought about me three times. Yes, I think we should move on to the next question. Okay, I can give you, I can give you verses that. Okay, all right, so we can do it next on my channel after one, okay? Yes, please. From Samir said to another $10 Super Chat and said, Islam ordered them to pay the jizya because they don't pay zakat, Abu Bakr. If any Muslim refuses to pay me a rope they use to pay to Prophet Muhammad I'll fight him for it. So you can see the fairness. Well, that story is regarding some 10 people, some 10 people who had sort of done this thing called the reader was as they are known as in the history books that they had left Islam and they had refused to give zakat and that hadith is sort of said in that context. That's actually the perfect example. That these Muslims had refused to pay the zakat and as a result, so Abu Bakr was you right? I don't think so, but that in his decision he decided to go to war with them because he considered it as going against the state. So he viewed it as such. So that's why for example, Omar objected to it and said, hey, would you really fight these people even if they already say, they pray and so in his mind he justified it that way. I'm not sure if the story is true or not, but that's what is in the hadith literature. Also Rashid, sorry, just a quick question. In the Quran, it says that the first portion of the zakat should go to the poor people, the miskeen and the new converts, like all the reverts as Islam likes to say to Islam. Do you not think that's a little bit like of a bribing tactic that anyone who converts to Islam, if you're poor especially, like you're gonna get this much of the money first? Like what's up with that? Well, I mean, I think that all the different categories that are given there are also the categories that are given in other places. But for example, that verse, Inna mustadaqatulil fukarai wal masakina wal muallafatikul, the thing that you're talking about that and also inclining others to the path of God, or to inclining the path, you know, inclining to others. So people have understood that as these people who are going out and spreading the message, that they can live off that money. Like Muhammad Ali Dawa, living off that power. So that because it's sort of like, for example, when you have an old Christianity and this is not a sort of like, you know, what aboutism or whatever? But it's sort of like that, just to understand it, like for example, you used to have missionaries who would go out, Christian missionaries would go out and they would be sponsored and supported by the actually the cleric or the group of the organization that they were from. The organization would collect this money and of course those missionaries because that was their job, that was what they were doing. They were going out spreading the message. So they would live off that support. So I think that that is what is being talked about in that particular part of the process. Awesome, thank you. Okay, and from Zagros Ozkan for 199, they say, let's talk about Banu Qurazia. I'll put it on the screen there for you guys. Banu Qurazia was a Jewish tribe that like every single tribe in Medina, Muhammad's city, which he took over was massacred and eradicated based upon the suggestion that they committed treason, little correction. The other Jewish tribes were not all massacred. Some of them were expelled. So yeah. Okay, no, it's a, okay, there was a question. Okay, just AP explain. Brother Rashid, would you like to address it or shall I do that? No, you can take it. All right, yes, yes. That's already when the story is talking about different situation, different numbers, okay? Is, you know, suspicious, okay? And if, first of all, they say that Prophet Muhammad gave the, you know, the decision, the judgment on, I guess, one of them, you know, the Jews themselves, okay? Despite Prophet Muhammad, first of all, Allah says that to his own prophet that do not judge people because the best judge is Allah, okay? And Quran talk about how to treat the prisoners of war. They were prisoners of war. So he did that. First of all, he was, Prophet Muhammad was the best judge there, okay? And he didn't judge them himself and he gave it to somebody else. Itself is totally, for me, it's a, you know, lie, a big lie. And if it really happened, which we were talking about in Rashid as well, then Prophet Muhammad went against Quran because Quran clearly says, and I have, if you Google the laws of war in Islam, it tells you clearly that you have no right to kill the prisoners of war, okay? So they were prisoners of war, okay? That's, that's- Is it better than the Mandela rules? I doubt it's better than the Mandela prison rules. Have you heard of the Mandela rules for prisoners of war? The Mandela rules, I don't know what is that. The Mandela rules. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. So from Zagros Ozkan for 199, they say, why couldn't Muhammad's wives remarry? I think, should I take this one or do you want- Yes, yes, brother, sure, sure. I think, I believe that that has something to do with the time, with the time, or also it can have something to do with the idea of marrying a leader's wife. For example, that was something that was frowned upon at the time, and also when you read through the different traditions, you can see that. But also this idea, for example, when you have like a king's wife, you don't typically have that wife being married off after the king dies. Like it's sort of, I mean, I think it follows in that sort of, in that idea. Like for example, it was considered sort of like of a low character, for example, someone to take on so far. It's the sake of respect to the prophet. Yes, the prophet did or we were supposed to give the prophet a certain respect that we don't give others. For example, we hold the prophet of a higher standard. That's true. And because of this respect and reverence we have for the prophet, we don't, or his wife's way, forbidden to marry. But the traditional understanding of that was because there were certain groups from the monothequeen who were saying to the prophet, or who were saying to the wives of the prophet that you just wait when Muhammad dies, we are going to marry you. Like when you look at the Tafasil, that's the reason they give, that these men were saying to the prophet's wives that you just wait when Muhammad dies, we are going to marry you and we're going to do whatever we want with you. So basically that's so the Qur'an sort of like... Right, the Qur'an didn't even respect the prophet's daughter. I'm sorry. The rightly guided Caliph didn't even respect the prophet's daughter. Well, I mean, I'm not sure about that. This is such a weird excuse to say that that it was there to protect his wives, but the protection here is to forbid his wives from marrying after him. I say that the reason that is, I say that the reason, it's not my reason, I say I gave you two reasons. I say the reason that is given within the tradition is this and I gave you my own to start with, but the reason that is given in the tradition is that there were certain men within society who were... Okay, we heard that, but it's just absurd, it's just absurd. Yeah, you can take that a few. Especially when they can't respect his daughter enough, but they can not marry his wives out of respect. Okay, sorry. No, no, you're fine. Okay, last question from Zagros Oskar for 499, they say we have moral intuitions because selective pressures were such that mutations that yielded the neural proclivities for moral intuitions were selected. Nice, okay. Okay, I don't disagree with that. Yeah, no, okay. Well, awesome. Thank you guys all for this spirited conversation and discussion. So with that, let's go ahead and close out. Just wanna thank you all so much for this discussion. You guys are the lifeblood of the show. I wanna thank James for creating this platform and hosting these debates. Love these debates so much. This is my favorite thing. I wanna let everybody know about, one more time, the debate con two coming up on November 19th, Saturday, November 19th in Plano, Texas. Get the tickets while they're still hot. Link is in the description below as well as the fundraiser. We are still trying to get that fully funded. So please help out, James, so we can get that off the ground. Plenty of debates coming your way. And just wanna also say thank you to the moderators in the chat. Anybody for helping to elevate the conversation. And thank you to everybody who sent in superchats and questions. Once again, Perfect Dawa is doing a after show. I believe he invited everybody here to that. So I don't know if anybody's gonna be showing up to that. If I do go, I will take any of the questions that weren't asked from the Q&A with me. So maybe I'll get to ask those. And then also... I go live every Saturday, brother Rashid mostly goes live on his channel Fridays as well. If anybody has more questions, yes, you are welcome to discuss. Can I say something? Awesome. Sure. I would say thanks everybody first off for agreeing to this. I wanna point out that this was Nuri's first debate ever, I think, right? And it was great, fantastic, good job. And I would suggest everyone to go and subscribe to her channel, which is Holy Humanist, especially those who follow my stuff. Since I have been very inactive lately, so you can follow somebody who is more active instead. Thank you so much, AP. This was so much fun as well, tag teaming with you. Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you. And Rashid Perfect Dawa, you guys were great, although very intellectually dishonest, but great. Yeah, I think Rashid was very good, but I will never have a debate again with Perfect Dawa. Yeah, no problem. If you guys would take a second real quick to say last word, go ahead. Yes, I would like to say that thank you very much for having me on, this is my second time appearing on Modern Day Debate. So I'm very happy that I was allowed to come here and talk to you and the wonderful individuals. AP, great staff as always. You are a challenge, I have to say. But I do like the fact that as the debate was going on, that it went a little bit south, right there when you were screaming at each other, but me and Nuria enjoyed that, I think so. But I have to say that I prefer to stick to the Quran. So not that I deny the Hadiths, I don't deny the Hadiths at all. But I prefer to stick to the Quran because it is the Prophet's thoughts, it is the Prophet's behavior. You can't get any better than that. And so that's why for me, I decide, for example, to stick to the Quran. You might see that as intellectually dishonest, that's fine. I would say the same thing about you guys, unfortunately, but that's the way it is in arguments. Yes, as brother Muji said, I do live shows where I go through the Quran on Fridays. So anybody who has any questions about some of the things that we discussed today, they are very much welcome. There's so many things that I wanted to bring, especially this issue with the slavery. I wish I could get in touch with AP or Nuria, one of you to discuss more about this because it looks like we didn't cover that part as well as we wanted to. But I wish that you guys have time, for example, to have a discussion with me on this. Inshallah. Inshallah. Inshallah. I would like to also thank you, thank Modern Day Debate for hosting this debate. And I would like to say to Nuria, that the judge people before, when you talk to them, the accuser should be also, the accused one should be also involved. And you have question not saying that, oh, you are under investigation and we are not going to talk. I never said that. I just didn't tell the people. Yeah, how he said that. And I don't have time to investigate you. I mean, so I just believe you. Okay, okay, let's not start a new conversation. Okay, so anyway, yes. We're going to wrap it up. I hope that we can talk more in the future. All right, thank you. Okay, sure. All right, yeah. And one more thing I just wanted to say that I'm also going to have an after show on my channel, after Perfect Dawah's after show. So if you guys wanted to join me on that, that'll be great. I'll have the questions that were not asked as well. And there'll be an open mic. So if anybody wanted to jump in there and have a say something about the debate, then that'll be great too. So with that, just want to say, like it if you loved it, share if you want to spread it and subscribe. We have many more debates coming your way. Speakers are linked in the description below. So check them out. If you liked what you heard tonight, Apostate Prophet Nuriah, Rashid and Perfect Dawah all linked in the description below. Please check them out. Thank you everyone. Have a great night and remember, please keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. Have a great night. Good night. Thank you. Good night. Stay away from Islam. I go live now. I go live.