 Hey, what's up guys, Drew here at thatanxietyguide.com. I am talking to, like I'm so excited. My friends, Sarah, all the way from the UK, and Sarah and I have known each other for quite a long time. So those of you who follow my channel, my videos have seen me work with Billy. I know Sarah just as long as I know Billy. So Sarah, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure. It's so fun, right? So I'm happy to be here. I know, so happy to be catching up with you. Like Sarah and I haven't spoken in a while, but yeah, it's really great. You're always in my heart, Drew. What's that? You're always in my heart. Oh, jeez, thank you. Wow. Always thinking about you. So Sarah, good to see you get into the Facebook group. That was awesome. Not too long ago, you joined up with the rest of the crowd. So that was cool to see you there. And someone had asked about, there was a threat about health anxiety, and there's just so much health anxiety stuff. And I have very little experience with that. But Sarah, you were nice enough to answer and say that you had gotten past it. So I thought we could take 20, 30 minutes and just talk about that. So yeah, that would be great. So give me the rundown. Tell me about what has health anxiety been for you for so many years? How bad was it? I'm going to say probably bad, right? OK, yeah. It eventually led me to actually have a full clinical breakdown. The health anxiety drove you down. Yeah, that was the only point through my, I mean, because obviously I've had mental health problems for 21 years. And at no point with any of the other things I've had, have I actually experienced a full-on breakdown. And I can't, I mean, even now, when I look back to how I was then, I can't even, I don't even recognize that person. Honestly, I don't recognize that person at all. It's just like someone, it was someone different. It was someone like, I was literally, it's taken over, controlling me in every sense. Now, what was the driver? I mean, were you in that state where you were, and then I knew you back then. I mean, we were kind of communicating back in like 2008, 2009, that whole period. And I mean, were you driven by that constant scanning of how do I feel? How do I feel what's wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? Yeah, yeah, do you know what? What I've learned with like over the years of having any kind of anxiety problem, what your brain does, it literally hones in to what you fear the most. So for example, there was a period of time when I feared having heart problems. And I can guarantee every day I'd wake up and I'd have chest pain, I'd have jaw pain, I'd have arm pain. Every single day I'd wake up and that would be the symptoms I was getting. I had a fear of getting, I don't know, like a stomach cancer or something like that. And I would, every day from that point, I'd be waking up and stomach pains feeling sick. Do you know what I mean? And without fail, I'd be having, and then I'd have some other pain, or like a pain in my back, and it'd be like, oh my God, kidneys. And you can guarantee after that, I'd have kidney pain for about the next three or four months. And it's just, yeah. And those things felt extremely real to you, I'm guessing. Oh God, yeah! I kind of remember back in the, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at, to be honest with you, we've been chatting for a little while before I started recording and just catching up. Like you seem like a different person than you were. I remember you were just constantly, and it was that thing of like, well, I'm not, this is never gonna get better. I remember you being so adamant and saying, this is my life, it's never ever gonna get better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And as it turns out, that wasn't really the case. No, no, I mean, I do still struggle with that. I mean, it's literally, it's taken like, I've read so many books, you know, I've done so much research. And it really just, I mean, and I don't want to trivialize it because, you know, I've lived it for so many years, and it, excuse me, it really just comes down to your thoughts. Thoughts cause anxiety. Anxiety causes adrenaline to be released, which causes physiological and physical symptoms. And therefore, and then once they start happening, then you think, oh my God, what's this? What's this? What's this? What's this? You know, it's a vicious cycle of like, thoughts, feelings, adrenaline. You know, it's just. So you weren't really stuck in just generic, like I have panic attacks. It was that and specific, like I'm having a heart attack, or now I have stomach problems, I have kidney problems. You kind of went from obsession to obsession. I had everything. I had leukemia. I had, I had every, so I had brain scans. I've had so much, you know, you name it, I've had it. And I'll tell you in a second about, you know, when the breakdown happened. I've had like every illness I've thought I've had, I've had like the tests to go along with that. And, but the thing is when I actually had a real, like issue last year with my blood and they mentioned lymphoma as a possible. And I had to go and see a hematologist at that point, obviously, cause I'm now recovered from health anxiety. They mentioned lymphoma didn't even, you know, there was no, like, oh my God, they've just said lymphoma. And then I'm scanning for, you know, am I looking pale? Am I tired? Am I this? Am I that? You know, Googling the symptoms of lymphoma and seeing which ones I had. There was nothing like that. I was like, okay, whatever will see what happens when I see the hematologist in a couple of weeks. So, you know, it is going from how I was to, you know, you know, now, you know, there is, you know, you can recover without a doubt. Well, there had to be, so you hear a word like lymphoma, which is certainly scary for everybody to hear. Like, do you find that you were still, like, how did you handle, because I know there are gonna people who are watching that do have legitimate health problems. It's not just how things like people do get ill or have conditions too. So when you hear that, like, were you worried? Were you scared? Were you like, like a person normally would be? It just didn't. No, no, no. If someone had said that to me when I was deep in the health anxiety, Right, right. Which I would have gone nuts. I can't even explain it other than Google, Google, Google, Google, incessant Google constant obsessive Googling. That is what I'd have done. Yeah. When they told me that the doctors that, you know, my blood results were this, this, this, it could be A, B or C. I just went. Well, because reality is, we'll find out in a couple of weeks, that's true, nothing you can do. Nothing you can do anything about it, apart from make you worse, so. That is astounding to hear you say. Yeah, honestly, and now, like I said, I've got other health problems and they've told me, you know, something's a bit dodgy. Yeah. Okay. You'll deal with it. I can't do anything about it, yeah. I mean, I've got different pains now because I'm having, and I'm like, whatever, I can't, I'm not worrying about it. There's too much other stuff to worry about than that, you know, it will, it's, you know, but the thing is, the difference is, when you actually have a genuine health problem, you handle it differently to when you perceive you have a problem. Right. Because the psychosomatic symptoms are as real as real symptoms. Surely. But because you're thinking and thinking and thinking about the psychosomatic symptoms, they are just worse, and they are worse than I could potentially say, they're worse than, you know, real symptoms. I've heard that saying. Because you make them much bigger. Yes, I've heard that saying. Yes. What they actually are, you blow them, because you're overthinking it completely, you just make it bigger and bigger and bigger until everything's involved, you know? Yes, yeah. I've heard it described as like making a movie. So like, you know, sometimes there are forest fires and they are bad, but in a movie, when they make a movie about a forest fire, when you can imagine any forest fire, it's huge, it's so much worse, yeah. It's taking out, it's taking out entire cities, which is basically what it does. Which doesn't really happen, but if you let your imagination go, you can make them. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I think the big, so let me ask another question then. When you're in the thick of that, so you were worried about specific ailments, of course, and I'm guessing in that constantly scanning, how do I feel thing? Were you, so you were incessantly googling and searching, which you said, and a lot of people struggle with that. Like they must Google, they have a hard time not Googling. What about checking? Like we have people who are constantly compelled to check their blood pressure on their heart rate or their blood sugar. Did you do those things? Well, okay, when I had my breakdown, shall I tell you how that started? Good, good. Can I say, tell me, you talk about whatever you want to talk about. Okay, so, 2011, I had a lot of stress. I was having problems with my boyfriend, but cat had just been put down. I had a really bad chest infection. And I went to, and I had money problems. So there was a lot of stress going on with my life. And then I had the flu jab, which was perfectly normal for me. Flu jab, I get, I have asthma, so I'm giving the flu jab. Anyway, for some reason, I went home and I Googled the flu jab. And it said, in rare cases, it can cause something called Gilean Bari syndrome or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it, yeah, I had that. So it can cause that. Within three seconds, my brain had taken that, right? It was in my brain. I was like, oh my God. So then I googled in that illness. And I was like, oh my God, it causes paralysis. It causes this, you know, locked in, you know, can't do it. So a few weeks later, I was like starting to get weird things happening, right? With, you know, I was feeling a bit of weakness. And then that progressed into MS. So, yeah, I had got MS, right? So, and that wasn't good enough because that wasn't good enough. I was Googling more and I was like getting all these other symptoms. I was like, I could hear myself slurring and I could like, I could see, I could actually see atrophy happening in my hands. I've got really skinny hands, look. But in my head, I could see my hands were acting. And then I couldn't swallow properly, I was choking. And then I couldn't get up the stairs properly. And really weird things anyway. So then it just manifested into Lou Gehrig's disease, possibly the worst motor neurone disease you could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at that point, I had got Lou Gehrig's disease. I was going to the doctors four, five times a day with my new symptoms. And I've spent literally 24 hours. Okay, this is really bad. I either spent 24 hours Googling. And when you said about the checking, I wasn't just checking, I was doing neurological tests on myself all day, constantly. I was holding things up with my fingers to make sure I wasn't losing my strength. I was standing on my tiptoes, I was walking on my heels. I was doing like this all day long, like to see my, and I was like doing checks with, yeah, yeah, that. And I was doing this and I was like, moving my jaw from side to side. I was doing tongue checks to see if I hadn't got like ALS coming in my mouth. And that was like that for eight weeks, constantly checking. And I was even getting my son at that point who was 13 to do the checks alongside with me. And I was like, Samuel, Samuel, get books, get books. And I'd get like the biggest book he'd got. And I'd like hold it in my hands to see in the string. And if I dropped it, I'd then be like, oh my God, I just dropped it. That must be, and then that would even be worse because then I could see myself that, my strength was going. And I'd do like, there's a test that they do at the bottom of your foot to make your feet curl, your toes curl. Hoffman's is it? I know this, Hoffman's is one of them. Hoffman's is fine with something. Anyway, and like, all your reflexes. So I was getting- Run, run, run your feet up to your legs. That one. Yeah, yeah, all that crap. Anyway, so that was all that. And in the end, I was like going so mental, the doctor was like looking at me. Every time I would went, it's like, Sarah, you've just got to stop it. You've got to stop this. You're going to make yourself really ill. So in the end, I was like, I had a nerve conduction test where they stuck needles, to make sure where the, if your nerves working. Anyway, I was getting all my symptoms in this arm, my right arm. And I had this nerve conduction test. And he only did like needles in my left side, in my shoulder. So anyway, bear in mind, I am absolutely 10 out of 10 crazy, not crazy, but you know- I understand, I'm sassy. I don't want to make people angry by using the term crazy, but I'm using it for myself. Yeah, I was completely insane at this point. Anyway, the hospital was about 25 minutes, half an hour away. I got halfway home. And I was like, I said to my mum, he didn't do it right. He didn't do the test right. He didn't do my bad arm. He didn't do my bad arm. So I made my mum turn around, go all the way back. I literally stormed, okay, cause I'm like having a breakdown at this point. I've stormed into the consulting room where he was seeing somebody else. He's already doing like seeing another patient. And I've got, you didn't do the skin test right. Like this. Okay. Because I am that worried because, you know, this is how bad the health anxiety is. I was that convinced. I'd got ALS. Yeah. And he hadn't done the bad arm, the defective arm. Right. So he was like, nice me. So yeah, I was going to die. I was going to die. And I'd literally planned my funeral. I had planned how I was going to have my bed downstairs. Well, you know, I planned all that. Yeah. Anyway, so I walked in, I swore at him and I was escorted out. Wow. I was escorted out of the hospital. Okay. Well, I... She can't go in and shout at people. It's just... Right. You kind of can't do that. I get it, yeah. But anyway. So that, okay. And that kind of kept going. It seemed like it more... I'm mortified thinking about it now. I could see it on your face. I could see it on your face. Like, how could I have been that way? Well, I was, because I was having a breakdown and literally I'd sit at home. And if I wasn't Googling, this is really bad. I'd sit in the bath as far away from the laptop as I could be, can't have a laptop in the bath. And I'd sit in the bath from... Soon as Saturday went to school, nine o'clock in the morning to when he'd come home at three o'clock in the afternoon because I didn't want to be anywhere near my electronics and I would sit there and I would self-medicate with Brandy. Yeah. I don't drink. I don't drink. I literally drank for that eight weeks. Yeah. I'm drinking or I'm gonna go... I'm gonna kill myself. It was that bath. It was either, you know, I was so far in it. So, but you would literally fill the tub with water and sit in the tub. Literally! Because you could not, you could not hold something that was plugged in. Yeah. All day. All day. So let me ask you a question. Let's follow that through. Is that... So that stopped you from being able to check and Google and Google and Google. Yeah. And all these physical checks that were driving in. Do you know what? I just have to say quickly, one night, right? It was a half-heart-celebrant night and I stuck my tongue out and my tongue looked wonky. It didn't look like it was pointing straight, right? Okay. I found out my mum and I was like, oh my God, oh my God, my tongue's not straight. My tongue's not straight and I'm obviously convinced I've got Lou Gehry's disease. And I said my tongue's not straight. She's like had to drive from her house which is like 15 minutes away, half-heart-celebrant night to come and check my tongue. To see through my tongue. And that wasn't the only time she'd done that. She did that for something else, but like another one of the tests that I'd done that I was seeing was wrong. But she came out about two times, I think, really late at night to check my symptoms. And honestly, I was seeing my tongue was not straight. Yeah. But that's not even a sign of ALS. No, but it didn't matter though because you're not thinking rationally in any way. Obviously, you can look back now and say it was completely and utterly irrational. But at the time, it seemed very real, I'm sure. Oh my God, yeah, that was it. The tongue thing was the last, it was a nail in the coffin for me. That was it. I was gonna, I was an absolute gonna. I think like so many people that are gonna watch this and you've seen some of the comments in the group and in the discussion that goes on, I think. Yeah. Does anybody worry about this? Does anybody worry about that? I don't know if I've heard of a story and I kinda thank you enough for being so honest and open about this where I don't know, like you're addressing just about every checking and reassurance-seeking behavior that I've ever heard. So you went down all that road. So, but now you're sitting here and you actually have dealt with some real actual health issues and you could not look more relaxed and like not worried about it. So how did you get, the million dollar question, how did you get from in the bathtub sequestered from your electronic drinking brandy to here? Okay, so I had the nerve conduction test and I went back to the doctors, they called me in and at this point, the doctor was having to be chaperoned because I was so crazy. They didn't know what my behavior was gonna be like. So there was always someone in there for the doctor's safety, which was... I understand, I get it, yeah. Anyway, so they got the results of the test, this nerve conduction test and they said, there was absolutely nothing wrong with your muscles. There's no sign of anything, okay? There's no sign of any kind of muscle wasting or whatever the big long words they use, degeneration, I think it is of muscles or something like that. There's nothing, so all you have is, and they did say, I've got a problem with my spine. Yeah, it's just like the spine is just slightly crushing on one another. No big deal. Right, right. Ridiculopathy is called in my C6 and C7 part of my spine. Anyway, it just caused pain. So there's like, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. They said, right, and they sat down, they were so angry with me, they were so really like, they said, right, you've got a scot coming to the doctors four times a day. You can't do that anymore. If you do, we're gonna have to get you sectioned because you're gonna end up killing yourself. Right, okay. And they were the exact words and they said, you either go or you at least try some medication or we will have to section you. Okay. They were my options. Death, sectioned or medication. You had no choice. Yeah. And I forgot another sign, the symptom that I was getting because I'll get on to it in a second. I had constantly had this internal vibration. My whole body was buzzing internally, 24 hours a day. Like I was holding onto a pneumatic drill. My whole body was vibrating constantly from the minute I went to bed, second woke up. It was constantly just vibrating. Anyway, so I took the pills. I was like, well, they're all gonna go to mental home because no. Yeah. Yeah, and okay. And I was like, I don't really wanna die. If I haven't got Lou Gehrig's disease, I don't really wanna die. So I'm gonna have to try this. Yeah. I mean, for me, it was like the only way to get, I'm not saying people can't do it without medication because I've had periods of being off medication and I didn't go back. So I know without medication, it has gone. But you've got to that point where there was really no choice. No, I have not. The doctors gave you no choice. Yeah, they gave you no choice. No choice whatsoever, because quite frankly, having four appointments a day, I was just, and they had to see me because they knew the state I was in. So people were being pushed out because I was so bad. Right, understood. So I took the pill and I was still getting this vibration thing. Yeah. And I was like, hmm, hmm. Perhaps I do have Lou Gehrig's disease like this and it broke back in. Didn't matter that they told me I hadn't. I was like, well, I still got this really weird buzzing feeling throughout my body. But eventually within, I reckon, I don't know, two, three weeks. It started to go away. It went away. So what, if you don't mind me asking, what medication did they give you? Because people will ask this. Do you remember? Was it anti-depressant? Yes, Citalopram, S-Citalopram, Ciprolates. Right, okay. Yeah, yeah. It was anti-depressant. It was only like five mil, five mil. It was, you know, smallest dose. But I mean, I think at that point, when you're actually having a breakdown and you're rocking and you're literally scratching your skin off because you don't know what else to do, you know, I literally, I sat there in the corner of my sofa downstairs, scratching my skin off and people just, like my sister came back and she sat there sobbing because she didn't know what to do. Because my whole body was just sores and scratches and like pulling my hair out. I was so bad. And it was just awful. Yeah, it sounds like a horrific experience and I'm so happy that you're not in that place anymore. So you're confronted with this choice, like you're going down a very dog path that we have to section you, which you don't want to do, which in the US, just to explain that that would be admission to a psychiatric hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't want to go down that road. So you start taking this anti-depressant and within a few weeks, I'm guessing you begin to change. Yes. Depression lifted for style. Right, so your depression lifts and it does do that. It certainly does do that. And so that obsession, anti-depressants often used for obsessive compulsive disorder. And so your obsessive thoughts begin. But the key was your thoughts begin to change because of... Oh, God, yeah, yeah, I wasn't... And suddenly... I wasn't focused on it. Yeah, I wasn't, it wasn't in my head 24 hours a day because I know all through like, since I like had a health anxiety, it was always there in the background, regardless of what I was doing. It's like, oh, what's that? What's that twinge? Yeah. And then it would manifest from there. It'd be anything. It'd be like, oh, I've got... Oh, you know, of course... Could be anything. Yeah. My glands feel a bit weird. You know, and it'd be like anything. And it would... Yeah, but those, you know, get a twinge and you know, I didn't think anything of it. That was it. You know, I didn't think of it. Whatever. Do nothing. Do nothing. So, okay, so let's... They give you this anti-depressant and did you continue to take it? So you said you stopped taking it and the health anxiety did not come back. Sorry, no. It's okay. Yeah, I took it for... From 2012 to... 2017, five years I took it. Okay. Yeah, and that wasn't even... It wasn't even a thing. You know, it wasn't even in my head at all at any point of that, through any of it. And then I stopped taking it because I didn't need it. You know, and I was having an operation and I just didn't feel that I needed it. So I came up with it just before the operation and, you know... No problem. No, and I was... Because we're having an operation also it's a bit like, mm. There was no like, I didn't even... There was no worry there either. Well, I think, you know, what starts to happen is, you know, once you're free of that obsessional thinking, now you get to a place where you can rationally look back at yourself and say, that was wrong. And... Hang on a minute. I don't... Wrong. Well... It implied that, you know, it did... Yeah, I wouldn't say wrong. Incorrect or inaccurate. Yeah. Yeah, not wrong. And you're right. That's not the good, not the good. Yeah, because your brain is so, like, anxious. Yeah. Constantly. Yeah. And it's just, you're just consumed. That's the only way you can describe it. You're just consumed with all these negative thoughts that just manifest and it literally starts off with a thought. That's it. That's all it is, it's a thought. And thoughts are harmless. That's true. Well, now you can say that. So now you're in a place where, you know, without the antidepressant, you can dismiss that thought and like, well, it's just a thought, it's harmless, or you might not even have the thought now, it sounds like. No, no, it doesn't happen anymore, no. Yeah, yeah. So I think the takeaway here is, like, that is about the most extreme case of health, obsession and anxiety that I've run across. There may be worse. But here you are, like, upright and smiling and relaxed and talking about it. Like, it's just like, we were, like, it's a different person. Like, it's happened to somebody else, you know? And I think, you know, once you were freed from that cycle of obsession, it sounds like you were able to not go back into it. It just doesn't, yeah. Yeah, no, it's not even on my radar. Yeah. Even not being on medication. It's not, it's not, yeah, it's just not there. Yeah. So like, you know, regardless, maybe you had to take extreme measures, but you, so here was like this crippling life, altering, crushing obsession and health anxiety that is now not a thing. Yeah. So for anybody who's watching, who is wanting to Google or check their blood pressure and that sort of stuff, like, you know, even somebody who was much worse off than maybe you, and I think Sarah, you probably described yourself as a pretty extreme case. Yeah, it was quite bad, yeah. Yeah, look at the smile. I mean, and sharing that, like I cannot even tell you, like how I know it's gonna help with tremendous number of people. So I so appreciate you doing that. Oh yeah, I did used to do the blood pressure as well. Did you? You used to check blood pressure, yeah. I used to do my blood pressure, yeah. Cause I probably like blood pressure. I used to, oh my God, it's so low. Yeah. I mean, the thing is again, I'm not a doctor. If it's low, what am I gonna do about it? Nothing. Cause I don't live close to a hospital. I'm not gonna call that an ambulance for like blood pressure. Yeah. So I'm just gonna sit there with my feet up in the air. But I think the difference is now you can look rationally and say, what was I gonna do anyway? Yeah, but even going back to the point of when I was like obsessively doing it. Yeah. What was I gonna do with that information? Yeah. Thinking now, looking back, what was I gonna do with that information? Yeah. Nothing. There's nothing I could do. Like, okay, it's 96 over 40. That is really low. But what am I gonna do now? Nothing. Nothing. Cause I can't do anything about it, can I? But then I would have been, oh my God, it's so low. You know, I need to go to the doctor. I need to find that. And I would have found out the doctor. Right, right. You know, I was even doing like a diabetes insulin. Do my blood check. And I found out my, I don't even have it. And I found out the doctor once because it was really low. And it's like, Sarah, it's fine. I was like, yeah, but it's like, it's like 4. Cause our numbers are different. Yeah. The range is like 4.9 to 7 is normal. Yeah. And mine was like 4. I was like, oh my God, surely I'm gonna die. And I found out the doctor was like, just stop it, Sarah, just stop it. You don't have to die. I was like, yep, I've had like six glasses of water today. I'm really, this was when I was having my breakdown. So just drop it. Just drop it. There's nothing, you're fine. But then. Yeah, you don't have the ability to just drop it. No, no, rational thinking didn't exist for from December the 1st to February the 14th is when I took my first sense of presence, Valentine's Day. And so it was a really long time of just, I mean, that was the worst, but I mean, obviously it went for years before that, but that was a pinnacle of it. That is a long road that you went down. So I think in the end, and again, you know what? I think it's a valuable story for people to hear and the way you came out of it and did what you had to do. And now you're sitting here so naturally. I think, and you know, we can, you can feel free to, you don't have to answer anything you don't want, but I know people are also going to ask what, you know, is there any other anxiety issue that's still lingering because people are going to ask that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, agrophobia. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. But the two separate issues. Yeah, I've got completely, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I mean, I said to you before, I mean, some things people couldn't overcome easier than others. I mean, I've had friends that have like, like overcome agrophobia, but still struggle with health anxiety. Sure, sure. You're the only one. Yeah, so, I mean, it's, it's, and I can sit and go, yeah, I've recovered from health anxiety, but I still struggle with agrophobia, but I'm not anywhere near as bad as I was with that either. I mean, because when like, I don't know if it's when I was speaking to you or just before I was speaking to you, I was literally trapped in my, my down, I was trapped in the lounge downstairs. I couldn't even get to the, I couldn't even get upstairs to the toilet on my own. Yeah, I remember. Do you know what I mean? I've had to call people home to take me to the toilet. Yeah. I've come a long way since being trapped in my front room being taken to the toilet upstairs. You never looked like this. Like happy, relaxed, like you never, when I, when I was stressed, never you were never, you never were just chatting like this ever. I never saw you like this. So it's really great cause I was always constantly like, ah, in my head, like going, is there something now I don't have much in my head to be honest. There's not much going on out there. No, it's okay. I prefer it like this. This is easy. It's better. Sure, it's better when you're not upset and like constantly in your own head. No, I'm not upset. Having come as far as you did and getting past that crippling health anxiety and even being so improved with your other anxiety issues. You know, maybe it's not necessarily beyond agoraphobia, but like, what do you think the outlook is? I mean, you exhibited a tremendous, you got yourself out of that. Like... I mean, I'm currently, I'm having therapy again now. I've seen amazing therapist and she's the only one I've ever like clicked with. And she, it's like going in and chatting to a friend and we sit and talk about like life. We talk about my anxiety. We talk about all that kind of stuff. And it's just, and even last week, I've just read a book and I read the book and I was like, oh my God, it was one of those epiphany moments where he's like, oh my God, I get it. I finally get it. I actually get it, you know. And it was after I watched them do nothing. And I was like, oh my God, that's what Drew said. And I went and saw my therapist and I spoke to her about it. And I was like, oh my God, she goes, well actually, Sarah, that's what I've been telling you for like, I was like, yeah, but perhaps I needed to sit in black and white in front of me. Yeah, sure. But I mean, there was a time when I used to go and see her and I'd sit there and panic. You know, I'd be sitting there shaking and I don't have that anymore. You know, there's lots of areas. You know, I think that perhaps I might struggle with but there's other areas that I know are gonna be fine. And that is basically, and I'm gonna be like kind of, I don't wanna trivialize it but it does all come down to your thoughts. It's, that's true. And I don't think you trivialize, I trivialize. That is the bottom line, it's your thoughts. It's your thoughts that create all this crap that we deal with. Yeah. And even like when it's, you know, when you're having a panic attack out of the blue, it's not out of the blue because most of the time we're anxious about something and your body can't be anxious without it having to expel itself somehow. And that's when you have like out of the blue panic attack but it probably isn't because, you know, God knows what other things have been going on in your life that creates this. It's never really good at the point. Yeah. I know this now and I know that nothing's gonna hurt me. And I also read something that's very interesting that I'm gonna share. When like, when you have a panic attack and it feels absolutely horrible, the worst it can possibly feel, it's never gonna get any worse than that because that first release of adrenaline is as bad as you're gonna feel. You may think it's gonna feel worse than that. You're gonna get worse, you're gonna get worse but it isn't. That first hit of adrenaline is as bad as it's gonna get. As the worst it knows how to do. It is the worst. Yeah. And it can only come down from there. I mean, you can keep it going at that level. If you allow it, it will never reach that point of the first bit where it's gonna die. That's it, that's it. That is the level it's gonna get. And you could, like I say, continue a little bit or you can just go, come on then, kill me. Oh, good God. If you do not even know, I'm just gonna flat it. I cannot believe I'm hearing you say these things. Just kill me. Yeah, just kill me if it wants. Dad, come on. There were times in the past that I just wanted to shake you because I knew this was in you and like, here it is. Yeah. You may say that you're still agoraphobic but you are flat out at the top of my success story list. Absolutely. Because to know like where you were back in those days and the things you used to say and the way you would describe yourself as this is it. I'm just, you literally wrote a blog entitled, I'm agoraphobic. That was the name of your blog. Too bad, this is what I am. Yeah. And. Yeah. What a huge, huge difference in you. I can't even believe it. Oh, no, it's just like, it's gonna, you know, it's hard work and I'm not gonna say that no point I'm gonna go, oh my God, I can't do, you know, I'm having a moment and I don't know if I can do this and perhaps I'll sit in my house for another three months but that's what it is. It's always gonna be a rollercoaster, isn't it? Absolutely. We have a condition. It's not gonna be place staying. It's never straight up. Yeah. It's not gonna be Disney World. Excuse me, it's not Disney World, is it? It's not gonna be, sorry. It's okay, it's totally fine. It's not Disney World. We're gonna have peaks and troughs but it's just going, I can't, you know. And I keep, and I keep, like, for the last couple of weeks I keep putting myself in positions where, you know, I know would make me panic, you know. I walk further than I could or I should be able to do and I'm like doing it. I'm like walking, I'm like, come on then, you know. Mate, come on, come on, I'm waiting for you. Yeah. And I'm like, and I feel a bit like disheartened when it doesn't happen because I'm like, because I wanted to prove to myself that, you know, I can handle it. So, so, so impressive. I can't even get to tell you, like, this is amazing. It's really great, really great. So, thank you so much. I'm not gonna pretend it's not, you know, it isn't easy but, you know. It's not easy. It's not supposed to be. I'm done, I'm done. I mean, I've had 21 years of it. You know, I think, I think I've done my bit now. I think you have, I think you have. Wow, this is so great. So, so, so, so great. I can't even get to tell you. Like, I am just bubbly. So, really great, really great. Well, I have anything else you wanna add? I mean, I appreciate you've given me 40 minutes of your time. So great, but. Just if anybody wants to contact me then. Just contact me. Yeah, just talk to me. I mean, I'll talk to anybody about it. So, if they need to know anything else or I've missed something else, just, you know, message me whatever, it's fine. Do you still have a channel on YouTube? Yes, yeah. Is it active? Do you still post? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'll link it. Send me the link. I'll put it in the description. Yeah, I'll put it in the description. I can't remember what it is. That's fine. Send me the link. I'll link it in the description so you guys can check it out. It is active, I do. I do frequently post on there, yeah. Yeah. Are any of your old videos from back in the day still there? Yeah, all there. Everything's still there. Oh, then we must, yes. Yeah, everything's still there. I did one example of a tremendous turnaround from one state to another. Yeah, why am I a phobia? Or am I a phobia? Like, oh God. I'm so like, I'm a personality back then. It's just all of, oh my God, you're so boring girl. Which is, where is it? Oh God, that's rough. I'm a lot older now and I think perhaps I'm a lot wiser. Well, that happens. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's a benefit of a few extra years, I get it. Yeah, yeah, it's been cool. A few more gray hairs. Okay, oh yeah. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. More gray hair. No, no, that's me. Oh, you're talking about you, yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking about me. Yeah, I'm dying it. This is natural. This is died. Oh, you're not supposed to give your secrets already like that. You know that. I don't care. Well, thank you so much, Sarah. Like, this has been so, so, so great. And maybe we'll try it again. Like, when you're out and about. Yeah. Okay. So much fun. Thank you for having me. Yes, you're very, very welcome. I'm gonna hit the stop recording button and that'll still kill it. So guys, thanks. Make sure you check out Sarah's channel. Join the Facebook group. I'll put a link in the description like I know Sarah's there. I don't know how often, but you know, there's so many great people and a lot of help. So go with it. Lovely. Okay. Thanks guys. See you next time.