 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? Larry Lassur from the CBS television news staff and Francis W. Carpenter of the Associated Press. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Sir Percy Spender, Ambassador from Australia to the United States. It's always a pleasure to welcome back an old friend. Our guest tonight is not only an old friend of the Chronoscope program. He's a tried and true friend of our country. Whenever we're in trouble diplomatically speaking, we can always count on our friend from Australia to pitch in when the going gets rough. Sir Percy, I'd like to ask you something about the recent conference in Manila. Do we actually get what we wanted out of that recent Southeast Asian pact? It depends upon what you mean, what you wanted. I think that there was a very substantial meeting of minds, and having regard to the difficult days which we're confronted with, I think was a very successful result. Well, is this treaty any good, actually, if India and some other Southeast Asian nation stay out of it? Well, certainly we wouldn't have participated in it if we hadn't thought it was good. You must make a start somewhere. We know that other countries have different views to our own. We understand the reasons why they differ, but it was Australia's view that we should go ahead, and we did go ahead. Well, do you think the communism threat in Southeast Asia is the next big threat? Is that where the next pitch is to come from Moscow? I can't say with any degree of certainty where the next pressure will be applied. One knows very well it's always applied where the weakness is. My feeling is, and has been for some time past, that trouble will always occur in that part of the world if any further trouble does occur. Well, sir, Percy, a lot of people over in this country think correctly or incorrectly that the United States is again holding the bag, if I may say so, on the Southeast Asian defense alliance. And that we are committed to fight in defense of certain countries, but they are not committed to fight unless they find that the action is in their self-interest. Now, is that true? I don't think it is at all, sir. After all, under the terms of the treaty, we all enter into exactly the same obligation. The degree of that obligation in terms of burden, of course, varies with countries, depending upon their military strength, the economic strength, and their interest. After all, it is quite clear that this country, with its greater economic and military strength, will carry the major portion of the burden of maintaining peace in that part of the world. But you will not find our own country lacking in its desire to work at all times in carrying out to the full the obligation we've entered into. Sir, Percy, while we're talking about communist dangers and threats, what is the situation with the Communist Party in your own Australia? Well, I suppose it's precise to the same as it is in most democratic countries. There has been a Communist Party in our country. There have been more than one attempts to deal with it by legislation, but the most effective means which so far have been found to deal with it are, first, by the work of unionists themselves inside their union, and secondly, by what is called in our country the secret ballot for the election of union leaders, and so that where the secret ballot applies, communist leaders are not able to engage in their usual tactics of rigging the ballot. I think you've got a lot of applause from Americans by the firm way that your government handled that Petrov case down there, don't you, Larry? Yes, the man who deserted it from communism. Have the Russians reacted at all to your very stern action and connection with this man by giving him sanctuary? The only result is well known to the world that I'm able to speak about, namely that they withdrew their embassy representatives from Australia, and we as a result did likewise. They have no relations with the Soviet Union now? Well, I understand the strict protocol. The relations are not broken off, but... They just don't exist. So, firstly, what about the situation in Japan? Now, the Russians are trying to draw Japan into their trade orbit. Would you consider that a dangerous situation for your country and for mine? I do not doubt whatever. The prime aim of Russia in relation to Japan is at least the neutralization of Japan, but over and above that its purpose is to seek by whatever means are open to it, by blandishment, by pressure, by internal operations to bring Japan into the orbit of the Soviet and communist influence. After all, Stalin said a long time ago that if that could be accomplished in the belief of the Soviet was that the world, the communist world would be invincible, and so that any attempt by Russia or by the communists to attract Japan into its orbit is one which causes concern, to ask for it to all the free world, whose purpose it ought to be to do whatever it can to enable Japan to develop and be maintained as a democratic country. Well, so, Percy, does Australia fear most the spread of communism or is it afraid of a rivified aggression by Japan? Whilst at all times, we have been wary of accepting the proposition that the roots of democracy have gone down deep into the Japanese way of life, it is a very proper observation to make that we see the immediate problem in the foreseeable future as that of communist aggression. What do you think about the rearmament of Germany? Is that bothering Australians very much? Indeed, it tears because after all, in two world wars, we have come into a state of war and we have sent our troops overseas as a result of incidents which took place a long way from our shores in Europe. And so whatever takes place in Europe is of consequence to us. We believe in very firmly that you cannot deal with segments of the world except in terms of seeing the whole problem globally. Well, so Percy, I'd like to turn to a place that's a little nearer to your country than Europe, and that's Korea. Are you withdrawing your troops from Korea the way we have and the British have at least a portion of them? There have been already. It was announced only in the last two, three days. These matters were all discussed, of course, between the different nations and we have the same as you with drawn some of our troops. Do you think that will create a vacuum that will tempt the communists to try to come back down again? I don't think so. You think they'll observe the armistice? I do not think that way. This is my own judgment. I do not think we're likely to meet in Korea in the foreseeable future any resumption of overt aggression. The first thing we're going to see you sitting at the chair of Australia in the coming General Assembly of the United Nations opening next week and there's going to be a lot of interesting questions there. And one that everyone in the United States is interested in is the admission of Red China. Do you think it's going to give us trouble at this coming session? I don't think any more than in the past. What do you think will happen to it? Post-ponent again? I would think that there isn't any real danger of communist China being admitted into the United Nations at this session. Should we say in the foreseeable future is that a phrase that's banded about, I think? Well, true it is, but of course it's banded around like so many other phrases but none of us can see any more than a certain part of the future and there is nothing permanent in life in respect of anything. One of the interesting questions is going to come up there, Sir Percy, is the desire of Greece to incorporate Cyprus within its empire. Now may I ask you, are all the Dominions going to back the position of Great Britain and its reluctance to turn over the island of Cyprus to the Greeks? I will do no more than say that this is of course a matter, primarily in which Great Britain is interested but we too have our interests for many other reasons quite apart from our very close association with Great Britain. Well, you've got another case that's closer home. You've got the Indonesians wanting to take over West New Guinea. That's right. And what are your views on that? Well, our views have been expressed more than once. We say in the first place it isn't a matter which is one which ought to be brought into the United Nations at all and secondly when the issue is examined there isn't the slightest merit in the claim of Indonesia that they're making. These people of West New Guinea are quite different people altogether and I've never for my part been able to understand by what justification under the charter or otherwise you can hand over either by this or that means one and a half million people who are different people altogether without asking them what they think. We don't hand over people these days I hope to anyone. The person I've heard it said in this country that Britain exercises a veto over the actions of the United States and in turn India exercises a veto over the actions of Great Britain. How accurate would you say that theory is? Well, if I may use Mr. Carpenter's phrase, that's a slogan which has bandied about a bit too. It's quite clear that no nation if it wants to pursue a course of conduct which is irrespective of what other nations think is limited by any veto. A nation if it wants to can say we'll do this irrespective of what other people think. But in these days in the world in which we live it's a very wise policy to have regard to the views of other nations not to condition precisely what the policy of a nation should be but to have regard to it and determining that policy and it's quite impossible to determine policy without having regard to the views of other people of the world. So Percy, President Eisenhower's proposal for a peacetime atomic pool seems to be coming along all right. Australia's in on that, isn't it? Yes, we indicated our acceptance of the proposal right from the beginning. So, Percy, it's almost a year since you've been on this program. I'd like to ask you, do you feel that the alliance of the free nations is as strong as it was during the Korean War or are the seams showing just a little bit? Well, I don't doubt, Mr. President, that in the last 12 months there has been a substantial shift in the balance of power throughout the world. Behind the United Nations, of course, this struggle for power goes on primarily because of the aggressive policy of Soviet Russia and the communist China. And that change in balance of power is primarily due to the successes the communists have had, particularly in China and to the psychological successes, for example, in preventing world bringing about indirectly the collapse of EDC and by the progress which they have made in atomic and hydrogen weapons and in the result, of course, has been a change in the balance of power. I don't mean by that that they've achieved the balance of power, but there has been a change in it and therefore renders the problem which confronts the free world of great urgency. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Percy. It was a pleasure to hear from my friend. Very glad to be here. Very glad to be here. The opinions expressed on the launch in Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the launch in Chronoscope was Larry Lesser and Francis W. Carpenter. Our distinguished guest was Sir Percy Spender, ambassador from Australia to the United States. The official watch for the world's heavyweight boxing championship between Rocky Marciano and Ezard Charles is launch in the world's most honored watch. 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