 I was really nervous to speak to you today because you're like a legend. No, that's I am no one. This is absolutely untrue. And actually, I got to say, I am excited for you to start feeling your legend arc right now, because I think that you're a legend. I hope you know that I'm like very excited to talk with you today. This is, uh, this is great in the era of sharing. Yes, I actually really like that. OK, so I have to say, I didn't know what we're going to talk about today specifically, which is kind of a weird place for me. And I didn't want to overthink it because I do tend to overthink like everything, but I want to talk about like what we're doing here first, like this shared space that kind of you, me and Jason kind of like fell into together, like I feel like we're all kind of like navigating the world in our own time. And then like all of a sudden we kind of like fell into a pit together. And it's been maybe the greatest experience that I've had in a long time. I mean, it has been the greatest experience I've had, you know, at least in a couple of years. And I want to learn more about how your experience is in this, this pit, this pit of feelings and sharing and all that that we're in right now. I guess I felt a lot over the last few years, especially over the last year. I think you alluded to this at one point. And I think I did in a recent video in that when you're on the internet and you are in public, it's often very difficult to be completely honest. It's real. The the effect of physically having to silence yourself every day about how you are, what you're feeling, what you might be doing about that, how you're experiencing the world, the effect of that is exhausting. And I think the experience for me so far has been liberating and almost like talking to a therapist, which I haven't done in a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds weird. That the the whole public would be your therapist. Well, in a way, I feel like maybe my camera is my therapist or I am my therapist. You know, when you have a therapy session and you speak for a while and all of a sudden something clicks in your head and that's what my first video felt like. And I think that's why I continued to do it. I didn't expect to make four videos in that week whatsoever. I thought I was going to make one and then probably not make another one. That was good enough. One was good. Yeah, I did. I did the thing. I did it. Bye. It's hard, right? Like it's hard for you that your nerves to handle, I think. I went through some intense therapy this last year, kind of navigating some previously undiagnosed OCD stuff. And there was a post that I put online that was very dark and a friend of mine who's a very good friend called me immediately just to make sure I was OK and all that kind of stuff. And like it wasn't it really wasn't worrisome. If you know me, I'm just kind of dark. I've always been that way. But I ended up taking it down and I told him, I was like, you know, I appreciate you reaching out. I was like, I'm totally fine. But there are sometimes there are things that I need to say out loud and have them have even a little bit of an effect on the world. And that's enough, right? Like and it's not like I'm not trying to get attention. It's just like there's a thing in me that needs to have to physically change the world, like like put those bits on the Internet. And even that is like enough sometimes to have released it. And I'm curious, like, is that kind of like the feeling that you have when you make these incredibly like personal and like introspective videos? Yes. But it was unintended. So what's weird is that these weren't intended to be these personal videos whatsoever. I had a list of all the things I wanted to talk about for a long time. And they were just, you know, bullet points on an ocean. And I as we all have. Yeah. One of the first ones I wanted to make was what is success? And I wrote like a script and I wanted it to be this B roll focused me going for a walk, me working at my desk, me just being I would have narrated this really well articulated, formed out, script over it. And I was going to record some music for it, my own music, because one of the things that I did a degree in composition. And one of the things that I really miss at the moment is making music. So I was going to make that video as an excuse to make the music. But it was going to be probably really vapid, isn't probably not the right word. But like, it was just wasn't going to be like me. It was going to be a projection. Yes. Saying that's good. Yes. Oh, shit. Yeah. Wow. OK. Sorry. I have to I have to feel that for a second. So almost like so it is all very much you. Like so every every composite piece of it is you almost in a way of protecting the piece from actually being you. Yes, that's crazy. And it would have taken me weeks. It would have taken me weeks to make. I would have hated it. I would have obsessed over it. Yes. And I guarantee that when I put it on the Internet, no one would have given a shit. Yes. Oh, shit. And, you know, the response I got to those stupid reasons why I don't make videos was so like real that I thought, I'm just going to do this then. Yeah. And all of this has been completely unplanned. The only thing I planned about any of these videos was the title. And then I just talked. Which is absolutely I just have to say like that is remarkable. I would be remiss to get through any of this without complimenting your ability to take a title, take a like just the tip of a feeling and express it so neatly. I think I had this moment where I was like, damn, it's almost so good at this. When you had the video with the two plants and like the whole time I'm like, I'm like, oh, this is really interesting. It has kind of like a like a 80s music video kind of vibe. Like this is super cool. And then like you hit the plants as like a part of the thing that you were talking about, like, I don't know, two minutes in. I was like, like my head literally went back. Like I got hit. I was like, fuck, that's good. I'm not very good at this, but I have to say thank you because I am obviously feeling the desire to say nah. But I think why I was able to just say those things was because I've been feeling them my whole life. Yes. Yeah. They are a part of me. They are something that I've grown up with and something that is with me every single day. So I'm just saying what's inside me. Yeah. Stupidly profound of that sound. How has this experience for you been distinct from therapy? Because they are they're the extremely different things, you know, having having a conversation with someone about the things that you've experienced and feelings that you have in the privacy of of, you know, four walls and, you know, lawsuits, you know, waiting to happen versus talking to a camera and then uploading it to the internet. And and also like this part that we haven't talked about, like that that middle piece where you actually have to look at yourself talking about this feeling that you're having and edited. How tell me a little bit about how you experience the difference of those two things. I found that if you think about it like talking to yourself and not a camera, it kind of turns into a manageable experience. I think it's because I'm not doing this for work. Yeah. Yeah. When when you record videos for work, you have a certain script of things to say. Sometimes the script is written for you. You have particular things that you need to say in order to have done a good job. A mental health professional once told me that they didn't think that I would be responsive to many types of therapy because of the level of insight I have into how I feel things and why I feel things. That would wreck me. And so I thought, well, whatever, I'll just get on with my life then. It's like CBT has been something that I've been referred to over the years back in the day. And after like a session, I'm like, this is a little bit lame. I can't coach myself like this. I need someone else to tell me what to do. But someone commented on my first video, Stupid Reasons Why I Don't Make Videos, and they said, it's like you are doing CBT live on yourself because you're taking these things and you're physically getting rid of them. And so the whole experience for me has been this this comes with some context. I'm going to have to explain parenting myself. I'm a very good mother. The best thing I am in life is a mother and I am very proud of that, very proud of my child and how our relationship has developed. And because I didn't have that with my mother. I'm so glad that you can say that just so matter of factly. Like this is I'm over it now. Good. Like it's been a long time. I didn't have the parent relationship with either of my parents where it's loving and nurturing and builds confidence and is unconditional. So without that, I spent my 20s very lost, very lost. And I couldn't figure out how to parent myself. It was only when I had my child that I could start to treat myself like I was treating my child. And I think making these videos, talking to myself and or a camera in this way is my version of parenting myself, I think. Yeah, that is such an interesting way to look at it. And I think, you know, it's interesting because I imagine that you could probably, you know, poll so many different people who do this type of thing where they're talking, you know, emotively and honestly to a camera and like maybe they all have like a very different experience. But that is very cool that you can hold on to that experience, right? Of like, hey, there was this deficiency that I experienced as a child. And I have done my best to repair that in like moving forwards to the degree that I would even call myself a good parent, which is a challenge to admit to yourself that you're good at anything sometimes. Globally, not not you. I'm not speaking for you specifically. I just want to be very quick. Speaking to myself to be quite frank, there's something beautiful about then being able to turn that on yourself and say, hey, I am a I am a good I have grown into a great parent. And now I want to offer my my child self the parent experience that they never had. Like, that's that's like the the the 3D, like it's like a psychological chest move right there. It's like such a hard thing to even conceptualize. But it's so cool that that just put setting a camera up has able has been able to give you the feet, the proper feedback loop where you can both say it and receive it. That's freaking wild. Like, what a cool thing is that? And I think also it has to do with intention and also environment. So, for example, the amount of times I thought about recording all these videos and I was only thinking about it in the environment box of sitting at my desk in front of my other camera with my prompter reading off a script, doing technical things, because I don't want to go too far into this subject. But being a woman in tech, you have to prove yourself and you have to talk about technical things and you have to make sure they're 100 percent correct. And that was a big barrier in me just talking about stuff. I was very afraid of being wrong. I was very afraid of reading the script wrong and having to take forever to edit it. And, you know, putting makeup on to sit there on that desk that I'm so used to doing because I've done that historically for the last four years. Yeah. And so I think changing things to make things easier and just different and see what comes out of it is an interesting tactic. If I could offer any advice to anybody who wants to do this, I guess it's like find out what you think is blocking you and then twist it on its head. I never would have thought I would be using my phone camera for recording videos. Yeah. And I think I'm running out of configurations of where to put furniture in my office as well. So there's only so far you can go. But, you know, it's also fun to, you know, with the plant set up, it was fun to think, OK, so how can I make this different? And it just it becomes a video title and where the tripod is. I think if I'd recorded all four videos in the same environment, then they would have been different as well. Yeah, sure. Sure. That that is interesting. Like like there's something about the space that you chose to express that thought that actually is somewhat representative of thought itself, which is weird. So so I've been doing this series. It's it's quite a it's quite a bit different. It's just kind of like cataloging my layoff. There is like a lot more of like at the desk stuff or like, you know, whatever. And so I've only had like a couple chapters of it, if you will, that have gone into the like me just talking about a feeling that I that I'm having. And like an interesting piece of it for me is just kind of like. Listening to the gut, I guess, of like where where do I feel like talking about this? Where is the space that like resonates with me saying this thing? And sometimes you do set the tripod up and you sit there and it's kind of like. No, it's not here. I that's happened to me. Absolutely. It's perfect. Yes. Absolutely. Correct. Because initially this tripod was going to be over there and I was going to be replicating the same scene ish as my second video about the inevitable emptiness of finishing. But that was the inevitable emptiness of finishing scene. And it wasn't like a cool chat with Chan. Like, yeah, we did. Yeah, you got to find the cool chat with Chan spot. I know, totally. Yeah. And here it is. And it's cool. It's good because it puts you in a different space. It puts you in a different plane of existence. And I think if we really analyze this, yeah, like I do have a very. I sound like silly for talking about this, but I do have a very artistic brain. Yeah, I have a vision for everything I do. And I did I don't like to talk about it, but I did think about all the things that you know, I thought about in each video. And but I tried to make it not look like that. Like, for example, for those of you watching, I sent I sent Michael a message. I said, I am sitting in the most authentically staged scene right now, waiting for you to come into Riverside to record this. But that's a story. That's a story. But it matters because of how it makes you feel. And I could not have sat in front of my work camera and done this. And another thing I could not have been the same if I was wearing makeup and it sounds so stupid. And I know I started the stupid stupid reasons video with that. But it's such a big thing for me. The other day, actually, last week, after I'd made three videos, I did a live stream and I did my usual prep for my live stream. I put makeup on. I sat in my normal place and I was creatively blank. Oh, that's wild. Couldn't code. I was frustrated. I ended the stream early and I was just done. I mean, that was the day that my routine was broken. So it's to do with that. But also I felt wrong in front of that camera with makeup on, doing what I've been doing for four years. I felt wrong going back to that. It missed this creative journey. Very strange. And now I feel weird about streaming again. Yeah. Oh, that that is I want to talk to that feeling because like that is very real. And I think that that going into is a weird spot that I'm in right now because I don't I don't want to like center myself on this. But I do want to talk about that feeling, which is I think keeps people from doing personal work. And so I like I want to be careful that I just want to expose that a little bit. That is what kept me from doing therapy for so long is that I was very comfortable in the things that I was already doing, even though it might not be emotionally productive to. Set a goal and then just stress out until I reached it with something that I was very comfortable with. And so like the idea of losing that kept me from going to therapy for a really long time until I found a therapist who was able to say like you are a motivated person and you have a broken system for getting things done. Like the thing the thing will not leave you, but it will be different. And that scared the shit out of me and it ended up being very real. And I think it's very interesting. You know, you talking about your your streaming situation where it's like having unlocked this other part of your like feeling function, right, exposed how maybe that was not the truest form of you. It is it was like a it was coming from another part of you that may you know is also valid, but it's like this fully sectioned off. Like this is Salma streaming, right? Like there is a goal, there is a purpose, there is a format, there is a preparation required, like this is the thing. There is nothing else that is an impenetrable wall from any feelings that I may or may not have with regard to it. I mean, the streamer is like panther. And what I've been doing this last week is Salma, like fully. And I think when I first started streaming, I didn't tell people my real name even interesting until streaming became part of my job. Then I started to, you know, open up a few more things. And once I had like a very core set of regular viewers, they know things about me and they know a few anecdotes that pertain to the things I shared last week, but not these, not that not fully, you know, and it just felt a bit jarring having been in public as Salma for a few days to go back in public as white panther was weird. And it's a shame because I'm touring a talk this year that's all about streaming and my streaming persona. And this shift is happening whilst I have a lot more conferences lined up. So now I'm going to feel like a fraud going on stage. This is fascinating. And I have to say I applaud your like bravery in deciding to do it openly. Because I think, you know, for me, you know, in like a lot of the therapy work that I've done is just like I like shut off to the world for like a year. I was like, you know, it was just all, I don't know, just random thoughts that like came out of me for like a whole year. I produced almost no work. And I feel like I'm on maybe the other side of it. And so it's really impressive that you're like, you know what? I'm going to do it. We're doing it live. We're doing it live. Yeah. See, I'm not a content creator. I don't want to be a content creator. I will never be labeled as a content creator because I don't know. There's some weird kind of baggage associated with that. Right. That and influencer and like all the yeah. Just that's a weird word. I just feel like, especially in the space that we work in, I hate tooting my own horn like this. But I feel like I've got a lot of unique experiences and I started streaming because there was a gap for people like me in that space. And I think the more time has gone on, I think there's also a gap for what we're doing now in this space because the internet is just full of, hey, check out this new feature. Check out this new tutorial. Look at what I made. Oh, oh no. React. The internet started off like this, didn't it? We were on forums and we were we were being human before capitalism took over the internet. And, you know, more and more people are moving towards that again with, you know, personal websites and web rings and yes, yes. And trying to get away like from mass-owned platforms that steal your content and take it for their own. And don't have you feeling any sense of ownership over what you're doing. I'm excited to see if like this might continue and get more celebrated across the internet, you know, as as we go on. I mean, maybe there are pockets of this already happening. Maybe not in the tech industry. Maybe yeah, yeah, some other areas. I think that you're absolutely right. I think you're on to something that there's this feeling of seeing some of the old technologies that I grew up with become popular again. Right. So like cassette tapes, right? And like that, all of that stuff is very aesthetic right now. And there is I have to admit a piece of me that's like, OK, well, I'm the adult in the room, right? Like I actually use it, like I use cassette tapes. Like I made actual mix tapes. And there's a part of me that feels like I need to reintegrate as I see all of those things come up in an aesthetic sense. And it's like it's it's a reminder to me, like, dude, like you are already living the dream. If you can take your camera out, just make something stupid and share it with people like that, like that was your dream. Like when you had all of those like much harder to use, like like a less efficient distribution platform, like this was the dream. Like this was the internet that we made to experience. And then we fucked it up and we have this gross thing now. But like it doesn't have to be. We could it's still possible that we can just do the thing that we wanted to do. I was going to talk about this in my taking up space video in that since now billionaires can buy social media networks but nothing's ours anymore. If we want to be noticed, we need to write what the algorithm is programmed to want and we need to blah, blah, revenue, blah, blah. But actually we can just use it. However, we actually want how it was intended to be used. You know, I stopped using Twitter, for example, for a long time because I thought I have no place here now because I am not what the algorithm wants. You know, you can get very caught up with everyone's posting their Twitter revenue, I can I can get paid to ship post for all. And it's like, well, I don't want to ship post. Yeah. And I don't I don't need to get paid from Twitter. So what what place do I have here? Yeah. But actually, you can just make the place for yourself. And that's the whole concept of taking up space, isn't it? You can actually just go somewhere and say something, which is the dream. It is the dream. Yes. And I love that. And I think that like that is that is it, right? Like, and I think there's a tremendous amount of clarity that you've expressed through this where it's like, oh, like, I don't think like I've been I've conditioned myself over every step of the internet and what it became and like all of these steps to be like, well, this is what it is now. And it's like, doesn't have to be. Doesn't have to be. Yeah. Can do what we want. We're growing up. Yes, there's that. Oh, man, I'm going to have to link it. There's this really amazing XKCD comic. I'm going to butcher it, but I want to make sure that I can say it all. They fill up a room of their house with like those like plastic balls or something like that. And then one of them says together, because we're adults now and we get to decide what that means. And I I love it. OK, so we're going to be in a ball pit. A ball pit. OK, so let's you were transitioning into the the DevRel area, which I think you are so uniquely poised to talk about and was actually the original thing that we had talked about. Like how do you integrate yourself with well, still while being a presence for a business, which is just so sticky and falls into all of those those internet problem or challenges that we're talking about with like the algorithm, because it's like because now it's like not just a matter of like you sharing your opinion, but like you sharing your opinion to the extent that maybe you become less viable on Twitter as a platform and now erode the value that you have presented as an employee to account. Like there's so it's so entrenched. So how are you experiencing that part of it right now? DevRel to DevRel, you know that one of the things we always bang on about is authenticity is the most important quality to what we do. We cannot be seen to be regurgitating, marketing spiel. Yes, people won't trust us. We have to speak from the heart. We have to speak from authentic experience, teach through our experience and through our learning. And that's what's going to resonate with other developers. That's what resonates with us. And you spoke on one of your videos about your tenure at particular companies starts to kind of become less viable when your opinions and feelings about what the job should be differs from the department that you're in. I've experienced that many times over. It's very cyclical. And then you start to you start to get scared about losing your job. And so you just do what you're told. And yeah, you you lose that sense of self. You you lose the excitement about learning and teaching through authentic experiences by no choice of your own. You're just forced to do it if you want to keep your job. So I guess the answer to your question about where I see this fitting in I have no idea all I know all I know is so one of the things I said to my manager, Sarah, love you if you're watching, I want to make better videos. I want to make better technical videos because all the ones I've made in the past, I'm not happy with because they're scripted, they're wooden. They are they're not they're not cool. They're not me, right? Whenever I watched these videos back, I didn't see my real self. And therefore, if I couldn't connect with myself, how is anyone else going to connect with me and learn from that material? So I said to Sarah in January, I said, I want to learn how to make videos. And I didn't actually know what that meant when I said this is one of my goals for this year. Wow. Seren, well, this is Lee doing this thing of making videos for myself randomly, not about tech has put me in a better space for actually making videos about tech and I'm going to follow all the rules I set for myself in my first stupid reasons. I don't make videos video. I'm not going to write a script. I'm not going to prepare apart from the title. I'm going to learn the content. I'm going to feel the feelings about the content. I'm going to learn the content back to front and then just talk about it. And I'm not going to put makeup on and prepare myself in a situation. I'm going to probably hold my microphone because that seems to be a thing that works. And so all the things I've learned about how I make good videos and obviously then they're a lot easier to edit. They're quite quick to edit. Yeah, I'm just going to make technical videos like I've been making these videos and see what happens. And if they're shit as well, I'll try something else. That is so interesting. Like the idea of like that you said something out loud, that you set a goal and it manifested in a completely different way than you would have predicted this. I'm like so aligned with this right now because this wasn't actually a part of work. But when I was going through the syntax application process, they asked, like, you know, for yourself, like, what do you want this next year to look like for you? I honestly like that was like I was prepared to ask answer like pretty much any other question except for like, well, you know, what are you thinking about for you? It's tough. It's tough. And I said almost the same thing. I said, you know, I really want to get really good at making videos quickly in 2024. It is amazing how setting a goal like that changes everything. I guess like because I wouldn't have made any of the videos that I made this year, if I hadn't said that that was the important part that like getting good at the thing was important. And the way was being able to just kind of like get get out there and breathe, right? Be like, this is a thing that I know to this extent. I'm not an expert, but like I'm going to show you the thing that I know because I like it. How dramatically that changes the whole thing in like both for you and for the viewer. I think that's the that's the thing that you talked about earlier is like that like people actually want to see that instead because like you showed up. It's like and I think that's the thing that's maybe a little bit like embarrassing about all this. Like if I could like the feeling of I guess they wanted like me to be there the whole time and I was too afraid of all of the people like all of the randos who show up and tell me that I'm stupid, that I was forsaking the people who wanted to like just wanted to hang out with me. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a good trade, does it? It's terrible trade, but that that really makes me feel things. You're saying that. Yeah. So who are we really being like what who are we being to what and why? Yeah, I I have this this mantra that I say sometimes like I want I want to be good up close and this is kind of from some just like family scars of my parents wanting to be good at a distance, right? Like they wanted to be seen in a certain light and then as people got closer, they appeared less good up close. And I think that maybe there's this kind of a corollary in making yourself up where it's like, you know, if the camera is up close, you want to make sure that like everything, you know, looks the way that you want it to. But I think more of that feeling of like I want to be felt well up close, right? Like I want to be present for another person. It's hard in the in the conversations that we have today and like the idea of numbers and like view counts and like trying to, you know, engagement, editing and all of these things that we've had to learn over the last like three years to do our job. And like I wonder if, you know, a lot of people kind of predict the end of like some phase, but I wonder if it's not both somehow, you know, like we're on like the art of the the exploratory arc, but there's like some kind of wavelength that we like cross through, I guess, over and over again, going from one one pole to the other. I don't know. So I do want to link it back to like the the the devil experience. Like this is improving how you think about video and make video. How are you feeling about that? Is it something that is redeemable? Like, is there a future where we could see more people being people in partnership with companies without the risks that that typically entails in terms of like for their employment? Do you think that's going to be more? Or do you think it's going to kind of continue to like get siphoned off into influencer marketing and I don't know, whatever that that side of exporting it to creators? I mean, maybe there's room for both as century we're doing both. Yeah, it's a weird, weird market, weird world, weird niche. And the amount of times I've thought about just going back to engineering. Is is too many. Yeah. But when I think about going back to engineering, I will not have the creative freedom in the daytime to experiment with things like this. I mean, what's interesting is that what I've been doing, making these videos is directly contributing to my success at work. Yeah. Yep. And the right people will see that and appreciate that. For example, my manager, she's like, please don't stop. Keep going. That's great. I love that. The amount of progress I'll be able to show when I make my next technical video for my employer, I think will be great. Yeah. I hope it will be great because I feel all of a sudden like I've overcome this barrier that's been in my way for years. So this is professional development in disguise. And it's also personal development, not in disguise. And I think in DevRel, in DevRel, we need to be in places. We need to be surrounded by people in our department or managers or whatever who know the value of experimentation in order to communicate. We are learners, teachers and communicators. And as I alluded to before, we cannot communicate effectively by being told what to do by being told how to do something. Yes. And in switching up the environment and the method in which I'm doing this has given me such a different perspective on it. It's only going to be good for my professional development and the results that I can produce at work. I can guarantee that because the results I've seen from these videos in terms of engagement, if that's what companies are measuring, are astronomical compared to the engagement I've received on my previously scripted, recorded technical videos. So the numbers speak for themselves. So I have data to say I need to carry on with this and I'm going to do all of the other things that I am required to do as part of my job. But this is something that is extremely valuable that I will fight to continue to do. It will probably evolve and change, but it's a world away and it's just so much easier than what I was doing before and how I was feeling about what I was doing before. Yeah. This is so interesting. You hit it right on the head and I had not thought about this. How important it is to have a manager that understands and is standing in the gap for someone who is creative. And I think that this, I mean, like that right there is I think why so many creative fields inside of companies, you know, like, marketers, this Devereux role, like design, right? Why there's always this like very intense antagonistic relationship between the creative fields of work. And I think that we feel it in the sense of like, I know that everyone that I've talked to in the Devereux field just feels they are 100% first to go as soon as the thing isn't going up into the right. Like it's like not even a question. Like none of us feel safe in our job. Like just period. And the idea that it requires a special somebody to stand in the gap and be like, Hey, I, I understand that you can't do great work unless you can think about like, unless you can understand the whole thing, that is something to look for. Like that's a very concrete thing to look for as you're navigating companies is like, what is the person that I'm going to be reporting to think of all of this kind of this kind of stuff. And then also like the value of as early as you can showing it so that, you know, there's some context for like, yeah, this is this is the way that I kind of think about problems creatively. And it's a little bit weird. And like, but if you liked the other things, then this is the other side of that thing. I like, I honestly don't even have a question. Like I'm just like parsing like what you said about like that, that is a reality in the survival skill, I guess, is like having a good relationship with a manager who is capable of having understanding the language of creativity. And as as cliche as it sounds, all of this is just about thinking outside the box that is given to you. Yeah, yeah, I have a set of tasks to do inside this box. But what I've done, I've turned the box into something else that works for me at this point in time. I don't know, it's liberating, it's exciting, it's energizing. And I guess, you know, I suffer greatly from seasonal affective disorder and the sun is starting to come out. So I kind of feel like that's given me a new lease on life as well. Blossoming a bit, yeah, yeah. It's like so transformative, it's incredible. And I feel like I'm coming out of some kind of hibernation, not just professionally, but sometimes a bit professionally and personally. And I'm also very wary, though, that like some people probably don't want to see this. And that's okay. Before we hit record, I was telling you how embarrassed I was about all the videos and I really want to delete them, but I'm not going to. That is real. And I wonder if maybe that is maybe the benefit of the way the algorithm works is that you can be you and leave unfiltered and over time it will kind of just work itself out. You know, it's like the algorithm is kind of this organic type of thing that's like, well, you know, they actually like the tech stuff from this person, but less so the personal stuff. And we can kind of figure that out a little bit. And, you know, all this stuff kind of falls off a cliff over time anyway. Yeah, no, no. People move on to the next thing. I'm not living rent free in many people's heads. Let's be honest. Well, you are in mind for sure. Like I definitely keep thinking it's like I can visualize them. I mean, this is the beauty of you picking out the right space, too. Because it's like I've actually like held on to a couple of things. Like, oh, yep, that's I'm experiencing that feeling around finishing that like I just I don't want to because I want to hold on to this thing forever. But like I'm going to and like just accept like just take the L take the emotional L and like move on to the next thing in my life. I feel like you don't want to finish this conversation either. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is this is the problem of like giving me not not having hard stops. I do know that you have something on your diary. Is that what it is? Yes, well, I mean, yeah, dear diary. Have a meeting in half an hour. Selma, I think that I just want to say I think that you're wonderful. I am so I grateful to have been able to share this little bit of the Internet with you. It's been spectacular. It's been so meaningful to me to get to know you a little bit better just through your videos, but even just in this conversation. So thank you for being open. Thank you for being you and for helping so many other people realize like, hey, we can just we can just be us. This is the thing that we wanted, wasn't it? No, you. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You can just put that in text on over my face. No, you know you. Where can people find like we've been talking about these videos for so long? Where can people find your videos online if you want them to? I don't really want you to find them if they are meant to find you. Honestly, I don't want to plug. You will find them if they are meant for you. Beautiful. That's amazing, actually. It's like the perfect integration of person and algorithm right there. They'll come to you. Yeah, exactly. Come to you. All right, well, thanks so much. And we'll I mean, we'll see each other in each other's through each other's cameras very soon, I think. Yeah.