 Well, back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa set for a second discussion this morning and we have a guest already on standby to the justice to this issue of a head of farmer clashes. We'll introduce our guests in a second, but let's quickly give you a background to this discussion. And indeed, the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development of Nigeria, Bahama Naboba Kar yesterday said that the incessant conflicts between farmers and headers that was threatening food security, not just food security, but also national security in Nigeria. He spoke in Abuja, the regional summit on human and climate security challenges and farmer header conflict resolution in the livestock sector. The theme of the summit was promoting peace and climate security in the crop and livestock farming sectors. The minister called and stakeholders to partner with the government to bring lasting solutions to farmers and headers conflicts in the region. He also said the summit was aimed at providing an opportunity for a dialogue and discourse between the sides and of course on the way forward to achieving peaceful coexistence between both parties that's farmers and headers. Now the minister said the actors, the farmers and headers were the best tool to bring about a solution, a lasting solution to the conflict. I'm glad to say we have joining us this morning to do justice to this particular issue of farmer header conflicts and the federal government's ideas as announced by the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development and as to whether they can solve the problem. We have Shegun Shopiton, a principal partner, Woodridge and Scott Consulting Lakers. Shegun, good morning to you. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks for having me, Kofi. Good morning Nigerians. Alright, thank you very much for your time. Let's look at what the Minister of Agriculture is saying and as to whether you agree. He says that the farmers and the headers, indeed the actors in these conflicts, are the best tool to bring about a lasting solution to the conflict. Do you agree with him? No, I don't agree. I find that quite incredible, really, to hear such a highly placed government functionary applicator responsibility publicly on an issue that is this important on the national level. How can you in one breath say this issue has an impact on food security and has a heavy impact on national security and then in the same breath, you say the solution to the issue to that problem that is impacting food security and national security should be solved by the people that are involved in that issue? I mean, then why are you there? It's quite mind-boggling, really. The parties are in strife and in conflict for the very reason that they have been unable to solve this problem and it's an age-old problem. It's a problem that will not go away until somebody makes it go away. Somebody has to do something to make it go away. So the minister is basically saying, oh, you people that are killing each other and as I say this, I know that some of the farmers in certain regions will be incensed that I'm even daring to say that they are killing each other because they feel that they are being slaughtered. So for the minister to then say that, oh, you that are being slaughtered and you that are slaughtering people or whatever angle of coloration you want to give the problem, just go sit down together and solve the problem. I'm trying to be charitable with my choice of words because it makes no sense to me. The reason they are fighting and the reason this is going on is because they don't have a solution. The only solution that they have been able to come up with is to attack each other and kill each other. So how can the minister say this? It's weird. We also told that the federal government is soliciting for the support of the international community, development partners and then Nigeria's allies in addressing the farmer-header conflict also probably in a way also asking for international aid, international support to solve this problem. You think that is what Nigeria needs? I mean, look, if you live with issues, all issues to most government functionaries, they will take international aid. I'm sure that they will take international aid for helping Nigeria to breathe the air. Thank God that he means to everyone for free. It's really very, you know, I mean, I don't get it. Look, the problem, the problem and the problems have been well chronicled. They have been well analyzed, you know, taken to shreds and bits and pieces in the last, at least in the last 10 years, not to talk of the attention that this problem has received in the last seven years since the entrance of the Buhari administration because the issue escalated significantly in the early part of this administration. 2016, 2017, 2018, you know, really escalated. You know, so it has received a lot of attention both within government circles, you know, within the media space, civil society, there's been all sorts of interventions and analysis on this issue and I believe that the solutions are very, very clear. It's not to be asking for international aid, international aid to do what precisely? Well, they're asking for the international aid to, among other things, help, you know, recharge, recharge. This is a word to the minister now, to help recharge Lechad because I say Lechad is shrinking and that is a major source of this conflict because Lechad is drying up. They need it to be restored to its former glory. This is what he said, quote, our desire as a nation is for the restoration of the lake in the sub-region to its former glory by recharging it, by recharging it and also preventing further shrinkage. This is evident in our various communities, in our various appeals to the international community, development partners and other allies of Nigeria and Africa for assistance. It's monetary support to, you know, make sure Lechad comes back to what it was before. I mean, I don't think what we need is international aid in terms of funding. I think what we need is international collaboration between all of the countries that are affected by this issue, Lechad, public, Chad, I think Cameroon and Nigeria and then any other country that may have maybe the technical know-how to help with what needs to be done to achieve that objective. So, yes, that's a good objective, but I'm not sure that funding is the issue. I think that if you need it, they believe they need the funding to do this. It's so big, it's neither here nor there for me. I think that the solution, that definitely will be a part of the solution because we know that one of the things that has driven the escalation of this age-old problem has been desertification and just climate change and all of the issues around that. The fact that the Lechad has shrunk in volume by almost like 80%, obviously has reduced the available vegetation in that region for grazing and all of that. So, yes, one can accept that, but not international aid in terms of funding. I think what we need more than anything is leadership and a clear plan, a clear program to achieve that objective with miles, with clear milestones and timelines. So, you can say, oh, within the next 10, 15, 20 years, we would have achieved this volume of recharge of that body of water because, obviously, this is not something that is going to happen overnight. It's not something that can be done in one year, for example. So, where's the plan? Why don't you start talking about money? Anybody that has never gone to look for money from anybody, the first thing they ask is, how do you intend to use this money? Don't ask for a plan. So, where's the plan? Why isn't the minister talking about the plan for the recharging and he's talking about money, international aid? So, for me, the funding issue is not the problem. The real problem is the will and the know-how which regards to solving that problem. Yeah. This was sort of a talk shop, but also a way to see how they can resolve the conflicts. But, like you said, where's the plan? Because I'm wondering if the minister says, oh, we need international support to help recharge the chart and restore it to its former glory and know that this is a big source of the conflict. It's about increasing population, increasing livestock, human beings, diminishing arable and grazing lands in the northern part of the country, industrialization, so a negative, so politically influenced and all that. Will these issues solve themselves if we just say, so these are the problems, or will the international community, international aid, flow to Nigeria by just merely saying, oh, we need it? Don't they need to do something? I think that's what you're saying. They need to start working towards it. If it's desertification, what are they doing to fight desertification and all that? I think that's what you're saying. Absolutely. I read a book recently about some parts of China. You know, this desertification is not unique to Nigeria, to Africa. Other regions of the world have faced this, just now, but in the past, and you know, a province in China actually went about, there's something called the Green Wall. They went about, they went over a 30-year program to re-vegetate an entire province in China. I think between something like 1970, there about, you visit that same region today and you think that you are in a forest. And that place was a desert 30 years ago. There was a very, very clear plan that resulted in that. And the reason they did that was that as a wealth creation strategy, as a poverty alleviation and wealth creation strategy, they realized that a lot of the resources that the people in that region required was not available because of desertification and loss of vegetation. And then they went about a very careful program of re-vegetating and reforesting those places. And today, that plan has been implemented. So that's what we need to see from the Nigerian government, like where is the coherent, very well thought through, very well structured implementable plan to solve in the farmer product crisis. It's not just about talking. It's not about, you know, sound bites that we receive every now and then. It's really when there's a new incident somewhere, then somebody in government will come up and say a few nice sounding to them things. It's about sitting down and, you know, orchestrating a plan, a very well put together plan over an achievable timeline to solve this problem. This problem is not intractable. We just need somebody to sit down and put a plan together and implement it. All right. I mean, it seems to me the minister and his minister of agriculture and road development is just saying, these are the problems. These are the problems. We need to do this. We need to do that. But you are in government. So you are the one to do it. So why do you say we need to develop arable lands? We need to fight desertification. We need to reach out to the, when you are in government, it's your duty to solve these problems. Why are you telling us? That's the last question before you go. A lot of the farmers have been sacked from their farms. Those who have not been sacked are afraid to go to the farm because of these conflicts. In some cases, whole villages have been sacked. They've driven the villagers away and taken over the land. So those who are still there, they wake up in the morning and their crops have been eaten by cows. So what can be done in the short-term to medium-term to solve Nigeria's food insecurity, which is already staring us in the face because of this crisis, apart from even the floods that just recently ended? To be honest with you, we've had this conversation a number of times on different platforms and I tell you there are near short-term fixes for food insecurity because you don't manufacture these things. You don't manufacture rice. You don't manufacture yams. You don't manufacture tomatoes. You grow them and they have a gestational period that some of them, six months, some is one year. Some is an annual cycle. Some have a biannual cycle where you have to harvest in a year. So for some other types of crops, it's four cycles in a year. So these are not things that you can just solve if you have the food insecurity threat is looming. It's because things have happened last year that is reducing your harvest this year. So I'm not sure that there is a short-term to mention. I think what the government simply needs to do is to tackle this issue and solve it once and for all. And it still comes down to the will and the sincerity of purpose from the government. Nobody, nowhere in the developed world the places that we like to be like, do you have people carrying cows, cattle, through forests, looking for grazing pastures and then destroying and rampaging through people's property in the process. Nobody does that anymore. We're not in the stone age anymore. The government needs to come up with a proper ranching template. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I was just prompted by producers that we have to go. So sorry to interject. I really appreciate your time and of course your expert analysis as always. Thank you, Barbara. All right. Thank you very much. And that has been Shagun Shepidong, principal partner of Woodbridge, Woodbridge, rather, and consulting leaders. And that's the size of our package. I hope you enjoyed the show. And please be reminded, you can follow us on social media, such as PlusTVAfrica, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. We also have a second YouTube account, PlusTVAfrica, live star for all of us here at our studios in Victoria Island, Lagos. My name is Kofi Bartels. See you tomorrow.