 You're welcome back to the run-up. We're being joined by Mr. Theo Philos Akatuba and what our concern is is that the collection of permanent voter cards PVC has begun. The independent National Electoral Commission, INEC last month, they commenced the distribution of the all-important PVCs at its local government offices nationwide. The commission had announced that Nigerians can now obtain their cards between the 12th of December and 22nd of January 2023. The commission also resolved to devolve PVC collection to the 8809 registration areas and wards from 6th of January to 15th of January 2023. That's from tomorrow to the 15th of January. And media reports so far indicate that the collection process has been anything but smooth. Just like the registration process, the collection exercise has been a crowded experience. I didn't say that we have been joined by Mr. Theo Philos Akatuba. Mr. Akatuba, good morning and welcome to the show. Yeah, good morning. Happy New Year to you, Yango. Good to be with you on Plus TV Africa. Same to you, Mr. Akatuba. We're hoping to be joined also by Mr. Phil Badong, coordinator and founder of Kaduna PVC Hangout. I don't know if he's here available already. If you're here, good morning and welcome. Okay, Mr. Phil will be joining us a little bit later. So Mr. Akatuba, we were told, even as of yesterday, the figure of uncollected PVCs still stands at or still stood at 6.7 million PVCs. That's a whole lot of PVCs not collected. So this low turnout and the heat cheese trailing the collection of PVCs in Lagos and beyond, how is it going to affect the 2023 election? Well, obviously, if you don't have a lot of PVCs that are collected, it means that the voter turnout will be affected. It will immediately tell you that there will be a relatively low voter turnout. And so there is a need for people to collect their PVCs. So the INEC is bringing out these records and this report for those who have not collected their PVCs to do so, because there is a direct relationship between collected PVCs and the number of people that are qualified to cast their votes. It would be a waste of time to ask people to come out and vote if they do not have their PVCs. So PVC collection is sacrosanct. It's very, very critical to the level of participation of citizens in the electoral process. And it is, in fact, one of the most important tools that the voter needed to participate in the vote. It's not enough to agitate. It's not enough to be on social media and begin to call for or support a candidate without you having your PVCs. So those who have not collected their PVCs, this is the time to go because without the PVCs, you cannot cast your vote and then the turnout will be low. And then candidates that are not supposed to win are likely to win, especially those you do not want to win because it is your vote that will bring victory to your candidate. So it's very important. It has a lot of effect. And again, a low voter turnout sends a signal of apathy and disinterest of citizens in the process of governance of their country. And to that extent, it also has an effect on the legitimacy of the elected leader. Because if you have a population of, say, 20 million voters and the election that brings victory to a candidate is less than 2.5 million or 3 billion, it sends a kind of message of illegitimacy because you are representing a small fraction of the voting population. So it's very important that everyone goes to get their PVCs. Very important. Okay. But the question here is that all the concern is that it's likely that the people who have not collected their PVCs might just be those who registered newly. The old voters still have their PVCs and possibly can use these PVCs. So are we not saying that, if that is the case, are we not saying that every voter or every person that has been voting before that has been putting whoever has been put in in the place of authority has not had any change of heart whatsoever to make a difference in the forthcoming election. Let me explain this. Now, if 100 people were turning out to vote in those days and getting someone into that place, do you think the voter education now, the awareness, the level of awareness of the electoral process and the confidence that be vast, for instance, has put in the minds of the people? Will that be enough to make the electoral process this time have a different outlook? Or is it going to be business as usual if the new people who registered will not go get their PVCs? Will there ever be a difference? All right. Thank you. In the past, elections are determined by most times the total number of registered voters in an area. And then it didn't have any correlation with those who presented themselves for accreditation. Most times politicians in their localities award the votes to themselves. Whilst they look at the register, they are able to determine that, okay, we have 10,000 registered voters in this polling unit or polling area. We are given to party A, 6,000. Based on settlement and all the agents, the connives with the highest bidder and award the votes to that person. And then they do the term printing to correlate. That has been a common practice. Before then, when the cadre also came, you also had the same situation where you have incident forms. And so what we thought we escaped from, they did it even more in many reverend area of my state, Delta, for example. It is common knowledge that votes are located without the voter being present. Now it is practically impossible for you to do that because the voter must present himself. It must be electronically accredited by biometric and facial features or facial features with a machine that transmits that accreditation to a database outside of that area, which can no longer be altered. And then the outcome of the election, the actual vote cast must tally with the accredited voters. So that is why if politicians think that they can dissuade the people from collecting their PVCs and therefore later award votes to themselves, they'll be wasting their time. So too with those people who have been buying or taking PVCs from voters or buying their PVCs in order to make sure they either do not vote or on the day of election, they are asked to queue up for their voter card and they are given money to influence their direction of vote. All of these have become even more difficult. So collecting your PVCs is actually something that is the completion of your voter registration process. You cannot say I am a voter when you have no PVC. Even if your name is in the voter registration, the voter register, without that PVC presented, you will not be able to vote because it is required for your accreditation process to complete. So I implore all Nigerians, especially the new ones that are registered recently, the zest with which they did the registration, I am sure they should go and complete the process by picking up their PVC. I picked up my PVC in the Niger local government area. I used to vote somewhere around in Agege, I used to live somewhere in New Dairy farmer state and my voter place was some primary school around the Agege area. So I moved away from that area and I had to transfer my vote and my new PVC was given to me at Akeja, Aenec office, Akeja local government Aenec office. Initially, I went to the local government of Akeja and a sign was placed there that the Aenec people have moved to Muizban area around the JRO area. I had to go there and I took my time, spent the time, waited in the queue and so many people were restless as usual and I was playing the role of a pacifier, educating them to become that every process is painstaking. So I got my PVC and I'm ready to cast my vote on election day. Without that, you won't be able to cast your vote. You won't be able to actualize your dream of the candidate you want to govern Nigeria or to who govern your state, be in the assembly. You will simply be someone who has a desire that you cannot implement. There was no turnout. He chees that trailed a collection of PVCs in Lagos. There was a, in parts of Lagos yesterday, the independent national electoral commission Aenec commenced distribution of permanent voter's cards, PVCs to voters. Report has it that the flag of the collection yesterday was trailed by a low turnout of people in some of the local governments visited. In some local governments, many people that turned up to pick their PVCs expressed disappointment that their cards were not available. At a Gigi local government, it was reported that most people that couldn't get their PVCs and they were asked to come back next week. And that's how the story has been. Aenec is decrying the low collection of PVCs in Bernou in Kogi as well. They are decrying the low collection of PVCs, same as in Delta and in Bernou state and so many other parts of the country. But for us to be sure that they were not just crying wolf, the people who are complaining about inability to collect PVCs are not just crying wolf, what amount of time do you need to spend? Like you gave the example that you went yesterday and you had to go to another place and you were a pacifier. But people were restless. Those were your words. How much is someone likely to wait on a queue before you can get this PVC so that we get to know which part is the fault of Aenec and which part is the fault of the people? Well, I believe that Aenec has a huge... They've been doing a lot of work. The work they do is really, really tedious. I was restless until when I got in there to pick my card and I saw the process, the documents that I need to sign, the process of ensuring the card is given to the right person. That process alone, for only me, if you multiply by number of people they will be attending to in one day, that will tell you how long it takes for them to deliver a card. Whether the process is right or wrong, my call is that Aenec will need to do a lot of consistent orientation, continuous conversation. For example, when the registration area or the card collection was moved from the local government at Quartinecaja, there was not enough information either on the social media or Aenec handles for people to know that quickly. That, I think, is discouraging and Aenec should do a lot more in consistent, because the current generation is a very mobile generation. They are not stagnant in one place. It's not in those days that you can catch them on television. You've got to use all of the channels of communication to reach the people. Because if you look at Lagos, for example, Lagos has 1.6 million card uncollected. And there are not a category of people whose cards are not ready, but they do not have that information. So you see a lot of people coming in and they say, okay, your own card is not ready. Your card will be, so we need to know whose cards are ready and which batches are not ready, so that people do not go there, get discouraged. Some people whose cards are there now might have visited the place once or twice and they were told their cards were not ready there and they are no longer having the space of time to go and collect. Other people too have traveled because the time this collection started is close to the festive period. Many young people could have either traveled or relocated, or many voters have traveled out to their hometown. Some have gone for religious activities. Some have gone to a religious camp. I believe, hopefully, that as soon as the business activity starts next week, we'll see an upsurge of collection of these cards. I believe so. Okay, we are being joined finally by Mr. Phil Baddon, Co-ordinator and Founder of Kaduna PVC Hangout. Mr. Baddon, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, you are Co-ordinator and Founder of Kaduna PVC Hangout. Tell us the scenario playing out in Kaduna, for instance, regarding PVC collection and all. So, we have been, we are currently planning a PVC collection after, but for the collection in Kaduna State in general, it's really going on. We have experienced a few challenges because, like I said, we are trying to embark on a PVC collection drive because we've already done the PVC registration drive. And one of the challenges we encounter is that, is distance. A lot of people complain about the distance. You know, every local government has just one INEC office in the local government. And then one local government has about 12 wards. And it's that big and that large. And those 12 wards are, like, a long distance apart from the center where the INEC office is. So, we've been trying to find ways to mitigate, because that has been like primary, primary challenge for people collecting their PVCs. And we also, we also try to mitigate that. And we also got an information, actually, that the INEC office are going to be sending the cards, the ready start. Oh, we seem to have lost the audio. Distance challenge. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Bidong. All right, all right. So, I said that would ease the, distributing the cards to different wards would ease the distance challenge that a lot of people have been complaining about. But yet still, if that can be achieved, we are going to know that it's going to commence next week, between next week, we are going to do that. So, if that can be achieved, it can go a long way to enable people to get their PVCs, because a lot of people are busy, a lot of people work, and the INEC office has staff as well. And the staff work, the staff have their working hours. And their working hours is almost the same, for the same time, with the working hours of the people that want to collect their cards. So, if they can share this card to the different wards, it brings the collection closer to the people. And I feel like that will enable an easier access of collection for the PVCs. But generally, I will say the same challenge everywhere. A lot of people are reluctant, but we just keep pushing and sending out the message as much as we can for people to get their water started. Okay, let me go to where I should have gone first anyway. Caduna PVC Hangout. What does that really mean? What do you do? Well, let me finish the interview and go. Caduna PVC Hangout. Basically, what we did was we did something that we are my friends, we came to Canada to do. We saw something like going on in daygalls and play two states at the time. So, I just made a tweet, and I'm like, oh, we should do something like this in Caduna. And I told one of my friends, Ayobami Bologna, and we came up with a strategy, and we came up with an idea. And then we put it out on socials that we are looking for team members, we are looking for volunteers actually. And then we got volunteers. We did the best outreach. And then along the line, we got donations from individuals and organizations. And then we partnered with the global shippers organization, the Caduna branch, the Caduna Shippers Hub, and we partnered with them and we continued. Overall, we had about 30 locations, went to different locations, went to about 30 different locations. And in total, individually and collectively as a team or as a group, we were able to attend to about 5,000 people in Caduna states. And so what we're doing, we're doing pre-registration. We were doing transfer and updates of information, change of pooling units, all those things that could be done on the INEC website. And then we created both SMSs to follow up to people and ensure that they see through to the biometric process. And then on one or two occasions, we were able to work with INEC officials and we brought them to a certain location to do the biometrics capturing for them. And since then, we have, after the registration was over, we have not really done anything until now that we are planning the PVC collection right. Okay. Mr. Akatuwa, let me come to you. If you're there, you said the process is a little bit tiring as it is. You needed a lot of patients to do what you need to do. And you talked about information. If you were to advise the INEC, what things do you think they could do from now to 22nd of January where the PVC collection will be ending to make the process more seamless than what you found yourself and other people in Lagos and beyond find themselves? Well, my first advice is voter education. They must step up. They must use various languages. They must use all the channels that can be utilized. If they didn't have the budget, they've got to look for that money because you can't really mobilize people. They are not well informed about what you're doing. Because if the time that I went to the INEC office to pick at the Ikeja local government head office, if they informed me that they have moved the address, the location, they moved to their own site at the GRE, I'm sure the time and the resources I spent to go there would have been saved. And then the annoyance, my having to travel to a new area would have been completely eliminated. And I would have gone there with a more relaxed mind to be able to wait for them. So this type of annoyance and lack of public information and mass mobilization can affect even the collection of the PVTs. For example, during the registration, some people did their capture in a different local government other than where they reside. I think because of the ability to register online. A lot of people were registered while they were in the marketplace or somewhere in the Ikeja, whereas they live around a limo shop. And I saw people who came there and they were told that their collection center is at a limo shop. It was really annoying and discouraging to them. In fact, as usual, they express their anger the way the common, the ordinary Nigerians would show disappointment and blame INEC for inefficiency. But I saw the cost of lack of information. On the other hand, in terms of the internal processes, I do not see much that they can do. The only thing they can do is to increase the number of people that attend those who come to collect the cards. But do they have the budget for this? It's another matter. So you see, my advice is if they can look for some more ad hoc staff so that the process of collection will be a bit seamless and those who can come there spend one hour, two hours, or less than one hour, they picked up their card. It will encourage more people because some people now are looking for the right time, the auspicious time to be able to go because of the experience of what they have for all those who have gone there to collect. I think that day I spent about two to three hours, which I think was too much for the collection of the PVC. Because at the end of the day, if you don't collect it because of two hours, the regret might be more than two hours or two years or two tenors. So I hope it is what's it. I'll come back to you, Mr. Akatuba, for one final question. But let me go to Mr. Badong right now, Phil. When you talk about this, your organization, the Kaduna PVC Hangout and what you do, you interact a lot with the people who are supposed to collect the PVCs, who are supposed to vote, and who are supposed to do the needful to make sure we install whoever we want as individuals or as citizens come February 25. But what is your level of interaction with INAG like? How do you relate with INAG to make your job and their job a little bit easier? Okay. I personally, I had to get in touch with someone that works in INAG because at the beginning, I think one of our first two or three out switches, we had a breach of communication. So I had to get a direct contact because as I did, we're working on the MCMC, someone would come and see who they see that INAG is doing this or they see that INAG is doing that, and then people were misinformed. So eventually, we got, I have about two or three INAG staff on speed dial and a couple of my team members have INAG staff, INAG staff, sorry, INAG staff, sorry, that are on their, that they are in contact with. So basically, we just reach out to them to establish the perfect information, you know, to understand what people are supposed to do and how we can help them do it. And fortunately for us, or luckily for us, we got recommended, we got recommended by INAG staff to say that they need their work easier because we're passing on information to people. A lot of times, someone might come in and their PVC is probably misplaced and they will now want to apply for a new one. Meanwhile, you can just apply for loss or damage on the website. So when you apply for a new PVC, there was going to be an issue when you go for a biometrics because your biometrics have been captured before. So that is just an example of a couple of the other challenges that we experienced during the PVC outreach that we had. We're still here and talking about the low turnout of people to collect PVCs and the low collection generally of PVCs because as I said yesterday, it was still in the news that 6.7 million PVCs have not been collected. And how do we go into an election, especially in an election that the bulk of the people that have registered do not even vote? But now that people seem to be more aware and more excited, what is happening to the collection of the PVCs? We're trying to see if there are challenges and if they can also be corrected. We've been talking with Mr. Theo Philos Akatuba, a media consultant and public affairs analyst, and also with Mr. Phil Badun, coordinator and founder of Kaduna PVC Hangout. Let me start with you, Mr. Phil, before I go to Mr. Akatuba, because we are going to digress a little bit, but still on iNEC and the election. Mr. Phil, what are your expectations for 2023 general election? Because you've been involved in these, I'm sure, not in the past but right now because of this election, in the next election you are so involved. What are your expectations of the 2023 election? Peaceful, good turnout, awareness, everything you want to talk about. To be honest, I have a lot of expectations, but at the same time I'm also aware of the fact that anything can happen. To be honest, I don't think this election might be all that peaceful, and that is just me, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything, but that's just me, from the reality of what we see present, it doesn't look like it's going to be a very peaceful election, because especially in the north, where there is a majority part in almost every northern state, and this is one of the first elections in recent times where we have three major political parties or three major contestants. Previously, it's always a battle between, most times for the presidential election, it's mostly a battle between the pardon me, it's mostly a battle between the APC and the PDP, and then this time around we have the Labour Party. So I really expect that people will turn out, especially youths and young people, people that are voting for the first time, because one of the things we encountered during the BBC hands-off was a lot of shock, because I mean it's understandable if someone who is 25 or below 30 is registering to vote for the first time, but when you meet people that are 30 plus in their 40s, approaching 50s, and you've not voted before, it's quite questionable and it's quite out of sight to an extent, but overall I feel like people are going to turn out, but we can't really say due to, because presently we're talking about low collection of PBCs, but hopefully in the next one or two weeks, we can or would try to be able to mitigate that. I feel like another way to mitigate it is if, because I know that for international states for example, the state governments gave a two-day break, a two-day break for state workers sometime last year for PBC registration, so I feel like if they can replicate that again for PBC collection this time around, and if it can be done in every other state, that would actually aid this PBC collection that we're talking about, but overall I think that yeah people will turn out, and I'm expecting they will turn out as well, and it will be very important if we have a peaceful election, but from the look of things in some regions, it might not be so peaceful, but overall it's just I expect, what are the things I will look forward to is resilience. Resilience because one thing I know a lot of people patrol with during election season is the challenges and the struggles of voting, sometimes you go under the sun for hours, suppose you stay two hours, you know I'm going home, you know, sometimes it can come the ad hoc staff will like sheep, you know, adjust, stay on a street file and who doesn't like I'm going home, so this time around I expect to see resilience, because already there is already a mindset among young people that whatever will happen, whatever may happen, anything, anyhow, when you have it's going to be, we are still going to ensure we vote at the end of the day, so if it takes you one hour, two hours, five hours, ten hours, sixty the whole day, I expect citizens to have resilience and just make sure that they get what they come to the polling units for. Okay, we will come back to you for, because you just finished almost with something of security, we'll come back to find out how it is and how it might affect the election next year, this year, sorry, but let me go to Mr. Khatuba, a little bit of digression here, on the news we have heard that some people went to court asking that the INEC chairman be sacked and not only should he be sacked, but he should be barred from holding any position for the next ten years, I just want to have what your take on that scenario is, how do you think or what do you think about it generally before we begin to feel about if the way to succeed, how it could have impacted the 2023 election? Yeah, it would have impacted it very negatively and immediately damaged the credibility of the election and then it might even have the effect of affecting the schedule of the election, therefore they would have thrown spanners in the works of the nation in its democratic journey, make no mistake even in God's kingdom, the influence of evil came upon Lucifer and he was able to take a stand against God, so we as a people must know that we have evil people in our midst who on a daily basis are screaming evil, in fact we have people that are evil personified and there's a lot of people with bloods in their hands and they are all part of us and they are all part of the democratic, some of them can even be contestants knowing full well now that they have they will lose, there are many people who are contesting who have no hope of winning and a majority of such people who do not have another motivation for contesting, we want to damage the electoral process so that their complete humiliation at the polls will not be recorded or will not happen, so we are grateful to the court for being smart because as it is right now if you can incapacitate the INEC chairman then you immediately you flew chains in the legs of INEC in his ability to conduct the election, so we I believe that we are maturing and our courts are becoming wiser if you remember if we've seen things like this in the past in various shapes and colors and as we make progress as a nation the bad ones we should be able to distance them from our national life, we are happy, I'm happy when I heard the news, I didn't even know you know you, we heard that there are people fifth columnists that are working against the elect, we've heard alarm by the CUP, is it coalition of political parties they have also raised alarm because various people are in various courts attempting to do something tricky and funny but smart judges are wise and they see that these are phantom allegations upon which an order cannot be granted and so I'm happy for Nigeria, I'm happy for the government whose image would be smeared if anything untoward happened to the electoral time table and schedule, Bwari would be blamed that his men have attempted to perpetuate him in office, there's so many things but we should be happy for our nation because the world is watching and they are taking note of how we are progressing and how we are moving. Watching and that gives us a lot of concern because a few days ago it was the central bank governor that people were attempting to even the DSS not just people but the DSS which is also an instrument of government was trying to get arrested that he was a financier of bandits and terrorists and all that and you know some people let's say had a theory that the governor of the central bank came up with policies that are biting very biting on the politicians and suddenly they found that he was sponsoring terrorists. Now the INAG chairman brought beavers and has refused to make beavers a second kind of option that it must happen that beavers will be used in the elections and suddenly they are found out that he did not declare his assets well. When the international community watches us, when they look at us, what will they think of Nigeria? It begs the question how politically mature or how patriotic a country or its people are by just finding faults in the instruments that are supposedly trying to make the policy better. How does that speak to our image outside? Any of such development does not promote the country. It makes the country look like a place that is not civilized, a place that you cannot relate with if you have many of such people in our system. But we must understand that there is no system and there is no country where there are no evil ones. What the good people do is to isolate them, expose them and treat them. You heard of the cryptocurrency collapse, the crypto exchange. You heard of bank fraud, even internationally. There is always going to be a wicked one in the midst of good people. The good ones must be consulted in ensuring that such bad people are removed. So the judge has seen through their mischief and has stopped them. The same thing with the DSS. The DSS is being used by the enemies in our midst also. They have seen that this attempt by the CBN governor to change the currency and us also restrict and place a cap on the amount of cash that can be available. Politicians who have never won election will never be happy. Because they know that every victory they have had have been bought and they believe the future is available for them to keep buying. That's the reason they have massed the wealth, they have massed in the first place to distort the outcome of election in their favor. So they went all out to get the CBN governor with phantom accusation because the DSS must investigate allegations, especially when it comes to national security. So they would have cooked up all the stories and presented this before the DSS. And the DSS, as usual, would want to do his job. Thank God again, a court has stopped the DSS because they can see through the maze. So let us, I believe that this is dangerous, not good for our image, but we continue to fight until even the international community we know that this country is making a lot of effort to weed out the wicked ones in their midst. If that is consistent, the confidence of the international community will grow again, will improve in favor of Nigeria. I like that. I like that. What is intended to be something to dampen our image or to spoil our image, to dampen our spirit, will now turn out to be good. I like the way you put it. But Phil, let me come to you. Another worrisome thing when we are thinking about the 2023 election is security. And Kaduna is one of these places that is so volatile. And you made mention of security maybe being an impediment in the 2023 election. Walk us through the security situation right now in Kaduna and how you think that will lead to 2023 general election, how it can impact on the 2023 general election if it is, or it will remain in this way at that time. All right. For the insecurities in Kaduna state, it's a very contextually nuanced conversation because we have the Kaduna central, we have the Kaduna north, and we have the southern Kaduna. And the insecurities majorly have been tilted towards the southern Kaduna, and it's left out of Kaduna central and Kaduna north. So for the southern part of Kaduna, honestly, from the look of things, insecurity is going to pose a major threat to elections. And it's terrible because I don't even think the media is reporting it as much as it is, because now Kaduna central is surrounded with IDP camps. There are a lot of IDP camps because people are being displaced from their homes. If we had a lot of mass burials even in my village because I'm from southern Kaduna as well, but beside that, Kaduna central, we've had a lot of mass burials, mass train walls. It's crazy, honestly, I wouldn't lie. And it's going to really take a lot for elections to actually hold in those areas because for peaceful elections to hold in those areas because as of now, it's like it's somewhat like an ethnic cleansing. And a lot of people have been displaced from their homes. And I don't even think any staff, many of them, the ethnic ethnic staff would pray or would want to go get to work because it's a very volatile environment. So it's a lot, honestly, it's not something I can say much about, but the security situation in Kaduna state as of now, is very terrible because even in the city, the Kaduna central, obviously we do not have bandits, but kidnappings and robberies and all still thrives in some areas. And it's really crazy, honestly. It's a lot. Okay, but is there something because from now, today's fifth, we have like 45 days or more or so, we have a more than a month to the election. Are there some things that can be done between now and then to improve the security situation? Honestly, I feel like if anything can be done, it's going to be, it's going to take a lot of work. So it can start and hope to finish before then. Because I mean like the military bases have been attacked, it's almost like nowhere is safe on that side of town. So it's going to take a lot. However, I feel like if we employ, if the state governments can employ security agencies, that will go a long way. That will really, really go a long way because they can help curb the insecurities. And it's not just even employing them or deploying them to those areas, but it's to equip them. I mean, you could see, I don't know if you've got to see that, but last attack, one of the recent attacks at Kaguru in Colorado government of Cardinal States, when you see the bullet shells that were left after the attack, you could see that these people have very sophisticated weapons. So it's not just about deploying security officers, but then to equip them to be able to fight back in case of compensation with the terrorists. So that aside, I don't think there is anything that can be more than that because people have taken all the safety precautions, all the safety measures that you can take as a human being. But then there is just so much that we can do in a large state. So that would be the solution on this. Okay, Mr. Akatsuga, let me come to you for just the final thing. Your projections for 2023, because of these PVC collection and all the other things that are surrounding this election of 2023, what are your projections like? Where will it go to? Who will have the most votes? And who do you think it might favor in these situations? And then you throw in also a word of advice to Nigerians who are waiting patiently for 2023, just to wrap up. Well, it would be difficult to say who it will favor. But what I can say is because of the fact that there are uncollected PVCs in some very large number like 6.7 million, the question is which of these political parties will this be disadvantaged? And are they doing enough of mobilizing their people? And so we do not know exactly how that will play out. But as it is, if you look at the collection of the not in metropolitan areas, areas like Lagos, Abuja and many centers, I've just lost my electricity. I hope I'm still able to be seen. It's fine. Yeah. So in many areas, I am suspecting that Peter Albiz seems to be trending in metropolitan areas. And it appears that not collection of PVC is higher in these areas. If any obedient is listening, this is the time to get busy to ask more of the people in the urban areas who are a lot more obedient in my assessment. Then, but in the rural areas in far north, there's a high number of collection. If you look at the records that have been presented in Southwest, there's too many people not on your state is having 700 uncollected PVCs. But the consolation is this, a lot of the PVCs that are not being collected are old PVCs from 2019. That means many voters at that time, when they were not, a lot of those people are not real voters. They were double, I don't know whether they were double or they were people that were box or ferried into register with the hope of coming to vote in voting time. I do not know what they are, but a lot of the many of the new registrations, they are collecting their PVCs. They are anxious to collect, but you will still have a backlog of those old registrations. So for me, I will always say that people should be vigilant and that people should make sure they get involved, they vote, but I will not be able to say on television who I think it will favor. All right, thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Akatuwa. Well, gentlemen, it's been a pleasure having you to talk about this and we hope Nigeria will go higher and higher and not go back to the olden days. Thank you to you, Mr. Phil Badong, the coordinator and founder of Kaduna PVC Hangout. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you very much. Pleasure. And Mr. Theofilo Zakatuwa, media consultant and public affairs analyst. Thank you so much for being a part of the show. It's been a pleasure being with you, Yango. Take care. Okay, we'll go now and take the news and then when we return we just say our goodbyes and that'll be it. Stay with us.