 Entrepreneurship Tuesday. We are all about matters, business and economic growth as well. And we have an interesting guest who is live with us in the studio. But first things first, you can interact with us on our social media. And that includes Facebook, Instagram and on Twitter as well is at Y244Channel. You can find us on the hashtag Y in the morning. And by the way, we are available on DSTV, GoTV, literally all TV distribution platforms as Y244Channel. And we also got a TikTok channel as well at Y244Channel and personally at Brian Sokwa 101, including everywhere else on social media. Now, the topic that we're about to delve into is a very interesting topic. If you are an interested person, just move close to your TV with a pen and paper because they're going to talk about cross-border trade. What exactly is it? And none other than to talk about this is the president of the... She's the president of DSC to Kenya Chamber of Commerce, Christine Miner. She is live with us in studio. Good morning, Christine. Good morning, Brian. Right, you're welcome. How are you feeling this morning? Good, good. The weather is cool. Yes. And thank you for having me. You're welcome. It was raining cats and dogs, they say. Yes. But now let's get to know you a little bit. How did you get here? Because I'm looking at it. You know, when you say a president, you know, it means you're a civic and this is a position of leadership. Now, just talk about a little bit of your journey and how you got to be the president of DRC to Kenya Chamber of Commerce. Yes. So first, I'm going to explain the DRC Kenya Chamber of Commerce is would say a platform or an organization that is advocating for bilateral trade between Kenya and the DRC. So the reason why it was founded in 2021, it's been two years so far, was because we saw that there was a gap between the trade that the rest of East African countries are doing with DRC and Kenya. And so there was the need of educating people and just sensitizing the business community that there is opportunity in DRC and vice versa. Sensitizing the Congolese that they should look at Kenya as a market and also the potential that is also in Kenya for the Congolese market. Right. But my journey as an entrepreneur, because I am an entrepreneur, started when I was just 21. I launched my first business in South Sudan and it was actually a manufacturing business. I was very young and it was quite risky but I had the opportunity in this country. I remember we had a small juice business with my mom and the business was not doing so well here. The competition in Kenya was very high. And so someone told me, why don't you take your business to South Sudan? The country is very hot and I think your juice would do very well there. Right. And believe it or not, I reached out to one of my friends who was there. I got a little bit of capital. I think it was $400 a ticket and I went with my goods and my raw materials to make juice in South Sudan. Right. And that's where my journey started. Right. And it went well but I had to progress into soap making business. Right. So this was now at 22 years. Right. I had my own employees and then moved on to starting a marketing and PR firm. Right. In South Sudan. Where I was for about five to six years. And so my move now, when I was in South Sudan, I was part of the Kenya Business Association in South Sudan. Right. The Association of Kenyans in South Sudan. Right. I used to assist Kenyans a lot when it came to issues like when some people are arrested or issues to do with burial or just Kenyans who want to invest in South Sudan and they want to find their way around the government offices. So I was part of the Association leadership and also welcoming the politicians and the leaders from Kenya who'd come to South Sudan and tell them what our issues were, liaising with the embassy. And so when I moved, when there was issues in South Sudan and moved business to DRC, I continued to do the same. Right. So my passion was to really assist and sensitize Kenyans on the opportunities across our border. Right. Because I believe that our people are very industrious, very hardworking. And so I believe that the opportunities for Kenyans across the border. Right. And so that is why I continued in DRC and did the same by launching the Chamber of Commerce. Right. And of course leading it, yes. Right. Interesting journey. I feel like you weren't as a person selling juice and now you are rushed to, you know, this throne that you have right now being the president. Now, just to back it a little bit. Initially before you went that direction, you mentioned that you did marketing. Like how did you lose off an edge out of that to this? So I, well, I did, you know, this is what happens, I think, with business people. Right. We do move a lot with the demand in the market. So you move from one product to another or a service to another based on the demand that's already there. And that's my business journey, basically. And so I moved from PR and marketing, not because I wanted to actually, but because the war that started in South Sudan. So a lot of people left. There was an exit of a lot of businesses. Right. And, you know, during that period of exiting, you don't know what to, that's when I just moved business to DRC. I was also doing logistics. So when I moved to DRC, I didn't move with the marketing and PR firm. I just moved with the logistics. I had been in contact with the DRC markets when I was still in South Sudan. So it was just natural for me to continue as we wait for the issues in South Sudan to settle. So when I was in DRC is when I noticed that first of all, they want many Kenyans and especially in the areas of Kinshasa. I would imagine maybe it's because of the language barrier and also a lot of people do not know the opportunities that are there. Because they speak French? Yes. The language barrier, they speak French and Lingala. Right. However, I always say that language barrier... But you're conversant with that as well? Yes. But now you can speak Lingala and French? Not Lingala, but French, intermediary French, yes. A little bit of French. But I always say that language should not be a barrier because when I went there for the first five, six, seven years, I wasn't speaking French and I was still able to do business. And so by noticing that there wasn't many Kenyans and you would notice that there are so many Chinese and Indians and Lebanese, just people from all over. And also Uganda, you get into supermarkets, you find Ugandan goods, but you just don't find any Kenyan products anywhere or just Kenyans basically trading. So that's the push that causes us to come together with the officials on that side and decide to promote trade between Kenyans and DRC through the chamber. Wow, interesting. Yes. I know what to ask. What are some of maybe the achievements that you managed to bug, not only just for yourself, that you'd say even when you have a chance again to meet the current president, that you'd say maybe, yes, I achieved this but I think the government should come in and at least do extra. What are some of them? So apart from assisting individual business people to set up in DRC, just assisting them to get through the legal requirements, educating them on the culture differences between our country and DRC. We've been able to do a lot of sensitization in Kenya through several events. We were able to do an agribusiness conference. The very first, I should say, conference with the DRC government in Kenya to ever be done. So we did that last year. The agribusiness conference was a success and we were able to secure tracts of land for several Kenyan investors to do agro production in DRC. We were also able to launch something called the Micro and Small Enterprise package for the chamber. I am a strong believer that cross-border trade is not just for the big weeks. It's not just for the big banks and the big corporations because I went across the border with my small juice business. So I'm very passionate with assisting the Micro and Small Enterprise community to also think about crossing the border with their trade. So we did a successful launch of the Micro and Small Enterprise package. This next week, we're actually launching an ad network platform. We've been able to get data for 12 million Congolese, a market of 12 million Congolese. That's a huge number. It's like half of the population. Yes, so we have access to 12 million Congolese online. And through our ad network, which we are launching in the next one or two weeks, our Micro and Small Enterprise will be able to access the market of 12 million people. Through our website, it's going to be a self-service advertising platform that is very, very affordable and very well customized based on the products and the services that our business people are going to be advertising. So the idea of that Congo is so far and we always have to come and maybe connect you with someone physically. You just get on the platform, put your products and your services and you're able to access the market in the DRC. And of course, vice versa for the Congolese who are in Kenya. Something else we've also been able to do. There's a lot, but I'll say this finally. We've been able to secure scholarships through the Commonwealth of Learning, through P4CDA. We've been able to secure 200 scholarships for online courses in about 10,000 courses online for the Congolese and the Kenyans, especially those who just left university who are looking to have extra skills so that they are more employable. So these are some of the things that we've been able to do as a Chamber. Well, fantastic. Great achievements right there because I'm looking at it also as well as from your background like how you started and here you are. Now, let's switch gears a little bit. For a person who's watching right now and they want to go that direction. Of course, these are two countries neighboring each other and now he is trade involved. Maybe what are some of the rules and the fundamentals and some of the basics that they need to be aware in terms of even trade and this includes even, I understand something like tax restraints can come up especially when it's between two countries that are trading. Of course, the constitution of that country and ours, these things they have to agree on. I understand also before it is kept, trade embargoes. I don't know if you met that as well. Well, like you realize Kenya, we can't do this but in Congo we can do this but then let's sit down and talk and have a conversation and then we can allow this to happen. So talk about that for a person who's watching right now. Yes, so and this is where like I think you had asked before where would we want assistance from government? I think our government has done a lot so far to allow trade to flow freely between the DRC and Kenya. Number one is that DRC joined its African community. So that was a very big step because once they join a lot of legal requirements are going to be a bit almost the same between the countries. Customs for goods are going to be unified but I would say that there are still a lot of issues or challenges between the two countries. Number one is that we do not share a border. So for us to trade with the DRC it means that the logistics costs would be higher than our neighboring countries. Number two would be of course the language barrier. And other things I would say like for example there are some products that we sell in Kenya like Mira and in DRC they consider it a drug. So just being able to discuss with the government and show them that this is not a drug, this is a product we sell in Kenya and we export and it is actually safe for consumption. Those are some of the issues that we always have to discuss and advocate with the government to allow the products in Kenya to be sold in DRC. But I would say that we especially the peace process that Kenya has been championing the Nairobi agreement and the Luanda agreement. It's come a long way in making sure that there is peace in the eastern side of DRC because Kenya trades a lot more with the eastern side of DRC. Why? Because it's closer and also because they speak Swahili. And so just the step that the East African community has taken to enable peace in the eastern part of DRC is also very encouraging for the business community. And we're hoping that with the strides they've taken that we're going to see a peaceful DRC because DRC is open for business and then there's going to be confidence in people again to trade with the country. But let me just say like I always say that DRC is a safe country and the issues that are there are mostly on the eastern side. So there is another whole part of the country that you can actually safely trade and that's why we advise people at the chamber. Before you come to us, let us advise you based on the product and the service that you want to take to the country which are the best areas for it. So that you don't waste a lot of time doing your market research only to end up with information that we already had for you. So it could be something that we believe in Goma it would do well. It would probably do well in Kinshasa or in Lumumbashi. So these are the kind of advice that we are able to give. What are the places that are high security, the security is not so good and which are the places that are safe. But so far the government has been very helpful. I think apart from just unifying the common market between DRC and East Africa once we are able to see that and there is no visa policy. Does it still apply? Has it been approved? Not yet. I think it's still in the works. But so far Kenyans can get visa on arrival or you can just get the visa at the DRC Embassy in Kenya before traveling there. Yes. From what I hear you saying is that there's a lot of opportunities in there. Yes. And what if when it comes to mentorship especially young people that have dreams of being like you in Lumumbashi or Goma like you mentioned there may be platforms that they can access right here in Kenya or just in case they're on the other side as well. And there's a place where you mentioned the Kenyan Embassy partnering with also the Kenyan Embassy in DRC and also vice versa as well. Yes. So far our plans for the youth have started with us with the scholarship program that we've started with. We're in partnership with a consulting firm in the DRC that does mentorship for the youth. And so the first step was to offer the scholarships because we found that that was the need that they have most to be skilled and be able to be ready for the job market. However we do work closely like I said with the Kenyan Embassy in DRC whenever we need any assistance or whenever we are stuck or there are challenges we definitely contact our Embassy in DRC and whenever we also have like the events we had here in Kenya where we had the delegation from the DRC come for the Agri-Business Conference we leased with the DRC Embassy in Kenya and so we work closely with both embassies to make sure that their solutions and that the challenges are met. Right. Interesting. Do you guys have things like trade fairs and expos that foster let's say culture exchange? There's a place where you mentioned how's the culture in DRC and what's the culture in Kenya? Can they interact and can we come up with something special? Have you conducted that so far that has enabled trade between both sides? Yes. So we were part of the trade mission that was done by equity and the DRC and Kenyan government in 2021. Right. And it was a successful trade mission of about 300 Kenyan business people that traveled to Kinshasa, Lumumbashi, Goma and Bujimai. So that was one of the trade missions we were part of. So we've not had our own but we've been working in partnership with other organizations that are holding trade missions and sensitize the business communities of the trade missions that are in existence. We were also part of another trade mission last year but the trade mission was between really the rest of Africa and DRC. So we were also in partnership with an organization that held a trade mission last year in June. However, our plan really is to actually customize business trade fairs or business missions, let me call them business missions for smaller groups because we find that when it's a trade mission for a bigger group people feel that their needs have not been met or it was really generalized. So what we are doing is we are organizing business missions that are specific to the sectors for our business community in Kenya and in DRC. So if it's hospitality, we do a small mission for a few people for hospitality, if it's ICT and all the other sectors. Right, interesting. And what are some of the, let's say tips, you had shared that in one of your description what are some of the tips for the youth maybe? And also women, you know, there's something called FLEM, female-led and made enterprises that is to support the women, what are some of the tips that you'd give for people, especially like general now, you can just give general. But also if you want to narrow it down to the women that would want to venture into cross-border trade. Number one, I'd say first of all, just be confident. Be confident and be ready to take the risk. So that's the first step. And second, don't be in a rush to, you know, you hear that places like DRC have potential and I think a lot of people think I'm just going to go there and become a millionaire instantly. But there are certain disciplines to any business, whether it's in Kenya or you're crossing the border. Secondly, don't cut corners. I always say do not cut corners. So it doesn't matter who tells you, I'll find this for you in an easy way. You don't have to do this. You don't have to, you know, you don't have to go through the registration process as they tell you. Yes, I always say don't cut corners because it will come back and bite you. So just follow the due process. Be patient and as long as you have guidance and that is why the DRC, Kenya Chamber of Commerce is in existence, as long as you have guidance of people who know the market and understand the market and the environment, then you'll be good to go. Also be very cautious of the culture. I think you find that a lot of people, probably your business is doing so well here. You know you're known and you're famous and people love your product. And then you cross the border and no one really knows you exist and you have to humble yourself and pick up from scratch. So be ready to do that. Be ready to be patient with people because you're talking about people from different cultures. Alright, interesting. And maybe just briefly I had forgotten I must ask this. For a person who wants to export and import products from both sides, is there maybe like a process or is there a portal? How much do they have to go to the embassy as well? This platform that you've created will enable them to do that seamlessly. Yes, exactly. So the platform we've created is actually to cater for that which has been a challenge. Number one, getting the market and number two, getting your goods across the border. So when we launch the ad network, the platform on our website, then the market will be able to access either markets through our platform. And movement of goods between the countries is really not an issue actually. It's never been an issue. It's just that people need to be guided on which areas they should focus on. Alright, my director tells me we are past our time like already five minutes. So I'd just like to advise anyone who's passionate about what you do and they have dreams and ambitions to make you your ward to them and where people can find you. Do you have a social media platform, a portal, etc. In just less than a minute, this is your camera. Yes, so our social media platforms I'd say for the Chamber is our website is www.drckenyachamber.com We are also on Twitter and we are also on LinkedIn as DRC Kenya Chamber. I myself am also on Twitter and I'm also on LinkedIn as Christine Minor on both platforms. Alright, I know you can't give your number but it's alright. You're comfortable? Once I go to the website, there's a number that you can contact, yes. Alright, interesting. Thank you so much. You have been speaking to Christine Minor. She's the president for DRC Kenya Chamber of Commerce telling us just a quick scoundrel of what happens right then. Definitely, if you're watching right now you've learned one, two, three things that will help you go in that direction and as well she has left her details. If you're interested, please go there right now and interact with her and contact her. On this note, we're going to take a very short break. We are coming back next with the rest of the programming. Kalami Val is up next. So stick around for that conversation at 224 for the channel. I'm Brian Soko101. The hashtag is still Y in the morning. Stick around.