 Well, it's great to be here and it's really wonderful to be in an organization and a gathering of open source people of this size and scope and diversity and to see how the promise of open source is really coming of age You know when we started long ago open source was not mainstream it was really odd and unusual and something really quite unlikely to succeed and so it's really gratifying to come to an organization like this and see all sorts of people who are interested that Should have gone backwards one on the slide there There we go This just sends a signal to move the slide. I don't actually have control of them So so it is really great to be here because not only is open source interesting for software development But many of the principles that underpin it Are important for the larger questions of the maker ethic and internet freedom when I say freedom I don't mean politics. I don't mean Democrats. I don't mean Republicans. I don't mean whatever type of Government we happen to live in what I mean is that our relationship to my life How much control do I have how much control does somebody else have can I make my life? Am I the person determining what happens or do things come to me and I consume them or not and so What I want to talk about today is some about open source some about this larger question of making our own lives a bit about what Mozilla is thinking about on online life and how we can tie all of these things together and To start with I want to use a description of the web That's not technology focused not about linking not about user interfaces, but when we At Mozilla think about what is the web? This is a description of it that I find particularly useful at the web Building blocks for creating our life online not just consuming not just experiencing but creating and And Building blocks can of course be open, you know or or they can be quite closed the web over the past few years Well say over the last decade has been extremely open built on the same principles as open source built with open source software at its Most basic layers and on those principles those principles being decentralization The ability to act without permission The ability to innovate to build a business the ability to plug your work into a larger framework Without needing a centralized authority to ask for permission combined with the open source ways of working of merit and peer review and community organization and leadership So these kinds of open building blocks are Important because those are the things that allow us to move from consumption to creation So consumption is great and one of the things that the web has done is provided free consumption Free as in beer sort of consumption And then there's a layer of the web that has also been free as in freedom, but The key to really owning your own life is being able to go beyond consumption when you want to When what you are offered to consume whether it's free or not Doesn't meet your needs When you have a good idea when you want to innovate when you want to try something when you want to do something new When you want to solve a problem and so to do that is to move to the creation layer and That ability to choose when you want to but to be able to create and thus to participate in building life That's a precursor to the kind of freedom. I'm talking about and I'll say once again. I don't mean politics here I mean how much control do we have over our own lives? And so at at Mozilla and the organization and the communities that we're building that's what we're trying to do We're trying to build open building blocks into as many layers of digital life as we can And so that's what I want to spend most of the time talking about But before I do that, I thought it would be useful to step back and talk briefly about Mozilla Because most people know us for Firefox that's true, but it's not the whole picture and many people When they look further, I think they're confused with organizations and companies and all the legal things that surround Mozilla So I want to stop first and just talk about what we are the core of Mozilla. You'll see it's a very simple slide because I It's a simple idea and I think it's more important to get that across than to have something I'm proud of as a slide So the Mozilla mission is at the heart of what we do and that is the mission about building individual control and Freedom into the fabric of the internet to build open source Open technologies individual empowerment the ability to innovate the ability to try something new the ability to understand What's going on Into the internet We do this in a couple ways right now the biggest of course is our consumer products work That's where Firefox fits Thunderbird has been there for a long time We have a range of new initiatives but that consumer products group is enormous and of course we've been More successful than we could have hoped at bringing innovation and openness to this layer of the web this group Often gets confused with the core of Mozilla it gets identified as Mozilla Whereas the core of everything we do in the core of Firefox is the Mozilla mission With Firefox we generate revenue through Firefox and that that turns out to be a fair amount of money It's the basic search ads through search model that that runs much of the web That's been about a hundred or a hundred and ten million dollars a year for the last five six seven years Probably more in the next few years So that's a huge amount of money for an open source nonprofit organization On the other hand, it's a tiny amount of money compared to the market that we compete in That's an amount of money that Google or Facebook or Microsoft Or Apple will spend on an advertising campaign You know in a quarter or or pay as part of a tax bill somewhere and so when we Think about who we are and when people start to get to know Mozilla They find this dichotomy on the one hand That's a huge amount of money for the open source side on the other hand It's really small compared to what we're trying to do When non-profit Advocates come talk to Mozilla at the product group people walk away thinking wow that they're really technology people They are really product people. I don't know how to interact with them. They don't speak the language of legislation or advocacy Or when I talk about an idea that's really important to me what I get back is technology On the other hand in the valley where we live Many of the businesses find us confusing because we don't talk about money and long-term return on investment and shareholder value In financial terms and so the business side finds us a little bit confusing because we talk about mission and the mission side Or the advocacy or the policy folks find us confusing because we talk about product But that is the core of Mozilla is trying to build products that reflect the overall mission so that the products we put out there should reflect the kind of internet that we want and We're certainly not alone in doing this and and that's actually why it's such a treat to be here with you As well as the consumer products. We have another set of initiatives called web makers And and that is the idea that the ways of thinking we're accustomed to an open source are Applicable to other parts of life as well So that if you're not a developer or you're not interested in building Drupal or Firefox or Apache libraries But you are interested in the kinds of openness and innovation in other aspects of online life We have a program to try and help those communities learn more about Technology get involved and actually experience what open source thinking is And I'll talk about a few of those as I go through the initiatives as well And so those two great things make up Mozilla Maybe in the future we'll have a third great kind of initiative, but but right now This is what we're doing So when you hear people talk about Mozilla, sometimes they'll talk about the foundation or the foundation projects mostly the web makers side sometimes they'll talk about the Mozilla corporation and By that they mean the consumer product side, you know, I I encourage you not to think too much About Mozilla in those terms for us. We're about the mission. We actually have an extremely complex legal structure We we have about five or six hundred employees worldwide now That's very hard to do to actually hire people you need an Organization in a country and so we have lots of different legal organizations and mostly they're about how can we legally hire and pay Someone in an organization or if we have a community group and we want to be able to Spend money to have a gathering we have lots of small gatherings around the world How do we actually do that legally and efficiently so so we have a lot of legal things and and I think of our legal structure as The work around where it's the legal system is the programming language that we use to set up our Organizations and it actually doesn't work very well for us for an organization that is mission driven and trying to compete in the market To move our mission forward the legal structure doesn't work well the nonprofit structure doesn't work very well So we so we have one, you know We have a legal structure, but it really isn't the core of what we are and so that's why you don't see anything about legal structures here And I could talk forever about them, but but they're really not important to the core of what we are They're just the system for how we try to do it okay so Now I want to talk some about the kinds of building blocks open web building blocks That we're thinking about to build openness and innovation and freedom into internet life So the first one, I've used some handles here CSS JavaScript HTML by this I mean the web as we've understood it for the last five or ten years So Mozilla lives here Apache lives here Drupal lives here What what's the core set of web capabilities that deliver content and web experiences to people now? We've I think we've as an open source and floss community has been very successful at this layer by the time you take a patchy and Mozilla and Drupal and WordPress and you add them all together You know we have a pretty good foothold in this layer and much of the innovation for developer libraries comes through Apache Much of the innovation on the client side has come through Mozilla for a long time the Drupal organization is growing The sorts of things that are happening. This is a layer where we've brought competition and brought openness into it So there's much more work to be done here, but we understand it and we've been pretty successful now, of course There's a lot of areas that are new mobile is one obvious area and the question of how do you collaborate and publish or interact or live your life or find the people you know or do things on mobile devices is Unformed I mean we have a model right now. It's a closed model and it's a beautiful and elegant model. We have Particularly in the Apple stack very elegant consumption Probably more elegant consumption than we've ever seen in in online life yet, but it is an integrated stack It's kind of highly centralized and of course many of the other players are trying to do the same thing The Google stack is increasingly integrated Microsoft has been very clear that their mobile stack will follow the Apple model You know more and more we see hardware tied to software tied to store tied to data So that once you get into an environment You're there and that is developers in that environment You need to live within the rules and get permission and be approved and you can develop in the areas that are permitted to You but if you go outside the approved scope You know you don't fit into the business plan and so things aren't so easy for you And so this is an area that we're thinking Really as much as we can about how to make some changes here and so we have an offering for the mobile space and that the point of this slide is not the Firefox logo the point of this slide is the Web is the platform because when we look at the mobile arena and we say wow every big player out there is building a tightly integrated stack Some more open than others Google's got more openness maybe that than Apple, but they're all very tightly integrated They're all got a set of services that come from a single vendor and you know you step in once in there You are what could compete with that well not Mozilla We can't compete with that But the web can the web is already a platform It's a platform with hundreds of thousands of developers. It's a platform with I don't even know how many web apps It's a platform with technologies and knowledge and reach and it is cross platform It is can be cross-device as well. And so for the mobile space Our working principle as always is the web is the platform and the web that is all of us Can compete effectively and provide a rich user experience as an alternative to users to closed platforms Sorry We're not trying to win or dominate or take the place of any closed stack. We're trying to provide an alternative and so This is the Set up from Mobile World Congress, which was where we first took this concept of the web as a platform for mobile devices Out into the industry to see the response, which was very effective and This is a prototype of a phone built with the web This has the codename boot to gecko or B2g if you're in the development groups We call it as a category open web devices And what what you're looking at is the kernel from Android. So a Linux kernel not Android It's not an Android phone. It's the Linux kernel So it touches the hardware and has the drivers that we're familiar with and the web on top of it So everything you're looking at there from the user interface Not just the icons, but the apps that they represent is written in web technologies There's no Dalvik layer. There's no Java layer. There's no Apple layer There's no Microsoft layer. There's just the web and so It turns out You can do a lot more with the web than people have expected because the current platforms are using You know their technologies, but when you dive into the web, you can do a lot more with it And so I I was reluctant to rely on the internet In a gathering with connectivity and and do a demo here, but so I've put the slide here There are demos online. You might go take a look at it. We Have started working with Other organizations to do this so I put this picture up here because Telefonica is deeply involved when you get into the mobile space. It's not something we Alone can do it really it requires an ecosystem even to get started so the Firefox browser piece was a bit different for us and I imagine that the Drupal work is a little bit different because you can provide a product that makes sense and put it into market You know as your own organization as we did with Firefox, but on a mobile device. It's a lot harder Possible with the browser, but if you're talking about the whole stack It needs to go out on the hardware and so that means a lot more partnering and a lot more business relationships now But most people don't know is that Mozilla we have always done this and we came out of Netscape So we understand relationships with companies, but we haven't done as much of it in the last few years So it's new to a lot of Mozilla and it's a little bit different because the actual shipping of the product has to be Coordinated with handset makers and network operators And so this will be an interesting time in Mozilla as we take the open source ways of working And begin working more closely with more other organizations now. We've done this a few times in the past I personally am not too worried about it. We've had some very clear lines. You know our development work is always Done in an open source manner like we never changed that You have a bunch of marketing and product information, which is very confidential to you We've kept that sort of information confidential for a decade. We're very good at it there are some always some questions in the middle of Of those two extremes, which are Well, I'm concerned that these patches that I want to submit or these kinds of functionality will reveal too much about my secret product and you know, I don't want that out before the launch How do we manage that and so there is some engineering management in the middle to figure out Those kinds of questions. We've actually done that before so we have some experience at it But I'm pretty sure that as we go forward, you know, there'll be some bumps in the path about how to do this but You know everything that we do is new at one point and so sometimes I'll hear people say oh, you know Mozilla would never do that or an open source organization would never do that We've never done that and I'm always thinking well, that's true. We've never done it, but Everything that we know is something we had never done once, you know when when was it was first founded There was a very strong view that it was source code only Mozilla would never ever ever ship a binary So look what you know, we started shipping binaries and it changed changed the world So the things that we've never done are really important and and we'll start doing those and so as I say there's a bunch of boot to get go open web device Demo's prototypes and of course there's a source repository. So if you're interested in those things Go check them out. We'd love to have more involvement So that's the mobile side and I'll come back to that because it's woven through a bunch of things that we're thinking about But another one of course is video and we've had a video tag in the browser for a number of years It's only slowly coming of age And video is an area where people don't realize what's possible Until you see it that was true with the browser I find it's true with Drupal that when people describe what it could be in words Doesn't really resonate when you actually see in practice what can be done You know then it becomes clear so for many people video was a flash model, you know where you consumed it But video of the web is not like that. It can be extremely interactive and so We have a general project to take video and actually build the interactivity of the web Into the video production process so that if you're creating a video Why not at some particular time stamp have web resources available? Whether it's a Twitter tag or a hashtag or a set of photos or a set of video clips ways that a Person watching a video can start to get involved and find out more information and in this there is at least one Organization working on using Drupal as the back end to this video management system for Managing the assets that would go into such a video So I want to stop and think for a moment when we say video Most of us think flash, but when I say video I mean something executing at runtime in a web page like environment and so if you think about what's possible in a web page environment then it's easy to imagine the list of assets that could be available that The person watching and then interacting with the video could click on or otherwise indicate I want more information here. So right now our early models have been okay at this time in the video You know a tweet stream streams in and so you'll get real-time tweets You know you might have a billboard and you can see what people are actually saying executing in the web page That's pretty simple, but I think with this beginning of the integration with Drupal will move into a more sophisticated layer of how you have many different types of assets and how that those those assets can be brought to bear at Execution time at runtime in a quote web page, but that looks and feels like a video experience to the user so I've included here Both the the top link is the project that's working on this and it gives you some visuals of what that video would look like that are better than my words and also their github URL So there's a there's a video piece. So if you think about all of these things happening across devices one other piece that relates to innovation and identity and the ability to create is really identity who am I online and If I have multiple devices, how do I set up an account? How do I identify myself? I have to do it for every device Can I do it once? Do I want to use a social? Half, you know do I want to use Facebook or Google or do I want something else might I want another alternative? So when we look out at the world we think the Social Networking sites have a huge purpose. I mean we like them people use them But going forward it's increasingly likely that many of us will want an identity that we can use that is not tied To a particular social networking site or their business model or their plan And so one of the building blocks that we thought is important for the web is an identity piece And again, I didn't I didn't want to rely on a network connection So I have like a 90-second sort of description of what we're working on here Before we get to that. I will say there is a Drupal plugin for this Created by ice cream you I don't know if he or she is here So I'm gonna play this probably 90-second clip of what The first stage of our identity thinking is so identity is a big piece It really who am I and it could encompass a whole range of different? Activities our starting point is very simple very concrete point of pain for users and developers How do I log into a site? So for for users logging into a site is pretty awful, you know the list of names and passwords Goes on forever and either you forget them or you use the same one or use a terrible password You have a list of this somewhere or whatever it is at the other end. There's a very convenient Way of doing that you can use Facebook connect You know or Google but there's some problems there I as a person don't always want Facebook to be moderating my internet experience and then of course on the developer side it means that you can't actually build a website and hand it to your Client or customer and have it really be done that if you want to use a social networking Site or business or program as your login you have to go get Registered and approved and get the the keys and you know there's a bunch of things that you can't actually do in a decentralized fashion and so Our thinking has been how do we take identity as a whole but at first the login part and make it as easy as The centralized systems, but but keep it decentralized as well, and so this is probably about 90 seconds and Hi, I'm Dan from the identity team, and I'm going to give you a quick demo of our new product called persona It's a really easy way to sign into websites and web apps with just an email address Persona lets you sign in with just two clicks. Here's a site that uses persona When I click sign in our dialogue pops up It has my email addresses and all I have to do is choose one and click sign in and that's it. I'm done This is great for users. It's very easy It doesn't require a password for each site and it has suitability built in It's also good for the app our API, which is super easy to use by the way delivers a verified email address But unlike a traditional account with persona a new user can sign in even for the first time in a snap What about the very first time using persona though? New users type in their email address and have a verification email sent to them Users are used to this flow. They do it all the time But here's one place for persona is truly special because persona is a decentralized system It proposes a way for email providers to become identity providers directly by adding persona support One side effect of that is that it makes the first time flow as smooth as a returning users I'm going to send in to the same side again But this time I'm going to type an email address which is specially enhanced to integrate with our protocol I type in my email address and I click next and that's all I have to do Why? Because I'm already signed into my email provider for webmail users This is extremely common of course if you aren't signed into your email provider, though You still get a very smooth flow in that case. I'm prompted for my email provider password right in the dialogue I type it in and that's all Very cool, right? I hope you are as excited about this new technology as we are Mozilla plans to use persona for all its site Including the apps marketplace and has a way to sign into the browser itself to enable sync and other services plan to use persona across devices So we'll of course use it on the boot to get off the phones We believe that many of the business partners who would be interested in shipping a get go Put a get go phone also have an interest in an identity system And so we're thinking that this is the beginning of a way to identify myself across all devices so that when I have information or I've bought content that I can attach it to me not necessarily to a device So as I said, there is a Drupal plug-in for this I'm not we're not the Drupal experts So maybe you could take a look and see what you think of it And also of course if you try it and you try adding it to a website We're very interested in your experience. Is it easy what could be easier about it? Does it work? Well, does it meet the needs of you and your customers those sorts of things? So this is an important layer an important building block to an open web layer and it's also an area where I think at least from our point of view that you And the sites that you build could be extremely important So please do take a look and let us know what you think of it If you think it's good, that's great. If you think it's missing or not good That's also really really important for us to hear There is a social piece of course And I Left this in here, even though we're not actually really sure what that means yet There is something about being social online that today we live In a few social networking sites. I think over the long run That's probably not where we'll end up. But what that exactly looks like Not clear today, you know, we have some experiments But maybe somebody also figured out before us and then and then you know, we can follow You know, I put these things up here and they have a Mozilla name on them, but it's not important that Mozilla Be the leader or the winner in these things. It's important that they happen So we're looking at them and trying to show the promise and actually trying to make them happen If someone else with a similar mindset a good decentralized Innovative you know empowerment mindset finds a solution will be equally happy Another area looks like the slide That we've been working on our open web apps this ties very closely into the mobile strategy, of course Because because what we have now we have the web the stationery web or what everyone calls it with old style web apps web applications And then we have mobile with a different style of application and and the the apps the mobile apps are Clearly useful There's no question that most of us find them useful for a bunch of things But they don't reflect many of the great traits of the web and that they're not web-wide. They're often Manufacturers specific data gets locked up in them. So we have a Architecture and a system in a marketplace actually for open web apps and what these are our applications obviously built with web technologies, but also Tied to you So the idea would be if you have an identity that's you and not a device when you buy something You would get a receipt for it and you would take that receipt with you and any device you go to whether it's mine or your friends You know, I bought this application. Why can't I access it on the device? I'm using at the time and so the web apps initiative is To bring the things that people like about apps The lightweight ease of use. I feel like I own it. I have a nice easy way to get to it It's convenient and the development ease with some of the freedoms and Innovation that have been great about the web So that's an area where you'll see Combined with our own but to get go phones but also available on other devices The key to a real web app is that it should be available to you wherever you are not set on your device Another another really important area that we think about is what about those people who aren't Programmers or developers are living in the technology space. There's the web makers program And so through the video work that I described earlier, there's a bunch of filmmakers and Journalists who are getting involved in how to use open technologies How to take the openness of the things that we're building and use them in their work Then we've started in a few areas We've started with journalists and filmmakers because they tell stories and they reach many other people And that seems like a good way to take open technologies and demonstrate how Devices are more comfortable than pencil and paper And so what that generation will come up with and what kinds of open building blocks will need as a response to that To make life open. I don't think we know yet And so this is an area where there'll be a lot of change and it may be a little disconcerting You know even those of us who like change are sometimes surprised by how quickly it happens So these are some of the building blocks for keeping internet life open And how might we do that? Well one way is products We all ship products and they touch a lot of people the benefit to products Of course is that we can reach people Who aren't yet aware of why we do things like you're just using a website Or maybe some of the people using Drupal websites don't know yet or don't care so much about why or Why they're built in an open source fashion But we're still touching those people and as they use sites, you know can learn more about them So the products have two purposes one You know they reflect the open source values that they're built with At least that's how we build them and you do you know not every open source product is Is built to reflect those values, but but I think those of us that come from the nonprofit and community cores are So we continue to build product. That's a huge sort of lever that we have We also have of course Community and and this is something as projects grow really Take some work and effort, you know we've hired a lot of people at Mozilla and the description of what community means and the Helping people to understand what it's really like to work in a community. That's not all employment based is something new And of course on the other side the the people who are community members who have come to Mozilla separate from employment Whether or not they end up employed, but you know they have a relationship to Mozilla. That's different than employment That is in many ways the core of what we are. It's my belief that this is the Probably the fundamental tool for how we stay true To our ideals and our vision and our values Because what I've learned is in an employment setting, you know, you have a lot of tools and you know and management can Use a lot of tools to get the employee community to do things Whereas the volunteer community, that's not true You know somebody who's spending five or ten or fifteen or twenty hours a week Working on something because they believe in it and they are building the world. They want to live in It's very hard to get that person to be quiet when they're convinced you're doing the wrong thing Right because no salary. I mean there's there's a bunch of things And so I feel that the ability to employ people and build an organization that that has the kind of you know 60 70 how many hours a week it takes to get the stuff done is really important But the independent voices of people who are committed because they want the world we're aiming for is fundamental to staying true and so Melding that is really important and building new communities is important So we continue to work on our technology communities But I believe like the journalist community the filmmaker community the educational communities that we're working with today Over time will be more and more important in figuring out what are these open building blocks? And are we doing them well enough? Are we doing the right things? And so that's really exciting too because what we find is when we can express the ideals that underlie open-source and free software People respond to them the idea that the individual matters The idea that what you do is what determines your leadership the idea that merit matters The idea that you can actually go try something that you don't need some centralized person to ask permission The idea that people will help you you know that you can ask a question and people will respond The and the idea that you in turn respond back and that's what builds a community That is more powerful than we understand in modern life And so it's extremely gratifying both to see a group like you today And then to realize that the ideas that we've used to build our communities are so powerful even in other areas of endeavor of course there's technologies and I've added this in here because not everything shows up as a product and the core technology underlies it all But I probably won't say too much more about that Because the last thing I really want to talk about is outlook and that's really key it is this We'll call it the open-source way of thinking Combined with an acceptance of change But that's an outlook that Will allow us to create the building blocks that we need so part of that is open source but the other part is change and I've Learned that change is really not easy for people Even though we live in a technology environment and things change really quickly a Lot of people get very Comfortable with the way things are and particularly in a value setting so so at Mozilla. I hear regularly Oh, we can't do that. We've never done that Okay, but then it's oh we've never done that and it would be against our values to do that and very often My question is why why is that against our values? It's new But really just to say something new is against our values is a kind of comfortable convenient way of not exploring And so I think even in open source, you know, we need to challenge ourselves to say what's new Like the world is changing really fast the things that underlie open source and free software are very strong They're very flexible people respond to them. We can take those ideas and those values into the new world Let's hope so. I mean the new world is coming. We're not gonna stop it It's either here now or it's on the cusp But there's a lot of change in the world today And so we can take the things that draw us together into that new world We won't be successful though if we say oh we can't do something new we've never done it You know our values wouldn't allow us to do something different So that means there's a lot more thinking about well, what's really the core? What's the thing that we care about most and is something different? How do we do that in a way that expresses the values that we care about and so that I think is one of the big challenges for Any any established community and that includes us as we have something to offer We have our technologies. We have our products, but even beyond that We have a way of looking and thinking and relating to each other That has a value in the world today Starting from technology. It has value in other areas and so I would hope and encourage that that all of us Can probably spend most of our life building products and technology and doing what you know what we do every day It's sort of the day job, but that we all Find a time and an energy to look up and think about what drives us and what motivates us and what does open source actually mean and What does what kind of relationship to technology looks good in the world? How do we build a world that's not a big brother world, but has the richness and possibility we can imagine and then we challenge Ourselves to say okay, like am I in the way Somehow or other you know I'm building open source software, but I'm in the way because my mindset is that nothing can change Because that combination of what we know how to do what we're doing now Some vision about open building blocks for the future and an open and flexible Mindset to meet new people and make it happen in new ways. I think we'll build a better world than we're likely to see otherwise So thank you, and I think there's a question and answer session Karen is that right? Hey, so I've got some good ones for you Big question that got retweeted. It's probably the most is Persona looks a lot like a reinvention of open ID wheel. Why not work on making a better open ID? And that's comes from Scott Ryan. Yep So as we so we've been deeply involved in open ID and actually have a fair amount of discussions with the open ID group And so the more we looked at it. There were just a couple of issues that were difficult to get Difficult to improve enough that made us comfortable to say this is an ID system that's going to work across all devices and difficult enough to change in open ID and so Our discussions with open ID have been like, you know, do they actually work together? How can we move back and forth? And and do I have off hand? There's a good detailed description of it, but I probably won't go into it here, but we could find it Okay, I'll do that This one comes from Larry Garfield How much work is it to? Persona enable an email address or server and what providers are using it? Yeah, it should not be much work But really I think we would rely on you to tell us How much work it is? So the goal is that it is very simple I have had a set of people say to me. Yeah, it really is pretty simple It's a lot easier than open ID for example to set up and get working But then I've had a couple people say, you know, I had trouble with it so I The easy answer is it's easy, but You'd have to tell us but so I but although I would say if it is not easy and considerably easier than open ID then It's not done yet. That's for sure and Again from Larry Garfield. How can we move forward with the promise of video while the Kodak war is still unresolved? Yeah Yeah Well, my my my answer to that I think is that we have to be pragmatic You know, it's just I guess Monday where Mozilla, you know, we We started talking about using the Kodaks that are already on operating systems in particular H.264 And in particular on mobile devices now to me, this is a no-brainer I am on the pragmatic side of the house So at Mozilla because we are a product and we are also mission Right, there are a bunch of discussions about how do those interact and so there is a very I would call purist view Which says these are patent encumbered Kodaks We will never ever ever ever ever touch them And that that's the view that we've been operating on for the last few years. I personally have never agreed with that view Because I'm pretty practical. I really believe in putting products in front of people that they love and that work And so we're moving towards that now And so I can answer for Mozilla And certainly on the mobile devices in particular with H.264 You know, I don't know if we have an official decision yet, but we will and I'm I'm quite sure we'll see that happen then whether there's a discussion on the desktop and This is another kind of product versus value issue. I mean, there's a bunch of issues And not all Kodaks available on the Linux platform And so then then we have a discussion back and forth which says well, it's not available on Linux So we shouldn't do it at all with the side of Probably 90 95% of people even in our world are not Linux users. So does it not work for everybody? And so that's a bit back and forth And especially because the Linux world is important part of our community and really important So but I think we're moving towards a more pragmatic view here I will say I think in the Mozilla world that we will probably lose Some of our contributors and some of our evangelists because of this decision Yeah in exchange for building a product that actually people can use and enjoy on the other hand, there's opera as well, which is And I don't know what they'll do. So But I guess if if Mozilla if everyone other than opera is using This codex, you know, the the opera folks are really quite good I mean, they're really technically quite quite good and the video tag came from Hakan Lee of opera Right, that's my first memory of video is Brendan coming back from something Maybe South by Southwest actually and saying hey, you know, I'm gonna have this idea. Let's do it. So You know, they'll get to the right place. So I hope that's enough of an answer I think these battles will probably continue and I Think Mozilla will be more practical in the future kind of Not necessarily all that happy about the need but but to spend our energy on parts of The battle for openness where we have more success or more chance of success I think that pretty much rounds it out. Okay, great. Great. Thank you