 Ladies and gentlemen, there seems to be a conference about something every week every month all year long all sorts of conferences Unfortunately for me, I don't get I don't get invited any of them. I've been invited to come and sit and watch They've said core you come sit and watch and so I figured you know what matter of fact The only conference that I went to this year Well, and I say this year the last year was the mass deliverance conference I had a wonderful time with it at the mass deliverance conference as you can see here in the photo I enjoyed myself thoroughly at the heresy that was just hurled about and so I figured you know what since I Don't get to go to the conferences like I should then dog on it if you can't beat them join I'm gonna start my own conference And so you all heard of the g3 conference if you haven't you're gonna hear about the g3 conference But what I decided to do Decided to have my own conference. Yep the g2 conference I started to call it the og conference or the og3 conference or the 2g's conference But we'll go with g2 conference, right? So I can kind of piggyback off of their success and if you think of G3 you're gonna have to necessarily think of my brother our brother your brother Virgil Walker so Virgil, how are you doing brother? And I hope you don't mind me still in your Your deal, but yeah g2 conference and we'll have this annual conference probably every other month Hey brother course great to be with you man I've been a longtime fan watch the show for quite some time and man excited excited excited to have an opportunity Man to connect with you. Hey man. Well, listen, there might be two or three people who don't know who Virgil Walker is So can you tell them just briefly about yourself? Yeah, I am Virgil Walker. I am the I'm part of a duo a co-host to the just thinking podcast In addition to that I am the vice president of ministry relations here at g3 ministries and I get the joy of providing executive oversight for all of our conferences and workshops on the one side And then on the on the other side of the house I also am involved in connecting ministries with us here at g3 Making sure that we're in partnership in a variety of different ways everything from Ministry-related activities to donors and the likes I do the whole the whole gamut. So I've been here for about three years Enjoy what I get to do here. I'm an author. I write written three books now And yeah, that's that's me. I'm the father of three children my my dear wife Tamika Is there at home with with with the family? Like I said, three children two of them are in Omaha and then one of them is here with so that's that's kind of the short Short version of things for me now. I know of I know of two of the books here are two of the books I put out on here and moderates if you if you guys can both of these are on amazon the third book I'll let Virgil tell you about but these two books go ahead and get them If you see on the screen, I think they are at amazon. I'm not sure where else there's they're sold so Virgil you can tell us what there's there's a third book. What book did I did I miss? Yeah, you got those two we one that just now dropped. It's just thinking about ethnicity just thinking about ethnicity It's with founders press and so it I want to say it published the 15th in fact just a week ago 15th of january So is that the one where it's the picture of the person's face? Yes, but okay. So it looks like the other just thinking but yes, okay. I saw that and I thought that okay, maybe this is just Uh, different different book covers. Okay, so all right. I did see it I just part or that that's part of a trilogy that we're doing just thinking about the state Just thinking about ethnicity and then the last one is just thinking about the church But uh, the the one they're just thinking about the state. They all have that same kind of format that look That color pattern and palette. So we kind of did those. Those are all a part of a trilogy of books. Uh, and then the other one Why are you afraid we did that one here with g3 press? I did okay. I did and I did see all three of those. I'm thinking, okay, they're the same book I need to do a better job of reading. I'm sorry. I I apologize by the way guys, if you all have not subscribed to G3's youtube channel make sure that you all go in and do that as well. Now, I've got to clear Take care of some business. Got to make sure that we have that we are all on the on the same level. First of all, uh, We already know That virgil's wife is wonderful She's got a good taste because she chose a man who was bald or was going to be bald So she saw that but the question I got asked on the floor for everybody This is this is just because I'm petty Uh, y'all tell us who has the best hairdo The guy on the right or the guy on the left I'm going with the guy in the red, but you know what you Yeah, that that's what that's what gets you to the g2 conference g3 you can be whatever but g2 You can you cannot see I thought about I honestly I thought about Uh, the day that you said that you would come on Was the same day that jesson peter said he'd come on. I said no, you know, no, no, he's got hair I'm gonna be old g3, but no, he's got somebody said definitely virgil. Let's let band that person said definitely virgil Well, I will say this though, I will say this we we both are bald both have glasses But I do have a better mustache Because it is so there there we go, but I want to I want to go into Uh, there was there's some hubbub obviously when you're doing g3 and g3 is big g3 is big everyone talks about it I think more people who don't go talk a lot about it versus people that do go And there's some that talk about it who have good things to say Those have bath and and they those that have bath and say are many cases those who have never been Uh, and we're gonna bring this up again when it comes to this issue of the cessation conference But what what exactly is g3 the g3 conference and well, what is g3 and what is the g3 conference? Yeah, yeah g3 stands for gospel grace and glory gospel grace and glory. That's g3 It was the brainchild of pastor josh bice Local church pastor here in douglasville georgia just outside of atlanta His desire was to see a theology conference brought to the local church And so that's basically what what he did. He had it here that the church holds about I'd say 650 people He had great connections through his time at at the southern Baptist theological seminary and as a result brought some fantastic speakers that the votey bachoms the paul washers Steve lawson And others that that would that would come and grace the stage phil johnson and others That that said it just grew I think from the very first year It was thought about in 2012 the first conferences in 2013 It exploded. I actually showed up on the scene quarry at about 2017 I was in Omaha, Nebraska at the time attended my first g3 conference in 2017 That was the 500th anniversary of the reformation. Uh, I was there. It was amazing. There were about 25 200 people That were there. It was it was all inspiring. It was absolutely amazing to witness to watch to experience And it's only grown from there every year, you know an additional thousand or or more get added to to the roster in 2020, however, that was the point at which The there was a there was a shift that took place with g3 And that was a desire to go from a conference-based ministry That that provided resources to a resource driven ministry a content producing ministry that had a conference and so I was brought in to provide oversight for the conference space and and josh Mr. Josh who wanted to simply be a local church pastor kind of handed off G3 and all of the the conference piece to me While we also hired our executive vice president Scott annual and scott does all of this stuff with Our publishing arm. We have a publishing arm. We publish books Does all of our content driven stuff with g3 plus our app Uh, just a number of different things that we're involved in blog writing Writing articles providing curricula For local churches to utilize just a lot of different things that we're now Involved in the ministry has exploded in 2021 when I took over the first conference We had 6500 people show up and then finally last year in 2023. It's a biennial conference We had 8300 people show up and in the off years. I'll say this and stop in the off years When we're not having a national conference We have regional conferences And those regional conferences are are smaller. So we'll have two regional conferences one You know about the cessationist conference and then we have the reformation conference These will be I say smaller in that we'll have about anywhere between 1,000 to 1,500 people at those events But the national conference brings in, you know, 8,000 plus Are are the is a national conference in one the same location or is it in different locations? Yeah, the national conference is always in atlanta here in our backyard We he purposed it that way. It's an easy fly in easy fly out Folks are able to kind of see and experience the All the great things that atlanta has to offer in addition to hearing fantastic preaching and Great great ministries and and exhibitors and the like that are all a part of what we have going on here at g Now, okay, so apparently apparently all of the churches in atlanta aren't bad. Okay, so We were worried And I can't I can't say anything We really can't talk because there's a whole lot of bad here in the dallas area, too It's just that, uh, you know, we've got our we've got our goofiness, too. It's just that of of late Atlanta has taken the lead right now, but i'm pretty sure Give give it another week or two dallas will jump back in I don't know what it is about these these two areas really these two states Yeah, well, yeah, well, you got you guys got you guys got what uh, jakes there with the potter's house there in Dallas area and then we've got we got crazy from every different direction, you know from jamal brian to You name it. I mean, it's just it's absolutely crazy here. And so I've got a front row seat to to craziness in black church culture It's absolutely amazing. Yeah, it is it. You know what? How do I say this tastefully? Let me see, you know what this this is the g2 conference. So we it didn't have to be all that tasteful Uh at g2, we do a little bit different than we do at g3 at g2. We'll just come out and say it There's too many colorful in these churches that are just acting It's it's almost embarrassing. It's like wow Here's how bad it is. I saw a comment The comment was from a black man Who said I no longer can go to black churches anymore not because I I don't have a problem with predominantly black churches But because I don't know what I'm going to get and with more Uh predominantly white churches that aren't you know, because you go to church. It's not known to be charismatic And you step into the church and lo and behold they're not calling themselves charismatic, but they are But then he says and I and I when he said that I wanted to respond But then I couldn't it's like, you know what? Yeah I hear I because now obviously all black churches all predominantly black churches aren't that way Right, but dawg aren't we churches that are led by predominantly black pastors and a larger portion of black members Are leading the charge though in that area unfortunately Yeah, they really are and I think that's in part due to the fact that when Normally it what what we're seeing across evangelicalism is the feminization of of church Uh, you've got a lot of women in fact a lot of single women who are who are in these churches Nationwide the statistics run somewhere in the neighborhood of at any at an evangelical church on a sunday You're gonna see 65 of the church is Many of them single women You know and 30 30 percent are going to be men and they're going to fit a specific age demographic The men who are there are actually older So that so you've got older men in a variety of women and so in black churches. It's even worse Corey it's somewhere in the neighborhood of between 80 to 85 percent of black churches on a given sunday morning You look around and you see a bunch of women And and unfortunately is rather than pastors being serious about scripture preaching the word of god unadulterated, uh, they they end up catering To what most women want to hear you see that in the gemal brines of the world, especially during the Dobbs decision, uh, that ended Roe v. Wade and he comes out and says that that was an attack on on on women in the country It's just absolutely astonishing Yeah, um Matter of fact, let me ask a question. I mean, I want to go over this question real quick before I forget it It's not on what we're talking about but I figured I might as well go ahead and ask you this question Uh, Robert asks this question says, what is your stance on allister bag with everything that that has just happened? So with say that again with allister bag said again, he said what what is your stance? What do you think about the whole allister bag? Um incident or situation? I was yeah, I was asked about this earlier and we in fact did a did a podcast On it where we talked about uh, the sanctity of marriage the beauty of marriage Uh, I think it's it's you know, first you have to start out by saying and I believe I don't know if you've commented on this or not But I but I believe uh, uh, you've said or others have said and I and I and I agree with them Allister bag has been a tremendous blessing to the body of christ for years And while we live in a culture that loves to do play the kind of cancel game where we immediately Someone says one thing wrong and we cancel them and we cancel their whole ministry I don't think that's a requirement here. I think we can adequately say yes This man gets a lot of things right and it's been a blessing to the body of christ And then at the end of the day, here's what he gets wrong Here's the area where where he you know, he gives he offers advice To a grandmother on the basis of a pragmatism and b emotionalism Rather than on on the biblical understanding of what is marriage marriage is between a a male and a female. It's a covenant union organized authorized by god and so Any anything outside of that male male female female or male and and someone trans or or female and someone trans those things are not marriages That they're they're a category error So to in so to so to tell a A woman she could go to the wedding a it wasn't a wedding It wasn't a marriage and b to say that that that individual would be would would be benefited by by sending a gift To celebrate that that's absolutely the wrong message to send The message to send is that that love means I tell you the truth And and as a result that the truth is that what you're about to engage in is is is a is a horrifying sin It is it is a rejection of god's order And and you need to repent now that should not change the grandmother's love for that that that grandson But but she should not go celebrate their absolute rebellion against god and I hate to I hate that allister beg said what he said Uh, it's sad. I think it's okay to say he was wrong And say it and no no with with no equivocation But we also don't have to throw him away. Uh, we could say he got this wrong This is absolutely wrong and I continued it to be benefited by the other areas where he gets it right Yeah, my my thought is uh along the line of yours Uh, you you don't do that And the problem is when when someone like it's worse when allister beg says something like that versus someone who is known to be kind of out there Uh, someone who has a bunch of false teachings because okay fine That's par for the course of what he does it Then what ends up happening is there are other people that listen to him So, okay Well, then if he says because people lend a lot of credibility to the to the position and to him and his stature And so there will be those that because everyone's having to deal with this issue in some way should come fashion. And so he It presents things. Um, it it presents to the christian what they should do I think incorrectly as you said you're celebrating you're doing what paul says That you are giving approval whether you think you are or not then others will take it that way Um, but i'm like you also i'm not i don't i don't throw him away Uh, he's I think he's wrong on that. I think that even his response was your response was worse either Almost as though he was calling those a disagreed kind of in lines with with being Pharisees. Well, no, no, we we When when people that you respect say that you're wrong then then you're wrong Or at least you know, hey, maybe I messed up And I think the the the part that he missed that could have been something wonderful Is when he would if he could have just said, you know, yeah, I got that wrong I may have misspoke. You know, yeah on on further thought I don't do that. I don't But that's not what happened. So But anyway, I I want I wanted to put that out there Someone asks others others are going to ask Question about about g3 Is this more reform? What what is the denominational bent to g3? Is there's not a denominational bent? I know there might be a leaning, but does it is it for Those that are not reformed also Yeah, it's it the conference itself Is is open to anyone who wants to come and hear and enjoy What we provide an offer From a standpoint of g3 the ministry is is you know, 1689 london baptist confession of faith That's kind of how how we're wired That's what if you want to know what we believe if you pulled that up You would get a very clear idea of exactly what we believe related to that So that's kind of what you know where we stand But we don't we wouldn't tell someone they couldn't attend a conference because they don't you know They they don't agree about about every aspect of what we of what we discuss And so that's kind of the kind of the deal there. Yeah, okay Okay, now one of the other conferences that you guys were We're doing Now You have had some controversy to it and I understand controversy which is the whole again the whole reason why we have the G2 conferences. I think this this is going to be this is going to end up being the biggest conference The biggest online annual conference that will be held at least once or twice every other month So the g2 conference is going to have controversy, but you had a conference That didn't happen But was spoken one as though before it happened Still spoken of kind of in a negative way by a lot of people who don't care to understand what you're speaking of And that is the cessations of current before we go there. I want I want to play the promo Uh for this conference guys The church today is infected with the influences of the charismatic movement God told me who I would marry when god spoke to me I like heard it so clear as clear as i'm talking to you now The lord spoke to my heart god spoke to us audibly I hear the audible voice from god the word that the lord gave me He told me that everything i was feeling in my spirit was correct I know that this is what the holy spirit has spoken to me. That's the word god spoke to me Charismatic theology has affected so much of our theology in ways that we don't often recognize Man, I tried for years to speak in tongues. Don't speak in english. Don't think english Mom, briastic are yesta, brianda. Yes, the man says it's weird, but the spirit says hello This is awesome fake miracles false tongues and non authoritative prophecy A prophet is one who has god's words put in his mouth If you are not earnestly desiring spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, you are sinning They don't have a single prophet who has been 100 accurate What does the new testament say prophecy is? What does the new testament say tongues are? What does the new testament say the gifts of healing are? Let's compare them to the contemporary charismatic petticoastal movement And what you find out is the two don't match It teaches people to look away from the bible to some experience Deep down, heirsmatics are riddled with doubts about what they believe Is god's word sufficient? Is god's word enough? Dreams, visions, those sort of things inspired me to love jesus to obey him Join us in october of 2024 for the cessation this conference The church must once again stand with a renewed confidence in god's sufficient word We hope to see you there Well, that was wonderful. Matter of fact, what y'all going to you know what? I cut it off where it said win and wear so One and I'm gonna ask you how it got to be to where it's going to be Um in in oklahoma, but but what what are the dates and where will it be? Yeah, that conference is the cessationist conference. It'll be uh at first baptist church mustang in mustang, oklahoma Right outside you'll fly into oklahoma city. It's a suburb right outside of oklahoma city first baptist church beautiful church They're connected with us through relationships that we've cemented now for for years. There'll be a ton of folks there The the actual date is october third through the fifth of 2024 october third through the fifth and Now we're excited about it. We had initially announced that we were gonna have it out on the west coast at dr. MacArthur's church if you were at the if you were at the At the conference when we initially launched the information about the conference We had it was kind of in partnership with the folks out at grace community church And unbeknownst to us after having a course of some conversations and and we we understood why The the the folks there made made the change they kind of felt like dr. MacArthur articulated That having had the strange fire conference They're almost a decade ago. In fact, there's a decade ago that strange fire conference happened That that macArthur actually felt like he had said all that he would want to say about the subject Given where he is in his ministry. We completely respect that And understand and for us as we thought about you know having it there Would we move it would there be another better location kind of to move it to Given the fact that macArthur wouldn't be participating Our thought was let's accommodate The folks that that would love to come and perhaps can't travel all the way out to the the west coast to To make it happen And so we found a landing spot right in the middle of the country and we felt like it would be a great Venue a great place and the the people there at first baptists are going to be amazing as far as as far as hosting us But I was sharing with you core kind of behind the scenes that after the decision that That our dear friends at grace made This was not an easy lift to find a spot to land And as we began to kind of examine what you know, what was going on and where it was happening You know, how how can we find a a good location? What we began to find is that conferences that are Or rather churches that are the size that we were requiring They had a difficult time, you know saying yes to to the conference and in part I think and I was I shared this with you offline that I think I think Let me let me start here What's convinced me more than anything that this conference is needed Is that as we began to go to churches the the size of the of the kind of space that we needed Many of them were uncomfortable with the subject matter and and in part because while they agreed with us doctrinally They just hadn't spent a lot of time teaching their people About the about the doctrine of cessationism about what it means to be a cessationist and there's there's a lot of confusion Oh, you mean that you you believe all the gifts have ceased so there's no more miracles You know, that's kind of the charge we get so so there's there's there's no more prophecy You mean you mean a pastor can't speak prophetically or what's what's going on or you know people you can't be healed Well, that's that's not what cessationists believe And so we wanted to we were recognizing the need for this conference on on two levels one To address what we see as abuses Of the Holy Spirit and his name and and and ascribing to the Holy Spirit things that are not the Holy Spirit And then on the other end we we see a need for those who stand with us biblically and theologically and agree with us To to have a robust understanding of of what of what it means to be a cessationist And what it means to to to rely on the sufficiency of scripture for all things Aiming toward godliness. And so we we we recognize its need And and are excited that we did find a spot to land and that will have the conference What what was bothersome to me Is that Not you you weren't going to churches that disagreed with you You were going to churches that and guys were not gonna say They're gonna say who which church which pastor not gonna do that But to go to churches that agreed with you But did not feel Comfortable enough basically making a stand on that That's the part that that to me is is a bit disheartening You've got a set of beliefs But you won't stand on those beliefs Yeah Yeah, you you it's unfortunate when when you see that but telling At the same time my hope is I try to be positive about it. Cory or or else You know, I if I had hair, I'd probably pull it out It's one of it's one of those things where your hope is that in exposing Um The issue that they come to understand and know that perhaps we need to do a better job Of of training and equipping our people In the things that we claim we believe so that's that's the hope on the positive side of the spectrum But you know if you're in this long enough and you've been around ministry and And have executed ministry long enough to know there are a lot of people Who say things or say that they believe things? And don't really don't really hold to them. It's one thing you understand a conviction When someone has to pay a price so confessing something is one thing But but having true conviction means you're willing to pay a price for it and and some folks aren't there I don't fault them for not being there. I simply think it's important to recognize where they are And the hope is that they take steps to move forward to the to the point where they can stand on conviction I think one of the things that and I I saw this In fact, of course, you see it even more so today But where What's the old saying how they would kind of equate certain things happening during during the time of the holocaust And they say that when good people will see things happening But you know kind of look the other way or not get involved Not want to take a stand and then it would lead to things like the holocaust I know even uh, Martin Luther King Jr made a statement about that. I'm not talking about Martin Luther King Jr At this point, but he made a statement that was I thought was kind of on point along those same lines is that We are called as you said not to just you know, just To know this stuff But also because that behind every soul at the end of every false teaching or heresy is a is a soul And people who aren't let's just be honest Christians a lot of Christians Simply just don't read their bible and try to study and learn their bible And they depend on someone in the pulpit to tell them And they act a certain way they speak a certain way and then they well He pastor said so and so and then it's verified or validated because they go to tv and they see someone else doing it and the the ministries the uh, the social media platforms That seem to get the most views the bigger followings are those that are charismatic in nature and so I think The problem that that is going to lend itself that that's going to happen is when someone tries it When you actually try to apply what's being taught in some of these churches And then you find out that it's not working There's only two conclusions that you can come to if you bought that one Something's wrong with me. I don't have enough faith enough power Or two something's wrong with god And either way you become frustrated Because you listen to someone else's teaching and that I started for yourself and I think that you Absolutely have to have more churches to stand up and say no, there you're not gonna believe this or you may believe this 2007 I remember this I remember this vividly because This was when I had just started my my federal tour And I was in my cell had a radio and I was listening to the the the troops I forgot what was called the troops something conference And it was to kind of stamp out these churches in the dfw area to stamp out heresy and false teachings and to Claim a fidelity towards the scriptures 2007 Do you know where this church with where this where this the church that this conference was held at? People will be shocked if they heard this This conference was held at gateway church, which is I don't know if you heard robert morris It was held there. Yep Wow We fast forward this many years later and he is now in their camp Maybe he's took taking the same tacky can't beat him joining his churches This he had a large church then but it's ballooned even more since then And you tell me we don't have a need for sound teaching now. We've got this mega church here in the dfw area Uh and leading people down the wrong road Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I I think you know I come from those circles, right? I I'm I've been at jakesis church Not not not as a spectator, but as someone who truly believed The message that he teed that that he taught I remember a video you did a while back With carlton pierce. Um, I was a member at pierce's church for a number of years You know, I so I'm familiar with with the prosperity gospel movement. I'm familiar with uh with that teaching and and You know, I I used to I remember back in the day I used to try to kind of test some things out like I there was a there was a summer I you know, I wanted to see if this stuff worked So there was a summer where you know, I had a job where I was on my feet the whole day walking and whatnot I had holes in my shoes and I thought I want to see if this stuff really works No, I'm not gonna tell I'm not gonna tell anybody that I need a new pair of shoes. I'm just gonna pray. I'm gonna sew My seed. I'm gonna I'm gonna believe god and just wait, you know in the whole day I'm gonna I'm gonna say I believe I received these brand new shoes. I believe I received these brand new shoes So this this started in you know in may and then june july There was a hole in the bottom of my shoe By august and then september when the weather started changing quarry and the rain started kicking in I didn't I didn't have anything but but but soaked socks Going into these offices, man Because you know all of the all the name and claim it did not work And and really the reality was all I had to do was use common sense the money I was sewing and the seeds I was Sewing I should have bought me a new pair of shoes and called it a day But you know, I was trying to you know, that's again That's that's on a small scale and unfortunately it didn't it didn't cause me any more harm than a Than a wet wet sock with some shoes But think about somebody who's really believed that that teaching and and are saying that for someone who has a Has an illness or sickness That that that leads to death And then and then they're left with you know, their loved one passes And then they're left with either I didn't have enough faith to see that person made hole and healed Or or or god doesn't care enough to see that happen or something's wrong with god That that has the a destructive impact on people's Yeah, you know, it was funny you you made that statement about the shoe Here it is 1995 or six I think it's five or six And my wife and I worked at the church. This was this was um in in Lubbock, Texas We made combined $700 a month So not very much even in the 90s evening level and I had shoes that had holes in them And I said in I didn't have money, you know to go and just just pay I probably could have saved But I just you know lord the lord is going to heal this hole in my shoe The hole is gonna go away something's gonna happen and now I'm touching every rock when I'm you know Feet hurting. I you know developing calluses right there Eventually someone saw the bottom of my shoe and said boy, let me get you some get you some shoes But I was thinking the same thing the lord is going to bless these shoes I was I was sowing money that I didn't have Waiting for a 50 or 100 fold return And one day we go home meet my wife and and the girls the kids How many kids we have we have two at the time Come in the apartment hit the light switch and nothing And you know how it is which is sad when your lights are off You don't hit the light switch once you just you keep hitting like something's gonna happen And my wife is sitting there with her arms crossed just looking at me The the light company was not interested in me sowing a seed By faith and so yeah, I learned hard lesson. I learned I learned I'll never do that Again, but yeah, that's what you're taught. That's what yes, so you like to believe so yes, yes Now let me ask you this Again when when I think about my my personal story again I was in that in that brief clip with the movie cessationist You know, I got a chance to tell a little bit of my personal story testimony with regard to To that that arena and again, like I said, I was at carlton piercings church So I watched the whole you know all all of those prosperity preachers come through and the carlton's life where he goes from You know being kind of the high flying A pastor who everybody knows and loves who's bringing azusa Back to life again the this you know, bapticastal expression of of of pentecost all the way to becoming a heretic basically and and living out a life and then and then and then his his sad sad Unfortunate death in the state of the denial of of who christ actually the the real christ of the bible the real christ of scripture And the doctrines that that that he once held dear I think everybody that knew carlton piercings still remembers the story And you know, you'll know when I say it. Are you yet? Are you yet holding on? Yes And so I just I I think about that and so there were people though And it's just proof that even a heretic or a false teacher one that's even not known God will still take that Because thankfully it's not the person the preaching that does it. It's it's the lord That was that that's the one that's going to that's going to save you but this issue about uh, cessationist Explain to the people What does that actually mean by the way if you all haven't seen the movie cessationist? Because a lot of people had had you know, the big hubbub about it Who pulled it without even seeing at least watch it at least watch it and see at least the point Because I don't know if you saw the debate between Um jim osmond and and dr. Michael brown I have not yet watched that jim osmond's a dear dear friend of mine, but I have not yet Uh got a chance to to watch that I I saw I think I saw a clip of it or something and wanted to jump into it But have not yet circle, but I'd like to Michael brown. I think I watched a little bit of your debate with with michael brown and he he's a He's a debater. He's a he's a he's a really really good debater. You have to know Know your stuff in order to really address the issues that that that he raised He made me decide i'm never doing a formal debate again from now if we're gonna debate we're gonna have a conversation um because he asked a question And and asked because again, he's been he's been doing this longer than I've been alive He's been well over 50 years And so he asked a question There's time constraints and I'm not from unless I'm trying to get to my point across Answer well, no, and so he cuts me off and goes this point and well, okay Well, here's my point that I'm trying to make to answer the question because what you asked was bogus You know, it is I personally I love him But I also think that he's also a bit deceptive because he's got he's got to protect the few Charismatic scholarship that that's out there the little bit of it as a matter of fact and I might ask you about Sam storm as well, but in that debate Jim osmond knows about it knows him fairly well me personally I want to defer to him and you know be cordial and so forth by that by the end of the debate I want to I want to just jump on you know, like wait a second. This is not what you're saying I don't want to move to the next topic. Forget the time constraints all that stuff But anyway in the in the discussion and it wasn't a formally time debate uh with with him but Jim Osmond, I think I think if if you were picking sides And you came in kind of you know without sides yet, but you listen to that I think Jim Osmond won that and that's me not even holding to a a strict cessationist belief, but he he made his points Because what what someone like dr. Brown will do matter of fact He always every time that he talks about this he leans to his experiences Or what is What I asked a question about The history of the church. Why don't we see this now speaking in terms of scriptures? Well, he brings up that it is um in the history of the church Mainly recent history. Well that doesn't count, but he seems to want to include that and so in that debate I think he did. I think jim. I did a wonderful job and then sam storms had a discussion with um with uh John clash John John clash even I'm not a debater. I'm not this. I'm not that now that that one I watched and that Yeah, that one was interesting because uh, I think I think sam storms completely underestimated Uh, what was it? What was young man's name? John clash? I think he underestimated him and and that and that exchange And and and really uh capitulated on some of the issues that that clash raised. So I I thought I thought clash one One that particular Debate on the merits. Um, because I think I think storms didn't came in not not really prepared Or thought or or had thought through why he why he stood or where he stood on on what he did That was more conversational core if I remember correctly was There was a little bit of formality to it from a standpoint of subject matter and and kind of the way that they Wanted to move through topics. Um, but it was definitely more more of a conversational Approach did you hear his opening? Do you remember his opening statement sam storms opening statement? He asked him, uh, the the guys moderated and asked him, you know Since he's taking the affirmative to tell us why he believes that christians can have a demon and before Anyone can say anything else. He said that I really don't want to say that I'm taking the affirmative because Out of his own mouth. He's explaining that there's not a lot of scriptural support for belief in that Well, then why are you writing about it? Why are you causing uh, and that's the problem? Here's a guy Who graduated from uh, dallas dallas a lot of seminary? Um reputable, but he's teaching something that obviously the seminary doesn't agree with But because he's got phd then This guy knows what he's talking about and you see these well, they were leaning towards him Uh, and that's that's the problem same thing with with uh, with michael brunt If you don't have the scriptures or you're going to take the meaning from the scriptures and twist it And someone holds you I asked him and I'll move on to this issue of cessationism But I asked him about the particular text and he wanted to move from the text and says well I've already asked well no you didn't and he says well go go look at this other scholar this other scholar that other scholar but What about I'm asking they're not here. I'm talking to you And so after a week or two I go look at the scholars the scholars Don't say what I'm asking you so and I think Um, they get caught up in the fact that this person's a doctor. Well, do you know how many other guys with phd's or Um DMs also believe that believe the opposite you take if you just line up scholarship Who has more on this side? Not not those that believe like dr. Michael brown or sam storm But I want to ask you to explain to people what is what what is meant by Uh being a cessation list or a cessation list. I'm putting someone's comment cessationist or cessationism Uh, oh did he oh, I think we froze up Okay, give me give me a second guys. Let me let him um reconnect. Here he is. He's coming right back in There we go. There we go Okay, all right. There we go. I'm sorry about that um That was that was on my end for some odd reason my my link faded. I apologize. Well, it's that it's it's Atlanta That's what it's Atlanta Um, but tell everyone explain everyone what is what what is what does it mean to be a cessation Yeah, yeah, it's it's really just uh someone who's saying you know what scripture is absolutely Uh sufficient for for all things uh the the idea that we need a Right now revelation Some audible voice uh that we hear from god Some some man to uh to to walk in some divine healing of some kind is is not is not what we see Today really it simply means that it's not the idea that we don't believe in miracles We do believe god can do the miraculous But there's no one man who holds miracle power That is able to wield it at at at you know at the drop of a hat like a like a benny hen There's no one man who who hears from god and and and prophesize in such a way that That the prophets of old did in in the old testament where there's a hundred percent accuracy We believe that the sign gifts that are attached to the apostles And those in the old testament are no longer Relevant today and the reason for that is because we have the more sure word of prophecy Which is indeed the word of god that that that all that we need that pertains to life and godliness comes from the word And that it we're not required By scripture Through through prescription In any stretch of of the imagination To perform to perform miraculous gifts miraculous healings Or anything like that in order to be in in god's will I think it was sam storms In fact as we were mentioning him before before I before I left He made the statement I think it's in the trailer that if you if you're not pursuing These these gifts That you're sinning right if you're not pursuing the miraculous gifts You're indeed in sin. I just I just reject that idea altogether Matter of fact, let me I want what I want to do is I want to pull the passage this is this is the problem that I have and This is this is what this is what? um It's come to it's come to a clear view of the scriptures And turning folks away from even people that look at the scriptures And not see what the scripture said because I did a video where I'm covering what he's saying He said it and some other people sam storms was there. I think jack deer was there and another professor I'm not sure who it was. I can remember the guy's name, but he says that we should be pursuing gifts But that's not what the scripture says the scriptures are clear what it says it says pursue love Yet desire earnestly the spiritual gifts and the word is it is Desire the numitika And I think I think we get if we just look at the scriptures again Paul put this on the screen as well. Paul says Uh in first screen things four six same book. He says but I don't want you I want you to learn not to exceed what is written So when you come back and you tell someone if you say to that person or anyone that we should be pursuing gift And then and then say that if you if you're not Uh, especially seeking to prophesy that you're sinning That's not what the pastor says and sam storms who knows greek That's that is not what the text says the text says for all you haven't heard me say this before I'll say it now Briefly it says malon de henna props what they says But in order that or rather more in order that you prophesy so he says pursue love Which is for other people not yourself and seek the the spirit the things of the spirit numitika And it's not the word for spiritual gifts We've got a word for that but numitika is the things of the spirit or the spiritual things And why do you do so? He says in order that you would bring a revelation not that you would be a Fourth telling the lord is going to do this in five days or the lord told me about that's not That's not what paul is speaking about at all and some and by the way It's also reiterated again in verse five and I brought this up to uh, to uh, dr. Brown and others What does the greek say? And while I reject that based on what based on what in the in in this greek since you guys are scholars What does it say since you guys know it because this is what i'm saying? Show me as I look at the greek why i'm wrong about this issue Of let's say in this case tongue or spiritual gifts because it seems like you guys are using spiritual gifts to kind of Pat yourself pat yourself on the back make folks feel like I am super spiritual now guys me I'm a little different than the guys at the cessations conference Why practically I agree with them? But and I think this helps me out when I when i'm talking to them Y'all heard the old saying smoke them if you got them you got some cigarettes go ahead now That was obviously we're talking in the 80s and 70s But something paul says that makes me a lot. I remember that In romans 12. Where were we at inverse? Where are we at? I moved my my cursor Here we is here. It is let's start in verse three He said for through the gate grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly than you ought to Which I think is interesting that he makes that statement right before he's getting ready to say say this He said uh as uh to think more highly than you ought to but to think so as to have sound judgment Huh? Why are you introducing that as you're about to speak about these gifts paul as god has allowed to each? A measure of faith for just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function So where we who are many are in one body? In christ individually members of another so look what he says Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us each of us Is to exercise them accordingly So my stand my point is Smoke if you got me if if you got to get the healing get the healing if you got to get the prophesied I don't mean prophesied like we see today Yeah, I don't mean if you got to get the tongues tongues like we see today No, if you got to get whatever it needs to look like what we see there And I think they get afraid To do it Publicly as though we're asking them okay. We're fine because I think I heard I heard justin say this That all they have to do they can they can end this and settle this debate Wasn't for all once and for all just fine Do something let us see it The lady the lady that was blind Last week and you and you laid your hands on your hilder Can you show us because there's video of her walking around bumping into stuff? And there's a video of her now driving the car And we've got so show us all these cameras and security yet ring you you can't rob a house without seeing it on ring So no But now we can't we can't and it's not the way we're asking you to prove it to us You came to us right right. This is what it is. So right Cool, yeah, I'm my background. I mean I mentioned carlton pierce and he was in Tulsa, Oklahoma, right and we were We were near ol roberts university. My wife actually attended ol roberts university They had they had the city of faith hospital right there My thought is if you operate if any any of the quote-unquote profits that were Coming to chapel to speak and had the gift to to lay hands and to heal It it the the smoke the smoke them if you got them to to use what what you said would be Let's have that profit not not gather everybody in the maybe center And and get your your motion stirred with all this music and you're singing for three hours And you're kind of in this in this this this days right this hypnotic this hypnotic days Walk through with crystal clarity walk through the hospital and just clear it out that that would that would that would That would solve any everyone who has documented ailments right there in the hospital Just walk into the hospital and clear the hospital out and then invite all the tv cameras And they can look and say look this person had this disease and this disease and this disease They were laid up in the hospital and and this man came through laid hands and they walked out That would be a way to to say okay these what what we see in these in the way these sign gifts Are indeed real but that's that's not what we see The tongues are not what we read about in scripture. Those were languages There's all kinds of aspects of it, but again the the goal is is not to With the conference is not to say okay. Hey, we we're gonna get here and have a big bashing session We can't wait to just you know just hammer these folks and that's that's not at all the goal The goal is to properly equip believers Who who maybe lean in our direction or understand what we are what we're talking about to say Hey, I want to understand this in a more clear way as well as kind of what we talked about at the beginning I want to make sure that these ideas Don't don't sneakily invade Where we worship and what we worship and how we worship and who we worship We want to make sure that that we're not seeing Evidences of charismatic influence in our in our singing In the way we pray in the way we worship god and and and you know all all the above and so We we want to we want to go back to the to the text of scripture We want to be reforming In in our in our ideas about what scripture has to say and allow it to be sufficient to regulate our worship Yeah, so let me ask this question someone asked and I want to answer this question Where she she says Fair enough this channel welcome. She says Cory explain why he isn't a cessationist. He talks like one I do talk like one as a matter of fact, you would normally people have said you are cessationist. I'm not I'm open to and here it is because I I started off also just like Virgil I started off in the charismatic church and so We would speak in tongues and this now people said well, you didn't speak in tongues Well, if I didn't speak in tongues all the other folks that spoke in tongues I had the Holy Spirit sure thought I did and you did too. By the way, my tongues sound just like your tongue So what are you doing? But the reason why I don't call my cessationist is because I'm open to someone having the gift Now here what I just said I'm open to someone having the gift Open to it and accepting that you say it are two different things so Now by the way, and I'll use this pushback that they're going to give to some Well, Virgil just said to make my point Virgil said about going to the into the hospitals and clearing them out Well, that's not what the the apostles did. They didn't go to the hospital. Well, first of all We didn't have a lot of hospitals like that in that day But what did happen is people who were who needed healing Would find them those who seriously who had serious illnesses would find them and these were ill illnesses that were Clearly seen a person bent over a person who was paralyzed or a person was blind Not someone who's got a sciatica someone who's got a toothache, you know an abscess none of that stuff Uh, and you say well, we can't heal on command But you certainly seem to heal on command at church And so why can't well fine fine the first healing that you have I can promise you if you if you heal Mary or Debbie or John or Frank or Sue They're going to get on facebook tick tock or what have you and everyone else going to know about it and they'll be there And then if that was if it was true, the lord is going to do something with in them now First let me talk about this. I'm going to do this guys. You guys remind me I am going to actually go back and just Count the years that we saw gifts certain spiritual gifts upon people to where they could touch and lay hands on folks and Bring back the dead and so forth. I'm going to count how many years That we see that in the bible There's only a few times in the bible that we see that and I'm going to show you guys how Because what what's normative Is that this isn't normal? It's not it's not an every day every week occurrence in the bible We think because we go from this page that page No, in many cases we're talking about years and in some cases Hundreds of years between one miracle to the next miracle But the reason why I don't call myself sensations is because um, I feel like and I said it's just as well I don't need to I get the pushback because of all the foolishness, but me personally I don't say I'm a sensations although I you know, I can wear a sensations hat Because I'm open to if a person's got this gift. I believe this um, there are people still on the planet who have who What's the name of that group if you all remember there's a group somewhere in the pacific where They don't speak english. We leave them alone. We know about them And they haven't heard the gospel And if the lord wanted to to bless someone to do that to go there Uh and not get killed But go there and and share the gospel if you that can happen I know we're going to have at least two more prophets true prophets, uh that are going to show up um I don't I don't know what your what your eschatology is. So I won't I won't get on that But um, I don't know that I know I know what I know what yours is since you said that so okay Prophets so that means we're going to have at least two prophets but that doesn't mean that everyone else is going to be a prophet and And uh, I think what has happened and tell me if you agree with this virtual What has happened and this is why there's a need for sticking to the text Is we've allowed certain people who don't know the text to Co-op and corrupt the text meaning this If I go to uh 1st Corinthians 13 matter of fact, let me put it on the screen and I think even I think a majority of Sensationists are going to even agree with what I'm going to say When we get down to verse 8 And he says love never fails But there but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with if there are tongues They will they will cease if there is knowledge will be done away with Well, I think all of those relate because all of those have happened to do with Spreading the gospel with enlightening and bringing folks to the body building the body up But what's happening is we've taken the term prophecy and the term tongues And we let other folks define to us what it means and in the bible First of all, the majority of prophecy was not forth foretelling Majority of prophets is not saying this is going to happen in in a day or five year majority of prophecy was Was forth telling given a revelation of what the word is and so Uh in a strict sense just by saying what the word what god is saying to someone That's revelation and we've got people to give prophecy or prophets during the founding of the church because We didn't have the canon. We didn't have the words Um for everyone so the founding of the church Well, how does he how do these people over here or over there know what's going on? Well, someone gives revelation and we don't know that these people are saying something crazy and weird The law is going to bless you the law is we don't have we don't have that at all We don't see that do we think that all of these people to prophesy Are giving some sort of futuristic prophecy? No that we don't have that But if you want to stay consistent with the scriptures, it's just them giving a revelation, which is the lord the lord died for your sins And then and then tongues we made tongues out to be something that it was never in the scriptures They have co-opted and corrupted the the word tongues to make it mean that it's this something that we don't understand It's an heavenly Or angelic language and I say no prove it because if I use a very same verbiage From first Corinthians all the way back through all every time that tongues is used or prophecy Then we're going to come up with a very different picture of what these words mean Then what modern day Charismatics mean and so That's why I say, uh, if we're I'm a cessations of this But I'm a biblical continuationist of the scriptures Um, because I'm saying if a person Has this gift fine Long as it looks like that and that way I don't I don't have to argue with you. I'm like you I'm like listen show it to me prove it I Well, I don't have to prove anything to you. Well, then stop saying it stop convincing people that they have to do that Corey I'm getting ready. I'm getting ready. I'm getting ready to prove to you right now that you you indeed are cessationists Okay, I'm getting I'm getting ready to prove it So are you telling me that what you believe is that what's normative for the christian? You correct me if I'm wrong brother. You stopped me at any point at that that that I get what you've told me wrong You are saying that that what's normative Is not is not the the tongue speaking the the prophesying all the stuff that we see That's associated with the apostles and and those prophets in the old testament that that what you see there is not Normative for today. Is that what you're saying? Correct? Okay, and that's that's part one part two is you're saying that if someone actually Had that gift That that they could you know and demonstrated that that you would that you say, okay They're they're legit. Is that what you're saying? Yes. That's that's that's cessationist brother. Well, no, okay, hold on Here's what I'm saying. Here's here's why I won't say cessation is here's why I won't say that I know I know I know why you won't say it but but I think I think And I let me I'm I'm I'm tongue-in-cheek. I'm kind of I'm kind of messing with you and you know that I I Respectfully I understand why you don't say it. Uh, I completely understand it you you you want to you If there was a scripture that said you must be a cessationist I bet core of mine would say yes, that would be me correct But let me say this way. Let me say this way Because I bet you would stop being a cessationist if this happened if I gave a prophecy a foretelling prophecy Or if someone came and just laid hands and and and raised someone from the data or healed someone Say, yeah, okay. I'm you know what? I'm no longer about that, right? And if they did that you would not find any any sort of Controversy with what what you saw with with the scriptures If bob smith came and he laid hands on someone and had a had a minister doing that Or had a gift of actual tongues not not what we said I would I would still say that that's not normative corey and as a result As as a result, I would say if a one-off situation where I witnessed someone doing that That's still a one-off situation. That is not nor that is not normative for for everyone in the church to Could god use an individual in that way? Yes I would I would I would honor that I would say yep, that's but it wouldn't change My approach to scriptural sufficiency. I would not then be looking for Profits and in the same way that that that we that we see in the old testament a donkey speaking Right, I can acknowledge that but I'm not now looking for other donkeys to speak I can I god can use whomever he chooses in any at any given point of any any given time But for us to extrapolate that one-off situation to A doctrine for the church is something totally different So so I would if I saw that and and I saw someone operating in some spiritual gift some Fortelling of the future some something truly prophetic or operated in some true healing, right? That's great and I would I would honor god I would say you know amen kind of like when uh when dr. Michael brown Hey, I had this one-off experience and because of my experience xyz I'd say I I I appreciate your experience that still does not change The the doctrine of cessationism This is still that the natural order that that god has given us in this day and time as it relates to to that gift See, I think and and again This is where also certain people have cooperated and and and really corrupted the text as well Because I think too many people have seen the gifts in the in the bible And think that everybody was running around that way But because even even understanding the gifts then We knew that everyone did there's a reason why they called peter to heal someone What why couldn't you guys do it the same if that's what they meant Then everybody would be healing everybody else and peter would be rebuking them and paul would be rebuking them Hey, why don't why aren't you doing doing that you have so little faith? But so I I would never say that Uh, nor and no one else should say that if gifts are still if there are gifts today Everybody didn't have them Just like everybody didn't have them then Just like everybody could not use them whenever they wanted to But if someone if we if if bops, let's use bopsmith bopsmith had this this gift of whatever And it was clear Then we would say okay. Well, at least with him the gifts have not seized. I'm not saying they have or have not That's that's that my point is um the reason why I say a biblical continuation is is that I'm open to it But I'm like you and every every other cessation is if you saw a miracle if you saw bob lay hands on grandma Joe who died four days ago and she got up. You know what he's got the gift Amen, and you know, we would do we would praise god for that But we would not go around thinking that everybody else can do the exact same thing or that bob can do it Every time as well, which is what we see The charismatic movement doing where where they're they're giving everyone the idea that everybody can do something now Let me just say this again guys Have I seen these things happen? No Do I do I know that god heals? Yes, when I was in when I was in college playing basketball and the guy just collapsed He had no no history of anything He just fell out. Um, I don't know how I can't remember how well he was breathing or not And I just prayed laid my hands on him And I wasn't I wasn't laying my hands when I was just praying while touching I just happened to be laying with my hands on him and he just as I said amen. He just set up Now was my amen or my praying that did it and I don't think that oh, hey, I got look at these hands Wow, that's not what I thought. I didn't think that I had to get the healing or anything I just thought that you know, I prayed and then then you know, god did the rest It could have been that he was just out and just you know got up. I have no idea But I think today people take that I've got to get the healing send in your money Like you said god still heals God still moves. It's just is he moving through through people? Like that, I think that he can not that he necessarily is and so if you show me Then fine, but you just can't show me anything as why why john says Test every spirit not every spirit comes from From god and so how do we do so? Well, if it doesn't line up with the word of god that came from holy spirit Well, then why am I going to listen to it? Why am I going to why bother? Cory, I'm just telling you brother. That sounds a whole lot like cessationism. Oh, man. Well, listen, I'm That's why that's why I have my own conference the g2 conference because we're almost like g3 But not quite so that that that's the reason why so Matter of fact, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to say I'm gonna have to send you one of my mugs man I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to send you one of my please do Please do please do Um I'll have and on the back I'll put the g2 on on the back of it Let me let me let me cover a couple of these. Um There was a question that someone put oh, here's a question for you Uh, this lady says my husband still thinks like this in terms of gifts and so forth. Uh, what should I do? Yeah, yeah That's that's a that's a challenging situation. Um, you know, I I I would say pray Uh for him Continue to study the scriptures. Uh, you know and and and allow god to do his work. It's not an easy deal It's not an overnight process. I didn't come out of it overnight. My wife and I were in that space together Uh, I I came out, uh, you know in in that environment. Cory, you know A lot women kind of lead and drive and uh, all the you know the spiritual things in in the household And that that was the case for me and I had a praying wife now She was praying for me to take spiritual headship and leadership and then when that happened Uh, it's tough because that's not always what uh, it's it's not always what what they what they anticipated it being right and so Uh, she she prayed for me for years. And so, you know, I I I would come into Uh, a clear a clarity about the doctrine that Justin Peters you mentioned him before his ministry was a big part of helping me Navigate that and she was still very convinced that all of these gifts were for today. And so Rather than try to to tell her, you know, you you're not woman. You're not gonna do this I'm I'm gonna tell you, you know Rather than do that, you know, we we continue to search the scriptures continue to read together and study and There's still some areas and aspects of of her walk where where she's you know, she's still not quite sure She she she'd probably be closer to where where where Cory is on on some of these issues and um, we have conversations about that And you know, her her practice looks looks very uh, looks looks like a cessationist, but she she would say well I'm I'm I'm open, you know, I'm I'm open to these ideas being and I'm not trying to Uh twist her arm or drag her kicking and screaming into what I believe I I'm I'm I'm comfortable about what scripture will do I I have faith in and what god is is able to do by a spirit and it's we're on a journey I'm not where I once was and I'm definitely not where where I hope to be in the days to come So I think I think grace in that in that those instances is is really key and prayer and continue to study in the word Well, a couple things one we're going to get Virgil's wife here for the next episode of the g2 conference uh, but two I think what what what you said was key because it was the same with me Uh, what led me away from from from that at least from being charismatic in pentecostal Was the same thing with you the scriptures If I see the scriptures as a matter of fact When you start pointing out and pointing out the let's say you show a clip of someone doing something just outrageous Okay, fine. Is that god? Well, who are you to say that that's not god? Who are you to judge that? Okay? I'm nobody I'm nobody But what about the scriptures and so let's compare what they're doing what we're saying Do we see that in scriptures? Yeah, but god can do what he wants to you you're right He can do what he wants to he can take your head off and put it on on a cow But will he he can do what he wants to but as he said what he's going to do and what he's not going to do Has he shown us a pattern or shown us how he's gonna act? So let's just compare What he's doing what he said what what we see because Just like it's possible that that could be god So I asked and I was asked this question. Is it all so possible that they can be fakes? They can be frauds Who do you think Jesus was speaking above and who do you think about? The other pastors in the bible speak about false teachers And false prophets and so forth. Who do you who do you think? What does that look like today if that's the case? And so if if it like you said it's a process I didn't stop My belief in being you know charismatic or Pentecostal overnight It's matter as a matter of fact my former pastor who's my mentor Drugged me kicking and screaming my wife when we moved down here to Dallas My wife was going to a uh to a christian college and he was her professor And he would she would come home and she would talk about him and how smart he was and this and that or whatever I'm getting jealous. Who's this dude you're talking about? Yeah, you know what? Let me see him And right he would talk to me and ask me questions and he would walk me through the description I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm yeah, whatever. I don't I don't believe you because I've got a vested interest in proving you wrong before the eyes of my wife, right And he just went through the scriptures like, okay, I can't I can't fight that he can't what but I can't fight. What about Don't go on at the man is Even when I knew he was right. I wouldn't know. No, no, but then after a while Am I going to go off of what I think what I believe or the scriptures? and I've got to go out. I don't care what the experience is like. We all have had experiences And matter of fact, every last one of us have had several experiences where we felt a certain way Thought something was real and realized later. Yeah, I don't I used to love bobby. I don't love bobby I used to love mary. I don't love mary. I thought I did not can't stand him. Well at the time felt real so And you can talk yourself in the believing something especially if you're in the crowd Jen yourself up and think that this is what it is and god is going to do great things And you get really excited and you tell yourself it's going to be that way That's how a lot of these multi-level marketing companies grow because you feel a certain way about it feels real And you feel like you've got the ability to call these things into being something that's not I you spend all this money and then four years later you've lost all this money lost all this hope and next thing You know and jesus whatever So I think I think the best way whatever you could do Sister is just simply give the scriptures. That's all you that's all you can do and because it's the husband You can't do it the same way necessarily that that that that a man can do it But you still can't do it because he loves you and listens to you right and you said well What about this go help him ask him to walk you through the scriptures Ask him what's this mean and dawg on if your husband subscribers mark christian. That's the problem right there That's the main problem. That's the main problem and we'll talk about that at the next g2 conference Let me ask you this question. This is this is a bit controversial I've got to answer in response to this, but I want to I want to I want to get you on this I think I don't think it's I don't think it's apples Apples, I think it's apples or oranges. I think as a matter of fact John mccarthur isn't saying what the with this person's what they heard other folks saying Says can you comment on mccarthur saying you can bake a cake for gay wedding? Have you heard this before? I have not no. I've not heard that He was he was asked About Is it a sin if a christian baker bakes a cake for a gay wedding? Now I've asked this question before and I remember one someone even asked me this question. I don't I don't know I mean, I I get what you're going. I see where that might be confusing But I don't think that at all if I had a bakery And a gay couple comes in and they want to buy a cake Buy 10 of them buy as many as you want to We're gonna we're gonna serve this cake at a at a at a gay wedding. Okay Do what you want to with it as long as the check clears Now i'm not gonna put two men on it I'm not gonna decorate it and and says god god loves gays. I'm not gonna do that Right, but in that sense, that's not the same as affirming or or intentionally going out to make a cake for Gay people that's that's different and and what john mccArthur said was the same way Is if you had a grocery store and a gay couple comes in and someone who you know is gay Wants to buy some of your food. What are you gonna do? I'm gonna I'm gonna take these vegetables back to we're having a gay club I don't know if this is necessarily a gay club meeting, but we're having a meeting And can I what are you gonna do you're gonna you're gonna sell it to them? Because most folks that come in and buy your products are not saved anyway Right, I'm not gonna make one and he was not because john mccArthur was not saying that I'm specifically making it Just to show my support for them. That's not what that's not what he said. So I just want I just wanted to clear that Um, I've heard that of of recent with the whole Um, allister big stuff and so the two different things two totally different things Um, but how often do you get attacked? Um, because You're talking about me. Yeah, you how often do you get attacked because of because of john mccArthur? Oh gosh, um Not often. I you know, I I do enough You know enough of my own You know saying saying my own things carrying my own weight That you know, the stuff people come at me about is the stuff that I say and and I try not to Um, I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm a I'm a car. I'm a carther apologist Like like anyone I I love and respect him In fact, you know on on my wall over here if you you could see it There's a there's a there's a picture of me and and and dr. MacArthur's office And so I have every respect for him as ministry has been been incredibly beneficial to my life and In the relationship that I've been able to Uh to to have with him as a result of the of the role that I have the position I have has been has been tremendous But I'm not going to say that that he can't be wrong About things or get things wrong. Um, you know, or there'd be things that that that disappoint me about about ministry You know as it relates to to him But I don't no one comes at me about john john mccarthur. I don't try to defend John mccarthur. I don't I don't I don't defend things that I've that I don't say I'm I spent enough time defending what what virgil says then then to defend what others what others say There's a lot of folks who like to pull me into Conversations, what do you think about or why wouldn't you say, you know, as if I have some responsibility to? To cape up for someone I don't Uh, I I try to I try to take care of me and that's that's plenty of of trouble on any given day So I I'm I'm doing pretty good there. Yeah, I have I have said before You're not going to find a man Who you respect who at some point in time isn't going to say something wrong Or get something wrong and so That's all you need to know just like you yourself. I'm going to say something and get something wrong from time to time Um, so so will virgil so so will mccarthur so will um washers So will whoever you name the person if his name is not jesus he at some point time is going to get something wrong We see peter Getting something wrong and paul confronts him Does that mean peter is to be avoided forever? No as a matter of fact, we see apollos We don't know what he what he got wrong But he was getting something wrong and then and nice and then a nice Not in a nice spiral. Um What was the couple's names? Um The husband and wife I can't think of her name my mind just went my mind just went blank. What is the name not not? Because they want to call her a pastor Uh Oh lord, what is her name my mind just went blank all of a sudden aquila priscilla aquila They go and they You call I had I was I was pulling out my handy dandy I was like I'm right there with them. I'm having I'm having a senior moment as well How come how come how come the name aquila in priscilla is not coming up? I don't know. I don't know but but thank you the chat the chat got me dutch. Thank you Joshua. Thank you you guys. Thank you j. Thank you We don't know what a paul's was teaching but After that he goes on to be beneficial. So whatever he was teaching something in error And came back and so it can it can happen I made this statement and people just lost their mind. Listen paul Didn't sin. Let me say it again clearly paul didn't sin But paul's judgment about Barnum not barnum is about luke was not correct He thought that he would not be useful to ministry Immediately after he makes that statement barnum is and luke go off and they are very useful We got we have a book two books actually bought because of luke and then paul calls for him back I didn't say he sinned But so you can be wrong you can have every paul himself says that he that he struggles That he has his struggles and so forth. So that's everybody moses David Abraham go through the faith hall of fame and you're gonna see people who did some things Abraham didn't believe until genesis 15 And then still told people that twice that sarah was his sister. So right it happens But the only one person that is infallible is Jesus and so if will macArthur say something wrong that we disagree. Yeah, we'll we'll lie Not not likely. I probably won't I probably won't ever again Um, I might and if I if I say something wrong and you think it's wrong, it's probably you But No, we listen and my wife would tell you my kids would tell you I I get stuff wrong I I get stuff wrong and I've learned if I get stuff wrong ignore what they just said just keep on moving. So I don't like when folks say because you like this person you got to impugn this person forever You got to throw him away. But I've got I've got to dislike this person as much as you dislike him I'm not right. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm with you. I um, you know, I I completely agree that I said that Based upon a the the initial conversation with about allister beg I think I think you can be you know, you don't have to throw people away. You can you can say, hey Here's where there's value and here's a her ministry Here's where they get it wrong. We need to be cautious if you know, I won't go back to listen to allister beg about issues related to Transgenderism, but but I think he'd be solid on you know on exegeting a text of scripture and and and the like and Know knowing where people's weaknesses are maybe where they have some blind spots is always helpful I'm the same way, uh, you know, there's there's things that folks will will say Hey, he Virgil got this wrong or Virgil got that wrong or uh, he said this or he said that Especially when especially when you write because I write a lot here lately Probably over the course of last year and a half I've done a lot of writing and people It's funny. You'll go to their websites or on on online or on youtube and I'll see An article that I that I wrote and someone's kind of tearing it apart. Hey, he's got this wrong He got that wrong and that's that's fine. I think we could I think we can do that in good faith And and and not have to throw people away do so with grace And and at the same time recognize that that we're all we're all in christ Let me ask I got one last question to ask From the audience and I think this is a good question Katrina asks she says, uh, why does believing in the gifts necessarily means that one Doesn't believe in the this official scripture. Who said one has to negate the other? Yeah, how do you I think that's a I think that's a great question. Um, I think that what you what you find is that In in today's charismatic movement rather than relying on scripture Uh, what people do is they come to church to hear a fresh word from god You hear it said that I I got a fresh word from the lord, right? And if if you've got a fresh word from the lord and it's truly from the lord That word is equivalent to scripture, right? We have the god breathed word of scripture. We have your revelation So so those are those are now on on par with one another and more times and not if you really take note of what of what If you understand what true expositional preaching sounds like and is and you compare that with what you experience in today's charismatic movement You'll recognize that there's that there's and not not simply scriptures insufficient, but they absolutely abandoned scripture uh, Cory, I was listening to the to the the video you did on on jakes, uh, and his christmas christmas message, right where he was addressing the Uh, the issue with him and and shon, uh, p diddy combs and that whole thing and he started out by saying, you know, I'm If you tuned in to you know to just catch a show you could tune out now or something along those lines And then he then he blocked it and banned it I went I went and listened to that entire sermon And it absolutely he absolutely butchered The text of scripture and and made the whole thing all about him Uh, I was so upset at how he manipulated his audience to the degree that I thought I've got to sit down and really write an article about this and about the ongoing manipulation Uh, that's done in the name of the holy spirit a holy spirit revelation a quote-unquote fresh word from the lord Uh, and and and that's the opposite of scripture sufficient if scripture is sufficient I don't need your word from the lord. Uh, I don't I don't need your fresh revelation I've got I've got the more sure word of of scripture And and so it does it have to be I I think it I think one one this There's going to be one that takes precedent over the other and if you're dependent if scripture's Insufficient then you'll need a fresh word if scripture is sufficient. It won't require anything else Yeah, you'll you'll know how you'll know how much you value the gifts the true gift Of the spirit because the true gift of the spirit that we have that we all have in equal measure Is his word and if you value that Um, then you and you compare that with what you see within you're fine If because of what you see and if you have the honesty to say not not necessarily you can treat anyone else If you have the honesty To say okay, what i'm saying and 90 of Of those that say they also believe in the gifts that line with scripture will then fine Then fine if you can be if you can be that honest The two don't have to be separate But as long as what you're seeing is as long as what you're calling A move of the spirit as long as it lines up with the scriptures with an amen But if it doesn't and you're not going to call out well, then maybe you're not that Um married to the text as you would as as a person would think so, but anyway, uh, but yeah I so so what vergell said I agree with anyway guys. This is wonderful. I have got to get ready to go I am so grateful again that uh that vergell joined us again guys go to the g3 youtube channel Um and to get his books make sure you guys go to amazon. Where else could they go to get your books? amazon's the best place to go you can go to amazon.com and Just just uh type up the tech you type up my name vergell walker darryl harrison You could find it that way You could type up the the titles of the books just thinking about the state Uh, why are you afraid and the new one that just dropped? Which is uh just thinking about ethnicity and so Any one of those books are available on on amazon You can go to g3min.org The letter g the number 3 m i n dot org I just in fact, I have a brand new Blog article that dropped today Is about it's about a biblical view of illegal immigration and so The sovereignty of borders and and kind of unpack that so that's uh, that's something that there's always a there's always a new blog There's always new articles. There's always great resources That you could find there. I'm going to after I finish my next appointment I'm going to go ahead and drop a link to all of those things in the in the description Uh in the meantime, I'm going to do my best. I'm going to see if I can get teeny jakes on here for the next Uh g2 conference that would that be wonderful get teeny jakes and then mike Todd on on the next g2 conference So anyway guys, I love you all so much. I look forward to seeing you all again If the lord stays the same in the meantime guys god bless you