 I'm just gonna look at Shams for today's show because behind the scenes there's a lot of unprofessionalism going on here and it's coming from one area and one area only. Everyone I'd like to introduce the panel today, Stadium Insider Shamsherania, professional, always good posture. This is Taylor Parsons. We don't have good posture though. I know. Mine is awesome. Lou Wells back. Rockin' a really nice outfit. I love it. It's very in. We'll get to that tomorrow. Sweats. Very in. You know what else is in? Tons of money. No. Don't look at me. Big giant contract, Shams. This is a doozy. Eric Spolster, his deal was quietly. He was in the last year of his deal, expiring contract, but you know in Miami, they view Eric Spolster as their next Pat Riley. They view him in that same light. He has a chance to be a Pat Riley-esque predecessor in Miami when you think of not only a coach for them, but also potentially personnel say down the line. But he has agreed to an eight year, $120 million contract extension with the heat. He's one of the best coaches in the league. We know two-time NBA champion with the heat in 2012 and 2013. He's top 20 already, all-time in coaches, in coaching wins. He's going to be around for decades to come. And so Eric Spolster, when it's all said and done, he's going to be up there for the most wins of all time. Just because year in, year out, no matter what his talent level is, he gets that heat team to compete at such a high level. So shout out Eric Spolster today. Is there a particular reason why yesterday, I mean it just felt like, okay, that's a nice little bit of news, but why not end of the season? They've been negotiating. I mean, you want to get Eric Spolster locked up. This is a guy, especially in that organization, they're not looking elsewhere. There's not a changing of the guards there. There's not anywhere else they want it to go besides getting this deal done. And they've been talking about it for the better part of the last couple of months. Fully guaranteed. That's how coaches roll in the NBA. Eight years. You like it? I love it. I love it. I think coaches get a roll deal most of the time, right? They get fired because a player doesn't like them and sometimes it's their fault, but sometimes it's a GM protecting their own ass or it's just, they're the fall guy. Eric Spolster, he's one of the best young coaches. He's been around forever. From where he came from and how he started to where he is now, and you hear a lot of things about, you know, heat culture. He was a huge part of that. Him, Pat Riley, some of the other front office, so he deserves this and you heard rumors about it last year and everything he's done, but the way he develops players, the way, you don't hear about Pacers culture. You hear heat cultures and so, you know what I mean? Like, so this is, I'm happy for him because coaches, it's such a player's league, so I love to see a coach like this that's put in the time, put in the work, started from the bottom and completely got, you know, there you go. Finish it. Keep going. From the bottom. Now he's there. Now he's there. Now he is there. I love it. Another note, I mean, Mati Williams, I think a lot of his Mati Williams set this trend of coaches. He set the bar when he signed that five year, six year, seventy eight million dollar deal with the Pistons. That was a massive deal. That was the biggest contract in coaching history. Then Greg Popovich comes out. He signs his five year, eighty plus million dollar deal. Now Eric Spolster, he's getting the most length when you think about eight years. I mean, you're not, not seven, not six, not, you know, you're going eight years. You see what I did there, right? Eight years for Eric Spolster. That's a long time. Like he's not going anywhere. And it's funny because like you said, it's like free agency for players as coaches now. You see a coach and Mati Williams get a bag. Spoh knew he was next. He knew he was getting that. And when you pay a player, you pay a coach, you're realistically, you're paying them for what they've done and you're hoping they continue to do that. But you never know. Like it's not, you know, he's going to be there forever. He's going to move when he is done. He's going to go to the front office. Like Sean said, he's going to be in Miami for a really, really long time. And he deserves it. He's created this whole system down there where people want to go. If you're a 10 day fringe guy, if you're a second round pick, I'm hoping that the Miami Heat draft piece so they can develop me like they've done with multiple kids. Where is he, Lou, on your coaching ladder in the NBA right now? Absolutely one of the best, you know, just look at the body of work that he's been able to establish down in Miami. Started as a video coordinator, won his first championship as an assistant coach, then you win two more as a head coach. And he's always had this identity where they find these guys in the draft and they kind of somewhat overachieve. Yeah, they do. You know, so they've created a great coach in there. They've created something that they can call theirs. It's definitely unique. It's different. You know, I haven't played a, played on a team where body fat is such a thing where being in shape is such a thing. I think that's necessary when you're playing in a city like Miami, Florida, and you got to try to keep your bathing suit all the time. You know, you got to keep guys focused and they've been able to have an identity and not culture created where guys are buying into that and they've had a lot of success. And I think a lot of that comes off the back of their exposure. So he's definitely one of the, one of the best. One of the best, like where we, where are we talking? One, two, one of the best because, you know, you got to put pop in there as one of the, the recent guys. And then if we want to go historical, obviously you're going to put the Phil Jackson's of the world, the Steve Kerr's of the world in that, in that conversation. So he's right there in that mix. I like Spode too, because he can develop you. He can relate to you as a young guy, but then also we've seen videos him and Jimmy Butler during a game going at it. He's not backing down from, he doesn't care who you are. If you're not playing and, you know, living and breathing their standards, he's going to jump you. And that's how you gain respect in the locker room. And clearly he does that. Congratulations. That's a, it's a nice deal. I like it. And in Miami, tax free. Yeah, I've got to get those taxes in there. That's always sexy talk. All right, we're going to get to the first game. Shoms was at this game. Do you have fun? I was. All right, for enough. Great game. Shoms, wrapters, Lakers. The fourth quarter was nuts. Lakers win this one, 132, 131. All five Lakers starters had double figures. Four Raptors starters had over 20 points. Anthony Davis, 41, 11 and six. LeBron with 22, 12 and five. Siatcom, 25, RJ Barrett had 23, 10 and five. He seems to be doing well back in his Canadian land. But the Lakers in the fourth quarter had 23 free throws. Fourth quarter alone. And Raptors head coach, Darko Ryakovich, was not happy after the game. Nailed it. That's outrageous. What happened tonight, this is completely BS. This is shame. Shame for the referees, shame for the league to allow this. 23 free throws for them. And we get two free throws in the fourth quarter. Like how to play the game. I understand respect for old stars and all of that, but we have star players on our team as well. How's possible as Scotty Barnes, who is old star caliber player in this league, he goes every single time to the rim with force and trying to get to the rim without flapping and not trying to get foul calls. He gets two free throws for the whole game. How's that possible? How are you gonna explain that to me? They had to win tonight? If that's the case, just let us know so we don't show up for the game. Just give them a win. What currency is that fine gonna be in? Canadian or American? Wow. Those fans are 25 to 35. I don't think they're gonna go above and beyond for him, but I got an accent for me. Yeah, he went off, that was one of the best. I say this. I mean, there's a disparity of 21 free throws. That is a lot. Just prep it, yeah, it's insane. You can't do 23 free throws in the fourth quarter. When both teams are playing physical, they have a lot of downhill drivers in Toronto that just continue to attack the rim and they got two free throws in the fourth to 23. He's got a right to be pissed. And I love it as a new young coach that most people don't know his name. You know, you pronounced it perfectly. I love it. If I'm quickly, if I'm RJ Barrett and I'm new to this city and this guy, one of the first games is just going to bat for us like this, I love it as a player. And he's got a right to be pissed. Again, I understand everyone thinks that Lakers get the whistle. The NBA wants the Lakers to win. This is hard to disagree when the discrepancy is 23 to two free throws in the fourth quarter. That's bananas. Yeah, like Chandler said, if you're RJ Barrett and your coach is fired up like this, it makes it easy to want to play for a guy like that. All series is a side. I know it's coming. That's a hilarious clip. What? He's mad. That is a little he's pissed. I kind of love it. Love it. It's like from his eyes, you can tell he's mad. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing it again. It was earlier to taint him. But listen, he's right. It's hard to win a basketball game when you're allowed to shoot 23 free throws in the fourth quarter alone. As a fan, you go to that game, that game stopping every 10, 15 seconds. The fourth quarter was a drag. I'm sure it was a drag. You were there. Did you stay for that entire game? I was there for the whole game. It was a good ending. It was a couple possessions away. I mean, Toronto had a real legitimate chance. That's probably the main reason why the coach went off like that. They had a chance to win that game. They had multiple stretches down the stretch where they were in it. Shout out to Angel Russell. He didn't speak to reporters, I guess, for the second straight game, but he's had six, three-pointers over the last couple games. He was back in the lineup. And AD, obviously, the 40 and 10 game. Anytime anything, Davies goes off like that. This Lakers team is just totally different. Yeah, this interview's taken all the credit here, but AD had 41, 11, 13 of 17 from the field, and 13 of 14 from the free throw line. So this interview is obviously the headline, rightfully so, but they had no answer for this. He dominated the glass. He dominated the paint all night long, and this is the version of him that we'd love to see that we just want to keep seeing. So you guys touch on a bunch of things. We're going to put a pin in all that because we're going to get back to you. The real quick thing I want to ask though about the officiating specifically is because, you know, we just saw the NFL dealing with their issues with officiating. The NBA now, this is the second one of these this week where it seems like we're talking more about officiating than the games themselves. How do you fix that, exactly? I mean, I think that they have to obviously put in the plate where they're doing the two minute warning. They're correcting the calls. They're kind of, there needs to be some sort of consequence or punishment for these referees because the game is about the players and you never want to see the whistleblown at the end of a game, especially to this effect where it's 23 free throws to the fourth quarter to one. That's too much. There's too much of a gap. And it is, it's unfair. How could the Toronto Raptors win this game when they're getting to line two time and they're getting 21 extra opportunities to get points on the board that they're not. So it's definitely not fair. It's not right. Let the guys play. This is what the people came to see. This is what people want. Even as a fan watching it, as media, you don't want to watch that many free throws. It's exhausting. It's boring as hell. So I think they got to swallow the whistle a little bit at the end, but at least make it somewhat balanced. Need some consistency. Yeah. Like every summer you're hearing about the rules committee meeting and changing some kind of rule, putting something in, taking something out. We need some consistency, especially for the fan base. You know, it's always something going on when it comes to the referees where you have points of emphasis. One year is going to be traveling. The next year is going to be flopping or it's going to be anti-flopping. Now you're putting take files in and teams are getting free throws. It's hard to keep up with. And I think that's where the frustration comes in as a fan because it's so much turnover and inconsistency with the rules. You don't know what to expect anymore. And I think that's one of the things that the NBA has to fix. The game is never going to be played perfect. It's never going to be refereed perfect. So let's stop trying to put all of these things in to make it like that. You know, it's not going to happen. I think it's just unfair for the fans. And again, as a player, if I'm not getting called for a hand check for three quarters, then all of a sudden I'm getting called in the fourth quarter for a hand check. That's not right. You have to be consistent throughout at least those 48 minutes of the game. However you start officiating it, that's how you have to finish it. You can't just make up your mind and pick and choose what players or what time to call foul. That's, first of all, just watching that many free throws in the fourth quarter seems awful. But you mentioned D'Angelo Russell. He only played the 17 minutes. I know he's not really wanting to talk to anybody about any of it. Are we just waiting for him to get traded at this point? The Lakers have to be open-minded about him, about there's multiple, I mean, if you're going to get in position, if you want to play like a DiGianti Murray, you're going to need to stack up some contracts. And D'Angelo Russell obviously is the guard that probably, you know, you would look at at his salary. He's been in and out of the lineup over the last couple of weeks. I am curious, does he get another chance to start? How do they view his role? I think that's been a big question around this team is that starting lineup of D'Angelo Russell, Austin Reeves, Jared Vanderbilt, LeBron James, Anthony Davis, they played a total of three minutes this entire season. I know Jared Vanderbilt missed time to start the year. Then when he got back to Angelo Russell in and out, but the coaching staff has not gone back to that starting lineup. And that makes, went to the Western Conference finals last year. So I think it'll be interesting to see how the next few weeks go. Anthony Davis has had a great season so far, last night specifically 41, 11 and six. And I know that George Carl, friend of the show recently said that Anthony Davis is the real problem for this team and it's not Darvin' Ham. And I get it, coaches standing up for coaches, but you can't say that this season, can you? No, and he's on the floor and he's playing. And when he's playing, he's playing at an elite level and all NBA levels. So to put this on, Anthony Davis is ridiculous. He's been, I mean, him and LeBron, obviously they've both had great years, but he's been the most dominant, consistent player all season long. So that's not fair to do it. It's not fair to give it on Darvin' Ham. Just a collective effort where even D'Angelo Russell, I feel like he's getting a lot of the blame. Is he gonna get traded? That's frustrating as a player to not know the uncertainty of your future on the team. I'm sure that's why D'Lo's skipping media, not happy. You see, you know, his facial expressions are not great on the court because he doesn't know. He doesn't know if he's gonna be there next week. Why, how could he fully buy into what they're doing right now and all he's hearing is that he's about to get traded. So it's a difficult situation, but again, I think this team has the talent. They just need to find that the rotations, find the consistency and move forward like they did last year. Uh-oh. Why do we care what George Carl has to say about the Lakers? I was just, you know. Front of the show. He's front of the show? He's a guy who's coached and... All right, cool, but like, wanna top all-time, you know, when he coaches. All of that is great, but as far as this is concerned, George Carl is in when it comes to rock. Yeah, as far as this concern, you know, he's known to be somewhat of a troll on Twitter. He is good at that. Yeah, he always takes it. To me, it seems like he always takes a position against players. Yeah. And that's the part of it that's concerning to me, and especially when we have to discuss it. I've never seen him say anything positive about any of his former players. Obviously, he hasn't said anything positive about current players. Did he even coach Anthony Davis? Does he have a relationship with Anthony Davis? So why even post this on your social media for it to be discussed? I just, I don't know, I'm not a George Carl fan when it comes to this type of stuff. I'm confused. It is tough for this, because AD, I mean, look, there have been many seasons where you could make this argument about Anthony Davis. He's only missed two games. You know, it's one of those situations. It's like, you can pick on your little brother with somebody else. Right. Yeah, maybe some people may agree with this take, but it's like not from you though. Interesting. All right, so the messenger here is what's bothering you the most. Yeah, I just, I don't even agree with the message necessarily. I don't agree with the message either. I think we are tough on AD a lot, but it's not this one. The Siakam part of things, I feel like we're gonna do this all the way up until the trade deadline. Who knows if it keeps going after that, but they seem to be figuring something out here. Is there any chance now that Siakam will stay? There's always a chance. Right. If they're not able to find a trade for Pascal Siakam, if their price is not met, like let's say the Kings for example, the Kings made an offer. They got to a certain threshold without having an idea. It was unclear whether Pascal Siakam was gonna commit to Sacramento long-term. You know, that conversation wasn't had, but if you're the Kings, you're negotiating as if you don't know, there's only a certain threshold you're gonna get to, and if all their teams are on the league, if they're not sure Pascal Siakam is gonna stay, he's gonna go, because he's a free agent at the end of the year, what will that final offer be? So yeah, like if he's still on that roster at the end of the trade deadline, which is less than a month away, February 8th, could the, the Raptors really only move at that point is letting him go into free agency, where you risk losing him for nothing, like Fred Van Vliet, or you sign him to an extension. So it's definitely in play for him to stay, but whether it's the Kings, the Pacers, there will be a market, I think over the next few weeks, it'll ramp up, and I think as we get closer to the trade deadline, could like the Warriors, the Warriors have a level of interest in Pascal Siakam, what I'm told, but right now they need to figure out internally, Dreymond Green's on his way back, see how he looks with Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan Kominga and his groups around Stephan Curry and Clay Thompson. So right now there's gonna be a little bit of a patient approach from some teams trying to continue to see what they have. To me, it's gotta be one of the two, right? This team's not like it's in shambles, like they have a good young nucleus going forward, you know what I mean? I love half, like a lot of their players, so don't let just Siakam walk. Either trade now, get some assets from Sacramento, go and stay or sign him. He's young enough to be a building block for this team. And now you had R.J. Barrett, you had quickly, you have Scotty Barnes, who's kind of the face of their franchise moving forward. I like Gary Trent, what he can provide, Boucher. So they have the talent there. If anything, just signs Siakam and then started building around this nucleus you have now, don't just let him walk for nothing. But does it bother you as a player that you've been talked about as potential trade bait for so long and now you're like, oh, now I'm staying here? Yeah, it's just part of the business. What do you think? Well, yeah, what do you think, Lou? It was like F to F. I mean, you're constantly been talked about now for two seasons, two and a half seasons? Three? Two and a half years. Like three trade deadlines? Buddy Healed and Miles just do it already. Get a whole career. Yeah, rip the band-aid off. Just do it already, because this, it gets taxing after a while. Yeah. You know, your name constantly in trade talks and you just, you just, it's just over your head, it's a black cloud. It's hard to operate like that. It's hard to be successful like that, you know? So if you're going to do it, just do it already. Yeah, it's month-to-month lease situation as well. One note on Toronto as well, Yacob Pertle. They could have used him with Anthony Davis. I had one person around the Raptor say last night, we could have used Yacob Pertle as well. Because the way AD went off against, I mean, a lot of the time in the fourth quarter, RJ Barrett and Scotty Barnes. I mean, those guys, those guys AD's physicality doesn't really line up with that, but he's going to be out a few weeks with an ankle sprain. And so that's a, that is a tough loss. When you think about the Raptors, you know, can they stay with their winning ways and where are they at with that? Well, a Raptor that did finally get traded. OG Ananobi, things are going quite nicely for him in New York. Last night taken on the Portland Trailblazers. Easy, 112, 84, Nix, 5-0 since Ananobi got there. Six of the Nix players were in double figures. He finished with 23 in 29 minutes. Julius Randall with a 28 and 7. They're 5-0 since this trade went down. An average margin of victory about 20 points there as well. I mean, I don't know if there are more moves coming. Right now, things look like they're doing all right. Where are we on the Nix legit contenders? I think they got better from this trade. And what's interesting is this, and this isn't a knock on RJ Barrett. I just think RJ Barrett and Julius Randall, they just didn't work together. Both mid-range kind of wings scored. They can go, they can post up. They weren't elite shooters. This makes sense. OG is not necessarily that much better of a player than RJ Barrett, but he fits with this system. He gives them a lot more of a presence on the defensive end. He's more of a role player that can play off of Julius Randall. That can play off of Jalen Brunson while still getting you 20 to 25 points. So I think this is a great trade. This could be like a Kings Pacers trade where this works out for both. The Toronto Raptors got two really good players. I said it last week, I think the Nix are gonna miss quickly more than RJ Barrett just because of the fit and the system, but I like it. Again, personnel-wise, it just makes sense. It provides more of a simple option. It gives them a way better defense and he seems to be meshing well. And he's just one of those guys where you can plug him into any system and he can do well. He's a versatile guy, so I love it. They're clearly winning. I don't know if this puts them in contender talk, but they're not gonna be an easy out. And I love the make-up. The Hartensteins had a great year. Chinzos had big games. So their role players are also stepping up. McBride now is playing more confident ever since he got his extension. So I like what they did. I like it for both teams. What do you think about what Jalen and Julius Randall have done? I know that we started the season with they can't be one and one A, one B, it's just not gonna be enough, whatever. Something's happening here though. It's transitioning, the team's playing differently. It's more fluid. Has anything changed your mind from what you've seen? Yeah, they're rolling. I think OG gives them an opportunity to play with the floor being a little bit spaced out now. They got areas to operate in this working form. I still don't think they're title contenders. I think the East still goes through, still goes through Boston or it's gonna go through Milwaukee. Those are still gonna be the two top dogs in there. But this New York Knicks team look like they got something to say and they're gonna be a tough out. All right, let's play GM for a second. You're Leon Rose. What are you adding, if anything? I think he's good at this point. Yeah, I mean, now you have your core, right? Do you still shop around and go for a Donovan Mitchell? Go for something like that and really get that star player? Why would you add Donovan Mitchell though? Okay, you decide. I just think it's the Knicks. It's New York City. You want to try to get the best possible player. With Jalen Brunson, does that not sort of feel like you're doubling up a little bit? How does that work? It's different. Jalen Brunson is great and I think he's great. He's not an all NBA player. I vote no. Say that for the summer. Let this group ride it out. Now at least you have your core. You have your pieces. You made the big move. I think RJ Barrett, again, just never made sense with this personnel, with this roster. Now you have something. You have something you're committed to the defensive end. They have a nice, deep, versatile team. I love their bench. Like we talked about Hardenstein. They're going to miss Mitchell Robinson. That's 10 and 10 that they could really use right now. But I like what they did. And again, like Lou said, I don't think there's any urgency to make a move. But again, it's Leon Rose. It's the Knicks. They're always going to try and get the top dog with top free agent. Listen, you got two guys averaging 27 and 28 right now. You're going to add a third guy that's going to want to average 27 and 28. That ball is going to get sticky. And mess up the system. Yeah, it's going to mess up everything. They're starting to roll. Five and 0 since... I think the underrated thing that we heard was all of these wins are by double digits. Yep. So they're rolling. 20. Yeah, I don't shake that tree right now. The Mitchell Robins, I mean, fan favorite. People obviously are missing him being out there. He's missing being out there because he's all emo on his social media and it's kind of hilarious. What are we looking at? Any chance for playoffs? The Knicks are going into this expecting he's going to be done for the season. Okay. And so we'll see if the league grants them their disabled player exception of almost $8 million, that's to be determined the leagues. Doctors are reviewing that, which would give them another asset. But they've got eight first round picks to trade. They have MN4 New Year's expiring contract that they can use in trades. And I think that is the one appealing part of the roster right now is you have an expiring contract, you have a bunch of draft picks. Can you get a guard to come off your bench and play a playmaking role on this team? Because like you said, Michelle, like there's a Donovan Mitchell, Dejante Murray, do guys like that make sense on this roster? Because they need the ball in their hands. Dejante Murray has shown he can play with the ball as we know Donovan Mitchell can as well. But if Jalen Brunson is your guy, you probably want to keep him in that role. And then at worst case scenario, if you want to bring a playmaker coming off your bench to fill that Emanuel quickly role, I think that's where the Knicks are looking at, right? Go get a Jordan Clarkson. Go get someone like that. Yeah, we both know on those other two ideas. I don't know if anyone's listening, but that's what we're doing. We're taking a quick break here. When we come back, we'll be joined by Earl Watson. Standing by, there he is. Good background. Run it back. Run it up, run it back, yeah. Run it up, run it back, yeah, yeah. Run it up, run it back. He's a 13-year NBA vet. He coached the Suns. He coached the Raptors. Earl Watson joining us right now. Earl, first of all, good morning. Thank you for the time. We're gonna jump right in because you were with the Raptors when OG Ananobi was there, obviously, he is doing quite nicely in his new home in New York. Were you shocked that the trade finally happened and what do you think about what he's done so far? I wasn't shocked that the trade happened. I knew the Raptors had to make moves. But what OG brings to the Knicks, I don't think RJ could possess. There's two different skill sets. OG is a great two-way player. And what OG is, in the late clutch, and you'll see it in the playoffs, he's a big-time three-point shot maker. So anytime we play games, you're being a clutch. Last three minutes of the fourth quarter, he comes over big-time threes. Earl, who do you like that trade for most, though? When you think about the Knicks, they get OG Ananobi, who you know very well. On the Raptor side, I saw them last night, RJ Barrett, man, you know, quickly, who do you like, you know, for this trade? I like the trade for both because RJ fits the timeline of Scottie Barnes. We understand that's his team moving forward. Even on the Pascal Siakum, you know, Saga is taking over the NBA. But for the Knicks, I think the Knicks get a player and people, I'm about to put on my coaching lens. And the last, OG can guard a five for three to five minutes, not an entire game. So in the last five minutes of a game, three minutes of a game, you can put OG on a four and he can switch on to a point guard. He can switch on to a center. He can switch on to a three. Whoever you want him to switch on to and he does a great job, just locking down that defender one-on-one defense. Coach, the trade deadline is less than a month away. There's a lot of rumors, a lot of talk always, but in particular, on Pascal Siakum, what's your take there? Do you think they should move him? And do you think he's a one-two option on a championship team? I believe so. I think whoever he gets moved to, he's going to be a two option because they pretty much already have that one option. Unless it's the Pacers, it'd be interesting to see Halliburton and Pascal down the stretch. Because I think what the Pacers is missing is a closer of size who can get to the free throw line, get to a rim or create a pass. And what Pascal is excellent at is patience in the paint. He's excellent in this new NBA era of being patient in the middle of the paint to force rotations to kick out for three-pointers or dunker passes for dunks and assists. And people kind of minimize his assist game, but he's up there with Jokic, he's up there with Yanis, he's up there with Luca as far as assisting throughout the paint. Oh, the Raptors, they look like they're moving away from Siakum and they're building around Scotty Barnes. Do you think that's a good idea? Do you think that's sustainable? I think when you talk about, is it sustainable? You know, we all know this is players. The timeline of players, and I never understood this, is never with skill, it's only with year and age. So when a team is built, they are built around the year of the player. If the player is a younger player, they'll put younger players around them to grow. And I think the reverse of it is the Lakers. If you remember the Lakers, Colby was so young when that championships with Vets because his skill was at that level. So it's a different lens that you look at it through when you talk about management, making moves and also prepare money to pay Scotty Barnes. When Nick Nurse was let go, there were reports of dysfunction in the locker room, like what's going on, you were there. Did you see any of that? I just think it's a tough, it was a tough year if you think about it, it's the same roster. They eventually made moves with that same roster. I think when you talk, when coaches are let go in that area and they bring in a new coach, the first 25 games is gonna tell you if the coach that was previously there was effective or was it just a roster move? I think after the lens of Nick Nurse, you see management take moves that can allow them to kind of advance their roster in a younger era, a younger phase, throughout Scotty Barnes, moving OG, potentially moving Pascal and it's the shift of the team. You were also the interim coach and then the full-time head coach of the Phoenix Suns when Devin Booker was a rookie. Did you see the signs back then that he had this ability that we're seeing right now where he's transformed into a superstar? Sam, do you remember back then, people thought I was crazy for playing Booker and starting Booker and believing in Devin? And I had a couple of quotes saying he'd be the best player in the Phoenix Suns history and people thought, because of my age and inexperience of coaching, I was just not ready for that role. Devin Booker possessed a couple of things for me early on and players understand this. He had a maturity to his game and his age. Devin is a mature, younger player and then he had a will and a skill that he could shoot but also had a work ethic that matched it. And the moment I knew Devin Booker was gonna be that guy is when I was an interim, I was a development coach. Devin Booker wasn't playing and at the end of every practice, he would play everyone who was staying one-on-one. He would beat him and as he would walk off the court, he would yell, I don't understand why I'm not playing. I was like, this kid is different. This kid is different. He had this fire and the tenacity he had that would go up into people's faces such as PJ Tucker in practice. And there'd be some physical altercations but the kid never backed down and that's when he knew he would be great. Yeah, coach, with Book, you believed in him. You said he could be the greatest son of all time. Is it true that you wanted to actually start him but the organization was stuck on Brandon Knight at the time? So, I guess that was the beginning and for me, I didn't understand politics and coaching. So, yes, that's true. So, here's what I didn't understand as a young man. I was 34 when I became the head coach. So, this is what I was straight from playing. This is what I didn't understand is that they had paid Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight, 60 million each. That's a ton of money in the back court. And here I am as a new coach and Brandon Knight's new deal, saying that Brandon Knight isn't better than the rookie who just dropped it, Devin Booker. And then here I am going in for Boston. I don't think I helped him get 70 because we only had eight players available. I mean, we all knew he was going to shoot the ball. It wasn't going to be the three G-league players we had coming off the bench. And then I'm getting Devin 70 in Boston with like 45 seconds remaining. And then that entire, I mean, think about it for players. We are taught to show no mercy on the other side no matter the score. We play into the buzzer ends, right? Well, in coaching, I guess there's a coaching code that I never knew about is we kind of like don't let guys reach that peak. And if the game is pretty much over, I'm a player's coach. I'm like, before the accident, he was like, was he trying to let him get 70? I said, no, hell no. I was trying to get into overtime and get him 80. Like, what are you talking about? I was going to settle for the 70. You know what? I never thought about that. There's like unwritten rules for coaches, but if you came straight from playing, how would you have ever known any of these rules? That's just not how it works. I wouldn't have made it in the league if I was that nice and kind to people. I would have been out and training camp. I mean, players have played in league understand as Kobe could have got 80 a bunch of times. And we never knew off field which is not let them play the fourth. And I guess I wasn't paying attention to that part. You guys had the fourth pick in the 17 draft. The Celtics took Tatum at three. But if he had still been up there, is there, I like pretending like, what could have been a world in which we would have seen Tatum and Booker and would have that, that would have been one of the greatest duos of all time. I actually got a phone call from Tatum and his agent maybe a year or two ago and they were talking about that draft and they were talking about how, I understood the landscape of future draftees just cause I have so many AAU teams for so long and I understood recruiting in the NBA was about to be the same as college because now everyone can pay, right? Players coming out in this era and this generation want to be developed quickly. They want to play, they want to put the game on the line. So instead of me hosting Jason Tatum at the facility, I took him out of the facility and we just got in my car and we visited every player at their house. Almost like a college recruiting trip. And we talked about the vision. We talked about how it was just, I didn't understand this, but I have such good relationship with players. I could just call them and tell them I'm coming over. I don't know how many players had a head coach come to their house in the summer and chill and watch TV and talk basketball with a potential draftee. But I took him around and I told him the vision and I told him we would be very legendary. They have two light-skinned killers on the court at the same time. Never look at him together. I just saw the vision. He had the greatest pre-drive work I'd ever seen in my life. He started with ball handling and then he went straight to the corner three. And I've been watching pre-drive workouts since I played. I would just go and watch. I was being intrigued with coaching and drafting and the other side of basketball. He ripped off 40 straight threes and then ownership stopped him. I thought he could have got at least 80 or 100. And after he ripped off the 40, I was like, what else do we need to see? This is over. This is the guy we need. He's like a taller version of Devin Booker, like put one on each wing. He's blessed so how to be a pointer and get a younger point guard and just ride off into the development sunset of that. Isn't it fun to think about what could have been? What we would have seen at that point? Current times, the Suns are struggling with the big three, two and four, so far with those guys. What do you think the issues are with that group and trying to find that rhythm? I mean, you two guys kind of know this. It's like, I'm surprised no one had brought this subject. I think arguably Devin Booker has been the best shooting guard NBA for a couple of seasons, right? And when you have a young shooting guard who is the best in the league at its prime, in my opinion, I'm not getting this from Devin even though my relationship with these players as a basketball ends, why would you move the best in the league to a different position? Why would you move Devin Booker before his prime when he's the elite before his prime into a point guard role? The minute we do that, we understand the NBA is a, it's not a, it's a rhythm game. You have to find your rhythm within the offense. Every player has a rhythm that's the fit and it's up to the coaches to find those rhythms to make that team better. And I think the biggest adjustment for them is to go get a point guard, move Devin back into his natural fit, put Brad on the other wing. And Kate, he can play the four, he can play positions where in this league he can play the four and that'd be a tough match-up for any four and I think they have the advantage. But as far as setting up the team, assisting, keeping Devin mine on scoring instead of balancing the game, I think is their biggest challenge. Earl, I said this exact thing yesterday on the show. I'm like, you got one of the best shooting guards in the league and then your only point guard on the roster is the kid Goodwin. I'm like, go get a vet point guard, at least to set the table and let these three guys eat. I mean, you guys know if we played against Kobe in his prime and he moved to the point, we'll be ecstatic. Like, yes. Right. Set up the offense, right? Right. And just deny him when it comes back to when we have so many schemes, but Kobe on that wing would invent a score, put steering to every team. Earl, you were also in Seattle when the SuperSonics got Kevin Durant in 2007. What was your first impression of KD when he arrived in Seattle? KD was just a young kid, man, who wanted to play basketball, he's a gym rat. I'll call him DC Slim. All he wanted to do was stay in the gym, work on his game and play video games with his neighbors. And I thought it was kind of, I thought it was really cool that before games, I'm like, KD, so what'd you do before the game? You're like, oh, a couple of my neighbors came down. We play some, you know, we play video games and I just came straight to the gym. Like, those kids had the greatest experience from one of the greatest players they ever played. And the evolution of KD going into OKC where Russ joined in and James ended up coming. That was a big three before we knew where big threes were organically. And if that three would have stayed together, I think they would have been ahead of Golden State as far as winning championships and being developed. Man. Earl, former UCLA Bruin, Jaime Hocquez, a lot of people hadn't heard of him really much. He's having an unbelievable start of the season. Some people are saying he's in the hunt for rookie of the year. Obviously, you know, I think has an unlock. But did you see this coming as a former Bruin yourself? Yeah, I did. Actually, I'm close with the family and you know, I had convinced in them to stay was a big part of my role as far as coaching changing. What I told him is UCLA is always be UCLA. You know, always have a great opportunity, a great chance of education to develop and meet the smartest people in the world, especially on the court and off the court. And what Jaime was, if you pull up his high school tapes, Jaime was a wing. And Jaime to me always had this shifty, awkwardness footwork to his game that was kind of like on a perimeter in high school similar to Ginobli, the Euro steps, the awkward finishes. But what you see now is Jaime's footwork in the post jump stop and playing off two feet, finding angles, making the extra pass. He's a basketball survivor, but his parents also play the basketball and his mom is the passionate one. She's the one in the stands, cussing them out. So I think being with the heat is perfect for him because he has that at home, that same mentality, that same accountability and kind of like that edge. And now apparently he's in the dunk contest, which surprised me, does he have that kind of bounce to compete with the, you know, Mac McClung? He's doing it again too. I mean, you know, we all had a different bounce in high school as we got older, we kind of picked up certain weighted, you know, too many games behind me. I asked him stuff to him. He won a high school dunk contest that's here in Canyon with the best LA, you know, athletes and you know, talent of that time. And Canyon Martin Junior son, Canyon Martin Junior was in the dunk contest. We know KJ can jump. So for me to be in my high school, I like to see what he pulled out in the all story game. How's that taste, Chandler? That sounds legit. Can't wait. All right, that's going to be real. UCLA pick up games. I would imagine there are some stories. Do you have any that you could share? I've never seen Magic Johnson lose to the back to back Lakers. Everyone knows Magic is legendary and pick up and he would bring his same five every time he played against Kobe, Shaq, Robert, DeFish, you know, whoever else came with him. And Magic never lost. When Magic got game point, everything was a foul. If he missed the jump shot, it was a foul. If it was a turnover, it was a foul. So you just knew you wasn't going back the other way. And people never challenged him because Magic is the initiator of those pick up games. When he came in 79 to UCLA to LA, he wanted to develop and play throughout the summer. He was a young player and he's a starter at the Rico ticket to the next level. But seeing Kobe in there and seeing, if you guys remember Chauncey at one point was bouncing from team to team. Chauncey used the UCLA summers to develop his game and get better and Magic was an influence to all of us. And just seeing Kobe go from like 7.30 in the morning from the gym and the track, 5.30 from the track and gym to the pick up games at 3.30. And that's when we knew Kobe was just a different type of player. That's awesome. You played alongside Darren Williams, Jason Williams, Russell Westbrook, Dame Lillard. Who was your favorite running mate in the back court? GP, Bandage. Oh yeah. Oh man. Yeah, we were all the way back. I'll say that's why I picked the full court, Lou, because they used to bust me up every day of practice. So I knew I wasn't going to face anyone that long in a game that I did in two or three hour practices. But Gary Prating was the most unique and what Gary taught me early in my career is he knew every team's offense and shoot around before he was even given to us. So Gary had his persona of just like, I just play, I just who, I'm not a basketball survivor. But when we got into our shoot around, he kind of ran shoot around. He told us what was going to happen. He prepared us for every play, every option, three or four options within the play. And he had the rotations down. So to see how he learned that really created my basketball mind to be more than just a player. And that's when I started to see the game more as a coach, because GP already had that vision. Earl, you got any good, excuse me, any good white chocolate stories? I know that that's my guy in Orlando, Gator, great. I know one time, I can pick me up in the gym one time. And just from riding with him to the gym, I almost failed a drug test. And I didn't even take one hit. And I almost failed a drug test, just riding with this pool. Hey, I love J. Will. He was also my teammate in Memphis with Brevin Knight. So I've been in point guard heaven, being even tutor to mentor about magic in college. But here's a G, I don't think J. Will would mind me telling the story. Uh-oh. And I don't know what words, I don't know what words I can use on this show. So y'all, y'all might have to believe me. Let it real free. Let it real free. Let it real free? Okay, here we go. Y'all remember when UB Brown retired and Fertello came, right? To Memphis, right? Fertello became the coach, UB stepped down. Fertello didn't want J. Will to cross over and shoot threes anymore. And J. Will in the middle of practice was like, damn, Mike, if I can't do that, homeboy, what am I good for? So the entire game, J. Will was dribble real fast to a player and do the two dribble backup dribble. Y'all remember that dribble we thought we was young? I remember that too. And he was doing it on purpose. He was hopping around and hopping around and hopping around. I'm like, damn, dude. I'm yelling like, yo, we gotta win the game. Like forget what he's talking about. Fuck that. This is what we do. So it went back and forth for a long time. And I think Fertello finally gave in because we were so young. We needed J. Will to be special. But if you put J. Will in this generation of basketball where it was point guard driven, perimeter driven with three point shot making, he would be even better than he was back then. That's just knowing Fertello too. That's just a fun interaction. I love it. Earl, thank you so much for the time this morning. We appreciate it. Love all the good stories. I hope we talk soon. Thanks, Earl. I appreciate you guys, thank you. Yes, sir. And we'll be back. Run it up, run it back. Run it up, run it back. Run it up, run it back. A little you buy in that. This is a crazy movie, film like video, right? Because LeBron just celebrated, I don't know if you guys know, his 39th birthday. And it was a big one. It was at Hyde Sunset. Everyone who's anyone was there. Chandler knows a little bit about it. Frankie Delgado. Jay-Z, Kevin Hart, Adele. I think we got this footage from Chandler. Yeah. It's very beautiful footage. It's got little vibes. Are you buying that he throws the best parties? I mean, it looks extravagant. He gets cool people to come. I don't know if it's the most fun party I've ever went to. Chandler, that's cat. These are good parties, man. Listen, I've never been to one. I mean, the costumes are great. Does he own Lobos Tequila or no? He does, yeah. I'm assuming, yes. Yes. I think it's a great venue. Shout out, Frankie Delgado. Hyde has been my clerk for the last 10 years in LA. I mean, it looks awesome. Never mind it doesn't. It's hilarious. Yeah, I know. He knows better. Ridge Paul. Yeah, I mean, it looks like, I can't, hey, it looks like a lot of fun. I've just never attended one. I've attended some pretty awesome parties. I take you, bro. We out. You got me? Wait, would you guys do, would you do the costume thing? Are you too cool to? No, you have to do the costume. I'm getting dressed to the night. Okay, okay. We have a term we call having it on. Yeah. We're gonna have it on. Is that like standing on your business? Yep. We're gonna make a list of all of the stuff. In cool phrases. Okay, good. I got that for tomorrow. Would you take Shoms, by the way? Absolutely. Shoms would like that. Shoms gotta have it on though. Shoms spacing. Come on, come on Lou. You gotta be talking right now. Yeah, we rollin' though. If it comes to fits, I think about, I don't know how long I'll say it. Yeah, we out. Oh, I really want this to have it on. We'll pull up. We'll pull up. I like it. I like this. I like this idea. Good luck. CJ McCullum said that he always plays well in Sacramento because he's still angry they didn't draft him in 2013. What? That's a long grudge. That's the thing. Absolutely. Especially if you wanted to get drafted by a team and they don't draft you. He did not want to get drafted in Sacramento. He said he's angry, they didn't draft him. I don't know why he wanted to get drafted. I don't know why. I don't know what was going on in 2013 in Sacramento, but yeah, this is a thing. So I'm buying it until he's done, he's gonna try to kick their ass every time I'm done. Players definitely hold a grudge for sure. That's how I felt about the Hawks. Yeah, you're salty. But I end up playing for twice. You're just like us. Yeah, you're salty. I like it. I mean, this was 10 years ago, let it go. You know what, I feel like you have 82 games a year, whatever it takes. Memphis still on your head right now. Yeah, there's a bounty, dude. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're a marked man. Never sure. Guilty by association, brother. Yeah, Dennis Schroeder reportedly wanted to quote, lead his own team. He was very unhappy when he started coming off the bench. You buy in that he could lead a team. No. He never has been a number one guy. I think he's a good player. I think he's solid. He plays really good in the Olympics, the World Cup for Germany. But no, he's a solid role player. He can go and get you a bucket. He can score the basketball. He's played big time roles on really good teams, but to lead a team. That's kind of big. Not seeing it. Not seeing it. All right, Lou Bogdan Bogdanovich was voted best player in Serbia by the Basketball Federation of Serbia. Their second best, Nikola Jokic. That makes no sense. I am buying. What? Yeah. Wait, hold on. Are we confused? Just a former teammate ties right here. We're talking about two completely different leagues, guys. We're talking about two different positions. Hold up. Listen, in the NBA, I am a six man. In the summertime in Atlanta, I am the very best basketball player they have ever seen. So completely different things. This is a biased opinion. And the funny, and it's super biased. Bogie is my guy, but a lot of people might not know. They're like this tight. So this is probably funny to both of them. I bet. The Joker is ranked number two. So I'm buying it. The Serbians, they know Serbians. We don't know. He's ranked number one in the world, but two in Serbia. Yeah. He's no goodness. I actually kind of love that. I understand. I love it. Senses of humor. We're taking a quick break. We will be back. Running back. I need y'all to get my boy Sean's into the NBA All-Star Celebrity game. I've been hearing a number of good things. I saw a little bit of footage. I think he meets the criteria to be able to get into that game. And he said he's going for the MVP. So let's get my boy in that game. Cool. Was Fred Van Vliet in a... Fred Van Vliet in a left. Well, well. A hashtag has been born. We're going to get you there, Sean. I'm going to get you there, buddy. And you, I mean, if Fred said it. Really did? If Fred and Lou will said it. Is that Invisible Ink? Let Sean's play. Can we get a Sharpie? Can we get a real... I'm stunned that this came over here. Well, I mean, look, Van Vliet is in. He knows what... It almost looks like Let's Ham play, but that's funny to me. What is your game like? Are you prepared? I've seen some clips. Yeah, I mean, I can shoot. That's all I have in my repertoire. Are you a D and three guy? I can't say I play defense. I don't play defense. You know what? You don't want to play in a celebrity defense. It's optional. You like playing defense. Yeah, but that's why I'm... I'm not saying that I'm like the best. I mean, you know, I didn't play. Who's on your hit list, Sean? Who's a celebrity? Who's a celebrity you want to cook? I could definitely make multiple three-pointers in the celebrity. For sure. Short shorts, long shorts. What are we doing? Mid. Mid, okay. Okay, it's not super long. It's like right here. It's like, are you... No, I can't wear up to here. It's like right here. I like scampi. Of course you do. So yours ends right here. 1,000%. I used to have my game shorts. That's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. What's wrong with you? Yo, Lou, Lou's like up to here. Yeah, Lou went down. Lou went down. I like long shorts. So this is a hashtag that we are now all going to be using. This is our goal in life. That's your life goal. Yes, I can die happy if I see you out. I want to have a reason to watch the celebrity game because we'll be courtside watching the game. If you play on this, we're going. In Indianapolis? You guys are going to have to clean my garage that weekend. Damn it. On second thought. We'll be back tomorrow. I don't know how to be cool with that. Run it up, run it back, run it up. Run it back, run it up, run it back, run it up.