 Where would you stand in the days of slavery? Would you be on the side of the slave owners? Against him, obviously, obviously. Wait a second, just ask where you are now with animal rights. Why is it worse to kill a human? I want to know why it's worse if it's not brain capacity. Because we're human beings and we shouldn't kill other human beings. And law as well, of course. We're not going to talk about law because what's legal hasn't always been moral. I took my phone out to take a photograph. This eagle turned around, literally turned around. You might think I'm a bit crazy. The situation, I stopped eating meat on a spiritual basis. Wow, like karma and stuff like that, the energy? Yeah, I mean it just happened because I'm a spiritual person, it just happened. When I thought about the whole situation, I realised it's human beings trying to take from animals to supplement themselves. So when you look at meat, then you look at meat towards protein. That's what, but there's vegetation of the land that will give us all what our body needs. We shouldn't be eating any animal products, to be quite honest. You know, because a calf will feed the milk of the mother. It's therefore, we don't go to a woman's breast and say, we need some milk. We're not baby cows, are we? That's right. We need to work at changing people. I think we just need to work on our self behaviour. Because if we are behaving a certain way, we're speaking a certain way, we eat a certain food and so forth, it's almost like an example of how we should do it. People will question us. I think there should be laws protecting animals. Yeah, I think... I don't think people should have the choice to butcher and kill them and torture them and eat them. That's true, I believe that. When you think about it, the animals have become, they're on the project line. And they're bred just for eating. Yeah. Which is cruel. It is cruel, because I always believe, you know, when you think about it, an animal cries. An animal has emotions. They have love. And we know that. I mean, I've worked with pigs, I've worked with cows. And I know that a sow doesn't give two hoots about their piglets. And that's the truth. And it's not on the basis of... A sow and a factory farm. That's right. Because if it was... The litter's taken from them before, yeah? Yes. We've done that castration and all that. You know, I was blind to that kind of factor, because I was involved in that castrating of piglet. The fact of the matter is the mob will lie down on the piglets and won't even know. Because they're stuck in a crate, they can't turn around in their suffering. I think that's a different scenario to like a pig on a sanctuary, whether they care about their kids. You know, everything you're saying is right, and I won't argue with that. But you've got to understand, even as I'm speaking to you about this, you can correct me on this. And educate me on this. Because when a person is in the thick of things, they can't see. Because if I knew, I wouldn't be working in there. Do you see what I'm saying? And people are doing things because, like you said, convenience in certain aspects of life. Culture as well, like you were saying, cultural. We've been conditioned by society. But you know, like I gave them an example. Like if we were brought up in the United States with a 400 years worth of slavery, that we'd be brought up into that culture. And we're like, oh, this is normal. And the only reason that changed, because people say, wait a second, this is horrible. They had a war and they stopped this, you know what I mean? The Holocaust in Germany, you know? People were like, well, they had a massive war over that too. But the people in Germany, like I guess they were going to be killed if they opposed Hitler. I mean, just because this is happening now, right? This is happening now. We know it's bad. And we're all contributing to it. Like a lot of us are contributing to it. And we're complacent. But this is like one of those times in history where we're going to be like, what side of history am I going to be on? Am I going to be one of those people who's shouting from the rooftop saying, stop, this is wrong. You know, we're going to look back in history. It's something that's immoral. Or we're going to be one of those people who, you know, they're just too lazy to change. Or, you know, I knew it was wrong at the time telling their grandkids, oh, I knew it was wrong at the time. I didn't change, you know? I believe that, you know, there are certain things that I see in life. How people listen is when people are conscious. And I think one of the factors that goes perfectly with the way we should live is love. Do you reckon love could undo animal agriculture and all the torture and death? It will. Because the people are desirous. Desirous. People who are desirous over feeding their greed. They can't see past that. To TV. They say that they can't see past that. This addiction here has direct victims that are being slaughtered. So it's almost like your addiction to meat and dairy and eggs and all these things have animals that are suffering in factory farms and slaughterhouses because of it. So like with smoking, you know, you might be a bit of secondhand smoker, whatever. This is something you're doing to yourself. You know, alcohol abuse and drugs. Unless you're hurting family around you. But let's just say you're just hurting yourself. When you go in and buy the chicken, the animals raise in a factory. They're suffering. They're killed at six weeks old. And they go into a slaughterhouse to be butchered and killed. So this is like trying to get people who are human beings to connect with a different species who are suffering. And I think love is a big part of that. I honestly, I do believe it. I do believe it when I started. It was coming from a place of love. I cared like, oh my God, what are you doing to that poor chicken? Like that's love, isn't it? Like I defend them. Like if I saw someone hurting you guys, I'd be in there and I'd be trying to defend you. And I see that the same with pigs and chickens and cows. People don't care. But like they need us to like talk for them, don't they? You know, I'll give you one experience that I had. I like feathered pillows downing because I sleep good in them. I don't have any now. Now it's strange because I bought a duvet that was down feathers. And you know, what happened was is it stunk like death. It really did. Now I wanted to find out about this. It made me find out. I found out that they're taking the soft part of the feathers from the duck. I realized that the amount of sometimes they're ripping the skin. And that goes with the feathers. And that's why we have that stench. You know, I took that thing back. And I said to myself, after seeing the story and how they do it, I said I'm not going to have downing anymore. No more feathers. No, because... So that was education. You educated yourself. And had I not been conscious in the first place to find out, I would probably just bear with it. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah, because otherwise you've got the blinders on like this. And you've just gone through life. But you seem conscious. He's been watching my videos. I'll put animal rights content up. And he come up and talk to me about this. So he's interested. You know, it seems like you're conscious. You've had like a spiritual awakening yourself in other ways. And I could consider this. It's like you're waking up to like the matrix. They're selling us slaughtered animals. We're completely mindless about it. Like you said when you're an Audi. You just grab the meat. You just grab the chicken. You don't think about, this is a bird. They had a personality. They were scared in that slaughterhouse. I'm paying for them to suffer and die. You're just like, I want some chicken with my vegetables. That's all you think about. They don't show you what I show you on these screens. The industry, they trick people. They go, okay, so you see cows on the grass. You see a happy lamb. You see a beautiful chicken, beautiful feathers. You know, our humane stamp of welfare, RSPCA. All this nonsense, right? And then you go in and buy it. And you're like, oh, thank God, the RSPCA looking after these animals. They come out of a slaughterhouse. They're chopped up into pieces. And people think that something good happened to them along the way. Another example, I was going to a zoo. I used to be a post driver, take children to the zoo. I took my phone up to take a photograph. This eagle turned around, literally turned around. You might think I'm a bit crazy, but I have divine messages and so forth. But one of the things that I heard is the eagle communicated with me. This sounds crazy, right? Trust me. The eagle says, why are you taking a photograph of me when you know I shouldn't be here? That is the truth. I've gone to different places and I've felt that communication of animals being mistreated. And I'm communicated. This is telepathy. Animals must have to communicate on a different level that I don't have a language like us. You're not going to see an eagle talking to you. You're not going to see a pig going. It's telepathy, feeling the connection that we have of animals. And if we're really conscious, we will hear what they're really saying. And you know, I'm never going to step in a zoo again. I realize that it's wrong to have them in a zoo. They make an excuse and say, well, these animals come back from a sort of situation. We're keeping them, but no, the way you're keeping them is barbaric. A prison. That's right. And we don't like to be in a prison. They shouldn't like to be in prison. And not only that, the animals have connection with the others that are free. So they say, what are you doing in here, man? I don't know. You know, it's unfair and we need to come out of this. And this is all to do with the satisfaction of human beings. And to have that satisfaction, people, animals have to suffer. Well, and you were talking about on a spiritual level. Like, I mean, this is one of the things that changed me, like karma. And when we're eating imprisoned, suffered beings, and we're making that a part of our body. You know, you're taking an animal that has been almost always in some type of fearful experience, even before their bolt gun, just say, free range cow, even before their bolt gun, they know they're about to die or something. They're trying to escape. We're taking that fear, that suffering. We're making it a part of our body. And I just, I just see any good coming out of that, you know. It's about adjusting, getting your mind to it, thinking about what you're going to replace things with and how you're going to deal with. And so, you know, I'm ready for that change. You know what I mean? I got this challenge 22 is fantastic for that. It's 22 days, it takes 22 days to rebuild a new habit. So it's free, everything in here is free. So like, you already know, you already know. And now it's just about the how. Like, obviously, you both think animal cruelty and abuse is wrong. Being vegan, the word vegan just means opposed to animal cruelty and exploitation. I mean, it's just a movement for animals. You know, we've got lots of movements for humans, which I also support. But this is just one for the animals, you know. Being vegan is like, look, I'm not going to be the person who pays for their suffering and cruelty anymore. Now you can do it healthy too. You can do whole foods, plant-based, be a healthy vegan. If you want a vegan burger and some vegan chocolate, go hard on that. You know, you can have vegan alcohol too. I'm not, like, it's not necessarily about health for me. It's about the animal abuse and cruelty. So you can have, you know, you don't have to cheat with a bit of meat. You can cheat with a bit of vegan junk food if you want. But like, it's really good seeing both sides of the coin here. Like you're both two different people, but you're on like a similar path of like change. No worries, Ethan. Really good talk to you. Send us an email, brother. Send us an email. It's almost not about human beings. It's only about what they can feed their desire. If that desire is so powerful that sometimes the desire is almost addictive. What if you had a desire for change, for peace? Then we would have a change very quickly. Very quickly. So what if you could spread that desire like a fire? I mean, you're doing something. I do something. I go out on the streets and I preach. I give them information in order for them to make, people to make informed decisions. It was a shame that we couldn't actually get a microphone and a video camera and go to the car and tell us how you feel. And what do you think should happen? Let them stand. We have to try to articulate their pain. So sometimes I go into farms and slaughterhouses and say, this is what they're feeling. But I don't really know, but I'm trying to like, you know. Yeah, I always say that, you know, the first thing, you know, if I had to mention spirituality, I would say, imagine that a creator says that we name the animals, not eat them. Also, he gave us the vegetation of the land. You know, but again in the Bible it shows that they were eating lambs and making sacrifice. And I don't believe that was the case. Well, the Garden of Eden was vegan. That's right. That's right. He was talking about the lion laying down with the lamb. And that is going to take place. So even though we are making people aware of certain things in life, it's really preparing them for a new world, you know, a world where there is no cruelty, a world where love is abundant in such a way. And I can see that future. And that's why I speak about that to people. It's a creator. That's right. You make that future and you make the future for people. And if we can get it right here, we are going to enter that future. You know what I'm saying? Brother, thanks man. I think that's a good place to end it, bro. Really good talking to you, man. Thank you. And you too. Your name is? Joey. Joey, I'm Pat. Good to meet you, Pat. And you too. Keep up the amazing work, my brother. Thank you. And you too, yeah? Take care. I will definitely look at this, yeah? Because I know I'm going to go through the change. Excellent to hear, my friend. Peace to you, my brother. Okay? What an amazing chat. Inspiring, a very inspiring chat. Brilliant. Brilliant. Two people. Two different backgrounds. Two different places in their lives. Hopefully they both make changes. I could, Patrick may, I could almost see his going home to make changes right now. Ethan, maybe, you know, I gave him a pamphlet. Like I said, convenience is a hard one. Changing habits. But like, you have to be motivated. You have to have that desire for change. And like, witnessing what the animals go through, if that's not enough, I hope the pandemics thing is enough. The environment thing is enough. I don't know. What will be enough? We have to wait and see. But if everyone gets out there and tries their best, maybe we can create the world we want to see. So let's do it.