 My name is James Gigahar and I'm the editor of New Mandala. Welcome to New Mandala TV. Today gives me great pleasure to be joined by a major star and player in Malaysian politics, Nick Nazmi Nick Ahmed. Nick is a Selangor State Minister and head of the People's Justice Party Youth Branch. Nick, thanks for joining us today. Thank you. The first question I have for you, if we cast our eyes over the last few weeks in Malaysian politics, it's fair to say it's been fairly chaotic, particularly with the unravelling of the opposition movement. Is Pakatan Rakyat dead? Well, definitely the opposition coalition, Pakatan Rakyat, is now formally does not exist anymore. That's certain. What is happening now is that we are trying to form a new movement based on the same spirit of Pakatan Rakyat. And what would this movement encompass? Who will be part of this? Well, you know, there are talks within certain segments of past, forming a new organization, as well as PKR or the People's Justice Party and the Democratic Action Party will be part of this movement. And what do you think the unravelling of Pakatan Rakyat means for Malaysia's opposition movement? And what does it mean for democracy in Malaysia in general? Definitely for the time being, it's a setback because I think many people hoped that Pakatan can go far. And it has certainly achieved a lot. It's the most successful opposition coalition to date in the country. And many of the ideas, you know, encompassing both non-Malay parties, mixed parties as well as an Islamist party is something which I would think is representative of the entire spectrum of Malaysian society. And whatever new movement or new coalition that comes into being will have to also take into account of the same constituencies. So as you mentioned in 2013, the last general elections in Malaysia, Pakatan Rakyat won the popular vote and took the ruling coalition, Barristan National, right down to the wire. Does the opposition movement stand much hope of winning or even challenging strongly in elections in 2018? I definitely think so. I mean, the challenge for us is to get things in order. And I think everyone is working hard on that at the moment. And I think if that can be settled quickly, because at the same time the ruling coalition is also facing its own challenges. And I certainly believe that we can mount a serious challenge going to the next general election. I guess part of the complication for the coalition was a perceived lack of leadership once Anwar Ibrahim was jailed on his latest charges of sodomy. Effectively, this jailing and sentencing means he's out of politics well until after 2018. Who do you think can lead, inspire and progress Malaysia's opposition movement now? Well, I think the collective loss of the first imprisonment of Anwar Ibrahim, but earlier on the passing on of Karpal Singh from the DAP and Nick Aziz from PAS, all three had a major impact in the opposition coalition. And Anwar continues to be a major factor. I mean, he continues to be an influence even from prison. But at the same time, I think we can see an emergence of many leaders. Dr. Wan Azizah is now the opposition leader, his wife and the president of PKR. Even if you see it within PKR, we are not limited in terms of number of leaders that are emerging within the party. We have the Chief Minister of Slango, Azmin Ali. We have the party secretary general and vice president Rafizi Ramli. We have Tien Chua. We have Daryl Liking from Sabah. And these are all making their own name, Nurul Izzah, the party vice president. They're all making their own name within the party and the country. And the same goes with the other parties. So I certainly think that we are not lacking of figures to lead the coalition. And while a successful opposition coalition, I guess it's fair to say that in many ways it was tenuous, if not a marriage of convenience, it was possibly a marriage of tolerance. How do you think the opposition movement can get beyond questions of ethnicity, religion and focus on being successful as it was in 2013? I think the main issue is that we need to learn from both the successes and our shortcomings within Pakatan right now. We had many successes within Pakatan, but at the same time, yes, as you mentioned, there are shortcomings. And so we need to see, and that's why there's this new movement within PAS that is starting to form. And I think that probably will be able to sit better with the other parties. And there needs to be stronger institutions to make the coalition work. Previously, it was much more of a loose coalition. So we need to make it more formal and more institutionalized in order for it to function effectively. Now, if we could turn our attention to some other recent events, and in particular the extraordinary claims from the Wall Street Journal that Prime Minister Najib Razak has siphoned off $700 million from the indebted state sovereign fund 1MDB. An interim government report says that it's found nothing suspicious about the money transfer so far. In light of this, as well as the recent property scandal in Australia which was exposed by the age newspaper, what are the implications for Prime Minister Najib? I think it's massive. The 1MDB issue has been haunting him for a long time. But the fact that there are two major incidents, I would say. First, earlier on there was property transaction involving the pilgrimage fund, Tabung Haji. And this is something which is very close to the hearts of many Muslims in the country on the ground. Because this is where they save in order to perform their pilgrimage. So that is one that made it rather than being an abstract corruption scandal to something that is very real and affected them. Secondly, this transfer which until today the Prime Minister has not actually denied. His statement is that he did not use the money for personal ends. That is against such a blatant act that many at first could not believe someone would do. So that has put a lot of pressure and to the point that even many prominent cabinet members of the ruling party has actually come out with strongly worded statements that it's not supportive of the Prime Minister. So he is in a very difficult position at this time. Although I would say he still has some support within his party that is allowing him to survive. And what does this all say about the state of politics at the moment in Malaysia? Well, it shows how bad corruption has become in the country that these things can happen. And the simple fact that such a blatant act could take place. I mean, they did not even bother to disguise or come up with a more complex arrangement for this. I mean, corruption is something which is normal and has plagued the country especially since the reign of Dr. Mahadeh when a lot of the countries institutions were destroyed. But this has really taken it to a different level altogether. And I think many people are disgusted. People are openly talking about it. Civil servants, people in the streets are openly talking about this at this point of time. So I think it is something which is a major issue in Malaysia. If we look at last year's elections in Indonesia and the seemingly great gains that democracy has made in that country in such a short time. And we compare that to the current state of play in Malaysia. Would you say that Malaysia is in danger of falling behind? And how might the people be galvanized by this prospect? Yes, I certainly think so because if we look at the history, Indonesia when they had the crisis in 1997-98, the old regime was overthrown. And the process of democratization has taken place. Impressive democratization. The institutions are free. There has been major corruption investigations even against the government parties. The media is free and political change happens between one election and another normally. So that has been a huge success for Indonesia. Malaysia on the other hand, we had our reformation as well in 1998 when Anwar was set. It created a new political movement but from then until today, although the movement has grown, it is much more multiracial now and all that. But the fact remains that the old regime remains. So a lot of things that was wrong in the past still is there right now and it's a stumbling block to democracy. So I think we need to push for that and that's why my main message when I meet Malaysians in Australia is that we must not lose hope in this because until and unless there is one political change in the regime and institutional reform in the country, we will not see real change taking place. There's no use if just Najib resigning but if there's another person of the same party, of the same regime coming into power, then things will still be the same. Now in addition to the potential cloud of corruption overhanging Malaysian politics at the moment, there's also the question of more aggressive moves towards Hadud law in Malaysia. Some commentators have remarked that Malaysia is now slipping towards fundamentalism. What would you say to those claims? I would say that religion is increasingly becoming a political battleground in Malaysia and it's being made use of including by people in Amno. We know for a fact that many people in Amno do not really care about religion per se and they themselves do not really lead say religious lives. But they make use of it because for them they saw that this was an issue that would break the opposition apart and they have been proven right. It was unfortunate that people fell for it and as you probably know until today actually the constitutional bill to allow Hudud to be implemented in Klantan has not been actually brought to parliament although it was scheduled to be brought twice. The private members bill has been postponed and postponed. But I don't think the ruling coalition is serious about it because one they don't really believe in it and secondly even if they do they are non-Muslim component parties or even the Borneo parties which some of them are Muslim but they have a different view about the implementation of Hudud or the Sharia criminal enactment that they do not want this to happen. So it's more of you know it's being used as a political football in order to break the opposition apart. It is worrying I agree because race and religion are so intertwined in Malaysia and people make use of it but and there's a marginalization of genuine authentic moderate religious voices which I think we still need to engage them because that is the only counter to this. Not a pure secular voice but genuine moderate authentic religious voices to counter extremism in the country. And in March Nick you were arrested and detained for three days for what was labelled by the authorities as an unlawful rally. Do you think Malaysia is slipping towards authoritarianism and what can be done to arrest any potential trend in this way? Well in fact they claim that I was conducting an unlawful rally but in fact earlier on I had managed to successfully challenge in the courts the Peaceful Assembly Act which legislates peaceful rallies in Malaysia. So basically now the courts recognize the fundamental constitutional guarantees of freedom to assembly. Yet yes I was arrested and after I was arrested many other opposition leaders and activists and NGO activists were arrested as well either under debt charge or the sedition laws which has been increasingly used to subdue the opposition. Whereas not that I'm calling for the use of sedition law but the supposed purpose of sedition law i.e. to protect racial and religious harmony in the country is not being used. Sedition law is not being used on government politicians or those allied to the governments when they incite racial and religious hatred so you can see the double standards there. So yeah we do see that worrying trend towards an oppressive authoritarian state but at the same time I think increasingly more and more Malaysians are determined to speak up and fight this trend. Finally Nick you gave us an interview four years ago when you just come into Malaysian politics elected as one of the youngest members to Malaysia's parliament. Lots happened in that four year period but you remarked back then that you hope to make a mark by helping create a Malaysia where politics are defined not by race or religion or corruption but by values. Has that come about? Do you have hope for that still? Where do you see Malaysian politics in another five years time? Being an opposition politician in Malaysia you must always have hope because or not you won't be able to survive in this business. So yeah I think that the overall trend is still positive. More and more Malaysians are speaking up. More and more Malaysians are interested in issues of policy and how to make the country a better place. So I think that we do see that trend but the important issue is that we must not lose track. Sometimes it's easy to get disillusioned or give up hope. The imprisonment of Anwar, the death of Karpal and Nick Aziz and all that but we must continue to keep the torch burning and fight for change. And I believe that if we continue that with all that is happening we can see that change happening in Malaysia. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today Nick. Thank you for joining us. Pleasure. Thank you.