 Does the Asian nerd stereotype come from reality or media? There's a hot debate online right now. Let's talk about it. Yeah, this discussion was going viral on Reddit. There were so many mini discussions going on. Why is it so bad to be an Asian nerd in America? Is being a nerd even bad? How come white nerds seem like they have a better than Asian nerds? What is the cause of it? Is it society? Is it Hollywood? Is it the parents? Is it the STEM subjects? Is it just our culture? And then of course, there was even arguments way outside of that. Joining us today for this complicated discussion. All the way from LA, we got one of the original hot-pop boys, Nelly Nell, Chandler in the building. What's good, man? It's always good to be back in New York and have these type of hot topics and discussions with y'all, man. Yeah, Andrew, we got to get into it, right? Because make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications because this is a topic that gets brought up quite often. Yeah, I'm sure this is not the first or the last video that we're going to make about this. But yeah, let's go through the four main points that you need to understand about this topic when you're discussing being an Asian nerd in America. And then also at the end, I might tell you why I think being an Asian nerd in America is great right now. All right. It's a great time to be an Asian nerd. Real quick, I think we have to establish, Andrew, this Asian nerd stereotype, particularly for East Asians, has been around for 40 years. Literally, this is the Time Magazine cover in 1987. Of course, there was still a variance. You still had your Chad good-looking nerds up there. And then you've got some of the nerdier nerds at the bottom of it. But basically... Some of those kids play tennis. Yeah, some of the kids were like better-looking nerds than other ones. But it doesn't matter. Anyway, what I wanted to talk about was just, like, a lot of people feel like this stereotype has been forced onto the Asian-American community. And a lot of people are always reacting to it, whether they're buying into it, whether they're rebelling against it, whether they accept it reluctantly, but they have a bad life. So we got to get into four different points. Like I said, this is such a complicated topic. We're not going to be able to break it down 100%, but we're going to get into what we can. I would say this. Number one, Andrew, being a nerd in America is particularly polarizing for Asian guys in the sense that everybody's always imagining the fat kid from lookism or you're like a 10 out of 10 ratchet Kevin Wynn. So why is that? Why does it seem like it's always like, it's never going to be the fusion person who's like five out of 10 on both, who's like distributing their identity equally. It's always going to be the people on the extreme ends of the spectrum that get characterized in media or even online. Well, I would say that definitely Asian nerds in media are only depicted as super nerds. Like they're the side character. They're not also athletic. They're not also the hero. They're usually the butt of the joke, everything like that, right? Now I will say that there are some examples of like white heroic nerds, kind of like a Spider-Man, Peter Parker type thing, but that's also not the main thing either. Most people like to have one or the other. And this is where we can blame media, where we know that there have always been, if you know enough Asian people, always been like athletic Asian nerds, right? Like captain of the- You're talking for example, right? He went to Harvard, he scored high on his face. Like Jeremy is by all means a nerd, but he's also a great basketball player. So it's kind of like, I think that that, it doesn't get shown enough. And I think this is where you can blame media. Do you think people end up buying into that? Like, cause you know some people now, you grew up in an Asian neighborhood, you knew people who are both, probably both ends of the extreme spectrum, but also in the middle, right? Yeah, I think going back into social media, we're not like glorified in that middle range area where like, you know, we're not a 10 out of 10 nerd, or like, you know, a 10 out of 10, like F-boy, right? But there's no really like public figure for that in that middle area for us. Yeah, I would say for example, for like white nerds, you've got like Jeff Bezos, who's like winning, right? He's got like a lot of women, good day, like Elon Musk, the Winklevoss twins. It seems like the elite white people, they almost are like both. They could be like a 10 out of 10 brainiac, but then they're like a 10 out of 10 Chad at the same time. But like we said Andrew, for Asians, that archetype doesn't really exist yet. And those people, maybe if they do exist, they haven't been thrust into the limelight. So I think that that is one of the things that is noteworthy about point number one. Oh, Andrew, I did also notice, even people who had to play Asian nerds in media, for example, like Jacob Balaton from Spider-Man, you know how he's playing like a computer hacker and Peter Parker's friend, but he didn't really get girls. He in his own life wants to get like really cool and almost looks like a DJ now in like the DMC championships. Yeah, I mean, I think in media in America, it's easy to thrust like Asians or minorities into nerdy roles or into roles that they just wanna see. Because I think in America, actually, there are like so many archetypes of people. There's archetypes in America that don't even that rarely exist in Asia or that are definitely not glorified, right? Kind of like your huge stocky like buff, nice, gentle giant. Like those are some of the people in Asia, but they never really get movie roles. You're saying there's no equivalent of like The Rock or Dave Bautista in Asia. Yeah, there's no even like Chris Hemsworth, Mark Wahlberg, these kind of like ruddy, stocky kind of heroes and heartthrobs. Interestingly enough, point number two, in Asia, I think being a nerd because it is, to be honest, more academic, more scholarly, more part of the inborn Asian culture, Andrew, there's more shades of nerdism in Asia than there is here. So not only do Asians get shoved into like a zero one binary in America, where it's like you're either an F-boy or you're a nerd boy, in Asia, I think there's way more shades of nerd. Well, it's not shocking that in Asia, they're gonna more glorify nerds or being kind of nerdy is already like the status quo. Like everybody's maybe just a little bit more nerdy in Asia for the most part, right? Because that's what they value. And that's kind of where society is built out of, right? Maybe the sports systems are still catching up to America, maybe the fight systems or all the entertainment systems are. No, you play pro ball in Asia. You would say the pro ballers in Asia are not nearly as elevated in status as the pro ballers in America, right? No, 100% not. I don't think that's like what they value or like what it's like what they want just based off the upbringing and like the know the parental system and stuff like that. There's just like, they just wanna be, they like to do what they like to do, but like at the end of the day, they wanna be successful in other ways. Yeah, I think- They don't look at pro basketball as like, oh yeah, I'm tight, I'm cool, I'm a celebrity. Like they don't, I don't think they value that as much. I would say that to your point, like you were saying like, you know your kid being really good at math and your kid doing like all these extra workbooks in Asia, that's not looked down upon like it is in America. I'm not saying that some parents wouldn't look up to you in America, but other parents would be like, oh my gosh, your kid's not gonna be popular at school. Like that's like the standard. Yeah, they think that's tight. Yeah, for real. They think it's good in Asia. My kid loves math. Yeah, I would say overall American culture is not nerdy. Like even though there's a lot of nerds in America and nerds like to come here and study, I really don't think that American culture, at least pop culture is nerdy. I agree with you. America has always needed nerds on a back end invisible structural level to maintain economic and technological dominance in the world. But it has never on a pop cultural level, ever valued nerds. Looking like Marilyn Monroe or looking like Elvis or James Dean. These people were famous because they were like swaggy and said swaggy things and like smoked cigarettes. They were not famous. And do crazy things. Yeah, and even like Albert Einstein, people go, oh yeah, that was a great American scientist. He was from Germany. He's Jewish. He wasn't even American. Okay, he's had a crazy accent. Moving on, Andrew, in the U.S. particularly, there's a good transition to talk about U.S. culture. Why do you think it is in the U.S.? And I think that every culture has this, but in the U.S. there's a particular desire for attained wildness. But they want the wildness. And maybe, I think there's a reason why that quote unquote like nerdy people that are hyper stereotypically nerdy in America have such like a, are viewed as like, I guess not desirable to hang out with. Is it because they lack the wildness and they lack the unpredictably factor or what? I think there's a couple of things. They could be looked at, they're not cool. They're kind of sheltered. They're not confident and they're boring. They're not fun. But I mean, like I said, society's perception of nerds that's not how it really are, you know? Right. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of like books written on why women are kind of attracted to bad boys because they're like masculine, they're dangerous. They're kind of mysterious. And if you can tame a bad boy and bring the good out of him, that's almost like an accomplishment, right? And maybe it works a little bit differently for how men kind of perceive women. But basically like, yeah, America is a great country to be a bad boy. Is it a great country to be a nerd? I also still think it's a pretty good country to be a nerd in, but it's definitely not the best country. And definitely the people who are using America for its freedoms the most, I think would be considered like bad boys. Like these, like the guys who are not running the system but they're using the system and they're kind of like these cool, like, you know, guys who are on the edge doing edgy things, but like because it's American freedom. I mean, even look at how like a Cyclops, Cyclops get, whether he gets played out by Wolverine, right? Doesn't Wolverine take Cyclops's chick and X-Men? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like in the Asia, they would like never allow that storyline. They would be like, no, that is so bad for the society. Like Cyclops is who everybody should try to be like. Why does the, why, why do we make the bad boy get the top girl? You know, maybe the top scoring guy on the test should get the top girl. I'm not saying that the bad boys in Asia don't get something too, but it's a smaller niche, right? They don't promote it for sure, man. They're for sure. They don't promote it for sure, man. They don't throw it at the top of the priority list. Yeah, I do think we can blame sometimes the American media machine because, you know, in Asia, whether it's not, I'm not even talking about China and how strictly they censor stuff, but even in maybe Korea, they're... In Asia in general, to various levels, there's a stronger linkage between what the government wants to promote as good society and media. Like those are gonna be more like coalesced into one. There's a lot more. The morals just all different, man. The morals and values are just gonna be different. It's almost like more comparable, what I would say to like 1930s American morals or like maybe 1950s, definitely pre-1970s morals. Asia's like still like that, to be honest. For better or worse, you guys decide. Andrew, last but not least, obviously there are reasons why Asians push their kids into STEM fields, right? Like STEM fields, traditionally, I do think it's changing right now in 2023. We're considered the most stable and the least image-based because obviously us, we all have careers that are based off image, right? Sometimes it is tough as an Asian, right? So you want to put your kids in the fields where like only delivering on the equation or figuring out the algorithm or figuring out the medical problem is the answer, right? You don't want to be in high level banking or marketing or finance, something where like, I guess it's very like relationship-based. Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough. I feel like for nerdy parents who are raising a nerdy kid and maybe the parents aren't super social, you gotta find a balance for the kid. You gotta get that kid in social interactions and social systems somehow so that they develop sociality because we all know a lot of nerds who are very smart but they're like kind of shut-ins, they're introverts and how are they ever going to really live like a good social life? Or by the time they get older and they finally decide they want to, it's very, very hard to change, right? Yeah, I think it's tough because now would you agree that the majority of like high level Hoopers are probably not STEM majors? Oh, yeah, for sure. Probably about eight out of 10, nine out of 10 of like high level Hoopers are not necessarily. I mean, let's just say it's eight out of 10. So what do you say to like Asian parents that are like, yeah, I want them my son to play basketball but then all of his teammates do not care about school or care about school as much as I want them to. So why would I let my son play basketball? Man, I think going back to what you were saying about putting them in a field or environment that accommodates the best out of the values you're looking for for the kid is like, I don't know, put them in like an Asian league or like with other like, you know, kids who are like do good at school but they also enjoy playing basketball or soccer or whatever sport that they want to play in but like just put them in the environment that fits what you want them to be. Right, right. It's not like a hundred out of a hundred basketball teams all none of them care about school. Yeah, don't put them like, like to find the ones they do. Don't put them like the AAU hood kids or something, you know. Yeah, I think that you can position them in a thing that has best of both worlds. And I think that goes back to my original point, Andrew. How come people feel like you can only be one or the other? I think you can be like a nine out of 10 nerd and why can't you be a nine out of 10 into something else? But anyway, Andrew, that leads us into your takeaways. Yeah, my takeaways is that right now in America it is great to be an Asian nerd. There is no other time in American history that it was this good to be an Asian nerd. But I just spent all this, the last couple of points telling you how bad it is. Yeah, so obviously being an Asian nerd is it not as fun or not as cool as being like a white nerd in America? Yes, because we're in America and that's how America is designed. So that's just a little bit of truth that you're just gonna have to accept for now. That was the part that was going on. That was a pretty viral debate in the thing. Yeah, but to me it's not a debate. It's literally no debate, it's just how it is. But here's things that you could do about it. And here's what you should consider as an Asian nerd. Guys, the world's economies are moving in your favor. The world is getting nerdier, more techy, right? All the biggest, most viral people of the past five years were nerds, whether it's Elon, Josiah, CZ, Zuckerberg, even if you wanna say same, Benjamin Fried, who kind of messed up, right? Anyways, and then number two, the knowledge on how to better yourself is more accessible and plentiful than it ever has been. So whether we're talking about style guides, workout, trainer, the gurus, the advice videos, the support community, the role models, all the procedures you could do, all these things are more plentiful and accessible for you to change yourself and better yourself. So it's almost like you live in the information age and if you're a nerd, you understand that you do. So it's just like just use the information to your advantage, right? And then also Asian men are more successful. There are more powers of position and have more leverage in society. A lot of them are more CEOs, right? As we know, a lot of the Indian CEOs and even a lot of like other East Asian CEOs and everybody else, they're just, Asians are just rising up in general. And then also I would say that it is more frowned upon to bully geeks and nerds than it was 20, 30 years ago. If you guys think it's bad being an Asian nerd today, then you can only imagine what it was like being an Asian nerd 30 years ago. It was worse. I think my biggest thing is like, I just hate the way people buy into the societal constructs that are like built by the Western world. Like in Asia, if you have someone like a Demos Chang or you have somebody that is like half, half, you know, and obviously some of that is just genetic, like on a looks-based basis, but they have like cool nerds that are getting everything they want out of life in Asia. Just because we don't have that archetype in America, I just always refuse to, you know what I mean? Like, why can't you be 10 out of 10 into a school and be in a scholar in academics or whatever given field that you're in and then be like six, seven or eight out of nine or nine out of 10 in a different field. I just don't understand why people can't like mix and match. And it is true in America, I think the way that things are segmented and it does make the mixing and matching of like opposing identities more difficult. But would you say with technology and the internet is totally doable now? Oh, a hundred percent. You know, with social media being so big, like whatever lane you're playing, you can like market it or you can do it and that entrepreneurship is like so easy to, you know, do now with, you know, with social media now. Like everybody can be like teaching some type of like nerdy thing, nerdy topic or lesson, finance or anything. Like you throw yourself out there. Yeah, be entrepreneurial about your identities. If you feel like your identity that you have is not like being rewarded fairly or treated well, which we all just listed a bunch of reasons why it potentially may or may not, depending on the fishbowl or society that you inhabit, then there are a ton of moves you can bust. Yeah, definitely. You know, my last thought is like, you don't have to give up the STEM field, but you can also do one other thing that is clearly not STEM. Like possibly not gaming though. Yeah, let's say you're- I wouldn't pick gaming. Guys, no disrespect. Don't put nine out of 10 in gaming either. Yeah, don't be like, all right, I'm nine out of 10 on STEM and the other one that I pick is gaming. Maybe not gaming, guys. I think there's good reason for that. But yeah, I mean, let's say you want to be really in a basketball, play a lot of basketball while you're a STEM major or you're a STEM major and you're really in the UFC, MMA, fight, you know, like mixed martial arts, whatever. Maybe you're really into style. Maybe you happen to be one of these STEM nerds who's like super in a dressing room. It's on the fashion Reddit. You know, it's like you're on Cora for the comp side and then you go to somebody. Nobody said that you can't be cool while still being good at your STEM subject. Nobody ever said that- Hollywood did say that though or Hollywood implied that. Honestly, I think a lot of your parents thought that and your parents didn't believe that you could be cool and a nerd and good at school at the same time. Self agency? Yeah, not fully to their fault. You know, I think they're very fearful and they're just like doing what they know. But you got to understand, guys. They just knew what they knew. As to whether they were like STEM themselves or not STEM, they just knew what they knew. And you got to know that they only knew what they know, but now you know what you know. You know- And you got to know that. You got to know that. Yeah, you know what they know so you just know that you know more and you know this world more than they. Anyways, guys, let us know in the comments down below what you think about all this. And also, yeah, let us know in the comments down below. Do you feel like that it's more media's fault or reality's fault? And what constitutes reality? Is it your parents, your culture, your look, whatever, how you are as a person, your own personality that you're born with? You let us know in the comments down below. This discussion could go on and on. We might make more videos about this. Of course, it is the hot pop boys from frivolous to serious. We're talking about it all. Thank you for joining us today. Nelly Nell Chen. Until next time, let us know in the comments section. We out. Peace.