 this morning the first one of the first talks was from Matt and it was called don't break the internet so I decided to have a class called how to break the internet but actually if we were gonna name the class appropriately it would be how to fix the internet how many of you guys and gals support clients have clients that you need to support okay how many of you have clients that you don't support oh yeah can't stand them whatever yeah so we're gonna talk today about some practical things of how to support clients in a way that will bring success not just for you as an agency owner or a freelancer but for your clients because isn't that at the end of the day what we want is to have successful clients if we don't have successful clients then we're not successful personally or as an agency so just a little bit about me yes this is all these are my kids except for my mom and the groom in this picture all these are my kids and then me and my wife we I did not begin my career as a as a young man in IT however I've always loved IT I built my first website in the year 2000 it was for our church and I use front page yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah don't applaud because it was awful then I also use Dreamweaver equally awful I and okay this is gonna get booze but do you remember that word used to have this function called save for the web yes you could make a website in Microsoft Word and it was equally awful than anything you can ever imagine but I did build a website in Microsoft Word so that goes way back I've always had a love for anything that's cutting edge IT I work for Nathan Ingram at Brilliant Webworks and I'm always saying hey why don't we try this and he's he's he doesn't like to change for really good reasons if you went through his processes at talk there are great reasons that you don't change but I am that guy I run beta of macOS even though my software says this does not work with macOS beta I run iOS betas on my phone and those kind of things that's me I love technology and I love helping people with technology actually let me just change that I love helping people my my career if you will I was a pastor at a church in more Oklahoma for 35 or 25 years and then my family and I we moved to Ukraine that's where this picture was taken just outside of Kiev to work as missionaries we were there for 10 years came back just before the war began and we serve people families who are affected by disability you probably see something different about our kids we have five kids that have Down syndrome one of them is biological and then we adopted four in Ukraine that have Down syndrome so that is our hearts that is my heart as a person inside the religious community or outside my I love wordpress well I like wordpress he'll watch it Kate's not here is she no she's not so I like wordpress I like building websites but my passion is to serve people whatever context that's in that's my passion I am a horror I shouldn't say horrible that's so condemning I am a staunch introvert I do not like being around people or in front of people unless I'm helping them if I'm helping somebody or serving somebody suddenly I am an extrovert so that's my personality that's what I've done and interestingly being a pastor being a missionary that serves the like an oppressed population really ties in well with client support because I want the best for you so if I'm helping you I want the best for you because that's when I now there is the dark side to this and that it can be validation for me which is is is not appropriate but also if I'm helping you win then I'm winning too so it is a mutual it's a mutual agreement and client support so that's kind of my background I am the client six we don't have a title but I made one up client success manager for brilliant web works and also do project development there so I've been with Nathan for almost four years can you believe it so anyway I like web development like WordPress but my passion is to serve people so I've heard this so many times let's read this together one two three business would be oh no no no no no let's read this together one two three business would be so much easier if it weren't for clients yeah can I get an amen okay however wrong oh did you see him he went yeah I know I was once taught just because you can do something in PowerPoint doesn't mean you should that was one of those things but cute this is actually the truth right business would not exist if it weren't for our clients so if we have trouble with our clients I would suggest we need to maybe look in the mirror because we've trained now there are listen there are clients that you need to fire I get that we have some clients that have almost been fired but in at the end of the day if your clients are misbehaving and I hate to use that word because that's so negative but if your clients are misbehaving you've taught them to misbehave or you've taught them you've taught them you've taught them to look oh gosh double negatives you've taught them to not not misbehave you haven't taught them to behave so that's what we're gonna talk about today who are the kind of people that we serve we serve a demographic that maybe no under no other support industry has to serve in that we have people that are cutting-edge like me that like to try all the new things and break the internet and then we have people we have clients that are in their 80s that are that are just blogging they don't know he does this one particular man I'm thinking of he doesn't know a lot but man he loves to write and he writes great stuff people like to read his stuff but he doesn't know WordPress and he doesn't really want to know WordPress we have a blind lady that I don't know how old she is but she's a blogger she likes to write it's not even just to the blind community but she has really good input when she writes a blog post she can't see can you imagine switching WordPress to the block editor for a non-sided person that's always used classic editor is the block editor accessible supposedly have you ever yeah ish have you ever tried to even use the classic editor without your site exactly so we have a wide gamut of people that we serve and so do you we all have people who are who are used to people want to be per want to be personal have you ever called a support line and you have to talk to a computer you're answering questions like you're talking to a real person how many of you like that no why don't you like that because you know what you need if it was a person that answered the phone you could have already been through the conversation right our clients are the same way we do use AI in some circumstances but never to communicate with a client clients want to be known by their name and they want to be a real person they don't want to be just a number they don't they don't want to be spoken to by a computer they want human interaction don't you want well to a limit I want human interaction but most of us all of us are built to have some sort of community interaction some sort of personal interaction those are the people we serve they're just like us we have people that want instant gratification we launched a huge excuse me we want launched a huge site last week and we were in a Nathan and I were in a forum of people where we just said hey this site is open what do you think of the site one of the guys who who typically is a complainer and you all know who those people are he said I'm the site's fine but I'm having trouble with search I can't find what I'm looking for well that was the main crux of this new project we were rebuilding a training site that has over a thousand training videos and one of the biggest problems was you couldn't find anything in the search well we went to great lengths to make search awesome and it is awesome and so Nathan said what do you mean we'll call him Frank what do you mean Frank well I searched and it took a couple of seconds to find what I wanted how dare us yeah but those are our clients they're used to having high-speed internet they're used to getting things when they want it and when their their product doesn't work the way they think it should meaning they blink a couple of times instead of once went for a page to come up the sky is falling Karina used the word hair on fire that's what we have some clients that come with us if this page speed you know gets below 99.9 she comes at us with her hair on fire because they want instant gratification how about multi devices do you enjoy supporting your web clients on multi devices we had a client not too long ago that said I'm my iPhone 4 okay stop right but there are thousands of Android phones how do you support a thousand of Android phones there are people still use iPhone 4 I guess this guy does but then up to iPhone 15 Pro Max then we have talk about computer monitors I mean how many sizes of computer monitors are you get my point your client reaches out to you and says hey I'm my my CRT running IE six yeah okay you get it we have we have clients that are really really independent until they're until they break the site and then they write to us and they say hey somehow somehow all of these posts are gone or these this whole product group is gone suddenly they're very dependent on us and by the way you go into stream if you don't use the plug-in stream I highly recommend it because it tells you everything anybody does on the website you go in and say oh yeah yeah you deleted all of these this morning at 8 29 and this is your IP address and your username so stream is the name of that plug-in really really useful our clients have expectations that are often elevated far beyond what they need to be a simple site and they want it to be like CNN I get it their business and their baby their organization is the most important thing to them and that's the way they come to us as as the agency we have a guy who is a self-confessed Luddite if you don't know what that is it's somebody that's not necessarily against technology but they don't they refuse to embrace it they choose not to embrace it we have a couple of those Luddite type people and then we have people that have run websites for their large organizations we have this whole gamut of people and so do you we serve around a hundred clients and we have people all over that spectrum that we support so it can be a real challenge right when you're supporting people who don't care about technology and don't want to know it but they have a website that's important to their business or organization and then we have people that get in there as an admin user and do stuff that we wish they wouldn't do because they they have the knowledge but they don't always understand the the waterfall effect when they do something impatient do you guys have any impatient clients just the one two of you okay well they will skip this but impatient clients and part of that is training and we'll talk about that in a second we train our clients to be impatient sometimes there's a couple of customers that will put in a ticket and if they don't hear for me within two hours or three hours they're riding back is everything okay or somebody will have emailed Nathan something and it's one okay it's not somebody it's one particular client and she will write to me I haven't heard Nathan an email this morning I haven't heard from him is his family okay did something bad happen I'm like settle down he's been in meetings all day he'll get to you when you can and by the way you're not supposed to email Nathan you're supposed to email a tick you're supposed to create a ticket so we have impatient clients why is it important for us to serve our clients we build some of our clients we didn't build a website for but most of our clients we built a great website we build great websites but if we hand a website over to a client and that's the end of our relationship you are well you're leaving money on the table but beyond that that's not serving a client and at the at I really think that our our goal ought to be to serve the business serve the organization serve the individual a full service that actually makes them successful not just deliver them a great website and then never and then be gone now part of our process is I don't think this is I think it's okay to say this if it's not we'll strike it from the recording but part of our process is we don't build someone a website or take on a client unless they take on our maintenance agreement and there's lots of reasons for that which you probably already understand that we're not going to go into but when you provide great service to clients your brand reputation is going to be good we do not we don't solicit clients how long has it been Nathan since you had to look for a client how many years can't even remember our clients are all word of mouth why but just because we build good websites not oh we do build good websites but that's not why that's not the only reason why we're also great at serving our clients and that's not anything about us per se we just understand the bigger picture we don't just build a website for someone we serve our client as long as they need us to serve them and that increases your brand reputation and people people do care about that why do you hate to schedule anything with your cable provider to come out to your house why do you hate that so bad yeah they give you a six hour window of we're gonna be here from now for either you know between 8 and 4 p.m. that's one of the six hours I do do math that's 8 and then you get a call the next day they never showed up hey we got to your house at 7 15 and there was nobody there we're gonna have to reschedule right is that great service no it's not do people hate calling Cox cable in Oklahoma City they do for that very reason people like to interact with us because we serve them well we do what we say we're gonna do it increases your brand reputation word of mouth referrals and then your business is also gonna grow we have a site that we did when did we do the Ben's Ben's first site two years ago a really large nonprofit in the legal world we built that website for them they love the site they loved our service and we've done two more big projects for them in the last two years and we're about to start another project with him why is that is it because of a great website partly yeah but they like us it's not and I don't mean you know they like us as in the junior high hormone way they like us because we I didn't mean it like that either they like us because we serve them well we make them successful we make their site successful and our business grows because of that we are at a point where we are ready to maybe turn down some projects because we too many people are wanting to build a site right now that's a great problem to have see the so your business can grow and then long-term relationships hey I know we're not trying to we're not trying to make friends by serving clients but why not you know what if you do build long-term relationship with people that are outside of the the simple partnership of being their web provider what if you do make a is that so bad if we serve somebody in a way that makes them our friend and I'm not saying you know this is not a psychology 101 class but we need relationships and what if the relationship that means the most to somebody is with a support guy on the end of support at brilliantly.net because he cares about him as a person not just as a problem you know is that such a bad thing I would say it's not and I would say if you strive to to build relationships with your clients it goes a long way for your business as well but I would say if you're only doing it to grow your business and that's not real and it may backfire I don't know but care about people that's the that's the point I'm gonna fly through these because man time goes fast when you're standing up here demonstrate your expertise yeah we we get to in the support forum we get to support ticket system we get to show that we know what we're doing and that's a good thing it's a good thing to know what you're doing and to that your client knows that and we I would say we probably stand out from many competitors of like size agencies because we are really good at supporting our customers and not just in the ticket system but we're good just good at supporting our customers because they're they're people they're not just customers they're people I don't know how many I tried to figure out how many web agencies there are in the United States I had an argument with chat tpt about this it kept saying why don't you check these documents and I said you have access to these documents will you tell me a number well as of 2021 I did we went back and forth I didn't get a number but it's thousands and thousands and thousands in the United States so what what sets you apart why would someone want to come to your company it can't only be that you build good websites because lots of people build really good websites for that matter you can get cadence WP and cadence pro and they have thousands of really good starter templates that somebody that can sit down somebody can sit down and build a pretty good website now I know most people can't really do that but somebody that knows how to do WordPress can you have to have something else that sets you apart and I would say that supporting your customers is that thing that can set you apart and then maximizing revenue that you know that is our goal I know I skip past it's okay maximizing revenue is a goal and we look for ways in our support in our support stream to maximize revenue to build revenue not too long ago just like you guys we were making the switch to GA4 we our customers that care about analytics kind of knew how to use universal analytics kind of but when we switch to GA4 it all bets were off so what did we do we started getting questions about how do I read this what do I do we built a simple I wish I had a I would show it to you but I don't have a screenshot we built a simple dashboard in looker studio and we call it our essentials our essential insights report every client gets it it's free on page two of that form on page two of that dashboard there's a nice call-out that says hey this is our essential report would you like to go deeper we list some ways that that could help them track the usage of the website whether it's conversions or whether it's going deeper on you know form fills or whatever document downloads there's a button that takes them to the brilliantly site they can fill out a form now full disclosure I don't think anyone's filled that form out ever but there's that opportunity we saw a need in our support system we filled that need and then we we have built a product that no one has bought yet that doesn't mean they're not going to but we've got a right Nathan they might maybe maybe wanted to but you look for ways to leverage your support to build the revenue of your business so boundaries oh we missed the guy he was looking all happy I'm gonna go back yeah so it's a this is that these are some things that I have learned in the last couple of years about success full support it's not misspelled I know how to spell successful this is support that is full of success okay so number one and Nathan said this I didn't just yeah you said this in your talk this morning I am not a superhero now some of my some of our clients in the support system they think they think that we're supermen because we do things that they can't do but I am not Superman I am not a superhero and here's the here's the fact I want them to be the superhero I want to support them in a way that makes them Superman because I want them to be successful because if they succeed our agency succeeds we have customer longevity we have two customers that have been customers of brilliant webworks for over 20 years we have a large e-commerce international e-commerce site that has been rebuilt by brilliant webworks five times in the last 20 years we are about to start another rebuild for this customer this is a big client why are they still with us we've helped her succeed and she's she is a great nice person but nice people aren't gonna stick around unless they feel successful and we've helped her succeed and that helps us succeed so when our clients succeed we succeed don't train your clients and you're all going okay come think about this you get an email from your client about oh 8 15 p.m. you're sitting on the couch with your your spouse watching TV ping you see it on your watch you go oh yeah you know I could do that really fast pull out your laptop or you even do it on your phone because it's that simple email the client back hey that's taken care of what have you just taught your client I am available any time you have a problem and I'm gonna respond immediately don't do that please if you don't take anything else out of this room don't train your clients to be that client because here's the thing it's not that client it's not their fault you think your client expected you at 8 15 p.m. to turn that around in five minutes no they were probably sitting in that so you had it first thing in the morning but you've trained your client hey anytime you have a problem you email me I'm gonna take care of you I can tell you what with around a hundred websites that we manage it's impossible so train don't train your clients but train your clients we have some clients that have a problem understanding that we don't take support requests by email that we have a special email address for them to use that that creates a support ticket in our system and it does not have either of our names attached to it and yet we have a couple of clients that continue to do that how do I respond do I go ahead and do the ticket do the request I do not I reply and say hey I got your request this is something we can take care of pretty fast if if you want if you do what we've already asked you to do which is go to email that to support at brilliantly net we're happy to do that but we have we have trained in our training our clients did my phone really just say I have five minutes left it did so yeah don't train your clients but do train your clients protect what's actually important I have a wife what's not up there anymore I have a wife and a bunch of kids that need me you have people in your life that need you that are far more important than your business I get it you have to have your business or you can't survive but please build some boundaries into your life we're gonna go so fast listen to your clients read your clients emails understand what your client needs if you don't understand what your client needs ask ask so often I've learned this lesson the hard way I'll read part of the message and think oh yeah I know what's wrong with that and I'll fix it and I'll send back the superhero message hey we have looked into this problem we have fixed the problem and I haven't even understood what the problem was so take some time with your clients understand what it is that they need and don't just jump don't just jump to a fast solution think about the problem think about what your client actually is asking for because they don't know how to ask right even if they know what they want they don't know the right words to use so don't assume you understand unless you're certain that you do I understand that my time is up to stop okay clarity clarity this is this is hard for me personally they already know that I'm that I'm smart I'm smarter than they are in this sphere doesn't mean I'm smarter than they are overall but they already know that we're smart or they wouldn't be they wouldn't be our clients be clear with the clients I got this example here's the here's a clear concise response to a ticket there was a conflict between two parts of the website software that was causing the issue we fixed the issue and everything is working as expected now I stated what the problem was in words that they're gonna understand or at least there's a good chance to understand what how about this this is chat GPT I gave chat GPT the clear answer and said they make this really hard to understand here's what I came up with upon examination of the plug-in software architecture we identify the recurrent discrepancy in the cross-script communication where the server side PHP functions were inadvertently invoking an asynchronous event handler leading to a cascading failure in the website's front end of functionality blah blah blah blah exactly huh well we can be tempted to show off because if we if we fix a really complicated problem that real that truly is complicated and it truly proves how smart you are our clients don't really care what they care about is that button wasn't centered it was off to the left that's all they care about is that their button is back in the center right so be clear with your clients so they understand make a screencast show them what you did if it's possible to show them because your clients often want to be able to do these things themselves did you know that they don't really want to ask you well some clients do but they don't they don't want to be so dependent on you if it's something that simple make a screencast I'll do that and I'll say hey this is what I did if you want to do this yourself here's how to do it and then I will follow it up and say but that's we are here to help you so if this is not something you want to do you reach out and we'll do it for you anytime but maybe they do want to know we have clients that want to do it themselves if they can at all costs if it's at all possible that they can and tell your clients what you did and if there was a bugaboo tell them we have a large client it was one of the 20 plus your clients a couple of weeks ago or maybe a couple of months ago we had to migrate their site to and their server and when during the migration we looked at the database to clean out some stuff and we dumped this table that had the word log in it thinking oh we don't need that that's a log we can clear it out it was I don't remember do you remember like 600 megabytes is that's not one table with 600 megabytes this is a huge banking education site you know what that log was for each of the the practitioners that are on the site in their hundreds it was tracking how many people had viewed their personal profile and that appeared on their dashboard so all of a sudden all of the people on this website that are practitioners lost all of their data and that was a huge thing and that was not a bug it was not a glitch okay it wasn't we but it was we right because we're together did we you know we could have smoked screened him and said hey we figured out what the problem was there was some weird glitch yeah the weird glitch was us we screwed up and we're sorry we fixed it he was great with it so don't keep secrets that always comes back to bite you and for all don't lie because that's going to come back to bite you your clients are going to participate they're gonna not participate they're gonna appreciate it rhymes they're gonna appreciate your honesty be an expert and become one always continue learning there are resources way more resources than you could ever go through to keep learning keep learning find out what's new out there doesn't mean you're gonna switch to it immediately but you you know what a lot of times when a new product comes out the product you already use that's that's that's similar they're gonna have that same function so when you find out about a new thing that's really exciting maybe the parts you already use has has that function or they're gonna have it or you could suggest it so I'm not advocating that you you flip around on software we have the same plug-in stack that we've had since I've been there I mean we've used a little we've changed it a little bit but we don't change software very often and I'm not advocating that you do that I'm just advocating that you understand what's out there keep track of the software you use because active actively developed themes and plugins are always getting new features and those new features can help your clients and they can help you serve your clients better so always keep on top of what's new in the products you use and this is hard for me you can't you don't know it all and you can't know it all and your clients really don't expect you to know it all it really is okay to say hey you know what I have no idea how to do this this big site that we launched last week the whole site was that way at the beginning of the project we I don't know that we told the client this but between us we were like I don't know how to do any of this but we found we figured it out we learned to do it you can tell your client hey I don't know how to do this but that sounds like a really cool idea and I'll look into it and if it's not you know if it's not you know too huge or a project I'll get back with you and we can discuss how we can make it happen and that leaves a lot of room it may be something simple that you can do as a support a request but that left the door open to say hey this is really cool but it may be that this is not something we can do in our support agreement and it may cost though we'll talk about that later so your client if you don't know how to do it you can't know it all and then you should know where to get answers right where are some great places to get answers alright skip through but slack groups what are you gonna say yeah stack overflow yeah there are some people that aren't very nice let's stack overflow sometimes right so you have to make sure you've had your coffee but yeah that's true as long as they have the answer yeah slack groups other developers places like this right you know how to find the answers so responsiveness this is a this is a catch 22 because we don't we don't want to respond immediately to every support ticket because I don't want people to think hey the second I sent something he's gonna be sitting at his chair and he's gonna fix it but I also don't want it to go too long because I want to serve the client if if the ticket is hey I'm a locked out of the website and we've got to make this change on the website because we have a newsletter going out to you know 10,000 people and I can't get on the site I need help I need to respond to that fast right they need to get on the website so you really have to balance this you have to you don't want to respond too fast but you don't want to respond too slow so time timeliness is important be strategic in your responses what do I mean by this if when our clients reach out to us I a lot of them well I can't name names we have some clients that that will take advantage they will ask for something that sounds like it's not gonna take too long and then I can get an hour and a half in and our our is it okay to say what our parameters are our parameter is a support request will take me less than 15 minutes take us less than 15 minutes to do so if I just respond back and say hey yeah that's no problem and then an hour and a half later I'm still fighting through this request that's I don't know I'm not gonna do math right now but that's many many many support requests not one so be strategic if this looks like something that's gonna take too long you gotta tell them don't surprise them at the end of it after you've done it and say hey that took me two hours and I'm sorry we're going to build you at our hourly rate which is you know whatever it is now don't do that respond immediately say hey I'm gonna take a look at this but this looks like something that might take longer than is covered in your support agreement and we'll need to talk about that if that's the case be strategic don't promise the moon seize the moment if you're having a go back and forth in the ticket system with a client like you're responding and they're responding immediately back and you respond again and they respond immediately back take advantage of that don't fall off the planet because that's a chance to close that ticket to close that that request and also you're having a dialogue with the client which is really important so don't fall off the earth now they may fall off the earth that's their prerogative they can do that they can stop replying but as long as you've got their ear and you're trying to figure out their problem seize that moment and take care of the problem don't put things off you've all heard this you don't file an email into a folder if you can do it in five minutes or less if there's a ticket that's like seriously a five minute ticket just do it it helps your customer it gets it off your list we all have that that thing in our brains when we can check something off it really does something for us and I said promises promises don't make promises just don't do it just don't do it just do what you say you're gonna do then you don't have to make promises let's you yes be yes let you know be no and do what you say you're gonna do and that goes a long way for clients I'm gonna skip through most of this right here because time is up so the slides will be available by QR code I'm gonna skip through this whole thing because you guys are already efficient I can tell so what happens when you have a client that does that does something wrong really bad we took on a site about two years ago it was a rescue site the developer built the site in Elementor we don't like Elementor but that's only because we don't use it it's not in our stack but we took on this nonprofit customer really out of I don't know why yeah mercy it was out of mercy and the site had problems and this lady bless her heart you all know what that means right when you say bless her heart yeah it was a couple of weeks in Nathan had warned me he said now this lady's a little sharp not not sharp but you know like sharp knife but it's fine we won't have to do much for him but there were problems and she started emailing she wasn't doing what she was supposed to do number one she wasn't using the ticket system started emailing and I got this email this day one day and it said I can't figure out how to work with you people well okay that's all well and good but don't call me you people right it was hard not to respond to her I wanted to I really did in my in my flesh I wanted to respond to her and it wouldn't have been horribly ugly but I you know I could have responded so a couple of weeks ago this was about two and a half years ago that she came on board I got we got well I got it through Nathan a couple of weeks ago this is the same lady thanks for the consistently fine service your company provides us Chris's first class no not about me this is not about me but what if I had responded that day the way I the way that all of you I I would not be first-class and we would not in her mind have consistently fine service you know what's funny about this lady is well there's a lot of things but what's funny about this lady is we took we took on this client with terms that aren't our normal terms even so she's not even paying the normal rates that that are our normal customers make pay but the point is even though that was the case even though she was the way she was we served her and we have served her well and she's very very very appreciative of that now it could have been that she didn't come back and we would have needed to fire her I am not advocating staying in a client relationship that is never going to get better there are times you need to fire the client and move on and so I'm not saying that you shouldn't fire the client this hasn't been too long ago I'm we are probably the only ones this happened to but we did GA for properties month months and months ago almost a year ago but Google for some reason punished the people that did what they were supposed to do and if you had a UA property that still had the UA code on the site it created a GA for account for you a property for you and attached it to that UA code really really helpful for when you have a hundred clients it's really helpful this particular client she's the one that always has her hair on fire but we requested access to the property she get granted us access to the property I noticed that there was a connected GA for account to the UA account it wasn't on the site it was only being fed through the UA code we had the correct GA for code on the site it was running so what did I do same thing I do for all the other sites I dumped the GA for I did unconnected it disconnected it and I dumped it in the trash can minutes later no what do you think you're doing and that is exactly the way she typed it with that many question marks and then she proceeded in the body of the email I just gave you access to the property and you have deleted 12 years worth of my work when number one I got 28 days to pull it out of trash can and number two if you had look and then and I am actually grateful I didn't see this Nathan handled it and then he said hey did you see the interaction with thankfully I had not but he's and what he said was if you look at the email this is not a property that's being used this is a property that was automatically created the property that is being used is still active it is not in the trash can and she replied back with something like oh well I looked at it and I thought I understood fine I would not have reacted to her at the moment we did react between the two of us but we neither one of us really reacted to her so here's the last thing this is one of my little boys I love it when he wears this shirt in a world where you can be anything be kind your client you don't know what your clients going through when somebody is being ugly to you you don't know what they're going through and you know you may be the only kind person that they're going to interact with that has nothing to do with website development nothing to do with client support that has to do with being human we all need kindness and I advocate to you be kind to your clients kindness does matter you get to choose there's a there's so much we can't choose but you get to choose if you're gonna be clients if you're gonna be kind to your clients yeah it goes a long way for your business but more important than that just be kind I'm Chris Malone I work for Nathan one of the greatest web development agencies in the United States and it's been my pleasure to be with you today so any questions like really fast questions because we are out of time okay if you want the slides they can be there you can I don't really have a place where you don't worry it didn't have the lid on it you can get me on on Twitter X all right thank you guys