 All right, here we are we're live live on the metal voice with the metal voice. Well The hard rock and metal voice the Queen of Scream There'd be Mills first time first time on the metal voice. Look at that. You know, it's interesting because I wrote X singer former singer and everybody goes no, she's the original singer and I'm going and you kind of look it up and and you are pretty much the original singer I mean, where do you count? Like, where does it begin? Like personally, I think it's the first EP or the first album ever singing on that. That is the original singer your thoughts You know what Denny? He's was the first singer in the band. So You can call her the original singer just like Matt for now was the first drummer in the band So he would be the original drummer. So But the one thing that I know for sure is the six releases that the headpins put out There was only one lead singer and that was me. So I am the singer on all the records So I will make I will make the call right now. I will make the call right now You are the original singer based on the information. You just gave me you're on the first album That's that So, so I mean what if like, you know, a brother or a little brother of singing those songs Yeah, yeah, yeah, by the way, it's still getting a little choppy, but we'll work with it It's getting a little choppy, but it's going so anyways original singer and former singer of the head pins Garby Mills a pleasure to have you on when you're Canadian like myself You everybody knows the head pins especially in in our demographic or this age group will say a little older a little younger But pretty much in this age group. So we grew up on the head pins. We grew up on your voice It was when we turn the radio on we hear the head pins. We turn the video on near you are so it's a pleasure having you on And for those of you who don't know who she is We're gonna go back in time a little bit and we'll come up right to the present I guess All right, that good Are the fish fed and back you everything's good Let's my 2,000 guffees Can you hear me, okay, I used to have Yeah, you You've gone soft months or twice, but like he said we'll we'll make do it's all good I can only hear half the time anyway, so Really, okay. All right, okay, let's start from the beginning. No, that was a joke. Okay All right, gotcha. All right, let's start from the beginning You were a young Canadian singer on the the rock hard rock scene will say The band chill a lack for those of you who may or may not know was this Canadian band They had a few hits in the 70s a Splinter from that group Started the head pins And you were asked to sing for the band after the first singer will call Maybe you want to just start right there. Okay? Yeah, yes, what do you want to know? Well, I guess the question is just tell us about sort of first Getting into the band after singing maybe a thousand gigs in other bands I know it's not a direct question, but I was kind of new Yeah, I was a um, I just graduated From high school. I had moved to Calgary, Alberta and spent the better part of a year auditioning And doing the steady loop of cover bands while I was there Ended up auditioning for a seven police piece part of me African-american band from Harlem, New York who had just transferred to Edmonton auditioned with 40 some odd people got the gig Rehearsed for about three weeks with them went out in the road and about a month on the road trip with them ran into a band called steelback and Because I didn't want to do I need a word you can ring my bell and Donna summers. I wanted to rock out. That's where my heart was so I left Business before pleasure, which was their name and joined steelback and within a year. I got a call from Tula McLeod Saying that they were replacing their singer and would I join the band? So I was 20 years old when that happened. That's pretty amazing. I'm 63 now so You look yeah, it's it's it's a pretty amazing story Um You you get into the head pins. Have they written any material at this moment before they start working on I guess the first album and or play the shows are you working? That first album is that material being worked on has it been already done? Or are you just participating in the sort of or contributing to making that first album or at least some demos? Uh the song people was already done and brian used to sing people and You know what I can't I don't Think anything else was written I co-wrote don't make you feel like dancing with brian. We basically wrote Turn it loud in the studio Because what happened that that all came together really fast because the head pins was still supposed to be a side project for brian and ab who were in in chilewac, but because Mushroom records where heart had recorded dream bodani um shelly seagull had Died one night unexpectedly so the record company in the studio was in turmoil Everything came to a hiatus or a stop and that's why the head pins started to go into the to the bars to play Those were back in the days when you could play seven days a week For a month and a half in the same town I mean there was so there was so much live entertainment so much work available So they they did that for about six or seven months while chilewac was getting a new contract through solid gold records and when they came out who um You get chilewac back in the studio and get all that figured out Steve propaz and niel dixon who were the heads of solid gold record came out one night to see this funny band called the head pins that brian had put together in the bar and uh a week later I was signing. I was the only one to sign the solid gold record contract That's for that album. I was the only one signed because they figured they had brian had signed for chilewac already so I was the sole proprietor of turn it loud wow, okay, so did you also Was the deal also with publishing and what what was that like? I mean I mean you're the sole Signitor of the the contract the record like did you own the name at the time? since you were the Uh No, I did not no brian. It was brian's name. It was brian's band. It was brian's idea. It was brian's everything Um at the time I was 20 years old and along for the ride little did I know that I would also be The fall guy when it all fell apart that the debt would fall on me to be paid back Even after being fired, but we won't go there Unless you want to we'll go we'll go there as we progress. Okay, so it's a little choppy, but we're gonna work with this I just like to get it straight. So you sign as a sole proprietor a proprietor Or as a corporation. I would think you put your name on the line, right? I signed the contract. Yeah, I was the only one signed to the solid gold record deal Okay for the first album for the first album For captain. Yeah after that We ended up doing a lock up your son's tour Without brian and ab and then we got on the kiss tour without brian and ab and we were just We were knocking it out of the park and we ended up coming back on tour Um, I think it was with the lock up your sons Which was toronto and and Myself as a headpin and brian and ab came out to the memorial arena in vancouver and they saw that the The crowd was just going wild and it was right after that that they left chilewac and reformed or rejoined the headpins full time Wow, this is pretty amazing. So So you sign the contract the band's not under your name Of course, you're young and not all of us know what's going on when we're young, right or a little naive You're doing all the work. You've you've basically wrote From the first album. How many songs did you co-write? I could see you don't to make you feel like Winning Keep walking away Were there any other songs that you co-wrote on that first album that you were credited for Nope that you remember. No, no, no, there's um, there was some songs that didn't make it on the album that's uh I I wrote a little bit with but brian brian had a publishing deal and uh, he he needed to write songs and And so he'd throw me a bone every once in a while and let me do some writing It is something that I learned later on When the band tried to reform After we'd broken up four years later. We did a reunion tour with brian and ab and um an american label Wanted to jump on and they wanted to sign us again And by that time I'd been in the business for six or seven maybe eight years and I realized that then How you made money was being a writer. So I um, I said, I'll come back. I'll sign up again But I want the ability Or at least the opportunity to participate in 50 percent of whatever goes on the album Not that I would get 50 percent, but at least the ability to contribute And that was one of the main reasons why I didn't reform with the head pins in in 98 Because I was told absolutely not So, but but but just going back my chances of making money Absolutely, I hear exactly what you're saying it makes sense When but going back to the original album the first album The video this iconic video that probably is instilled in all our young canadian minds Well now they're older, but Tell me about the the process and the concept when you created that video and that this wasn't the mtv MTV wasn't as big as people thought it was back in 82 you would catch these videos on the sort of The offbeat channels or as a sort of like an hour during I don't know cbc or Whatever the case was but tell me about the making of that video and the concept Well, that was dug in the dug from dug in the slugs He was doing a lot of video work at the time and also managed by the same manager that the head pins had at the time and I he got called up. I'm assuming by our manager and said why don't you uh Why don't you do this video for the head pins? And so that was his concept dug The dug came up with it and again Because brine and ab were still secretly part of the band they weren't in the video uh at that point either fascinating so So when it was the video released like was that before you started the tour or or Before or during the tour when was that video released for that song? You know what I I can't answer that. Um I can't remember if if they were one supported the other or if it was I you know what I just I cannot give you A solid answer on that around the same time. I'm assuming um because Yeah, we only got we only got one video per record back then Uh, which which didn't help at all because at the time Videos were taking off mtv was taking off much music was taking off because it wasn't much after Much after that that our uh Road publicist our publicist denise donlan left to join much music And she did her show on much music. So they were fairly established by the time she left. So, um Yeah, you know what and all honesty a lot of that is a blur It was we did three albums in four years. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot and tours and tours So I guess what I'm getting at is that when you started touring the first album Was the momentum slowly building and building and building and of course it was because you sold something like a You know, you went platinum the album in canada What about the us where there I think there was What's that? Yeah, it went double-plant. It was at the time which was 1982. I guess it was the fastest Homegrown canadian recording or album in the Days I say this a lot when you actually had to leave your house Go to the record store and Go through the records find what you wanted buy it and take it home It wasn't to just open up your phone and download it. It was when people actually had to move Get off to pick up your product a very Yeah, get off the couch. Yeah for sure Yeah, and and at what point so you're starting the first tour and Was it was kiss the first tour? You just played a few shows right in canada with kiss What was that like? Uh, I no lock up your sons was the first and then right after that was kiss and we did I think it was six shows in total and It was are you kidding it was incredible. I was I was seeing gene and paul without their makeup on I went When I was in high school the the the guys that I hung with that were in bands were kiss fanatics I never quite understood The kiss thing until I found out I was going to go on tour with them And there I was sitting having dinner every night at the across the table from gene Simmons without his makeup on it was it was quite an experience and I left enough of an impression On gene that a year or two later He was on tour kiss was on tour over in europe and they came across or else they were on tour with them Helix and gene went up to brian valmer and said hey, you know that You know that chick from the head pins, you know her what what's she all about or whatever it was he asked right so I I tell that story with great passion because you know to to leave an impression on somebody like gene Um, that's an accomplishment. That's a feather in my cap that I'm I'm not going to drop anytime soon That was the tour when vinnie vincent was the guitarist If you remember that I guess a lot of people didn't know who he was at the time I don't know. Did you did you speak did you speak to kiss other than having dinner with gene? I mean did you interact with vinnie and I guess eric car back then? Because you know both those guys went off, you know No, yeah, no they they They were not overly social but vinnie that was his first tour and he was having a bit of a time And I remember I think we were in either Montreal or Quebec city and um We got there for our sound check which would have been directly after kiss And gene was on stage with vinnie Sorry vinnie I'm telling it again, and um, he's like You walk up on stage and you stand there Give him a growl walk up Ah, and then turn around and walk back and I'm like wow, okay stage presence 101. So that night People who were there might remember it was the tour where they had the big tank With the risers on the side that looked like the tracks of a tank and then the drum riser rotated with the big barrel out front Well, he jumped off He jumped off the truck one of the tracks and of course they're wearing platforms like this and it it twitches So he does one of these boom It's the barrel And and it's from oh my god because I'd never seen I'd never seen an accident on stage before I was still green enough other than my own that I'd never seen a pro Have an accident like that and I was like that poor guy, especially after getting stage presence 101 that afternoon from gene, right? But it's uh, it was like, okay, you know, I guess You can go up and make mistakes We all do it. So that was a wonderful evening not so much for vinnie, but um for anyone looking for a laugh, I guess Back then kiss creatures of the night was a sort of hard rock metal comeback for kiss I know the audiences were soft for them probably not for the head pins because you guys were kind of on the up And they were kind of like coming down a bit So it must have been an interesting dynamic for the crowd I would suspect you probably got a bigger applause at munchie all than kiss did Back then. I mean just speculating here. I wasn't there. I have friends who were there Um, you know where we did get a bit bigger applause is years later when we went out with zizi talk Oh, yes, we'll get to that. We'll get to that in a second. We'll get to the second that all right So the album does well when does uh, when does mccloud too loud mccloud come back on tour with you? At what point does he come back halfway through Uh, at the end of the tour at the beginning of the tour when did you say, you know what this head pins thing Is gonna really work now Yeah, it would have been shortly after after the kiss tour and I think what what really What happened is that the album that they were in finishing was finished and um And yeah, we We're getting kiss tours for crying out loud. Of course. He's like going what what am I doing? So, um Yeah, they came back after that and then and then I think what ended up having is we went right back into the studio to release the second album line of fire Let me ask you for the first album. Like I said, it's a blur. Yeah, you know, it's all good. It's all good Don't worry. We're not we're not holding you to anything. Um, the first album Are you are do you receive royalties today? Have you gotten paid? from that double platinum album from canada. Well, there's there's Four or five different factions now of getting paid the way there's like live performance Um, but a short answer is I still get some money from it. Yeah. I mean, am I paying my mortgage with it? No No, okay. Okay, but Okay, good because there's a lot of bands out there who in the back in the day in the 80s who sign these contracts and they got nothing They got an advance and that was the end of that, right? So that was not the case for you guys because I'm assuming after two, you know two uh one uh two times pot in an album Tend to pay off the bills a lot quicker that way. Was there any sort of did you feel like the us? Was was there was a lot of more demand than you guys went out to pursue In the us like because I mean your your video was played on mtv. That's what I remember I mean, so there must have been some sort of demand happening there as well Yeah We were we were signed to atco records in out of new york um about halfway through the success that we were having in canada if I remember correctly and What happened there is that When they Did the the release we call it now a soft release because they didn't have product in the stores So we came out we were on much music, but you couldn't buy it anywhere There was no downloading at the time you actually had to go buy it at a record store so That that killed any momentum that turn it loud and don't make you feel like dancing Would have had in the states because you couldn't buy it right so the record company wasn't making money However, it was their fault that there was no product in the stores So that deal went sour and we got picked up right away By the second album We got picked up by mca out of los angeles at universal studios spent some time there thanks to them and um They started to build they started to build a an american Platform if you will for us at that point Did it take off? No No, it didn't But then we did the third album and did that take off? No, but each album got progressively lighter Because radio was getting progressively lighter. So, uh, brian's writing style was becoming more and more Closer to what he was writing with chilewac Kind of sort of right there were no more turn it louts uh, yeah But who who's to predict what radio is going to do and and what the mtv and much music we're going we're going to jump on right? Yep on the second album you start who signed the contract on the second album I guess brian, uh brian abin myself. Well, we're all on it. Uh for the second album Yeah, so now he's saying wait a second. There's some something here. I better put my name to this album just in case Because it looks like things are moving in a good direction. You know what? It's not that he didn't want to It's not that brian, uh, or ab didn't want to in my opinion. It's that they Solid gold already had them on contract with chilewac. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha All right, so the the writing Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how long did it take to write the second album? You're writing it on the road You're writing it quickly the songs were already ready. Like what was what was that process like? No, no second album was written in the studio Oh, just like that. So it's like book some studio time. Let's crank them out. That's it Geez Back in back in the 80s. Hey, they used to write albums in the studio So that's pretty good. That's pretty I mean for an album like that. Geez. All right. So you you did contribute to the second album as well, correct? There was you have co-writing. Yeah, I got my token two or three or four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, he let me participate It is as much as as he chose. Yeah for sure And what was the vibe like in the studio like the good and the bad Well, do you remember the bad and you remember the good or it was just everything was flowing pretty nicely I It was the same four people in the studio or five all the time or we had pac lover was our engine assistant engineer Dave Dave's changed his last name Dave Hayes is his is his name today was the Head engineer for all three albums Brian was the boss ab was the assistant boss And I was just there doing what I was told to do so it pretty much Just that's that's what it was. Brian would come in with either a song Idea or the song written that he wrote last night. Here's the lyrics or here's some of the lyrics see what you can come up with according to to me and And yeah, it'd be you know ab what do you think or here's the baseline go with that Brian played all the drums all the keyboards It it was a pretty slick machine We would take two months To do an album. I think again, it's a little bit of a blur I remember getting married At that time and told that I couldn't have a honeymoon because I had to be at the studio and then spent two weeks watching Them do drum tracks And so finally they said go go go on a go on a honeymoon Which ended up being at my parents cabin with 15 relatives, but you know what we got away for five days So I won't complain um Yeah, and when it was that's done was it out in two months Were you just like a hired gun in a sense or were you part of a fourth or a fifth? You know it is legally Or on paper or verbally at least Oh on paper. I was I was signed Opinion wise um I had one doesn't mean it really meant a whole lot, but I kind of get it. He was an experienced uh self taught You know, he was a success in his own right and he had a plan and he knew what he was doing And I was this stupid 20 year old coming in and I was like do what you told naive naive and so well uneducated in the in the industry um naive in a lot of ways, but I still had opinions and uh You know It was it was an interesting dynamic, but um Yeah, in the end the dead ended up being mine so I guess I was signed You were signed so you were Okay, so you're you're one fifth or one fourth at the time I'm not sure of the bad how many members there are at the time if keyboards counts are not died three people Three people. Yeah three. So you brian and ab is that it? Correct All right, so the tour you go on to over the second album. What's the momentum like are things even getting bigger Are are people really, you know loving the head pins? Yeah, I think at that point I can't remember exactly. I know we did one tour where we were the headliners and the Funny side note about that. We ended up up with a bunch of gear from it was either trooper or chilewack I can't remember and we built Uh this math we I had nothing to do with it the crew went and built this massive h That held all our lights like 150 Park hands the big old-fashioned park hands with a like a two-foot scrim around it, which is a skirt And the beginning of the show would start with the h down so you could see it was an h And it had a chaser system around it And then as we go into breaking down it would rise up the stage would fill with smoke or dry ice It would rise up and then you'd see all the lights underneath unfortunately This was our headline tour and I think it was for the second album um They built the h so big out of the 20 Shows we did. I think we only managed to put it up four times Spinal tap moment. That's what we call it The h was an egg Nobody measured Yeah, I only have one picture of it. So I've asked this for 40 years if anyone has a picture Of the h please get it to me because I'd love to have that for my archives And I I'm assuming you had a little success in europe and you've had some success now at this point in the us, correct the headpins Uh, didn't you have like you had a song or the album charted there? Correct. Yeah, we did we did really well over in europe. We went over and toured with white snake. We did Month and a half. I think with white snake and played the hammersmith odian. I mean That that's in the anals of history for me. I mean, I've got posters of our name the headpins on the banner of the hammersmith odian Um Meeting the white snake guys was the thrill of a lifetime even bigger than kiss David carver dale cosy powell cosy pal david covered y'all john lord john sykes Yeah, um john sykes and neil neil murray. I mean Served neil murray. By the way, he has been knighted or had already been knighted. So, uh, that was so cool Uh, and it was sold out every night. We were playing their big big big stadiums um lots of stories Lots of stories from that tour that I can't tell I'll I'll I'll protect the the john sykes the john sykes and and david carver dale butt heads That they butt heads john sykes and david carver dale. They must have not yet Not yet not yet. They they were still they were still buds at the time It was shortly after that that it came down and and surprisingly enough blue murder Uh was recording at little mountain And and carmine was the drummer and he would come out and see my side projects I was already out of the headpins by that time and working uh with uh numerous side projects we would play club soda in downtown vancouver and uh, he came in on more than one occasion but Called up and said you need to come down and you need to sing the blue murder stuff and uh Then the next time I I saw him. He's like, yeah, john said no way doesn't want to chicken the band because they'll take all They'll get all the they'll get all the credit, right? And i'm like, oh come on like seriously But that's okay because it was right after that that I landed my deal my first solo deal with never looked back and mortar music here in canada so a missed opportunity but What do you do, right? Did you did it progress like you just it was or it's just like hey, we'd like you to come in and audition Or you want you want the job or Or you got the job, but john doesn't want you to have the job Yeah, no, if it if it had been up to carmine, I'd have had the job According to what he was saying, but john was having it was not going to have a female in the band They had a male singer in there tracking with them They weren't sure if they were going to hire them and then they ended up it john ended up doing all the vocals For that album and I think I think they did another album after I kind of lost track, but um Yeah, were there any other bands that sort of Similar situation where you know, you had the opportunity or maybe on audition Or you just said no, that's just not my thing um After the after my time at the head pins was over and um, I was I had retained the head pin deal at Warner music in LA And they sent me over to europe where I recorded six tracks Three of them at eel pie, which is p Towns and used to be p towns and studio Um, I had tony levin playing bass Um, the producer was greg walsh who was one of the producers from the tina turner album private dancer It was an all-star cast playing on this But unfortunately halfway through The a and r man who had signed the head pins and and in turn retained me as a solo artist got fired and um I came home to write some more songs And I got a call from meal pie gone Um mca is not returning our calls. Are you coming back and we're like Yeah, what like we'll we'll call them and find out and we call and they're like, oh john doesn't work here anymore Uh, but we'll put you in touch with the secretary of our new a and r department Manager And so he said yeah, come on down. We got something to talk about so my then manager and I jumped on a plane Right away flew down to LA Got there and the new guy says i'm gonna break a female artist this year without a doubt and I can either pick you which In hindsight is somebody else's artist with six tracks done that he cares nothing about Uh, or this 16 year old who basically has no experience, but I really like her it's like Okay, I'm thinking they got a hundred thousand american into the album so far. Let's play that. Let's play the joker card. We're we're gonna Pick now. I want to know So we said no, we'd like to know right now before we go home and he said, okay, if you're gonna make me decide I'm gonna go with tiffani Good old tiffani. So I lost my deal to tiffani Well, the good news is you didn't have to play malls. Yeah, I came home and then got a call from Um I think there's the same thing because I was there at the time by then by then I was 20 There's a delay when we talk just so you know, so everybody by then I was 26 and I know right but anyway, so I came home and um lover boys manager at the time ran into my husband who Actually found the head pins and brought it to our then manager Got a call and our then manager was partners with bruce allen and lover boys manager Worked out of bruce allen's office and he said, you know what darb? Brian to my husband, you really should take darby and go see bruce. You should go talk to bruce I think I think you need to so We're like, uh, okay, and it's I just lost my deal with uh mca in the states and I was feeling a little bit like What am I gonna do with my life? So we said, yeah, you know what? Let's go let's go talk to to bruce allen and My husband used to work with bruce allen before bruce and and sam felt I've been split and my husband went with sam and bruce went off without my husband and so My husband calls him up and he says yeah come down have a meeting we get there And then you were asking if I had any other opportunities I had been asking My manager I really want an addition with van halen because at the time patty smith Was I am the warrior and Eddie were good buds and the rumor was she might get the gig With van halen and I'm like well get me in there. Let me let me try. I'd love to try and He never did He never did and it was very frustrating and so here. I am sitting in bruce allen's office while my manager was in hawai after flying home from la He took off on a on a holiday and I'm thinking my life is over So bruce was the shining light. I thought maybe would give me a lifeline He says darby I don't know what the hell mccloud was thinking your your voice. It's just it's way up in the stratosphere It's I mean it's now. I can't take it. What is he thinking and I'm like, oh my god. Have we made a mistake or what? he said did Did sam ever tell you about van or if I was your manager I'd have had you auditioning for van halen and I'm like, oh just shoot me now and he said Did he ever tell you about keith emerson looking for the chick singer from the head pins last year? I'm like Nope It's you know, you know, it's amazing, you know, yes Just yeah, yeah, you know, it's amazing that you know Somebody was such a phenomenal voice and then you see the big stars that make it and a lot of them, you know They're weak, you know, and they don't have the talent. They don't have the gift And it's frustrating to see somebody who does not get the opportunity. It's all it is the opportunity right at the end of the day sas jordan, I think audition for van halen And a few others as well. So I guess you had a better manager Because that's what it came down to Or one that that that was willing to let her go. I mean, I don't I've always believed that everybody I've worked with has decided that I'm a property to be managed and uh Yeah, I just I just didn't go with it very often and that's kind of why I'm in the position. I'm in right now No, it's okay. It's okay. Let's go back to the timeline now. Now we're on the third album Right, you've toured with white snake in europe. You've toured with kiss on the first album. You're on at what point Okay, so I then the zizi top tour happens and that's is that before the third albums released or after the third albums released Zizi top was um I think that might have been 84 and then the white snake tour might have been early 85 Perhaps um Yeah, I think that that's the the white snake was definitely after zizi top. Yeah And so it was zizi top who threw you guys off the tour Before white snake, correct Yeah Yeah, so it had to be the other way around getting we were at the highlight. We were uh Because you wouldn't have been in the band which which did So you you're white snake in europe and then you toured was zizi top. That's right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah Correct. I'm you're absolutely right. That's right. Um, so then okay. So white snake was Good on you. Like I said, it's a blur. Uh, so yeah, europe was must have been 84 then and 85 was the afterburner tour and um Yeah, we were we were getting The crowd was going just freaking wild After we played which we were only doing like a 35 minute set. That's all they would give us And so we were missing tons of the songs that people were used to hearing us play We'd leave the stage in the hub those lights would go on immediately bang and um the crowd would Would just go wild and it was better than any encore in my opinion because they were stomping on the On the ground and it was either Montreal Montreal or Quebec City that we'd left the stage and went into our dressing It was an older style arena And it had all the asbestos on the pipes and stuff on the ceilings and all our deli train all our booze and everything Was sitting out on tables and they were stomping so hard that it was all falling down into our food, right? But I just remember at the time going This is crazy. I mean We've made it Never thinking we're stars And so here we are in in Calgary, Alberta where the headphones went gold alone on turn it loud That was we played there's like five times in about nine months it was filling arenas and uh out doing the headliners and um So we get to Calgary. We're in the saddle dome We do our 35 minutes set And um as we're leaving the stage normally the house lights would go on even before we left the stage and they didn't go on So we're walking down the stairs and you turn back and look to you know, what what's happening And the saddle dome at the time everybody had lighters no cell phones. It was lit up I wish I had had a camera. We didn't have cameras back then that you It was like wow, this is amazing. How cool is that and it's like They're giving us an encore like they're there's so much Appreciation for us. They've broken down. We we've opened the doors and they're giving us an encore So we get up do our encore leave the stage crowds going wild we get into the dressing room and we hear this slam of the dressing room door and it's like What's going on turn around our road managers there and he's like We screwed up and it's like what do you mean the crowds it's the crowds going The reason why the house lights didn't go on is because the intercom went down and they couldn't get the House guys to bring up the house lights. So we've put the show over by five minutes It's a union gig and now ZZ top is going to have to pay Whatever the price is for having gone over what the they're allotted time is of course They couldn't take a five minute song out of their set, but it was their show But it was their show. So I'll stop but anyway, so uh, he said we just lost the american tour Okay, and then that's what happened. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, but If you break that I was informed I was a solo artist Okay, okay, but wait a second. Why okay, this is where it all ends with you, right? Why were you The scapegoat here. Is that what it was you were the scapegoat? Why like the whole band went on stage, correct? You know what I think I was Yeah, that wasn't why that wasn't why I was I was let go. Um That had nothing to do with me. I didn't make that call Again, it was just the fact that I'm a pretty strong personality and I will only take abuse So long or I only watched someone else being abused so long before I'll stand up and and say something and and Granted, I was not perfect and I didn't know everything that everyone else knew but I had an opinion and and at certain points I Would express it even though nobody wanted to hear it. So I think at that point I had just expressed My opinion enough that brine Had just decided this is his project. He's not going to take uh any flack from some woman Telling him how his his project should go and there are some specifics that I won't go into because you know quite honestly I don't think it makes brine look good. So I'll stay there I mean, it's good to it's good to understand. You know, um, I I mean, it's good to understand people like why you're let go. It's not yeah You ruined it for the band or anything. It's like That's what I'm getting at like it it's it's important people know I just hadn't I had my own I had my own agenda Okay, so you're you're out of the band now You see what I'm doing here. I'm building this timeline to understand where you are today so people get a better picture right You've signed the first album you signed the second album You signed the third album of the band signed it or three of you signed it then this this I don't know what point you went back to the head headpins Or what point you had a debt When was this debt revealed from your manager? Tell me what happened next. I know, you know, you went you had a solo album didn't get released I got all that but when we're talking about the specifics of the debt When did you realize these there's a debt here happening? Pretty much after I left bruce's office Okay, and and what is this debt? What do you owe? It was uh a 500k for Had to debt for 500k. Yeah Why were you solely responsible? Exactly But why but why why were why I have no idea Well, I mean if they're gonna they're gonna sue you Did they sue you or they try to sue you for this money or they just said pay us up Yeah Yeah, they did I I ended up, uh, I I had a uh, I had a lawyer for a while And then it was obvious that it was not Going away and um, so I got a A Free lawyer. I can't remember what they're called but a government legal aid. Yeah, uh sign lawyer And he basically just said off Screwed So at that point, um, I had been out of the headpins for Oh my goodness, um Five years and even before that happened um Okay, it's it's a little bit Uh fuzzy at this point Brian and I kind of made up in about 98 and we did a reunion tour brian ab and myself And we brought in a new keeper player and a new uh drummer and we went out in the road We had some interest from an american label and um, yeah, that's when That's when The paperwork hit my desk again and the management contract was about an inch thick And uh, the record contract I never even really got a good look at because at that point I brought it up already. I just I realized now being in the business of Owing at owing money and and uh having At that point for record deals That had failed I wanted to be able to write more I didn't want to be relying on live Shows to pay my bills. That's like I'm no longer a kid without bills. I have I have payments I have and I understand how important writing is um So I asked to participate in a percentage of the writing and I was told no that That's that's just not gonna happen. It would be up to brian how much he'd let me write and I just said well I had a pending origin a solo deal with um mca in canada Sitting there waiting for me to decide what I wanted to do and so I would give up the songs I'd written with that to join rejoin the head pins so that I could possibly write and so I chose not not To go back and that's when the new singer came in And uh, they they went on from there So, um, but pause right there. Just yeah, and then there's still the next question No, no, there's no next the question is I'm still trying to stand this $500,000 debt This this bothers me They're sending you like what is it? It was a touring expenses Was it production of the album? Was it coffees and pizzas for everybody while you were recording the album? Was it the manager claimed you never got paid? And why were you the scapegoat? Why were you the only one responsible for this? This just blows my mind And that's a lot of money 500 000, you know 15 20 years ago, right? Well My my solution was when I turned down The headpin the new deal with the headpins to my former Manager was you know what? Okay, let's stop the lawsuit right now. I will offer you what you were paying me On headpin albums, which was one point and he wasn't having any of that This guy's still alive. He's very very wealthy and very big and manages Some very big artists. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you know what? Whatever there was I don't think there's an artist out there that's been in the industry as long as I or even less than I That doesn't have a horror story regarding either a manager or a record company or getting screwed pardon my language in in one manner or another so Um, you know what? It's it's the ability just to dust yourself off and say, you know what? Um This is my life. I've committed 45 years of my life To music and being a performer and I think That I deserve the opportunity to keep working. So that's what I'm working towards is the ability and that's the good attitude That's a yes to work in this business That's a great attitude I guess what really bothered me is why you're the only one responsible for this debt That was the part that really bothers me But we move on. Um Then you rejoin with the head pins right like you mentioned and They got a clone singer Okay, they got a singer but we'll call her They got one singer that I've heard that I saw the live feeds nothing did no offense to her but you still are a better singer and Why I guess the biggest question is What's this dispute now about them sort of taking shows from you or Promoters not booking you that's my curious now. I'm curious about that now You can answer that if you don't want but I'm curious about this Is this sort of just promote and promoters are businesses and they could choose whatever they want to choose And whoever they want to choose But is there some sort of legal threat or is it just basically look buddy? Just don't book her book us um This could Possibly get really really messy in the future. It's been seven years now since I decided that um, what was happening with The last version of the head pins that I was part of had become Again, I've mentioned this before I was a possession. I was a property and um, it just It was so frustrating. I I couldn't work in that environment anymore And not only had I lost my mom who I had been caring for my mom and dad for three years When she passed uh six months later my husband had a heart attack and basically flatlined in our driveway in the ambulance They broke 10 ribs bringing him back to life and I just went you know what I I don't know how much time Mortality just became a real It's like we're not here forever Just like that. My husband could have made could have I could have lost my husband And uh, I did lose my mom and here I am Going out on a road working with an individual Who had taken over the entity identity of the head pins and every decision that the head pins were was made for um And it didn't coincide with what I saw and if you did that They were okay. Just being What we were I was I wanted to expand I wanted general members that are still in the band. Um Neither of them had a solo contract have done a solo album have done anything outside being a part Of a band I had I had the experience. I had the knowledge but I was being Told I didn't know anything I didn't have an opinion and I'm I was just Tired of it and realized that if I was going to do original songs if I was going to Collaborate if I was going to try to be more of an artist than someone riding a coattail From 45 years ago. I had to sever the ties. I had to do it because my ability to do it within the head pins was non-existent so I left and it Created a situation that is very unfriendly and Uh, they Again, I'm not going to name names, but if anybody knows the inside story, they know who I'm talking about. Unfortunately, so, um, I'm I'm butt-heading against this individual who has uh acquired in the past 25 years of not only booking the head pins But the other acts that he's brought into his fold He's developed a lot of clout and the ability to say to um A festival You want my bands Or not Yeah, yeah, yeah, so and and unfortunately as you as you saw It's fun. It's it's even gone to interviews now, you know You can't interview her So or we can't interview his bands. Is that it for seven years? Because I was trying to figure out. Okay. What is she talking about threats towards interviewers? Like, I don't know You know it to me. It's like I don't know I thought we had a Canadian constitution and we were allowed freedom of speech and freedom of expression And freedom of the press. So I mean, I this is completely, you know unconstitutional if you ask me but He can say whatever he wants to say I'm I'm pretty sure Yeah, you know, so, um, I just keep moving forward one one day at a time one step at a time keep producing New music. I've learned how to be become a video editor. I'm loving that. I've done I've produced Five videos at this point. I saw your videos. They're really good yet again Thank you I'm collaborating with a A label out of the uk and they're sending me tracks to sing on and I'm doing videos for those tracks So this new one called house of shadows Uh, it's my best work yet If not vocally as as a video editor, I am so pumped and I want to release this so bad But I have to wait for the okay and it's like, ah but um you know what I I've been fighting the boogie man my whole career and not that I enjoy it, but again 45 years in if you I'm just going to keep putting one foot in front of the other and and hopefully um and I hate the fact that I'm having to say these things publicly that we can't sell them behind the scenes, but it's it's right now costing me greatly um acquiring work so, um You know, I think also Canadians have a right to work, you know, and that's another constitutional thing So, um, I think it's it's only right that you express yourself. You're not saying anything mean you're not saying any lies You're just saying exactly what it is There's nothing wrong with that. You know, there's nothing wrong. Well, it's my truth. I'm sure The other side would have a totally different story, but That's that's how I'm seeing it. So Well, because there's only a piece of the pie and everybody wants the pie, right? They don't want to share their pie. Everybody's holding on to their pie And and especially Especially with the classic rock uh genre Very few bands now are originals anymore including the head pins You know, how many bands have all the members? Um, I don't think any of them do and there are bands out there with no original members that are still Working and not that there's anything wrong with that. I think that perhaps it should be Uh clarified that you're not going to see this band. You're going to see players playing this band's material, but uh, that's that's not stipulated in the law Anywhere so It it exists And it's only going to become more prevalent as we age. Um I'm one of the younger ones from the 70s Anybody that was born before me, they're on their last they're on their last couple tours. If not less I think that's a very good point and we always talk about it on this show, you know, like what Is this a tribute band or is this a band? Right? I mean and It's sad to see that people are going to shows and there's some bands like you mentioned. There's no original members I think if there's going to be a replacement singer, I'm okay with that And I'm even if the head pins wanted a replacement singer. I'm okay with that, but at least Uh build on that and that you know, write new material You know continue what the legacy is if you're just going to go out there and play 10 songs every single night It kind of then it is a tribute then that singer is just a replacement That person's not and and and the singer who is rosa She's got a great voice and nothing against her. She's just it's a gig for her right and that's cool too there's nothing wrong with that but At least expand like like you wanted to do you want to write So tell me about darby mills project. Are you going to come out with an album soon? Or are you writing material for an album like a solid album and a lot of videos? You know what I'm I'm really torn On putting an album together that this this european label would like to do an album But the the stipulations that it would be under Perhaps aren't favorable to the artist other than it puts new material out but um And and the players that they've got on the two tunes that I've done so far are A-listers that I'm like Holy crap. He played on this But um as far as doing writing and stuff here. I've um free them is an original I I wrote with gary borden who's out with sas jordan right now and um It was wonderful did the video for it but You know, where does that go it goes to a streaming service And you watch it make you five cents and you know So let's do That 10 more times so you can make 50 cents. It just Doesn't make sense to me right now and I I admittedly do not understand the streaming part of the industry I'm old school. I came from the record store days and uh, even though I'm communicating My manager and I are communicating right now with an independent label here in in canada to find out just where we do want to Go. Um, I'm just not clear on What good it does Or is it A good idea for me to continue doing what I'm doing. I put out a song. I do a video I put it out it lands where it lands and at least when I'm gone I have From 2016 a catalog of material and work that I've done as a solo artist that I can be proud of Whether it made me any money or not um That's yet to be seen. So I don't know. This is something that that Believe me It's like, what do I do where what good is putting all that energy into one CD or one It I just don't know You know, most people Don't understand the amount of time like it could take somebody a year to write songs It could you know empty your bank account to write songs and and then at the end of the day It's just one week of hooray. And that's the end of that, right? And it's so easy to disposed of I get it, you know, you know, it's I don't know. I don't know what that answer is. What about booking shows? Are you are you getting any shows booked? None well This is part of this is Part of our issue right now fighting fighting history. So, um Even bar gigs really what bar gigs What bar gigs? Well, I'm sure there's a few bars. I can't take my band out and offer them honey Yeah, well come to western canada, uh and Getting out to eastern canada. Uh, we're looking at four thousand dollars just to get there. Yeah, so I can't play a bar gig for what a bar band gets paid. Yeah, yeah paid You know, so you hold your ground and you say no, this is what it costs for us to work And this is what we will work for so if we're not going to get offered that money We'll just continue to produce new originals and singles until hopefully one day this craziness that exists in my life right now either comes to an end or I die Let me ask you this if if the people Who managed the head pins today? Oh name names If they called you up they go look we're gonna we're gonna fair this all out. Everything's gonna be fair. You know Everyone's gonna get their fair cut We're not gonna dismiss you because you're a woman or you're the chick in the band We're gonna treat you as an equal. Would you go back to them? I don't see that happening Okay, all right I mean maybe maybe I should be your lawyer in this mediation Yeah, listen buddy, this is what she wants Yeah, yeah, well, I didn't work before so I but that was with brian, right so Pardon me. That was with mccloud, right? That was with mccloud when you when you reunited with him. He's no longer with us, correct? Correct and and so yeah now it's a different man at the helm and he's got his agenda and um Yeah, you know what? I I I think that I really enjoy Boy working with the four gentlemen that uh, well five with our our sound guy They're sweet sweet men who have ridden this past six or seven years and have seen What's come at us and they haven't run away and hidden They've been supportive and um I'm really I'm really grateful for them. And so I'm hanging with them and and we're going to we're gonna do We're gonna do what we can do with gut. I've got uh pokers in the fires. I've got a a new project that's Not officially set or anything. It's called true story Um And it's going to take a completely different uh run At the entertainment industry in other words if I have been Crippled from playing the shows that I've done for 40 years rather than Taking my ball and going home. I'm changing balls And I've got this other project that's in the planning stages right now And uh, again like this, uh, uk label that's working with me and this new song that I can't wait to put out um I got things going on and I'm happy about them and I'm proud of the work that we're putting out and again love these new these new men in my life and Basically, I'm happy I just wish that Whatever turmoil that's coming from my idea would come down had been Well, you're my idea. That's what you do You ready? All right, take some notes You you team up with other sort of Level players like other bands that have you know recognition like you do Like four or five of you and then you go to the festivals. You want me? Well, you got to take all these people, too Hmm Fire with fire It's all legal. There's nothing wrong with that Hey, you know, unfortunately. Yeah, do you know Thor? Thor lives around your parts. You know Thor John Michael Thor. Um I know a couple of the people that work in his band. Yeah Yeah, Thor is a good friend. He's a sweetheart Yeah Yeah All right, so is there anything else you want to promote? um, uh Oh, I I I make jewelry I started making Julie Just before my mom passed away as as just something fun And I'm happy to say that I've sold over 600 pieces at this point And uh, it got me through covid It's kept what I realized one of the reasons why I was so unhappy in the last 10 years With my former band was because I was not Being creative I was stagnated And I started making this jewelry and I got to say It it's it's it's saved my sanity That if you're a creative soul And you're not creating you do stagnate and and it can become It can it can form a depression I'm sure of it, but I was lucky enough to trip and stumble onto this making jewelry thing and um Yeah, I put out a line of 10 15 pieces every three or four months and within 24 hours they're gone and people are crying I wanted that piece. Where did it go? So I'm so happy that that came to me when it did I'm loving doing that. So that's also on the website is where it's sold from darby mills.com Um, not sure when the next line will be out. The last line was like two weeks ago sold gone um I I have been so busy doing these videos and with this new project true story I've got an hour basically a mini movie that I'm doing so I am going to be extremely busy uh doing editing As well as a side project that I put together here in the okanagan There's so many wineries here and when I heard bands like melissa ethrich And uh the the likes are playing these wineries Through the okanagan. I'm like, what am I doing? Not tapping into that. Um, so I put a band together called press play, which is what you would do with the tape deck When you listen to songs of that era, you would press play. So we're called press play and we do songs from the 50s and 60s or Couple from the 50s, but 60s and 70s great old tunes elo lighthouse all the way down to To sir with love From lulu just very very different from what i've done all these years and It's basically my retirement as a musician. I did not put enough away for a retirement fund And there is no such thing for musicians. So Um, I hopefully so wisely have connected with these fantastic players That just all happen to be here in the okanagan all very busy But we have our down our down seasons and it's like hey guys. So we started rehearsing in september of 2019 Our first gig was march of 2020 perfect perfect timing Nope because the world shut down. So we basically rehearsed for two years Which also kept us very sane because nobody could work and every time we did get a gig because there would be an opening of lockdown by By the time the gig came Another wave came around and shut it down. So for two years we didn't work We're now up and working. I we just shot a video on sunday That i'm editing that putting a commercial together for or an ad for us. So extremely busy grateful to be busy and You know what like life on On the other side of the story is pretty good I'm i'm very grateful for all these people that are that are hanging with me and And giving me their time and their commitment. And so we will We will prevail I like that. I like your positivity. It's good good stuff I'm happy that you're still in good spirits And I I I think I'm hopeful I think things are going to turn around and you're going to get all kinds of gigs And things are going to look up and I'm really happy that you're you're you're happy You know things will turn around Thank you And I appreciate you being on the show like I said I grew up on your voice You know when you turn on the radio there you were right and it's kind of shocking that the band goes on without you But that's their prerogative and that's their right to do so and I'm not knocking them for that But you know what everybody deserves to work as well. Everybody deserves a chance to work On that note. I agree. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right You know Darby, hopefully one day you'll be in Montreal and you'll play a gig here when things get better or at a festival Who knows Try the cruises We'll talk soon, okay