 So you mentioned before that you're interested in kind of using or, you know, fiction to convey or to communicate an idea to convey to communicate something more abstract. Say more about that because, you know, most of the time that objectivists have tried to write fiction. It's the story is, the writing is terrible, the story is blah, but they get all the speeches in, you know, and they're hitting you over the head with objectivism. How do you find a balance and what kind of ideas do you think, you know, unless you're in range, right, but what kind of ideas do you think you can convey in a, in a, in a thriller in a, in a who done it type story. Well, yeah, so I mean, one thing I'll definitely stress is my goal certainly wasn't to sell objectivism with the book. I didn't think that selling objectivism is irrelevant to writing the book. I think the best thing I could do to sell objectivism would to become famous as a, as a good fiction writer and have that huge platform from which to talk about my ideas and, you know, promote nonfiction works. So I don't think that they're conflicting goals, but my goal certainly wasn't to spread objectivism, but look, I mean, you know me, you're on the only thing I'm really interested in is philosophy or other issues in so far as I can relate them to philosophy. And so there was no way there wasn't going to be philosophy in the book. But I mean, look, I really took seriously who is this character and that there's there's no way that just some like college girl discovered objectivism right is going to go around preaching it. And I just thought it would have been really inauthentic to the world to have it at that level. But I do think their ideas that I agree with that objectivism agrees with that are more accessible and the kind of thing that an honest person would come to on their own. And certainly if you think in the crime genre, you're dealing pretty much with. Let's call it like more evident kinds of values, not so much the conflicts of individualism versus collectivism reason versus mysticism, but good versus evil and having a sense of what it means to be good and and how people corrupt their souls. And there's a lot of kind of conventional or semi conventional wisdom I think that is, you know, on the right track. I mean, if you just take something like the virtue of justice or the virtue of honesty, objectivism shines a much greater deeper light on what those mean. But most people regard them as virtues and I think you can bring it that out in a in a novel like this and I certainly tried to bring them out. And and certainly a lot of psychology that's informed about objectivism is going to inform my characters, like my understanding of, you know, how a person goes bad and the kind of trajectory that evasion like leads and the kind of logic of evasion, I think is very much sort of in the back of my mind but even comes out in the novel. So there's ideas in the novel. It is a look it's really challenging to integrate plot and theme. And the, I mean, I ran one of our underappreciated insights was what she called a plot theme, which is not just a summary of your plot, it's a one sentence summary of your plot that embodies an abstract theme. And it's only by having that, you know, plot theme, for example in Atlas Shrugged, you know the theme the abstract idea is the role of the mind and human life. But the plot theme is the mind on strike, the men in the mind going on strike. And that plot theme you can see translates directly into this abstract idea and it's that plot theme that allows her to select the characters the events and so on. And I think that's the only way that you can really figure out how to actually embody ideas and not just make it characters mouthing ideas. It's a really tricky thing and you know that's why I say like with with a thriller any genre of fiction with the possible exception of fantasy and science fiction where I think you can do more with ideas. Ryan Rand in bootleg romanticism said that thrillers the theme is always good versus evil I would put it a little bit more. It's good versus evil with life or death stakes. And so you're dealing with almost a perceptual level form of good versus evil right like to he is evil, but he never physically assaults anybody right. And so it's very hard for people to get why is he evil what like he doesn't even seem evil at the beginning, but you know character who plants a bomb in New York City, we can all see. Okay that's evil like you don't have to know much more than that so you can deal with moral issues I think at a level that has to bring in less philosophy. To an extent, do you have a plot theme worked out before you right. When, when does the plot theme come into consciousness. I'm constantly going back and forth on it with this new book, it was more clear cut in my mind because I had more context I had learned a lot with the last one I would just constantly throw stuff into a draft and then go wait what the heck am I really trying to say and you know it was. It was a very messy sort of process, but that's fine. The key is that you need to know by the end of the process, what it is, it's just very helpful to know it at the beginning of the process. But yeah, that that took me a long while to get clear on. And I would say probably it was only halfway through the book that I got. All right, what I'm really trying to illustrate something about justice which shouldn't have been a big surprise to me in the name of my character, but it actually was. Also, if you'd like to see the Iran book show grow, please consider sharing our content. And of course, subscribe. Press that little bell button right down there on YouTube, so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who already subscribers and those of you who already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.