 Welcome back here on theCUBE's live coverage. Day two is we're winding down two days of wall-to-wall coverage. Red Hat Summit 2023 in Boston. I'm John Furrier, Rob Stretcher. He's breaking down all the analysis. We're getting into a lot of the business value, business transformation. Digital transformation really is business transformation. Got two great guests here. We're going to break that down and unpack that with us. Rob Buchanan, Principal Solutions Architect at AWS. Working with Accenture Business Group, part of that team that services the large global system integrator. They're doing great work. And David Rojas, Red Hat's Global Alliance Executive. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having us. It's been wonderful. We know you both, you guys, companies really well. AWS, obviously, and Accenture and Red Hat. It's just the explosion of next-gen cloud. It's just been amazing. Love hybrid, how it's emerged. Cloud-native, KubeCon sold out in Europe, expecting a big sell-out for cloud-native in there. Open Source, you guys were present at both events at AWS, and you guys are obviously a big sponsor of theCUBE there, so we appreciate that. Talk about the relationship with Red Hat and Amazon, how you guys are coming together with Accenture, because the business value now is, you can see the Lego blocks snapping together, and companies are starting to get it on the mainstream. When you see Ansible on the front page of the show here, you're seeing automation, that's not obvious. So you're seeing the minds, kind of the dots connecting in mainstream enterprise. What's the business situation now with cloud? How are you guys working together? Talk about the relationship. It's a great question. I'll start off by saying that, you know, I remember reading recently somewhere where like 64% of cloud migrations customers failed, a little like, we're getting value, but we're not getting everything we can get out of it, right? And it makes me think, it's like a sports team, right? If you have the right teammates, you'll succeed. If you don't, you'll succeed, but not as much, right? You need the right players involved, and we really believe in the partnership, you know, the power of the three, right? AWS Accenture and Red Hat, and how we work together. So the ability for each one, their kind of own domain expertise that comes in, AWS obviously has the cloud platform, tons of cloud native services, integrations with our products, working closely with us and our developments used to build out those products. Accenture, a given, right? They have global expertise and how to implement, how to get these things out. And like you mentioned earlier, more importantly, it's not just getting out the technical solution, but the business value impact to those customers and to their customers, customers as well. And of course, Red Hat, we bring the open hybrid cloud story that kind of ties it all together. And yeah, Rose, we're going to dig in to Rob. Talk about Amazon because AWS, you know, just the amount of services, high level services that's been released over the past, just say six years have been credible. Remember when SageMaker was launched and then just kept getting better and better and still get the S3 and EC2, all that good stuff. Accenture took advantage of it. And they're building on top of AWS. They have their own stuff. They have their own staff. They have their everything. You know, that's great. Again, great question. We have over 300 services now. And when we start thinking about what AWS really brings to the table, it's bringing scale, agility and flexibility and enabling Accenture using products like Red Hat, using products like Rosa, right, to help those customers accelerate their cloud journey from on-prem into the cloud. So if you think about, I'm using, you know, today if I'm using, for instance, OpenShift container platform on-prem and I want to make a change, I want to move into the cloud quickly. You know, if I'm trying to do that on another service, it's really challenging. If I'm using Rosa though, I can very quickly spin up a cluster. I can set the scalability. I can have several different types of pricing options, right, but the bigger point is, I have an actual API platform, right, that aligns to what they're used to working with. I have all of my development tool chain I can make use of and really I'm only worried about is refactoring the data source, not the entire application stack. So I think that's pretty important. It's super important. In fact, we had a customer, a joint customer on earlier today and what they were doing, actually bank out of Argentina and they were using cloud as a place where they do, they build some models, AI models on-prem and then they were using actually the cloud. They're bursting up using Rosa to go and train the models and then bring those models back on-prem. And I think- Yeah, like a bank. Yes, it was, yeah. And it was just a great thing. Are you seeing a lot of that? Is that like kind of a canary in the coal mine the light at the end of the tunnel kind of thing where people are heading towards that kind of use case for Rosa? Absolutely. That's a fantastic use case. It really is. And we do see it a lot in the field. Customers are looking for solutions that are multi-cloud, they're hybrid cloud. They're looking to make sure they can do certain things. And not just on-prem and in the cloud, also all the way down to the edge, right? And we have to be able to be flexible with those workloads around. We had a session earlier today on Sovereign Cloud, right? And the ability to move something. I mean, look at the war that's going on in Europe right now. Explain that Sovereign Cloud issue. That's huge. So that is, yeah, that's a big one. And that's something where, you know, we work with Accenture, the presentations between Accenture and Red Hat. And we really brought out the fact that in Europe now it's regulation. It's not a matter of whether we think this is a risk or not. They have to have the ability to bail out these very secure Sovereign Clouds. And then more importantly, move them in an instant. For example, like the war that's happening in Ukraine. I was talking to Tenuja Randers. She's an EMIA managing director for AWS. Sovereign Cloud is the number one issue in Europe right now. And what's happening is it's enabling a new channel of partners for AWS and the stakeholders. So you're starting to see Accenture being like its own thing on top of AWS when before cloud, they would, you know, be a service provider, right? Okay, integrator. Now they're a cloud. You know, that's Accenture Cloud, I'm concerned. Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, it's kind of what we view it as the power of three, right? We've got a fantastic partner with Accenture. We've got great products with Red Hat. And we've got scale with AWS, right? So kind of back to the question around, are you seeing a lot of AI models being brought up into the cloud train and then pushed back down whether they're going to go on the edge or they're going to run them in-house because they feel they have some really highly secure data and they just don't want to let it go. We are seeing that. The reason why you see that is because it is quick to scale up to a massive amount of CPU, GPU capability, right? Or take advantage of potentially some custom silicone offerings, right? To train those models, get them done very quickly. Instead of taking 60, 90 days to train these models, get them done 14, 15 days. Pull back down the train model and then make use of it, right? That is absolutely a use case and that's where you start to see really the power of the cloud and you start seeing that agility flexibility. But it also really shows the power of being able to use OpenShift and ROSA, right? Where we can move these workloads without having to refactor everything, right? And get advantage, take advantage of all the other services we have available on platform. And that's where we get excited too because we can utilize from OpenShift, from ROSA directly, seamless interaction with all the cloud native services that AWS offers. What's the benefit of that for the customers? Is it time? Is it cost? I think it's both. Both, yeah. It's both. If you think about it, one of the biggest time sinks, right, is I'm having to retrain my people how to use the technology, even a stack that you're used to using on cloud platform, right? With ROSA we're trying to keep things very similar, right? Again, same deployment tool change, right? You have an easy console and or CLI to make use of to spend things up. And really just kind of run with it and make use of it. We want it to be familiar and easy, right? For our customers to make use of. Simple to scale up, simple to operate. Yeah, and it helps beyond just the implementation itself. You're human capital, right? Training, upskilling your folks. You don't have to. People are used to AWS, they're used to using the console. Doesn't change anything when you use OpenShift. You know what I think it's interesting is that, you know, as we have all these communities, we get a lot of data. You can get a little horizontal scalable observation data space, as you will. This is like an open source, like when? Because out of an open source, Red Hat's made their money from letting it grow and grow, but making sure it's stable. Yeah. That's a huge thing, right? People sometimes underestimate the value of stability. I mean, essentially has to worry about tier one customers, they got security concerns, they got operational day two, day one and day two operations. It just seems like with AI, there's like so much more pressure on the ops, because there's hype behind it, but there's some legit use cases that are compelling. And so what are you guys seeing with customers as you guys together work on business transformation when you go back a year, go six months, the business conversation around AI was zero, okay? It was digital transformation, but even Adam Sileski was saying business transformation at re-invent. And he did tease out LLMs in my interview with him, but it was just like a small little data point. The surge started in January with ChatGPT, which woke up the whole world. What's that doing for operation pressure for you guys when you see, because it's trickling down into KubeCon conversations, where these are infrastructure folks, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we get one of these locked down, stable, secure. So the security, let it run, let it saute, let it bake, but accelerate, but whoa, guardrails. What do you guys see? Well, one of the biggest factors I see is around governance, right? Data ownership, right? And then we start talking about those guardrails, right, with MLops. The way we view it, right, is if you're going to run those models, you're going to run them on your accounts, in your environments, right? You own the data, you own the benefits of what you're doing, even if they're foundational models, you're just adding additional, transitive learning to it, right? You should own that, you should make use of that, you should get the benefit of that. And again, when we're thinking about some of the services we can run with Red Hat on AWS, right? We're following that same standard AWS data policy, if you want to think about that way, right? We have that shared responsibility model, we also believe our customers own their data. It's not ours, it's theirs, we don't touch it, they have it, they take full advantage of it. It's not always the same with some of our competitors, right, we're taking a little different approach, you know, with our products and our services. But at the end of the day, the biggest challenges to AIML is not, you know, what are we going to do with AIML? You know, what are those use cases we're going to solve? No, we've been thinking about this for 20 years, right? Or longer. The biggest challenge is how are people going to govern AIML in their environment, in their ecosystem, and what is their operation model going to change to? I think that's interesting. Well, that brings up the next quote, by the way, I agree with you, by the way. The chaos that's behind that is, in a good way is, once you've realized that's the situation, then you go, wait a minute, is my architecture properly laid out? Because you've got Silicon and Cloud, okay, get that. Now the question is, is the foundation models operations before the foundation models, and is the tooling layer below that? So like, it starts to get into a solution, architect conversation, where how do you lay it out? And is it on-prem or is it in the cloud? I'll give you my obvious answer, you know? It's in the cloud, and the reason why it's in the cloud is because we can do it very quickly at scale, right? With very few limits in terms of how much we can get moving to train these models. We provide additional options, right? We don't just have one model we can throw at you, right? We have multiple large language models. We have multiple partners in that ecosystem, right? We're working with to deliver those large language models. But at the end of the day, we're really focused on, again, governance, security, guardrails, right? Making sure that your CISO isn't freaking out whenever you say, hey, I want to use those AI models. They're not going, what do you want to use them for? And what's happening in my data? We can tell you succinctly what's happening with your data, because it's not leaving your account, not leaving your business. And just to call out something you mentioned, the data problem that's out there today is proprietary data getting into the proprietary models that are not owned by the company. And which people have been by accident tripping over that issue right now. Correct, it's significant, you know. I'm not going to talk about it for a minute as well, but when we start thinking about how we work with future technology, data is at the center of everything that we do, right? So whether we are building these amazing applications on Rosa or using some of these AWS services with those amazing applications, data is at the center of everything we do and control of the data is that future battle. And the red hat relationship to you guys has been what? Talk about the relationship with AWS. Well, red hat is one of the few partners where we actually have a service that we're offering in partnership with them. You know, with Rosa, again, it's really an amazing service. It allows you to run those open shift clusters very easily, but you know, an AWS customer can get support both from AWS and from red hat for an AWS service that we're running with red hat. We work with red hat on that service, we operate that service with red hat. So from my perspective, we have a very tight relationship and it's pretty special. Awesome. Absolutely. And what's your commentary on what you guys are working on now? I'll see tight. I mean, you got engineer, I see that there. I want to get that out there, but what's next? What are you guys working on now? Can you share any insight to what's in the oven right now? I'll talk a little bit about Rosa, right? Because I think it's important to kind of pull off on that and then I will add more on some of the other items. But with Rosa, I'm a runner, I like to run marathon, whatever, right? There's a start line and a finish line, right? At the finish line, that's unmovable, right? It has to be business impact period, right? But the start line, we can move. And what we've done with AWS and partnership with red hat is built Rosa, which moves that starting line. You don't have to start from building the data center, putting all the components together. We've done that. AWS and red hat has done that together, bit that platform and on day one, folks like Accenture could come in and help you build that business value, work on the applications, modernize those applications. And that's what we're excited about there. So Accenture can see the runners that's fast, that put the start line back here and get the slow folks move the line up a little bit. It gets to the finish first, right? I would rather run a marathon, it's on my bucket list item. My ankles might not be able to handle it. Well, I think it's also really good to point that out though, right? You think about your enterprises, right? Anything they don't want to use goes through a rigorous security check, right? When we're bringing something to them that they've already checked, it's familiar to them. They can very quickly extend that back into their environment and again, offer it back to their teams. Yeah, and I think if I understand it well, is Accenture is also extending into the app building and helping the actual modernization because it's a journey, right? For what people are doing, because having been at AWS myself and understanding that, not every application is built to run on cloud yet. Just lifting and shifting doesn't necessarily always work so well. So there is that modernization. I assume that's again, a big piece of what Accenture is. It's a huge part of what Accenture does and helps our joint customers with, right? For example, there's, I'm going to say simpler things, right? Like you're running an application on RHEL, lift and shift that over to RHEL on AWS. But modernizing the application, you lift and shift, that's not going to work well. You need someone like Accenture to go in there and has the background, has the knowledge and can build that out and take you through that entire journey along with the three-way partnership that we have. And I think that's where the AI will have a real impact is when people realize I can refactor a lot of this heavy lifting. And sometimes it's differentiated and undifferentiated. So, you know, Andy, Jesse's favorite line is, we take away the undifferentiated heavy lifting. Well, now with AI you can do both. You can actually make differentiation automated. Absolutely. That's a good point. For instance, we just released a new service, Amazon Code Whisperer, right? Which will help you do some of that differentiated heavy lifting. Along with, we have migration services. And again, we work with Accenture and Red Hat on these things as well to accelerate converting code into cloud native, things that are supported better by cloud native. Modernizing old code, going through an app modernization cycle. So it's pretty exciting. Guys, we really appreciate you coming on. David, last, give you the last word. Alliance, you guys doing well. Inside the industry ecosystem as well as open source. What's the update? What are you guys looking forward to? What's on your plate? We're excited. We mentioned earlier, Sovereign Cloud, big play for us, right? That we want to work with everyone with. But there's a number of other offerings, including hybrid app modernization, which we also talked about. Things that were worth of Accenture and AWS. And right now we're really working on that journey to the cloud, right? To AWS's cloud and how Accenture and Red Hat can work together to get everyone into the cloud and make sure that they're not part of that 64% that I mentioned, they're part of the 36% that feel very satisfied with what they've done there. And I think those, you see a lot more people leaning into the cloud with AI because I think the pandemic got everyone off guard. If you weren't in the cloud or at least toe in the water, you got washed away. If you were in the cloud, you could leverage it. I think with AI, we're at that moment now for the next year. Who is not leaning in? Might be on the other side of history here. Yes. I agree with that. That would be true. Rob, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. David, thanks for coming. Thank you for having us. Okay, we're on theCUBE here live. Day two as we wind down. Couple more news in our summary. I'm John Furrier, Rob Stretcher. We'll be right back with our next segment after this short break.