 Okay, we're back, we're live, we're talking to Gowrie Kandekar, our correspondent in Brussels, that's how we call it, midnight in Brussels, and we usually catch her sleeping, and then we talk to her, and she tells us what the news is in Europe. So we try to stay current, you know, on what is really going on in Europe, and we've talked about so many things over the past few months, and there are tons of things still to talk about happening in Europe that we here in Hawaii never hear about. So we are delighted to have her on the line with us. Hi Gowrie. Come here again. What an honor. We'd love to have you. So you sent me an email with no less than 30 possible news stories, and so we'll start at the beginning, and we'll see how far we get. So there was a meeting recently, I guess on Brexit, between Merkel, Holland, and what's his name from Italy, three of them, yeah, frenzy, and this has implications. They're trying to shore up the situation and trying to get the EU strong. Why did they have the meeting? What did they talk about, and what was the reaction after people heard what they did? It's a show of unity, most importantly, until Britain left the EU, it was one of the three largest countries along with France and Germany, but now that the UK will be leaving, Italy has taken its place as the top three largest countries in the EU, and these countries also need to lead the EU, because that's how it works in terms of voting and political pull, basically, and Italy is a strong international player as well. So this is basically a show. It's to reassure markets and reassure the populations that Europe is going to move stronger and go ahead in terms of integration. But what's interesting is that the meeting in a specific island called Ventotene, where a manifesto for a federation of European states was signed. But also it was Altiero Spinelli, and he was an anti-fascist. He began writing this federation of Europe. So it's more about also a symbol to counter nationalism, which is of course growing across the world, as we see now, even in the United States, so it's more symbolic. Yeah, really, I mean, we have an interesting mix, and I guess you can say this is happening in 2016. You have some people, and sometimes the same people, who want to go back to nationalism, and then you have other people who want to do away with borders entirely and feel that borders are irrelevant now these days, and we would all do better without them. And in Europe, I think you hear both voices speaking in Europe. So these guys are talking about putting down the borders, I guess for the most part, but also protecting their nationalist constituencies. So which one seems to be dominant now, putting down the borders or bringing the borders up? Well, to be honest, it's still quite a struggle. You have so many people in Europe, even supporting the cause of the refugees. Media seems to fluctuate between the plight of the refugees, and recently I'm sure people must have seen this seven-year-old boy who was picked out from the rebel and he's bloodied and he's covered in dust. And that becomes a symbol. And then you have main media fluctuating between, okay, there's a huge influx too, we should do more. And the same with the population, there's so many who are supporting it. So I think that's one of the biggest issues which is leading to a rise of nationalism apart from economy, of course. Just recently, the European Commission's president. So the European Commission is one of the three main institutions of the EU and it proposes law. It's like a bureaucratic body of the EU. And the president of that body, Jean-Claude Junker, who pleasantly surprised me and he said, we need to bring down borders. They're the worst invention ever made by politicians. And it was sweet. And it's basically he said that people need to fight against nationalism and they need to not follow populists. Because of course, as he said, the work ultimately leads on. It's so true. The future is quite uncertain at the moment here in Europe. Yes, and there was some privacy laws, some strict privacy laws that have been considered in Germany. But now they're being reconsidered because people are not so sure they want to protect privacy given the problem they have with terrorism and with the migrants. So it seems to me that 2016 is kind of a tipping point all over Europe. Which way shall we go? Shall we go to repression? Shall we go to humanitarianism? Shall we protect ourselves on a national level? Or shall we try to strengthen ourselves on an EU level? And I feel that anything could happen at an event or two, a terror attack or two, could change the way the tipping point works. Right, you're completely right. And there are lots of changes happening here in Europe. I mean, Jihadist terrorism is a relatively new phenomenon in Europe. Of course, Europe has faced a lot of terrorism, but in the 70s. And that was, well, you know, the IRA in Ireland and the UK and so on, various terrorist organizations. But these were mainly intended at nation states and a particular country. And this is, of course, a very different modus operandi of terrorism. It's an organization which crosses borders. And most countries don't know how to deal with it. I mean, we've spoken about how Belgium dealt with so poorly with the terror attacks and it could have been avoided or, you know, how they've coped up with it. And just before, so I've done quite a bit of research actually on counterterrorism. And what is surprising is in 2008 to until very recently, most websites, there's very strict laws protecting freedom of expression and even child pornography websites were not taken down. And so when you have this Jihadist content, what do you do with it? You know, if your laws don't support you to take strict action. But that's changing. Countries are now mulling over how to best tackle terrorism. Would it mean giving up liberties or, you know, patrolling borders externally? How to do it? So Europe is really coming to terms with it. But what's surprising and shocking I read today even is that the German government has told its population after the Second World War actually to stock food and water for at least five to ten days. And this comes right in the aftermath of all those attacks, especially in Munich last month where people had to clear malls and streets and basically go into strangers' apartments to take shelter. So this is a new development. Yeah, that's new and it's a little scary. And at least I think Germany and France, there's issues about the burkas and attempts to require people not to wear them to make it, I guess, criminal to wear or they can't come to school and wear. What have you heard about that? Yeah, I think it's a silly debate, honestly. And there's so many people who support it. Basically, two cities in France, Mies and Kahn have banned the burkini. For those who don't know it, it's kind of an Islamic, okay, swimming costume which basically looks like a wet suit with a hoodie as well. So it's a covered swimming suit in lycra. The debate is more tipping on racism, I feel. If you go to the French beaches, people hardly wear anything or who cares what they wear or they don't wear. A lot of French beaches, they don't wear anything, right? Of course not. The New Day's beaches, a beach should be the last place where you have fashion police and the people who are now wearing burkinis on the beach are being fined and fined heavily, actually. But I think it's silly. I think it's a silly direction. It's baseless and if you have a fashion police or there are a lot more for-pass committed in Paris than wearing a burkini. My only suggestion would be don't wear a black one or you're going to get mistaken for a seal by choice. I have to get to Europe so I can see what's going on. But the French... Go ahead. No, the Deputy Prime Minister also came in support of this ban which I really feel is so ridiculous, you know. But that's where we are going now. We have a lack of... We have an identity crisis. Yes, that's what it is. People don't know where to go. And I think that that creates opportunistic possibilities for people like Mr. Putin and for that matter for the terrorists. They can see that Europe is a little bit disorganized right now. It doesn't have a combined response. It doesn't have a level of collaboration to deal with these difficult issues. And I think opportunists will take advantage of that. I think the opportunities are within Europe. Is this populist party, the far-right, the extremists who would exploit the agenda, come to power because so much of this nationalist movement is about power and it's about elections. And it's about staying in power. So you have mainstream politicians who have made really silly and unfortunate decisions like David Cameron made with the Brexit referendum to stay in power. And I think the biggest enemy of Europe is within at the moment. Well, you know, it's very interesting is that people saw Brexit it was only 60 days ago. They saw Brexit as a blow to the economy of the UK and for that matter a blow to the economy of the EU. And now we've had 60 days to kind of cool down about it. And I wondered, you know, what people think about it now both from the EU side and the UK side. And I've noticed on your list of articles there's some articles talking about how some of the politicians in the UK want to appoint themselves as emissaries to Europe as if Europe was further off, you know, a more foreign country than before. And they want to be the representative of the UK in Europe. What is happening? I mean, it's a new mindset, isn't it? Yes, it's very confusing. I mean, Theresa May, the new Prime Minister came out saying Brexit means Brexit. But what does that exactly mean? Nobody is clear. The only one who had a plan was Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of Scotland. And she knew exactly what to say and what to do. Nobody has an idea what Brexit actually means, what it's going to entail, how much losses they're going to be already. The pound has gone down so much against the euro and other currencies. It's created quite a bit of loss to the UK economy. The problem is that the media have not reported as much about opinions now as they had before and during the referendum. So that's the main issue. So the information is not being circulated properly. I think Britain and most of the people here think that the UK made such a bad decision and it's only going to get worse because they're going to be locked out of a market which is basically the world's largest economy. Together the 28 countries make up the world's largest economic space. If you read also some of the reports which came, for example, farmers in Wales voted against the EU but they get 60% of their salary from the EU because of this common agricultural policy which subsidizes them. That seems silly to vote against it, yeah? They voted against themselves. They're shooting yourself in the foot. Yes. And now the latest reports say that Brexit will happen. So the British exit from the EU will happen by the end of 2019. First it was 2017 but now it's 2019 and I think it's going to derail the UK and the EU's external relations which is also, by the way, the topic of my next paper which I'd be happy to share. Yes, tell us about your next paper because it's directly on the channel here. No pun intended. So my new paper deals with what Brexit's impact will be on the EU's relation with the world, especially Asia. And I think it's going to completely derail relations. This is for a couple of reasons. So the EU has negotiated a set of agreements, free trade agreements with a lot of Asian countries. They're under negotiations still. The only one signed, of course, is with Korea which of course the US also has. But the other agreements are going to be in jeopardy because they are no longer valid and these negotiations have lasted for example 10 years in the case of India, but a lot more as well. So already trade is going to be impacted severely. FTAs are so important and the US already has the TPP so it's way ahead. But the other impact is going to be because Asian countries have traditionally interacted more with the EU's individual member states. So this is only going to get worse both for the EU and the UK. Well, it was kind of predictable but now it's happening in case people are wondering it's happening. I mean if I were far away, if I were in India or China, I would look at the EU and say that place is less together than it was. It is less a power to deal with both on a geopolitical level and on an economic level. So I don't take it as seriously. In fact, I would like to compete and win against it economically. Don't you think that the weakness offers a kind of economic opportunity to other people and they will see what happened as a weakness and then it will reinforce itself as a spiral. It's not a good thing for the EU, no? Definitely not and I think what it has done is probably strengthen the position of the US because the US appears as the more reliable western partner. Until now it was the EU. It was a huge union of 28 countries, politically united, economically united of course. But it has left the US as the only credible western partner. That's interesting. At the same time the US is trying to shore up Britain's prospects and trying to do deals directly trade deals with Britain and so maybe that helps Britain but I don't think it helps the EU much. But then I wanted to ask you about Corbyn, the labor guy. Wasn't labor against continuing in the EU and yet Corbyn is still active on the issue? He's been in the news. What is going on with him? Yeah, apparently the labor party is in shambles because nobody wants Jeremy Corbyn in leadership, his MEPs, his colleagues. But he has support of the public somehow which is an enigma. He's not a charismatic leader. But he's joined Donald Trump. He's allied himself with Donald Trump. Yeah, well, you know, you can understand. I mean, it's a group of motley fellows. Yeah, it's an odd group now because you have a socialist labor leader who's now aligning with Trump and I don't know who could align with Trump. Strange, strange, strange beyond strange. Strange bad fellows. Just going down your list, there's one more thing before we do a break and I saw a very brief, abbreviated reference in your list of news possibilities that there was a suicide bombing in Turkey and it was at a wedding. Oh my goodness, what a thing. And 50 people were killed at the... And that probably was so brief because the people that were reporting the news didn't have any detail. Has there been any detail since then? Very unfortunate details. Apparently the suicide bomber was a 12 to 14-year-old boy. It's really sad. It was a Kurdish wedding and it was politically motivated but the fact that they're using children like this is the worst possible thing you could imagine. So there's the saddest bit coming out of Turkey. Oh, that's so sad. We have a lot of challenges today. Not only with the Kurdish history and the ongoing struggle but with ISIS and with the EU and also itself. After the coup, Erdogan has strengthened his hold on the country so significantly, he's liberated even prisoners, 35,000 prisoners to make place for coup protesters. Sorry, the ones who he thought supported the coup and the list includes a lot of academics as well. And it's the worst move for Turkey. Yeah, not good. Not good in a region which is not having a good time. Well, let me take a short break, Gauri. That's Gauri Kandikar, Global Relations Forum. We're catching up on so many things in Europe. We'll be right back after the short break. Welcome to ThinkTechHawaii.com. This is Johnson Choi, your host. My focus is Asia in reveal. We talk about interesting subjects in Asia. Be sure to check the ThinkTech.com website on the next topic. Thank you. Great content for Hawaii from ThinkTech. Hi, I'm Kili Iakina, president of the Grassroot Institute. I'd love you to join us every week Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. for Ehana Kako. Let's work together. We report every week on the good things going on in our state as well as the better things that can go on in the future. We have guests covering everything from the economy, the government, and society. See you Mondays on Ehana Kako at 2 o'clock p.m. I'm Kili Iakina. That's a lot. We thought not much was happening in Europe, but in fact a lot is happening. So much is happening that we can't possibly cover it all. So we'll have to get Gary back in a few weeks and catch up on these things. But let's turn east. Two pieces that occurred to me here is one is eastern European countries are launching campaigns to lure citizens back from the west. It's no surprise I suppose that a lot of countries in the eastern part of Europe are losing their citizens to the glories of the west I suppose. And now they want to lure them back. What's that all about? It sounds like more nationalism Gary. It's a little bit to do with nationalism but I think it's also to do with demographic change. When the central and eastern European countries joined the EU and it was a huge expansion. Ten countries joined the EU in 2007 followed by Romania and Bulgaria in 2012. At that time when these countries joined they were much worse off I would say. They were economically backward and they saw western Europe as an area of huge development and job opportunities and so a lot of central and eastern European educated workers educated people workers and all kinds of populations moved to the west especially to the UK which is one of the reasons why Brexit also was pushed forward in the population but also to Germany and Belgium and all the other countries. However with the economic crisis and the recessions that followed western Europe has been reeling it's still reeling from the economic shocks but at the same time thanks to Europe central and eastern Europe has developed a lot because what the European Union does is also have distributed funds called structural funds and these are used for development, infrastructure, etc. etc. also human resources. Now these countries are in a much better position and they do need the labour back the qualified labour now the labour also has a lot of experience and there is employment. So now they need the undies for a back because they're in growth phase well you know what's very interesting about that is that the Brexit was a blow to the EU a disruptive blow and now it's sort of sorting itself out again as indicated by our first new story where Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande and what's his name from... Matthew Renzi from Italy met and you wonder what was their common point is that they are the three biggest economies I suppose in Europe but Europe is in flux and we may find, I'm interested in your thought about this we may find that there's a rebalancing going on an economic rebalancing where the next time you look at Europe the next time you look at the EU you may find that the Eastern European countries are stronger relatively speaking perhaps a stronger part of the EU is this happening? Is the economic power drifting East now? Is that what's going to happen? Well funnily enough or sadly enough Italy's debt to GDP output ratio is just better off than Greece so it's the second least attractive in Europe it's the worst off, second last worst off so it is huge debt growth across Europe is quite poor it's not a growing economy it's not like Asia which is growing at rapid speed the Nordic countries continue to do better they're the ones that are the richest at the moment of course Sweden, Finland are much better off and have remained that, remained so Germany is still leading the EU in terms of growth and GDP and output and economics but you know what's going to happen this is somehow a good trend that Europe is balancing itself out because these countries used to be really more poor off they just come out of the Soviet block and they had to be integrated well and now that they are well off they are more independent less dependent on structural funds the EU can really push for more economic integration most of these countries share the euro so they need more fiscal coordination a proper monetary and fiscal union and so they can better coordinate the economic create a more level playing field in a way and that's probably a good thing for the EU to see that new vitality and it's okay to have the focus shift a little bit to the east but I wonder if Mr. Putin would agree I rather think that he doesn't like the idea and will have his own measures waiting to to undermine this process don't you think yes for Putin Ukraine and Belarus are the limit NATO in particular should not expand beyond and that was one of the reasons which led to the annexation of Crimea and more control over Belarus so Putin sees those as a buffer between Europe and himself between NATO and Russia basically and that's you do see recently more aggression in towards Ukraine there are a lot of political opponents that are being killed off in Ukraine more Kremlin opponents it's got Mr. Putin's signature all over it doesn't it it's an open secret in a way who's doing it it's a resurgent aspect in Russian foreign policy and the more Russia builds up near Ukraine's borders the more control it's going to seek and this is what's happening basically at the Ukraine borders I will be tweeting later on a map which shows how much military Russia has built up near Ukraine's borders that's one of the scariest things about the Donald Trump campaign is his connection with Putin and what Putin is doing lately I read a very funny quote which said that Russia an article actually New York Times which said that Donald Trump is actually a Russian oligarch well in a way they make a good couple I think Putin and Trump they have a similar wavelength so I think it would be a new detour for Russia-U.S. relations well I have only one more thing to ask you before we close Gary and that is this thing which I had never heard of before which was in your list of articles it's called Uber Eats Uber Eats that's the Uber car company but now they're delivering food and they're coming to Brussels you must be excited about that we haven't heard about that but apparently you're going to have the benefit of it soon I am really excited about it they're going to deliver food I don't know exactly how well they're going to work but I mean anything that delivers good food quickly is okay in my books I'm super excited for Uber Eats to come to Brussels we'll have to keep in touch with you about that because I think you're the test market and later on we'll have the benefit only if it succeeds in Brussels I will be your lab rat yes Gary it's wonderful to talk to you thank you so much for joining me today it's Gary Kondekar he's the director of the Global Relations Forum headquartered in Brussels thank you so much for talking to me every couple of weeks thank you Gary enjoy the rest of the summer and vacance here in August and we hope to see you in September