 I only got coffee so that's fine well I don't know what it meant what do you want to like start again or from the top from the top oh my man whatever we need yeah I'm just feel like I don't want to just repeat the same stuff well now it's live well I was just all I was saying to these fellows is that the time travel in the endgame doesn't make sense and everybody's gonna tell me that I don't understand it but the problem is that I do that's why I'm having such a big issue right now I don't even think that the film itself understands what it's saying I just want to go over this quote again and I want you guys to tell me what you think is wrong with this statement if you travel to the past that past becomes your future and your former present becomes the past which can't now be changed by your new future what do you think he's trying to say when when Bruce says this where you were so like you know post snap five year plus world that'll never be able to be changed because it's in stone that's not how time travel works when you time travel what you change just becomes a different dimension or world I don't think they use the word dimension ever do they hey what they do at the end of the film but at the end of the movie Bruce says now you got to put these stones back where they came from otherwise you're going to open up a bunch of nasty alternative branches so the film believes that simply removing the stones creates the ultimate branches but the funny thing is like I don't think even the film itself realizes what it's saying the reason why those branches open up is because the stones can't be used to do certain things that's that's what that's what Tilda Swinton says it's like well we can't use the stones like beat dole money shouldn't say exactly that that's what she means so it's like oh so it's it's not it's not simply that the stone doesn't exist it's that the stone would be used by somebody and when they want to use it they can't because it won't exist so like it is cause and effect it means that regardless of whether you took the stones out you guys have already caused a lot of problems by letting Loki escape and by you know fight in Captain America is that specifically what why didn't she say that specifically like if she meant we won't have the stones to defend ourselves against threats why don't you say that instead of the lack of stones create dark branches or whatever like it seems a little bit vaguer than it needs to be well it is vague but I think the reason why they do it is so that the the film's excuses see they haven't done anything wrong they haven't created a bunch of nasty alternative branches because they put the stones back where they came from which funny thing they can't because the tesseract is gone it's been destroyed oh yeah so when they go back in time they're gonna put a spacestone in that little box thing where the tesseract was and that's gonna change the future because well everything that the tesseract is used has been a cube related I would say it's worth mentioning too that when she's like our universe needs our stones back because we need them to you know defend ourselves and then Hulk's just like oh all of us are destroyed do you think we'll be okay and she's like please don't come back to our universe every time you need them try other ones it's like I guess that's how it works right every time you go back you start a new one so yeah billions of trillions of people are just well the idea that the stones can be destroyed and then it's what's the idea that the stones can be destroyed and then it's just fine because they still exist as atoms in the universe is weird that's laugh that's out of the movie as well so isn't that like an attempt at a justification it's like they can't be destroyed they are atoms and it's just like yeah okay so what does it mean to be destroyed the question well no one's ever really gone yeah I have a question regarding your regarding your the quote right I think the what the movie was going for at least that that was so what I thought was that if Steve Rogers somehow manages to get back to that exact moment in time where they took the stones and they'll pretend like it doesn't happen I think that's what they were going for but it contradicts itself because of what Bruce Banner said right this I'm understanding it correctly or well look his here's a question I have right so when Captain America travels back to the moment that he took like the Mind Stone got taken away was Captain America old Captain America doing search and rescue or was he lying knocked out in a bunch of glass in the middle of Stark Tower which one is it like what happened you know what I mean which is what free just mentioned so for example from the ancient ones perspective Hulk leaves and then like second later cap pops in he's like hey here's your stone back and she's like oh that's great yeah the timeline doesn't change at all it's like okay but that doesn't apply to so many other elements like that they fuck yeah like he's gone like he fucked up for the way to do with the Tesseract is strange even the Mind Stone stuff is gonna be really strange because they took it out of this sector again so age of Ultron can't happen not not as it happened yeah oh my god hold on I need to write this is it all that bad that age of Ultron didn't happen hey look maybe we can alter it it ends up being better oh fuck I don't even know what I put this shit it's like my notes are exploding talking about endgame huh hey he's making a video on it guys right it's got to collect all their references up where's the space stone I need more paper so and also cap doesn't take the cap doesn't take the scepter back in time he just takes the mind stone yeah he's gonna hand that back to what Hydra that doesn't make any sense at all does it yeah I like I picture cappy and like right my little laundry list of places I gotta go people things I gotta fix it is like give stone to Hydra he's like how about I I don't know that I should do that like I feel like the time was better off I just give this to the avengers yeah now I have to do it just see or else the time space continuum will be altered and I was gonna say if you want to make that argument that he can't fix plenty of things like plenty of things are still fucked so you have to let 9-11 happen in all those universes Captain America you have to you have to something one of the deletions I think I missed that one well because he went back in time right um I think there's a meme video about this but it's like on the news and then Peggy's like you knew about this and he's like I can't change these things Peggy I'm not allowed I know about I know about Waco and 9-11 and all that stuff trust me Peggy it's better this way that's my biggest problem with endgame is that cap didn't have to go out like that like oh well I think it's pretty catastrophic not only does that seem to destroy the time travel like that's often you could have assumed that they were going to alternate timelines but cap went back in time and grew up old in the same timeline so like the film doesn't know what the hell it's doing and I don't think Captain America would abandon the avengers I wasn't even by him going back a branch another timeline it wouldn't be able to be in the other the same one yeah well that's if the rules work the way that they should if they but that's the problem so time travel expert over here well I'm looking forward to getting all those I've worked so hard to try to understand this movie but it won't let me understand it are you going to include the Falcon and Winter Soldier stuff about how I guess like a Captain America is just not present well yeah I don't know if you're gonna evolve the I'm assuming you stop at end game you're not like including stuff post yeah I think the problem is because by the time this video is out Loki might be coming out and it seems like Loki is directly addressing this stuff but I don't think that that should matter because this is what the film's explanations are and they can't make sense no matter what Loki says you know how does Loki account for the fact that the Tesseract in the Mind Stone have been destroyed how does Loki account for Cap growing up old in his own timeline I don't I don't visit they're gonna make up new characters and new magic so that he can use his new magic to make the stones back like nowadays it's like vision coming back and stuff like that you just there's nothing's off the table yeah I think that's gonna be one of the comments like towards the end of the video is just you know I feel like Endgame is a clear example of a film which can't allow itself to like it it's a film that's supposed to be the finale to a series which won't be allowed to end and you can see what you can see that in this film we gotta find a way to get Loki back into the picture we gotta find a way to get Gamora back into the picture vision was okay at that time but it didn't take them long to bring him back to so the only person who died and is still dead is Heimdall like yeah and it almost feels as though like they're big enough now that they know they don't have to care anymore like they can just make whatever they want but I guess it's amusing because people they seems like a lot of people think that things are really awesome at the moment I don't get it imagine if Loki shows up with a neck brace on like one of those cones like they put on dogs to stop them from looking their balls or whatever like after Thanos broke his neck yeah it's because they're salty by the way so anyway hello welcome to e-fab 133 we we you know it would have been probably last week if not for other things happening but maybe some rumblings have been made on the internet about this extra credits video that got released just like last time was it like a year ago that they did the other stupid water was that longer let me let me take a look I think they do this like every around every year because they've had several videos that are just like what are you talking about they're masochists it's about two years ago just like we're still here by the way let us make this super stupid video that makes no sense I'm I'm really glad we're going through this because I watched it and I have still no idea what they're trying to say I'm so confused by this video I think impulse to say something stupid and you know they're gonna let out every now and then fun enough I've discussed the clear things that I'll pick a couple of times the different people before the extra credits video even came out they the concepts what they're probably going for I know that they fumble it and it's in the summer for this very video how they thought that they fumble immensely because yet it's another one of those ones where everyone just like that like before we get started hello everybody we got I guess you know regulars being myself rude springy and metal around hello once again but you know vague semi regulars I don't even know what the categories are anymore let's call them quasi regulars gonna call it be lister verbal terrorists and training yeah so from the left John CJG how do you do buddy how you been hey how's it going thanks for having me on hi chat I'm the guy who makes RV in the chief on YouTube yes just so you know shadowy weird guy is we didn't like slight cut height did you find it all weird with the amount of praise it was gathered we just like oh well I well I was like immediately on guard cuz the amount of like build up it was getting before it came out I was like this is gonna be a piece of shit I know and then we watched it and it was like it I will say it had a nicer flow to it but it was still diarrhea you know I mean so a nicer my yeah do I want an easier exit in a harder cleanup or vice versa it's very uncompelling uninteresting like Steppenwolf is just so like his objective to show shallow there's no depth to him his dialogue is so over over expository so is dark side and you just don't care you're not invested in like what these characters want and they're not invested in the new gods war for power in the anti-life so what you're saying is you hate math yeah yeah yes what I first heard him say it was like a 12 year old wrote this some of you guys don't know the anti-life equation actually is right though in the comics the meme repository gave us a quick thing on the past eFap I think he made it make a lot more sense than it does on its own in the Zack Snyder movie well I mean the the actual formula like the literal text formula for what is it by no no are you talking about yeah like again meme repository you said like a bunch of words times by words you know yeah it's loneliness plus alienation plus fear plus despair plus self-worth divided by mark I don't know if it's the artwork I just saw it on the DC with you it's just no he said it can you call it that there's something and we kidnapped Jordan Peterson where does one write down the anti-life equation well you get a note pad out and you get really high up and you write down what you saw that the thing that you eat the piece of paper and you become the anti-life equation um anyone see why about this review of Snyder cut what he first talks about the anti-life equation he's like oh my god it's like life but like the opposite that is so it's like one of the edgiest things possible I think it kind of really is the doc say but buddy stretch I have a question alien emperor named dark side created the anti-life equation wait so I have a question about the plot in regards to that anti-life equation this dark side does he know that what he smashed the earth and the in the lion's form and that was the anti-life equation at that point he does did he know it was because he says the step wolf says where they this is the planet we found the anti-life equation for like all those years ago the planet that to fight us so who put the anti-life equation there I'm really confused is it is it an equation it's a symbol could you it's fucking stupid it's what it is no no see the rd curvy lines are an artistic symbolic interpretation of the death of the universe that or some shit well it's not the death of the universe it's the death of free will which is funny because free will doesn't exist well well it's less the death of free will more the the rise of his controlling of everyone's free will but you can do that already yeah you can do that already well let's put it this way we can worry you're knocking dominoes down one one one and someone goes I can knock them all down for you if you press this button you're like oh yeah I want to press that button fuck yeah I guess the really funny thing is to what end we don't know because dark side isn't a character he's a character that's the problem dark side would do it and they'd be like I have one everyone's like yes you won you did it nice kind of weird there's a mathematical route to control the free will the you know how is it the nightmare vision he's taken over earth which means you'd have the anti-life equation which means isn't a game over at that point no it's not game over because batman and they wear the little magneto helmet and it doesn't affect them it's like oh nice because batman batman was reminded by joker that he's lost people that he's loved yeah in case you didn't know joker is so edgy it cancels out the anti-life equation he's just sitting there in the desert for his entire for the rest of whatever that scene with joker was just as cringe worthy as he ever was and people were like oh my god redeemed oh my god well that's just people turned into clown people when they watched this movie i fucking hate that tweet where they said that that was the best joker batman scene ever and like shut the fuck up like everybody thinks of the interrogation scene the interrogation scene was awesome and it's like why would you yeah why would you ever think him offering a reach around it's somehow better that whole epilogue it's like one why is it there too yeah way too fucking long like if you're gonna have it cut it down yeah oh oh did you like the part where martian hand man hunter was apparently martha and that was irrelevant no that pissed me off i fucking hated that because i was really enjoying the scene right before that with like martha and what's her name lois i was just like oh oh my god are we actually gonna get some proper acting here like is this like final movie gonna be finally compelling after all this tripe and then it ruins it i'm like surprise it's me a martian man hunter well i didn't know that's who it was i didn't know the character i just saw an alien i was like who the fuck is that and i just it just ruined that whole scene because wow i really like those characters it was a nice quiet moment where the camera wasn't fucking moving around well uh well no i think there's a big casting issue there because i don't think amy adams is the right fit for that character but i just mean directing because she's a phenomenal actress when she's doing things well uh yeah fucking when she's allowed lois lane she doesn't do anything in these films unfortunately she gets saved and she gets saved she does get saved she can defy black holes it's pretty awesome um yeah she falls down everything gets sucked in including superman so maybe she's that dense never she's not covered phantom goo that's why everything else around here is okay guys no no she she threw the spear right she threw the spear that she didn't need to throw and had no reason to throw the spear in bad memories superman that's that's important right she made things more difficult for our heroes to save the world um it's funny because in the video i made i i was like do i talk about what i thought was good in the martha uh lois scene and i was like fucking well not really because i can't even speak to what it meant to martha like at all because it's not her wasn't they like why would you do that it's like well because martian manhunt is really cool this is really cool um well it's because they want to set up i i think one of fun really amusing he's like oh some call me the martian manhunt it's like white people know that they're aliens on earth what it's like who's talking about is like other martians other martians call him that yeah well isn't he like the last one or whatever is that i thought he was the last one here man really used to call him that before they died the uh this yeah but some used to call me that well can you just tell me a day and he's like oh john so you're like oh yeah whoever has to make sequels to to that movie would be in trouble but i'm assuming they're not making any at all like that's just not gonna happen no it seems like they want to move on which is the smart thing to do and everybody's saying restore the sniderverse but it's not gonna work been restored you go you wanted now they're making other things yeah also it's shit so no don't restore it restore the abram's face what would the sniderverse be exactly like what else wasn't developed that he was so depressing oh well uh what's super interesting is that lately zack sniders been going around doing interviews talking about what his other justice league movies would have been about and it yeah it's it's like theo said it's the most edgy bullshit you've ever fucking seen like in your entire but i don't even know that this was the original plan really i i think he's just saying these things because he wants people to get hyped up so he can make another dc movie but he's already had three chances like most people are he's failed all three times i mean enough dc deserves him so what do you mean dc deserves him no no dc run so zack snider has become step and wolf bleeding uh dark side for more money so that he could finish his cinematic universe until you could make fifty thousand dollars on your own we will not allow it but dark side i found the anti fun equation the anti color equation just imagine a whole universe with no characters no sense no logical reason and it will be all mine and you will love me oh no and you get to come back back home instead of having to destroy 50 000 more planets i don't know they just throw that out you still got 50 000 more planets to destroy how long is that gonna take like a billion years again i'm wondering he was so evil that they didn't kill him collectin planets um he was so evil they didn't kill him but his his penalty was he had to conquer 50 000 planets like what the fuck did you do yeah that's a lot of worlds that's a lot of okay well wait because a day in the life of step and wolf he arrives at the planet it's all dusty nothing there season these go with three mother boxes starts the unity leaves next planet you might be able to get like a fucking 100 done in a day you don't know that's a lot yeah but he's yeah i guess i'm thinking if you have dark side and decide and spooky grandma and all that sort of thing and you did something so bad that it warranted you having to conquer 50 000 worlds but dark side didn't kill you for what you did like what is what a very specific well like rime and punishment he mentioned that he had set up here killed a whole bunch of people who tried to take the throne as well you know so it's like a big spag it's like he did some good stuff he also did some bad stuff so he didn't have to it was going to be 100 000 planets i guess so yeah that's like community service community service for evil also here with us today is the welcome back you were on the previous extra credits i sure was how does it feel um good i think for now yeah uh you i believe you're a little against the grain you really enjoyed this night okay right oh yeah it's fantastic i'm very enthused what's he doing here well it was uh it was gray and uh um yeah anyway yeah it was great yeah it was oh i hate i fucking hated that twitter part where they are oh but now justice is gray let's watch for ours again we're gonna take what little color we had and get rid of it yeah it's so funny to me because it's just like we already think that they black and white like almost fucking hell i mean stop i don't ever want to see that black or lighter but i figure there's gonna be some really funny screenshots you could take from the black or white vision like goo um and yes of course weekend warrior who uh i currently you adore the Snyder cut hello i didn't adore it but i think it's better than justice league so i i think the perfect justice league movie is a hybrid between the the Snyder cut and the weed and cut when you say perfect i think just as perfect as things would allow yeah i guess that would be the better so four out of ten yeah it's instead of like a six it's become a seven or some question would you cut all the dark side stuff if in your yes yes i just i just make him go with Thanos and then oh step in wolf is dead oh i guess we have to go there i mean come on bro like dark side so fucking dumb in this movie like i think he's the weakest part of the movie even though he's the strongest dc villain he's the weakest shit in this fucking movie like he could teleport right there mauler he could teleport there and the movie and he doesn't do it nah it'll all make sense in future movies why he didn't do that they'll say they'll be like everything he ever wanted to see that fucking planet and there's they look at the teleport machine they can't and then they look they're like oh the teleport machine's not working oh wait is it is it lagging oh my god well i'm gonna move us to singapore regardless there we go um yeah like in a future movie you can have him look at the teleport machine it says fuel though and he looks over to the side of the room is a little canister and he's like i'd have to go and grab it i don't know maybe not that's because you see like his whole army in the background his words are like waiting to deploy yeah they're like oh we're going we go through the teleport we go to pull this anti lasagna equation out of the oven in like two minutes and i'm really looking forward to it so i'm looking around to see if there's anyone who can order to go and get the canister you know there's just nothing but stupid fucking paradigms and like uh yeah there's also some stylistic just we didn't cut out i noticed there's also some more sorry that's not the only thing i cut out some there are some uh i noticed that since this i rewatched the the justice league cut to compare it like the most egregious one is for as so far is the amazon scene where zack snider has to let the ladies hammer the pillar every time and there's a zoom in shot every time when they do it as hipolita goes through each pillar and there's this ostentatious unnecessary scene where the whole pyramid thing tumbles over to the sea and then doesn't work anyway because stephen will just fucking yeets himself out of the ocean right in the justice in the justice league cut he reduced it to like two minutes or a minute because what happened was when hipolita said close the gates he had just one amazon smash the pillar she leaves and we get it that the pyramid is closed and then stephen will just cuts through it punches a hole through the wall yeah cuts through the wall which is which makes it it's so like the economy of it because yeah i know i think yeah i think zack sniders really overindulgent because it's his vision that i think nobody said maybe zack we could tone this down for time purposes and he's like what no but lady but abs on amazon and hammer going smash maybe that's his thought process i don't know but i guess it look cool i but if you do it every fucking time i'm like bro we get it like okay okay we get it bro it's it's heroic right okay we got it like the slo-mo going up the stairs with the epic music that's my favorite part of the movie oh yeah that was that was really great it would have used to going upstairs music for aquaman when he went into the the going upstairs now the going up the stairs music i like it as well because you know you could have both dimensions running side by side with joe sweden sitting in the editor's room so is zack and like joe sees the stairs thing and he like every rational human being in existence goes we don't need that not yeah we really don't and i love it if the soundtrack was actually on that vision that he saw he was like why is this music what's happening and then he was like yeah we'll just cut to when they when they come up but then zack was like he cut this what the how do we how do we know how they got here oh but i'll give i'll give zack snider this uh the part where choose your words no wait wait wait the part where after they revived superman and the box was just like oops we forgot about the box in the justice league cut right they do that in the snider cut no but in the snider cut at least we get the pretense of a heroic moment with cyborg's dad that that makes more sense than just oh we we can i think it makes less sense it adds more mistakes hmm well also i didn't just bring it to the justice league yeah so not only now do they have to all forget about it they also have him deciding to take it away from them instead of getting it to them oh but the reason was that he superheated it so that they could find it yeah that was afterwards yeah but think about that he's trying to make it so that they can get it instead of giving it to them just giving it okay that's fair yeah okay yeah we're just hiding it just before step in we'll find it yeah of course whether or not he goes and takes it uh none of them seem to want to go and look for it still they're all just like yeah the box fight also everyone that sees the what they should see the thing crashing onto the fucking car no one's even looking at that thing yeah the only one even cares like oh something crashed into this coward broke it oh that's the thing i stole from this lab i'm gonna bring this back into the lab i guess i think sack snider just wanted to remind everybody that regular fire drills are an important part of occupational safety standards that have to be held regularly oh that that movie had to be cut down without a doubt whether i mean i i like long movies i got no problem with long movies but like there's way too many stretches of time where like there's no new information being delivered it's just like like gratuitous like sweeping CGI shots and people looking mournful and it's like i think yeah we gotta move on to the next beat yeah i think that's the good word for it gratuitous because it's yeah it's his vision and he's got like oh i'm just gonna i'm just gonna sack snider this whole shit like just no one told zack when he was a kid that no one gives a fuck what your dream is like when you're telling people about that dream you had no one fucking cares except for you but they humored him and they never said that stopped telling people because we don't care i get a hundred that's how you get this dollars of hubering but you're saying the fish cult saying it wasn't perfect oh yeah it's not mothers tried it jack up your mother's oh but i needed to see the lady sniff his sweater oh yeah that was hilarious i cannot wait for people to see how we react to that yeah it's so perfect no loss it's gonna be a gem um vaguely connected to this by the way uh so share this on the discord 9 11 i've not seen it yet um i've not seen 9 11 yet but uh i don't think you want to see it you know our good friend philmento he's uh popping out videos a lot and i just i saw this and i'm curious for you guys just to see the title and the image and be like what how does i think that being better than batman versus superman it's not really that if a metric i'm just saying i feel like eating superman is a really bad idea why out of your chest we don't there's so much to this right i don't know where to begin so it's like fistful they're both terrible for what i understand like i've heard the god of this kong the only thing that you might like in it is a bit of the monster fighting but it's mostly garbage um which is fine you know like like for godzilla fans i guess or kong fans which want to see some battles but like yeah as as structural stories go i have heard so many funny things like in terms of that movie i look forward to us checking it out i can leave i can't wait uh being better than batman versus superman as we can already just said that's not a difficult feat certainly comparing godzilla versus kong to batman versus superman like i don't even know where like i understand you can compare anything to a degree but like jesus christ the fighting and the the nature of the battle shouldn't even be remotely similar i think i see i think i'm predicting his thing as to why it's better than bbs there's this specific thing that happens in godzilla versus kong that sort of happens in bbs near the end and maybe that's what he's a woman throws a spear into a pool randomly yeah exactly that i don't know this is the only thing that could kill kong it's the banana spear you know the spoilers or no so uh well probably no i don't know i don't want spoilers yeah i don't yeah i'm not going to spoil it then if that's the case um yeah we want to experience this raw uncensored and uncut those of us who say he's called it film perfection too film perfection out it's big monkey something big lizard it's like movie junk food right he just did and like oh that was fun because that's entertainingly enough fine that was fun i don't know i i just if we watch godzilla vs kong at some point i would like to see this video i i'm very curious about just how the hell he's got about doing it i'm ready as someone who saw the movie i quite liked it i didn't well good um i i thought that just the monster stuff though the monster fights are great the all the human stuff is pure dog shit it's always dog shit i get it makes you wonder why they keep doing it yeah or make it good how about that oh you will last though you will last stage when you learn the reason why the human characters are in that movie like the build-up to oh my god it's it's like wow that's their whole justification for their presence in the movie maybe you'll be amazed lucky we were monkey it's because zgi is expensive and we have to fill up the other yeah percent of we can't have i feel like it would be really cool to just have a movie that is all godzilla and kong just have it be like a hundred percent CGI and just follow them on their own little misadventures if you pay attention to your body cop movie where it's like godzilla and kong are butting heads over how to stop the bad guys like you know of course they're literally cutting heads because you know they can't talk i feel like godzilla would be the uh no godzilla would be the straight man king kong would be the loose canon who gets results i don't know i feel like um yeah i like i feel like in the gorilla we should play like the smart the smart stoic character like winston in overwatch maybe but kong is way more rage related no i think uh i think i like the idea well i feel like godzilla like in the first movie he looks like he's so tired of this shit yeah he's a super fucking old and he's he's like kong you gotta chill out i remember being like you okay i remember what i do like the idea of mothra being the police chief now i know mothra's a chick but i guess you can still make a work right of like you know the mayor's gonna have my ass you destroyed like the empire state building it's like you know i gotta add something to cheap uh for the mayor i'm the chief of police i don't have to activate property damage through the roof kong in my office now my phone's been going off the ring are all in mourning i got the mayor and i got the union i'll have your ass all right you destroyed so many buildings who are you superman yeah again i i really want james gunn to have a reference to superman in their film and like the suicide squad are aware that he does more damage than they ever could like they'd be like man imagine being that effective or imagine they're a little bit of the fact that they're in jail but he isn't despite like the incredible damage he's like you're in the universe do it do it make fun of that i don't know if you're finding here um though of course we are here today to watch a video um i don't know if we should probably discuss it before the video starts a little bit just the title right because it's interesting it's a little bit of you know called evil rices and bad oh yeah go ahead yeah evil races are bad game design bio essentialism and world building so this thing that happens here that's a bit of a problem is what does evil mean i suppose it depends on context it can be based on pov but typically um we yeah because generally evil is just male level normally when people you 99 of the time when people use evil they just mean like bad bad it's the the extra step up from bad just take whatever bad is to that person and it's the next step above um and in this it'll probably apply to how you have um their perception of evil by either the protagonist or the the main force or the quote unquote good guys and it's just that's you know they're good and so the bad things other people do those are evil i mean i would probably go as far as saying we use it very colloquially that nobody thought like to a super in-depth degree we usually just save it for when someone does something that we just consider super fucking wrong like all consistently wrong let's go that is evil and if someone said there's no such thing as evil i'd be like i mean and then we're like yeah go away the adults are talking so like i get yeah he's like yeah go away it's not an easy thing to define or evil and i wonder if like i'm not even sure that i would necessarily describe in that way i might do it so i wonder the difference between um an entity that just does what it does versus an entity that is like mind controlled versus an entity that is aware of what is bad and does bad because it enjoys it it's like of those three i assume we all agree that the latter is the most evil um yeah the the more agency something has i guess the more you could say that it's evil because it's not doing it just because it has to or doesn't have a choice because it really wants it so that makes it worse yeah like if you see a lion slowly tearing off each finger of like i don't know an ape as it's trying to crawl away or something we were all just like she's priced the hell and the lion's just doing what the lion does it has no concept of like torture um we wouldn't i don't think any of us describe that as evil i'm assuming i'm just trying to set some sort of scale animal i don't know the animals can be evil because well that's why i went for an extreme example like um yeah even the most extreme it doesn't matter if the lion considers itself evil or not they don't really have moral agency you have to know what evil is to like to to do it right i don't know yeah well i guess uh you have the i guess the tricky examples of like what what if you have like uh somebody who i don't know what what if you have somebody who's like you know the archetypal serial killer who might not even appreciate that what they're doing is bad because they don't really have the same perception of the value of human life as other people do but that's where i was going to say it gets complicated if somebody in a storyline is like incredible like like they just fucking thoroughly enjoy causing pain and that they think it's a funny exercise and that they don't even understand that there's people out there who like there's like it's a different point of view that you don't like it i was trying to think maybe if dexter's a valid one he's like got a significant desire to kill like to end lives and so he tries to direct it into uh doing it to people who if he was to kill them the world improves whatever um evil stuff get a little bit complicated like is the desire to do these things evil or is it then what you do as an action from beyond your uh your desires uh uh so as someone just said evil has intent all of these questions extra credits is not prepared to answer or get into this is the thing i'm willing to but i think it's a it's a little cloudy because we use the word yeah things no i think i think in the sense of extra credits it's just evil it's just we all understood that evil is just very bad yeah i think we have more nuance in the intro than anything in extra credits already so there's that also people want to try and appear nuanced still swastika or the the game is right now yeah also what the fuck is bio essentialism because they just that means they even uh proper proper so stuff that's like tied to you biologically as in like there's nothing things that come out about you that happen because of your biology so relating to like your sexuality or or intelligence um gotta be careful with arguments like that it can lead you down very spooky roads um but like yeah nobody bio essentialism spooky in the world of political discussions because uh it can it can get you saying stuff that sounds really really really evil uh and you don't even really need to have much of it in the way that they discuss it because pretty much all of this is some hypothetical fictional world it doesn't even really matter if you know much about it it's the way that they use it and the way they want to try and drag it into this we find whatever you know in your brain right now it's enough we're gonna be critical of them optically reta reta rhetorically uh some other thing like thing is this concept eight minutes good luck yeah especially what is extra credits but uh also for for what it's worth why is it bad game design yeah i was about to actually exactly well yeah because this is world design not game the distinction could be had because yeah exactly from what uh thesis of this whole video squad i started watching um j long bones video but i only got a minute in because i realized like i probably should go in blind uh per se and some approach gonna watch it after this one thing she said that i thought was pretty apt is that uh the standard approach to this because i've heard this argument before is evil races are basically just bad because racist um and and like they they they have a bad allegory being that it'll make people go hmm maybe there's such thing as evil races in real life looks at black person that's that's the concern that apparently a lot of people have which is absurd and we can get into that but uh they've said aha we're not saying that we're saying it's bad game design we can argue why and then their argument is the thing i just said so as j long points out it's just a it's a loophole that's all this video is uh but it is it's why why are we because fantasy races aren't races they're like different species if we're gonna be like really specific yeah they're not it's not the term races um yeah race is kind of like a misnomer an orc and a human are not the same they are yeah they're different races than humans in a way that's totally separate from the way that you know a white person in an asian are different races it's totally different uses just of the word it's it's just that the differences between the human races are like negligible whereas the differences between yeah an orc and a human being a pretty substantial yeah the differences between uh like a black person who's male and a black person who's female is bigger than the difference between a white male and a black male um cool so everyone good to stop oh wait i also have one more comment before we start it's just that i think you could have like uh a quote unquote evil race that is complicated it's just not what my problem with extra credit toll stands is that it's like they're saying universally you can't have an rpg with evil races just for xp i think that's which is it depends on what adventure you want what what people want to experience right they kind of miss the point of what like a role playing like a generally this will be a lot of the focus on this will be tabletop role playing games yeah yeah um in which i would say the primary purpose of that is to have fun if people aren't having fun then that game is that you failed because it is ultimately a game yeah um but the way they go ahead no it's like if if it's like vampire the masquerade table you could have that argument like maybe not all evil races they could have nuance or something like that but but to even say that they should there should be some evil races that are good or depicted to be good is their argument right am i am i am i getting that remember that in a tabletop role playing game setting in a dungeons and dragons pathfinder game whatever it may be they often as people i've noticed often do um despite even like dms and stuff they are the ultimate prescriptive god of that universe and everything happens according to that person's will and they sort of forget that so the idea that a race could be evil or couldn't be evil it leaves out the aspect of it if the dms says that a race is evil they are it's entirely that's how it is yeah that you that's that's an aspect of the universe now it's not like the language that they'll use in this video is like your painting orcs with a broad brush is like well no they there there's no painting involved the orcs are evil intrinsically to what the orc is an orc and evil are inseparable you can't take the evil out of an orc it's treating it as though every single living humanoid is as diverse and complicated as human beings when it's like well no i've said they're not it's like okay but that's not very complicated and interesting it's like oh well yeah that's that's what it is it'll be a section of the video that gets into that yeah because also someone made this i can see garfield in dockside having a good like oh shout out sequent and reviews garfield time baby it's it's him activate garfield time it recharges the more lasagna you increases chew speed by 30 you could honestly make that video where you like extra credit it says hidden nazi uh sort of ideas and stuff i just feel like oh my god crypto nazi fascination what's what's funny too is that that's because i'm i'm making a video response to this because it will be fun and there's a lot of things to talk about and when i've watched the video i was like wait is it oh my god it's the first thing you see i think it's i think it's oh no it's so clear at this point uh rags make sure you do the thing where they said so i believe you're a nazi and they're very i think that'll be a good addition to that shit oh good that part's already done it's already good job good job this course on the internet during 2019 and i can't show that on screen but i can play the audio oh yeah that was those were fun times sorry also her legs make a swastika do you think they just do every every so often just so that people remember they exist like hey let's piss off the internet again so no they're trying to actually make everyone nazi's low key so that they can go back years later and say see we were right we were right help me out here so like extra credits the whole point of this channel is they're trying to teach you how to make video games right that's like um yeah something like general i guess general writing advice yeah general writing advice and game design well i guess i guess what i'm saying is it's game design more so than like writing advice right i think that's um i guess the videos here about like about what the core gameplay loop is and stuff like user generated content yeah so that's that's what they do i guess my question i feel man feels weird because i'm not sure like whether or not if you're giving people advice on how to make something that you should be giving recommendations on what the content of that of that uh that game is if you know what i mean well like writing advice i would say don't write about these subjects or don't don't uh explore these themes or these topics especially if the argument is going to be that the allegory is a bit dangerous rather than you're doing something that's like broken just from the gecko which is what they i think want to dress this up as but really it's more of a we're worried about what the messaging might look like it's bad because my personal sensibilities not because it's actually bad that's fair if they want to explore that i guess i'm not sure how i feel about trying to pretend like there is an idea that's not worth exploring because some people might not respond to it very well i feel like you i feel like you lose a lot of important stories if if we're just if that's how it works it in it they they often don't this is where um mark brown consistently absolutely fails is that when you want to teach people something one of the best ways to teach them especially because if it's that if it's a thing that the teach e is going to be doing is that you need to show good examples and explain why they're good and bad examples and explain why they're bad don't just say this is a good example this is a bad example people need to know why in that example is you're you're talking in these kinds of instances is developer oriented you're you're trying to you know help further the craft in that sense yeah if we say lord the rings good snider cup bad therefore long is okay sometimes you're like yeah people will get confused as to what they're supposed to copy yeah and then they start copying bullshit i haven't followed extra credits for a long time but i've i've known about them for a long time but whenever i used to watch videos and i always found them really irritating like it was always that a guy that used to do the voiceover he had us like a sped up voice yes in every video it was yeah hey i'm here to talk to you about video games i'm sick yeah for you dude it was fucking oh i was infuriating to listen to them because that fucking voice here here's if you want to make here let's do an extra credits but for youtube videos don't do that ever yeah like i'm trying to play an annoying piece of shit character even even when you're like you're presenting an annoying character that's another thing i find you don't have to make your annoying character like hard to listen to actually annoying you can find ways around it yeah like don't have them be actually truly annoying have them be annoying in the universe that you're presenting a man and then of course don't have your main character be an annoying character that's probably not wise you're like yeah and throw in a few jokes too like fuck if you're gonna be like sound pretentious and shit and condescending about like game the game theory and it's like fuck at least if there was something funny to grasp on to but there's just no value in it for me so i gave up on extra credits a long time i'll take it a bit more seriously on a craft level and i actually dig into what you're talking about with some substance yeah go one of two ways be really thorough or be like self-deprecating and funny you know yeah well yeah all kinds of ways to be funny um i'm buried up a bit as well you know what you just gotta absorb a lot of comedy content and see what you can figure out from the different things you start to spot as patterns because humans are good at that like hey that thing and that thing they're the same yeah there's a spoon in the sky and i've seen people say already it's like oh how how far extra credits have fallen and then there's other people who like know they were always trash so it's just like i don't know i think it's because they create like two entirely different versions of content because i know they do a bunch of history series which is totally different from i think all of their video game and writing related stuff presumably like this one doesn't have that many views considering how big this is a two and a half million sub channel and i think this video is like 150 000 views or something like that so we had because of how controversial it is too yeah the the nazi one blew up that thing's about a million and a half views and this one is it's not as crazy as the nazi one this is the low-key sequel to it yeah but it's not as bad i guess and it's not nearly at the view count oh my god 1.3 million jeez christ oh but it has 308k dislikes rex it's one of the dislikes things on the internet i think all right then let us begin if you paid attention to the game's discourse on the internet during 2019 and 2020 you might have noticed a reoccurring argument about some species from fantasy media specifically orcs all right so i did yeah so a lot of people didn't because normal people aren't fucking weird freaky progressives like these people so there is there is a thing with dnd where they want to change up terminology and they want to change up kind of how races and stuff are described and presented and every once in a while on twitter someone will bitch about how oh orcs are described as bad or they have a certain temper because so a lot of progressive types you know jw types they have difficulty distinguishing between fiction and reality and when they hear about fictional races that aren't real and fictional universes that aren't real they can't help but connect that to real things that could be similar to it so the idea that races could be different in a fictional setting as far as like goblins and hobbits and halflings and tieflings and all that stuff that's like bad to them there there's something wrong with that there's a racist component an actual racist component to that and orcs are generally the center of the discussion because everyone knows what an orc is they're big and green and they hit things and oh they're evil and so they're sort of like the poster child for this whole we have to clean up how we talk about race in these fantasy settings and that got a big track it happened with vampire the masquerade there's this big progressive push in that game as well like when i was doing the vampire game with arch and sargon and dev and oozaloo and like the owners of the company even though it was one of the biggest games on the internet for that game the company refused to like tweet our game out and stuff like that we're pretty much we're basically disavowed by the company who made it think they're called like world of darkness or something and they have these big don't be a fascist uh warnings in front of the player guides so it's just yeah yeah so it's just one of these sjw's ruin everything they fucking touch don't let them in gate keep the shit out of the things that you love because they're going to come and they're going to ruin it i need help so there's a you get the book like the game guide and then you open page one and they're like hey guys let's talk about national social let me you know what i still have a copy i have a copy of the rule book let me get it so the so the publisher named world of darkness is afraid of their player base delving into dark topics or evil i think world of darkness is one of the games i will that's that's kind of our here let me post it for you i have the rule book for vampire the masquerade here we go mature content warning for the past several decades vampire the masquerade has addressed the darkness in the real world through horror stories it has talked about aids capitalist exploitation sexual predation the resurgence of far-right political extremism religious fanaticism state and private surveillance and many other issues this version of the game does not shy away from any of the above and any of the above and we believe exploration of subjects like these is as valid and role-playing games as it is another media including a problematic subject in a storytelling game is not the same as glorifying it and if you take the chance to explore it critically it can be the exact opposite so you see why us in our game we played as a bunch of nazis vampire's right and so that we weren't being too critical of the nazis because he has to be very clear v five which i assume is like the fifth edition of these rules includes in-world references and expressions of the following sexual violence political extremism physical violence and gore mind control torture abuse imprisonment and kidnapping racism sexism and homophobia tame a few it's a game about monsters why are you telling me this you might be saying it's like a trigger warning isn't it yeah yeah this is this is a trigger warning for a game where you play as a vampire who sucks people's blood out of them yeah someone at your table is not familiar with this game someone at your table has dealt with some of these issues in real life someone at your table wants to know that you read this warning and know you will be considerate to them as players putting their character through the rate what you know that the end thing oh wait okay sorry reg which is like sorry like i get it this is one of those like if there's someone at your table who was raped and they don't want to get your content wanting wouldn't she just know that this yeah you would think that and it should be on the person who like hey you know like in when i was young i had this traumatic experience like in the game it's like i just you know my i just it brings a really bad memories could you could you not have that in your game and that's between you and the dm and you could choose to play with him and i don't know right okay i see in the appendix you will find concrete techniques on how to handle different subjects in your game and what an appendix it is by the way uh in your game in a manner that is respectful to your players and their experiences calibrate beforehand which techniques your group wants to use people have different needs and not every method works for every person this is a game about monsters but it's only a game don't use it as an excuse to be a monster yourself god that's really weird that's really really hate things like this i see a fair amount in tabletop RPGs but like all of things like this and even just conversations people will have online about games they've had seems to take place under the pretense that the dm and their players just don't talk to each other like you just randomly meet and then you set a date like a week from then and then you will play then and no one will speak to each other before that point there's a little bit of a slightly different point but i still find it annoys me it always has i know i've mentioned this one you've had before but you know when they do racism sexism homophobia which is like so bigotry why don't you just say that why do you have to make sure you name all of the individual ones of these are the ones you've missed better be careful and that sounds like a nitpick but it kind of is i think this this is all unnecessary you just put a big letter r and it's like yeah adult things can happen so if you're not able to understand that's why the system wasn't vented right you can't just it's adult content you can't just use an umbrella term that encapsulates everything because that makes it seems too small impersonal you got to pad it out with all the examples of the thing because of course i just want to take all these facets are attacking you from every direction there's another 13 of these you have to mention otherwise people don't feel included that you didn't put their trauma in here this is all in character of course at the time of writing the real world is currently inundated with far right fascist ideologies being given free reign by well meaning people who want to preserve civility if you see people at your table opening up with alt right talking points we encourage you to shut that shit down oh my god i'm uncomfortable with the storyline in game because what's happening out of game use one of the techniques listed here you are not obligated to tolerate fascist in game or out of game this game is a way to tell stories about understanding perhaps fixing some of the darkness in our world use that to your advantage i don't even how about you don't be fucking tell me how i play my story also am i allowed to have a fascist villain or no so here's the thing problematic there's gets my fucking jogging you know the best part about all of this is fascists and they wouldn't tweet us out they basically disavowed our game we we you weren't allowed to play it there there you go it was definitely a really great video on this by the way if you're not subscribed to short fat ataka you should be but the they the idea well here let me put this into perspective there are all of the references to fascism are here and they just just ooze about how terrible it is and how there's fascists everywhere and i'm a god nazis and you can't even at a fictional setting it you know because these people have no imagination and they're fucking horrible unfun people um there's only one usage of the word communism in this rulebook and it is basically devoid of context in the sense of these um uh vampires and things like that they couldn't you know capitalism was a boon to vampires and stuff like that but so like yeah they don't say anything bad about communism but they just fucking gush because they your fascism was the big new word everything's a fascist have they got any people whatever that is you got warnings for radical centrism well that's just i'm not sure why i don't i don't i don't i'm not i find it confusing because like i'm not when i read this i'm like so what is the game what does the game suggest like i think they even have it here like what if somebody wants to put these these parts in a story to like explore the topic it's like how how why i'm not sure that it makes sense for the game if you telling you what you what you ought to do or yeah when you're trying to it's saying this is the kind of content you have to have if you have talk if you talk about like fascism in your game then you are basically you have to because if you don't you're immoral and you in they ought to say that you shouldn't play the game you can't have sympathetic fascists in the game you can't have you can't have fun in a fantasy setting and be the nazis with the understanding that they're bad but it's a video game so that's the big the big thing with fantasy right like so if your friend is like i'm gonna become a crazy dick i've literally been playing evil geniuses too do you know what you do in that game you're an evil genius you're an evil genius who one of the side missions is you get money and rewards for this is to kill your teammates in front of other teammates it's like the classic trope you literally execute them your team go oh my god like and you know fear increases or respect or whatever you get money for it but if someone was like you need to call out fascist behavior when you see it i feel like i mean it's not real you fucking idiots when people are playing grand theft orders and i say you need to call out bank heist behavior when you see it the best part about all of this to me is it's completely wasted ink because you can't stop people i'm in a vtm game uh i play with some friends and one of my friends he's playing a nazi you can't stop them well according to this you should call that out to you they need that um you remember the gilette ad they need someone in a d&d group to be like i want to be a nazi and then someone puts the hand on their shoulder and goes bro nazi's a bad okay you shouldn't choose to play as a nazi and and this all for this is all under the assumption that we're playing as vampires but nazi that's a step too far that's right it's pretty chill they're evil but vampires are okay you have to suck blood out of things to survive and you're part of this underground horrific terrible evil cult of ageless vampire essentially litches and you're pulling the strings on humanity and you view them as literal lesser creatures but just don't be a nazi that would be evil that's too far what if you're playing it straight is like a piss take you know i mean like well you have there's so much to it i can't stop you also like the worrying logic as well of like you got to call out fascist behaviors like who's deciding which things are fascist which aren't by the way it's a fun little box that gets all kinds of things thrown in and thrown out it's like this whole thing in all kinds of media you're sort of i don't want to create a bad guy like a racist we talked about this in the uh the the boy is season two one it's like oh she's like incredibly racist but she doesn't say any slurs in the whole series she kills everyone it's like what because our sensibility is so fucked right now we could watch someone have their hands broken strangled to death but we can't say the end we can't say slurs because like it's like everywhere it's like oh you want to do like a bigger you can't tell slurs like why not like well that would be fascist that would be bad why is it okay if i kill those people on screen but don't call them a bad name it's like yeah you could show planets being destroyed but don't say the n word you just hear them shouting it as the planet gets destroyed echoes around space do you guys see that that meme uh this this girl comes home and she sees her boyfriend playing this vr game and she films him and she's like bashing this avatar's head against the wall just over and over to smash his brains out it's just covered in blood and like there's text on the meme that says like oh my god i dated a psychopath and it's just like you can't control how people are gonna play your game right some people are totally isn't yeah people just distinguish just to see if they can break the game you know a lot of the times people just want to live out crazy fantasies and do crazy shit that isn't real because they recognize it isn't real and they're doing it because they know it isn't real yeah right like healthy people can distinguish between fantasy and reality in a way that these people just can't they have to tie it all together it has to be a weapon that they could use in some manner it's just another thing that they can infect and ruin yeah an alternative tier that we've kind of covered as well it's just the comedic one where a similar meme to the one you just mentioned is like a guy who's playing vr uh the uh what's it called the um the one where you play songs and you hit blocks and stuff beat table yeah beat table yeah so he's he's uh kneeling down and just sweeping over and over again and then it's like oh let me reset and it plays and it's just the fucking opening of the seat of revenge of the sith where it says master skywalker there's too many of us yeah um you're laughing at dead yeah so it was like that's fascist yeah yeah something yeah it's like oh my god uh but you know um the funny part about this i think is that they might be a level of like they don't even believe in it but they have to say it uh to make sure they don't get slapped by everything else everyone's getting slapped by there's plenty of people yeah who are do feel trapped in these places and he's gotta go along with it i guess what i'm finding is that for people like a lot a lot of people like the empire like as a as a faction in star wars like i remember one of the big complaints about battlefront 2 was that people felt like they were lied to that they were going to get an empire pov story and they didn't get it it's like yeah you were in the empire for like a mission and then you just completely swap sides yeah but i i guess what i'm getting to is that a lot of people like to just like play as the bad guys sometimes um yeah it's fun and of course it's totally fine because people can differentiate between like reality and fantasy people can be like well yeah i know these are the bad guys but like yeah it's fun so these people are communists and communists are people i wanted to highlight um uh someone in chat said it's like space jam 2's trailer where uh oh well the film i guess in total they've uh well they've done for lola and then i think they've removed pavel apu now right like he's just gone yeah i think so um so those things happen but clockwork orange is referenced in there like have you fucking seen that movie guys like it's not exactly uh yeah it's got a better clockwork orange is a better moral message than peppy lapio okay well yeah yeah i think i think we all said we were talking about censoring content so well the the positive message in that movie is behind its cynicism i think right oh well so it is a very dark it's just funny to get rid of uh this character who is is like super forward with women and often gets pushed back compared to a clockwork orange which is vastly associated with like brainwashing and rape you're just like hmm right very fearful thing and i don't know like hey look clockwork orange how cool that's just that's just an example of how like this shit's going on at the same time as trying to resurrect childhood memories for money is going on at the same time i say childhood memories of clockwork orange you know what i mean nostalgia i guess do you think they'll remake clockwork orange like i hope that probably not yeah i would eat that one alone to pick a lot of that stuff yeah i don't think they'd be able to depict a lot of this stuff in there i also feel though that's one that's one aggressively acceptable even they would they'd be like remaking 2001 a space Odyssey but what the fuck are you doing don't remake it you just leave it alone but then again i would probably want to say the same for a new hope and they'll probably remake a new hope eventually probably i think anything is on the table anything that was well the loves they're coming for it i mean look at what has been kicked off with all these live action disney remakes there's so much money the ultraviolet is okay but pepe is too far no they're going back just censoring everything in in post it's happening with uh wwe right now they have like a huge new contract with peacock is the station i think and they run their their network through the peacock network now in the us and people is like oh we gotta review all your content which is 17 000 hours of content and gonna uh cut out whatever is the controversial these days here's a real here's a real scary idea what happens when they create an ai that it's their sole job is to go through old content and tweak it and make changes to it and get rid of the stuff that the computer itself decides is not and it's cannot be included it's everywhere too the game grumps episodes get deleted because uh oh no they said they say game awards while they're gaming which should be totally okay because that is the context in which gamer words are at home but oh well um yeah i figure it only gets worse the time goes on going away tick by tick lots of things get wiped out which is we're all this left guys we'll say all the gamer words yeah flangas yeah flangas the internet needs a renaissance also fucking like nine people added me they did remake a new hope it was called the force awaken you know what i mean thank you thank you thank you i mean they will call it star was a new hope it'll cast all new characters it'll have luke being really shit like that'll be the laia will be the best she'll be fucking the most insane amazing character that ever lived she'll be the jedi and han won't do any womanizing whatsoever captain marvel of star wars han will be really clean he'll be like it is good that i am a hero i will help people even though my my past is murky no romantic interest and if there is a romantic interest it will absolutely be started by the woman who makes the first step well it'll be it'll be nice and ready for family consumption right um anyway there was a video uh let us let us check it out i suppose yeah so what what is our commentary for orcs what what's what's all so orcs orcs revelations be exterminated on site the problem is yeah i'm so what i'm what what what what fiction we're going with first right that's going to be the problem is i think the only one that we're all going to be very familiar with is going to be lord the rings because uh yeah yeah i think all of us are different and the allegory they're making with lord of the rings is well yeah that's the conversation they actually for lord of the rings which i got sent all kinds of articles but most human beings don't know about this which is orcs are bad because they seem to be sentient also they're evil as a whole and they're always like wiped out by the good guys meaning allegorically you could say there are species in the world the races that are evil from the get-go and you shouldn't be portraying that because that's wrong the thing for me is that i'm not sure i quite understand exactly oh god gracious middle you started talking about races in the german and started to block his communications what you sound like a bum miracles in your microphone does this stop talking about orcs mally some poopy i hope he's okay uh i guess the infection spread from rags to bell because uh who's dexed i suppose i'm free yeah uh all i was gonna say is the lord the rings doesn't go too in-depth with what i'm not including the books right now of course um exactly what they are they are creatures that seem to be under the will of saaron which is how i kind of interpreted it that they have their own sort of specific individual sort of characteristics as in some are more aggressive some are less some are more intelligent some are less some are more uh invested in certain things than others the urukai that saruman makes they're like 100 on saruman's team while the orcs seem to just be like we're evil but um we're willing to eat the hobbits you know i'm gonna be evil my way yeah but it always came across to me like i guess i took this for granted a little bit um i thought that sarun had like a general spell over them like a like a sort of they are essentially going to be doing his bidding no matter what because they're a lower life form they're just like something that or lower life form i mean i didn't you know i suppose i should define what lower me i guess just lower functionality i don't even know like trolls though um trolls are supposed to be like wild and and whatever but like sarun's influence can make them join his army sort of thing that's that's what i got from the movies uh the the urukai is supposed to be like orcs corrupted elves with more lore to back them up i think so i mean like that and then when you get into did weren't weren't they elves that lived in like a on forthright or like you know uh sinful way and their punishment or something it's like they get resurrected as these like hobbit fodder so they're like what the mormons used to think black people were i don't know um the if this is the thing without all these specifics you can't really make a judgment on whether or not it makes sense um and that it could exist this way uh the thing that i think is trying to get pointed out is the they are sentient life that are always going to choose to do evil things in which case they're not really that sentient at that point if they're they're more like drones they're always going to do bad stuff but they but they always know what the bad stuff isn't do it anyway or do they not like this is the problem i don't really know enough about orcs to be able to even draw these allegories out because i don't really know what they are as creatures in the movie but they they're the bad guys and i would actually argue there's not really many circumstances in lord of the rings where the bad guys like capture and execute them because they're evil quote-unquote it's more so they're attacking them and they defend themselves from them which in that case it doesn't really matter if they're good or bad just go you're going to fight back hi metal i'm so flimpy now i don't know what happened that's like a little muffin everyone got upset i don't know what happened orking orcs were bred from elves by morgoth they were literally made as a foil to valour elves and men they are basically anti-humanity um the anti-human equation yeah the the thing about that is just the is a curiosity in terms of mechanics how they work because um there's a lot of entities i think across fiction that are um like daleks is kind of where i probably go first they're like creatures that are genetically modified to desire purity and all that's pure is a dalek so they kill everything that isn't daleks and if someone was like that's evil so they're all evil it's like um sure but like they're all they were made that way and in a fiction where you can create species like that is this a problem i don't know right yeah you can pity something for being evil again and it doesn't have a choice in the matter but you know it is what it is one of the things i think is key with this is that in fiction it's okay to have a character or group of characters be a one-dimensional representation of just a simple idea or thing in this case like evil like sometimes it's in fiction it's okay to have the good guys and the bad guys very clear cut so you can more effectively make a central point clear you know whatever the theme is of your story it depends what you're trying to do right like what kind of game are you making what kind of story are you telling what's the theme of it and my fans kind of make fun of me sometimes because whenever i say theme it's like they make fun of me like it's some kind of meme word it's like it is a serious thing okay it actually it's important themes are like orcs ladies and jellybeans it's an important thing i want to anyway so go ahead sorry no worries it's in that i think any kind of racial allegory in lord of the rings specifically is immediately defeated because the stronger reading and the one that's more supported is that they're an allegory regarding industrialization and you know the future because the they're they're very industrialized mechanized we get all kinds of scenes between them burning forests in huge pits building you know weapon after weapon that kind of thing so it's they're much less a representation in any racial sense and they're more a representation in you know that kind of sense of the loss of a roman yeah a social sense of loss of the romantic ideal of you know the past i thought you were going down a different route i thought you were going to talk about how the much stronger reading of the lord of the rings is that we need to cooperate with other races will that and that generally our bigotry against other races is shown to be a bad thing in the books and this is where the problem of allegory comes in because someone will go see dwarves and men and elves wizards and hobbits are all representative of you know white black asian everything you can come up with coming together to feed an evil but then someone else goes well then why not include the orcs you say black people can't be a part of uniting and then you're like well yeah this is the thing you're like where why did we decide that orcs are black people holy fuck why can't orcs represent the struggles in life like why do they have to be black people they're it's it's the progressive mask once again slipping where they have to see race and everything and they have this victimization complex and they have to find some way to do it that's just how that's how they think it's it's the uh front me from using it indirectly but uh isn't it's like the horseshoe thing we in by going one direction so far you ended up back where you were trying to fight i know yeah close to yes the idea that the further you go to the extreme you end up being basically the same as your enemies there's that video right where it's like the racist and the progressive of the same person or whatever they keep agreeing with each other's ideas it's uh like like uh black people need to be taken away from like society because you know without specific reasons and so on it's like yeah there should be places where only black people are allowed to go and they're like oh my god that's a great idea i go we're gonna give them their own bathrooms and their own drinking fountains it'll be great um yeah so i think that's the we pretty much address probably the core of the video but now we will listen to them uh break it down so that we will we will stop misunderstanding because this is going to be the video to really get it across unless uh was there anything else anyone want to say oh yeah they have thanks though they have a word for it like i remember this thread on twitter where she used black coded orcs are black coded i'm like what the fuck does that mean what does that mean no i mean i think that one is newish uh coded like not newish in terms of a way that can get used to mean so but it's newer in like literally in a literary analysis for like modern sort of dare dare i say colloquial video essay discussions um finally the reason this has come up before is i've heard efap has been coded as uh like like like my videos and what we do on efap is very like anti black and women coded what that's what it was described as how could you mallard well it's the thing i was just like i trusted yo but like it fuck that word because all it means is i think that's what they're doing and if i say it this way it sounds a lot more smart so that fucking hell the fuck well like i don't understand the world that we live in anymore it's as far as i like because it's relatively new to me as well but like um i as far as i knew allegory was still the the the fine word to use we didn't need coded coded is like uh you just have a bunch of a word for them you have a bunch of shapes and you know one of them is slightly misshapen and then the rest of the shapes like it's cool you can still hang out with us shape that is different from us and we're like oh i understand how this is coded but then someone else is like you're trying to hide it right like an allegory is like you're suggesting you're you're you're encouraging people to see the parallel between the story you're telling in some other thing like a coded thing is like it's you're trying to slip it under the radar am i getting that right that might be the connotation i thought that it was pretty much just something could be coded with purpose to give a particular message across that you think is a positive one but it might be the coded is the spooky allegory right you're trying to you're like you know black people anyway yeah lord the ring is really cool because the orcs get killed and i really like that excuse me the dwarves are well so it's basically that south park episode where when you go to musicals and they tell you to give your husband a blowjob um you should never made that black panther video i had no idea what was gonna happen when i made it i thought i was just annoyed that the film wasn't good i didn't realize that's what would happen but yeah um all right then let us continue now not to worry this episode isn't going to be just another member of the chorus talking about how if all orcs in a game are blindly evil that it's racist instead we want to discuss how that particular choice is simply bad game design so when they say we're not gonna just be part of the chorus on that it's not a chorus it's it's a very select few amount of fucking crazy insane racist people on the left to say this but um this they'll say that but they'll also use this video that's built upon that proposition is essentially true it assumes that it's true and it builds everything that it is on that idea so it's like we're not saying it but it kind of has to be the way things are for this video to even begin to make any level of sense so moving on um just gonna keep on moving i didn't say what you did was bad i said what you were doing isn't good or neutral it's the other one that's probably copyright thanks so much to nord vpn for sponsoring today's episode good job to take control of your another banger dude they're really cranking out a lot of videos aren't they they sponsor everything who cares north vpn hey guys i want to tell you about lord vpn this is really good yeah get a huge discount on a two-year plan and get one month free use code extracredits at nordvpn.com slash extracredits sweet real quick up top as they must be like they must have sponsored so many channels you can probably just type a random word in the fucking url and you just get a discount yeah please welcome james mendez hoades who guest wrote james mendez hoades james mendez hoades so apparently that guy co-wrote this uh this video and i looked him up and he wrote like a huge essay about uh something about this yeah yeah so james mendez hoades uh he has his own blog and he has his own youtube channel and i'd like us to watch one of it just listen to one of his videos very quick it's only a minute and a half but it is so very insanely informative and it will enlighten everyone going forward with this orc video he makes a lot of videos about orcs and fantasy and he does the whole tolken was racist thing and all of the stuff is bad thing he's just the most unfun miserable person you could imagine who has this obsession with race in fictional settings almost specifically orcs so i'm gonna post this and i guess anyone could pop this in the watch together well wait are we doing that now or after this one well we can just listen to it it's just a minute in 23 seconds so we're only 25 seconds in just for reference for for this one yeah we're 45 seconds in so i i think this is an interesting thing for us to watch really quick seeing my friends and acquaintances strong so he he wrote or at least co-wrote the video we're going to watch this is the writer of the video he's the guest writer yeah excellent all right let us let's get some context before we jump right in seeing my friends and acquaintances struggle to explain why we feel so strongly about orcs to people who vehemently disagree i thought i'd try rephrasing my orc tickles most important point in language which both sides since evidently now there are sides could accept if you feel the way i do and you can't get through to someone perhaps these words will help you this then is the most important thing i can say about orcs if we play a game and how you or the game talk about orcs reminds me how racists talk about me what well uh all right i should let it just carry memories of racism distract me and i cannot enjoy the game if you like call it a me problem not a you problem if you want that kind of game cool i just won't join you you'll be better off without me i'll be better off without you not calling you racist or evil just stating a preference but it's better we discuss this now rather than midway through the game yeah never mind tokyan history or theory that's the most important point of course i have other thoughts explained in the articles about depicting orcs in a way which tells people who fight racism daily you care more about our experience than consistency or balance but if you're interlocutor can't or won't respect a creative preference based on an inalienable experience of oppression block them they haven't reached a level of empathy we would expect from most children and that you're not getting paid enough to teach oh my god so children's understanding of empathy is much lesser and less respectable than an adult human it's just fyi yeah this is children have empathy this tells you everything you need to know about this person and how they view this entire topic and how they view essentially their existence i'm trying to figure out what what i could say about orcs that would remind someone about the racist things that they gets well this is the byproduct this is what happens when you tell people their race is who they are their race is their identity it's their most it is the manifestation of them as a person that's their race when you have this focus on race constantly all the time it creates people like james mendez hoads who can't not ever see it even if you totally fictional world in fictional universe it has to all come back to me in my either real or imagined racial oppression and what this means is that as we got towards the end of the this little statement here it allows him to make confidently incredibly strong moral judgments on your character because in your fictional setting you have orcs you have orcs in a particular way so that is that is a character judgment he can make on you as a person yeah and he clearly did he just because you want your world to be that way he was like you don't have the empathy of a child it's like thanks um first of all you have to put and i say that orcs aren't real and what he's saying is nice psychotic it's well i'm curious how far this stretch is because if if we agreed with him and we're like yeah you know what no more orcs and then we we care and play in different ips and we're like oh no the flood i guess they got to go yeah they're kind of evil right and then i wonder if he would be like yeah yeah true they got to go it's like cool they're out um oh no predator is he evil he's just hunting people for sport that's pretty evil and he's like yeah he's got to go it's like right he's gone right yeah like not every game is fucking mass effect or like civilization where it's actually important to like understand the complexity of each of the different races like sometimes you just need bad guys kill them all like doom or something i don't need to know the morality of like the fucking demons with rocket launchers to say kill them all it's like that's it's that yeah well do well let's have a look well actually do well doom is interesting right because the humans went to hell to exploit the resources of hell to fuel their own technology so it's like an ally for colonialism oh no what do you say yeah but but the demons well the demons they the demons had i guess in the doom lore in the doom war like eons before the events of doom there was all of these hell fights and hell wars that the hell denizens and demons fought against people who weren't evil so they're just evil they're they're just bad i was more appealing to like the concept of demons it's like demons are usually characterized by like oh no an evil thing like it's gonna do evil things uh there are different ideas that take a demon and they make it more complicated than simply evil but a lot of fucking content it's just like no the demon is the evil faction you're like right yeah satan is irredeemably evil canonically in the lore you know he's he's evil he he's not gonna he can't redeem himself he's not gonna redeem himself he doesn't want to he never even could if he did want to he's just an evil bastard i just like this idea there's a big room filled with different tabletop things and james bed does hose like what do you guys play it's like lord the rings thing okay anyway uh what are you guys playing halo what are you guys playing do fuck that well none of you can be my friends it leaves what are you guys playing mario oh that's no yeah i can't the goombas didn't have a chance choice didn't yeah this is fine enjoyment in anything i don't know that it's possible if you're working through this lens like maybe those goombas were pacifists and they had families maybe maybe the reason why they're upset is because mario's been you know the mushroom kingdom's been factories in goomba land um and they're employing them and the goombas are tried to unionize the peach published uh ads that tried to disincentivize the room unionizing dammit bowser yeah bowser was just um he was just the person that all the oppressed goombas rallied behind to fight against this mushroom oppression what happened was the coopers they they do mining um well i mean you know they're the hammer bros have the hammers and stuff so there was a mine collapse um sometime and and uh bowser tried to coordinate rescue efforts but princess peach didn't give a shit because it's just numbers you know she doesn't really give a shit about the people and so really those aren't even really people when you get down well as far as far as she's concerned yeah and so bowser is really upset and he he's basically formed i don't know i guess it's like the like bowser is you know i'm trying to think of what that would what that would lead to i want to find an interesting story for bowser's villain backstory maybe he's the hero after all and and like and mario is an allegory for just the way that countries just will bring men into wars to you know to just disposable wars to stop the people over there dying again and again and again and again yeah for what for capitalism that's what we're collecting standpoint theory satan is just misunderstood no satan is evil satan is evil and he doesn't have to be evil that's the whole idea he's evil if you ever have satan being like non-evil or complicated it's because you're trying to subvert what we understand to be satan that's like yeah you're you're writing in your fan fiction for the mythology satan's fucking evil he didn't have a choice in the matter he was gonna do what he was gonna do that's why he was created which sorry that's how it is yeah say poor satan sympathy for the devil dare i say i'm on the head sitting over here this cat over to the left he's like fuck me dude like all righty 43 seconds in hour and 40 who guest wrote this episode thanks so much mendez much of the recent conversation on orcs points out that characterizing the whole species in your game as ugly warlike and benevolent might be harmful this is so fruity and this is the most fruity it's like oh my god this is the image that you got to see today this is like this is the first thing i saw he's got better tips than she did pretty sure we can warrior i think you're trying to say with this picture i don't understand it's it's so fruity and yeah they made a major mistake with this one yeah like well they they're showing the slide because they're trying to make visualize the point that this isn't what their video is about right so this is why they're showing this slide but then as the video goes on like he was saying before yeah they allude to basically the same point that they were saying it's not yes but like we're totally not saying this guys but our video relies on this being the case right because yeah because this video is about if if there were no people who unironically thought this image was a you know a real thing this video wouldn't exist i want a story about an orc barista now i like the idea of that or a hairdresser yeah trying to make it in the big city you know making all these copies but he wants to write a screenplay um but yeah i have a canal story oh it's so awkward to listen to that first season jesus i don't know who the fuck is thinking that by the way i feel like what they see in orc so yeah i think of elderly black women as ugly warlike and benevolent might be harmful to real world groups regularly mischaracterized as ugly warlike and benevolent however this video isn't that so if you want more on that discussion i saw what i'm talking about down what do you see so he just said like we're not doing that but that is valid it's like what and also also mauler we're not doing that but over on james mendez's channel you could he breaks it down amazingly all of these concepts but it's not us but you should totally go to james's channel and his blogs and you should read all of his fucking leftist drivel about orcs by the way don't go to his channel it's shit it's not even entertainingly bad he's a bore it's important in case you enjoyed lord of the rings that's what you need you need help okay stop it wonderfully over on his website when your video is 480 i you need to maybe get a new camera yeah that in the description but here we're going to talk about something related all right characterizing a group like this in your game dragons on always characterizes evil yeah you've got a skeleton a devil an orc and a dragon i guess it's just like basic symbolic depictions of yeah i guess right but i would i would actually agree that like skeletons and devils and orcs i'm mostly okay with the dragons are often portrayed as good dragons are all over the place yeah yeah dragons are good games can be lazy at best and at worst actively harmful to the world you're creating all right which is sort of the point isn't it of an evil race well that they have a point to bring up is like guys that an evil race can be actively harmful to the world you're in is like yeah i'm sure he means from a consistency standpoint are you sure yes because it would be a retarded thing to say that like they might hurt your heroes like yep they're literally the i think the image sort of is in it's you know you just maybe that they were representative symbols in the past slide how was this not the same thing this represents the idea that i think that they said which is retarded but i don't think they're smart enough to i see here's the thing i don't think that extra credits is smart i think that they think they're smart oh somebody's mentioned uh was it what was the name of the the so dan from medieval he's a little skeleton man and he's the hero well the this thing there i don't even know that i want to put skeletons in that list to be honest with you i feel like there are a decent amount of stories there are skeletons and divinity they're good guy demons and and buffing skulls augury the the skeleton man detective won't lose it again that's been lost since we're at that book yeah let's go when designing a game's world and populating it with fictional species a designer might be tempted to differentiate them from one another by certain inalienable qualities like they're you have to though so i i think i think this would be how we point to add in right now is that i personally find it really boring to to do uh to do um morally aligned like species and races i definitely always good or it's always bad well like one of the things yeah like if i were ever doing one of these things i don't think i'd ever want to have like just the evil because i always find it interesting to explore the idea of like what if we actually look at the pov of like the bad guy minions and humanize the bad guy minions but i recognize it like if you're doing something like star wars or or uh you know like something with the world's story it's often a lot yeah well it's it's easier to have a big amalgamation of bad guys because it means that you don't have to deal with the moral consequences of killing things like i mean adventures is a good example right the titari are just these evil aliens so you don't have to worry about the heroes beating them up because they're basically evil but like i personally would prefer it if people were if we had more fantasy worlds and stuff where we actually tried to not do the moral alignment not because i think that there's any bad real world implications but more so just because i don't find it as personally interesting generally in multiple alignments in a single species or race i think i think for a writing standpoint it's more interesting interesting yeah yeah which way if you have like a second slash game you just just need the bad guys yeah bad guys like this guy's evil because the born evil okay well generally there's plenty of room for both if you have you have all these right if you have a setting you don't want to make it too small and you have all these races and you can have everything from you you can have the orcs and they have i don't know maybe they're you use like a like a nomadic kind of template for them going from place to place move it around they're less centralized and you know they're doing their own thing they're not evil but you also have like zombies or you have some you can have both essentially you can have the evil creatures and all of their unique aspects especially how it relates to combat and problem solving for your players and you can have those segments where you don't have to worry about the morality of killing the the the bugs or the spiders or the zombies or the the dark spirit skeletons or what what have you that's just for you know you problem solving and tactics and things like that but then you also have okay we came across this other race and they're not actually just evil there's plenty of room i have like an evil government and well you know or an institution's life systems it shouldn't be assumed to be a contradiction rather we just don't have the information so for example if you have humans humans two humans three and they're just these three big civilizations across a really big world and all of humans three fight for saran while the rest of us band against him and it's like humans three are the same as humans two and one like in every single way so why are they all fighting for him is that a contradiction shouldn't there be some that don't or something it's like i guess we just don't know or spell has been cast or they've been given so much propaganda that they see us as we see them like there's all these different stories you could run with but like the idea that for the sake of my story humans three are fighting with saran we have to stop them like the um the easterlings in um in orderings right yeah we don't go wait i want to know why the easterlings fight for saran it's like this is a world stage all kinds of factions are fighting for all kinds of reasons that we can't get into right now sure they have their reasons um this reminds me of the prequels when wasn't it cosmopolitan who said like we don't even know why the planets are joining the cis like you can assume we cannot get into why every single planet is doing everything they do uh we have vague sort of uh ideas from count dooku and different characters about like the state of the world yeah we have references to yeah we have references to the republic and how it's not all that great all the time and how you know this that and the other thing you could it's pretty clear that you could draw some lines yeah and then the alternative idea is you have a drone or a or a type of animal or creature that has been modified to be unable to do anything but fight for the bad guys or whatever so you don't need more meaningful reasons you just go that's the that's all they can do they don't they don't know anything else because of the way they've been like cybermen from uh from doctor who again i don't know why my example is coming from doctor who but the obviously it's just humans converted cybernetic maybe the ball would be um another example right yeah yeah it's just depending on what's going on and to assume the worst like orcs are thinking creatures that are all evil from the get go which is a contradictory why have you assumed all of this what where did you get all this from i don't think they're even i don't think they're even talking about that don't muller i think it's more simple and reductive than that i'm not sure that we're talking about story consistency or potency or anything like that well i assume that's what this is like orcs are morally aligned to be evil and they're like that's that's dumbest well i i guess i mean you dumb but if you want to make them that way in your story sure well obviously we'll listen to their argument first i'm just i'm sort of just trying to count the expected ones like i don't i don't think we can call it a problem until we know more specifics about how they manage to be that way and what they are someone in chat said like didn't saraman say they were like tortured elves or whatever and even with that that's just not enough right this like what does that mean what will happen to them why why are they the way that they are exactly and what does it mean for them going forward could they ever fight for man it's like i don't think so from what we're shown um because like their brains are decomposed or something and they're but they get re-inhabited but with their old corrupted souls or something just i think the easy answer is that saran's got a really strong control over them and the rings okay like they they want power and to make saran win is to have the most power why saraman joins yeah saraman's not even uh uh an orc he's he's a he's a wizard he's a white wizard yeah that's the thing right like to go back to the the racial thing like the the orcs in lord of the ring i mean i'm no lord of the rings expert but like the the purpose of the orcs is in the story is like they are a boundary to force the main characters in a particular direction to tell a more centralized story about power i think fundamentally which is what the ring represents like to explore the orcs and give them multi-dimensional personalities just kind of gets in the way of that because you don't need that like their role in that story is to just be this brutal ruthless force it's like you see an orc on the screen it's like oh shit the main characters are in danger they better run like it's okay to have characters that just hack and slash everything they're just brutal that's what they are yeah they have like other characters who are the dialogue reflects like evil interests as well most of the things they say is usually just like lol aragorn fell off the cliff that piece of shit that's mean to say mr all I sure love dead men yeah that sort of stuff yeah i fucking hate people who are good i hate the happiness it's fucking annoying i guess wait now i'm just trying to so if if because now i'm thinking about that you know i'm thinking about Boromir probably the best character in a lot of the rings right and how whole his whole journey is about him getting like corrupted by the ring because he's you know desperate to have the power to like protect uh protect um gondor and all that um i guess now i'm just thinking like surely we can all recognize like the lord of the rings what it's about is like universal and regardless of where you come from or like you know what race you are because that shouldn't matter anyway that like there's something in there that uh can speak to all humans because it's something it's so universal as an experience like nobody can relate to orcs like no human being can relate to the orcs in that universe because they're so you're by designers so right yeah i guess that's if uh yeah i'm not sure where i was going with that one i guess it's just it feels like i don't know why anybody would look at lord of the rings and assume that the orcs are meant to be representative of any group of human beings i'm not sure who could even do that well when i first heard the argument i was just like are you just looking for ways to be pissed off at lord the rings because it's so great this is what's happening like what why bond i think that considering the author yeah yeah i think that yeah this is a person who looks for victimization and oppression and things to whine about as it relates to his personal race i guess weird as well that's just falls apart i don't think it really holds any water any attention to the text well and that's the problem with allegory if someone presents like this is what lord the rings is saying and someone else goes well um i've got equally good if not better references that say the opposite so now what i would say the references are better that's why i was saying like it at the very least they are as competent and able to back you off so it's just like so what do you do and it's like well it's how i feel it's like should lord of the rings change because you feel it should it seems a bit weird to me but the funny thing is the next iteration of game or tv show or movie is probably going to include like hey you know orcs they're actually like there's this whole thing going on okay guys they're not we don't want people thinking we're racist okay oh my god moral alignment violence versus i thought uh tia was gonna say something i wasn't sure okay done all right peaceful law versus chaos good versus evil and the like it's a common trope in speculative fiction but it's no oh the original point uh so i think you got kind of cut off by the the other discussion that we've been doing let me take this back just a little bit um because they they say a weird thing you could believe it all right when designing a games world and populating it with fictional species a designer might be tempted to differentiate them from one another by certain inalienable qualities like they're more you might be tempted to differentiate different things by an inalienable qualities that might be a temptation that you have guys kind of is the basis for differentiation i mean you see these here on screen you're like there's a lot of things that are differentiating them inherently by their species it's not really a surprise what a i guess no everyone's the same size same shape gray skin gray suit oh yeah the gray blobby universe you might be tempted eating gray slime they're the new as a writer how else can you differentiate two things no other way that's how you do it i think it was a it was a sentence it was a sentence to set up the next sentence and they didn't think how stupid it would be like if i wanted to say the boys is badly written and so i open with you know some things are badly written and then i say that you'd be like why was it the first fucking yes it's almost like and it's like saying some writers might be tempted to use their imagination when creating a fictional universe and you're like yeah you can't have it any other way you might be tempted to differentiate people by differentiating them yeah kind of it's kind of kind of tautological yeah or i guess uh i guess when he says inalienable he's not talking about personality traits i guess right i assumed he was talking about yeah it's it's the traits which which is well yeah that's what makes it yeah that's what makes it ridiculous is that especially that specific usage wait a minute surely so like mass effect is always a really good example to go to because there are clear differences in like the fundamental ideologies that seem to be persistent among the people of the different races like the the krogans are a lot more aggressive and had strong the asarias go more basic loving and scientific um wait what go more basic yeah i yeah just go more go more inalienable inalienable i guess i guess it's just that those are kind of inalienable right because it's kind of no you could you can teach like the the different races to behave in different ways oh sure sure but i guess it's the idea of like we're talking about like the inalienable inalienable characteristics of the krogan you look at a krogan and you're like oh like they're genes what their body is you know what that species is fringy's looking to explore whether or not there are such things as an inalienable personality traits for example if someone said dwarves are always like boisterous and loud and they always you could say the same thing like we do it a lot with like australians could be obnoxious or british people can be uh really up their own ass yeah like stuff like that they're more like stereotypes but at the same time if you had a dwarf grow up in an elvish society he might be a little bit more frustrated than a lot of the rest of the elves but at the same time he's going to be so much more chill than probably most dwarves ever right yeah but even those aren't intrinsic in the way that they're talking about it which is what makes it so bizarre i know what they're saying i guess what i'm getting at is like i feel like the line's a little blurry on this one depending on uh like i feel like you can depending on what story you're right you can always push it by degrees more and more into like i feel like the you know everybody is like exactly the same and then you have different countries and national identities or different religious ones and then you push it further of like um different alien species and maybe they just have different you know they have they evolved in a different environment which changes their outlook and changes their biology and all that and then you just keep pushing it further and further by degrees at what point does it become unex like it where is the line that would make it alienable versus inalienable i guess is what uh what i'm trying to think about at the moment it's not super important we're trying i'm trying to explore this more than i think this video is going oh yeah i was just pointing out what an insanely dumb sentence that they wrote down will be tangenting everywhere we haven't even gotten to what the fuck any of this has to do with game design alignment violent versus peaceful law versus chaos good versus evil and the like it's a common trope in speculative fiction but especially in the context of a game painting an entire species with the same moral brush actually weakens the entire thing so this is how this is one of those um so two things here what fringy was probably going to allude to was one of those things yeah but two this kind of gets into what i was mentioning earlier about how their their imagery and their their usage of painting things with an evil brush doesn't make sense if you as the creator of the universe have decreed that these orcs are intrinsically evil you're not painting them with the brush like there is no brush the evil is the paint and it's already it's not even the paint the they are the orcs are the evil thing they're not creatures that have been painted evil it makes as much sense as saying they're orcs it's like stop painting these creatures as orcs it's like they are orcs what do you mean exactly yeah well i think that's the problem is there's painting something as evil as like if something exists and then you assign attributes to it in your opinion versus like you created these things to be this way you haven't painted them with a brush they are that because you're the creator and you said that that's what they are just to rewind slightly yeah the paint implies the superficiality yeah like if i said all dwarves are obnoxious like i think earlier and then someone was like you shouldn't really be painting all dwarves as obnoxious and then i was like oh yeah that's fair you know they're not all of them are they're just they just hear that way and you're just like okay that would be more applicable than you can't call the evil things evil you're like what do you mean i don't understand yeah and then uh i suppose we should get to the how in this video is probably next well i was i was thinking of that that character example you came up with some dude who's like half krogan half dwarf or whatever it's like you could make a great story out of that right like having to be the main character then you'd have to think like well what's this transformation like what does he learn but then like if the broader story isn't about that when don't don't bother with that it's okay to hit for him to just be a one-dimensional every story has to be incredibly layered and complex and it all has to be allegorical of real life issues it can never just be a thing you wanted to make because you liked it right this idea that a certain subgroup like race national oh no we go for no one thinks this it's insane like nobody this this is nutsality or sex has an aleable traits is called biological essentialism or simply bioessentialism and it's a valid way to talk about qualities like how many legs an animal has or whether it can fly but all too often this concept gets misused in untrue statements like pit bulls are a violent breed men are more logical than women or asians are bad white they are white wait a minute but but isn't okay bioessentialism apply to likes don't certain animals have certain ways that they behave though okay so this is so i think the issue here is that we're okay so let's use because i don't i honestly don't want to touch the second or third example they're going to do here but let's let's go let's go the pit bull one because it's more simple and it won't get us banned so pit bull if we if statistically pit bulls are absolutely the most violent dog and it's not even fucking close despite making up only 6.5 percent of the dog population pit bull fatalities and dog bites account for 66 percent of deaths like it's kind of nuts yeah it's it's really big so here we go are we talking about violence as a this is the thing this is the difference between are we saying that they're violent in a descriptive way or are we saying that they're violent in a prescriptive way like that is what it is we just use like intrinsically a pit bull is not violent in that sense but genetically they are more likely disposed or more likely to be violent but that's a description we put on behavior that they can have and right and there's other factors that contribute to that i wish it weren't considered so taboo because like i think it's fine when you when you when you're just doing sort of tendencies and generalizations for example the ones i brought up earlier being the australian versus the brit you can have certain expectations you're likely going to be able to predict quite a few things about the way that those two different people approach different things and the same goes for like an american or a russian or whatever you can you can just be like yeah there's a tendency toward blah blah blah doesn't and i guess what they're trying to get out is like okay but it's not intrinsic you cannot say that every single british person will send a letter when they want to complain about something rather than being upfront because they're all about that civility yeah there's but like so i don't know to be the like yeah that that second of like oh medieval logical i should be like um okay you could you could in a vacuum try and be very careful about how you'd want to explain that and uh i would probably if ever wanted to approach that situation again not looking to get banned um perhaps you could argue in exchange women are often much more emotionally available and understanding or empathetic and uh these two traits may have come from the fact that those two sides would have had to be dealing with problems that required those two things more so than the other hopefully we're still live like i don't know yeah things are yeah like a pit bull is statistically more likely to be responsible for a fatal dog bite that doesn't mean that each individual pit bull is a killer well so i guess where i'm getting a little so bio essentialism he says it's like so this is apt to explain basically the physical manifestation of evolutionary traits but what how do you what about like the the behavioral manifestations of evolutionary traits like the general behavior of a deer versus wolves or sharks or um or uh panthers or um like bears is that would that be considered separate or is that also part of bio essentialism too i don't i've never really heard about this subject before so i'm not sure what the what the word means and this whole tangent that he's doing is kind of like not even relevant to the point of orcs because the orcs are whatever you say that they are in a fictional world they they do whatever there anything you want them to be for any reason that you'd like i think that's his point is that you shouldn't be making things like that that's that's wrong because it'll make people think about it irl and then that'll create problems because it'll make people say things that are wrong irl uh you know like if if the nicest person mr rogers it said you know men uh not a more logical than women seems to be to me and then he goes to jail but like it would be like oh well uh what did he base that on it's just like i don't know just some interactions he thought about whatever and then some other person listens to him goes we should kill all women yes the world would be a better place you're like oh no no you've oh no i think this is like this end point that people are very very concerned about whenever you have the the topics of like they're really really simplistic like nobody's gonna die level for example just the the obvious caveat that plenty of women will be more logical than plenty of men that's fine all right you can say everything all vice-versa all traits flowing around but if you make your willed and you say not dwarves really like drinking that's just something they just like kind of do in a vacuum it's not even about the culture they just oh man they love that alcohol they just get like a really strong desire for it they're just and once they find it like oh yeah i love this shit someone's like you can't have that because then it's like dwarves will be like the drunks or the stupids and you can't be having that that's bio essential it's fucked up when you're just like oh no i just i want to have some fun i didn't i didn't want to i'm not trying to say this is like some kind of it doesn't put them on a lower scale species wise then you know you know i'm getting that it's like i think it just we're worried about where it might end up versus what it is yeah this is my whole problem with the video orcs aren't real and like how like the whole tangent like how would you then apply the racial trait to an actual existing like part of humanity that's that's if anything you you have the problem not not me right am i the only one that thinks that it's like it's crazy well to kind of to kind of tie to that there is an aspect here and we see this often where there's a lot of projection that comes from these kinds of people they are the way that they see race and the way that they try and connect fantasy with reality that's something that's in their heads and so they try to put that onto other people and they assume that other people think these thoughts and they think that other people surely other humans like me must think this way and draw these connections when we just in when we tell them no people don't think this you're an insane crazy person who needs help they can't believe that um as someone said i'm all with with the dwarves they can be seen as more durable and able to handle poisons better or something like that and yeah so this is if we're doing traits from top to bottom it's like extra credits are with us and they're like oh what a dwarf so it's like they're shorter but they're more brawler like brawlers they're like they're able to handle damage more and whatever because they're um biology they're like oh cool and you go also they're a little bit more um like willing to jump into the fight they're a lot less scared and then extra credits will be like whoa you've just applied a personality trait that i i don't like that that should be as a result of their upbringing or the choices they make it shouldn't be as part of their biology and you're like oh and that i just meant that as a tendency like i don't really i'm not i didn't and i think this is what's happening it's just suddenly it's like you've become super evil you're like no no no i i i didn't that's not what i'm going for like i yeah these tendencies line that you'd be confused as you know part of a creature's genetic makeup when oh i was just i don't think a single person has ever thought that yeah that a line needs to be drawn when you're talking about stuff like this like if you were to say like rags bio essentialism like what's bio essentialists about a human and i'd be like okay i guess like dna you know that the genetic structure of what we you know see as a human that's the bio essentialists thing nature of it and that's just that's just what i'd say i wouldn't go into really behaviors nearly as much because those behaviors like you could change your behavior and you could change the behavior of people easier than you could change their other though interestingly if you had a physical you were designing a game and human was one of the several different species you could pick to play as and you said to be like uh in a vacuum what statistics would you push higher for human than like you know our orcs elves and all stuff and i'd be like i don't know maybe um we could push curiosity and that maybe plays into some mechanic in the game or um pattern recognition maybe that's higher for humans than other species and design generalities are key here yeah like these things seem to be consistent across humanity like we've we've evolved to be very much interested in uh figuring things out solving problems we're all about that shit a lot of the time well that's key to that's key to evolution really is it if we want to if you're creating a scientific perspective a world with like brand new species that have been so like you know like the elves who've been now chances are if a game is set in the real world um there we go if you create a species like elves and you basically determine that for millennia they've been godlike and unstoppable they might not quite have maintained whatever they had trait wise that similar to humans when they were first developing and getting to be the dominant race or whatever um because we've talked about before but i just like the idea that humans despite being so low-leveled compared to a lot of fictional uh alternative species that we end up seeing in fiction that we still have the um like the plucky nature of of a young race and there's traits that come with that that are very admirable but if someone said like if i was to put all those in and someone was like well that's very bio sensualist of you i'd be like oh i i didn't want to like talks to a generality calm down yeah like it's not supposed to be some evil thing it's just chill calm down yeah and those generalities again are descriptive of what we see in their behavior if humans if a different if humans had been another way in this universe then we would be describing them differently so important to note the bio-essentialism thing seems really tacked on to this if you're designing a game you're not thinking about bio-essentialism you're thinking okay is this fun like yeah what is the what is the player going to be doing with the controller what are the enemies what are the sprites going to be you know it's like when the guy made space invaders you know he's not thinking like what's what is bio-essentialism of these fucking pixelated aliens they're there to shoot yeah and i would i would also say as well like the idea of giving elves dwarves and man these specific dare i say bio-essentialist traits in in a world of lord the rings or whether or not it's lord the rings just whatever um part of that is interesting when you make them a team you're like oh shit all the things that make them different will now bounce off each other to help each other as a group that's cool and someone else is like yes but it's it's problematic what what what was like it's like how do you talk about anything anymore yeah how do you write anything in fantasy and unless i miss something they're they're not limiting game design in this case to tabletop games and rpgs they're talking about all games right like game design period yeah i think so um and specifically i think what they get now here is that if we would design the game and i said the elven race has a higher intelligence than other races at the base stat they'd be like you can't do that that's fucked up i'd be like yeah that's now if so if we talk about like base stats on like races and things of that nature if if i had a player who came if i was the dmgm um and someone came to me and said so about these starting stats for races and instantly i'd be on guard hearing that but i'd be like you don't go on and and they said so if they were if they were going to argue that there's no reason a dwarf should have less charisma than an elf for instance if that was the rules i would be far more keen to be like okay sure instead of if they had said yeah a hobbit should be just as fast as an elf you know like there's that line they said the the differences in like biology that's chill but yeah so i i i agree with you because like i like the idea of a particularly charismatic dwarf and then a particularly like sheltered elf and you know you team them up because you don't expect that necessarily then again dwarves are probably relatively like socially competent i imagine i don't know i guess it depends on what fiction it's up to your universe it's up to you and how your how their culture sort of is you could do it either way that's the that's the joy of the freedom that you could make whatever you want as long as this person doesn't think it's linked to racism in some way yeah because i have a feeling someone would be like wait wouldn't it be the reverse like in in this example it's whatever the fucking person designed it to be and then someone comes up to them and says i would rather it not be that can we maybe tweak it a bit um and yeah and depend on the situation you totally can but i think that you've kind of lost the plot if you say like rags i want my dwarves to be more charismatic and you go oh no the world is built this way on purpose and i go i'm not playing like okay that's okay and i would say well maybe is if you want to be a charismatic dwarf then you can do that and that could be like a story thing for your character that could be part of your character's journey and part of their characteristics is that while most dwarves are seen as very stoic and boring and not very uh you know sociable or charismatic your dwarf actually really is and so he has to fight against that stereotype and it surprises people how well spoken he is and how able he is to pick up on social cues and how funny his fucking jokes are and that could be a thing that you could have as interesting to your character but i'm not going to alter my entire universe for you well yeah i was going to say like that's an interesting response right it's like you are going to be the charismatic of that particular non charismatic selection and they go no i want the selection to be charismatic you know like i want all the dwarves to be charismatic well yeah they consider it offensive that you've made them non charismatic you know there's people in chat right now who like dwarves aren't typically that and it's like that could be the reasoning for their complaint they could be like i don't think dwarves should be like and you're like well they are in my will and you're like i don't care i want you to change it that's the fun idea i want to be the battle the in a world that sees orcs as barbaric and you know uh what's the word pugnacious um i want to be a very charismatic uh like like a barred orc who doesn't want to fight he's very peaceful and he's a pacifist and that's what makes that character interesting in this world people do that all the time they play off the like the total opposite tropes of what people expect all right it's fun yeah and you can't have opposite words articulate maybe yeah you can't have opposite tropes if there aren't any tropes or traits you know it can't be yeah wow how shocking the thing is right you know like that wouldn't exist this manner of looking at races just leads to every race just being they're all just humans they're all all just gray blobs that are identical yeah and i think that the uh the way that you could probably settle it for these guys i don't know if this would work for them but um if you said you know that that trait for elves it's not you are born with it it's the you're picking a character that's already existed in elven culture for x y z years and uh that's why that intelligent stat is higher than others because of the culture and society they grow up in i imagine they would they would be more amenable to that rationale but i still think well but if i said different races if i told you that the stats are like born stats and then you get to live that in my game you you live through each of their cultures and then you do whatever um i assume they find that offensive they'd be like you can't have the elf having five intelligence at birth when the dwarf has four that's fucked up it's just funny because from a cataclysm standpoint you're like no there's a reason for this it's about balance because the dwarf has bigger uh maybe courage maybe that's higher for the dwarf oh you're right yeah all of this is sort of it's almost it's almost so obvious that i don't even think we've even thought to mention it all of this is under the concept that it's a video game that should be balanced in some way yeah you want that it is an interactive set of rules that people are you know messing around with so the fundamental problem of that design you want things to be different from other things but you also them want them to not be more powerful or better as a choice therefore making the one redundant yes how do we possibly make halflings as viable of a choice as a battle hardened super ripped orc is like well other things that that's top trumps when they had samwise gamgee being one of the best cards in the top trunch load rings because his resilience was 10 i think is the highest out of any character in the entire thing and to beat people with sam buck them up so someone said that's a party fucked up you made a base trait of hobbits to be resilient to the power of the rig and you're like i'm tired of this it's problematic in a positive sense just as just the same as it is for negative traits that all elves charismatic is problematic in just the same way as all dwarves not being charismatic is so we can't do anything anymore yeah everyone has to be exactly the same except they look different in different cultures and again i mean just don't don't have different species in your game if it's going to be an issue just the world is literally only humans and they're all the same quote-unquote race of humans they're all the same if you if you don't want to deal with any of this stuff and you don't want it in your world just have that be the case have your setting or it's just you this takes place on the continent of baba ganoush and everyone's a human everyone everyone's a human and they're all you know this color because it's tropical and there boom there's another um let's someone just point out and chat there's another benefit of like when you jump into a new game like this and you're like what are what are the races and like i'm not really i don't care what i look like i'm more interested in what their characteristics are and then you go through them you're like that seems like me that seems more like me than the others i'll check that that's kind of wiped out if you uh the revivalent breed men are more logical than women or asians are better at math now chances are if a game is said in the real world that the designers are avoiding these tropes because they aren't real as multiple fields of societal and hard science can readily prove to you but specular tendency i don't think anyone can deny tendencies all right it's fine it's gotta be okay yeah that's what that's what the tropes are what do you look at this descriptions of what we see it's the same as stereotypes people like stereotypes aren't like a real representation like where do you think they came from it was just it was seen enough and it's repeated enough and when you point it out and then it happens afterwards it's like oh my god yes it's fine don't worry about it i'm gonna hit anyone they're just this just this is such a huge fucking citation needed on why these tropes exist and you know why they set is because they they think that if you open up that in any way to a valid sense then it opens up the door to the next room which is filled with all yeah like that's what i think if you go ahead yeah the room we're in right now is fine okay we're all sitting around the table and we go lol metal the gym and he's gonna do xyz the fucking the two british people are gonna do xy like and it's just fun back and forth banter can come down to all kinds of different things the next room you open that door and there's all people in there like we should kill the ones who are different like no no no no we're not going in that room we lock the door okay let's fuck that room i wasn't having a good time i was offended personally i was good but yeah it's is they they think that if you like point it's weird because they simultaneously don't want us to point out differences and they say that like like color blindness you can't be colorblind you have to acknowledge people's race and you have to see the black person as a black person and if you don't if you just see them as a person you're denying or ignoring their lived experience or whatever horseshit they want to pedal on us but at the same time if you recognize the difference in the races then that will turn you into a horrible evil racist and that's that's terrible and awful and it'll make you a bad person they want both things yeah you can't win they want both things at the same time they have to have it be the way it reminds me of something you said i don't know it wasn't a stream or whatever but i think you said oh remember when we were in school when we didn't have to think about any races you were just yeah those are the days yeah yeah i think you said my parents never at some point yeah my parents never told me about race i just assumed that different races were different because in the same way that like some people's ears are bigger than others and some people were taller than others and some people had brown eyes and blue eyes my my child brain was like oh yeah some people are black and some people are white and some people are asian and some people are hispanic that was it there was all there was it was just a total superficial sort of thing that i noticed and it was it is never and it was never an issue is never a problem and i think that might be what i hate the most about like lefties and sjw's and progressives is that they've kind of corrupted that innocence that i've had where i never saw race as a thing that even need to be talked about and now i can't get it out of my head because they won't shut up about it here's an example they're always going on about race um we get uh when i would have first like wanted to talk about online like different shows or movies i thought were really really good and then i look into like reviews of people saying that they're fantastic and one of the opening reasons is like oh the amount of like black people or asian people in it and i'm like what there's just people in it like why did you what like and then by the same note it's it's like you could say they have coded us to now watch something like falcon and the winter soldier and you see the new captain america arrive and you're like uh oh he's probably gonna be a bad guy oh he's white guy he's probably gonna be a bad dude yeah it's like why would you say that it's like well after hayward the the guy who does a whole bunch of good things in wonder vision and is constantly coded to be a bad guy for no fucking reason that then decides to kill two children at the end of it like i i'm expecting i've already heard by the way i haven't seen it yet apparently in the newest episode he's like he's definitely evil now he's done the thing we said this would happen i don't know what it's gonna be but like we're just waiting for him to do something really evil because they can't fucking write this shit anymore it's really embarrassing um and if someone said like what have you based that on i'd be like um i mean he's white this part of it is a problem that he's he's antagonistic to our to our uh protagonist and he's the the the unfortunately like you know someone said like wait the emperor is white so why do you care i just like no no it's not even white people can be evil it's fine it's just it's just awkward now because um i didn't used to give any kind of a shit about race but uh they've made it so necessary that you can predict writing um we can predict stories by looking at the races of characters which is not fortunate at all it's very bad that we've arrived at this point yeah but you know when i was when i was a kid and i saw blade that was the coolest mother fucker existence oh yeah a black vampire with uh he's got the black coat and the swords and the fangs and those sunglasses what an absolute unit yeah never even thought that yeah so i longed for those days of innocence yeah blade blade is a great example of just like nobody gave a fuck that he was black he was just awesome yeah um but i'm sure they came more nowadays that he was black uh or at least a more open about it i guess it's just it's gotten so strange uh he did discussion i just want to talk about the stuff that was really well written and made sense not whether or not allegorically it's good to represent uh i don't know what is captain america and winter soldier like he's the machine he's he's the government coming in to take things and trying to appear as a hero i don't even know if we're gonna do an e-fap for that show it's so fucking annoying i don't i don't think i care enough about it like i'll we'll finish it and we'll hate it because we already do because it's shit and then we'll get to the end and we'll just we'll start off an e-fap by saying yeah don't watch this show it's crap i'm just waiting for ruins things the last episode just opens with him just chopping children's heads off with the shield yeah he's evil by the way and also i'll be back in a second real quick we are back oh my god i think uh people like that who you were talking about like super lefties um they they get caught in i think this like emotional loop where they're like we're all different but we're all the same but we're all different but we're all the same and like they they when they fall on one side they become so empathetic of and like i don't know ashamed of themselves that they neglected the other one it's like oh we got to go back there and that's how you end up with these hypocritical things that are going on right now with like racial segregation which is just like what's like like it's it's it's seen as a plus by those people but and then you have a bunch of other people who are just like what we're separating races now like is this what we want to do and i think it's it's so fucked up right it's it's yeah basically um i don't they i think they they like that drama of it right like the the emotional the emotion of that loop rather than just like trying to rest in a logical space somewhere in the middle like and try and figure out like a consistent stance yeah well yeah because consistency is is cater like actually making sure that you understand what you value and what you're trying to almost push for i guess right and if it's flip flopping between because yeah it seems it seems like emphasizing the differences is not the right way to go about it because presumably in the ideal world the differences are like not important to anybody at all anymore you know like the difference the difference becomes as significant as the difference in eye color or the difference in like hair color it just doesn't matter but it's hard to do that if you're emphasizing all of this like no we need to talk about the ways in which we're different i don't know it feels like not and especially when we're applying it to like world building and fucking dungeons and dragons yeah so we're getting so far removed and we have so many different motivations to actually have these differences from not only like an interest in terms of the conflict or the bouncing off but also just fucking balance that's getting to the point where like look if you can't handle the idea that orcs are in fiction just read nonfiction you'll be fine yeah yeah by the way i hope this i hope this super inclusive muslim woman isn't sculpting Muhammad or she's going to be in trouble yep but it's interesting that that that line between fiction and nonfiction is kind of the line like like in fiction in nonfiction you deal with human beings and all of their true-to-life complexity in fiction you get to simplify characters like we'll make them as complex as you want but sometimes the point of fiction is to keep them as simplistic as possible to make a greater point clear i think yeah i think that's one of the strengths of stories is that you can you can tap into the empathy that people have for other people uh to to make people reconsider a value or a point or an idea or a theme um right and and that it's easier to present these fundamental principles through the lens of a story because you can you can try and remove the complexities and and sort of the the baggage that's attached to real-world things to hit at that fundamental point and then people can take that and build it up from there when they address more complex issues they can work through it by working from whatever the base principle is that they could have gotten from a story right i like stories so much i mean children's stories right you want to keep things simple simple simple so you can convey a very particular like moral message to a kid like don't do this thing or this will happen sometimes the most efficient way to tell a story like that is to have very like cardboard characters like this this character is this thing how do how does extra credits draw a beheading what well because they're like rayman characters right that's why you're saying that well the hands and heads are anyway before i mean rayman head is attached to his body wait hold on wait wait a minute hold on on his rayman head attached to his no it's not he has no neck that's right he's totally limbless yeah god why don't we got to get a new rayman game rayman legends was awesome why don't you make yourself free fuck yeah maybe i will maybe i will but speculative fiction offers us an opportunity to reify or make real various what's the difference between speculative fiction and other forms of speculative fiction is when um is basically just science fiction and fantasy it's any it's any fiction where you've made pretty significant changes to the world or the way that reality works okay it's different from like historical fiction or also yeah but well old history speculative fiction is i think old history counts as speculative it's basically anything that isn't based on the real world as we know it whereas uh like for example a detective story like boss or something that's not speculative it's set in a real world in like the monday or in a time that actually happened so like so maybe assass assassins creators probably like would be speculative fiction even though it's part of the part of like real history because there's so much stuff that's changed and like fantasy elements that it becomes not that so yeah star wars is speculative fiction marvel is speculative fiction lord of the rings is speculative it the term sounded suspiciously like i don't have to do any research it's a speculant of plot i'm just speculating a little more or like yeah or make real various things which don't exist or to exaggerate things which do now bioessentialism is attempting idea in fantasy for some of the same reasons as it is in the real world whoa whoa like i'll let him finish but like whoa all right because to our human minds broad generalizations are comforting they reduce the world to simple cut and dry categories all orcs bad all elves good root for these folks not for these folks but just like that's so fucking not a single person where are you going that way i'm a single person to use fiction that way this is the thing that's not even happening in mind works depending on the ip as well like the idea that this is an orcs in general like when did that happen well this is just this is the you know by design evil this is the projection element coming where you you watching this this is why to you this is why you painting things in a broad brush this is why you do it because it's just so much more comforting and it's so much safer you know boy i don't know i feel like if i'm walking down the street and like there's a lion on the sidewalk i'm okay with broadly categorizing that lion is wanting to eat me and running away that sounds useful categorize because we can't not categorize like without it the fucked to harrick just like it makes the world intelligible like everything can't be anything like now when i look at something when i look at that tree i'm going to be tree outside my door i'm going to be like i'm going to broadly categorize this tree based on my lived experiences because they they fucking love those my lived experiences with trees and how they behave and what their properties are i feel like there's a lot of extremely valid ways to broadly paint things there are bad ways sure but i feel like there's a i feel like in most instances it's actually extremely beneficial and useful and is totally lacking in any moral component either again i think it's necessary i don't think we can function without doing it well here's an example yeah because we'd be we'd be terrified every single time we saw anything because we would have no idea how it may or may not function every car every staircase every plant every animal every everything if our mind believes that it could probably just do anything the world would be nonsense um yeah here's an example right i've told this on on efab before it's just a funny story but now it's applicable in a different way i was coming home from work and i was going down a particularly long alley in the middle of my town i had my hoodie on it was late it was very dark and there was this lady who had like a shopping bag whatever i'm in the other way now i'm huge like i could probably fall on her and kill her and so um i already knew like oh my god i'm probably terrifying right now because like i've got the hoodie up i'm just being lumbering like and i was just like i'm just gonna walk by her and she clearly stood as far away as possible and tried to like avoid my area and i'm like i'm not gonna hate this fine then we move on like yeah there you go and um the funny part of the story was i was wearing a danger mouse t-shirt but the thing is danger hold up danger mouse if someone old ass cartoon yeah yeah if if someone okay if someone said like isn't that an injustice molla that she would have prejudiced and i'm like no like look at me i could fucking there's very reasonable chats that i it's everything would point to danger of the situation she was in best i can do is make her feel like i'm not gonna do anything i'm gonna put my hands up and stay against the wall i'm just gonna walk by her and it's not personal yeah it's fine and and if you know if she was like he didn't kill me i was wrong i just feel like it's okay it's probably now the next big horrible terrible person that she sees she's gonna get too close to and she's gonna get robbed and stabbed yeah and so if someone said like we got it we're not enforcing that stereotype exactly i do to get that fear entrenched but like yeah so like i would just be if someone said like you want to change that right like probably not actually it's probably a good thing that she sees that as a potential danger and that's fine with me um long man's scary her blood is on your hands well here's wash off the blood maybe the danger mouse maybe she doesn't know the context of it she's like danger mouse did say the words danger mouse on it or was it just a picture of danger mouse defeated her expectations that's true um but yeah you know just in in the category subject there's plenty of useful ones i was also gonna say that uh computer systems hinge on organization and categorization as well like literally if like if you take a file out of a certain folder you get a null reference in the system crash right like you like the whole thing needs to know where exactly everything is and i just find it interesting that there's like a parallel there like categorization isn't integral to us it's integral to machines as well a broken productive system system where that one still is fun yeah that's cool it's a misunderstanding of how people even look at these races anyway lots of people like people love orcs and a lot of people share on elves at the time absolutely like elves up with their own ass orcs are cool like that sort of thing yeah and it feels like sort of almost a fun chaos versus a lame order you could definitely go with with these two yeah and you just knew e up their ass i mean you picture that um the orc is just in a in a whole eaten meat and drinking mary with all of his different people like oh it's so fucking well the elf is like in a library reading yeah you can have a preference folks but just like in the real world bio essentialism present problems someone in chat said that rags is wrong about dogs charles bite more people pit bulls are physically the betta blah blah blah so i specifically said fatal dog bites which one's the most deadly um and yeah because because i used the study i used was dog bites org which did a 13 year study between 2005 and 2017 so between that time 433 americans were killed by fatal dog bites and pit bulls did 66 percent of those deaths though they're only 6.5 percent of the dog population population yeah so no i'm not kidding on realism can present problems in fiction as well specifically a moral one the idea that a sapient species can inherently tend towards good or evil acts or lawful or chaotic ones and that moral essentialism actually undercuts the greatest strength games can bring to storytelling the players so i guess so you can just make it so and it's the case it's a they're trying to really complicate this with the with the big well actually sort of thing and go into this long diatribe about things that nobody thinks about or cares about and are super irrelevant in every way it's actually quite simple you can decide if you want a race to be intrinsically evil who do evil things and that's all there is to it and normal people stop thinking about it at that point yeah the problem they're highlighting it's like this is less the fiction more the person if a person sees an orc and says oh my god i think that about black people feel like that person needs help okay yeah they do yeah i have news for you yeah if that's an opinion you have maybe don't share it and lord of the rings could have been lord of the rings could have had like another region and it was filled with orcs and they're all chill and normal they're just a little boisterous and they get involved in the big fight at the end because the enemy they're fighting are you know the shadow or something and they're all just monsters they're all creatures they're all snarling and stuff it's like see now the orcs are chill but i'd be like well wait are the shadow a problem are they do we need to sort out their motivation what are we doing like i don't know is this a problem still uh it's just ignoring this like need for a for a drone like enemy which can be easily justified in all kinds of narratives for all kinds of reasons but sometimes you don't know what the motivation behind it is entirely all the specifics and that's okay too because they're trying to kill our heroes and our heroes gonna fight back right yeah that's how they need to be like they've they serve that function in that story what orcs is that they're applying this like in a universal way like every game has to have this nuance when it does it depends on the player's playing or the dm right it's it's not it's not bad all the time yeah it's and the in the dm might say if you know in this world if you want to play as a certain thing like if you want to play as a goblin or some other typically non-selectable race they might say okay i'll let you do this but i sort of expect you to role play as one kind of in a way that's accurate to the universe or in the accurate to the world which is not an unreasonable concession to make so maybe that's the thing they want you to do you know i don't know but yeah this this this video in the whole they try to really over complicate it and they try to dig way too deep into something that just does not need it also that's trying to poison that guy because orcs are evil they open so many things in in this video but they don't answer anything properly and make like an eight minute video there's so much to explore and what they say and if they would do that they would probably realize how stupid this is but they don't they won't so here we are just to me i think the answer they want is that uh you have to have them be properly motivated by whatever environments they grow up in all that they don't have the will to they don't have a chance to choose they just don't have choice those are the two correct answers but uh if i'm a dm sell it to me sell me your idea and if it's good and i think you can do it go for it first own power to make meaningful interesting choices and judgments for their characters including moral ones so if i want i guess because we we sort of just skipped over it really quick the big thing they said was the the biggest strength of video games was allowing players to make moral choices um yeah that's and they just sort of asserted that in such a very almost casual way that we didn't even really talk about it wait also well it's don't need to have an evil race that has good qualities for players to have moral choices in their rpgs and they will top our that is that is correct yes um not every moral choice in a game relates to directly like the like the evil the orcs and lord of the rings are a great example they're like a delivery mechanism for all kinds of different other conflicts that will involve moral choices and charisma i'm still hung up on this claim that like one of the greatest strengths what what exactly well i was gonna say i think if we can roll back just a little bit if the seven of us were to answer that question what is the single greatest thing about video games i feel like we're all gonna have to actively fundamentally well yeah i was gonna say unless you get really broad uh we're probably gonna have answers that slightly differ in terms of just there's gonna be an overall sentiment of just what games offer intrinsically as a medium probably that's probably what we're gonna go with not like a bit to say the greatest what i was gonna say is like it wouldn't be like oh it's because they can offer such a such a horrifying experience to be into a thing specifically or they can offer such an entertaining and laughable one you get all it's about solving puzzles or like no specific or moral choices like no it's more the interactivity probably what people are gonna appeal to mm-hmm yeah it's the solving of challenge i think video games greatest strength is that they it gives it's problem challenges to overcome yeah it's problem solving yeah at its most fundamental video games have access to a mode of engagement the other mediums don't yeah that's just it yeah do you guys remember the thing do you remember do you remember that 3d tetris game that came out where they put in a story mode and the anthropomorphize the pieces and they're like an alien race or something and it's like dude we who asked for this who fucking cares i just want to play for this like the joy of like playing the old gameboy game is like you could just jump right into a fucking game where it's puzzles like not everything has to be up about orcs and fucking one bet one tribe of whatever against another like you know you can just have a very simple video game with like you know that's the whole premise of mass effect is that the reapers are evil this is not up for discussion that creates the central main conflict rags that sets up everything that you do i'm offended by you doing that because because it makes me think of black people like the reapers remind me of black people so the blacks want to reset the universe every 50 million years i've seen it and they come down in their pyramids and they destroy the pyramid ships yeah this is the funny thing like because one of the things i would sell is why somers so fantastic is the the moral questions it asks and the choices you have to make but if someone said like do you think that's the greatest thing gaming can offer i'd be like no i'd rather appeal to like an umbrella term because that comes under interactivity your um your input so yeah you're the one making the choices yeah weird it's like they're saying games their best trait is trying to make you think about your ethical systems like uh i mean they and i mean they certainly can do that but i feel like that's not the fundamental well imagine coming over from a nine till five and they're like time to play video games where i question my existence that's what i do at work for eight hours a day i don't need this in my video game actually undercuts the greatest strength games can bring to storytelling the players own power to make meaningful interesting games can bring to storytelling i still disagree like you can bring all kinds i still don't yeah i still don't know what would be the more fundamental uh thing the games can do the storytelling i mean if stories work i mean any meaningful meaningfully interactive story is going to be full of choices to some degree and not all choices that you make in fact the the vast majority of choices that you make both in video games and in real life have no moral component to them whatsoever so building my little layer in evil geniuses too isn't a moral one it's a efficiency one i'm like uh how do i best place a little and that's fucking super awesome and interesting for me or tetris there's not exactly a moral choice when you're trying to make the lines if someone was like yeah that's why that's why they're less meaningful the moral choice also like i'd be like i'll chill out like how much we value what we're doing in our games for choices you just put moral ones at the top some people be like i can't be asked to fucking decide if i want to kill one old person or one slightly younger person in this horrible game about like in sore or something like i want to just put blocks on the screen okay yeah and even when we talk about like grand theft auto uh how can i most efficiently rob and kill and destroy for the most amount of profit that's still not there's not even a moral component in that because none of this is real and it's not set up in terms of its morality it's it's a game where you're just having fun and trying to do stuff that you want the morality of that situation and those scenarios doesn't even enter into the equation as a caveat though i'm sure someone out there is like i play my gta games very morally he'd be like okay good for you i drive the speed limit i stop at all the lights fucking point dexter over here well it's like for such a game with such a narrative focus is gta like half the time i booted up gta it's just like okay i'm gonna see get to like five stars in like five minutes and just like just you know put in all the all weapons cheats and get the rocket launcher to start blowing up cars and like you're not even thinking about the characters or yeah you're not even thinking about the characters of the story just blowing shit up sometimes that's what a game's all about you know i use so many i use codes for vice city so much i still remember them in my head yeah yeah same that in uh san andreas what was was uh was was it circle square circle square up down left left was that for the tank in in uh grand theft of three or was that for the lightsaber and ratcheting clank three i can't remember damn there's the tank and then you could fly the tank you guys remember when features were available through codes that you could type yeah that was cool yeah i still remember it in my head our black l black left down right up left down down down which gave you and vice city a huge list because you couldn't have all weapons at once i don't think but there were like multiple cheats that gave you different huge sets of weapons and that was my favorite and so it would also like restore your ammo and give you more ammo for him too so we'd use that all the time and we just go crazy with them yeah there it is r1 uh r2 l1 l2 up down left right up down left right that's that sounds like oh yeah that was something in gta 3 yeah i remember yeah is that a good time that sounds like the konami code as well a b a bs at the end right or i'm i thinking is it different i don't know i can't remember if anybody here like yeah the konami code i forget it um i think that was in pixels as well which is really cringy hello i just watched that yesterday oh that was uh that was pretty yikes that movie what about the konami code oh wait impulse 101 is that quick oh my god i recognize impulse 101 oh man post 101 yeah or i have no idea what that is why do i recognize impulse 101 my first guess was quick but it could be something else come on chat help me out wait we could just google it no oh was it a half life oh was it a general command just do half life it up up down down left right left right b a start i'm pretty sure that's the konami that's the konami code yeah everyone's saying half life well it could be that change in momentum is equal to the applied force over the elapsed time but maybe that's not what you're talking about what was uh it was just god was one of the it was a god mode for quick i remember you type god into the console i think yeah god mode is probably i think unreal i remember that i know tournament good times feel old um it oh the birth of god mode is linked to the creation of doom in 1993 so the the concept of a god mode sheet was first conceived so yeah go all the way back to doom 1993 wait now some people are saying impulse is quake i can't understand you too confused impulse quake quake terminus oh well uh impulse 101 cheat code just see what if the first result is quake or not yeah it's like half life and yeah a lot of people said it was half life impulse 101 uh valve developer community urban dictionary maybe it was across more than just the one valve game i don't know yeah anyway let's go back to the video to make interesting choices and judgments for their characters including moral ones so if a game's creative choices apply a moral valuation to every member of an entire species before the players even meet them well now that's just taking that power away from the players no the player the player still has the power to act in whatever way they want okay so there's so much condensed into that like 10 seconds yeah so first off i have an i have a huge issue with the pictures that they use because it's so insanely misleading and it mischaracterizes sort of the whole point of what the their argument is here yeah um and then you have the concept of your robbing players of that choice as if a game isn't literally about restrictions well um scenario helms deep is if someone on helms deep was like you don't know that they're evil we should be the ones that it's like they're attacking us like i don't care if they're evil or good i really don't like and that's most if not all the scenarios and load the rings yeah the part where it gets flimpy and this is something we've talked about for potential sequel trilogy thing is when you start hunting them down to eradicate them like uh we might need to question just to make are we doing a strict good here and and that's where like a lot of this stuff might come in but when they're attacking your big-ass castle like i don't see how this invading i don't care if they're smiling like what but uh why even bring this up when the ip's so yeah go ahead for simplicity sake i put the images here that they use so let's take this first picture i i don't know if you put it up or not it's symbols you have the oh what i you have who i assume is the developer unless she's just that much of a slut you have the developer telling the player directly with the personification of a developer this is not an in-universe thing that they're telling us this is an out-of-universe title crawl style opening credits the developer is telling the player that this race is evil which is different than an in-universe you know thing this so this is this should be like the most assured way that you know that something is actually the way it is in a universe is these out-of-universe almost meta like descriptions of things that you say objective but they have they have the little what the little gooey boys they have them portrayed as like smiling and waving and friendly so like extra credits is trying to say the developer is wrong they're not actually evil yeah but how can the developer be wrong if the developer says that they're evil that can only mean that the developer is either lying to you which is not a good idea or two the developer is incompetent and they even though they want this race to be evil intrinsically they're not portraying them or their actions as such yeah if the text crawl said the evil goops are attacking your castle and then someone goes i'll decide if they're evil title crawl let me think about this well that kind of goes into the second image where you have the developer annoyed at the player or is like yeah i i guess sure but i'm just telling you but if you want to be that way i sure it's your it's your choice as a player to not believe me when i say they're evil and they even have the little gooey boy going he's he's he's glad to know that this player is going to personally decide whether or not they're intrinsically morally essentially evil it was like this this these two pictures just tell like so many different stories that are so confusing to the point that you're trying to give to the audience of this youtube video oh yeah it's kind of i would assume that these i assume that these gooey boys actually are evil and they're just trying to use their their their happy non-assuming forms to get you in closer so that they could devour you well so this is this is the question right it developers like hey you should have believed me when it told you huh you fire your arrows and yes all your weapons at these things that goes through them it doesn't do anything they just phase through the walls of helms deep and then they phase into humans and dissolve them horrifyingly but they're smiling and saying we the whole time and so you as the moral officer is like i don't know that they're evil this just might be what they do these images despite making basically no sense i think the point of them that they're trying to say is that it should be the player who decides these things not the developer who decides whether a race is evil or not even though that's literally their job but yeah so you make the fucking game then like instead of images this is so so confusing the easiest equivalent here would might be mario and these are goombas and the developers like you can stand on them well there is no message in that game that says goombas are like strictly evil right i don't think so they just they just die if they touch you yeah you don't if you stand still they will kill you if you stand on them they will die like hmm that's a question of autonomy i guess should you should you be allowed to stand in their way and should they be allowed to knock you out of their way i don't know uh yeah these are things this is what i mean this is not that game like if you said that to fucking nintendo you need to have a discussion about goombas they'd be like are you the fuck is wrong with you like i'm seeing a lot of allegory and goombas and yeah like i think that they've accidentally created a very good representation of the developer after being told i'll decide that that would be your face you'd be like um well yeah if i was a developer and i told the players that so these are the bad guys they're evil like there there's no moral components that they're evil you you kill them for points and you try to get as many points as possible and the player stubbornly says oh yeah well maybe they're not actually evil and maybe i can be friends with them and maybe they could come to my birthday party i'll just be annoyed well i'm just telling you okay just fine whatever it's funny because they're like i'll decide that it's like okay so if you're playing mario how do you decide that the coop is on evil do you just not play the game because you have a very short amount of experimentation will tell you that they're essentially evil in the game yes well because every time you don't know specifically whether or not they are what you would defy to be it's like i don't care they try to kill me like i don't understand why why we have to make it so complicated i'm trying to walk through this area and they are actively trying to hurt me i don't understand why i can't hurt them back to save myself people are very good at compartmentalizing what levels are games operating on like yes there's a tacit understanding that there are no moral questions in mario people aren't concerning themselves with that because it's not pertinent to the experience because that's yeah and then when it is raised people are much more easily able to shift gears and you know actually engage with that kind of thing in this theoretical rpg where you have to kill the gooey boys and they look like friends who knows the name persists mylon must be taking that power away from the place it should remain intern so they never had the power to begin with he just calls like the hell priests over to the fortress of doom he's just like come on let's just talk it out guys a couple beers we will figure this out i know you're not bad guys comes across as the naive character of the story that gets fucking killed like yeah um and he says that you're robbing that choice from the players as if it was there so no yes but also it wasn't really there to begin with the only context working is if the dm said you believe they are evil then you go yes well maybe i maybe i'm a little i'm different on this one in this world i see them differently yeah so yeah and if the dm tells you that they fucked up add form on the dm's part then i'm supposed to tell you how you feel yeah don't yeah the dm shouldn't tell you what you think unless you're been affected by like a spell or something you know yeah and barring extraneous circumstances yeah and then and then you say i think actually that they're good and i'm going to oh this happens in community um for you the only person i think you've seen it i'm not sure but um oh yeah is the fucking idiot in the group and she's like i walk up to the to the orcs and i want to say hello look whatever creatures and then like the dm is like they start attacking you she's like oh and then the part where i'm the guys uh where i've had was playing the the loyally barkeep who was like um and what she says she's like you you know i'm no better than a numb yes you are miss you are three race classes above me that's disgusting don't talk that way i'm so sorry madame please don't report me for execution yeah and she's like we really need to sort out this no problem they're all just like oh my god honestly it's it's like community is or that episode is a response to this video cash shape change on ducane what shape do you choose for him fat fat nobody else has got that reference but it's bloody hilarious it feels bad that me and freaking the only ones who want to start what the fuck's happening right now but don't worry just laugh and smile guys good you'd like it i swear extra credit is this an extra credit seems seem like post-modernist and uni basically pushing the idea that evil is subjective evil is subjective um i have i have some very important life lessons to give please do not use the word post-modernist you don't know what it means evil is subjective there's no intrinsic moral component to the universe i'm sorry if you thought that was the case just what a post-modernist would say probably don't even you probably couldn't even name a single post-modernist um well just just just just just tell me who the first modernist was in frank the what about dr ugan su shawlai i think he was on the recent cadel she's he's that's me hi she sent me hi a post-modernist probably yeah fucking both i was gonna i was gonna google him but i have no i can't fucking spell that so i guess i'm oh oh i can use the google voicing thing okay here we go okay me hi cheek sent me hi she sent me hi well yeah hi cheek sent me hi so i'm gonna i'm gonna explain i'm gonna post this guy's name that's his name yeah we we had a little episode on this but but because i i just to remind everyone because you know time passes yeah i'm gary an american psychologist of post philosophy modernism all right that's what it is post philosophy modernum said sounds like post modernist to me i do you think wait what to think that evil is subjective may be the most privileged shelter thing i've ever heard you're wrong buddy it's genuinely reverse yeah yeah um oh boy i don't even know what i've been to start with that one like it's just wrong makes things easier it's not hard to read it all as a european i don't even think that fellow hungarians even have a european i i hard to read this as a european fuck off if i would have read that without knowing it's be hi i was like oh it's be holy be holy oh my holly my holly six six uh six zents maha mahali that's if you're doing a sales call and he was next on your list you're like uh is the guy with the white hair oh hey is this is this mr c i wasn't about to say to make the same joke exactly what you know mc you do it like in uh the the evil dad real like is this you know what if you were hungarian it's probably easy to read there you go i i'm hungarian and i can't fucking read that shit i know my people might be ashamed of me no i don't know it i don't that's a real one hungarians aren't europeans i know all names are made up but that name is really made up that's just be rolling my face on my keyboard just like that's my name now fringy this name this name because you taught me this name is speculative fiction from the players and in turn if a group of orcs for instance doesn't even have a choice about their actions are they actually evil because look if a so this doesn't really this doesn't really change it wouldn't match at all actually if like are like are they evil when attacking hell's deep i'd be like i don't really care if these people are doing it by choice or not we have to fucking survive uh yeah it's not really relevant no they're right on the screen yeah if if you want to make this an overarching kind of story where maybe but you you would feel pity for them perhaps like i'm i feel pity for this race or this creature or this species these orcs i feel pity for these orcs that they don't even have the chance to choose good and that will lead to their destruction because we have to kill them in the same way that you would view an invasive species or some or poisonous spiders or i don't know right in a sense you could feel pity and empathy for them but that doesn't change what you're going to do to them really um so it it's also it's there's still no moral component there really you're still going to do the same thing so i don't really care that i don't really care that the fictional orcs don't have a choice if they're going to be good or evil like yeah who gives a fuck it might affect your in-game character to be like oh it's kind of a shit zombies are it depends on how you characterize them and what their their traits are um yeah like if if a zombie was self-aware to some degree like there was some shred of person who had left in them but they wasn't strong enough to override their desire to eat brains or whatever then you'd be like wow this is horrifying in a new way that there's part of a person still trapped in there and i feel so sorry for them i still have to shoot them in the head yes right uh so and it's just this is you have to wonder like where like if the line doesn't stop at um like fleshing out like every single character that you like a race of characters like where is the line drawn where you have to stop fleshing out things in your universe like they seem to be saying if you draw the line anywhere if your universe isn't thought out it in every facet in every like in all areas then it's like bad storytelling or game design like also your players are not they're not you're not obligated to tell your player everything about the world because one you might not fucking know it but two the characters would have no way of knowing that information anyway or the universe that they're in doesn't even have access to that information currently right you know um the bugs in Starship Troopers we would probably if we were in that universe casually consider let's consider them evil but like with the code of inspection if someone went you know like are they truly they seem to just be drones of a mother brain or some shit for a liner i'd be like i don't i don't care that much like because no they seem to exist to consume and destroy anything that isn't them so fuck them like uh yeah and if i called that evil and someone went that doesn't line up with your definition of evil you used 10 years ago to describe what i should be like it's because evil's not it's a little complicated like in terms of exactly how i define it we went over this in the beginning but he's about to say the fucking um the tornado versus the the person right so like a force of nature isn't described as evil it's just it just is and and i don't think pointing out that complication of category means that like now we can't have it because it's too the orcs can't be they have to be evil or not okay can't be that they because i think that's a commentary on like the drone aspect like dalek cybermen or bog they're not evil they are the way they are like the best potential you could get out of that for players is that some players might start to slightly think differently about the thing that they're doing anyway and the thing that they're doing isn't going to change now if you want to make it to where you have the aspect of well in this even kind of steers away from them being intrinsically evil but if you had a race that was like enslaved by some some sorcerer a spell had been cast on them or they'd been robbed of their ability to choose in whatever way that exists in your universe then you could make that a plot point of we have to stop this but because they're not trying to do it on purpose maybe we try to limit the amount of casualties we cause as much as possible and maybe that could be your moral component but if we have to we're going to kill them but i'm not going to feel bad about it because i have to defend myself there's things you could do with this idea none of which are probably going to be explored by this video so person say boys a house we call that evil because they chose to do so but if a tornado well okay no it's not necessarily why we call yeah that's not even it's it's it's not you're doing a bad job of talking about evil in a video about evil very kind of not good about coral conundrums yeah if if if they had to destroy your house or else the planet would explode they're not evil if they destroyed your house because they just fucking hate your guts in your family and they want to take your shit but yeah they're evil sure none of this is explored in your video about evil well it's like all he wanted to say was do we consider nature evil that's that's what he should have said and it's like typically and then he went even worse because he said hey if somebody destroyed your house it's like why did they do yeah yeah what's the story here yeah what you do and why you do it kind of important here remember we went over this with um elosas too people like if if someone killed your uh your father for example you would just want to fuck him up you wouldn't want to know why it's like i would totally want to know why i would be like why the fuck did you do this because i don't believe they did it for the right reason but there's a chance and besides it's unsatisfying to know why that like if they if you never find out it's just a missing puzzle piece we like to understand stuff you need one thing to know why is part of closure right adio destroys a house good someone said i think they're making a distinction between intentional destruction and an act of god situation we know they're just doing it bad they did it bad it's just terrible at it we know we know well i mean it's very clear what they're doing here oh no i got evil wind evil wind i have a lot of that's but if a tornado destroys a house well i mean is that's my fable no therefore if a game's world who changes their baby's diaper with the baby facing downwards freaks maybe the baby was being changed normally got up and fired evil people it turned around specifically so it could more efficiently fart in the face of its tear care take well baby's a dick baby babies can be real fucking dicks we all know this they vomit on things randomly wow thanks old building chooses to program every member of a species to destroy aren't they more like the tornado now if the players characters are able to well no but even if not like even if we agree to that that doesn't change fuck all if someone went like the orcs have no chance of being anything other than what they're doing doesn't that make you quit and i'm like no they're destroying our castle i don't care we have we have totally gone on a an entirely different like subject and tangent from the concept of a race that's evil intrinsically like we barely even explored that at all hopefully we will because we've barely talked about that at all this is a whole different thing that isn't that is somewhat related but it's not relevant enough to focus on to such a degree especially when you're running out of time you know for what it's worth this is like a very minor point but it's worth bringing up in the context of games usually in terms of your bog standard rpg like the quest text there will be a reason why you're going out to like go and kill this band of orcs or this group of slimes or whatever there is a reason you don't tend to just walk into them and oh well there we are and often times as well you walk across the road and it goes oh my god encounter slimes they've used splash attack and you lose health you're attacking me i'm going to attack you back now that's just the way i'm trying to think of maybe no i have to use diplomacy they might not be evil they might just be doing what slimes do they don't even understand the concept of language they know only how to feed you as a developer are doing a bad by making it so that things are programmed this way are they supposed to like parley like the slimes walk up and you know you shake their hand and then your hand gets sucked in and dissolved and they're like and you're on the other hand if you don't give us your gold and it's like oh well we're back to the other we're back to the art of the gooey boys where you have the player just making a choice to be good when the developer explicitly told you that they are evil like you can't do this you have to this is not the point you're trying to make you're you're being dishonest here with your with your illustration and what your what idea you're trying to get across we're talking about things being intrinsically evil and how that relates to game design and writing sort of you know we need to see the next slide where there's just a pile of bones on the floor and the slimes are again happy because you should have listened to the developer when they explicitly went out of their way to tell you that this race is evil i guess uh actually so like the the fundamental point is that it is better if you have choices which i don't think is i don't think you can say that it's like that it's fundamentally good game design to give people more choices i mean isn't like one of the biggest problem with a lot of games now that's like play it your way you can do whatever you want and also that means like all of the mechanics are really shallow and the story stops making sense because there's only so much that we can write um we went over this with the mark brown effect where he was like what's so good about movement is all of the freedom it gives you it's like it's actually the opposite it's really well like limited limitations yeah well i think it's just fundamentally it's like what is what is i always defaults with this like what is thief about it's about stealing things can i fight people it's like you can try but it's not going to work out for you and you might go well that's bad game design i should be allowed to choose to kill people it's like no you cat you're a thief like it's just not you're not capable of doing this the whole point of the game is yeah it is like challenges are central you you require challenge requires restriction because you don't have any restrictions there's no challenge if you could just walk through the wall and grab it without any effort or any issue and there's no amount of challenge or puzzle solving involved that's only a game in the most basic and useless sense of the term it's not a game in a meaningful way by limiting what the players do that can be good it can be bad but it can be good as well it sets up what the challenge actually is not everything has to be a moral choice there's no reason that good writing me oh they haven't even defined what that is by the way but like just because everything isn't a moral choice that doesn't mean it's worse that would be fucking taxing on your brain if everything was a fucking moral decision you had to weigh up and make in your brain it turned you into a fucking nihilist because you get sick of this shit you just couldn't deal with it and if like another I guess example would be on one game they're like it's a game where you talk to one person and you're like okay this game you can talk to thousands like don't you want more freedom I'll go with the thousands and they all just do the variation of hello like five different hellos and then the first one was like a full conversation that goes in all kinds of branching routes like oh it turns out the more restricted one quote unquote was the more in-depth one because games are that offer you a specific kind of experience that has been cultivated in a particular way generally designed to be experienced in a particular way or set of ways in the case of games builds they are designed under restrictions with a certain directionality to them such that they are meant to be experienced in a certain way not with complete freedom freedom can in fact and often will be a part of that but it's not fundamental to it right especially when we're talking about a tabletop role-playing game where some guy has slaved away for so long doing all this effort to create this world for you to you know go around and stuff and maybe he just wants to say you know what the slimes are evil they're not even like thinking yeah they don't even have like is they're just evil they want to kill you and they want to consume and feed they have no sense of morality they're just evil and they're done finished now I'm moving on to things that are more meaningful I need to know their entire history and their society um this reminds me of as well what you just said about the like the work that dm's put in um in the community episode there's this guy who's trying to like poke holes in the dm's world and he's like can I can I walk like that basically he says you started a bridge you have to you have to cross the bridge you have to use you know what's available with your characters to figure out how you're gonna get across this bridge that's not like just a little bit rickety or whatever and the guy's like how about we just go backwards and he's like does your will just not exist in backwards and then the dm pulls out this huge like set of papers and he's like you can go backwards if you want to yeah there's there's sort of there's a lot of sort of unspoken rules and one of them is try not to break this world that the dm a a single person is trying to make for you he's trying to play within its boundaries please kind of a dick move if the if the dm comes with a story prepared and then youth players make every attempt to actively ignore it like it's outside of character yeah there's there's this this give and take on both sides where I've created a general story for you to follow or a general area for you to be in and the players are like okay we can't do everything we want probably because you're only one person but we can do enough to where it feels like we have a lot of freedom within the confines that we actually have um a lot of people and if you want to do something tell them in advance so they can prepare for it a lot of people taking issue with you saying slimes are evil I assume what you meant when you said it is that it's the dm translating to you they are the bad guys they're going to try and kill you okay because they're saying like do the slimes don't typically have a moral system to be able to choose with so can they really be categorized as evil doesn't matter they're fucking evil kill them yeah I mean like the weird thinking this like really stop over thinking there's no moral quandary in this and what if these jelly monsters were devouring babies and drinking the blood of children I'm I don't think this player would be walking up to them in the same way and going hey these are the good guys I choose that you are why are you doing this guys a good race and jelly people eating babies well like surely that's negotiated by what the the race does imagine like um are they doing bad things like like if there was just choose that fungusy goo that just grows in this cavern and once it's big enough it just moves around until it like towards sources of things to dissolve and consume for energy there's no smile there's no anything it's just this goo and it's like if someone said you know like we fucking dissolve it with our you know anti-goo guns whenever we see it if someone was like you don't even know if they're good or evil I was like what are you talking about rags what if the dm sucks in his world is poo poo so the dm though in a different sense is still a player and yeah even if the world is shit and it sucks there is a level of understanding that not every people need to practice what they do and he's doing a difficult job and if and he's bad at it and he's agreed to do this for you so there's a sort of an understanding that you don't you're not going to be an asshole about it you're not going to be directly confrontational to him or antagonistic there are ways to explain to dms that the world's broken like fundamentally in ways that you know so that you can't quite ignore these are also things that you don't have to bring up in game if you can help it but yeah you you still don't want to be antagonistically attempting to break the person's world even if it's really bad and then the dm sucks because he's still a player at the table i would think most dms you have to most dms want to know that stuff right like they would be interested because they they have fun with that i i think most of them do like they do they do DMing because they like that like designing the world and then figuring out how it works and surely like they would want like oh yeah i guess that doesn't work i'll fix that like yeah if you tell it to you have fun with that yeah if you said last session you said this thing about this you know group area whatever it is and this week you're saying this thing there are ways to say that that don't involve you're such a shitty fucking dm we can't trust anything you say last week you let us on this one adventure and now we're doing something completely contradictory to it why are you wasting our time there are ways to explain to them that there's a little like hey you know just by the way and it maybe it's just as simple as oh yeah you're right i forgot you know carry on you're right yeah they don't give a shit yeah that's a problem it's like this is terrible dude how long do you work on this practice sounding like a lefty here what okay okay that's the weird thing with the dm stuff i'll assume i'll assume you should be a dick to somebody when they've tried really hard you should have lefty for you okay lefty position you can't get get out of that political lands alright when you're in a tabletop role-playing situation it's a collaborative effort it's the dm is also a player that's facilitating the whole experience so i don't think dm an asshole to him is the the best right yeah especially when he's the god of the universe and he's around with you you don't want to create that antagonistic like i hate the idea of players versus gm some people like it but i like the idea that the there's not that you know that competitive us first you know you aspect in it um but uh we have actually i don't the brandy bills in the chat he said i can tell you this much from dming experience rags sure isn't a theocrat no yeah there's a glad to see you bill hello hello rags a dm i hey one of these days it's on my list it's on my list of things to do i mean i want to run a path yeah on your on your list of things you want to achieve in life you know family kids dungeon master no that's a lame just video games video games no i i i was saying that it's just it's fuck you ruined my joke oh i'm sorry i'm sorry no no no no rags wrote the joke your joke is like a your joke is like a broken world by a dm yeah yeah whatever moral choices but an entire class of npcs is inherently evil regardless of their choice then the game is either telling the player that moral choices don't matter or it's simply what oh fuck oh moral choices don't matter no oh my goodness so that's not that's not the same category all right let's take uh mass effect is such a great example to use for this that it baffles the mind remember bio was good so the reapers are evil they're the bad guys they want to destroy the galaxy essentially they have to be stopped there's no real moral component to this it's pretty cut and dry they are the antagon the main antagonistic force and most of their cronies are the exact same way they're essentially robot zombies all of the think of all the moral choices you make in mass effect and how none of them necessarily directly relate to how you interact with the reapers in that confrontational sense it's between different characters and different civilizations and a lot of interpersonal dialogue between the party members and things of that nature so to say that you're telling the players that moral choices don't matter is just it's so it's taking a tiny what fio help me out here what's the what's the is it the the the logical fallacy where you take a like a tiny thing and you blow it up is it from do you know what it's called i i'm kind of drawing a blank here the the categorization fallacy someone got the i don't know if he was even here um well i think you left me hanging that's all right it's all good bro point still stands yeah he's not there um i think that's all right he's it's all good here it's like you know it great no it's not too absurd too absurdity whatever one right compositional fallacy i think that's what it is um thank you chat um but yeah the idea that you're you're telling players that moral choices don't matter because this thing that you decided wasn't like a moral choice to be made is ridiculous a player was being dumb this is the naive character in movies that gets eaten by the first monster because they they just tried to you know that that's what that character is and now they're going to be slowly digested over thousands of years i can't believe the slime full of skeletons and bones ate me i thought it was a good thing but he told you specifically that this thing was evil what if there was a huge explanation civilizationally for all of this but the story doesn't go over it's not that important like does because this person's like no i will decide if they are evil from the information presented and all i have so far is that they exist therefore i don't believe they are you oh no they ate me wow that's bio essentialism like you have no idea what it is that's like that movie grizzly man for the guy gets fucking eaten by the bear like he thinks he's like one of the bears yeah i remember that guy it's a documentary Werner Herzog and like he thinks he's like one of the bears and he hangs out with them until one day one of them gets too fucking hungry and and it's sad sad ending wait wait do they have that like on footage that happening or do they just describe it well there's an audio tape of the death supposedly and it might have been destroyed or maybe like the the the wife of the guy still has it but only Werner Herzog listened to it you see him in the movie listening to the audio tape you don't hear what's on the tape you just see him with the headphones and you're just like oh shit that can't be good yeah and uh yeah just made me think of that that storyline like you you try and embrace nature and it just eats you i like that part in the documentary when when the guy when one of the pilots just said he was dumb for thinking he could be one with the bears oh yeah the pilot the tragic aspect was that he he didn't die alone he had his girlfriend with him when he got eaten by a rampaging grizzly or some shit wait did she ride see it in runway or she didn't yeah or or he tried to he tried to tell her to run but i think yeah the it was really fucking hmm i'm trying to remember what happened i remember the guy was being dragged by the bear the audio as i'm looking at this image on screen here my brain is like melting because i've got so many thoughts coming to me all at once like extra credits made a video i remember because i've seen this one where they were talking about hey when you're like learning to make a game like start with something small and i mean you can extrapolate it broadly to the idea of you know your game you need to make certain decisions about what isn't isn't isn't going to be a part of your story or your game or whatever it is you're working on um oh fuck it's gone i lost it god damn it it was it was it was it was something worthwhile too um oh um when you're making a game like for instance mass effect and you have the reapers who are evil and that game can't function the way that it does if every interaction with a person when they're talking about the reapers shepard has the choice of maybe the reapers have a point um maybe we should stop doing what we're doing and end this mission and let the reapers kill us all like the game can't function if you give people that option there needs to be some sort of binding narrative thread that can't be changed that propels you forward and generally that means that you're going to have to settle on certain statements of like this is what we're doing these are the bad guys we have to stop them um and then you can go even further than that i'm willing to bet that extra credits really likes the last of us two now in the last of us two that's a game that's trying to present you with a conflict where there's meant to be a gray area where the difference between the good guys and the bad guys is a lot more complicated however that game does not give you the choice not to kill the enemies that they tell you that you have to kill to progress yeah so like if you're playing that game and you're ellie and you see i don't know the the wolves or whatever whatever they were called you aren't presented with the button of how about we turn around and go home and not kill these people because they're just survivors like us getting along doing their own thing you don't get that choice despite the fact that the game tells you that there is moral gray area when it comes to killing these people but you don't get that choice does not mean there's also when when the guy is the only enemy left you know you know the the kill them all sections or you can stealth them but and you decide to kill them all yeah and there's this one survivor that is begging to not be killed and you have the you can try not to kill them but they usually have a gun hidden away and they try to kill you anyway so so fuck off game we're like we're there's no nuance and well i guess we're everyone's trying to kill me anyway right it's like fuck off well i guess the only reason i'm bringing it up is because whether or not the game tells you that you can make a decision whether or not the people you're fighting a good or bad usually you don't have a choice on whether or not you still have to kill them to progress um but that but the problem is that there there is no way that you can make this game this game can't exist just until we got like a computer that can make this kind of video game that can do this it's not possible certainly a certain amount of things that a game can possibly account for yeah i think i think pio you're you are the one who said it uh if correct me if i'm wrong like if they wanted the game like that it would have to be more uh linear than the game that's that already came out yeah like if they wanted that sort of ambiguity shit they want to tackle last year yeah yeah if my i just brought that up because even they're you're trying for the ambiguity part but everyone in the universe is an unrelenting asshole so i don't know man and we're gonna go for our ambiguity but also we have the video game enemy that we'll try yeah and then it will fall over and go into a no please don't kill me state and then get back up and start shooting at you again yeah i don't know yeah well this is the ludonarrative dissonance thing right where the your objective is a player and the objective of the character you are playing in the story are not an alignment and that's in a lot of games and you know you you take it or leave it but uh there's there's games like doom where that isn't a problem like the players objective and doom guys objective are exactly the same and that's one of the reasons i think that franchise works so well yeah very simple kill all things on the screen that's what doom guy's thinking that's what you're thinking there's a there's a strong harmony there it understands that doesn't need to do or focus on much doom eternal got a bit too caught up in its story and lore stuff but on the whole all of the games they understand very clearly you don't particularly care about the story you don't particularly care about the world you don't particularly care about really anything or any potential moral quandaries of whether the demons are right or whether hayden is right you are here for the gameplay which is killing demons right yeah they it's it's pretty pretty clear though if you want to put a bunch of story stuff in your doom game it will be valid for criticism so yeah and the the last of us is definitely has a problem with that because ellie is thinking like oh how do i navigate this what's the morality of killing people on the way to whatever and you as a player thinking run along the edges and mash triangle kill everything along the way as a player your only option if you want to try and buy into the game's moral ambiguity narrative is to just reject the fiction in its entirety and stop playing which is right yeah which means it's fundamentally broken on that level do you like spec ops the line or do you not uh i have mixed feelings on it and it's been a long time since i last spoke about it or saw anything about it so i'm not sure curious because that that's kind of it's almost like a lot of people say that that's what that game is about right you could you can stop this by just disengaging from the game but then it's like but i want to play it so but then the game if i'm not mistaken the game does also give you a lot of means to handle situations that could go bad in you know unintuitive but different manners like i seem to recall there's a huge crowd massing and you can just start shooting you start shooting into the air then the same thing happens well i was really happy with that moment yeah that's yeah that gameplay is really clunky i find it a very frustrating game to play not too frustrating it's kind of like 50 cent blood on the sand where it's like just just playable you can like get through it and not fall asleep or but like uh what that what spec ops does at the end is amazing like i've never seen a game do that like and i'll always remember the game for that like no another game has done that for me all right good video game adaptation of half darkness right edge between the player's morality and the morality that applies to the rest of the world blocking the player from further becoming a part of it there's plenty of things you're blocked out of doing in all kinds of games because they're not about that yeah games games block you out of being able to scratch the bottom of your foot is that a problem morally yeah i can't take a shit in your game like i can't be friends with this one species that the game developer has designed to specifically be a combat challenge for me well fuck this world or is like you like how do you enjoy games ever it's like also i want to like good luck rationalizing that as your character when every single time you run into these things it's them running at you to attack you yeah it's bizarre and this plays to just everything there's a game as some people have referenced in chat already called aux must die it's a tower defense game where aux attack you uh is anybody actually being like aux must die would be way better if you could choose which team you could be on and you could you could talk to each of these features like what do you it's a tower defense game they're not what are you doing yeah like games are about moral choices okay that's what that's what they're good at oh yeah all games statement for imagine imagine saying that what i'm looking for don't do 40k you don't want to Jesus Christ there we go it was inevitable i'll just let him talk about the 40k part because that looks interesting well we were saying something else so should we carry on now i'm just gonna say that imagine that what you're looking for in a video game is being challenged morally and not having fun with a game what the fuck kind of shit is that look for that in some experiences not all of them i mean i feel like it's more applicable but i'm not going for a game for that yeah three can morally challenge you pretty effectively and that's one of the game's biggest strengths i'd say this is the thing this is all over something like soma and if someone said like that needs to be in doom and similarly dooms gameplay needs to be in soma i'd be like you guys need to chill like developers are people working with limited time and resources and they need to focus around what they are trying to do not accounting for every bullshit whim of a player yeah exactly not to mention dare i say tone like a kid's game of mario it's just like should you execute all goombas in the mushroom kingdom yes or no and it has a thinking place and you're like i don't uh it's not the focus it's got nothing to do with the experience it makes me wonder if there are games that extra credits has recommended in the past even though it does exactly the opposite of this and it presents enemies as clearly being evil that you have to kill and overcome as you know challenges and yet mentioned um last was too was probably recommended by them i would imagine fucking probably that's a game it's all about like the specific the complications of morality and stuff but it's as generic as it comes for a gameplay with enemies to shoot isn't like you come across the the girl playing the psp and you like get into a situation it's like a cutscene we don't you don't have to kill it but then she like tries to attack and just kill her anyway and you're like oh yeah yeah it just tells players kill them all pretty much yeah i'm very well equipped to talk to tackle its subject matter that's where i think the criticism should come in when you have doom what do you mean doom never had a moment of like you know one of the demons like do they do they watch tv do they like yeah what if they were just conscripted against their will in this demonic army and they don't really want to be here on earth burning people but you know it's it's it's you know it wasn't one of the stories and do just oh they they they got my rabbit and i'm going to kill them or something yeah i'm gonna kill them i was like john wick becoming a part of it for instance in warhammer 40k this inconsistency is central to the imperium of man's film the screen individuals human choices make them good or evil whereas aliens are created evil and of course games workshop made that choice to wait are you saying that the imperium of man isn't a a totally sound organization that is entirely rational in every way i never played hold on let me go find the quote because the imperium of man is described described as the most bloody regime imaginable yeah it's bad they're not the good guys let's say that they misunderstood warhammer this is the point and point warhammer and i have no clue but warhammer this that everyone is pretty much like everyone piece of shit yeah there's nothing good coming everything good already happened that's the funniest way to describe like a dystopia ever everything good happened already we're all out of good it's all down i feel like if the if the people i i believe the developer lady when she points to the necrons and say all of them are evil i probably yeah i'd believe her i'm like a really fun universe for how groovy it is i wonder if he even actually knows the necrons law or just using them so all of them even i'm like all the all the species and races are like at war with all of each other it was just like a constant war against whatever the fuck everyone's at war with everyone all the time yeah that's fun we'll have a 40k sounds pretty cool actually it's fun it's very silly it's great i i really like the universe i have no clue about it but when i played the game it's like yay spaceporty oh spaceporty look awesome that's such a cool design oh yeah add a friend who had a dedicated table and collected the models and hand-painted the ball and it was fucking huge and i was like that looks so cool but i think it looked like a very tedious game i don't know yeah probably you ask if it was problematic when i was younger i wanted to get into war hammer and then i saw the price it's like i can't afford this as a child this is possible oh dude the amount of money that guy spent it's fucking crazy all those models and paint and supplies and stuff i don't even think the necrons are capable of compassion it's not even something they can do it's not even a thing normal necron warriors i can't really generate any kind of like arguments here because i just have no context for what the necrons even are i just know that their name makes them sound pretty evil well they are pretty evil well before they got updated a while back to become space tomb kings from warhammer fantasy if anyone knows warhammer fantasy any better i don't love it tomb kids i only know it from the total war war hammer games i love those those are fun they're essentially space grumpy all egyptians who have just left and want their land back they want all the kids off their lawn and all of these drone people like the people you see pictured they're probably mindless yeah and so in this case if someone was to tell me you shouldn't describe them as evil because that's not quite correct like in in terms of the specifics that i should be like no no no it just it gives you an idea they are irredeemable they're going to attack you you got to stop them first like whether or not the piece was never an option if so yeah but they're not ultimately peace was never an option and if so with the no more you're on the hurricane i'd be like i'd want to stop a hurricane too like i told the kids i am not pro hurricane hot take and again this bears repeating the imperium of man are not a good guys nobody's the good guys okay developer that's problematic saying that all of humanity is bad yeah your side's evil but it's your side so you know these are the cards you've been dealt facilitate a war game where lethal violence is the only option but then folks also saw that in the 40k novels and rpgs which required more interesting narrative complexities imperial heroes have to grapple with and recognize the so that could actually happen between iterations of so for example like um if star wars did the whole stormtroopers are all individuals who don't necessarily have to fucking balls to actually explore that which they don't and if someone said that makes a new hope looks so much worse or something like that like no no it doesn't like it's a war like what are they going to do just laid out a die because they feel bad about that was a valid military target like yeah this this is something that happens and then if you want a new context where they're getting hunted down and you find out there's loads of fin like stormtroopers that are like the republic never had the right ideas and that i wanted to fight against them but i hated you know all drawn and all those sorts of things and uh now i hate that i'm being exterminated because i disagree with them politically or whatever and just like oh you could have that story it doesn't change fucking i'm assuming that's the point they're making here is that in one instance of warhammer it was x and in another instance you see them in a slightly different way or whatever like you're trying to be more complex but i i just don't know how much i trust the writing of warhammer novels oh i was gonna say i don't even know how much i trust they're more complex but they come out to be worse i don't think that's even correct i don't actually believe him yeah that's also a component i don't trust the you know i don't trust this friends to read these things and uh that's not what i hear i'm well you know we never know lying out of his ass right now your current year games workshop you never know maybe you know maybe everyone else was actually good and the humans were the only truly evil people and everyone else was just yeah it's fucking bullshit these are called sisters of battle or sisters of war or something and they burn people regularly yeah they're jealous of people things oh my they just burn people so they just burn people nice the logic of that creed based on their own experience okay but now you might be asking what if you're playing the kind of game where you're engaging in violence because it's exciting and fun not because of its moral dimension oh my god with a meaningful choice exactly exactly rather than ethics maybe the goal is to take moral calculus out of the problem sure one solution might be saying all orcs are evil go ahead and shoot them but in that situation as soon as someone inadvertently feels some empathy as people often do for anything well that's their fucking mistake isn't it i don't see how this goes any further than like we're all playing you know whatever mario whatever and i'm just sitting there and i go maybe the goombas aren't so bad you guys would just be like yeah whatever anyway i mean yeah you can test your theory over there by yourself operating on a moral level just contemplating is even worse he's like oh there's a marauding band of orcs and after killing them for xp one of your party members goes oh maybe all orcs aren't bad what the fuck is up with that it's so weird these situations and it almost seems like he's going the way of like as soon as someone has that thought you know it's over it's like what do you mean that made me think of uh metal gear solid four where you fight the bosses and then you get the backstory out there it's like well i don't care now just to be more dumb as well like it's not handled it's handled with all the grace of a hammer you can be grateful with a ham maybe okay sure don't leave it when i see it feel some empathy as people often do for anything seeming even vaguely alive the easy answer becomes less easy no this is a failure on the idiot player who decided that insane i question the morality of anything vaguely alive no no that's not true at all you know those creatures that embed themselves like ant brains and make them commit suicide or whatever it's like they're living doesn't mean i feel like cancer is living i don't know this is weird stop playing a video game because like oh maybe those people i have to kill aren't that bad i'm not gonna play this anymore it's like oh okay like imagine this asshole playing a jrpg and every random encounter he's traumatized like oh no oh no he has a fatherly like shut the fuck oh my god i'm i'm right it just it just gets in the way like they're saying like it's bad game designed to not flesh out your evil characters and i'm playing doom i keep bringing up doom i know but like it's just such a good example right if i'm killing enemies in doom and the satisfaction i get from that game is the gunplay getting glory kills watching the fucking an alien or demon get its head chopped off yeah i like if i'm thinking like oh like what's how's this how's this demon gonna feel about me shooting like that gets in the way of that pleasure so that is by definition not good game design so this fucking stupid theory doesn't work i would say like that that's a perfectly valid way the game could have been made but it wasn't made that way yeah but that's a different game yeah the one we're playing yeah not account for those concerns the the extra credits guy saying that we should account for players that might have this triggering moment and i'm like fuck off i just want to play fucking video games get out of my house oh my god holy shit if you yeah if you want to play a game where everyone is morally ambiguous and you constantly have to make alliances and you know test your luck with trusting people and making these moral choices play that game just don't make that into games where it doesn't make sense i find games where that experience is on offer don't go to games where that experience isn't on offer and criticize them for not offering the same thing as the thing you want it's no this is what they do they poison everything they touch and they try to turn it into something that they approve of you're so already a game like what mostly happens when they start toying with the whole thing like oh maybe he just killed a real person they had a family like it's like tomb writer like the the most stupid thing was like there's like the one scene it's like oh should i kill someone no no and then after it was the enemies and no one cares like oh that doesn't help but yeah games are terrible generally accounting for things like that with the mechanics it's like okay i think i'm gonna do the trick right the um the edits you make right you have it be that she killed that one she's utterly shocked by us like so the whole game is gonna have to be she either kills very little people in very specific circumstances or there's just nobody really around so what are we doing and it's like well no there's gonna be plenty of enemies to kill so we need to not have the scene we just had like we have to get rid of it now like the get the mechanics are almost dictating parts of the story which i think is that's how it works yeah they have to they will dictate to each other the story should dictate mechanics that need to be present mechanics need to dictate things that can and cannot happen story wise oh there's a great example of a game like that where you uh ghost of sushima you can't do a stealth kill immediately even though there are so many opportunities to do so until the player plays through the mission where he's taught how to do it it's a it's a great game that's that that doesn't give a fuck that the mongols are evil so so yeah you could you could just kill everyone in that fucking game well that's problematic operating on a moral stratum they are opposed to me like then my faction so i will oppose them that's problematic that's problematic cool you know i remember there was a time when problematic when i entered it into like microsoft word there would be a red underline i'm not even sure the problematic was a word until recently problematic i don't know i i actually i'm pretty sure that it wasn't and that it was added recently maybe i'm totally wrong but google uh yeah word used to underline that red um exist you know it used to do that for lull as well now it's it's not red it might be i don't know the easy answer becomes less easy and if the goal of your game is to stop ways from engaging in moral debates and just fight some bad guys you kind of got to say something more reliable than oh it's fine they were all born this way what do you mean why don't why don't no you don't at all what is people in the universe don't understand them what if they literally like they just do this shit we don't know but we got to kill them to make sure they don't kill us yeah what is your responsibility to say you know what the groogs on screen they're actually very complex in terms of how they work because this is the logic of the daleks i guess right like we before the daleks were explained because there's like an episode that's all about their history they were just things that fucking kill everything we got to stop them simple as that and that's how a lot of these things start out until you're like what else can we do with these now it's like i don't know i guess we could talk about their history like and try and see where they go next because their um their use as a one time one episode one week one game enemy is kind of like done now so what else do we do but like the idea that we start out with that is immoral or something because you have to explain where they came from i was like shut the fuck up what are you talking about yeah yeah just look at predator like look what they did to this fucking predators imagine trying to apply this to a like a lovecraft instead okay this is how you get tetris story mode imagine playing polypthulu and you have to explain to all the players all the motivations and the backstories and the reasoning for all for why all these otherworldly creatures behave and think in the way that they do so you could really understand them as complex and sophisticated entities and there's no mystery there we're just going to destroy an entire genre for our morals we can't be having like this hideous like barely understandable creature with all the tentacles and eyes and stuff and it's just ripping through civilizations as it consumes planets or whatever you're like well well what does it think about you know like abortion and pretty much every example of this exists they're attacking you they initiate the conflict in like 90% of instances where there is an evil enemy faction and it's part of what i find so fascinating that if the reveal would would be something like that's just what it does this hideous creature just moves through the universe consuming planets whatever we don't understand who made it or why or why how it came to exist that way it's just like that's it's this is an entity we have to fucking deal with it that these people like no you have to write a history actually insane tell me what the history of the tornado is i don't want to feel mad about it right it's like a fundamental misunderstanding about people consume media but there's you guys you get a game like final fantasy 10 right which is about a big whale that fucking eats everything but there's an actual like it eventually gets into exactly what it is and why it's there because that stuff's actually relevant to that story in that game right if it's not relevant don't have it in there if it is then have it there like doesn't always have to be the case what's funny by the way as well as someone just mentioned um our dutch felt bad at the end of predator above all this is like funnily enough in predator once he's uh fucked him up with the trap he picks up a big rock to smoosh his face and he sees the predator spit up blood and just basically be defeated and so he puts the rock down yeah and someone said you see he's he's understanding that it's more complex than just kill and it's like well no it's he's not killing him anymore right you have to you know it's just a simple and every and after that scene right the predator smiles and he activates self destruct mode i don't know if that's like an understanding like i don't know man um well there's room to argue that the predator gave him enough time to escape as a form of respect you could you could say that but uh okay but it's still important to reference like just because they may be more complex doesn't mean you shouldn't treat them with we need to kill them before they kill us simple as that yeah like no that's rude yeah self the the idea of self defense is quite universal i'd say so it's a really good motivation for why you need to enact violence against something else maybe these people are so sheltered that they couldn't even think of that concept is that a possibility maybe i mean i i think there are a bunch of lefties over there so the idea of self defense maybe it's just not something you're too keen on yeah i just remember this is an off tangent a story but i i have this friend who's from germany also and she she visited here and she tried an mma class and the instructor told her to put her guard up and she was laughing during the exercise and then and the instructor was like trying to punch her and she didn't punch her all the way like solidly because she wasn't holding her guard up and i immediately thought she didn't and she was laughing because she couldn't contemplate the situation where she had to be on the defense or protect herself that's what i thought so i i don't know it's kind of like this naive idea that people that they're just bad people and i think that's that's kind of related to the cartoons now and oh this is a this is off tangent like like in steven university just forgives the bad guys even though they do really bad shit and they they're not really showing how they get redeemed or in shira the evil girl is just misunderstood and she just needed to to have that push or some shit i don't think these people understand they're like evil shit there's evil shit in the world i don't know man it's just an off tangent rent i had a a guy dm me one time and he was arguing to me that good and evil were just labels and uh i was just thinking dude like can you imagine if everybody thought that like what how fucking horrific the world would be well in the sense right i mean everything's labels but they're not just labels yeah there's a lot of sure i mean i mean they they are you use them to categorize behavior but like yeah exactly they're not just labels they do actually mean something if i think he was implying that they were like meaningless yeah you can just decide what's good and evil if there was a civilization that was entirely okay with like every time every two children whenever they reach 10 one of them has to consume the other like that's an important part of this civilization we'll be like your fucking civilization is evil they'd be like right no uh because from our point of view it's nice like oh yeah no i understand the whole label point of view blah blah blah but like i would i know that i don't have to convince much of anything for anybody in our current society that that is evil like it appealing to like the sort of inter subjective understanding of what we're referring to when we say evil like it's it's just reprehensible bullshit um and we kind of consider that for these creepy alien green things that are going to come and eat all of our all of our people and destroy all of our buildings like oh they're just straight up evil yeah yeah fortunately the real sorry one more thing i was just thinking too like if you're gonna make if you're gonna say that morality is so integral to game design then i would think that superior game design would be exploring that good and that evil to like the maximum extent that the hardware allows i guess and but how evil do you go and then you get a game like hatred that comes out i don't know if you heard you've heard of that but like you basically play as a shooter a mass shooter yeah the gameplay is shooting innocent people like and everybody got triggered and said the game should be banned or whatever not everybody but you know a lot of people there was a big yeah buzz around it like how how far do you let go like if you're gonna make morality key to the whole fucking game theory thing like how bad is how how bad should you go in a video game yeah and they made it clear that if you have if you're a nazi you need to be stopped like not even yeah um as i was that uh bro there's a lot of civil civilizations where they're fine with eating each other's hearts and killing children on altars for sun gods like yeah i don't really have much trouble labeling that evil myself like it's just i don't know if anyone's different on that but i'll just be like oh a civilization built on killing children once they reach a certain age to sacrifice to a sun god i'd be like you guys have issues yeah that's like cultural relativism right where you just like that oh they're doing that's just the way they do things that's fine it's like well maybe it's a bad way of doing things maybe across the line maybe i don't agree with that shit let me show you they shouldn't be sacrificing children like can we agree on that yeah i'm not a big fan of sacrificing children i reckon you should let them grow up yeah i'm gonna make a i'm gonna run for the president on that on that policy as a child or later i'm already i lost my chance to run as a child unfortunately but i i am i'm like once a child begins to understand the joys of the world you fucking kill it the second they realize the world isn't as great as they thought it's like kill them kill them before they realize let them let them stay pure worlds made progress on this problem because sometimes in this day and age people actually bear visual signifiers which say i'm evil not because of where i was born but because i feel like i need to go back so i can get the how we segwayed into this whole topic here let me let me pull this back just a little bit okay here we go problem because sometimes in this day and age oh wait we should probably go feel back on that i think yeah i go back to like for the 45 you kind of gotta say something more reliable than oh it's fine they were all born this way fortunately the real world's made progress on this problem because sometimes in this day and age people actually bear visual signifiers which say i'm evil wait a minute they're all so i knew this but first of all we got so many pro this is all this video is they make a statement and you have to break it down like it's 17 different holes because of that so the fact that he said sometimes or like oftentimes you can figure out who is evil based on the bad decisions but we've already established there's visual signifiers which by the way fucking hell but um i would go as far as saying so you've already admitted that there are times where we don't know whether someone is good or evil but we'll have to make decisions ultimately in certain circumstances that involve ending their lives like that that's a potential but why can't we expand that to a wide scale where you live on an island and a bunch of people are coming to take over the island you don't know anything else about it but they're gonna kill you guys it's like you fucking kill them and if someone goes well are they evil okay and we're already we're again we keep getting further and further away from why an intrinsically evil race is bad game design yeah yeah you barely scratch the surface of that at all and we're going into oh yeah in the real world some people are bad like thank you for that um right i know it's worse it's like he's saying that what people wear is an indicator of their bad decisions so that means oh yeah like like absolutely like if people wear t-shirts with like blazers over on yeah that's an indication of a bad decision based on what they wore yeah right yeah that's not that's uh would you say they're evil if they do that absolutely i don't know what they mean yeah i i i i can get jiggy with that someone just said they've clearly added bad in post like this used to say i'm evil because of my decisions that is actually all right great it's like that's actually kind of a good yeah it does look like that kind of is yeah absolutely that way it does yeah and they couldn't spend 15 seconds to draw a new picture yeah it's easy too because you could just rub out the because of my and then rewrite because of my input bad just move further to the left but yeah he's like oh yeah we should put bad there because we have because if it was just i'm evil because of my decisions that would be a bit more complex than i'm evil because of my bad decision yeah that's almost a tautology sort of i'm pretty sure because i'm trying to get better with terms and stuff i'm pretty sure that's called begging the question when you say you're evil because of your bad decisions it's like you you've already concluded you need in your in your statement i needed more than that my question is assume the conclusion of your argument in the premises so it's like yeah that's bullshit but um yeah it would be like based on what you're you know based on the bad decisions that you've made i've determined you're evil this is very interesting to me because this whole video is about we need to get more complicated and then the following is all right i'm evil because of my bad decision signifies would be like if i was a nazi it's like okay so imagine that you are a clansman it's like all right imagine you were born in like you cut out there what's that yeah your parents are racist your siblings are racist oh so i was saying like so so this video is trying to say that this is you know we need to look at complex moral stuff and now we've got i'm evil because of my bad decisions and there are signifiers like i'm a nazi or i'm a clansman um and it's like all right so imagine in 1850 you're born your parents are racist your siblings are racist all of your friends are racist everybody in your town is racist um the government says that that there are superior races and inferior races if you become a clansman how much of that is attributable to just so like if in all of those things you're surrounded by nothing but racism isn't your bad decisions that you've become a racist or would it have been profoundly unlikely for that to have even happened well we're gonna get close to getting banned again if we start talking about the inherent contradiction here that they've established because they said uh this guy here is evil because his bad decisions however you cannot paint a broad brush on a selection of people because it has to have been more complicated than that right it has to be like they're upbringing we did that with a nazi video remember you we can't we got to stop normalizing nazis and portraying nazis is you know sympathetic or even as individuals good people that we can't do that that's a bad thing it's not something we need to have in games that's what got them such hot water when they made that nazi video and here we are now it's the same shit phrase differently i it is funny to me though that it's just like so games you know not complicated enough but human beings in real life you can tell which ones are evil just how would they look damn bro okay i agree that's why it works our evil i agree i am an avid support or of every video game enemy in every video game ever made wearing a nazi armband so yeah yeah or just a sign i mean a lot of no seriously i am evil though what if we have all the slimes holding this flag would that make it better all of them have this flag just don't know that i showed it all the time i made bad decisions oh good this is the kind of grin and flag that somebody would carry around to mock extra credits yes it's so infinitely funny because they're just like it's so it's so easy to tell evil people but it's really hard to tell about like fantasy races where you're told they are evil by the creator of the universe oh i feel like you guys have been mixed up and we're the harder yeah because like they can tell you extra credits who which humans are evil and good right but um you know the the artificial world that has no bearing on anything real other than what you seem to interpret they can't decide who's good and evil well it's almost sneaky how they transition from the concept of fictional evil races being intrinsically bad just so much of this discussion being about real people when they're totally two different things and they just slide right into the real world aspect of it when it's just not something that anyone really thinks about ever i'm an evil kid well signifiers which say i'm evil not because of where i was born but because of the choices i've made such as not so uniforms and oh no hydro there you go oh no it called it so uh it's just like this is dude it's so bad because i saw this it is really bad to teach people that anyone wearing these clothes like so that they need to like they're just strict evil is over like oh yeah coming from the fucking video that talks about how complex it is yeah these are don't help them just be evil or yeah these are human beings who were unfortunately they were they were in their mind they were reasonably convinced of these positions or they believe for whatever reason they have become convinced of their positions and we should unconvince them of them and you're not going to do that by just labeling them all as blanket evil to the core it's insane i can't look this video it's two braids working at once the cannot possibly coexist yeah that's that's what i was this is the reason why i brought up that example because i saw this frame pop up i'm guessing you didn't see it pop up but i saw it and i was like oh fuck like yeah do you have any self-awareness no they're kind of contradicting the argument they made right well they are because they're saying that there's it's like it's it's it's too contradictory in video games we need to make it very complex but in real life these are the evil people yeah and they're evil because they're pieces of shit there's no there's no like slippery slope or they grew up in a and it's funny because you said you're not born into it's like a lot of people probably were born into fucking fascism and like yeah as close as you could be born into something not mention like again if you're born in everybody you know as a racist how much of it is down to your bad decisions personally that you ended up being a racist like what a piss poor piece of advice to be like you can just tell by the way they look it's like you do understand there are several billion scenarios that they could be wearing these clothing for not to like of course the general ones just like maybe parody or experimentation in terms of just a movie they're making or whatever but like actual ones where it's just the kkk member is like yeah i think um i think black people are fucking things up don't like them and then like after a week of talking to a black person they're like oh i was wrong like big time yeah i was like this guy's all right i guess you know maybe maybe they're not all as bad as davante here who knows you know i just wrote hello absolute evil 16 year old 1941 waffam ss member yeah i read about and i watched a video about this guy who's a black guy and he would make friends with clan members and he would like hang out with them and have a beer with them and shit and he would try to like understand them and that guy the black guy was getting shit for that like because people were saying like oh how dare you affiliate with people like that it's like dude not only is the guy black and maybe putting himself in a dangerous position by trying to talk to some of these people but he's like seeing their potential to like change their ways you know if you just like daryl davis yeah it proves that they have a mutual exchange of like humanity he might be able to convince one of these guys yeah why i think that's why what the fuck am i doing here yeah try and deke about these people and it proves that a lot of it may very well be to do with not their soul for lack of a better term but their environment right like no they're it's too late for these guys look at the clothes they put on it's very strange for this video to make that point because like what it it's like what it okay so if you've decided that these people are like evil it's like what now do they die like what what what happened but that's the scary thing right once you wall somebody off as like they're unsavable irredeemable what do you do with them especially when they still have you know 50 40 more years of life to be around in society and you've already written them off as well i guess they're just going to be evil and we got to staunch the bleeding for it so for 40 50 years and they'll be out in society going doing stuff can you imagine like making the point that you know it's a little more complex than saying all kkk members and all nazis are evil but orcs in your fantasy world yeah they could be evil and someone says no it's the opposite yeah i mean going with what what mauler is saying their their priorities are asked backwards like you would want your game to be as simple as possible and you want to have nuance in the real world and what they're doing is the opposite it's so retarded again we're so far away from writing in game design we've gone so far away yeah well i don't like to say it but it seems to be they've just found their way back to nazis are evil it's like yeah here we are again i hate i hate getting into this part of this rhetoric or whatever but it was it's this video is just a smokescreen maneuver to yeah we'll dress it up like we're talking about game design but we really just want to talk about how some people are bad evil while saying that we'll still have to be evil like what we already do this amazing stuff yeah then in fiction we have things like the hydro logo a clear visual signifier but one again you're wrong because winter soldier wouldn't be called evil he would be considered like a man who's been put under brainwashing that can be rescued that's like the fucking arc in the captain america movies idiot yeah captain america is a pretty darn static character uh well my name's you yeah he goes from being a government boy to non-government boy well i mean that that's his role more than a more than a well and i guess that's more of a that's part yeah it says part of it i'd still say that his internally his character his stayed pretty darn consistent in terms of the principle oh totally yeah this this he values the individual is like one of the things that just carries on through because he also thought he should take orders from organizations he trusts around by people he trusts but then he you know was disenfranchised my point is just that winter soldier is someone who is currently in a tv show about how he's not a bad person despite having been with hydra because of very specific circumstances and this guy is like what we learned from that movie is all hydra people are irredeemable evil oh evil they're all evil i don't know that's nice that doesn't you know i don't know guys that doesn't sound like good writing to me that denotes choice not birth and if the statement that it denotes choice when the primary person from it is brainwashed i that's amazing you fucking morons well how did you like how do you reference that uh game is making with its backstory and symbols is that an enemy had a choice and they chose wrong then that gets way less complicated for a game that's interested in no that's more complicated i want to line this out okay scenario one a slime that's doing what it does is consuming your family so you shoot it to death scenario two a cultist is hoping to execute somebody you prevent them and then you go you can run if you want but i'm going to gun you down instead of like capturing them and trying to convince them what they did was wrong and just like nah you made a choice why would they show this image of the cultist looking terrified let's take the slime example so you let's start out how it was where the slimes they're just they're just evil creatures they just want to consume and feed on energy and they're just evil right it's just what they do okay makes it really really easy to exterminate them now the parallel that they're trying to draw is actually the slimes are kind of like you and me and they got families and lives and hopes and dreams but they've been convinced by somebody or they believe that it's you know they need to go out and get you and consume you for energy and that's some that's a choice that they're making is like that that makes it much much more difficult for me to kill them now because i'm like man it kind of makes them saveable in a way like those could potentially be allies down the road this isn't um too much of a jump right because i don't want to be putting words in their mouths that are very controversial but if we swap out some of the imagery here because they just related this cultist to a kkk member is this a suggestion you can burst into a kkk meeting and gun them all down because they made their choices oh yeah definitely the kkk had their chance because yeah like again that's a pretty rough thing to draw out of extra credits but like how could you avoid that message with what they've just shown us in a row it's amazing how just how backwards they get it it's kind it's really baffling um but yeah it's just for reference don't go gunning down kkk members uh don't yeah don't do it anyone like preferably don't go around any because yeah why would they fucking show this in isolation a a fearful person wearing red clothing running away and you're like la la la la you made your choice yeah i'm so glad that you decided this for whatever reason this is a prime example why visuals to your videos are so fucking important yes this is somehow worse than a child's understanding of morality and ambiguity this is terrible yeah because you have those stories where the child sees it's like a kid's movie and the kid sees the monster and the monster is just understood it just wants to be loved and the child is like oh maybe maybe we should just be nice to him and then it turns out that maybe bigfoot isn't so bad after all yeah yeah that childlike idea that there's some good in people is maybe you know maybe there's something to that idea maybe the whole skywalker thing sort of yeah maybe something that maybe and like oh my god i think that if you have a game and this is a very important part that if it's a game and not real life this doesn't necessarily have to happen but i think all of us as as gamers we typically you're gunning down these cultists or whatever because they're all shooting their magical spells at you that rip your skin apart and then one of them goes please please don't and like crouches and puts their hands up and says please please don't kill me we're all gonna be like hmm um uh first of all mechanically what can i even do here this is obviously like yeah last of us two yeah is this the last of us two bullshit well you know if you have no if you have the chance to cuff them and then they are they are like we know mechanically that they are left in a position where they will no longer be a threat and they will end up in a jail of some kind it'll be super interesting to know how many people make that choice um rather that's why in a lot of games where you can have lethal and non-lethal kills yeah the context of who the people are is like well you know they're people who knows why they made the decisions they made i don't have to kill them it's not personal so i'll be you know it's you know non-lethal for them and they'll they'll see things you know they'll make better decisions later and and and this is the thing if it's a game i don't necessarily care if any of you decided now fuck it i just i don't have to think about it die but if in real life you were like no i killed him because even if he surrendered fuck it me made his choice i'd be like damn dude that is cold and uh extra credits is saying that's just the normal that's how it goes they made that sure it's like oh it didn't know it was that simple the face of that poor cultist placated violence so whether a game does or doesn't want its players to overthink their characters moral choices evil as a choice is just more effective than evil as a bio essential trait oh wait so now now aliens not good enough when it's literally a fucking creature that's just that's that is it's an animal yeah it's operating as it oh so i fucking put this like calling aliens evil isn't really applicable but you could in a general sense be like why are we killing all these aliens like they're fucking evil they're trying to kill all of us you go oh yeah like in that colloquial sense but saying that they're bio essentially evil because this fucking we have loads of real life examples of this there are loads of creatures that we went over like the lion and the bears and all this other stuff why are we not allowed to have them also let's let's let's use their choice argument right let's go with their if people choices then they're evil what if the supposed the evil race is continually or the race that supposedly looks evil continuously makes evil choices right is that going to be a problem for these guys now even though they they look evil and they do evil things consciously i mean what what is their oh my god i'm i'm getting confused now i'm assuming you're saying that from the POV for like the the soldiers or whatever they would just be like what the fuck is the difference at this point like if i knew exactly why they do things they do it doesn't change the fact that they're doing all of these things you're like yeah now i shoot them and i'm sad i don't know why is the alien is being used an example alien is just like not even like there's never even a conversation that happens with an alien and a person but possible this reminds me of all those videos we find by it seems to be mostly lefty people who make these videos who just have this insanely skewed sense of morality and lack empathy i mean dude i don't want to be too mean here but like it just seems like they had an idea which was like hey how do we how do we simultaneously bolster the orc the stupid orc argument people while also saying as nazis are evil and oh if you want to cut them down they made their choice i mean the the xenomorph design hinges on it being like a killing machine yeah right and it's it's not an exactly friendly looking creature by any means like you wouldn't see that walking around like garrus for a mass effect like hey how you doing oh my gosh well the funny thing is if you take promissives that's the joke is when it's just like bro and robot chicken does that when these alien creatures they're just like oh hey frank and you know they're at work and they they're accountants or something like that's it's funny because of how absurd it seems um yeah if you take the new canon for alien shit like well i say new kind of ridley scars prometheus and an alien covenant they're a bio weapon they were created to do this they're supposed to be dropped on a population and they'll destroy it because of the way they work is that good enough or is that evil that you could even have a you know we're just kicking the can down the road every time because they just don't like the idea that you can create something that does stuff that is negative toward a pov that wouldn't want these things to happen right like it's no different than dropping a nuke on people equivalently but it's just biology instead it's another way of doing it so is that is that are we allowed to have that or is that still wrong but then of course if everyone wearing the evil team uniform happens to be an orc or if every orc happens to have chosen team evil the game wouldn't exactly be communicating that difference very well okay so that's not a failure of the concept that's a failure of the game in the developer saying something but not executing it yeah it's either that or the developer is just flat out lying to the player which is not something you should do probably yeah like it says all orcs choose very complex like lives to be evil and then you never ever like some of them are good and you never ever see a good one throughout the entire like you see millions and you're just like so this is weird if you have if you want to give players the information so this is why when I guess if we go back to the developer saying all of them are evil if you wanted to have that image make more sense it wouldn't be the developer herself telling the player this it would be like an NPC or a character in the game with conveying to the player's character what they believe to be true or what they've been told or actively lying to the player to deceive them or trick them into thinking these gooey boys are evil same thing with the orcs if it's going to be in universe that's one thing but if it's going to be out of universe then it's almost like a theme like the delivery of a theme in a way where like I could see what you're trying to do but if you do it poorly then then you fucked up that's bad you messed up a quick fix here would be to show some diversity in the evil team's hiring practice wow okay wait what did you say the evil people need to be here we are everyone we made it Christ we did it everybody can we go back yes we can metal well a quick fix here would be to show some diversity in the evil team's hiring practices for instance with evil humans and elves as well as so so what a chance pointing out that I said lethal and non-lethal kills I might have slightly misspoken there I love my non-lethal kills dude I love the fact I'm over 300 confirmed non-lethal kills non-lethal kills they're dead but not legally in my evil creatures all right I can't take evil creatures seriously unless it's black evil creatures are we doing the horseshoe again we go all the way back around again describe the position as privileged or sheltered before but this one um like seriously do you know the world works or have it well is it over can I come oh I love it or conversely introduce orcs who have chosen good and neutral as well as evil and by the way the majority of orc depictions and like elder scrolls and dnd and pathfinder works just a race and they can even breed with people and make half orcs and they're just part of society just the majority this doesn't shock anybody this isn't new you're not some revolutionary commenter yeah well it just seems to me that they hate the idea that a creature could do what we perceive to be evil things as a get go from biology um even to the point where they're criticizing alien which i'm essentially just lost at this point so mass wire the good orcs not fat it's like I don't know a good example of a series getting yeah it's inevitable they shouldn't though they should stay far the fuck away from mass effect which spits in the face of their video but but hey extra credits made their choice they've made it clear they're evil over time is natural because in the first game commander shepherd never meets a nice battalion or a fun geth but then spoiler alert most of these evil species turn out to be as complex and interesting as but that's different they're not morally they're not intrinsically evil so that's totally different than evil races yeah like I don't understand this like if you're at war this is different like if an alien is watching some content from earth and it's just saving private ryan whatever and they're like wow so all of germany was just straight up soulless evil people and if they conclude that like oh well I mean you could go look into it if you want to but uh ultimately for this storyline they may as well have been from the the pov of our protagonist uh if you would have told me that they made up and like like the original plan for mass effect was to have the geth actually just be intrinsically evil robots I would believe you based on mass effect one and then and then they decided to recontextualize them like I sure like either way seems like it's pretty pretty reasonable compared to what they see and do and I might even have some problems based on how they behave with the change in their motivation if that was the story all along but uh yeah either way they're not intrinsically evil so that's not the point of this video so why are you bringing it up I don't even know I assume they bring it up because they were like it went from being they're straight up evil to they way more complex and is he just saying that's better we should do that more yeah well not every game is mass effect I mean like this this game has a different objective than most objectives which imagine he said mostly narrative driven and it's about races throughout the galaxy coming together and putting aside their differences to stop a greater threat that threatens them all which is the reapers right like that so you have a reason to remember game of all the different characters all the different races oh I saw an article the other day that said um there's this growing sentiment that nobody even remembers or talks about game of thrones anymore but the fact that people point that out means they are that's true I don't know about that I uh it's it's one of those it's better to be forgotten than be remembered as a horrible example oh so you're saying game of thrones fans are saying that as if like it's still alive you guys no people are still talking about it I'm assuming the person who wrote the article was a fan of game of thrones season eight but um the meme right now is that memory lives on in our hearts how much stuff comes up as examples of just just how to do things like Lord of Rings comes up fucking constantly it's obviously here again um lots of different things that we all like be it like Star Trek or Alien Predator all these different properties but game of thrones fucking died like it's just not being referenced nobody likes it other than when they're like oh remember how to end something horribly oh yeah I remember game of thrones um always rags just mentioned because thematically game of thrones was about ignoring everybody's major or miniscule differences to stop the white walkers from taking over the entire world but they fucked that up completely and so this article was like well the fact that people are talking about how they don't talk about it means they're still talking about it yeah which is a pretty shitty way an unusual cell phone but you do you what a moment guys like fucking wreck dude it really is amazing with that show like I can't think of a more eye-opening example of something that was so big and then it's like gone like yeah for almost a decade it dominated popular culture everyone knew what game of thrones was even people who didn't watch game of thrones knew like some of the characters they knew about it and now it's just in a fell swoop it just died and no one talks about it and it's totally almost totally forgotten and it's only remembered for how terribly it ended it's kind of fascinating they did john dirty they did everyone dirty in game of thrones someone someone said in chat you must be the worst series finale i've ever heard of but you have heard of me which is a pretty big fucking fall from grace when it was the most talked about thing in popular culture for media possibly like wow you're proud that you just referenced as being bad like you pat you on the head oh my god leave me alone it's something i don't know sees turn out to be as complex and interesting as the human ones as the trilogy progresses broad moral generalizations about species or but not nazis definitely not those not those real world things it's literally fucking super bad logic and bad of stealing it's too late for that but done culture not only doesn't make internal sense but it also leads it does though no you never establish this yeah i don't know that it doesn't make internal sense not anything in your video when it should have been saying it doesn't make internal sense from maybe for some sort of logical perspective which would have been a really really tough fight to wage yeah because hypothetically this fictional world could be anything because we're we're talking about a a hypothetical hypothetical world so the amount of possibilities are practically infinite if they want to talk actually talk about the topic because it's like oh maybe making it more complex could be a bit better writing wise or whatever but i don't even know i still don't know what exactly i'm trying to say so and i don't even think they don't mention game design once throughout the whole fucking video they might use the term game design but they don't talk about gameplay or like they say that having a moral count having moral complexity essentially will make a game better but they don't apply that to a game example right they just say it will right it's it's a lecture basically this whole thing is a moral yeah and it's just fun extra credits has always been smarmy like that it pisses me off and yeah it's like what you said like they're uh what what this here's what i think of video games this week and you should think it too what what was uh no if you're not and i'm gonna gun you down oh no it's like i feel off the top of our heads we in this call have just been so much more uh enlightening and productive and useful for giving information to people and these guys i say these guys i bet they had an artist draw the crap that james head whoever's faces um wrote down um but the this is this is what happens this is your brain on i don't even know what to kind of call it at this point it's just it's fascination with race and victimhood this is where this is where it takes you i was gonna talk about the format it was funny as well it's like we're gonna show how two plus two equals five and then they talk about something and then right the other go you see it is like wait no what do you remember how extra credits put out a video arguing for the price of games to go up from like 50 59 to 69 that was another that was i think that was like the one of their early big oofs that they put out yeah it's like what the fuck are you doing more games you cost more guys have fuck yourself and we cover one of those as well that said something like uh the whole the say you can't have a video game that has a violence in it that doesn't lead to something like positive whatever they were like sadism is uh absolutely a no go remember that there's another one of their controversial ones um i don't remember who we kept it with was that part of we came up with a really creepy torture game as an example um yeah was that extra credits i think it was a you know what fuck it could have been anything at this point it's hard to remember it could remind us in chat because where our brains are fried episode 111 apparently help us chat the singular entity that you are that i'm not training with a broad brush it's a video about hatred that that uh cutting down video game oh yeah is that what you meant did you just simulate it came up as well yeah good times extra credits is just really someone said it was extra credits capital opinions you see with sapitol sapitol um they said sapitol and i was trying to decipher that and you said capital i'm like oh yeah yeah um i remember the discussions but a lot of the like i can remember these conversations very well however the video we were responding to in those conversations just makes me i just remember us talking about something i don't know what it was but what we talked about oh yeah they are the jumping off point they always are less rewarding worlds in games but we can you didn't tell us why it was less rewarding you just said it was yeah like maybe it's it feels super rewarding when i play vermin yesterday i was getting footage for a video vermin tide too so just so simple you kill all the rats it's great i had a zero damage game and i was like that was rewarding as fuck to do that and no moral qualms whatsoever during that game didn't have to worry about it my conscience totally unscathed maybe that just as if you need monster yeah maybe they would just say well that means you're evil you you've you've identified yourself as evil they'll have to go oh i'm sure they think i'm evil and they did do you have clonk like why would you do that can solve that problem by following our best creative instincts to diversify no creative instincts can be shit look at zack Snyder's justice league yeah we just had this happen also why is the first thing he thinks of with creative decisions to diversify the enemy like some of the most famous enemies are all like drone like because the point is like we as a as the good guys are all creative and an individual but a representation of a bad guy could be all in uniform or uniform is in like the action they take as well as what they're wearing or what they are and they don't think as other than a collective it's just like we need more diversity at our bad guys you're like okay so yeah you someone just said vermin tide is in no way like left for dead it absolutely is it is extremely similar to left for dead it if someone called it a left for dead clone i would be like yeah i see what you mean it is absolutely very very similar to left for dead i think that was their their their key numero uno inspiration was left for dead they're insanely similar looking forward to the new one that's coming out this year vermin tide yeah i hope it's good all right with this company who knows i hope it's good i eventually it probably really will be but i just hope they don't fuck it up same job because they definitely have the capacity to there are still things from vermin tide two that are not in there when they were in vermin tide one and we're good like remember the bounty board from vermin tide one and how great it was they just never put that in vermin tide two okay my games got issues but it's still mostly good my game does have issues either lessons yeah no to diversify deepen and complicate the worlds we create and its denizens this way players won't be in but like i only have so much fucking time and not every player and if i'd say the majority of players don't want to have to deal with deep moral and philosophical you know quandaries about the combat that they're doing do we do do we apply this to mario do we just edf hey i don't care what you shouldn't just make things you shouldn't make things complicated for no fucking reason like it should have an aim right i'd be like you're just expected to develop every everything in every direction infinitely this is why it's no aim to your story this is why it feels like elect right like maybe the game should be less into the players about not judging other it feels like yeah because i'm sure that you have to mario yeah it's like oh come on believe it or not all theme allegory messaging whatever you want to call it in pieces of media doesn't have to come down to this shit it can deal with other things yeah exactly uh this is sometimes there needs to be any messaging at all yeah sometimes you're just game playing i'm gonna say i remember uh a twitter post from oh shit i forgot the guy's name but who said oh wait wait oh shit it was a real story of weekend what the fuck he was having a good point about the oscars like every oscar movie right now is fucking depressing like don't you remember movies when they were fun and they do have a lesson but you don't want to kill yourself right after watching it yeah yeah uh what's the guy's name he was cool bill burr yeah he had to rant about that sounds like bill burr now did you say his name yeah i think i retreated it if you want to rant about what os the oscars right now like judas and uh like judas judas and the king where the leader of the black panthers get skilled in the trial of the chicago then or the leader of the black panthers also gets killed there and it's just like it's all the movies in the oscars right now are depressing yeah it's like what happened to just escapism and just having a good time at the movies it's it's not allowed yeah it's not allowed so well i remember mad max fury road was an oscar sweep and like that was kind of a schlocky good time not in like a bad like like it was brilliantly executed but it's very like uh pulpy just action cheap action thrill sort of thing yeah that was a fun movie and it was nice to see a movie like that get a shitload of awards you know my my more or cheap complaint with the oscars is that comedies just are not eligible they're not uh right uh comedies never happiness is the emotion of the low hasn't a lot of comedies suck but like hot fuzz was probably one of the best movies i think it is the the problem of it's like oh it's a comedy it's not you know it's not like a it's not a proper film if it's a comedy dumb this way players won't be incentivized to make snap judgments about our games orcs or aliens or undead based on moral absolute so this is your job they won't make enough decisions about the undead right so so generally if if you're a dm and you don't so if you're if you're talented so if you're not extra credits and you want to set up a scenario where your players encounter the undead you obviously know that in 99 plus percent of scenarios in popular culture the undead are bad and they're here to eat your brains and kill you and do bad stuff so the players will know this which is why the first time you have them encounter the undead you need to describe them in a way or you need to give some kind of information or you need to you need to do something knowing this is you know this is part of the talent of trying to steer your players into a particular direction if you don't want them to kill the undead then don't have like the undead ambush them and there think you know maybe things like that you have to try and formulate a scenario that will make your players think you know what there's something up with these undead they're not quite like what i maybe i was imagining or maybe there's something else going on here or or maybe i've learned something through my skills that makes the some something's off so it's not quite right here um so a lot of this again but this applies to the whole video so much of this is on the developer or the dm conveying information to the player right that's why these games you just don't have that option because just like as i said edf for example and insectoids invade the earth they're gonna kill everyone why i don't care they're killing everyone kill them back and then you have like i don't know the divinity where you can talk to everyone and try to convince them to not kill you or bribe them or whatever there's different kinds of genres out there you can play if you want this kind of scenario yeah kind of the advantage you've got your pick of the letter for what kind of experience you're looking for it's amazing this video is almost defeatist like it's just saying just don't do it don't even just don't even try to do it don't try to set it up just don't even make intrinsically evil races yeah but it's funny that undead's taking this song to sort of come up like zombies i think it was mentioned earlier at some point but um you know i'm making a little zombies earlier like a little game where i'm just trying out as a developer and i just go like my tower defense stuff and i'm like what are the enemies gonna be it's like because they hold the zombies i guess i was like yeah and then extra credits like hmm wow what have you got a lull page why they chose to do this it's like no they didn't choose they just are dead they just like they desire brains or whatever and he's like hmm i don't know about that what if i'm wearing what if people compare them to black people oh yeah uh this is this is blaming the concept for the poor execution or the terrible decisions of other things other entities either the players or the developers and they just say no just don't even do the concept fuck it not good advice or body type instead we'll all be driven to investigate explore and learn our players will invest themselves more in our games and because they're human ask the hard questions to push our design into even more enriching no so like i don't want it's like something this they don't want us to ask they don't want really they don't actually want hard questions yeah they're not ready for hard questions about you know like maybe the sympathetic nazi who was put into a bad scenario who's who's very you could really empathize with them or a clansman who is kind of really good except for this one horrible view they have that they only got because of whatever and they're not ready to ask these really hard like even they said this don't don't even dabble essentially in bio essentialism they're not ready to even begin to talk about difficult questions because on their scale of difficulty these are the difficult questions like i don't even know what those really are and unexpected places plus you know maybe if we ditch this whole evil races line of thinking if one day orcs or extra dimensional horrors or even isekai protagonists pop out of a portal they'll offer us humans the same courtesy i'd come out of win-win cthulhu rises and he's like you know he's fucking stupid i actually feel kind of chill about this will maybe those fictional before you treat those fictional fucking characters great the real monsters that come out of a portal and to kill us maybe will be nice to us too what a fucking retarded thing to say yeah holy shit maybe how does he come to the conclusion right how how how did he do that i want to ask him then but i think it's just a stupid joke oh it's it's not a good joke it isn't a good joke it matches the rest of the article it sounds like a joke it's just sounded like another stupid argument i was going to say i can't tell the difference for sure i thought it was it might have been some kind of weird idealistic thing we stop thinking that every new thing will be evil then maybe it'll be better yeah it's probably real informed by how we see it maybe if we're all just nice to everybody in ways that i approve of but not actually nice then just what would just be better if we're all just nice and kind in the super naive kind of way like a zombie walks by shakes his hand a kathulhu monster walks by shakes his hand a nazi walks by lays a hymn to death kill his children yeah people people will be more invested in our stories this way so it's better game design this feels like the most it's a lip service attempt like oh yeah that was in the title wasn't it game design shit um yeah it's about game design that's why we should do this right you didn't want to add to the chorus we just wanted to add to the yeah because i was that was i have a lot to talk about but it was really disappointing that we didn't really get any because i was because we hope for this a lot of the times when we have people on or when we watch a video that talks about why something's good but they don't really give any reason for it it's either in the feels or they just assert it and move on and we're like oh that's a shame i was kind of expecting an argument that we could sort of talk about and discuss well the fuck was the game design get just it just asserts that it's bad game design because your player who's an idiot might do a dumb thing like okay is the rest of you just the Nord ad once again thanks so much to Nord VPN for sponsoring this episode a minute you're looking to protect your on because we had i think we can all agree Nord VPN needs to start making videos you ever notice how there was one singular example with like minimal elaboration in the entire video yeah and also that the video is eight minutes what was the secret of barrios jump yeah we don't know don't know is this because Nord VPN and uh online activity internet ice then you've got to give Nord man imagine having imagine being a patron and your name is now plastered onto this video for a turn yeah good for you that's your your your your dollars at work imagine like the editor of in large of like retro it's like no you're supposed to put this on april first you fuck no now the people gonna think it's missed it by a day this missed april first by a day i think this was march 31st um let me know we'll check to make sure it's called more than it's evil races automatically pops up 31st oh yeah they were close well any game developers in our chat you've learned a lot from this video not in the way that they probably oh yeah i don't think you have a little bit down don't be a klansman or a nazi that's what i got that's yeah avoid that as a plus no redemption for you you're just gonna die you made your choice you also account for everything and give players complete freedom you have fun making that game yeah good luck oh thanks i hate it well how the how the fuck can you call your video that and not even talk about game design it's ridiculous this is anything video essayist wait i'll leave a comment where are the video where are the games where are the games that bro i'll leave a comment you know it's the video games not even bothering to think like is this hypothetical game fun like before all that about the oh no it ain't about that they don't give a fuck about fun fun is the enemy no funnel out fun if you if you're having fun you're probably doing something that's super problematic you don't fuck it up yeah yeah that's that's that it we got through it real quick i like that oh yeah we flew through it yeah lightning speed predict like two or three hours for this one with five yeah there was a potential to watch a second video but i believe we have we've already made it to nearly five hours so we'll be just fine to move into the the super chat section but before that i would like to offer you know as as per usual you are now free to leave you were captured before but any of you if you wish to escape we've made our choice and all that shit i think i'll bounce i'll i'll take a nap before we have lunch it's like seven a.m. here so what are you up to on your uh on your shornal well i was making a video on batman and no not batman just to see and how a frankenstein version of zack snider and joss weeden would be a good movie but but the attack on titan ended and it was such a bad ending and i don't get why people liked it so i don't know if i'm gonna i don't know what i'm gonna do with that you can answer this one is it the is it the manga has ended but the anime hasn't or vice versa the manga's ended and the last season will be on december i think yeah they called the last season the final season and now it's the final season part two they did really well the naming i just found out there's a season three part two that i never even knew about so i'm gonna watch that before i watch the final quote unquote season um so you want to make a video about the anime's ending is it no the manga the manga sorry sorry yeah the manga's ending um i don't know if i if i'm gonna focus on just to see or that because i really got triggered man like i know that feel like people are people are giving or praising it and i'm like there was a person on twitter that said it's stupid to it's stupid to like hate the whole manga for the ending but the ending really destroys the manga retroactively because of the twist at the end it's so fucking stupid it's so stupid than the anime are they doing like a one-to-one thing because i don't know i i don't know if they'll make an anime ending or they'll stick to the manga but so far they've told it oh completely faithful not i think they added some characters that aren't in the manga but like the whole there's a story probably trash oh man it's like isn't it great when a reboot or an adaptation takes a big steaming shit on the original thing and everybody forgets it existed i figured out that um chris fraggleston recently said about doctor who that in order for doctors who to move on you have to destroy the canon like all right sounds like something a terrible writer would say i just like i don't know what universe you'd possibly want to try and justify that i'd be like isn't that the whole reason we're here like yeah just if you want to do something else just go do something else yeah destroyed what's there like what is your problem um yeah go make doctor who neo it's just the new version of the show reboot leave the other shit alone like don't can you not destroy i just i don't think you should destroy stuff i am a yeah people have this shit stupid opinion to me yeah well that's mean yes um but yeah check out weekend warrior he's going to talk about weeb stuff and we know plenty of people in our audience that are very hype on that train so excellent yeah maybe on twitter they always make me laugh yeah memes on twitter so w-warrior underscore one oh self promotion oh you're allowed to shoot at this point at this juncture well this was fun the talking not the video i also enjoyed the talking we'll we'll catch you again sometime mr mr warrior and nice to meet you mr john cj hey you too man good talking to you dude yeah this video is always some steaming pile of shit so signing out guys have fun have a good one you don't know how to play games mutually yes that's all i'm gonna say is yes i don't need to make an argument i watched extra credits you don't have to oh fuck i've lived um what are you playing probably since the center and it's been long enough two months i need to play it again uh but yeah uh is everyone else gonna gonna hang out i still haven't forgotten so i'm i'm chill all righty then man i've been having a really fun time so my internet's been fucking shit in the bed for the last day all you may have noticed i've been able to get any words out so that was fun and while i was doing this i'm like oh man you know i actually want to get some breakfast but like i should stick around and not like just disappear and drive off to get food so i was like all right i'll use uber eats it took an hour for my order to get here and it was fucking wrong so now here so now wait here just wait to see if i get my stuff back um like god damn maybe the string of bad luck this befallen me it feels like unfair i need bus day ever well you know what it's not a great start when i have to wait an hour when i was hungry an hour ago and then the food it's totally wrong it's it's not even close it's all it's someone else's order clearly um and then the dude's like well i mean you know if you're happy with it's like it's not mine it's someone else's food i don't get that like oh you're happy with it i'm not but i'm sure you need to ask if i wanted to eat the quarter pounder at 8 a.m in the morning and i probably would have ordered that at 8 a.m yeah whatever these first world problems these are first world problems i'll be trying to tell myself like not to get pissed off about this but it's hard not to especially when you have to pay more money for them to get it here but i could have just fucking waited until now and just gone off for 10 minutes to get it and i'm not gonna get anything for free either i know that much they're just gonna be like oh yeah sorry here you go see you we are so anyway right i'm down now we open with high rags no no i guess no not this time oh i think you might have gone get a drink so it's in spirit and moly you're straight now sweet i guess sometimes it just changes up as it as it does um extra chromosomes tisks tisks so much irony oh my goodness listen the people who make these videos they have good intentions i'm sure i wouldn't want to interpret something horrific about what they're trying to do and what ideas they're trying to spread are okay totally chill uh check your visuals and we don't assume i am here they need to think about their positions more thoroughly i mean fuck this is going to be the sole substance of your video there's no like i mean aside from the illustrations i suppose but i have a crazy idea is anybody watching extra credits for the awesome illustrations anyone actually watched any of their history videos i haven't no i'm pretty sure i've watched some of them like years ago and i i don't remember them so i was wondering if that was for at least okay and just hope i've got no hope really given the standard set doesn't even make sense you know how they've been talking about history for this long so it's a history video on the internet so i'm already skeptical do you not like history videos on the internet i don't like videos about anything i know about on the internet wow look how full himself he is is someone from there's like videos from back in the day when they started or something that's what i just completely understood you so i know i didn't watch those okay what i was going to say is i watched like their their videos of the normal channel like a long time ago and i just remember at some point it's like this is not giving me anything there was me pre-being critical of anything i want to explore this topic for the theory because like do you have any examples of what you mean when you like in terms of history channels on uh on youtube that that you think uh don't do a very good job history channels on youtube any that come to mind immediately is mostly when i just see things in passing reference right like you know someone will try and you know use history or something to support an argument and that always goes well yeah i guess history is one of those subjects where everyone's an expert so it can be very interesting for you no i know some things but i'm far from an expert i guess the problem is like when it's it's content on youtube there's a heavy incentive to shorten it down to you know make it as condensed as possible and when when it comes to history that's kind of difficult without doing some exaggeration yeah it's really difficult to actually summarize things like that it's difficult in the other thing i study which is philosophy as well and that's probably where i get more egregious examples of people just bringing it in where it's completely unnecessary looking at just right with that one oh i'm alone i don't know if you mentioned this on efab but he put out a video saying that uh attack on titan it's like essentially fascist propaganda and he ended up taking it down a lot of people were very upset with that and a lot of people like please cover it it's like guys i know nothing about attack on titan i don't know anything about attack on titan i don't care but there's i'm sure there's plenty of responses to it out there there's gotta be um i think he said he's gonna make a follow-up one to try and to try and save face he's a funny one just saved my soul yeah it was something like that attack on titan melted my cold dead heart attack on titan grill no i heard you're an anime standing over a grill i'm just cooking something i think that wasn't supposed to happen but i'm okay oh no you broke it again fine i will wait for the planet to respawn free way of getting my car back um wait i think drive still yeah have you never driven a broken car before no i don't have a license i'm not a man yeah an adult yeah yeah adult dammit i fucked it up i'm sorry oh wait can i not i don't think i can get you if you were an adult fuck um it's not an osha violation it's corporate sanctioned Darwinism i'm not sure that must be in regard to us doing a sanction the safety standards and stuff corporate sanctioned Darwinism uh what soft software do you use to rip blue rays and youtube videos so youtube videos is 4k downloader it's a really good program um nice as well i recommend it for everybody it's super simple just does exactly what you wanted to do as for um ripping blue rays there's all kinds of different softwares i've used over time and then there are many different alternatives to getting clips you required from from youtube is a big one i think a lot of starting out channels will be able to do that before they get the software and hardware needed for um alternatives um but that's one that's probably far far more with googling get more information and obviously specifics because there's lots of settings for stuff like that apparently in the Loki trailer there are time cops so cap should have been arrested i guess in before they have a throwaway line saying cap was saving the world so we didn't need to arrest him whereas Loki was just trying to save his own life uh essentially that's probably okay i don't think it's a good reason whatsoever especially depending on what they do there but at the same time it's better than nothing also does that mean it's a common occurrence that people are just like flouting the rules of of like existence how often a lot of time travelers out there yeah well when you've got the time it's to be a division for them you'd think the time stone alone is just like oh my god nobody should have this because it just will have to keep arresting them but the sorcerers all have them well and that in fact they have a sacred oath to protect it with their lives also do they have access to the multiverse the time cops uh i guess they do maybe that maybe maybe this show will have something to do with uh dr strange i can't wait to just to just get to the point where they say fuck it and we're gonna see q in the mcu hey well with the space jam trailer where it looks like ready player one sort of thing it's like what if the mc becomes that i mean probably will cross over to the point where it's just everything fuck it nice if they could maintain any stakes but yeah too much to ask i guess at this point uh what's an objectively good movie you don't like the Irishman uh probably godfather for me i'm not a fan of godfather but i think it's really well made uh blasphemy hey um do you like uh do you not like either of them what i know three's kind of um i saw three of them and i rewatched three of them like a couple years ago and i just feel the exact same way i'm just like i follow the story and i think it's really well executed and acted and written it doesn't really appeal to me that much right weird heresy but come on i want to get everybody's answers let's go it's quite dense and i'm thinking that can be really off-putting i think as i said uh for me it's the irish man i didn't see anything problematic with it while i was watching it but it's yeah it was i was bored personally i wasn't really into it good so yeah that's mine i sort of have to think um to stuff here i'm sure there probably is really good stuff that i just don't care for or i didn't it just just didn't grab me um most things i think if it's objectively good i'm generally able to recognize it and so i can't like dislike it as much as i can be just apathetic about it i think those would count yeah i'm pretty apathetic about golf yeah so or anything i guess um hmm marriage story might be up there where it's really really good but just isn't my kind of story that i care about that much yeah i guess i really like that movie i love marriage story yeah yeah i mean i uh really enjoy the acting and stuff in it but um you know i guess it's not quite my thing right uh hmm what have you got for me i don't know uh for like a movie that is definitely good that i just don't like yeah like you recognize it's really well made but it doesn't really do anything for you uh i can't think of anything at the moment but um let me think about it so you can move on to another question well let's just say john uh and theo can still answer i'm i'm thinking about it too it's it's that's hard the only answers i'm coming up with at the moment i'm very much on the fence about calling good to begin with so oh we just saw there's like nothing really is one for me yeah i think i can totally see why that would be the case in fact that might actually be one for me now that i think about it i'm not sure that that one particularly is appeals me even though i recognize it's really well made well yeah and i didn't really give a s**t about et either oh it don't give a f**k about et might be one for me the only problem is i don't think i've ever watched et i was gonna say the only thing stopped me from saying et is i'd have to confirm that it's actually really well done because i i remember not f**king caring about it so i don't think there's that yeah that would be my one i guess well it's like well executed Spielberg did a good job on it but i just find the story so uncompelling like i don't care about the alien whatever i don't care about the kid um is easy even good i like i haven't seen easy in so long like i would be able to say i can't remember it but it's you know you know yeah there you go that's probably a good set um why fringy no streamy oh because i'm on e-fap today that's why i'm on e-fap i'm multitasking the f**k no answer i don't think you well i mean i like to try and talk to chat as much as possible like all the time that would interfere pretty significant with this but we're trying to actually have a topic and then talk to everybody later on uh good to see extra credit showing themselves as racists with a guilty conscience and a project all over the place and yeah cap was assassinated by endgame yep he was um i mean this is the thing i'm unlike people like extra credits i'm not too willing to jump on someone is racist trained too quickly i think that they're just f**king idiots right they don't they they kind of they're in that weird area of racism yeah like they don't even know what the f**k they're doing weird gray area where what their the implications are very racist and the way that they think a lot of people are if they have this weird race fascination um i think we've talked about like how racism often presents in like a friend group is that if if someone around you just kept on making specific jokes or references to how black people are the worst eventually just kind of just don't get much of a you start maybe not wanting to hang out with them that much you just like hmm it's a bit weird because like they constantly yeah it's no no no black people don't like keep doing this but in the same way you keep saying the same vein if i hung out with someone who kept f**king pointing out like oh man there's that that dumb ass group called the schlurms they just made me think of black people it's really f**ked up that they're in there i'd look at them like what the f**king you're talking about the schlurms they just you know how they're just knuckleheaded idiots you're just like why you say who invited you here yeah they can't do that every f**king thing we watched i'd stop being like you know what i i'm all right i'm gonna watch this one on my own this chill oh man yeah you can stay home today uh what's with this extra credit saying dumb s**t about video games or mark brown saying nothing at all about video games um better than no s**t um well i don't know because mark brown like i just find him fascinating more so than anything trying to understand what what what he's doing well i'm trying to understand what the appeal is i think that's the main thing for me it's like why do people like this like it's the same thing that we all know some sexy graphics every once in a while there's a bunch of games you recognize graphics yeah and um yeah maybe there's also people absolutely uh because a lot of people say that like he's helped them figure out how to make a video game so i guess like i don't believe them i wonder i think that they think that well i think they did it themselves and they're selling themselves short probably i think that's like what happened there yeah because if you made a game and you watched mark brown's videos i would be surprised if you needed to watch mark brown's videos to learn the things i feel like you already knew these and he just told you things that you already knew but the but because he said it it's like oh you know it's like oh yeah because you never needed to think about it because it was just f**king obvious you know you ever seen a mark brown video john uh i don't think so he's hilarious he doesn't say anything in like a creepy sort of way nothing he'll be like he doesn't say anything he'll say like so in metroid your task you know you will need to explore an area this area is represented on the map on the map you will notice that there are certain doors which are inaccessible but that there are items that you will be able to retrieve later in the game and then you'll realize that you need to go back to that area and use that item to retrieve this special art you know the next one of those word salad people well he said he said it sounds like more like a word cracker um he just explains what the game is who tell you like what the mechanics are and then people think that he's made a point the only thing you're missing there for me is he then would say like this is called a map and then it's like this is also in the video game mario sunshine you can hit a button and it will open up a general view of a map but there is much less detail in this map because it's much less important to know exactly where everything is then another game and it just picks one that's super complex as a map it's like this one is more like that was being really charitable with that last one that that last one was in danger of sort of oh you're right actually uh you wouldn't give you the reason for why it was simpler he would just say it was simpler and then he would yeah he would be like and there we go we have learned that there are maps in games and some of them aren't the same as the others and you're like okay now go make a video game go make a video called how to turn movement into a game mechanic i think like that just says everything turn it into a mechanic it is one what are you saying it's a pretty basic one how the f**k can you have a game that doesn't involve moving yeah that doesn't involve many of them moving something anything at all some text adventures i guess but does that you're kind of still moving away yeah yeah the movement isn't a mechanic but you're still well i guess it's just a whole idea of how is movement not a mechanic right it has to be if it's present in your game if the character movement is present then it it has to be it can't not be because of what it is yeah i think because the real shooter's argument where it's just the movement is all done for you it's like so there isn't really movement in the game then it's just the game is yeah the movement in the game is not a player mechanic it's a game mechanic but let's get real the player does not control all mechanics in the game what let's get real though we're not talking about that when we're having these conversations you know what's nice video games we're talking about we're talking about like the games that you go to a store to buy for like PlayStation or Xbox yeah and he'll be referencing something like mario that has like an incredibly complex set of jumps and he's like you can turn this into a mechanic like it isn't like that's cool you're doing mario games you go you jump around fuck man that sounds like he's carried away with his ego he likes to hear the sound of his own voice and he puts out a video he's like look i'm saying things i don't know if that's even i but the thing is with him is like there's almost this sort of humbleness that i think people are scribed to to that to what he does which is weird considering that he doesn't say anything right yeah like he i think he's seen as like a little like a really friendly harmless guy on youtube no worries only and he's very objective he just tells you what the case is you know but at the same time you're supposed to come away with knowing the difference between good and bad game design so just like i don't understand what's happening yeah so yeah we got extra credits for that thankfully yeah to come back to the question then i coded my game while watching that uh that a game design video of extra credits so the idea of which of those two how to portray the orcs which of those two is worse i find uh i was about to say which one causes more discussion would you guys say extra credits probably yeah i'd say the extra credits one yeah top the latch on to anything with mark brown yeah because it's almost like you have to generate the topics because he's not really doing any he's just saying things yeah it's just words everywhere well fucking extra credits like it's bad to have a race of zombies or whatever you're just like right game makers toolkit is that him yeah that's him okay i'll check that out later the one you can check out specifically no what are you doing the one you need to check out specifically grab it is uh is is how the enemies in cuphead kill you all right just search mark brown cuphead and you'll get it it's you need to see that video and then tell me what you gained from watching it i think it's anybody who's played a lot of video games that video is actually frustrated like why would you do this to me um hello all my awkwards that's very very friendly hello whoa oh also you dumbo should play ddlc perhaps someday oh i thought to consider definitely hello massives yola the all gwin run made by challenger andy that i was talking about yesterday is where all of the enemies except for mpcs are turned into twins oh okay uses a randomizer more to do it is that do they all have the same like health and damage or do they scale with whatever they're replacing i guess so sounds like it could be uh it'd be tough um moopa and the gadeld man different people or is moopa the gadeld man's name um like it's it's real complex but anytime it seems like it's inconsistent there's an explanation okay don't worry about that sure it's in the law book somewhere uh i'm all are in crew you hello howdy hello will you watch a vampire's kiss for efat movies also high rags a vampire's kiss he's a nicholas cage me nick cage yeah um i mean i'm not against it could go on a nicholas day hilarious man fuck i was rolling on the floor crying laughing first time i saw that uh in that case probably yes but like nick cage is craziest performance isn't isn't a vampire kiss when we're like i never misspelled anything not once not one time is that that one i don't remember that line but probably i well the one everybody remembers is him running down the street screaming i'm a vampire so funny oh my god i'm ready to watch this yeah i was gonna tell you crap we'd have did you please elaborate on why the third pirate's movie is objectively bad not that i don't believe you i just can't see the falls myself um pretty sure it's absolute fucking nonsense any problem is that i haven't seen it now in so long that i can only remember the major beats uh which isn't quite enough to be able to tell you more than that but i am more than happy to eventually do the pirates the caribbean arc on efat okay don't know who will be in it don't know what it'll be about uh more so than just pirates the caribbean like maybe it extends to that they're doing that reboot with all girls right that's that's good that's gonna be great no johnny depp because uh he's he's gonna he's he's considered like he's hollywood poison now because of all the other stuff that went on so yeah who knows maybe when we know that that film's coming out we can we can do like a build-up to to watching it with watching them all again and we can go through them because i would be game for watching the first one again our scary one how many are there four five uh the one two three and then on stranger tides dead men tell no tales is that it that's right it's either five or six that's a lot well we've watched more than six movies on efat we'll be fine but have six movies on efat release that's the key yes we got a backlog ladies and gentlemen um read mason dramur on amazon a man dies and is sent to a fantasy world he then takes the job of a detective where does the highway go star fight where does that highway go to there you go uh thunder four three fat movies also high rags hey there uh i've seen drinker's review of it i didn't know that anybody would have made that movie but it was made premises like this on the forest though a city is hit with something at some point that gives everybody a bunch of powers but most of them are evil the hits anti-social people or something like that and they're all called the miscreants and they fuck around with everything and then a brilliant scientist creates a machine that can give out a power i guess and so melissa mccarthy ends up using it she becomes a superhero to fight off the bad guy now i know what you're thinking i know what you're thinking you're like oh it's gonna be bad because she's in it and she's typically in really bad shit no it's just bad because it's bad but um you know what maybe i shouldn't say that because all i've seen is drinkers review and i shouldn't want to speak on something i haven't seen it's a monster face yeah right we had this conversation yesterday we did indeed uh so yeah you know uh maybe we'll do a free movie at some point or maybe it'll be forgotten in time and nobody'll give a shit by the time we like oh we could watch you know roll watch a vampire's kiss that's a good one yeah you'll get out of that kiss you um i don't get the hype around zack snider i think he's a very pretentious director and his cut of jl is no better than joss's but anyway hi rags hi there also you are correct um i don't like if you were to try and explain how it got the way it was i don't know like i don't know where the the snider sort of cult arrives obviously i'm using that hyperbolically but it is kind of funny like there's a group of people get very very fucking angry at you for criticizing it and um i like the guy i like don of the dead i think it's a decent zombie movie it's probably my favorite thing of his that he's made um i i do respect him quite a bit for like apparently he didn't take any money from Warner Brothers like they got all the money and like he forfeited any money that he would get from the movie in order to have like complete creative control over it so he made the movie that he wanted to make for better or worse definitely worse i would say but like i don't know like he made what he wanted to make he didn't compromise didn't take any money for it like i like that about it the movie on the other hand i'd say i'd hate him for his persistence well yeah uh i guess there are traits like that that explain why a lot of people are big fans of him it's certainly not his movies uh my goodness how could you be a fan of that sure it's more so the guy being awesome um do do hillhouse slash blind manna unbridled something when review the good tisms also irregulous hello i don't think i ever intended to make like a unbridled thing on them but i want to do a breakdown of lie the only issue i have with that one is um i kind of want to talk about hillhouse while talking about bligh in terms of what it improved on then it's like should i make one on hillhouse first then so that it's prepped like hmm well one way or another it's gonna be a huge project yeah because uh anything that's that long already being longified it's gonna be a long but uh yeah i do intend to make something on them eventually um baba buoy i'm just i just snider definitely got carried away because that four by three decision was really fucking stupid like not when you're making a super a mainstream superhero movie like people are too accustomed to like having that room on the sides when you're doing traditional shot reverse shot like if you do that on a four by three ratio if you're doing shot reverse shot we either like put the character frame the both characters in the center of the frame for each shot which just looks weird when you're cutting back and forth or you can kind of like space them out but then they're touching the edges of the frame you can't do that two-thirds golden ratio thing with like the the blocking of uh actors in the frame like you need that space like i think that's one of the most important things that happened in the evolution of film you know more than sound more than color is just widening the canvas because there's more like storytelling opportunity i think with that extra space on the sides more closely matches the way that we see the world we see more to the sides than up and down right isn't that important to us you know most stuff that we see is going to be in front of us um right probably explains why we can see more to the sides um but i mean you can see it in in that film the stuff that was shot when it was going to be in theaters there's a lot of space above their heads but the stuff yeah made specifically for four by three like the dark side CGI stuff and that nightmare sequences all framed better right wasn't meant to be this way the that's where my biggest contention is i am pretty much chill with whatever ratio you want to go with obviously barring absurdities um but as long as like assuming you made it that way when you made it not that you fucking pulled that out of your ass when you wanted to make the film look completely different to Joss's vision like that's when it's like oh okay and there's just loads of examples of how that's obviously what happened um right because unfortunately for him we've seen a different vision that has similar shots or a lot of the same ones and so we know what he was working with and then what they did with it and what this is not uncommon um just to shoot something that is not the same as what it's going to end up being but knowing that ahead of time uh and so you account for it and stuff and it's just yeah very odd and i don't think it worked out but hey made it look very different very artsy yeah um yeah so it's a joe biden joe biden wake up joe biden wake up i i don't i knew you guys called joe biden no not me all right but if i was joe biden i might not even be able to remember that i was so oh man that's the ultimate question uh theo is right about the clone wars and isn't full of shit there's an episode where obi fakes his own death and anakin doesn't realize the person he's hunting for revenge is obi in disguise sorry theo son sorry that's not just an episode that's an arc that's like three or four episodes yeah well awful it's really bad uh neither of you have seen it so you can't comment no i've seen that one no you haven't seen the whole show though yeah that's true so there you go i've seen that one i'm sure the clone wars is awesome and you guys are just being hyperbolic describing the storyline it's really bad uh good to see john on here eat the foam bigot uh so what are the subject will extra credits take on that everyone on the internet will make responses to i swear they're doing this for the publicity it didn't really work out though the view count on the video isn't exactly going well like for that yeah it's over 200k but still that shouldn't be anything special not for their subscriber count it's like what's going on and maybe they maybe that is the idea they're just like we can piss some people off it'll revitalize us a little bit those poor guys morning efap hope we're doing well uh good morning you know ringo planning on making an end game video damn you was hoping to have the ultimate take on that garbage movie oh well i'll make my critique regardless there's plenty for two people yeah absolutely yeah the components of the actual anti-life equation actually applicable to all life do all sentient beings experience despair and isolation hi rags hello uh i wouldn't know i do a comic book garbage don't don't think about it i was gonna say i don't think you need to go that far to actually consider i get valid it's just complete nonsense yeah i mean that who's writing an equation down somewhere like for anti-life found it yeah how was it written in an intelligible language like who discovered it like is is the point that someone's supposed to find it is that why somebody's etching it on a rock or leaving it in a notepad in a drawer somewhere what are the odds that it was no one will ever find it all the planets they could have left that on in the multi-verse you know weird huh like that's whole snider cut feels like they approached avengers with like a checklist of like okay we need like three fucking items cubes okay fine mother boxes yes or fine uh big bad guy uh big cgi man steppenwolf uh he needs to have like a leader because we need like an overarching Thanos type person of course dark side because it's dc like just very mechanical fill in the blank and well they're marvel but more mature that's what i've heard oh we have fair it's for adults yeah we we're marvel but for adults so true um haven't seen the extra credits video i predict orcs remind me of black people therefore other people are racist also hi rex hello we kind of that video we saw where the guy was like if i feel this way about your stuff i'm just gonna go it's like okay i feel like that's just the inevitability that i was like we're not going to talk about anything if i don't like it i'm out so is it the half-life three equation hi rags remember to drink your rhino milk oh i never forget the anti-fun equation equals mohler plus ragu plus pausing plus long man slash objectivity slash bad i would say it creates fun that's what i reckon uh dc let new be a real one happen they deserve way more than snider i have no idea what that is how can i sleep with that camera new be a real one yeah maybe it's a comic i don't know let me take a look draw you at your power store new be a real one oh it's new be a colon real one 27 percent like this book interesting um um uh let's see from the witty and powerful voice behind a blade so black oh can uh can you be a hero if society doesn't see you as a person guess what race new be is good stop new be a has always been a bit different as a baby she showcased amazonian strength by pushing over a tree to rescue her neighbor's cat but despite new be as similar abilities the world has no problem telling her that she's no wonder woman and even if she was they wouldn't want her every time she comes to the rescue she's reminded of how people see her as a threat what her moms do their best mine i have yeah her her her moms do their best oh i guess she has two moms no okay um her moms do their best to keep her safe but new be a can't deny the fire within her even if she's a little awkward about it sometimes even if it means people assume the worst when new be his best friend quisha is threatened by a boy who thinks he owns the town new be a will risk it all her safety her home and her crush on that cute kid in english class to become the hero society tells her she isn't from the witty and powerful voice behind a blade so black l l mckinney and with endearing and expressive art by robin smith comes a vital story for today about equality identity in kicking it with your squad i hate comics i don't know that's comics fault right there let's check out a preview let's go to the next page the art is pretty this is our first page it's great i want y'all to see this this is this is a hero cool i love that it's um is she like meant to be very tall or what yeah i could i guess look at like the bottom left picture of her putting the gauntlets on she is very tall oh no no no let me that is a very squat torso as well yeah i guess that's what's because it's she doesn't look like tall there's something not i don't know it's a bit high waisted proportions yeah high waisted yeah i think that's the swaya kira toriama draws characters that they have these huge long legs but really squat torsos so that they look like they have these herculean physiques but they can also be just the right same size as you fellow reader speaking of herculenean herculenean physiques damn girl what is going on with the pov in this shot like it's from above but it's a frame panel well it's weird it makes her sitting up look to be just about as tall as wonder woman standing up or unless she's standing on her knee no she's on her knee i'm not sure that the perspective in this in this uh in this frame is is correct no it's on the end mean to someone's i love the diminishing points are way off like you got you got those lines in the background giving a different feel to the whole thing perspective weird thing looks weird you just hate it because it's not what you're used to well i mean it's funny because when it comes to like art it's a lot easier to just say that something just plain is or isn't working which is super helpful so on on goodreads.com 490 ratings put this out of 4.47 out of five i don't believe them i don't believe that's legitimate well maybe it is really good we haven't had a good uh i mean maybe maybe this is actually amazing i hope so so anyway honestly brad bird director of incredibles and mission impossible ghost protocol would have done a better job with the dc universe more specifically a superman movie that's a guarantee yeah absolutely just just don't even go with like brad bird and the director of no no no just say some guy ronnie he would have done some guy ron yeah ronnie some guy i saw he's the homeless guy who's who hangs out behind the arby's on west 32nd um yeah ronnie would do a better job than zack snider like ronnie he's like you know like should superman laser everybody already gets up here or should he be like just confused he goes i guess he should just be confused why laser everybody i feel like this is a weird thing to have him do it it's like thank you ronnie put that in give me a sandwich and i'll write your screenplay yeah love how much love how steppenwolf is told he needs to conquer 50 000 worlds when it would be more realistic to say 47 392 world well you could argue that desard is just rounding it for all we know you know yeah but what if you lose track you know well maybe he's gotta written down himself and he's like i'm gonna update you every time you cross 500 you know i'll be like 50 k 49 and a half k blah blah blah you wouldn't want to make it that complicated you know but yeah yeah uh watching the ifa bad log now at 58 hi rags hi there that means they're like a whole two years the one year behind no way you're in a half behind us there you go you'll get here eventually rags is i am gonna leave you now uh oh my goodness the wrestling is about to start oh is it now minutes yes um it's why don't you why don't you be like oh the people who are like wait where's mal going where do i find him why don't you tell them i don't know right now i'm in my flat uh you can just knock the door and i won't open because i don't know you uh no i was just that was so stupid i don't regret it at all i appreciate that joke uh no mostly yeah the view she is posted that's where you mostly find me on my twitch rooney uh just playing the gorms whatever i feel like pretty much uh yeah other than that just trying to chop away on that john rick video i probably have to adjust my schedule because every time i want to walk on the weekend something else comes up because real life is a thing unfortunately and then people want something from you so i am i might have to sacrifice i might have to sacrifice like one one or two days of streaming each week if i ever want to finish that video it's like this is the whole time thing is pretty coomy time is gay it's time is it's a bit gay uh again otherwise you'll see me on all this weird e-fab stuff those filthy animals on e-fab that i'm doing stuff with yeah that i think that's about it i don't have nothing else to add all righty then we shall catch you in the future mr metal have yourself a good razzle see you around yeah nice talking you metal yeah same bye bye always good see you dudes rags is totally rachelet from archer hi rags i can see that potentially gonna make what rags want to google it now but rachelet yeah archer rachelet not because you look like him but almost you can't you kind of do remind me of him now that uh now that uh somebody's mentioned it rachelet let's see let's see it's not a huge resemblance but there's something i don't look anything like him well i dude i literally just said well you just said resemblance i don't know why you would use that word if you don't expect him to think you're talking about how you oh okay as it is like his attitude his um well i mean he's got a little bit of a southern twang to him a little bit but it's kind of refined you know wow oh unlike me no with that i said that you like him why are you making it so hard for me to make this point rags is a verbal terrorist yeah it's nice i'm a verbal terrorist why cuz he's gay fringy what but but rags is uh is is by uh what's his face it's just gay so gay people can't be by what the fuck wow not very inclusive i know we'd get there so much for the tolerant fringy justice is rags a shore leave from venture bros let me look that one up uh justice is gray is the most edgy ass name anyone could have unintentionally given to a cut of a film i mean it is the edgiest thing in the world justice is gray bad imagine thinking that movie like justifies that fucking subtitle yeah justice is great at least i remember somebody made this fake joker poster and they put joker and the subtitle was dawn of society and they did such a convincing job on it i was just like is that fucking real no it can't be like it yeah with him you never know that would have been so funny if that was the actual title that should be a real well there is something called the justice society in dc so oh really what out yeah that's uh i think they're gonna probably introduce i think they're introducing it in black adam with uh with uh what the fuck is it the guy who's in everything oh the rock yeah dwayne johnson oh yeah he's in everything well he's awesome so that's me i mean i do like him um he seems like a cool dude but he's in everything yeah and when he is in stuff it's too self-referential you know for it like it's getting those jokes about his muscles and like his eyebrow thing it's getting that way because it's just everybody knows who he is and everybody knows kind of like what he looks like and everything so yeah it is yeah it's like if your movie casts the rock your movie is now a vanity vehicle for the rock where he just gets to flex and how about we put a line in here about how fucking like shredded i am like okay dwayne are you super shredded though let's let's rewrite this scene yeah yeah yeah watching watching all this hit and run footage man get me so nostalgic for this game get to explore springfield it was so cool i was so happy get to explore springfield like seeing all of these locations i remember and all these references hit and runs will just like a safe space for me nothing bad happens here it's just fun yeah except for if you run over half more no fun or loud all right that's not a simpson's hit and run would be a little different well i wonder what's next night is hit and run would look like homerism oh what would it be what would it be well you're you'd have us peripheral vision maybe mr burns would be the protagonist you know yeah because i mean iron rand or something i wish i'd never learned that because now i just keep reading it into everything he does one of my first games ever was a simpson's game on like windows 95 called virtual springfield i fucking love that game man because you got to like it's like a point and click travel around the town sort of thing kind of like um those i think i remember as for the adventure games work on the dvds like you step one think one step forward and back and you turn left and right mm-hmm like but it's all like point and click that's really cool that's all of like gags and stuff well look that one up i my first one was uh was uh road rage so yeah and that and even that game was really cool but then when hit and run came out it was like oh my god this is like i played them in reverse unfortunately and so i was just like oh road rage is just a simpler version of hit and run um obviously what i mean by that is the form of gameplay in road rage is crazy taxi while hit and run has missions in it that are akin to crazy taxi while also doing a bunch of other things well simpson's hit and uh simpson's hit and run is basically just if if there was a uh grand theft auto version of the simpson's but a little more structured all simpson's games were they were just it's the simpson's but this is a wrestling game this is a skateboarding game this is do you remember uh the simpson's game do you remember that one yeah i didn't like it as much no uh it's fun for a simpson's fan it's all right yeah yeah as a game it wouldn't whereas i think hit and run uh even if you don't really like the simpson's you can get something out of it it was funny to think about games like that because i think that uh i think that the the fractured but hole uh the south park one wait you mean the fractured but hole yeah the fractured but hole yeah that's right um i think that game is like pretty solid as a as like an action art well as a turn-based rpg but it's so it's so um south park that even though mechanically it's pretty sound if you don't like south park it probably would be really difficult to play that game because it's just such a south park show there's so much south park content that you have to get through so obviously i fucking love it but i can understand other people didn't really get much out of it i thought the story was weaker in that one than uh stick of truth yeah i'm inclined to agree yeah yeah the the second one felt a little i didn't really know where it was going i felt i think by the end of mitch kona stuff it kind of started to uh lose this way a bit yeah it tried to wrap up it wrapped up everything anticlimactically with like the missing cat that they set up at the beginning they find the cat but it's like really underwhelming and then it's credits it's like oh that sucks but in the stick of truth you had that great scene where it's like they're the boys are by the pond and they have the stick and they throw it in the lake it's like this is too much power for one to handle it's like it's great ending scene even though it's totally dumb but like it's a great way of like it's a nice little story right of like yeah wielding that power even if it's just in their heads it's such a neat what a great idea to turn south park a game just the boys playing pretend like yeah and then superhero uh which makes me wonder what if they're gonna do another one what it would be because um i'm not sure what the next one could be they've done the fantasy one and they've done like the superhero one um which was already something they had like the koon and all that so i wonder what they you know it took me a long time to even realize what was funny about the name the koon it took a long time i was like oh yeah he's the koon it's like wait a minute yeah i don't see it happening to be honest because like they did the second one because they thought like the first one fell short and we could do it better and then they did the second one but they encountered so much bullshit like because ubi soft i guess forced them to do dlc and other shit they didn't want to do at that point and the story just wasn't as punchy as like the first one and and there's no like big trend to make fun of right now because it's still we're still on like superheroes yeah in like film so i don't know i don't know what they would make a game about and i don't think they're motivated to to do it anyway well you know i wouldn't mind if they actually made something totally new as like a video i would love that too yeah that would be great right zack snider is the david cage of film i think that is pretty apt to be honest with you who is david cage ah he made heavy he's a zack snider of video games oh so he's what is that quantic dream yeah that's the one that's the right detroit become human shallow stupid blade runner yeah it's not an allegory i promise he says as he makes an android right i have a dream on makes you think i wonder what it means no no i do yeah i don't know do androids dream of electric sheep who knows shoehorn did some dick power as well because i think the other option you can write is i think therefore i am it's really deep it's very deep hashtag release the rest of ifa 130 release the rags cut high rags the rags cut would have just been an extra hour of you being like so the snider cut is really bad okay yeah it's really shit guys i just learned the other day that there's a chorus i learned there's a cut of i think days of future past called the rogue cut yeah and it just has one deleted scene with rogue in it well the story just add one deleted scene you call it like the cut of whatever the character is in the scene remember the story changes a little bit because they have to collect her and she's used to help keep logan back in time i think yeah that's right oh because uh kitty gets like slashed so they need to get hurt there's really fucking inconvenient rogue is so fucking cool man what a great idea for a character she can't touch anybody because she would kill them and take their powers it's really cool keep like yeah that's that's awesome i i feel like uh when we talk about how like overpowered a lot of the heroes being becoming in the mcu i feel like the mutants could be a really good way to bring it back down because they kill all of the people who are powerful well it's just well i mean it's just such an emphasis in x-men on the caveats of the superpowers whereas like a lot of the other characters it's just these powers are awesome like skull which oh man i can like control reality whereas with damn it's like i can't die and i see everybody else die before me it's like yeah it doesn't seem so fun when you frame it through that lens that's what x-men much more open about exploring is the the the curse that is these powers yeah and also how people would respond to it like if we lived in a world where you had some people like if you had someone like magneto that's pretty terrifying this is just a regular person yeah museum account you'd be like he's a good guy right through x-men is wasted potential like as a concept of well i don't know i'm arguing with we're not arguing but i feel like x-men is a yes we are in blood significantly it's where uh the oh sorry i was leaning over the x-men is has like explored that topic pretty thoroughly it makes me wonder especially if they're going to integrate him in the mcu how are you going to retain the uh the persecution component of x-men because that's like so fundamental to the story well hey falcon can't get alone yeah well maybe yeah maybe maybe uh you know you got um Wolverine trying to get alone you would imply for a moment that like maybe the world would never even treat them this way because it's so used to magical people and i was like hey they don't care about continuity like wow yeah i guess i was trying to treat it like they were gonna do it seriously but that might be my mistake my mistake was thinking they cared god i'm so cynical about the mcu now i'm very curious about spider-man three me sir um i want to see what they do with it it sounds interesting please be good please be good please be good please be good please be good please uh him all right can't stay because of work tomorrow but i wanted to know what you think of invincible show on amazon if you don't know also hi rex hi a lot of people recommend and it's that it's a 10 time recommended in like two days yeah obviously we haven't seen it maybe we will at some point lots of people talking about i watched walley today and it was the opposite of the snider cut you know brilliant and great also a reminder blind man and bad because gay and non-white yeah that's rough if you think that that's fucked up i've heard plenty of arguments that go outside of that like it's boring or it's not scary or so plenty of arguments have been said and i don't appreciate this really good so many arguments god walley is so awesome the buffy season i was surprised how scathing the satire was yeah it's pretty harsh like it's such a big middle finger to like a whole human race that movie i love it i mean the film is literally like just don't end up like this guys please to the point where you see like a little flower growing it's like oh my god jesus christ what is this um obviously season five finale was fantastic i even teared up at one point during the scene near the end which reminded me of a alien three i know what you're talking about and yeah the gift is considered one of the best episodes of buffy ever really good rightly so good finale um i think that was that was your tipping point right fringy yeah it was at that point that i was ready to accept that show was great it took me a while because of seasons one and two and then four was kind of a slip again um to finally be like yeah i'm in it for the i'm in it for the long haul now on i did a fucking austin powers somehow look at this watch so many star trek i think you guys would like spark because he's an objective boa or maybe um an objective borer no he's not a great he's a great side character well it's spelled but he would be a terrible protagonist what is an objective like boa i don't know if they meant to say bore but boah or objective boy maybe all right yeah he's an objective boy yeah say boi for boy okay jesus boy boy boy uh all right all right i'm just mizzled also picard is like rep off of mohler rip off maybe um well yeah he definitely ripped me off this pesky writers copying my life god zilla vs kong was objectively better than this night a cut i'm not even look i'm sure it was more fun but like from the little i know about that movie it seems insane like some of the things people have been saying about the plot there was me thinking it was going to be kong and god zilla just fight but there is so much more going on in that movie oh it could never be that simple yeah um we can't just give people what they want well apparently people did get what they wanted so there's that but i suppose they added in a bunch of other yeah people said in god zilla king of the monsters everybody says like oh yeah that's we got what we wanted it's like did you though it's like 90 a lot of people have um the sentiments changed on that film since it came out like yes people have started to admit like yeah okay king the monsters actually did suck since only like seven minutes of monsters in it and it was like a two hour plus movie finally singing our tune because fuck me when i saw that i was really disappointed with how much human garbage was in it i hated god zilla king of the monsters i found that really frustrating and hard to watch like it gave me a headache like the just the way it was you couldn't see anything and the sound design was really like obtrusive like there's just annoyed like an assault on the senses it's the same thing rise of skywalker did to me the salt on my sense of sense you know sometimes sense for me this is a concept yeah like king of the monsters reminded me of like a role in emirac movie it was doing so much shit that annoyed me in that film yeah you know there's a character who's like i'm the man who like knows what's really going on mr vice president that kind of thing yeah that's why i like that movie he always talks like this because he is a hero and it's like who the fuck are you like who are you yeah the human stuff in god zilla versus kong is emirac level cringe but i like i like the monster stuff i mean the grand zilla king of the monsters isn't as good as the patriot though i would take the patriot over kong versus god zilla there i said it i haven't even seen the movie and i said it but i am interested in seeing monkey punch monkey fight yeah if this happens for longer than like 30 minutes i think that's satisfactory i think it'll be that long though it costs a lot of money yeah i know we can only they just need about two trailers worth of fighting yeah we can scrape that by come on maybe this would be the time to bring theatrical shorts back just to have monkey versus uh lizard treat like wrestling like yeah oh yeah have god zilla walk out with like dramatic music playing and like i'm getting a divorce from you god zilla he shows the fight over me god zilla i'm taking the monkey babies yeah it's important kong is this new up-and-comer everyone's really like excited about and god zilla's like i gotta defend i defend my honor uh hi guys and rags quick question oh hi will you be releasing an efat movies for the snider cut uh it is being worked upon i believe the next one is probably gonna be suicide squad but i'm not a hundred percent clear on that yet it's the meme repository is sorting it out but uh there will definitely be an efat movie snider cut one day uh you might have said this already but what do you think of falcon slash winter soldier so far yeah it's terrible um they haven't justified a lot of the payoffs that they want storytelling wise they're doing the thing that we said where someone comes in they're like i want my story to be about this and it's like oh you can't really tell that story in this continuity it's like i will anyway okay yeah so i'm gonna cause several problems um whoever's writing the dialogue it pains me like i hate listening to people be completely over it but everything they think and feel and thus aren't if i can have any wiggle room to understand anybody it's just it is what it is i don't feel like people anymore and i think they're wasting the potential they have with both of the characters on the storyline and then i think the other big criticism we had was um fuck me the way they're handling this new captain america guy do you know who i am we gotta watch the new episode and i've been told he does evil in it so that's great yeah well i saw the picture yeah anyway uh but who knows maybe they'll pull it together by the last episode like one division yeah uh does filmento have a vor fetish with that thumbnail perhaps perhaps he considers that the upgrade you know you need to involve a little bit of war and then batman vs superman will be of higher quality uh also have you seen the lost soviet lord of the rings i was linked that uh and and my god what the fuck do you guys know about this no i heard about it yeah i saw a screenshot an unlicensed adaptation of little the rings in russia from ages ago and it's only just now been dug up i love to watch this it looks insane and nonsense and putting like at the same time pretty funny maybe we could sort out something of an efat movies for it i don't know i would be super interested in watching it uh uh he weakened warrior which is where snider cut jostus or attack on titan so he's not here but i would imagine he thinks attack on titan is worse than both he seems very personally upset by it um the ending i mean and then he i think he still thinks the the joss cut is worse than the snider cut uh god zillivis is calling is like transformers you don't like it because it's well written you like it because of the violence and or explosions but why not both though yeah both there's no reason to believe that you can't make a good godzilla movie for real i wish they were just cut out the human characters just like yeah hello just just kong and godzilla shows up and that's it that's how the film starts the reason they're in that movie is so fucking stupid that the human characters like there's no point we just i mean the last movie they were trying to destroy the world so it doesn't get stupider than that uh dark side versus the dawn would be like deep sea king versus mumen rider with you you reckon the dawn would be the winner yeah that's that's what you're saying dark side wouldn't stand a chance against the dawn i agree i mean it's dark side we have to make a big inspirational speech though so yeah you can probably rally some people um is it wrong that i started cheering for step mulff when superman started arrogantly and sadistically destroying him and lasering his horn off um it's just awkward you're watching you're like i don't know about rooting for him yeah i don't want him to destroy earth but at the same time it's just like damn you never stood a chance but he's just gonna laser to death it was it i think i was more distracted by the fact i was watching superman do that i was just like wow whatever yeah well the superman is he's like so fucking powerful that like part of him as a character is like he's incorruptible like uh morally i guess so like seeing him like really beat up on someone and like lose like lose his shit a little bit it's just like holy shit superman like calm down well yeah because of course this if we never have to like blow up the planet if we piss him yeah if you never have to think about him being evil then you can just be like it's superman but the second he does anything that's vaguely close you're like oh shit what if he did kill all of us oh no yeah not incorruptible in this fucking universe or whatever because snider can't go a single frame without going oh but what if superman was evil though what if lois lane died and he went crazy all i have to do to introduce this idea is show it there's nothing else to it no justification anywhere shape of phone just look at him he's laser and people run i just love like being on set and he's we're setting up the laser sequences like why is superman doing this like he's confused that's really not enough zack i i need more than that and he's like no you don't he's already stopped listening yeah he's like can you get ready go on this is the thing that i find weird um because joss ween's been called out a lot for being like i don't care about your notes on the characters to people is is that to imply that zack does and that means that gal gadot and um henry cavill signed off and what happened with their characters in these movies because holy shit like i'm assuming you guys don't strike me as the kind who would yeah i picture he just did whatever he was told and he enjoys it as much as he can or whatever because he's not that seems to be what was going on but the implication being that like gal gadot was like oh i don't want what the fuck did she do in joss's version that she had a problem with was it the part where she admitted she shouldn't have been hiding from people for a hundred years because that's it was good that he threw that in it helped that character a lot because otherwise she isn't one i don't know what the fuck happened but at the same time like snited to me doesn't seem like the kind of person who's like oh you know gal what do you think wonder woman should be doing seems to me that he has it blowing up buildings well i guess that's an interesting thing though in terms of the nature of you know cool this is kind of the reason why i don't think i ever want to make a film because i'd want to control like every aspect of it i don't know how much i would want people's notes or feedback or anything like that and but the thing is it's like it's it's film it's collaborative so you kind of have to accept that um i guess i guess it depends on how receptive you are like if you're working with someone really talented and awesome you probably would want to know what they have to say like if you were yeah hopefully you know i picture myself being like i'd be totally on board with it but what do you do when someone like gal Gadot says i think wonder woman should wear a clown outfit in this scene you'd be like well i know no like sorry that's not we're not doing that um and then the nature of your refusal could be used like fucking days later as an example of how you're just horrible to work with because you're not even going to take this seriously but this happens on like film sets sound like i would never want to work on a film set honestly it seems like a hell of a slant scene no it sucks balls yeah well you've you've worked on film sets right yeah it's terrible everyone wants to die it seems like everybody's really mad and on edge it's stressed out because there's so much that has to get done and working to a deadline and all that and competing egos i feel like that's probably a big part of it too wait uh there's a episode of The Simpsons where he's Bart's like backstage crusty show he's like wow show business isn't this great some some grip is just like kill me now please kill me now something like that just have a big memory that like what am i wish i was dead i'm now thinking about the radio actor where uh where millhouse was working on the movie and it's like millhouse we've got to shoot this scene again it's like but we did it it took us 15 hours but we did god it's like well no we have to shoot it again and again and again and again i just ran over bill has by the way if that movie samurai cop and kung pao or kung pao into the fist i think that was what was called right kung pao legend of the fist enter into the fist um yeah possibilities down the line who really knows mullin rags watch the marvel show called legion it's trippy like the first three wander vision episodes oh no that sounds like it could have to be really bad that's a wait it's a marvel show is it i'm assuming it's outside no it's i think it's i think it's supposed to be part of the mcu but like in the same way that the uh the netflix shows are which is basically not like there's not much overlap at all the door is open to bring in the characters but they're off to the side perpetually until then yeah well the problem is um i don't know how many people are aware of this but like the way that it worked before it does now was that there was marvel studios and marvel television they were different departments and they were run by different people so like agents of shield like that's marvel but it's it's marvel television which means it's not the same creative team and now it's all marvel studios which um i'm guessing that they're treating as sort of a blank slate to do whatever they want so i wouldn't be surprised if um i would be surprised if they toss deadable completely to the side and rebooted i don't think they would i think that there's enough which makes me happy because i think charlie cox was great in that role i think there's enough push to get that to happen but like i don't know about everybody else i don't know about any of the other characters including the people in agents of shield i think there are i think it's safe to assume that they're not going to be a part of this series going forward yeah i think a lot of tv writers working right now don't work hard enough like yeah the material is just not i would fucking agree with you i would extend that to movies as well to be honest with you i think there is a lack of emphasis put on writing which is basically just the core like that is that is the story everything else is important but it's kind of there's only so much you can do if the script sucks go take arbitrary boxes like did it have a fight in each episode good it's like oh yeah black female protagonist yes or that's always something that really bugged me about film sets where like you see you're on there you see how fucking hard everyone's working and how many hours and how many days in a row and the script sucks it almost always sucks and it's just like dude like just some guy in his chair typing away she turns out whatever dog shit he doesn't care like everything else always we find kind of nuts is like you know stay a person a character's parents visit for an episode and this just tells you a lot about the history whatever and those two people who play their parents are like thank fuck work and then it's like not until another season later the writer goes i can probably have them back in this episode actually thinking about it maybe maybe not and stuff like that decides whether or not someone has a career sometimes it's pretty nuts yeah i know it's crazy um and then they like do bring you back and you're like oh sweet and you read the script and you die and you're like no i want to be able to i want to come back for another episode please i've had my life savings to come to the big city to la yeah dream yeah but i wanted to play uh cop assistant number five in the background of scene 37 b which was eventually cut from the final release god there are so many people who that's their life and i can't i can't fathom that i'd want to blow my fucking brains out if that was like constant extra yeah like yeah exactly and then have a man la seems like the kind of city where your soul just gets ripped out of you yeah it's also like a fun environment i was there briefly just for like a few days and walking around in public i got this sense that there was no social fabric like nobody give a shit about anybody i mean i i guess you can apply this broadly to a lot of different cities but there's something uniquely like everybody was so felt so self-absorbed and like because i would observe things in their behavior too right and things they would say to each other and let people being rude to each other unnecessarily like it's just it's like a cold kind of a it's kind of a cold and kind of friendly place to be that's what it kind of felt like i don't i'm actually wondering why arby and the chief would move there yeah good question uh jay's law equals people will use any excuse to recommend media that's otherwise unrelated watch star trek because one character's objective okay at least i don't need an excuse to remind you dumbo's about ddlc like people want to find a way to make it sound as though it was prompted or relevant okay they don't want to make it sound like they're just saying hey watch this i understand why it happens i just find it amusing oh you guys talked about lord the rings today check out blah blah blah because it's good like lord of the rings the connection i guess uh cold take the monster fights in god's ill of his kong was shit it's just two cgi things punching one another again and again well i mean that just because it's cgi that's not strictly productive should have been a real godzilla no i i i disagree i really thought the fight scenes were quite well done i uh well i mean i'm assuming the how complicated can the choreography really get to with those two right yeah they're not that bright was they're too big i think uh means that there there is a there's a limit to how complex it could get which is totally fine like it doesn't need to be complex i like the idea that he fucking punches godzilla in the jaw i'm like that sounds awesome that sounds really cool it's almost like yeah but there's really lame choreography i don't know why i don't know that's a motivation i can understand well it's not gonna exactly be like the raid two when it's godzilla versus kong like it's a giant monkey versus a giant lizard the problem is they didn't specify exactly what the issue was so maybe they have a huge assay to deliver exactly why the fighting maybe the cgi wasn't very good you know i don't know i haven't seen it oh i i also heard by the way that like godzilla versus kong has been massively successful for like hbomax that like people are actually buying into i just find it amusing that people were trying to review bomb that film like nah we want the sniderverse and like the actual audience is spoken that godzilla versus kong yeah yeah the actual audience spoke for the snider cut they what did they say like 50% of them fucking didn't finish it oh it was more than 50% it was something like 70% i think 68% something like that that's pretty hilarious i don't blame them well yeah i was developing a headache when we got to the end it's like yeah moeller made me sign a fucking contract that i had to finish it i didn't want to but he said well you got it for this and you know we have a lawyer do you remember when we were like did we pull us halfway through and it wasn't we considered it was just like we couldn't just there's plenty of time to talk you know because there's so much nothing in the yeah there's so much not happening yeah i remember that point i think yeah i think i was the one who was like we were halfway through it and i said hey we sort of agreed to stop this halfway through should we stop and we were all just like nah just no point let it run just let it roll might have been worth it to get a drink i don't know just remember that life is a thing i do like monkey versus lizard out pastes knight a cut justice is gray that's funny monkey versus lizard it feels like such an unfair fight though because godzilla is so much cooler and more powerful like godzilla's way cooler than kong more i think but godzilla should win that fight do you like kong more do you oh i said people not me all right people yeah i don't really have a preference one's a big lizard the others among i i i feel if they did more personality with kong i might like him more because he is he's an ape so he is a higher form of life than you know a lizard in a sense they do that though and this does that's what's cool about it so they actually give them like personalities i was gonna say yeah they make they make kong the main character essentially right i was gonna say like godzilla has some characteristics vaguely from what you see of him doing in the movies like he doesn't seem to be evil or anything of it in the sense i don't think either of them are supposed to be evil generally like in fact most of the time the whole point is that where the arseholes and that like the monsters are the ones who are restoring balance you know almost restoring balance is the atomic breaths to see well yeah i guess that's the thing is like in the first godzilla he you know he he stops the bad guys i do like the ending of the first movie how godzilla looks like he's i'm so i'm too old for this shit like just i'm going like the face yeah like a monkey face is easier to get to i can believe that can emote you know yeah yeah um i guess uh yeah that i guess well i imagine that like lizards and stuff do emote it's just not in a way that's as easy for us to notice because obviously gorillas are a lot closer to human beings they probably also want godzilla to be a little bit more dare i say stoic and mysterious compared to kong kong is a lot more understandable especially with a lot of his content you know like there's always the girl who can like appeal to him in some way shape of godzilla is usually just like i mean he didn't kill all day at that time the beast oh yeah that's yeah i like the idea that kong can do things like appreciate beauty and recognize art on some primitive level and that he could see something is like oh wow this girl's hot yeah i want to see him now and he's like yeah he's looking at van go yeah it's like the lighting is incredible he was really a brilliant mind gone too soon you read lord of the rings it's like for mona's use of color in an abstract so in a sense i listening to some vacna oh no hold on then mind that make him racist um well yeah if you read lord of the rings and he's like i'm uncomfortable with the orcs as an allegory and like oh no kong please orbs remind me of me why are they evil they are right actually it are boromir who am evil i'm glad he died and suffer it's like a full non-carry dice flow it's a full character analysis written of boromir and he was boromir alive when go over waterfall i like the idea now oh i kind of want this movie to exist now of like it's just king kong sitting in skull island on like a chair reading yeah just reading books man like and he's got his glasses on like his little reading glasses licks his finger and he turns the pages he's like tiny little tea cup and yeah his tea cup or like and he's in that you know that sleeping gown that people or the you know little slippers they wear yeah yeah slippers and there's a fireplace and it's just Godzilla reading books oh hi uh hi didn't see you there didn't see you there yeah every like hour or so a random like denizen of skull island like one of the other monsters there stumbled across and there's a big fight scene and then he just dusts himself up sorry about that he goes and sits back down i can already think of the talking about horrible book reviews um randomly yesterday i think um i just happened to stumble again randomly across some just some guy who reviews books and his his five and a half minute review of sun zoos the art of war he he says he doesn't recommend it do not read it what are you serious i'm i am i am as serious he's entitled to his opinion bigots i feel like i feel like the art of war should be required reading such an interesting book it is nice let me see if i can find it um i was thinking of um if it was a movie though the kong versus art or whatever um the one of the one of the endings to a scene when he's talking about his favorite media is he says like smash brothers and then the character goes someone's like oh who do you like to play as and he looks at the screen with like a unimpressed face and then and then it cuts the next scene the art of war or the prince oh fuck um i feel like the art of war has a war you can finish it well yeah but the i mean i think the prince like the art of war is yeah the prince is really small the art of war i feel like appeals to more fundamental things that are really interesting and useful like there are easy ways for you to read into the art of war or like the things that it says that you could apply to any circumstance in life whereas the prince is a lot more specifically about leadership and politics so if you if you want to be a politician if you probably would rather what read the prince i think what about you it sounds like you had thoughts on that p.o what would you write i've read the prince a bunch of times haven't actually read the art of war haven't had a chance uh i just wanted to say yeah uh the prince is very much it's about leading being a good ruler and there's things you can read out of that and extract from that regarding you know particularly on a moral stratum because of course morality is involved it's making decisions as a leader and it's quite noteworthy especially for the time macchiavelli's particular regard or lack thereof for morality's place within leadership one thing you notice about him is he has very little faith in the average person yeah wasn't he wasn't he italian yes yes he was italian he's surrounded by mobsters all the time the mob controlled everything over there in the renaissance all he all he his entire world was mobsters and pizza so you know you eventually just have well i like i don't know you have pizza over and over and over and over again when you're surrounded by mobsters well what if you put all different kinds of things on it can we can we still call it a pizza if we have like other no you can't he didn't have that kind of freedom on the count of the mafia they had strict it was like it was it was it was a guild back then the mob guild um and they they had their fingers in the the pizza guild and there were very strict rules on what you were and we're not allowed to have on your pizzas so for instance they come and they break a leg would you be allowed to have pasta pizza we're about pie pizza i'm sorry oh i'm sorry that's that's insensitive so that's my review of macchiavelli's the prince it's matcha valley dumbass macchiavelli macchiavelli so somebody say isn't that based on adcio i like that reference well he references chesney borger like all the time he's like chesney borger's like the giga chat and it's like the guy did everything right which is uh funny because it's it's funny as the longer like time went on assassins creed became more and more like i'm pretty sure that um i'm pretty sure that they made julia caesar a Templar which is like mm i feel like i feel like uh the more i think about caesar the more i find him very interest well i mean he was always interesting but more so like he's always the analogy for like the power hungry maniac but like from what i understand he was super popular with uh with romans yeah he was very really liked him um and it's kind of a situation of you had in killing him they basically destroyed the republic anyway they were trying to save the republic by killing him and and in doing that like so the cynic can just go around and stab people uh well it was their logic because he was basically he was making himself essentially a dictator for life um and like it was becoming less and less able to um to to affect change the the senators so they yeah they assassinate him and then that just paved the way for augustus to wreck shit at the takeover so yeah they destroyed the empire anyway uh favorite mcu iron man suit would probably be the first proper suit up in iam m1 uh yeah that's mark pretty right the mark three suit um i like the avengers ones as well both before and after yes they're pretty cool uh the suitcase suit was cool like in a general sense um did not like the age of ultron one looked weird yeah that one was that one was pretty awful to be honest with you i like the civil war ones quite a bit they're cool the harm coming one's pretty neat yeah and then from the last one yeah i don't the infinity warning game ones that just they're losing what i kind of like about the aesthetic of iron man being much more of a clunky tank robot suit but also you know movable not like a horrible restrictive thing rather than a second suit of skin which is of course more suitable for nanotech i suppose but like i don't know i just didn't like the look of it it's the part of the appeal of iron man is the suit the armor right this is a cool melody to it that nanotech is too quick and loose like it's just there so the screen the screenplay can like do whatever make it do whatever it needs to do it is the thing we kind of just accepted it like i was a little like oh damn he's unlocked fucking nanotech in like there was there was implications of that in civil war with like the little watch he has that evolves into a full glove around him and it's just like you know like like a stepping stone if you will but at the same time it's just like damn you've got that now okay that seems sudden but man is it useful for filming because you get Robert Downey Jr's face pretty much all the time because he could just i ah man i i'm sick of them taking the helmets off all the time yeah these crazy really annoying yeah nanotech helmets that undoing like a second ant-man and the wasp both have nanotech now like it goes yeah every time we need to see their face they can't just be in costume all time and of course black panther suits they do the thing as well yeah but the black panther suit is worse the one in civil war so much better it looks real and it's cooler it can't be disabled by a stupid flute cannon yeah everybody's got to have crazy stupid nanotech helmets and it's really annoying just keep the helmets on no they're famous yeah we need to see their faces all the time it's dumb i know who i know who Paul Rudd is i know he's ant-man i don't need just wrong okay i know what you're talking about have you guys considered e fapping Sherlock i thought it was a strong show but rewatched with my family recently and it was howling with laughter by the last season maybe fun say hi to metal for me hello metal yeah that season's pretty rough um so this is the cumba bat show we're talking about yeah yeah have you seen all of it i have yeah yeah so i signed out at around season two or three and i remember when h problema guys video came out i was like yay i share all these opinions about why it's not good yeah um so i've heard that fans were very upset by the uh the last season or whatever and i just i don't know i don't think the show was ever that good it was um cool at some points but like i don't know but yeah the idea of doing i didn't mind series for it i doubt it we're probably gonna we'd rather do other things before that one martin freeman was in that one right he was yeah what's fun i liked him i like martin freeman in most things i like martin freeman in everything yeah he's um he's got a decent amount of people who really don't like him um really i remember seeing this in efab chat or somewhere else but i know there are people who think like he just plays the exact same person in everything and he's sort of stumbled into a list because he was just around i what what would they be siding for that what do they mean well that's the sentiment in full so i don't know but like i the idea that he's like similar i wouldn't really care to call like like i just i don't think he's very convincing as a as whatever character usually is but he's there's enough difference in like you played Arthur Morgan right is that the name of the guy in he tried to go to the galaxy then you've got uh yeah um obviously like the agent in the mcu is very different from uh like the character in world's end and yeah yeah and then uh what's the show we watched um oh fogo yeah he's fucking great in fogo fogo yeah yeah there you go i think fog is enough to conclude he's he's a good actor like in terms of range um but i don't think you have to have range to be a good actor if you're really good at playing a particular role then that's that's good enough at least in that context i think so yeah yeah i don't know maybe i could be moved on that but uh he's better as a support character than protagonists Arthur Dent Arthur Morgan's rdr2 why didn't you correct me on that i for a second i i said i said yeah and i was like wait a minute what the wait hold on like did i have the same name um yeah i don't know uh it might just be that people haven't seen him play different enough roles and maybe he can oh here's one for you that's on along those lines seth rogan is really good as uh steve was an act in uh steve jobs i agree yeah he is yeah he's really good in that when he usually just he's played stoner guy like a billion times wow that's why uh i like that as an example because i mean he's not playing a stoner guy in that movie he's playing you know wasnik and he does a super good job michael fastbender is really good he's good in everything yeah he's just a really phenomenal actor was he good in assassins creed probably he probably was good in assassin's creed he's good in everything it's just that he makes a lot of bad choices when it comes to the movies he does i have seen that movie but i don't well i remember about the assassin's creed movie is that everybody has a gimmick with their um their arm thing everybody's it's almost like super ability like you don't know what this person's gonna have it could be a grapple could be a man all kinds of different like a gas assassin's creed kind of bums me out as a series the first game is such a unique cool and original idea and um the man could climb anything he should be in assassin's creed you're right he's the greatest actor in fiction yeah like assassin's creed one is such a cool game the setting like the themes the themes are on point in that one and i don't think they're ever quite that good again except in uh three three is a weird one though because i don't really like it that much but i like the themes so i like your theme i don't know much about the story the gameplay uh didn't really compel me it was too like whole day and forward i i totally get that that's about it um i think that they should have evolved it from where they like you know in tune brotherhood you know it's like at that point the combat was becoming incredibly easy but the stealth was starting to get a little bit better but they never really i think they should have fully committed to doing stealth and yeah encouraging that but i mean in terms of like the the world the first one is the problem with assassin's creed is that it started off with a really interesting idea which is we have two factions the assassins who ultimately believe that the best world is one in which everybody has autonomy and the Templars who ultimately believe that the best world must be governed by like some sort of force that knows better than everybody else so it's basically just the fundamental of chaos versus order and both sides have good arguments for the side that they believe in and and and having it set against the backdrop of um of the crusades when you've got these competing ideologies and everything and then like the central narrative element is holy shit there's like an artifact here that like disproves all of these religions it's all bullshit like and it controls people's minds holy fuck we could use this like finally create the world that we believe in um and of course the the the villain having like evidence for how the way that things are isn't working in the backdrop of the crusades we have like all these people killing each other heretics and things like that so great and after that game with the exception of three they totally drop any pretense about uh about the Templars having a point they're just evil it's really lame that's that sounds cool so yeah no the first game got it started to get really heavy into this and it's and you you didn't even mention all of the like the desmond stuff uh i didn't that's true because like fuck because like fuck that uh it could they could have made it work but by the time that they as more and more time went on it's kind of started falling apart um alien race and end of the world and stuff like that it just got to be like what the fuck where where have we gone what's happening i think uh i think that's the interesting thing is that even even taking into account everything that comes afterwards assassins creed one feels like the one that i mean it's certainly the one that is the most rooted in history in the sense that like the the assassins were a real faction that existed and they were in syria and you know obviously the Templars were the Templars at that time and then sort of exploring these settings what's that the uh night's Templar so they yeah the night's Templar yeah um and having them and then all of these characters like Rebed the sub like you know these these are all well they've always had real people but it's it feels a lot more i think i think it's just because it's it's a less conventional setting whereas the as the settings got more and more conventional was like yeah of course connor knows george washington like yeah of course connor knows um or not kind of like yeah of course um of course they met napoleon in france or yeah of course they met queen victoria i think when you're doing history that's a little less known you can get away like i don't know how many people know about the well maybe i'm totally wrong here but i'm not sure how many people know who the borgias are or they are or they um fuck what was the other one damn it no it's gone but you know what i mean like yeah it's uh he meets da vinci it's you meets da well he does meet da vinci which is probably the first time where it's like uh i see yeah you know and then past that point it starts turning into like family guy skits almost where the you just go like oh my god you're important person from that time period yeah wow yeah missy she that's right there you go thank you that sounds like a family guy screw up the torpedo for a different yeah and then yeah you run it everyone's like wow i guess oh my god it's he's in greece oh my god it's rossel crow at least that led to one of my favorite family guy jokes where they reference a person from history and it cuts to him at a table and he looks the screen goes you don't even know who i am holy freaking crap lois look who it is it's insert character name here yeah they got the name out of the manatee pool sort of thread the other day talking about how family guy is actually fantastic and just got a hard shake and i was like okay chill out there might be funny stuff in it but like let's not go too far here i feel like it can still be funny but it again it just feels unfair because they've got it so easy it's just hey remember that time i did x whereas in other shows you have to actually work hard to justify the comedy they told like thousands of jokes of course some of them are gonna be pretty funny and if you collect them all up you're like see family guy wasn't so bad it's like you're ignoring all of the shit jokes but okay of which there were a lot and there were a lot of jokes we just like yep yep please end like family guy had a lot of jokes like that's kind of what i mean like someone's defense that would be less the joke and i'm like i know that's the joke is that it's long and insufferable and i don't care that's not that's the opposite of funny that makes me upset i mean the best i could say is that might work once yeah i enjoyed it the first time i'm sure it looks pretty sure they had an episode this latest season where they did Conway twitty twice in one episode it's like holy shit like one is like okay we're doing this again okay back to the show and then they they have the gall to do it a second time like get out of here come on just write a joke fucking out please look he's finding you repeaters fighting a chicken that's fucking hilarious i always i i always remember enjoying the chicken fights because of how over the top they were this i i think there is more to enjoy about them than the fucking Conway twitty thing oh definitely more to enjoy about the chicken fight than Conway twitty oh man i feel like this is a store i got a story coming on oh my goodness gracious well wait one thing one tell us your chicken story one thing before the story starts i just wanted to say about the chicken fights uh the one i remember being surprised and kind of liked it when they do the one with homer and peter in the crossover episode and uh explode the spaceship and roger just flies out he goes hi thanks for having me um oh oh oh yeah that's right so back uh back when i was a little kiddy i i used to like make and stick animations in pivot it was actually kind of an obsession i was making a lot of stick animations with pivot and at the time i really liked family guy and i was like man i want to make like a that just a big over exaggerated fight with lots of collateral damage um and i i worked on that for like months making this hard to rid of these guys fighting each other um and and i think like by the time we reached the really depressing part of the story um i think i've done like two or three minutes of stuff and um and then i i wanted to make a little different pivot animation and i started it up and i put in about you know like five seconds of work and then i i hit save on it and then the next day i come to open up my pivot chicken fight thing and i found out that i had overwritten that was the chicken fight so i lost a lot of work and i i don't think i touched pivot ever again after that i think i think that one really uh broke me yeah i sometimes wonder like if i'd actually if i if i'd kept going with that i might have like been doing animation for longer makes makes me wonder how how much saving over that fall might have drastically changed my uh my life in terms of how much time i spent doing animation yeah i did that too i went to when i uh went from elementary school to intermediate i went to the computer lab and i saw all like the grade six kids were making stick animations and i'm like that's the coolest fucking thing i've ever seen like i gotta do that and the teacher was like no you're grade five you can't use the software yet like get the fuck out of you that's a way to get out of here yeah get out of here what are you doing so i had to wait a year and then i finally got to use it and i did that and then in high school my animation through i had a 3d animation class and my whole project was like two guys fighting in like uh on a rooftop and i animated that for an entire semester and i had so much fun i couldn't wait for animation class just to work on that the whole the whole day and i'd stay for hours after that's a lot of fun even tedious work but animation is tedious but it's it's it's super fucking love animation only they could see you now i feel like it's interesting to think about these types of things because i remember like when i was a kid i was like i want to be a director and then i kind of got talked out of that um and then when you get older you well i guess you get talked out of it but then when you get older you're like there has to be a reason why i gravitated so much to like the media class or the you know why i like narrative writing a lot in school and then as you get older you're like oh shit i think that's what i actually want to do like that's right that's actually the thing i want to do but it's kind of it's easy to get talked out of it because you know like a lot of yeah yeah there's always a worry of locking in like is that gonna be me i don't know maybe not actually i don't want to unfortunately we we have to make very important decisions very quickly it's like well it's the whole idea of if you don't figure out what you want to do the world will figure out what you're going to do for it very quickly um which is why it's important to think about what you want to do and i guess if you get an early start that's always a good thing it's probably it's probably preferable to get all your shit content out when you're young because nobody will hold it against you or as if you make something really shit in your 30 years old people are gonna be like people will say restore the snider first yeah something like that i started making movies in halo two it was i made a series called mercenary and it was it's just about a guy who fights his way through the zans of our beach onto the base he just kills guys and it was just like an experiment in how to like capture it all cinematically with different angles and a lot of fun yeah yeah that too dog shit all so much batman begins music in i know right but i just kept like i wanted so badly to like be good at it and like so i just kept doing it over and over and i would like get feedback off of game facts and shit and holy shit we're going back a while yeah i know right and uh new grounds i was on there i made some stuff on there and got feedback from that what if you're 21 you're super young my dude you got plenty of time if you want to get started on something now it's only once you start getting like 30 that it's it's starting to get really and especially if you got kids it's like well shit now now if they start getting washed off i know yeah i'm sure china likes seeing hong kong get destroyed in godzilla vs kong did they go to hong kong in that one i don't know oh i guess they do in that case in godzilla versus kong yeah they do godzilla go they destroy a bunch of shit uh yes what actually yes they do what that is not what i signed up for am i 12 of i'm 24 so the reality is you're not too old really to do anything it's just more that like in terms of the it gets a lot harder the older you get yeah actually if it's like jumping jacks yeah especially if like i just like the idea that he's gonna go yes 24 is the cutting you're too late viewer it's like no we would never want to say that to anybody it's just a whole idea of um you know if you're like for instance when i was like hey maybe i should try and learn how to get good at drawing i'm still working on it i was like 20 about 2021 because it was a few years ago um and it's like that's still pretty young but obviously compared to the people who've been drawing since they were like 10 and did art classes like you have a lot of catching up to do and if you're like 40 and there are artists who are 40 who've been doing it for like 20 or 30 years it's like you've got to find a way to close that gap very quickly and especially you've got a job in kids it becomes a lot harder because you can't just quit your job and focus on it so it's worth when you just come to a level of peace that you're not gonna be like a fucking you're not gonna be revolutionary right but you can still make stuff and that but you can still make something that's good yeah um Stanley didn't hit many avenues to catharsis i guess it's worth clarifying that there's a difference between whether or not you're gonna be like successful whether or not you're gonna get good at the thing that you're doing i was more talking about is it too you know like to get good at something six you can be successful and crap at what you do i'm not sure that there's any clear way to do that yeah constant example for eggs and you're just even just trying to like do what you think you should be doing and even if it fails that might put you on the path to act finding the actual thing that absolutely like doing you know so the important thing is just putting yourself out there and trying new things and opportunities will will come fouled your way to success yeah or success your way to failure not sure what that means but hey it's deep i guess a lot of people are citing writing examples like people who were successful as writers a lot later that's true the problem is that when it comes to writing it's a lot harder to um like if you want to get good at drawing something there is just a certain amount of time that you need to put into it before like there's something about art it's really obvious when you're bad at drawing because i think it's visual so you just instinctively noticed that something's wrong whereas when it's writing it's a lot harder to identify good and bad um it's not but it is because there's not a lot of people don't think there are such a thing as good or bad writing so it's a little bit harder to hone in on that when it comes to like you know oh somebody somebody was successful and again successful and good i guess uh are different things all right they think it exists when they've got like an angle like extra credits for example suddenly it very much exists it's like you must do what i say writing doesn't require muscle development no it's a different kind of skill hey man the brain is a muscle i mean practice helps but it's just um it's kind of it's kind of hard because it's like you need to consume a lot of stories and you need to think about them a lot and you know practice different uh different ways of doing it um and like the right way bring it wrong you can tell when it's wrong but finding what's wrong is not simple well yeah but i guess what i mean is like if there's a drawing and you look at it if there's something wrong with it it's almost instinctual even if you can't quite identify what it is because um many of you did this earlier will be posted pages from nubia real one it can be it's a horrifying game of leapfrog with your ability to identify what's wrong and your ability to actually fix the problem yes you're in a constant game of leapfrog figuring out in you know slow improvement in that regard and sometimes you can just sit there and look at something for like 30 minutes or more like look over the course of several days even a couple of hours and just go i cannot figure out what the problem is but i know there's something wrong oh in chat you just said something really good we live in a society it's true we do we do yeah we live in a society that's obsessed with child prodigies or super young heroes i agree i think a lot of people put unrealistic expectations on themselves you see somebody who's super successful and they're like 19 it makes you feel like shit when in reality that is like exception for the most part you've got to work really hard to get good at something and that means that you're probably going to be a lot older before you're a or i guess it's more just that there's a lot of emphasis on the idea of somebody being naturally good at something which i don't think counts for shit i think that effort and hard work and practice are a lot more meaningful to whether or not you're going to be good at something then whether or not you were naturally more likely to be good at something and a lot of the time it's not natural a lot of the time the people who are really good at something really young have been learning it since they were like five years old you know somebody's not naturally talented musician just because they're like you know 18 or something and they're already doing some crazy musicals and stuff if they've been doing like piano lessons for 20 years well i don't see how that would be truly impressive if they're 18 but yeah if they're 18 and they'd be doing piano lessons since like a year and three months before they were even conceived i got my practice in the ovaries that's that's a little bit of piano yeah since i like hearing you guys hate on anime here's one of my biggest problems with it there are only at best four different kinds of characters and have the depth of a water droplet and are as subtle as a train wreck well that's very charged and very broad i feel like even i'm going to be like i doubt that um i i've seen enough anime to try and make generalizations like that and um four types of characters maybe i could be convinced of it um if someone was able to like throw 50 of them from different shows and be able to categorize them all into one of four um what would those four be who knows i guess one of them would be the bubbly big titted woman right that's like that's one of them would be three bubbly big titted women and one awkward guy what an awkward nerdy guy who's like yeah maybe who's constantly blushing and making little gasp sounds like oh i'm trying to do an anime gasp anime it's an industry you gotta do training for that vocal lessons on how to do anime gasps like playing diablo here you're a hard r racist i mean yeah obviously you're engaging with any of these pieces of content or creating worlds in which similar things happen they're more inclusive we gotta be more inclusive by erasing more and more of our franchises the way to do it why hello there rags hello the far left there's no such thing as an evil race also the far left white people are inherently racist we need to be less white me what the fuck there's this certain crossover with certain people that you like to highlight it's sort of like that's an interesting thought you just had there and then it's also another interesting thought you had over there better to be non-specific lest we are unable to stream anymore oh a long man uh when you've been reading super chats from efab 125 i keep sending uh super chat but you keep not reading them and constantly sending the same super chat it's pretty annoying also high wags and high movie hello um one two five is one we've definitely got ones that we haven't read out yet but um i we've caught we've been up to date with everything since the efab that was uh needed to be caught up on and we recently did the catch up for all the snider related things so um this isn't one of those things where you could have put it in that one right whatever it is you wanted to send through it's you'd instead told me that there's something that i need to i hope you didn't but but uh eventually definitely to try to fit it in uh try to try to why are you why are you failing to reach the planet i was looking at my my my records of things and then i forgot i was in a time i should have hit the pause button it's my bad man i really like this uh this particular map and hit and run um it's it's kind of like gorgeous because you get to run over millhouse a whole bunch because i agree well i it's uh the sunset and everything and i remember liking the music a lot mainly because saxophone bias here but uh yeah uh well i think skyrim is overrated i really enjoy the elder scrolls law and i think the way that they did orcs is really interesting they do a really interesting spin on orcs and their origin that you guys should look into any of you have any idea what that relates to not really no i have none i do not either no real thoughts when it comes to holder scrolls orcs well fair enough um they remind me of um they remind me of cleons talked to weaponized nerd rage she has an insider who talked with the original dev before the company shakeup that brought in the progressive nut jobs look up nerd rages stream about piezo wait is that was that what's this in relation to which studio uh piezo so piezo is a company or piezo they make pathfinder oh they're the role playing one right yeah so they're one of those companies who are you know they start to lean on the whole like a lot of these like all these companies are fucking doing i see but fuck that i'll play the game how i want suck my cock nice extra credits doesn't deserve 100 subs after the not seeds video i mean they got roasted internet wide after that one and this one if i was running a channel and i had made that like i'd fire them it was an insane video um i didn't see that one what were they saying in that one who is a nazi the whenever you play games like the video is called stop normalizing nazis yeah and so and when you pick a random team in a fucking fps and it makes you a nazi because that's just the environment whatever you need to tell the players that nazis are evil oh my god just in case you didn't know that yeah but i mean but it's just the whole thing of like if i'm playing a world war two game and it's set in the western front like what it would be a little weird if it was like america versus britain or something you know yeah don't kick millhouse into the wow that's you shouldn't have done that it has to be done just to see this funny thing happen it's like one of my favorite things to do in this game watching him walk back shame about that maxim mg2 vampires can't lift communist weaponry that can't lift ak47s is that like it's a shame they're they're they're they're pretty secure yeah yeah they're pretty secure they walk down tight nothing you could do oh wow i just got attacked by a mpc what the hell i don't drive into the back well it's probably because you're just kicking millhouse all the time that's like a law i'm allowed to do that question for rags which would benefit an underground vampire nation better capitalism or communism just curious um i think the what they're going for the goal of if your goal is just fucking bite and suck the blood out of people i presume that you could just do this pretty easily communism well in any society as long as people running around it like and yeah i don't think that would make much of an impact i think i would say with capitalism is that you picture the mr burns type who is also a vampire and just fucking is taking advantage of his workers in that he takes one by one into his room to tell them oh you maybe a fight or everything fucking eats them or you know drinks their blood uh i don't i'm not quite clear on how we assess the vampire's efficiency and either like i don't know why they wouldn't just be able to eat people anyway i guess if you wanted to take my chances if i was a vampire and my goal was to stay secret and to bite as many people as i could probably i would choose communism i figure there'd be more poor people there'd be more there'd be less um i guess infrastructure for them to utilize for their purposes they like if the more the more people who are more well off i feel like the more difficult it would be for me the more likely it is for people to be armed the more likely it is for people to have better houses with better security uh they would use cars more so they'd be walking around less there would be less infrastructure for subways and things like that where it's probably really crowded and would be more difficult for me to get away with it um yeah my so was the question like which which not not like a political structure for the vampires themselves but if you lived in a country so an underground vampire nation oh um i guess i guess i'm trying to figure out if the commodity is blood um well can they live on blood alone presumably yes but also that the world stays the same except they they exist you know so the underground so like if the underground society was capitalist there'd be like private companies that sell blood to uh to vampires to drink whereas if it was communism there'd be like one overarching communist like the central vampire committee or something um the the cbp and then they could like maybe they'd be uh you know the blood is is distributed amongst everybody there's an equal amount of blood designated to each person so like you swing by and they're like this is your blood for the for the week all right i know yeah which one they distribute the blood yeah so as for which one they would do better in i i really would have to hear a whole bunch of arguments from multiple people to be like to be sure because i'm really not sure yes we need to probably depend more on the individual like country than it would that system because i don't know that if those two systems would play that much of a role in it when it comes to just acquisition of blood it's kind of an interesting question though in terms of what would happen uh off topic but do you know of any moments in history or fiction where a group of soldiers had to repel an attack and civilians joined them to help um that probably certainly happened but i mean in world war two towards the end of the war a lot of the people who are fighting for germany were civilians who got recruited but i don't know if that's the right example because yeah i don't know if that's the spirit of the question two i don't think that they were particularly on board with it does duncirk do that uh with duncirk they recruited civilians civilians got their boats to go across the channel and pick people up um oh yeah this is like the other one i was thinking of well what's the example with wasn't the mafia used to like actors was it like a police force or something when was that during world war two i've got pieces of memory here i'm not sure what i'm referencing what about uh the world well the war store uprising was the home army and a lot of that well uh defending so like defending their city against a siege i guess what was the question technically helms deepwood count yeah um i'll read that again do you know of any moments in history or fiction where a group of soldiers had to repel an attack and civilians joined them i bet there was a fair number of sieges where the civilian population volunteered to help the i guess it depends on what because for instance in russia yeah because somebody's just said russia world war two in the battle of mosco civilians uh dug trenches and stuff and defences for the uh for the soldiers um that that's probably an example that field yeah i'm surprised that stuff happened i believe a stalingrad yeah the civil well the thing with stalingrad was i'm pretty sure the civilians weren't evacuated quickly no they weren't allowed to leave yeah because i think that was a nice lemon i think that happened in uh leningrad as well like they couldn't get out um i guess that's different though that was a siege not uh that was kursk oh wasn't i'm pretty sure in the bout in mosco they dug defences the french resistance yeah but the problem was they were in underground they weren't like i guess i'm not sure that counts they weren't civilians well i mean they were like i mean in the sense that they were i mean if they weren't regulars in that sense i see what you mean like they weren't just they were organized and i guess yeah they were organized in that county either yeah um oh creek the battle of creek the civilians uh helped out the allies when the nazis invaded creek a lot of people are saying um wouldn't civil wars count i'm assuming this excludes civil wars like it's not um is this like ontaneous civilian like i think that's what i mean that probably happened a lot in the revolutionary war probably happened a lot just in general it's a very narrow category because i was gonna say just feudal levies in general but of course they were organized and you know um this one just says girls get it done i uh i my goodness gracious i'm not sure what that why that would have come up from what we were looking at today but uh name name one thing a woman has ever done i'll wait oh that's why it would have come up the fucking logic part where these are better logical or whatever um i know what women have done i watch 300 where she says we give birth to real men it's like oh you've got movies 300 one day much like many movies i love us night at cut fans are dusting off tlj's defenses for how intelligent the film is you just don't understand its brilliance the characters are supposed to be that way that's what a fucking character less this is the thing i don't even like wonder woman man what the hell a whole movie in four hours what you do to it uh yeah i don't know if i want to go down the route of it's supposed to be shit i don't think anybody wants to go down that route it's uh but it's funny the whole dusting off tlj arguments i still stand by that i think that tlj defenders had better legs to stand on with the whole like the film is about this broadly and that is a very meaningful message like that is something compared to um fucking it doesn't matter that he forgot because your nitpicking is what that is it's just nitpicking which by the way tlj people would totally go with the whole nitpicking thing too but a lot of the time they would just be like yeah those things are problems but like they're in all movies whatever this movie's doing this thing really well um but yeah some of the comments i've seen have been absolutely incredible i think we've talked about them a couple times in different places but uh the majority of it is you don't understand this and like there's so many comments about how like mullet cuts out dialogue deliberately to make the film seem stupider like if i added any of it it would only make the film worse trust me also copyright's annoying okay i can't just play the whole movie uh they rap and use the word fascist over and over because even they know communists are objectively worse than fascists but need to defend it it's ironic i'm at the point of any tizm means fun from this um communists are objectively worse than fascists i feel like fascists like at their worst pretty much just peeking bad it's like yeah that was kind of i guess is he referring to the whole thing of like how many people collectively but i thought it was like about the ideologies specifically i feel like fascism is worse i i was gonna live in a fascist or communist society i'd rather live in the fascist one i don't i i don't know about that because i don't know what the fuck i don't know yeah we can go from zero to 100 with fascism like i don't know how bad it is yeah i feel like very poorly understood even in the best of times well i guess it's just because like what what are the what are the examples that we have it's like two countries for a very short period of time um versus well more than two i guess but as opposed to like several countries over the course of half a century um they're both labels of socialist oppression isn't like the key operative element of fascism that it's like ultra nationalist and very racially like it can be it i'm pretty sure that is what it is no i'm very invariably nationalistic uh yeah which will always incorporate some racial element but it doesn't have to be as racially charged as nazism was okay right yeah if the focus is especially the focus like is super on national identity in terms of a shared culture um then yeah i would is that hold on i feel like this is me being wikipedia andy this time and also i mean the ussr was super nationalistic as well it's a form of authoritarian ultra nationalism right but yeah they both suck that would be like they would suck i i like my my i like my free market economies i don't know my capitalist i like my democracy i like my ability to vote for the people who are in charge no i like that too you bootlickers oh and someone takes the r scene from clockwork and add pepe beating off in the corner why dude so um you can if you'd like i suppose you know creative freedom and all that it seems like it's their vision uh high weekend fringy metal geologist geologist gone and moopy rag and high rags oh oh hi um uh talking began to write a sequel to the lord of the rings called the new shadow there's a portion of it available to read i didn't know that uh one thing you can talk about with evil races is how they're portrayed in the world like i find races that are evil to just just to be evil incredibly boring yeah it's kind of it's kind of they tend to be i don't know that there would need to be anything more than that depending on the context like if someone said the flood bore me i'd be like okay oh well yeah i guess um the flood's a little more well yeah but i guess with the flood it's a little more complex because they're not like a race they're a parasite but the same could be said for a lot of different things like dalek's likes i don't like the borg they're not necessary i guess there is a lot i guess it's just that like you can't have a conversation with a flood you can talk to the grave mine but like a flood doesn't really have a perspective or anything like it's it's just part of a lot right so i guess yeah basically like the borg run i guess you well they have the the little forms and then they like infect people and then yeah there's like like corpses yeah i remember um all i need to do is contrive it so that this is the history but you never find that out and so they're just attacking and you're like why are you doing this and someone said well they're fucking evil and it's like that's boring yeah like well i mean okay yeah to the degree that yeah with the flood just show up on a planet and start causing shenanigans uh yeah it's uh indistinguishable from evil yeah and and that's that's that's what we're gonna for a lot of those like can't be portrayed in that it's like oh shut up loads of different things portrayed that way there's no actual negative trait you're just looking for things to complain about and uh yeah maybe if we had extra credits person on we could uh go over in detail exactly what they meant that wouldn't be frustrating at all there's my fish they see orcs and see race sounds pretty racist i mean that seems to be i think the major takeaway from most people having seen this video though just jesus yeah like normal people who don't live in these lefty bubbles they think it's insane that you would compare orcs or and try to way connect orcs to a real life race that's nuts it doesn't even it isn't even something we even think about thinking about considering i'd be curious um if any of this would be happening if they were all pale orcs i'm curious if that that's how they draw the connection but some of them are green what do you what do you get black and green from well unless they pull it from me who knows maybe maybe i am pale orcs or oh my goodness that's why you chose green because i chose green well it's funny because just i like the color green i think it's a nifty color but you know maybe there was something going on there subconsciously your bartering orc brain loves the color green there were some orcs are green but yeah i guess but i don't like a lot of orcs are like gray as well and i feel like gray at that point it's hard so now we don't know if it's being racist toward white or black people so damn a gray or yeah i just i don't know all the timeline if they're all they were all pale to begin with would it then would the conversation still exist i don't know it's really weird to associate like dark skinned it's like automatically well you hate black people now or just because darkness and stuff is like often just associated with an antagonistic force well it's just because night time i think i think that's a simplest explanation for that night time is scary daytime is is not that's so scary well just being able to see stuff and then we can understand it the less we understand the more afraid we might be the unknown that yeah that's the i'm gonna restart just because i missed out because i think this is actually cutting it close these uh these time trials milnia or storm breaker milnia i think storm break is cooler i think so if i like storm breaker better i like milnia more i like seems more real in a way oh that's not for me i just think an axe is more useful than a hammer seems more real you mean yeah i don't know what that means right i feel like it's it's more of a it seems like it'd be more of a weapon that i could use effectively yeah like a more reach it's a hammer on one side and a blade on the other yeah i can get more umph with it it's got that longer shaft i agree with that but like milnia's magical so i don't really mind that much and i can like fire lightning with it and shit you can't stab dark pride with uh mole near though you know if i hit him really hard his skull will crack he'll be like i guess i'm just wearing armor he's in more trouble if you've gone go near than if you've got storm breaker what do you have what if you have to pound a nail in fringy i suppose i just get a regular hammer oh wait what if you storm break it can do that both could hammer that they both are hammers what the other side that's right yeah how how is it that thanos can pick up storm breaker is that it was storm break is not a worthy thing so still weapon okay um i think that's what i like about milnia too is that aspect i like the idea that it like can't be picked up and you can use it in fun way that is neat like you just put on someone man captain america should have just put uh mole near on uh on thanos when he got well you know when he puts it he puts it on low key right is that full one that's still one yes yeah that should probably kill him um what doesn't kill low key yeah it probably should because you can't pick up milnia like at all if you're unworthy implying like it should just slam into the ground like any element of you preventing it from hitting the ground implies you're lifting it in some way shape or form right ah right so um i don't know i i feel like milnia there is there's an element of it i semi-sentience where it can decide whether not someone is worthy i think so yeah so it implies a sort of understanding of it the scenario that it's in like milnia would like i'm not going to crush this guy but i won't let him get up for you though well yeah like it knows what thore's intentions are with that when thore does it i could be pushed on that i don't know i i guess uh i guess well the problem is i feel like at that point it's like so if milnia like it seems like milnia just sits on whatever surface it's on and then it's about lifting it up from there because if not wouldn't it just fall through the ground every time like if you put on yeah i'm okay with it sitting on surfaces because it seems to distinguish surfaces from like people uh yeah i guess it's just the idea of being able to pick it up from like the handle or or push it off you know like it's stationary once you like go of it in a certain sense well it's funny because at the end of age of ultram they're like you have to be worthy but wait but what if it's in an elevator is the elevator worthy or they're just joking around with it uh and i guess uh in thore ragnarok he puts he puts milnia in that dragon's mouth and just drops it to the ground and they can't move that was really funny oh that that opening shot thore ragnarok is so awesome with the dragon i wouldn't mind rewatching that i probably should have jumped in on you on that one well yeah yeah missed out well me and rags can watch it we can have a jolly gay old time isn't that right rags indeedy do yeah this weapon wouldn't be that useful unless you were trying to kill three vampires that were huddled together uh i would throw my hammer would pull me off oh my god jam will put you pull you off no i i said flying and it would take me away feels it sounds like you had a very special relationship with this hammer and that losing it was a kid to losing a loved one corgan meek it's so funny i want him i want that i want uh yeah i want that i want the corgan meek movie we're just them going on adventures together yeah keep missing out by like one and a half seconds it's bad for you about the the boring thing especially when you can play them as characters because you either have to play evil or they aren't all evil but everyone should decide themselves how to portray evil characters and races well i'm happy that that's how you sort of ended it with that like that we should probably just let them create the universe as we can criticize them in terms of like consistency for sure but if they just say this is this and this is what they are maybe like well but um lord riggs when you play as like the bad guys there's no i don't if you're like why am i attacking aragorn i don't wish to i need to know my motivations i don't know that people really that could say about that um you're just like i'm playing the bad guys who and i i feel like as we went over there's just a context and time for these things um depending on what story you're telling even lord rings address is the idea of orcs being pure evil they are described as twisted slaves and elrond himself says nothing is evil in the beginning not even saron lord rings racist argument is dumb um again i would have to try and rewatch and really listen out for like those specific references but uh presumably if there were a lot of nuance to orcs uh we don't have the time to be discussing that during the events of lord the rings where the world is about to be destroyed yeah especially if they're attacking our heroes which was the context and so i get frustrated with the idea of like hey should we though because these guys seem kind of like they could be good i'm a bit jumping the gun here but i just saw a super chat that said molnia refuses to be moved by unworthy people maybe that's an easier way to interpret it it's not about lifting it's about just being able to move it from where it is so like if the hammers put on you you can't move the hammer which is what keeps you stuck as opposed to it like crushing your ribs and everything yeah there might you can there's probably a wiggle room to to just fax i remember when i first saw it i was just like oh damn it wouldn't just go through him because wouldn't that technically like could loki's chest count as like a form of a hand pushing it up and thus wouldn't be worthy you know just well yeah because loki has no control over it it the it's not in any way to his will loki wants to move it but he can't if we're saying the hammer itself can sort of like alter its ideas in terms of like it's aware of its surrounding and it can sort of decide things i mostly chill with it i just i always saw it as just a very strict rule um because why wouldn't it go through like a table or something well at that point yeah that's kind of what i'm getting at because if you drop it it goes down and it knows to stop at the ground um just yeah i feel like giving it that sort of ambiguous well you're like if you're saying if it can tell the difference between a table and a person grabbing it then it must have some form of a awareness yeah like it because remember when um when odin spoke his spell into it you know that was maybe that's like it's a it's a very watered down and uh like a pseudo version of odin's will in that somehow yeah i presume it's a magic thing but maybe property of the map or anything um you know that are like a magic spell and like there's some like being in the ether that controls the magic broadly and therefore the hammer speaking of odin instead of the hammer having little eyes where it's just like hey how you doing i'm me on there nobody's picking me up i don't thought i really like your buddy hope i don't get destroyed someday that'd be seared uh yeah speaking of odin's magic it was someone who was like frustrated metals stream the other day it was like how come you guys rip into you know endgame and knight a cut and stuff but you want to rip into avengers and it's like filled with issues it's like no it's not like like give me one one of the ones they said was like um in Thor 1 the bifrost is destroyed and in avengers Thor just shows up they never address this it's not even possible and then oh suddenly the bifrost is repaired in Thor 2 makes no sense at all and like i haven't seen avengers this is before i was checking out with you friggin even then i only saw like half of it um i was like doesn't Loki say like how much dark magic did father have to summon to bring you here or something like that because it's not i think he does in the scene where they're talking to each other because yeah the bifrost is destroyed and at the end of avengers they use the spacestone to get back to asgard or the tesseract so i think it's safe to assume that they found a way to get him there um and i mean in the in the dark world he says like like you know the bifrost was destroyed like the only reason i was able to get to earth or something was such and such to deal with Loki i think yeah apparently that is exactly what he said so yeah i think you guys find that if you watch avengers it's really sound like that's a good movie yeah sounder than all the other avengers movies yeah yeah um i feel like it's not even really close like i really like infinity war but infinity wars got a decent chunk of problems yeah and um and of course age of ultron and endgame are not even like if i just get shattered a lot for being like uh it's the the genericy one it's the simplistic ones the story beats are very obvious and a lot of the character rocks very nothing wrong with that though and it's very flat that can be a that's a good thing sometimes yeah fuck me man i'm i'm tired of everybody trying to build on stuff in different wacky ways this is like hey how about you just telling the story for once can we just get i mean avengers one is very much just the standard three act story which um you know it works the reason it works yeah your peaks and your lows and your climaxes and your darkest hour i don't oh that's glowbacks isn't that um that's uh hank scorpio's company right it is hank scorpio has to be one of the funniest side characters and like anything ever oh he's he was just beloved to everyone just like really likes it he's he's probably a great example of just being you know a villain but so charming that you just like enjoy he's so nice to homo he cares about his employees it's really i did you know that apparently hank scorpio was originally going to be the villain in uh in the simpsons movie but hanks he was too likable makes sense yeah god there's so many funny jokes with him hey homo if you want to kill somebody on your way out that would really help me a lot when he gives him sugar from his pockets he goes want some cream goodbye mr bonds and then like he escapes stop him he's supposed to die hello uh like world leaders this is scorpio i have the doomsday device like you know why are something like 10 million dollars to me in the next hour or some blows up the bridge it's like oh my god he just blew up the mad hat and bridge it's like maybe it fell down on its own it's like we can't take that chance you always say that i want to take a chance fell down on its own you yeah 48 hours hanks scorpio well that episode is like austin powers like a lot of it just good shit fun to make fun of it at this point it would genuinely be refreshing to have that kind of villain in a movie who's like just copically evil but he cares about his employees yeah i feel like it would be way more endearing too than fucking anything we get these well i mean honestly i feel like that's one of the easiest ways to make a villain somewhat like either likable or sympathetic is just habits so that they actually do care about the people who work underneath them it's one of the reasons why dark side sucks so much ass is because clearly doesn't care about any of the people beneath him he's characterized by wanting to remove the free will from everyone so yeah i guess he just didn't give a fuck about anybody other than himself it's like cool one of the things that helps thanos is he loves gemora or at least he believes that he does even if it's a really warped perception of love like he still cares about it clearly we economically does lover yeah he does yeah well because the sacrifice work he goes also yeah e-fap number two i want to say or three where we covered a video that said um it is fucked up that the universe confirms that he loved her well all that matters is whether he remember that video that was the guy who wrote uh yes it is um colonial marines yeah and we had to basically talk about how love is complicated it's not always flowers rainbows and balloons okay big ol subjects like the man from buffy affably evil yeah the man's a really good example oh the you know what yeah that kind of captures what i was going for because even he do you remember when his subordinate dies and he's like furious yeah that's right i assume that ma is dead this day is taking a terrible yeah i think that was really helpful uh he cares about even his own like squad um i think it just goes a long way i don't think he cares much about like the star or any of these people but don't mistake us for saying like all of them have to have this it's obviously a specific kind of villainous character but i just it's just almost a cheat code if you're struggling in that regard and it's not even like an aspect of goodness there's there's a just this utilitarian obviousness that comes with if you treat the people who work for you like shit and awful and like they have no value that will be counter productive to you well let's put it this way one of the worst villain tropes is when they kill their own people yeah just randomly god yeah and everyone's just like oh i'm sure i'm sure i'm pretty sure that uh i i think it was infinite warfare that cooler duty game where like kit harrington he's like ah you see your weaknesses that you care about each other and then he kills one of his own dudes the other care about my men that's why i'm better than you and i'm just they're like uh the other guy who's with him i would have blown his head off right then and there i can't trust this dude people yeah absolutely that in media and it's so cringe every time just how do you maintain social cohesion and like it's it's you know one of the biggest things in like an army is morale making sure that everybody's happy and believes in the cause you're gonna have a really hard time doing that if at any point in time the leader would blow your face off just to prove nobody would care yeah well i think my favorite thing is he's proving a point to somebody he kills a minute later like what do you care about the point you prove so he doesn't exist anymore such a dumb stupid trope is it evil geniuses has it as objectives for buddy the film the game that's like parodying being a villain there should be a supervillain introduction scene where like he just shoots an army of his own guys that guy's bad i was thinking you have like maybe 20 people in like a you know a room with computers all kinds of things going on that are villainous and then they have it in their head like to prove a point they execute one of the people in front of everybody and they'll just scream and start running and everyone trying to escape pulling fire alarms you're like no it's not no no wait no this isn't having the opposite effect that i thought Jim i can't fucking believe it oh my god mentioning uh vader the thing that works with vader is one the the reason why he's killing people isn't is it's like to instill fear within the ranks of like you need to like comply with my demands and you need to perform you like have to perform otherwise you might get killed yeah he gets more than one chance to yeah they failed as opposed to you've done your job perfectly fine but i want to make just gonna kill you anyway yeah so i'll shoot you yeah like it works way better with vader and remember the the tasks they're failing are supposed to be like these incredibly the first one is don't come out of hyperspace too close to hoth and he did the second one is don't lose the millennium falcon when it's right in front of us and he does these are things that are like it's it's like hold this pen and then they don't he's like fucking hell like i can't put up with this well and and i think that's the thing that helps as well as he's not just killing random foot soldiers like he's killing officers who have like a much more of a responsibility to get things right like them you know they're more uh accountable in a certain sense like yeah what's more accountable yeah and again they are significant mistakes because the hoth one they could have destroyed the uh the rebels there and a lot of the villains we were talking about just now like the underground sort of struggling ones are trying to subvert society in some way this is the empire they have full control so if you like if you are like ah you know what i i don't believe in this cause anymore it's like it's the status quo like this is the society yeah like though you know you you could still make the arguments like vader better be careful he might you know swell the ranks of rebellious tendencies or whatever potentially um but i think a part of it is that he's frustrated to yeah um vader's annoyed because all of this is in aid of him getting his son so you know there's there's a lot going on there that's more than just lol i killed a bit one of my soldiers because i'm evil and like i actually do blame star wars for fucking making every villain do that in every movie ever because they saw vader doing it and they were like oh yeah you got to do that that's that's a star wars fault though something no of course it's it's just a general trope but i think stars would have helped because vader killing his own men was like incredibly impactful it's just like holy shit this guy means business but now everybody does it like uh it's so dumb how do you how do you keep people loyal to you if you're just gonna kill them for no reason actually yeah i've got a finite source of men and that's my evil plan any questions one guy puts his hand up oh dude what kylo did it more questions he's got a board of people who are there to ask fucking questions presumably one of the most the most reasonable question ever and he kills them why what it feels like parody i feel like why are we here sir in this room what do we do agree with me i'm like oh you're here to listen to me talk to you like all right target practice i can't like it's so inept the writing in that scene that guy is like he just asked the most reasonable question ever so what does the emperor want from you fucking die you're like okay you might have been like the most level-headed person on the team holy no i can't have intelligence in the first order that ruins everything voted equals not racist but they have a video to make as far as i i can tell coded goes both ways but i could be wrong on that i'd have to look into maybe even urban dictionary so i don't even know how much it's used like they're using it for the original definition assuming there is one i have not looked into the etymology of coded oh dad me um also stop the whole orcs represent black people bs please doesn't anyone of those people realize how racist that sounds that's that's the big thing no they don't actually you're the racist racist everywhere i don't know what we're gonna do now look at the sick parkour and simpson's hit and run from marge look at the way she runs is that like canonical did she do that in the show no zombie i don't think she's running like uh they're doing in um in scooby-doo with the arm ahead why aren't you swinging the arms you gotta swing your arms if you want to run properly all right marge she's running like maggie's about to fall out a window or something yeah a little bit because every time you put on her arms like come down and up again this is really awkward it's just it is really odd running animation i'm trying to think of as someone who's fucking simpson's encyclopedia sometimes i'm like why does she run like that i'm not sure because homo runs like a normal person i'm pretty sure they all do yeah uh they see orcs and see race sounds pretty racist agreed reverse Naruto run yeah kind of my dnd party a corrupt priest an ex-con a war criminal a lady addicted to fetus deletus a guy too stupid to realize he is a mass murderer and a mad scientist everyone is having a great time i completely understand that however what you should have done is sat them all down and said look you're doing problematic because you're choosing to play as things that aren't very good in real life because fantasy is not a real thing as in you can't fantasize about anything that could be dangerous there's a really cool world we're building with uh with these rules efap is very pro minorities just look at the the reoccurring characters springy's black rags is by jay's transgendered and moeller who's the rarest and most bizarre minority of them all a grown-up that doesn't know how to drive exactly do you so did you ever do like driving lessons or if you just never done any it was always the i just never needed a the place i live in like everything is within like at most a half hour walk which is fine yeah yeah i no i totally understand it i guess i was just curious as to ever if you've ever uh like driven a car whether or not you've you know gotten a license or anything i have not you actually don't need a license if you play simpson's hit and run yeah that's true this is why he plays it so much because deep down he really really wants to learn how to drive so simpson's hit and run is his pathway to learning how to drive oh my god is her run in the quickie mart more or less embarrassing let's see like oh oh and i have the silent alarm thing as well yeah let's activate the silent alarm such a good joke behold frostillicus i remember which of these are such a good joke man um oh the frost frost one yeah i know a lot of these anti orc types would be fine with the flood orcs have human characteristics is that well this is the thing there's so many categories and tears um i wouldn't want to hatch open any more discussions we already had hours ago but uh yeah maybe it was good that they did it in eight minutes so that we fully understood that's probably generous actually it was more like six minutes but they did the conversation that justice it deserves yeah being none of it uh there is a video of kids asked about sharing and during the video the kids were more willing to share other candy than their own oh yeah it's easier to give away other people's stuff i was gonna say that that just seems yeah it wouldn't surprise me at all why would you need to do a study to figure that out or an experiment like what are you more likely to share everything that you have or share out everything that is over there isn't yours and like you know the second one sounds easy because it's not mine candy narrow is a good car like all the grocery bags in the back as well wasn't one of the added for the canyon arrow just running over a bunch of deer and there's apparently 65 tons as well that's how much it was rags lucifer pretty sure the whole fall of lucifer is in the bible even if most of paradise lost is not okay i don't remember if that's contradicting something i'll see how that would yeah it isn't but um it's racist to depict orcs as evil so i'm replacing them as the main antagonist in my campaign with dark elves oh no oh no that's probably worse hello all more importantly hi rags hi all a pause for response i already did that i won't be able to stay um doing amitisms rags let's go on a date maybe oh maybe who knows i don't think it's possible i don't date orcs though bring it read the stormlight archive it has a different race that's not just evil or have justifiable reasons for their actions i think i have the audiobook for the first one but i um i need to i think i was listening to it but that was a while ago so i've probably forgotten everything that was in it doesn't make sense how do you archive light dumb i hate it i'm not sure how well i mean i guess what wait what you archive light by with solar panels or i guess that's archiving electricity generated by light yeah idiot oh yeah i think before you speak for me jeez all right come down why do you get like this when you plan hit and run like it's just i just my my i'm i'm seeing rad i'm just running over mill house and it's just doing things to me um three uh i am i'm on three poorly dealt with tonys ptsd but endgame added that his arc reactor inexplicably failed making his near-death experience repeat minutes later oh well because uh ant-man deactivates his arc reactor to give him a a bit of a heart attack oh you're right yeah i wonder if that would have had any impact on tony at that point in time god i hate that bit i remember being so frustrated watching it i was like no i think my favorite part was how instead of tony just shutting the fuck up he says hey this guy needs some help drawing attention to him someone might be like man you sound oddly like the person having a heart attack right here well i'll just go for saying wow you sound like you're trying to distract people yeah just the fact that they they screw up their plan because hulk busts out of the door and knocks him away and nobody's looking at Loki so that he can steal the tesseract it's it's butt garbage there i see you're arguing with chat there what are you arguing about i've just been looking over every now and then they're still talking about fascism and communism stuff that's all the term for marxism crop up and uh not big on that phrase i don't know what the hell i don't think i'm big on that one either i still don't understand just what a cultural marxist i'm almost i'd say i'm fairly confident that it doesn't mean anything oh well like it contradicts itself or just that it's it's almost like that there's no actual content to the expression that just represents things being done by the people i don't like um i get mixed up sometimes is it the same thing as when they say it's postmodernist to like make everything meaningless oh i don't remember it's a little hard to keep track of it sometimes okay a lot of labels for things in essence i think so there's like no structure to anything i feel like these labels are not helpful when it comes to just politics in general it's almost like as soon as the label gets applied we're just painting everything you know like they said that well not like they said that extra credit video but painting things with a broad brush i was gonna say the reason i got put off on these things is because they got applied to things that i think are really well written i was like okay i just don't understand this anymore like i yeah i'm lost um can't help but notice that anita has been silent about all the boob armor in snider cut i would hate for her people to think her standards are inconsistent i mean she didn't i i always forget that she's around i still forget there's not really like what i don't know that there there was boob armor in Wonder Woman surely so that was made by well i'm actually pretty sure that anita sarkeesian did comment on the fact i'm pretty sure she was the one who somebody circulated the image of how in the Wonder Woman movie the amazons are wearing armor that covers their tummy as well but that in Justice League they're wearing boob plates and like pants and there's the gap you know so like their armor is uh is actually more sexy yeah the yeah exactly she might have been the one to do that so maybe she isn't being silent on that yeah and it was like it was one of the things that gets sold as along the line of like why joss widens is super pervert is stuff like that but it was in the snider cut so theoretically that was just the base footage it wasn't joss's decision necessarily well it wasn't joss's fault yeah because he didn't come up with it um but at the same time the the you know like the the person falls on boob's joke in age of ultron and it's not uh justice joss this league is enough to sort of be like you see yeah he's disgusting this is like all right and calm down that's such a like 90s gag yeah i know and you know what flash is coded as gay so that's why it's funny because he doesn't even like boob oh right i i'm literally just making that up but that's probably something someone's oh you are okay yeah i don't know i mean i guess he isn't coded as gay because of the iris scene right everyone calls her iris even though that's not in the movie just because i think everyone knows what she's i don't know if that's in maybe the credits right what are you who the the girly saves in oh that's yeah that's iris worst they don't mention the name but it's it's yeah it's her broken here because they're gonna fall in love eventually it's like yeah whenever the flash movie comes out that has like 10 billion characters from all the multiverses to reset every movie needs to be prepared to launch a universe that's how it works well i mean this i feel like that movie that movie is probably going to be a disaster because it's going to have like time travel and multiple universes and like yeah but even though i'm kind of happy that they're just totally moving on from uh from uh the sniderverse i really don't want them to keep doing that what an injustice what an injustice indeed rpg guidebooks usually don't even paint all of a race as good or evil just gives the general tendency of the race and how the rest of the races view them i mean you could argue that that's just really remaining you wouldn't want to push a player in any particular direction instead just describing the state of the world um if you were like these guys you know like when the title called cruel describes um the trade federation is greedy like dude if the title crawl is calling you greedy holy shit you must really really thank your life like maybe you have a problem if you have a title i'm supposed to be chill at ease saying you're greedy fuck there'll be a police outfit um salutations valiant mubishly any chance the blind man of minnie is coming out anytime soon or you guys gonna wait until next spooky season uh no eta on that one but um definite interest in in getting it created it's just that takes a long time and um i think that uh it's funny with the snider cut video coming out everyone was like Jesus christ where have you been for eight months it's like oh i was like doing loads of things but i guess okay there's a bit awkward spending time on um making like that black because this is the thing i want to i want to edit that because i think blind man is phenomenal um so there will be other effap stuff coming out that's not edited by me but if i was to choose to do that you get lots of effap content but it would delay um whatever my main project is so i will uh chip away that probably at some point but yeah no no eta as of yet um i think why pit bulls are such a touchy topic is that all the pit bulls that have been killed on the mere on mere suspicion i wouldn't know anything about that um we can more from one to ten how many ubs i used to have how deep are you into the vtuber rabbit hole also for some reason youtube won't let me use the word ubs i have no idea what any of that means i'm sure he's like a nine yeah he's he's pretty into it you know he's a connoisseur if you will um i'm prepared to speak on his behalf on this matter absolutely a lot about a great deal about i'm an expert imo evil requires will and agency orcs are only evil in lord the rings from the perspective of the fellowship any ideas of evil only exist from the human perspective because the orcs just see humans as weak um again it's just how you're playing the word and then uh for the sake of for example when they're attacking helms deeps like they good or evil are they against this or force the important parts they're trying to kill us guys there's someone's like i need to know why though otherwise they're just evil and i'm like uh yeah that can happen sometimes you just don't know the the complex motivation of why they're doing what they're doing that uh lord rings really doesn't go that much into it in the movies what what the orcs are and why they're doing what they're doing lots to interfere narrative mm-hmm it turns out they might they should have explained it because people decade later would be very upset about it two decades later almost right me sir lord of the rings is long enough you know we don't need to fucking go into the orcs i just need that one a few more hours to that why are they doing this the orcs why they're just like the dicks why do they hate they really like power their entire fucking genealogy in history if it added something to the broader story about the ring sure but it doesn't so i always just took it as the power of the ring and sarin it took the presumed potential will but they're probably at a baseline a species that more would line up with him similar to probably the easterlings they're probably like you know what the sarin guy he and i i get it i'm on board that society and operates more malicious so on and so forth again he's pretty tempting even sarin was like you know what i think i think i'm going to throw my lawn with this guy you know i was like hey bro don't do that i i am against that idea wasn't even enough to spend it around the floor a bit yeah and who wants that really nobody yeah um in a setting consider just the fact that the orcs were known to be created by groom groom supposed to be grommash grommash groomsh and his clerics and teachings were common uh no biosensualism would be required for that alone to create a trend well that's kind of what i was getting out with like we don't even know but it's like if you don't know then that makes it so that you would assume biosensualism and it's like oh why would you be so uncharitable instead of assuming that they're a faction they have their reasons and we're not going to know what they are it's always possible dnd 3.5 glossary for alignment often the creatures tend towards the given alignment either by nature or nurture but not strongly a plural plurality of individuals have given uh have the given alignment but exceptions are common i'm not sure yeah highly on is that on orcs or is that just talking about generalities that's on the way races tend in terms of factions in dnd universes in general well this is the guideline the books give you show you're familiar with the alignment table the problematic through the chaotic evil yeah it's just the problematic table what is chaotic evil theo hmm uh depends who you ask because the alignment system is kind of bunk in general oh i must you hate because i am i hate because i am yeah now we're getting philosophical philosophical yeah fun fact well disney wasn't actually anti-semitic that was a lie created by communists because disney was outspoken against communism i'm gonna i'm man like uh hold on well don't hold on i'm just gonna i'm just like i'm not sure i yeah aiden paladin should have been brought on for this video um i think she's probably gonna do a whole video for it i imagine under yeah we were already stacked up at them what was that seven people at one point crazy uh if extra credits had their way all tt rpg races slash classes would be identical there would be no bonuses nor do you do this it's deficits that would it's another word for deficit deficits right uh every character would be the same sounds fun yeah i don't understand what they think they're actually advocating for i suppose they would say that the only trait changes should be physical there's like still meaningful stuff to do guys just not characteristic not personality okay i don't want to live in your world extra credits yeah sounds shit i'm a boring one i'm just not allowed to think anything pile rags pile mammals have but i speak very matter of factly so that means i'm right oh god uh mammals have parental protective instincts reptiles do not female dogs rip open the sacks the puppies are born in so they can breathe with no training that's interesting that's nice yeah it makes you wonder how much it's like um embedded like knowledge into their heads from i guess instinct would be the word for that yeah i'd say it's instinctive um what games do these people play orcs are playable characters in dnd warhammer and wow being black if is oh sorry being black if always found this argument strange and frustrating insulting even i i fucking would be can you stop orcs yeah that's fucked up yeah like i saw orcs the same way everyone did and now you're like hey everybody they're black people like stop they're elderly black women sipping coffee you see this grog it's just like coffee you see the difference between these two pictures i can't i can't tell one from the other i just see two orcs i see two elderly i like how you said there i see two orcs instead of i see two black people um if they have this much trouble with normal games nobody tell them about fatal the greatest tabletop game ever made oh what that game is or what it's a big shit post don't don't look into it wizards of the coast the dnd company has opted for optional rules to eliminate race stat bonuses for dnd because it's insensitive okay yeah it's tasha's cauldron and i actually don't care it's fine i mean thank goodness it's optional i suppose it's an optional rule so that you can actually place it and race class combinations without being horribly inefficient uh what is the point of even having fantasy races if you can't make them different from humans race shouldn't even be the word it should be species yeah again we would know that there's like colloquially that's just how it's used um yeah have finder second edition his it calls them ancestries i don't know grandpa simpson just said nazi not a thing where was i right now i think we're on to something here we should all be human only mankind across the whole galaxy we're shipping the same perfect emperor of mankind yeah that sounds like dark side thoughts on doing the blade what kind of like a planet with an only thing replace humans with paradigms and that's what dark side one uh thoughts on doing the blade trilogy for efab movies i think we would very much be on board with that he knows what'll happen next uh since you mentioned it once i'll say my personal hot take in captain falcon and the winter soldier bucky sorry the winter bucky um zemo is the good guy with bucky kind of neutral uh i don't know enough about what zemo's really doing yet to really call it um as for the others uh it's it's tough to like genuinely whenever i think about the show my brain slows down it's just like yeah it's like slow sludge the show oh when they were that was when it was when they were assaulting the base or whatever and they were like fucking like doing the back and forth like he you know don't go right in winter soldiers that we gotta make sure there's more than one person he's like there's just one person that he goes see look there's more than one it's like oh you got me there's more what the fuck is this it feels like it's trying too hard to do the mismatched pair of cops shouldn't be this hard because they both got very strong personality and i wish i wish bucky was more i don't want to say he's out of character but i just i don't i'm not feeling the same bucky so lame he seems so lame yeah like winter soldier civil war bucky is so much cooler um i don't know what it is about the tv show one he's a little weirder and i think that they're just they're not getting the balance very well but yeah it felt very sludgy at that point it was like here comes the court mandated action scene i gotta go soon have a great day beautiful masters and chat i'm pretty sure they talk about 40k in this video so 40k chat get ready to rip and tear lots of things we had like a full-on they do a little bit yeah imagine a 40k expert panel probably would have been able to spend a while on that part of the video kind of pure frustration um it was a very scientific study done about the objective connection between tlj critics and the alt right you were listed five times on the same list mohler they are now objectively objectively five mohler um last thing i added to this pipeline apparently that led people to the alt right um if this theoretical pipeline goes from every single strand of like political beliefs in any way shape of formal values then surely everybody is a is a gateway in this pipeline to the next one literally like every commentator ever will be in this pipeline but um that's so ridiculous i don't know if you don't like this movie you're a naisy like what if someone watches h bomb a guy and reloves it and then sees my response to him goes you know i actually prefer this guy and then they keep watching my stuff and then they eventually find someone else and they move and move and move it's like oh my god h bomb a guy you led to the fucking alt right pipeline i can't believe it it's his fault go stop him go stop him from reviewing star wars movies that was the big that's uh should have known um lex luther the mohler's are coming the mohler's are coming i'm a little confused on that one why would lex be saying this did lex come up at all in this i'm afraid we're we're gonna be on lower brain power at this point because we have just crossed eight hours you know yeah lex was in it i don't remember anyone talking whenever someone does a super chat i don't understand i'm like chat help me out what's happening what's the context i think is he still talking about the cats hope you have fun with that i am just playing simpson sit and run collecting cans i'm just watching uh i used to love the idea of good orcs now i refuse to even consider it always chaotic evil baby they were born to go to the abyss what's the abyss is that a thing in like or hammer or the warcrafts are like an actual place or are you just saying like a general abyss just means the general i don't know i don't know yeah i just oh yeah i wouldn't mind going to the abyss a bit just a yeah not great place in general yeah i picture it would just be a really empty you know but at the same time kind of scary all elves good how do they explain dro oh be honest i don't know what that is now we draw those are evil draw dark skin elves that live underground and stuff oh no oh they're the ones in um in the time machine or is that someone else uh i'm the hg wells so i forget what the bad guys in that are called they're probably not the same thing i just maybe think about also makes me think of jeremy irons because he was the leader of them the movie version i always thought that orcs took inspiration from german slash goth culture with the barbarian and industrial history where did the black thing come from modern readings on stuff and not understanding the industrialization allegory that's clear all over the fucking books oh more locks they were they were the what was in that too too right too right uh the problem with this recent push to eliminate always chaotic evil is that many who would otherwise avoid the trope in defense of the genre may deliberately avoid giving races like orcs any complexity just to flip these types the bird oh you mean like in an attempt to achieve something they push everyone to want to do the opposite it's like what can happen when i started you were on episode 60 i'm now on uh episode 102 so halfway there wait if we were on 60 when you started and now you are on 102 you are halfway i'm not i'm not sure if the math works out there but it's probably because again my brain is on low functionality but uh good luck we shall see you soon rags in your best jordan peterson say cut off one meme two more shall take its place hail lobster what's that quote again let me i'll post it for you in case it lost halfway this is something the red skull says but not that but yeah cut off one meme i i don't know how i don't know his voice cut off cut off cut off one meme it's more of a cobble in the two more shall take its place hail lobster i am definitely pitching it up a bit lobster cut off one meme two more shall take its place hail lobster i i i can't do jordan peterson his voice is too normal normal i um i think it's normal at all like it's very distinct cut off cut what it's because yeah he's got the he's canadian as well right he is yeah he has the canadian yeah he's definitely one he's kermit that's what everyone's saying yeah he he does sound like kermit rags describing kermit is normal what the fuck uh moeller in your best i can't i cannot do him yeah but would you like to do him i want to i want him to clean my room no you got to do that yourself that's the point that's the point that's the fetish though that's not as hot it's not as hot it's his fantasy you you clean the room while he's sitting in the corner just like no no no i want him to clean a very good job yeah moeller in your best jim accent say i think we're something in the mickey mouse here it's yeah for me i need to i need to actually hear him because i kind of forgotten how he sounds different to that mickey mouse is like oh hi that's him whereas i'm you just pitched up a little higher that's rags points yeah i pitching it'll i feel like pitch is a pretty significant change i don't remember saying they would yeah but you just said like all you did was pitch it up like as if that's all i did yeah you already pitched really high so pitching up higher it's just like yeah you you went higher yeah i changed the voice you're right yeah okay so it's like if i want oh i'm doing a real low voice and then someone goes do a low voice go oh do a real low voice i'm just like yeah that was pretty much the same thing just a little lower well i don't know what to tell you mickey mouse come at the frog and john peterson are pretty close together that's all i'm saying it's more than pitch my good man you put you put all three of him in a room and it's going to be hard to tell him apart no it's not yeah there's you'll get john peterson next to come at the frog empty a double here four uh four psychologists okay that's a psychologist yeah he's sitting in his chair so uh tell me how you're feeling and it's just like i don't know kermit i'm just it's really it's really been tough lately you know the economy covid this you know i'm just not doing very well i see um or i guess i should pitch it up a little bit more i'm losing track of the voices that's what happens when you're so good at doing voices they start to it becomes hard to tell them apart don't say that for any chat i'm gonna rip into you for your voices again yeah i know they are but i don't care anymore all right i've been bracing the the friggin needs to go to bed it's like halfway through the day i am tired but like really it'd be weird if it's like for me like midday it's like nine three a.m for me past nine yeah what do you know i simply thought it would bring you though because he's having to change his accent in addition to peterson's dorky voice yeah i guess there is that too but everybody shits on my american accent which is a little lame i feel like i've worked really hard to get that one better yeah make him feel better by saying it's really good well it ain't really good and i can only do the cliche standard american one i can't do the southern one yet i'll get there sorry thea you're about to say something i cut you off no i was all right i think so at least maybe my brain is slowing down bring your accent needs work yeah i guess bring your australian needs work i feel like i've never done a zemo accent you well you probably like throwing out casually when doing a quote or something but i wouldn't yeah i don't remember you ever being like here is my zemo yeah your accent was a good name i feel like he wasn't that russian sounding like i feel like he's a little bit uh well because isn't isn't i think he definitely had that russian kind of a little bit but i mean what what is uh what's daniel brule he's german right or i would have to check i think he is um um whoa that was cool dude canyone arrow kicks ass go back to working on your crocodile speak fringy um that's probably big it is speak yeah i don't know what crocodile speak would be other than numb numb numb i love biting things dude i have a really hard time well i try to avoid getting banned okay summarizing them as biting things down i screwed up the accent because he should be australian or depending on which one if he's a nile crocodile i guess it'd be more like i enjoy uh not my afric my but ringy says gator with a heart r gator jeez ringy you didn't have to prove it right springy wait what oh oh i finally got the joke to god damn it took me a while he thinks this is a joke wow guys this is fucked up i think i have to have a word with the offline well i i guess it's interesting i imagine the animals probably would have a problem with uh like if you called a crocodile a croc they probably would be like wow wow okay i feel like a croc would be you know wouldn't be so thin skinned about it nice that's true they have a problem with being you have a problem with being called a nausea i don't think so how how offended do you think a crocodile would be on a scale of one to ten i feel like a crocodile would be more offended if you made fun of the fact that they have really weak upper jaw strength like opening their mouths they're not very good what a what a strange thing to be where like you have the strongest bite in the world but at like a very weak person could just hold your mouth shut and there's nothing you could do to stop them there are many weak people have tried to hold my mouth shut in metaphorical sense i'd be more annoyed if you called them alligators than crocs yeah they probably would f**k sake again this time this week yeah like if someone said fringes new zealander you'd be like no um yeah that would be you know kiwi birds are pretty nifty animals there are look up a kiwi if you've never seen one before they're like super cool they're so low already what you said they're so low already and then when i said what you said hmm i want you to explain what you mean when you say they're so low and then you say nothing you're made it with silence whatever this happens i just picture rags the seat is empty it's put out of existence for a few seconds uh go ahead i don't well was it more of because i can carry on but i don't know what was even happening what were we discussing i don't know i don't know i remember we got onto this because we were talking about accents and then talking about gator gate gate the g word the and then we're talking about the gamer word in a certain sense yeah and then uh and then we moved on to kiwis was fringy would change his avatar to a kiwi bird maybe that'll be my halloween costume like yeah i'm not sure i'm gonna do this because i don't want to be a vampire again i might be a a weird i want to be a kiwi i'm gonna take that i or um a long wolf so what you just like what what makes a long wolf different from a regular one probably the regular ones aren't as long yeah right i guess there is that yeah that's true maybe it seems pretty neat uh either that or frank and moeller or something i don't know fringy is a communist kiwi i like the idea of a kiwi bird like dressed what what is like communist attire what what what is like well i know red but like dirty filthy rags you'd need to watch that hat but uh cheg of our wears that uh is that that's like a communist hat right i don't know is there a communist hat i don't know uh well it's what what is that is that a beret it's a it's a beret isn't it he went but berets were worn by americans in vietnam so i guess it's not a communist or is it just melody attire all right all right so it looks like i just totally screwed up there and so does it figure it out which one just have a hammer and sickle you'll be fine oh well i just need to wear the hat with the little star on it yeah just a soviet army uniform like a kiwi that's dressed up as a a commissar i like that it feels like a give it a funny russian hat the one with the fox man of the years whose name i can never like i really like this idea now uh commissar kiwi i feel like this could be a 10 movie franchise five maybe i don't have a 10 yeah the kiwi cinematic universe put it alongside the captain with penguin and yeah with a little monocle yes i guess i guess that had to be um well because we've got those two parts of the spectrum what would what would be the other ones i guess maybe like a an anarchist um what would be an anarchist animal maybe like the anarchist crocodile or something he's anarchist animal a molotov in his hand all the time no you think a zebra would be a yeah like they don't have any sense that like so they they're in groups but an anarchist is often in groups too but they have like no leader that's part of why you can't domesticate them they don't have that sense of so maybe sheep well but sheep are domesticated and they have no leader yeah like they'll they'll follow yeah like in plus sheep is like our go-to word for conformist right so i guess you're a sheep yeah no i know um maybe maybe that's maybe that's the inversion though maybe that's the that's the subversion he is a sheep that goes against the grain or against the grass yeah i'm i'm glad i got it that was a terrible joke but the fact that what what what what i wonder what the libertarian or would the libertarian just be the uh probably be a bird all right maybe like it well i feel like eagle is too obvious for like libertarian well in um and the once in future king uh one of the parts that was cut from the storm of stone disney maybe by the way was arthur has transformed into a goose uh and now the geese because they can fly they don't have any sense of like borders and they don't they they're not tied to the land in any way because they could go wherever they want so maybe they have that you know maybe that makes them sort of libertarian in a way but then again libertarians typically are very like patriotic you know they really love their countries and their land um so i don't know i guess yeah i guess i'm just trying to hone in on whatever it would be that is like the the fixed trade of a of a like a very happy go lucky sort of maybe no rules just does whatever maybe they're i guess depends what we're doing if we're doing like i you know like i guess the most the most favorable libertarian one that would be that but if we're making fun of like internet libertarians i want to be a little bit more mocking not because i think it's stupid as a thing i just find internet libertarians to be kind of amusing maybe a narrow i'm not sure what i wonder if that's like hmm like something i don't know i don't know i want to be really funny with it though like that's that's you know like a kiwi that's a communist that's really stupid so i like the idea of it being really stupid animal all right i got nothing i feel like there could be a lot there's a lot more animals who'd be easy to believe are communists because they are um like they're super duper collectivists and they hang out in groups all the time and they're very it's like super i think it's because um the idea of maybe animal wait wait wait what are the fish that hang out in huge groups and just wait to try and they like they sit on the ones that suck off the teeth of the shark yeah there you go i like yeah he's a libertarian fish that swims alongside sharks try to suck off its tit wait i have to i have the right i have the right to feed off the bottom of any bigger uh any bigger oh yeah i was saying in regards to the covetous idea yeah that makes yeah it's amusing to me i think i want to find a way to do it creating a tv show here well i know i think i can do it in the freaking comic that could be like the one of the side characters it's just a kiwi bird that's inexplicably in australia and inexplicably a communist just wearing this stupid fucking hat so like how communist so like there's a like you can't be communist and australian is that like a part of it you know someone someone tries to lampshade it by calling out was isn't it weird that there's a communist kiwi here and the kiwi just like well am i not allowed to be communist what am i not allowed to be in australia yeah i'm a citizen of the world guys well you call it all out with the funny hat as the ending and then they're like what's wrong with the hat yeah i like this hat it's neat it shields my face from the sun us kiwis don't like the sun so very much it's bad for our feathers i feel like i think a penguin would be good for libertarians maybe so i can imagine a new one for capitalists then um also penguins stick together in big groups but libertarians don't have anything to do with that necessarily you could have groups of libertarians it's like so you have like you don't have like everybody has their like everybody in all the penguins they are they're off doing their own thing down there in the cold and people might say wow that's really kind of you know strange how you guys are off there in that weird place they're like no no but this is our place you know we live here in the cold we live in the arctic and you know we each raise our own kid and we each have to you know take our turn you know doing this and we each have our duties and responsibilities and that's like uh but but we give ourselves those things no one tells us we do it because we know we got to do it yeah maybe you're putting a lot more thought into the penguin than i did for the kiwi i will say that's right well putting in more thought that's what we encourage here on this uh on this here little program we do the big reveal the end go and capitalist is man oh you could go the completely opposite direction and try and put in as little thought as possible so that each one of each animal is chosen to be as far removed from the ideology it represents as is physically possible yeah so you go to i don't know anarchism and you just take some you social insect isn't actually like an anarchist dance down with the system i hate queens royalties gay get food for the queen all right or be as well you can have an anarchist to be down this is wage slavery no honeycomb not honey slave what would it be some sort of slavery to just honey pollen slavery you know why we should all have an equal amount of pollen why do we have to go get the pollen for the queen just to live and you know well i guess worker bees right so they could try to unionize oh this this fucking bee movie that we're just coming up with now a masterpiece in film what if that movie is so amusing to me the fact that it exists and like there's the one character ken who is the most reasonable character in the whole movie and everybody treats him like he's insane i think there's a part in the movie where he walks past the like his old home and um barry the bee his name is on the side it is like that bee is living my life let it go Kenny where will the nightmare end i think the reason why be movie existed was because uh i think uh jerry seinfeld was like how bee movie what about if it was like a bee movie and then it was like here's a hundred million dollars make it happen that was fucking brilliant mr seinfeld yeah make it real though yeah i mean that movie is kind of about nothing it's just interesting because bees ascension but like none of the other animals are this is really confusing it sounds like a seth rogan movie idea what if it was like a bee movie but like it was like actually a bee so anyway oh so somebody says apparently he pitched it to spielberg who thought he was joking and said it was a great idea hey i'm sure it was successful right bee movie uh i mean it made some money back yeah but i mean they've never done successful in the mean market but you can't put a price on it being more like a meme and cultural icon that's true yeah like shrek like shrek shrek is an interesting one because we all meme it but shrek is actually pretty great as far as movies go yeah i think those people agree with that i don't know many people they hate shrek you know like fuck shrek release the shrek cut what yeah i guess shrek is a little different from like for instance people who legitimately think that um the the dance from spider man three is really good like as if that's really good as its own thing it's a hilarious meme but like in the movie it's terrible why you why you gotta hate that about no i love the meme i think it's one of my favorite memes ever like i saw a uh a meme where it was uh it was deadpool but it was bully maguire it's really funny he stabs the dude who's coming at him and he says you'll get your money when you fix this damn door the reason that's so funny is he just couldn't pull it off like and so now it's just valuable as like a absurd thing that exists yeah i'm gonna gonna put some dirt in your eye as well i remember i had my face in my hands in the theater when that when you started dancing i'm like oh no no because i was such a like spider man and especially a venom fan i was like they're gonna put venom in this one and spider man two is so good this is gonna be so badass it was like such a uh my expectations were not met did you uh what do you think of venom like the venom the tom hardy one uh i didn't i thought i'd hate it i didn't hate it as much i thought i would uh i thought it was okay the by the time i got to the third act it was pretty pretty yeah like it's it's a pretty stupid movie but um i kind of like it yeah i liked uh there all that it got really actiony in the middle and i liked all that stuff that was cool and uh the next one is being directed by andy circus which makes me wonder like how that's gonna turn out it's one of the first oh wow did they not like him anymore well the first guy was a guy made zombie land which i like but uh i guess it's just that i'm curious to see what like an andy circus been i feel like any movie so it's on the land too oof i didn't see that one no so sneak snacks review it oh horrible i don't know what the hell happened they're like the first one as well i don't know why they they made it i'm not sure why uh money yeah well yeah i mean obviously but uh what what circus is directing yeah he's uh he is he's a busy boy he's playing alfred andy's directing like this movie a few things uh i guess it's i guess it's just uh like i always assume that like directing would take up all your time um like if you were the director of a project it would take up all your time how do you find the time to also like be acting in a movie well it's funny you say that because uh he acted in and directed portions of Lord the Rings uh did he direct certain parts of that yeah i believe the things peter jackson was obviously too busy to do um he did he directed some of it i i remember seeing it in the one of the behind the scenes things i find any circus to be so valuable as a very impressive man personally uh yeah i mean he is i guess it's just that he has probably single-handedly legitimized motion capture performance as a legitimate sort of you know medium yeah he's got he's got plenty of the most like well-known performances under his belt and at this point it's just normal now seiza seiza is like so convincing as a as a character yeah it's kind of incredible you know kind of it is i wonder how much like do you have to do a lot of like studying for like like sort of nature documentary style things to figure out the movements and stuff well i think um i remember seeing a video where he was explaining the way that he did it and he was explaining how uh as the film has progressed he tried to uh like he was trying to think about what the changes would be naturally so like in the first movie he's very ape-like but by the third one he's walking around with this huge amount of presence chest puffed up always standing upright um yeah it clearly put a lot of thought into it uh into the performance yeah moeller and your best german accent say it's not enough for them to call me a nazi they have to call me a magical super nazi now i don't know is that a thing there you go what's a magical super nazi it sounds i guess terrifying interesting red skulls with magic what makes him a super nazi and also he's kind of like isn't in in the captain america film he seems like he's way more interested in hydro than like anything to do with germany yeah he's planning on fucking up germany as well right i think he wants to blow up but yeah he wants to blow up berlin as well as like london and paris and musko and they're like what you're doing and he's like more ha ha and then leases them yeah if i move you the little rascals maybe uh inalienable inalienable trait of krogan four balls all right that must be it's horrifying to look at uh warhammer 40k orcs are the last of us zeds on steroids they racist i don't know man it's all racist okay that's the safe way of doing it wait 40k orcs are oh what well it's funny they said the last of us zeds on steroids it's like beds are a uh killing floor and last of us like the flora weird mushroom zombies and on steroids orcs and 40k just belligerent cockneys so do you think eighth century european villages saw viking raiders as evil killers i don't know that they were too concerned with figuring out exactly what they were motivated by rather than just oh my god please don't kill me or let's kill them oh i got a hit diapers out of a truck feels like a weird mission on judge me chat uh i recently had a big heated slugout debate about which was which was worse between the snider cut and the weed to cut uh we all stopped when we realized they were desperately arguing for two crummy films and that was just silly um pretty much yeah i'm not too bothered by uh just saying they're both shit but at the same time this weird narrative that sprung up where it's just like snider cut it's like phenomenally better than weed and it's like oh i mean well first to try and figure it out seems to me there's just more to praise about weed and and it's half the fucking size i don't know i laughed way harder at the weed and cut well i had way more fun like yeah that was way more fun yeah like because it was harder to understand what was happening a little bit for me with the weed and cut that added to the humor of it and then both nonsensical but that might just be because fucking following the plot is only going to punish you like when they try to explain the wheel building it's like you shouldn't you just shouldn't say anything you should just show people fighting and maybe then it would make more sense because we could all interfere what it means um apu describes himself as a lean mean vindaloo machine is that is that racist i don't think so but certainly problematic and should be erased yes of course good we've done this uh the extra credits guy sounds really smarmy and sarcastic like he doesn't believe what he's saying i mean well he just reads the fucking scripts i don't think he writes them though it's a good chance he just says all of it with confidence without even knowing if he's right so that's definitely gonna give a vibe uh left right l1r l2 r1r2 up down left right that was the jetpack cheat from gta san andreus i still remember after all these years true gamer new at dm who had to deal with someone like this and the dm explained this entire thing as they're trying to kill you for your stuff and because you don't worship their shining rock uh oh because you don't worship the shining rock there is no relating to them or negotiating possible yeah i don't know if they find that acceptable or not if they were just like no they have to be otherwise this is beard well i don't think that yeah i don't think they find anything acceptable other than i get my way honestly i wish for this narrative to follow my values and you're like oh well all right then i'm afraid that's not gonna be possible so you're gonna have to leave the table dnd party encounters mind flayer i'll decide it's moral compass myself give it a shot see what happens the orcs aren't black they just have low growth and opportunity oh i see it's got little eyes on it as well are two orcs in 40k evil or are they just following their nature which is to fight well that's an interesting one right if i wonder if they would say that's that's not allowed to like a a sort of a race that wishes to brawl like in some kind of natural way that you know just aggressive maybe i don't have that that said brawls are lethal by nature but you know the tornado that killed par kent was misunderstood i'd say so it had its own reasons for doing what it did that one tornado a star wars story yeah we can we can hope you know if only the franchise kicks off enough to just start spamming movies unfortunately tlj killed all of that do we do we remember that like it was going to be at one point one per year but then tlj just like fucking halted the shit out of all of it because everyone goes so upset they were like uh oh and then riser skywalker sort of slithered out and they're like okay we're gonna think about this now and then mandalorian was successful and they're like oh tv shows that's what we'll do tv shows yeah and they don't even have to be good like genuinely if johnson um if jay jay had made all three there is a good chance right now we would have had another like four fucking movies probably we would have been getting these side ones you know more of the anthology jay jay probably would have walked it in he would have just been like oh yeah luke is going to be real heroic um you know leah will lead her people as a general to victory will defeat you probably would have brought back the emperor again fuck it well people like jay i thought it was his idea oh wait then again he would have had snook be the trilogy villain wouldn't he that's what he would have done because when he once snook was killed he was like well i guess i'll bring back the emperor i don't know this i really want to see that timeline because i genuinely think that the conversation would have changed entirely like there would still be a lot of fans of jay jay's trilogy probably like no it was good shit it was what i was looking for in a star wars movie and like ryan changed everything comparing enemies don't we want a star wars movie every day yes like a new one that's at least every week like come on yeah isn't that the dream um comparing enemies in iron man one two enemies in wonder woman i've become convinced that marvel directors handled mature themes better than dc directors uh i i just don't think that's really a question to be honest with you marvel there's more consistency in thinking about what the actions mean unfortunately marvel have pretty much lost that now too uh you look at captain marvel wandavision and winter soldier other tv show i mean um we've already got loads of damning examples of characters taking particular actions and either being condemned where they shouldn't be or being celebrated when they really shouldn't be um and that's something dc had a huge problem with from the gecko the uh the films so uh yeah they're both probably going to be a disaster and we're all very worried about everything hopefully spider-man three is not garbage hopefully guardians three is not really you know hopefully the suicide squad isn't garbage as well yeah i hope that's good what is death of the author and is it good or bad the death of the author simply means that once the author has completed the work they have no influence over how it's to be understood or interpreted um it's a bit of a dramatic title for the idea that they are the author as a as a position of authority on the content as in they could literally write whatever they wanted to have happened as soon as it's done they're dead they're out there's nothing more they can do um yeah and so we apply this so say say i said you know uh grito shot first is something that lucas says after we see the original cut of the movie we're like no he didn't and he's like well i made it so he did and it's like oh that's nice but no he didn't he didn't and um the extreme cases are when you have say a situation could go one of three ways and it's all about interpretation and then the author goes oh no no no it was it was it was the second way the other two are nonsense then someone could be like oh that's good enough for me it was the second way while a friend of yours could be like fuck that it's it's the way i think it was it's not the way that they thought it was and um someone might consider this nonsense they were like how could you possibly think that you would know better than the author and it's like it's not really about that it's that the author can sometimes and this this happens to literally everybody they can misunderstand sometimes or best understand you know all circumstances are possible their own work they could actually accidentally create a storyline that they didn't mean to or a thematic sort of layer that they didn't mean to and then if they say that's not actually there you're just seeing stuff that doesn't exist that doesn't make it not exist the idea being that the whole bastion for you know legitimacy in terms of interpretation comes from the text itself yeah the only place you legitimacy comes from everyone's referencing jk rolling that's a good example she's like oh this is this this is this is this a go away jk go away stop it i guess she can rent in piece on twitter had somebody email me asking me for some writing advice um because they were they were writing a story and they were they wanted advice on their outlining process and i was saying like it all hinges on theme and then they replied that uh they didn't want their movie to have a message they didn't think that was important so it's just like a sequence of stuff happens that's and there's nothing really holding it together and i'm just like well you should consider the likely possibility that an audience is going to watch your movie and extract the message from it whether you intended for there to be one or not so you might as well put one in there and make it a decent one you know because that's what people do i think they observe things they see a pattern and they extract from that well on like a broad level if i had a movie that had six significant payoffs and they all involve someone trying to step up against some kind of wrongdoing and they get punished and that's the it'd be like what are you trying to say about like rebellions what are you trying to say about sort of courageous acts like what what does this mean i could be like what do you mean i'm just these are just these are just stories i'm telling about stuff i don't i'm not trying to say anything overall it's like well people will read into it right um and i think it's worth keeping in mind for sure you don't have to do these things um and a lot of people can make this story and a lot of people do they literally just like no it's what are you drawing all this stuff to do with political systems out of my out of my i think zacks knight is probably one of those people probably doesn't realize a lot of the stuff that he's put into his films are very interpret there's so many videos on youtube that interpret his work uh hardcore and i'm not even sure that he's aware or if it was by design but it's not very competently done i don't even want to pretend to know but um yeah it's an aspect of ryan i find really interesting so with care is a good idea of course hold her on had its chance i mean this is the thing when you watch man of steel um it wasn't zacks intention of course but you start to piece together the character of superman and his father and the actions he takes and it all lines up in a way that's not supposed to line up it wasn't it's clearly not what zack wanted but there's so many references to like wow he's psychopathic because of the things his dad told him when he was younger and he has a very flawed understanding of like the sanctity of life if you were just taking care of people because he doesn't give a fuck you'll toss the sword through a building and when it's like should i save people maybe maybe not it's like oh my god this is like a villain movie right um but of course these are supposed to be interpreted in different ways it was supposed to be clark was uh being warned by his father that you know maybe be careful about what what things you decide to do because it can lead to the meaningful choice was supposed to be clark understands that it's gonna cost him but he will choose to do it because it's important and to sort of set that up they have his dad tell him like maybe you should let children drown which was so incompetent it's unbelievable and then of course in the late game we have him destroying what remains of the kryptonian young in the in the earliest form of life because he's decided they had their chance like but you have chosen a more inept fucking thing for him to say before doing that and so if you were like no before murdering children they had their chance at life like no they didn't he could have said one star slice it yeah i don't know uh the author in that case can keep telling you no that's not what that means no that's not what this character and he's like bye bye get out of here you're no longer in control of this because it's done so that's death of the author uh whether or not it's good or bad it it is um it is that would be the main thing doesn't really have a alignment it's it can be brutal uh it can be unfortunate for a lot of creators when they look at their work and they're like oh shit i didn't account for that oh i didn't mean pressing no no no um yeah i don't know me no more they want to avoid talking about blade because his existence damages the narrative around black panther yeah they uh if you guys remember when that came out they were like the first black superhero in a movie yeah what the fuck are you talking about this is where have you been it wasn't even the second well if you count spawn as a superhero i mean i count the comic movie isn't steel the yeah like and there's a thing someone like those movies those movies are goofy it's like oh shut up we count them still blade is uh blade is a very awkward one because it was like one of the first modern comic book movies yeah people often cited as like what led to x-men in spider-man x-men yeah yeah it was fucking badass i remember watching him just being blown away it was like this is amazing it might not like a hold up now or anything or a lot of standards but um it was brought up like like rags everyone thought blade is badass and cock as well oh yeah hang on there's another one yeah correct uh luke also came out before black panther that's a tv show though yeah we don't know about them oh and also in x-men yeah they had well yeah storm was a character she was like one of the main characters yep um also rody war machine i mean he can't he was in 2010 uh no because he was in the first one too i mean you have to make it sound culturally significant and if you go finally a mainstream mcu solo movie with a protagonist that is black post 2015 or something like that you'll be like okay i saw a tweet recently where somebody said they're like can we you know every time that there's a movie that has like a predominantly black cast usually the film is about race as a as a thing like you know like racial like a movie about slavery or a movie about a certain period of time and they said it'd be it'd be nice that we had more movies where a lot of the characters were black but that wasn't a component of it and it's like oh i i kind of agree with that and then they said black panther was so refreshing because it wasn't like that and my media thought is like holy fuck black panther is all about that i'm not sure why you would pick black panther as an example of refreshing that's just a delusional person but i guess it's just they're they're wrong like that's what black panther is about um maybe the next one won't be about that but that one certainly was that's probably it made so much money because it was marketed that way well the thing is it's like i kind of agree i feel like it's uh i feel like surely the ideal world is where we get to the point where like nobody even cares what the makeup of the of the film is um but like black panther ain't that like black panther was all about that um and also it's kind of a retarded thing so in fact the more that i think about it the more that i realize they're wrong because like the nutty professor isn't about that um like uh uh bevelie hill's cop isn't about that there are like a lot of movies from the 80s and 90s that had either black guys as like the main character or as the side character you know like the sidekick like in uh edit the weapon or well yeah there's that as well i guess it's just weird because i grew up on a lot of 80s and 90s movies and so like i always assumed that there was lots of camaraderie and that everybody got along um and then i found out that apparently no people didn't get along and that made me really sad i really miss the whole the i mean and god damn wasn't that was like what uh that was what uh die hard three was all about right was um yeah the budding of heads but also this acknowledgement that maybe zoos has a problem with john mccain like like maybe there's something here that needs to be recalled john just let it just let it go john mccain oh what do not to mention out of context zoos has an issue with john mccain john mccain heir to the mccain french fries fortune i didn't realize i said john mccain John mccain and die hard three could you imagine and yeah the literal zoos going on an adventure to stop alfred from uh from blowing up the skull and what a universe we've what's several movie universes we've created tonight um uh one thing that the whole can they choose evil question matters to your characters whether hating the orcs is justified or not not whether again if fighting them is justified that's a given um i'm gonna be honest with you i'm not sure if that's trying to conflict with the video or the things we've commented on but i'm i'm afraid we really are reaching limits here you know in terms of my capacity to be able to read i'm also failing this mission over and over and i think i'm starting to realize it's probably because i need to uh you know stop soonish um but but uh we'll try and read uh death of the author blade if i could kill tornadoes i would kill every tornado i saw and people would call me a hero yeah if your power is a hero where to be able to repel tornadoes you'd be fucking beloved kill those tornadoes fuck them up stab them with your tornado knife don't ask me how it works it just do punch them right in the face i think it was making me lose as well as i kept assuming i was supposed to run away from chief wiggum it's one of those ones you got to follow him okay they flipped the script on me because he's a co-op uh a dnd fap would be neat i um i i don't know maybe i'm so unfamiliar with dnd i feel like i could end up being a detriment to what is happening as long as you go in with that like because i didn't really know the first time i played it i was very no i i i still don't even know that much about the rules just the basics and if it's explained in a casual way as you go then i imagine it's not going to be an issue at all one thing i've seen about most dnd players i've run into is that they will jump at the opportunity to get anyone else into their hobby oh yeah that makes sense right if you have a bunch of people learning as they go like that's that's kind of in its own way sort of fun so you'd be playing dnd not watching that dog-shit movie with jeremy irons hey that's one of his greatest performances we're gonna do that for you if that movie is at some point and it'll be fantastic put on the collar rags someone wants you to put on the collar um i wonder if extra credits would still maintain the choice of having parlay and diplomacy if the enemy npcs are nazi soldiers or the kkk no erase erase them all no guns have to be exterminated so fucking weird to me that they actually had that in there it's like hey if your enemies make it clear visually that they're evil kill them okay after everything else you just said all right uh mola saw your face on the soma videos why don't you fit my head cannon for what you look like still love you also wonder vision rage by rags hey yeah i mean you know i'm i'm so sorry but hey a gas mask is good enough right just picture the little bionics in there that make this voice come out it makes total sense as for one division rage i feel like we kind of annihilated one division on the eve have we did yeah we were quite thorough with that i would even say we were quite well like like it just flowed really well from topic to topic and we had a whole bunch of um different takes how it fucking sucks like all of it sucks oh one division i don't know if we'll be able to muster it for winter soldier tv show thing i'm honestly not sure i have to watch them and see what happens i don't know um at rags go cry and leave the voice call because you didn't get your way just like you did in tales i don't know i never left that one so short for some entails of something or yeah it's the campaign name with uh that bill ran yeah i never left that one that one yeah i never left that one the dm decided he didn't want to do it anymore so that doesn't make any sense to me um well is it didn't get your way i don't know if they're saying it ended or whatever but i mean if it ended then i didn't get my way if that's the case i would have preferred it went further but if he didn't if the dm didn't feel like he wanted to keep doing it then fair enough it's his choice i wouldn't want him to do something he didn't want to do if rags have a dm a path find a game i'd love to join it also high metal worry what i said well this thing is fucking efeb ever did i think spirit yes rags would probably be the dm if we did it on you i don't fucking know whatsoever how to do that fun i would volunteer but no we don't trust you theo you'll create a game with yeah think this evil species or some shit and that is fucking all of them are evil on no i'm gonna play as the good one of the evil tribe and be like hey guys stop eating human flesh enough oh eat each other's flesh it's way better hey rags experience with adversely players is him being the problem i don't even know what that means i'm trying to figure that one out rags experience with adversely players is him being the problem yeah i got no clue hey mola misanthropony recently apologized for his comments about you in his latest tlj video aside from the brony cringe he makes decent vids thoughts on him having guests possibly also high rags hello uh i was like i'm pretty sure that's the video that said like it was the funny thing it was it was misanthropony made i think it was like the second video on tlj in a series where they were like i'm not crazy enough to rant about this movie for like hours on end like mola i don't remember being like okay um but then they ended up making a series it was almost as long as mine i was like huh um but apparently they apologized they didn't really like it's not like i think you have to apologize for saying that i just i just thought it was a funny thing to say about a series of cybeltatus you're a long fuck but um as for misanthropony coming on i am not against the idea i'm just not familiar with their content you can only make a long video with the correct beliefs well it's fun isn't it when it's like the the meme that happened with the snyder co is so funny so movies are typically around two hours and so every time i make a video it'll be almost like two hours this is a lot of the time around about the length my rages could end up being i say this that's bullshit they go from like half an hour to two hours to two and a half hours i don't even know point being a lot of movies will be shorter than the rages or the critiques or whatever so a common thing is if you've taken longer than the movie to criticize it then there's something wrong with you and i've always been like okay not true at all but who do you um with the snyder cut my video was two hours and 18 minutes i think and so the film is four and so it changed with the snyder people to if your video is half as long as the movie that this something wrong with you it's like oh man how long is a completely arbitrary rule it depends how in depth you go right maybe there's like plenty of material to go over another thing i have stuff to say i'm gonna take as long as i need to take to say it it's fine with me throw in some jokes some snappy editing try and entertain you folks it'll be fun but if i've won three three extra credits is stupid no human being in their sane mind ever thinks this way none of extra credits reasonings hold up to scrutiny certainly not like this is a legitimate criticism normal people do not think the way that they believe normal people do it's just not a thing yeah it just don't yeah james mendez hodes is not a normal at all person when it comes to this stuff like he this is this is like this thing he has with orcs and his fascination with rays constantly is very much a he it's very much a him thing like i kind of picture is yeah my dad loves lord the rings if i said to him like don't you think it's a bit fucked but they kind of the orcs don't you think they kind of connect to to black people i think even trying to get the width out to him he'd be like what in the hell are you what where why would you say that i'd be like why don't you feel it's fucking bizarre at the end of that video on his channel i was waiting for his mom to shout from the distance james dinner are you talking about orcs again coming mom your step mom changing the world the world needs to hear this about justice someone's got to speak for the orcs mom the ox not real when are you gonna get a girlfriend in a job get a job 40 years old james why are you gonna make me a grandmother the issue just wants to be a grandmother so cute just say no to gondola brutality orc lives matter true possibly we gotta we gotta sit at orc down in an interview see see what it's all about ooh extra credits please just play undertale for the 10th time i never played undertale does undertale have have ideas about this kind of undertale it tries to subvert the typical you know rpg thing if you run into random encounters and you kill them thing it's says what if the what if they're just you know what if they're not the bad guys and has pacifist roots and all that kind of thing likes to play with the fact that it's a video game a lot neat um check out every 40k faction explained by bricky for a good rundown of the universe and its many factions also the channel boulder mort for amazing law there you go if you're listening and those things sound attempting check them out i suppose i am i'm so disconnected from 40k yeah boulder mort like yeah boulder mort oh i'm guessing the the creator of the channel might be bald i am not sure oh i thought i meant bold isn't brave oh yeah bald immortal bald immortal you americans not being able to tell the difference between words that sound exactly the same fucking idiots boulder mort versus boulder mort in 40k the imperium aren't good guys but they're just the least awful most of the time necrons are literally mindless metabots it's the worst x yaks x the worst x i imagine they're yeah they're very not friendly it's probably the towel worse than humans i don't know yo do you have answers to this huh what's that sorry for the towel worse than humans say potentially all right i didn't catch that you were both talking um so that's right it's all good i mean i'm interested yeah go for it are the are the the super chat well so the super chat said um the humans are just the least awful um is that true in the 40k universe is there anyone that could compete um the competition would be the towel but they are like mind controlled space collectivists so they're not great i didn't even have to mention them who else no one else really maybe the elder but they're horrible oh yeah pretty much everyone's all the orcs in 40k are space fungus that use crowd mentality to change reality to make their technology work all right that's so true york's in oh wait uh rags the legion was going to be a morally ambiguous faction in new vegas but oblivion unfortunately ran out of time cut content restores a lot an oblivion uh yeah yes they wait they were sorry new vegas new vegas oh okay um yeah i could see because like i get what they're trying this is this is an issue that i do have with new vegas as incredible as the game is it's pretty clear which one of the sides is the evil one uh i get the intentions and the writing can be really solid in a lot of ways but i feel like it wasn't fleshed out in the way to be to make the choice a lot more like close between the two um so i i can believe that yeah i can believe that um this is one of the few times where i think you're automatically assuming bad faith when you shouldn't i used to follow ec they seem to be 40k fans and the books do tend to be more morally complex it wouldn't matter whether extra credits of fans of 40k they could still be wrong about it yeah and um yeah i mean this isn't about whether or not they fans of it i don't trust extra credits just at all and yeah and even like this is james mendez hoad's saying these things he's the writer for this episode he's the guest writer so it's not really extra credits except that they i guess they agree with all this stuff or they're in strong support of it in fact i think that's absolutely certainly the case and also um like with my little context on extra credits compared to it's pissing off loads of warhammer 40k fans i'd be like hmm i feel like they may have misrepresented something here and there or or had gaps in knowledge but then i mean that's on top of the fact i think their argumentation is piss poor anyway so um but uh you might well this is the thing i wonder if um i wouldn't really care to uh contradict the idea that i have a poor like a bias against a lot of the people we cover on efap to start with but like only natural bias right like we're about to start up a cosmonaut video i wouldn't be like oh we're in for some great arguments so but at the same time i'm gonna take them all piece by piece and see what we think right it's not like extra credits are incapable of making a good video i just don't think this one was one neither was the other two we've covered i think we want to cover the we've covered three now you know what when you have a three and we're disappointed in you starts to create a a pattern a history i find it irritating that like not only do they make poor arguments but their theme tune is like bomb bomb battlefield rock like dinner dinner dinner dinner yeah we're gamers yeah like it's like soft rock it's gentle rock it's it's not not the not the guy but it's kid rock you know yeah like it's rock you could yeah it's like it's yeah it's very inoffensive sort of yeah it's it's uh it's music that would play in a 90s uh toy commercial yeah you remember that old game you played well listen to this we're not like there's other toys we're cool but mom still likes it so she'll buy it um rags you're so bad at pathfinder i paid $50 to kill your character so i'm sure whoever you gave the $50 to is very thankful for that but you just seem spiteful and i don't know maybe you should look into that what a thing you can do you can just hate and get people knocked out of the dnd games well i never my character never died so i guess you just gave someone i guess you gave bill 50 bucks so i'm sure he's very appreciative of that he's he's not stupid enough to be like oh someone gave me $50 i'm gonna kill one of my characters now he did have a really he had a cool little thing where if someone gave like a super chat or enough money he would incorporate something that they wanted into the game which i think can be really nifty because it sort of adds a sort of semi-random kind of aspect to it which i sort of liked uh-huh so but yeah if if yeah i'm sure he appreciates your $50 and you did not get what you wanted you also seem like a really spiteful person again you should probably look into that it seems like a seems like something you need to really deal with there are two games are very similar themes and use of meta fiction as spec ops align and are actually fun games as well near automata and undertale in short spec ops has been super annuated it is referenced constantly to this day through yeah spec ops still stands and its existence is still valuable also i'll be right back i gotta use the lou yeah i mean um it would be nice we have more content that does delve into more complex ideas or criticism of current trends in different things but at the same time there are some things that just don't want to be doing that in the first place oh what it's wonderful that's what we call diversity yeah this is i of m has to be that way or they will die oh imperium of man oh okay they have to be that way or they will die that doesn't mean it's not a horrible regime actively described as the most brutal regime imaginable come on what does that mean they have to be that way or they die is it something like they gotta be so oh also that's not even true because it's hilariously corrupt and inefficient uh it by it's it has to be that way or they will die they mean because the imperium of man is upset like on all sides by its enemies and the argument is that if it wasn't operating like it currently is it would have fallen already which isn't true because it's stated to be incredibly inept and corrupt as well well then yeah i mean uh 40k seems very interesting from all the little tidbits i'm getting from all these different messages it's like it's very interesting very unique and very silly and also ripped so much from dune like so much that came from dune dune copied simpson's in run so well you might just want you to consider that next time you shit on whoa so the guy i was supposed to kill spawned underneath me and he shot into a wall and died and i just shot into the air um oh wow that's the quickest time anyone's ever completed that mission i did it i fucking nailed that bishop guys speed running that probably is a speed red tactic for that mission gosh just top notch i want to play a few warhammer 40k games but i don't know where to start what for hammer 40 war k games should be played for pc or ps4 list three of each also heimola hello i don't know how to answer that question uh space means yeah space brings a good one problem is air games are really bad that's in most of them the dawn of war games probably space marine and the dawn of war games are i think the best you're gonna get yeah also look at chat i suppose there's probably gonna be a bunch of suggestions in there oh mechanicus i've heard really good things about mechanicus the best scene in some sense hit and run kankotovs is there actually a game called space marine yeah yeah oh it sounds like a placeholder title for halo space marines are just called space marines so it's not like it's called interstellar marine these aliens that would be lame none of the dnd editions and settings ever stated that all orcs have to be evil there was always room for the dm's own interpretation then we distribute yeah the dm always has control over the ruries the dm's always over above the rules if the rules stated tell me i want to do i was gonna say if a book has a particular rule can the dm just say like well that's not applicable in my run of this particular yes nothing stopping nothing could stop them they could do homebrew rules where they come up with rules of their own um they could say we're gonna change this rule or these things don't apply yeah absolutely dm has uh say on all of it rules are like guidelines yeah unironically twice acrimorphs weren't the bad guys yes they horrifically murder mutilate and kill all of sentient life but one of them likes cake important i think cake's pretty neat um hello long dog are there any good west and animated series that you would recommend i need a break from the common anime styles and tropes is that directed at rags then is it me yeah they're asking you what they should watch for western animated series because they're tired animated series um they're tired of the animal uh if you're i don't know really i'm not a big cartoon guy in terms to the point to be able to recommend things like that um like there's a lot of cartoons i like you edit netty curds the cowardly dog stuff like that um i like uh what is uh finneas and furb i i i i think that's a fun clever little show uh you know what people are saying like the simpsons it's a good show bobsburg is uh i didn't watch all of it venture bros samurai jack once at bojack how dare you the clone wars uh yeah i say rick and morty without getting slayed but uh owlpuff girls not whatever they're doing with it now um yeah that's probably a something i think from the i just finished a slight set of missions we're probably gonna we're gonna wrap up there i'm gonna grab these and hopefully do another dream with ragu at some point to to catch up on him is oh yeah absolutely i'm down for that we've been going a long time there's a lot of fodder in that video to go over and discuss but before any sense of leaving is committed to shall we shall we have i was going to say theo you could but then still haven't made a video theo the fuck i'm working on it there's a lot to talk about and a lot of uni work to do in the meantime any uh any updates on a on a script being tooled away with or uh i have progressed forward a section there we go there is i'm redrafting as i go so it is a slow process you know it's going i would say that's the fighting news and um yeah the the links in the description to one day get notified that a video has come out by theo something how very exciting nice before then don't subscribe right if i then go hey hey hey john what are you up to what's happening on your channel these days what's happening next what's to be hype about everyone watch so i am john graham on youtube i'm famous for a series called arby and the chief i made a video called master chief sucks at halo that went viral in 2007 and right now i'm working i'm still doing it and it's i'm working on master chief sucks at fortnight that's my new video that i'm gonna be getting out probably this uh within a couple weeks i'll have that done so you gotta check out that if you're a bad enough dude oh yeah if they're feeling risky yeah um if you want really hardcore shit hardcore gamer if you're a real gamer not a question of if you want to be in a gamer all right uh fringy what are you up to uh i'm working on the end game video uh yeah that's it's it's i would say it's coming along but it feels like it's not just because there's so much work to do like it's not even close to being done um i'd like to think about getting something out in the meantime but i'm not quite sure what that'll be tinkering around with a few ideas and the frigging comic i'm staring at a blank page right now on my drawing display i didn't get anything done so you know that's a great way to go into the rest of the day with self-loathing um but otherwise yeah it's just the end game video uh and the comic and being doing some streams otherwise yeah consider them the um bonus e-fap episodes you know or you get guest stars in a certain sense because like yeah most of you guys end up on there like most of the time anyway yeah and then myself working away on the boys really really getting there close to being able to give what would be quite a um much more reassuring update in terms of instead of just saying i'm working on it because it's enormous but um it it be coming and it was it was it was nice to have the two-week break uh from from from e-fap in a sense because we put out uh the offline one to not only deal with snide a cup but also to just hit the ground running on the boys one but um it's also nice to be back i have fun tonight good shit extra credit is cringe but that is what brings us together cringe the cringe is the binding force yeah of the universe welcome to cringe fap every frame of cringe you oh no you fact that sounds sounds yeah that one will be long and more details as as i get further along in the production um was is there anything you want to you got you got stuff coming right right yeah i do absolutely yeah uh would be faster than uh normal but yeah yeah actually yeah i do have stuff coming and i think it'd be pretty soon that it'll probably be done is this dog bites or rugs like stuff is this is this is going to come out on rags or dog bites yeah main channel stuff taking a it's hard for me to concentrate and focus on like a big singular project but uh just not it's really tough for me to just do that and stick with that kind of project so i've got some stuff that i'm doing instead that's more akin to my old content response sort of things um that are much easier to make and that i sort of enjoy a bit more and um that that's just something i can really it's just more me and it's already going a lot faster and i feel more motivated motivated to do it all right um is there anything else anybody wants to say before we nah i got nothing the video was bad there you go yeah the video was bad and uh we'll be back next week with whatever else happens to be of course we're going to be checking out some snider cut videos at some point um especially after how great hilarious that arc has been more dcu efap movies to come more batwoman to come and uh who knows what else plenty of fun if you want to learn more about game design go watch extra credits on youtube man watching extra credits and mark brown back to back i you're gonna make one of the most incredible games to ever grace this planet um good night good morning good afternoon all it's been very fun thank you so much for joining us and for the um messages and donations and we will catch you next time thanks everybody bye bye everyone