 This is, without question, one of the more controversial issues that you're going to find when it comes to dealing with salvation, with Christianity. So let me just say this as we start. Do your very best, because there are going to be some folks who are going to disagree. That part is fine, it's understood. As a matter of fact, it's even to be, in many cases, to be expected. The disagreeing is fine. And there's going to be accusations either by people that are watching live or those are going to come back and watch it later. And resist the urge or the temptation to treat someone who is a Christian, who he knows a Christian, who differs on how we come to salvation. Resist the urge to treat them like a heretic. Resist the urge to treat them like a wolf. This is not another gospel, whether you believe what I'm saying, whether you disagree with what I'm saying. Please do not treat your brother like an unbeliever. An unbeliever is someone who has not placed their faith in Christ. A different gospel is a gospel that teaches that salvation comes outside of placing your faith in Christ or by placing your faith in Christ plus something else. Those are the things that you could use to say, hey, listen, I vehemently disagree with you and I may have to treat you as though you are a wolf, as though you are a heretic. That's not what we're doing today. We're talking about this issue of salvation and really the question is, does God initiate our salvation? What is the role that God plays in salvation? Now, we have a long history of seeing how Christians, I'm sorry, not Christians, how people, how mankind behaves. When offered something good, when offered the right thing, how does he typically respond? And so that is one of the things that we're going to think about and discuss as we are looking at this. Now, let me say it again. Before I get going, someone is going to call me a Calvinist. Fine. It sometimes gets to the point where I say, you know what? Whatever you want to call me. I guess I am a three point Calvinist, maybe a two point Calvinist, two and a half point Calvinist. At some point in time, you're going to realize that I'm not. But if that's what you want to call me, I don't have a problem with it. It's not like in my book that Calvinism is a dirty word. It's not. It absolutely is not. As a matter of fact, there's a reason why folks think that I am because we walk along the same sides. And so I can see where people might see that there are some things that I differ with and you might see those. Matter of fact, you're going to see those here. There's one point where I am going to help a Calvinist out because there's a part of their argument that it just doesn't compute. But that being clear, again, one of the more prominent seminaries in America is a dispensational seminary, which is Dallas Theological Seminary. They may have some views that align up with Calvinism. That doesn't make them Calvinists. Matter of fact, you'll see them oftentimes in many cases telling you why they are not Calvinists as well. But that's fine. People in, especially in the YouTube sphere, they know of two things, Calvinists and non-Calvinists. That's all they know, which for many of them lets you know their level or depth of understanding the different theological systems. So if you want me to be a Calvinist, that's fine because what I want to talk about is going to resonate with many Reformed Calvinist brothers and is going to upset people who are not Calvinists. But again, we're going to look at the scriptures. By the way, I was looking around. I was trying to see it wasn't an exhaustive search, granted. So you all could help me on this before we get started. I have not seen this whole issue of predestination, this issue of pre-faith regeneration. I haven't seen debates that involved a lot of Greek grammarians. I can't recall, as a matter of fact, I haven't seen one involving anyone from Dallas Theological Seminary. And the reason why I say Dallas Theological Seminary is because, again, Dallas Theological Seminary is known more for their grasp on the languages. If you want to pick a seminary that has a strong suit in Hebrew and Greek, it's DTS. And I don't recall seeing, they might be out there, but a debate with someone on staff or one of the grammarians, Hebrew or Greek, having this debate with someone. Maybe it's because once you start going through the languages, you're almost left defenseless to argue the point. Again, I don't know, maybe they're out there. Anyway, let's go ahead and jump to my question. I'm going to start off this way. If you were to talk to, or if there's someone that you know that finds themselves in hell, if there's someone who finds themselves in hell, how did I work this? I had a particular person in hell. Does that person have a legitimate complaint as to why they're there? Could a person in hell say, I shouldn't be here and have any sort of legitimacy to that statement? Well, no. Because the person in hell will have, thank you, Nick A, the person in hell, you have thrown the whole thing off. No, Nick A, no. Almond milk is not superior. Regular cow milk is Christian milk. Almond milk is like the progressive milk. Almond milk is, I don't know, that's what Isaiah's sound of our drinks. How about that? I'm kidding. You had to throw that out there and mess the whole live stream up. But the person in hell will have no one but himself to blame. Would you all agree? The person in hell has been afforded the opportunity. Now, this is where I'm going to depart from Calvinist. So you all want to call me Calvinist? Fine. I believe that everyone has the opportunity. We're going to look at that in a second. We're going to see a passage, a couple of passages probably, but definitely at least one. That says that people do have that opportunity and the chance or the choice. And so I think the person in hell can be told you had a chance and you did not accept it. You had an opportunity, you did not accept it. I do believe that, unlike a Calvinist, that we are depraved, but not to the point where we cannot make a decision in favor of Christ. It's just that we will not. I'll explain in just a little bit. But that person who is in hell had a choice. The issue is what then does that matter? In fact, let's say that's one person. That one person can't complain. Even if that person, that situation is multiplied times a thousand. If there are a thousand people in hell, all thousand, all one thousand, we would say that that person, all of them had an opportunity to choose and did not. If there are a million people in hell, I think that all one million would say the same thing. You had an opportunity to choose and you did not. If there are one billion, you all should see where I'm going. If there are one billion people in hell, we would say all one billion of you deserve to be in hell and the reason why you're there is because you did not choose. What if we say 15 billion? 15 billion people are in hell and all 15 billion will have the same thing said to them. You had an opportunity to choose and you did not. Or if the opportunity was placed before you, you rejected God. Either rejected God before an opportunity was placed there, an opportunity for you to actually place your faith in Christ, or you demonstrated that no matter what was placed before you, you're not going to choose. And so all 15 billion earned their way to hell. Now, why did I say like that? Why did I set this up this way? Well, God, in my opinion, knows that and the reason why I landed on 15 billion is because it's supposed to be 15 billion people. There are about 14 to 15 billion people that have ever lived on the planet. The seven or eight billion now, plus the seven or so billion that have already lived. So about 15 billion people have either lived or are living combined. And if God sees that all 15 billion people given the opportunity would still not choose him, that's possible, right? Because if one person can reject Christ, certainly 15 billion can. If one can, then the next person, the next person, the next person. Now, God is a just God, so God is going to judge sin. But God is a loving God. As a loving God, if he wants to show his love to all 15 billion, he could. If God wants to show his love to, what if God wants to show his love to 14 billion people? Or 14 billion, 999 million, 999, and only left one person in hell. Would we consider him to be a loving God? Sure. What we do sometimes is that we kind of look at God's love if we look at it in these terms as though he's unfair or unjust because maybe more people weren't giving that, weren't shown the same level of love or focus or attention. Well, if God saved one person, he's just as loving if he saves all 15 billion or 12 billion or 5 billion or just 10 people. He's just as loving and still just at the same time. Again, I've never played God, I've never been God, I've never played him in TV commercial. Neither have you. And so sometimes we try to imagine what it would be like to be God, what we would do if we were God. We just can't. But God has a problem on his hands. His problem, I think, that nobody chooses him. How do I know? Well, and I wasn't going there, but Romans 3, did I even put it up there? Did I even put up Romans 3? I did not put up Romans 3, but let me put up, you know what, let me just add it to the screen. Let me just add this to the screen. Let's go, let's put up Romans 3. I just want to read the passage because this is all of us. As a matter of fact, I'll put it up without even putting the Greek up the side. How about that? Two, three, four, put it on the screen. So Romans, I didn't even put up Romans 3. All right, there we go. Romans 3. Now, Paul is speaking about Jews and so forth and about salvation. He just started talking about God's righteousness. And now he's looking at, he just got through speaking about Jews. He says, what then is the advantage that the Jews have? Or what is the value of circumcision? He says, much in every way to begin with the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? That's important. Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? Why is that important? Let me go. I feel almost naked by not putting the Greek up the side. So, but why is that put there? Well, because God made a promise. God made a promise to them, not that they made a promise to him, not that Israel or the Jews approached God with the problem. They didn't think they had a problem. They didn't know they had a problem. Israel didn't approach God and said, God, we want to be with you forever. No, God chose Israel. We're going to look at this issue of him choosing Israel in just a little bit. But let's go back to it. He says, but the question on the floor is because they were faithlessness. They were full of faithlessness. They were not faithful. Does that negate or nullify God being faithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means. Let God be true and everyone a liar as it is written that you may be justified in your words and prevail when you are judged. But if our righteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us. I speak in human way by no means. For then how could God judge the world? If through my lie, God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that God the good may come? As some people slanderously charged us with saying their condemnation is just now. Here we go. What then are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all both Jew and Greek are under sin. There's the issue. That's why I framed it that way in stating that what if all 15 billion people choose to remain in sin, choose to live how they want to, even when faced with impending death and an opportunity. What if all 15 billion choose death, choose sin, either directly or indirectly? Well, that's the issue here. All are under sin. We all sin. That's his point, whether they be Jew or Gentile. Okay. And so he says no one. He says, as is written, there is none righteous. No, not one. He's making this statement even after the cross. There is no one that has the ability within themselves to be called righteous. You are not in right standing. Guys, remember that. That is important. You are born on the wrong side of the ledger. You were born not in right standing, but in wrong standing. You were born in not in right standing. If anyone says that, then he has something to boast about. No, you were born horrible. How do I know? Again, you all see my sweet little two year old grandson. Honestly, guys, I'll be honest with you. Love him to death, but he's not so sweet. He's two. He's a human being. He's a two year old human being. Given the opportunity, if not trained properly, he'll grow up and be a beast. He will grow up and destroy the world if not trained. Okay. And love him to death just like my, I've got a brand new, how old is my grandson named Corey? Wonderful name, by the way. He is two months old. Two months. Yeah, two months. Sweet. He has no personality. He just, he just eats and cries and sleeps and poops. That's it. And maybe not necessarily in that order, but that's what he does. But when he gets older, oh, wow, he is going to be a terror. If he's not, if there's nothing to constrain him, so are you. So was I. We grow up. The Bible talks about what kind of people we are. We are wicked from the womb. Now the Bible is talking about these wicked judges, but we're the same way. There's none of us that, that, that, that, that, uh, differentiates us from them. And all we like street, sheep, we go astray. So from the moment we are born, we are looking to go astray. That's just what we do. That's who we are. And so Paul makes a statement. There is none righteous, not one, not you. Meaning there's nothing righteous enough about you to even make the decision to become righteous. No one understands. Look at this. No one seeks for God. Now some will say no one can seek for God. I say no one will seek for God. And that, that's, that's really the way you take the passage. No one is seeking for God. No one is seeking for God. Um, what you want to be careful of guys and, and by the way, I recorded a video. I'm going to rerecorded on a hermeneutics. I did something silly with the camera, but having a consistent hermeneutics will say I'm not going to read any condition into this Bible. So let's put it back on the screen again. So let's put it on the screen. It says as it is written, no one is righteous. No, not one in verse 11. No one, no one understands. No one seeks for God. Look what he says. All have turned aside together. They have become worthless. No one does good. Not even one. If you are going to come and tell me that there's something about you, either in your intelligence, in your heart, your eyes, your ears, you are, it makes such sense that you are going to, the gospel makes sense to me. I'm going to seek after God. The gospel makes sense to me that I'm going to turn and go after him. And I'm going to start doing good. No, that means, that means guys that Paul is wrong. And the inspiration that he was under in writing this, the Holy Spirit is also wrong. It says verse 12, all have turned aside together. They have become worthless. No one does good, not even one. So we don't have the right to even think that we are any different than those 15 other billion people who are on their way to hell either in hell or on their way to hell. And that's the dilemma that God is faced with. Nobody is going, I've thrown a party and no one wants to come. They might say, yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there. And then they don't show up. So now there's a problem with this issue as it relates to what I want to talk about predestination and regeneration, because there are going to be those that say, well, it violates free will. Now I've stated that I don't believe in the term free will. But if you want to use a term free will, fine. I don't care if you use a term free will. I just want us to think about what our will is actually tied to. If you are not in Christ, then your will is certainly influenced and affected by sin. If you say otherwise, then you are not paying attention to the Bible. It says, we are of our father, the devil. We were once in darkness. We were once dead in our sins. So if you think that sin is not, it affected everybody else, but not you, not your will. Well, no, you got nothing coming. But then on the flip side, if you become a believer and you think that the Holy Spirit doesn't affect your will either, well, then now you've just downplayed and downgraded the power and effectiveness of the Holy Spirit. All right. So now I think that we have a will. We have the ability to make choices and decisions. I think God does too. We'll talk about his in a second. But people think that one of the issues with what I'm talking about is that it violates our ability to choose. It does not. What I'm going to show you, because I want to talk to you about what predestination and what regeneration is not. We'll talk about also what it is, but obviously we're going to talk about what it is not. People will say it's unfair. If God chooses these people, then he chose but didn't choose other people. That's not fair. Well, we're going to deal with that as well. If it's fair or not. If you believe in free will, you can never make that argument. If you believe in your ability to choose, you can never make the argument that if God were to choose that it's unfair because you also have the ability to choose and you didn't do so. Another argument that's used is that if he chooses people for heaven, then that necessarily means that he chooses people for hell. That's one argument for predestination. They call it double predestination. The Bible does not teach that and I'm going to show that through the scriptures. We'll deal with these issues. God has decided to make an example of Israel, but also he has decided to choose Israel, to select Israel as a nation. The only nation on the planet in the history of mankind that God has had that sort of favor that I'm going to do something for you for your benefit. Do I have this pulled up? I think I have everything on my New Testament's passages. All my New Testament passages pulled up. So let me do this. Let me go to... Let me put this passage. If I can spell it right. Deuteronomy 7. And the Bible tells us why he chose him or the reason why he did not choose him. So that they couldn't even boast themselves. He says, speaking of Israel, he says, For you are a people, holy means they were set aside, consecrated by the Lord, holy to the Lord, your God. Now they are holy, not because of what they've done, because he did so. He says the Lord God has... Uh oh, there's a bad word, bakar. Bakar is the Hebrew word that means to choose. And this word bakar, it's a perfect tense. So it was done in the past. They didn't have anything to do it on their own. He did so. And notice the wording. It's not that there were any conditions tied to it. We cannot say that God chose Israel because of anything that he saw that they were going to do. Now think about this for a second. God didn't choose Israel because he saw anything good that they were going to do. He didn't choose him because they were special. As a matter of fact, it goes on to say, The Lord, your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. Look what he says. Now it was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on and chose you. For you were the fewest of all peoples. But look what he says. It is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed for you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king. Now, why did he choose you? Well, not that you've done anything special. As a matter of fact, he's not choosing them because they're special or they will do anything. As a matter of fact, we know what they're going to do. They're going to still sin. They're going to turn their back on him, but he's saying, I have chosen you. And I'm going to carry forth my promise. Now he makes his promises initially with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Well, why? Why does he and forget Isaac and Jacob is really starting with Abraham? Why did he make this promise with Abraham? Why did he choose Abraham? Was Abraham doing something special? No, he was not. No, he was not. And so as a matter of fact, his faith is accredited righteousness. But we see that Abraham's faith kind of waned as well. And so God, why are you bestowing this favor upon Abraham? We're not giving all the details. So I want you all to know this upfront. Sometimes you'll hear someone say that God, they'll call this decision that they disagree with. They'll call it an arbitrary decision. Well, God doesn't do anything arbitrarily. But he also doesn't share with you why he does everything. And so if he does something and doesn't tell you, then fine. He's God. Doesn't have to. Can someone tell me why we have one moon and not two moons? He didn't tell us. He just did. Why we're the third planet, not the first planet from the sun? He didn't tell us. He doesn't tell us a whole lot about everything. But because he's God, and we won't say there's arbitrary. I'm pretty sure there's a reason. But he didn't have to tell us. Just like how I was growing up. I said, daddy or mama, why this or that? Assuming I didn't get in trouble for asking them. They might say, because I said so. Now they had a reason. Just like now I do things for the benefit of my daughter. And I may not tell her. And she may ask, just don't worry about it, sweetheart. We don't know. My daughter doesn't always ask, hey, where did the money come from for this food or for the lights? Those things are taken for granted. I got to pay this light. I got to pay this water bill. I got to pay this. They can do all these things. And so it's taken for granted. And so we do the same thing sometimes. I might explain to you what I'm doing as we are. And God is not doing the same thing that just cost. Jesus even kind of alluded to it. I've told you earthly things and you don't understand. How then shall I tell you heavenly things? Well, this is one of those heavenly things that we probably wouldn't understand. We might object to it. And we see the argument brought up in Romans where Paul is posing a question that folks would object to. And guess what? People still object to in the same way, the same regard that Paul brings up. So that being stated, let me go ahead and, you know, I'll go ahead and leave this up as an Old Testament passage. Because I may come back to the Old Testament. As a matter of fact, I'm definitely coming back to the Old Testament. So let me just mark this as Old Testament, that way I'll know to go back to it. I don't have to put it back up. So those are some of the objections. Now a person in hell, which would be all of us, cannot object because I believe that mankind has the ability to choose. But I believe that mankind will not. So now that's where this issue of predestination, this issue of regeneration comes in. Nobody is going to choose after him. There's nobody righteous enough to even make the decision. And so what I want to talk about is what John three and Titus brings up. And then also what Paul brings up in Romans eight and we'll cover a couple of the spots as well. But the question is this, in light of how bad we are, what does God do in salvation? What is what is God's role? Some people say God's role is just simply to place the opportunity out there to provide. There's a group of people out there that call themselves provision. Some of you may have heard of this person named Layton Flowers. He is I guess he I guess I guess he started the whole provisions movement. I'm not sure. But without knowing all the details and I don't want to kind of describe it and then mess up and then someone say, hey, you don't even know anything about provisionism. But does God just provide a means and leave it at that? Well, what if he provides the means and still everyone and everyone who he provides the means of salvation and everyone still rejects it? Because I think that's what he did. I think God does provide the means for salvation and everyone still rejects it. Now what? We're still back in square one. We still have the same problem where there was under the old covenant where there's after the cross. It's the same problem. No one seeks after God. That's the issue. Even if he provides the means, you guys with me now. So what does God do? This is where the initiation comes from. So let's go to what I want to go first. I want to start off in Romans 8. Let's go to Romans 8 and let's deal with this issue of predestination. And we're going to probably look at matter of fact, let me just go ahead and give you guys a warning. We are going to look at some Greek, right? Clutch the pearls, hide the children, women too. We're going to cover some Greek. All right. So that being stated, Romans 8, 28, we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good. For those who are called according to his purpose. Now the question is this, how does all things work together for good? Well, that's God does that, right? Obviously, God is the one that's causing these things to work, which means, again, going back to my point, that God has a will too. God is the only being, the only person that has free will, ultimate free will, whose will is not dependent upon anything. His will is not encumbered or influenced by anybody else's will or anything else. Ours is. What we want to do might depend upon the temperature today. We know that. If it's 95 degrees out, you're not putting on a coat. If it's 10 degrees out, you're not going out in shorts, if you got any sense. So other things outside of you can cause you to move differently, but not God. Not God. And so that being stated, thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate that, my friend. So God makes a move. Now let's look at what he says. Let's go back to it. Let's go to verse, I'm sorry. The end of that, it says, according to his purpose. Now, so God works things together. God is the one who works things together according to his purpose. What is all of God's purpose? Has he explained all of his purpose? I don't think so. But we know the basis for what he does. It's according to his purpose. Okay, let's go back to it. Verse 29, for those, and here's the first word that we're going to have a problem with, for those whom he foreknew. This word, pro-egno, people are going to say that the definition of this word is that he, those who he knew about ahead of time. It does not mean the word foreknew does not mean those who he predestined ahead of time. No, because it would be odd to say that those whom he predestined, he also predestined. This is not the same as predestining a person. Okay, but it's close. It's close. What this word pro-egno means, and it is used also guys, it's also used in Romans chapter 11 verse two. Paul uses this word again, and so we'll also look at that in just a second. What this word pro-egno is to foreknow, what does that mean? Does it mean that God looked in time and saw that you would do the right thing? He looked in time and saw that you would actually choose him. He looked in time and saw that you would place faith in God, either in the Old Testament or under the Old Covenant or Abraham before the Covenant that you would place faith in him. Do you think in the head of time that you would trust what Christ did on the cross? Is that what foreknowing means, foreknowing means? No, that's not what foreknowing means. Foreknowing means to kind of gather to set aside. Now, what do you gather and set aside? I'm choosing up these right here to do what? It doesn't say. Matter of fact, let's go ahead and go back to the computer screen. Let's pull up my Hong Kong book of kung fu. Let's click on the word for foreknew. Let's see what we get. Let's go to BDAG. Because BDAG is kind of the Greek standard for looking up languages and a lot of languages. The definition of words, how they're used, what the BDAG will do is it'll also bring into, because let's say there are some words in the Greek New Testament that maybe found once or twice and so we don't get a full understanding. But maybe we see a lot of bills of sales and deeds, marriage invitations and things like that, wedding invitations, birthday, whatever. We see these different writings that are outside the Bible that help us in terms of theology, but just to know that's what this word means. Y'all do understand that in order for linguists, for grammarians, they have to look at writings outside of the Bible to make sure that this word, this Greek word or this Hebrew word or this Aramaic word, means what we think it means. Because wouldn't it be something if the Bible is the only time that this word in the history of the world meant that thing that we're saying it means? No, that would be wrong. So if the word up in the Bible meant down, if we use that word to mean down, but everywhere else in the Greek world, it meant up, well then we would look bad. And so words have meanings, they don't just get their meanings. Words don't just gather their meanings because of the Bible. They're used because that's how people communicated with those words. And so we need to understand those words. And so the B-dag at times will go and also find words outside of the Bible to say, let's make sure that this really means that now. But that's the reason why the B-dag is kind of the superior standard that people turn to. Over, let's move over there. That book over right there to the corner is kind of a maroonish color with a little blue portion. That's the B-dag. I have it on here which make, which notifies that that's a heavy book. So, but anyway, let me go ahead and pull this up back on the screen and let's open up the B-dag. And let's, I want to make this bigger so you guys can see. All right. Did I make that too big? You know what? Let me close this up. Wait, let's close that and make it easier. Okay, let's do that. I don't know if you guys can see that or not. Now, the issue is, it means to know beforehand or in advance to have foreknowledge. Now, this word right here, I don't want you to focus too much on it because, but this kind of lets us know how the word is used if it's used in conjunction with the T. Or to choose beforehand, tena, which means someone. Now, if you notice the example that's used here for tena, let me make this bigger in the B-dag. The example that's used here for this definition is what? Romans 829. And what does this mean? Romans 829, this understanding, it means to choose beforehand. Are you with me? To choose beforehand, I would have a problem with, somebody said, would I debate, would I debate soteriology one-on-one? I don't have a problem debating anybody. I don't have a, now somebody asked me, Cory, I'd like to challenge you to a formal debate. And I said, that's fine. You realize I'm not formal. That's why I don't do formal debates, because I ain't nothing about me formal. Because I might hold myself at that clock. That's the issue. No, we can have a conversation. I'm not, I am not, you've got five minutes to make your point, and then he asks two minutes to make a rebuttal, and then, what is, no, that's not how we have a conversation. No, by the way, nobody is edified or changed because of that. The people on this side come in, they stay on that side, the folks on this side come in, they stay on that side. I want to have a conversation because I want you to be able to break down my arguments, and I'll do the same, but no, I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a, no, listen, I would love, there's two people I would love to have on the channel, William Mounts, Bill Mounts. We're going to see him in just a second. Interesting enough, that's why I put it up because you brought it up, but William, I would love to have him on the channel, as well as Daniel Wallace, two titans of Greek grammar. And both are extremely influential on these different translation committees. Bill Mounts has been on the ESV, the NIV. Don't talk to him about how bad the NIV is because the NIV is not the same, it's not meant to be the same as the King James Version, New King James Version ESV. It's a thought for thought versus the other Bibles being a word for word, and then you've got someone like Daniel Wallace. I would love to have any of them on here, but since I can't, I'm just relegated to quoting them or playing clips of them explaining something as well. So Christian says election is corporate. We'll see, we're going to see if election is corporate. And what he means by that, guys, is that God elected not us individually to be saved, but this is the vehicle by which we would be saved. This is, in other words, Christ, salvation through Christ, faith in Him. That was the vehicle to be elected in. We're going to see if that holds water. This is why I think that many people who have these issues do not debate Greek grammarians, because the Greek breaks down those arguments pretty quickly. And I'm not a Greek grammarian at all, but I see this. But anyway, so this word here, to foreknow, means to be chosen beforehand, to choose beforehand, to choose beforehand. Now, it does not state what they were chosen for. It just says they were chosen beforehand. We're going to find out what they were chosen beforehand for, but it's of the 15 billion people. Let me choose this number. I don't know. Let me choose X number. Now, what is he choosing X number for? Let's go back to the screen and we'll see why he chose X number. He chose them whom he chose, for chose. He also predestined. Okay. Now we get to this word. By the way, we see this word. I meant to say this earlier. Let's go back to this word. Do I have it up already? Let me pull this word up also or this passes up also. Romans, where'd I go? Oh my, oh wow. You all won't believe what I just did. Okay. Yeah, I just did it. For some reason, for some reason, I just deleted the passage that I was just in. So let me pull it back up. I hit the wrong button. So let me pull that up. I'm moving too fast. What was that? Romans, 829. All right. One, two, three, four. Make that a little bit bigger. And then also, let me add the Greek to it as well. Make that bigger so you guys can see it. One, two, three, four. Now, what I want to do is I want to go to where this word for for knowledge is used. I want to go to chapter 11 verse two, where this word is also used. And you'll see that it's also kind of in the same context, the same thing. Now, remember, in this case, Paul is talking about what? In Romans, we cover this before it in Romans 9, 10, 11. Paul is talking about the salvation of the nation of Israel. Because Paul is concerned. He said, I wish I could be a curse for my family, my kinsmen of the flesh, Israelites, the Jews. And has God rejected them? No. God has not rejected Israel. God has not forgotten his promises. He says, I asked him, has God rejected his people by no means, for I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his, his people whom he foreknew. There's that word again. Proegno. Now, if you think that foreknew means that he read that that if foreknew or for knowledge means he knows what they are going to do. And there, there is the basis. If you think that that falls apart. Reading Romans 11 to. Okay. Now, if I read Romans 11 to speaking of Israel, God has God rejected Israel, his people whom he foreknew and foreknew means what they were going to do. Well, it couldn't mean that because what they're going to do could not be the basis by which they were chosen. Are you with me? Because they have no legitimate basis to say this is why you ought to keep chooses. This is why we ought to be your people because Israel is disobedient. Israel is horrible. Israel is wayward rebellious. And so if, if foreknowledge means to know what they're going to do ahead of time, verse two of chapter 11 nullifies that. It could not be because that could not be what it means. Again, the word according to the B dag and according to most Ramarians that I've seen, I would say all, but I haven't seen one that differs. But I'm pretty sure there are out there. But as not rejected to his people whom he foreknew whom he has chosen, we've already covered the password says that they have that they were chosen. Why did Israel? Why did God choose Israel? Not because he knew they were going to do good. Do right. That part is clear. We know they don't choose right. They don't do right. As a matter of fact, even in this point, we see that Paul states that they have even been giving given a spirit of stupor. His eyes not being able to see ears not being able to hear. And they are just as wayward to look at Israel right now. So it's not their election is not based on their choosing is not based on foreknowledge. Okay. I'm sorry. Not foreknowledge what they're going to do their to their salvation comes as a result of as a result of God having already just sovereignly selected that nation. Okay. Now. Now the issue. Hold on. Let me just answer this question here. He says, so the context is Israel, but you think it's individual election. No, this is not talking about an individual election. Now you just follow me Christian. The reason for this, why I'm bringing this up is because someone's going to say that the word foreknowledge that's used in chapter eight means that that means he knew ahead of time what they were going to do. And I'm saying it's not Paul uses exact same thing in the exact same terms for the exact same reason. Choosing someone for something. They were chosen. We know they were chosen and the basis for them being chosen had nothing to do with what what they did with them being righteous with with them and nothing to do with them or with God knowing they were going to actually follow him that they were going to bait. They were going to seek him. That's my point using it. Yeah, he's speaking collectively in this regard. But we know he's not speaking collectively in Romans eight. Let's go back to it as a matter of fact. Let's go back to Romans eight because the issue on the floor is what were they chosen for? We know clearly that the foreknowledge is them just being chosen. Now chosen for what? Now we know the those is not corporate. We know that the those is not corporate. The word for who's is not used corporately. Brother Christian James. It's not used corporately. It is of a collection of individuals. So these individuals whom he foreknew. So he's speaking of how whatever however great the number is. If it's five that he foreknew five billion five million five million. We don't know what the number is, but X number those whom he foreknew. What do you do to them? Here it is. He also predestined them and to predestined means to decide ahead of time. Now what I want to do is because someone asked a question about about William mounts. Well, so what I want to do is I want to go ahead and put him on the screen and play a bit of a clip. I'm not exactly sure where this and I didn't even set it up right. But I want to play a little bit of clip of him, him speaking and actually at a church preaching. Speaking about this, I want to play that put it on the screen. There it is. And I want to play, let me see if I can find the right spot. You all bear with me here, please. If you know your Greek, you'll know that verse 28 doesn't end in a period and neither does verse 29. It's a great big long sentence in Greek. I wish we could have kept it as one sentence because verses 28 and 29 are defining what good is. And excuse me for using my phone, but I can't flip pages in a paper. Move it a little faster. We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who have been called according to his purpose for. He predetermined. God knew Bill mounts. He knew you. And before time even existed, he predestined. He predetermined that you and I would be conformed to the image of his son. In this verse, predestination is guaranteeing the benefits of being in God's family of being. Now I want to say this because I listen, I want you just to follow along with me, Christian. Listen, I see you're excited and so forth. But if for knowledge doesn't mean that he I didn't say he for ordained. All I say the for knowledge is we pulled up the lexicon. We pulled up the BDAC for knowledge simply means to choose. That's what it means. Ordained means that you ordained to be something that part we hadn't gotten to yet. He chose them. Then what did he choose him to do? That's the predestined. So he chose them that he would predestine them to be something. Those are two separate words. Okay. And so I think you what happens is this and I want you guys. I want you guys to hear me on this because you guys get so passionate about things in that that you refuse to let yourself eat the possibility of being wrong. I fought this too. I fought this too. There's no way I don't believe in this predestining stuff. No, I got free will. You're right. Your free will always choose what it's always done with your sin. Think about it. You got the Holy Spirit and you still mess up. So what were you like before? Yeah, those Holy Spirit. So and I don't want you to look at the big picture. I want I want you to step back and look at things step by step. Look at things on the ground where God is doing, where God is taking us, why he's doing what he's doing. See, we're at the end. We're at the end and we want to assume what God has done the reasons why. But if we just step back and look at things in context. Now I'm one of these guys that will always say to the Calvinists, you should not. You don't really want to go to Romans 9, 10 and 11 to make your to make your point of election because it's not really the whole point of it. But here in 829, he's speaking of this issue of predestined that he does predetermined people. And that's the point that that Dr. Mouss, Bill Mouss is making. And so let's go back to this word here. This word for predestined pro-rescent, which is that he predetermined beforehand. That's literally what the word means. The word means to determine something beforehand. Who did he predetermine anything to be the people who he chose, the folks that he gathered, the fore known people. We cannot change the definition of the word for known. That's what it means. And in the Greek and in the grammatical stance, referring to the 10 of these, someone, these people, the whom, the whom, the individuals. Because it's individuals, we know that this because that's how it's lined up. It'd be hard to find a lexicon that might differ. And certainly even looking at the BDAC. But the point is this. Those whom he foreknew, these individuals that he, and it's not collectively, it's not corporately, it's not all the believers who he foreknew. No, he says these individuals, whoever they are, if it's five, five billion, five million that matter, those people he actually chose. No one's saying that Free Wood doesn't exist. You call what you want to call. And your will is going to always lead down one track because God said so. Now, the people that he foreknew, what did he do with them? It says clearly that he predestined those people. He predestined them to what? He predetermined them to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the first one. And he says why he did so. So if someone were to say, well, he did so arbitrarily, didn't give us a reason. Well, he does so so that Jesus would be the first born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined. And by the way, if you notice, and I didn't finish playing, matter of fact, let me finish playing Bill Mouse. So you all can hear what he is saying. Put it on the screen. He's going to talk about the use of the of the. His children and the greatest benefit that God predetermines you and I will possess is that you and I get to look like Jesus. That's what he determined before. And you see, God could have determined before time to say, no, I'm going to save people. I'm going to forgive their sins and then whatever, see it in heaven. You know, good luck on the rest of your life. He could have done that, but that wasn't his predetermined plan. His predetermined plan was that you and I would receive benefits as members of his family. And the greatest of those benefits is that we would be adopted into his family. That he'll know why in a second. I love the concept of adoption so much. He determined that we would receive the benefits of children. And then in time, he called us to himself. We didn't wander into God's family somehow. Jesus says, John 644 that no one comes to the father unless the father draws him. You and I were drawn to Jesus and that's the calling. And then we respond in faith and those he called, he justified. He declared you and me not guilty of our sins. Now I want to ask a question though. This is just kind of a little off topic, but on topic. Does anybody have any idea as to why he would come to this conclusion? Do you think that he grew up in a household that was predisposed to this view of election? Or do you think that the Greek takes him there? I think the Greek takes him there. The reason why I say that is because the vast majority of Greek scholars end up over here. Now, do all probably not, but does the vast majority of Greek scholars, at least those that I've seen here in America, they end up here? Why? Because that's just where the language takes them. It'd be one thing to say, well, the Greek says this, but I'm going over here. Because what happened is someone else say, wait a second, according to what you've taught, according to the understanding of the grammar, that's not what it's saying. And which is the reason why you always want to let your work be shown so people can see how you got to the conclusion you got to. And so this side note. And then in the future, he is going to glorify us. He is going to make us into who he always intended us to be. And that is a glorious thing. In fact, our glorification is so certain that the Greek uses the past tense verb, Eris, so that it can emphasize the certainty of our future glorification. So I want you to think about that for a second now. And what he's pulling up here is let's put it on the screen. Those whom he predestined to be conformed with the image of his son or that he might be the first born among among many brothers and those whom he predestined, the Eris tense is what he's talking about. He also called that's also in that's also in the Eris tense. And then those whom he called, he also justified that's also in the Eris tense and whom he justified. He also glorified. I'm sorry. Also glorified. That's also there. One of the things that he that there were in their past tense, their past tense. No, Elizabeth. Pay attention sweetheart. I've said it before. I'm not a Calvinist. Calvinists aren't the only ones that believe in election. We're literally just walking down the scriptures. And the reason why I want to keep addressing is because I think you guys walk into a room looking for a fight to happen when we're just going over the text. Now, if I work a Calvinist, okay, fine, but that's not that's not an argument. It's not a worthwhile argument. Hey, these guys are Calvinists. I'm not a Calvinist. In fact, I've already stated initially where I disagree with Calvinists. Calvinists believe that we're so totally depraved that we have an inability to choose. I don't believe that. I don't. So the first tee off the off off the bat, I disagree with Calvinism that the first tee of tulip. Well, of course, that would make you a four point Calvinist. Okay. Until I start taking the other the other part. So, oh, I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry, Elizabeth. No, he's I don't know if he's Calvinist or not. He is. I don't know. I know Daniel Wallace is is he's dispensational. I know Bach is dispensational. He's not a Calvinist and they all come to the same, the same thing. And so we're all we're doing is good. Now, the reason why this guy that's on screen, his name is William mounts. Where's the book? If you look over in the corner there, I've got this. Oh, no, I don't. I got the workbook though. I've got the other book somewhere else over there. I've got this book called Greek. I mean, the basis of the basics of Greek grammar of the basics, the basics of biblical Greek. That's what it is. He is one of the foremost authorities on teaching Greek. If you want to learn Greek, the one that I would tell you to get is the base, the basics of biblical Greek. Biblical Greek is or the basis of is just walking through the basics of it. Now he can go deeper and he's got all these other different writings as well. If you want to learn Greek by that book, the basics of biblical Greek. But that's why I'm highlighting him. As a matter of fact, I'm going to show something that I've covered before. I've covered this. I've covered this before on Ephesians two. And the grammar is clear. No, no, no, what what what Bill Mount says isn't right. You now you did if you disagree, prove it. And that's the issue. This is why this is why I say the folks that disagree with this tend not to go to the Greek. Don't find yourself in the place of the hyper charismatic or the false teachers out there who do not want to deal with the text. If I pull up the if I pull up the Greek and you disagree with the Greek, then tell us why. No, listen again, and we'll take our time to this Christian and I'm going to leave you leave you long for a second. So I'm going to continue. But if you disagree with his Greek, tell us why. Don't say that because now what you're doing is you're simply disagreeing because I don't like what he said. Oh, he's a he's he's a Greek scholar. I don't like Greek scholars now. I don't like his mustache. I don't like his glasses. I don't like his hair color. Disagree with the text. And if in this case, disagree with the Greek. So my question is, is this so that we can go and continue? Let me ask you one question, Christian. May ask you question, Christian. Do you know Greek? I'm not I'm not asked to put you down. It's not it's not a negative if you don't know what I'm asking, but I want to know. Do you know Greek? So let let let me know if you know Greek. Now, the reason the reason I'm sorry. Listen, I've got 900. Yeah, I'm going to make an announcement on my emails in a few days too. I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm so wrong for that. But the reason why I said question is because if I'm trying to make a point, I'm trying to put my point in many different areas. But if I say this is what the Greeks says and I bring up different Greek scholars who also agree. If you if a person disagrees, not just you because this happened many times on this channel, someone disagrees. Well, based on what do you disagree? Do you do you disagree? That's not the rule. He's interpreting the the rules. No. And listen, I'm not just I'm not just using Greek tools. If you want to hear me reading Greek, then fine. You wouldn't understand the rest of the broadcast. So I'm not a Greek scholar, but I can't. I can work my way through the text. And so yeah, OK, I'm going to leave you alone for it first. So we can go ahead and move on. So back to the text. So those we foreknew he predestined the word for the the meaning for this has one meaning, guys. It's not like there's 5000 different meanings to predetermined to select ahead of time to determine ahead of time. Without regard, guys, this is without regard to what you're doing. You don't predetermine or predestine someone because they did what you're going to predestine to do. In other words, you don't predestine someone to become safe. If you see they're going to be safe, then then you'd be lying because now you're taking credit for what they did. And so what God does he we already cover the fact that he says that no one is going to seek after him. No one is going to search for him. No one is right enough to even want to. And so all 15 billion people are going to make the same decision. Now they may get to the same. They may get to that decision in different ways. They may him and haul someone. Some make the decision. I ain't choosing God for nothing immediately. Some folks kind of just dance around. I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it and never do the road to hell is paid with good attention. That kind of thing. Some folks will even not make the decision thing. They have made the decision. Yeah, I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian, but not right now. So again, we all come to the end of at the same place. Different routes, which is hell that being stated. So what is what is a God to do? And so God has determined after he knows we're not going to choose him because he stated so. And so he predestines us to be conformed to his image. Now what predestination is not because someone's going to say, well, in this part of the problem that some folks think that if you're predestined, then he's choosing people, predestining people to heaven. Then that must mean that he's predestining people to hell. He is not. Remember, how do we start off? How do we start off? We start off in the negative side. We start off on our way to hell. We start off as lost people. We start off as people who love sin. Why? Because our earliest mama and daddy Adam and Eve gave it to us. We got it. Honestly, we're just riding people. Honestly, we inherited it. We are born of a of a corruptible seed and our nature is our nature is to just sin, sin like we want to see. We are naturally disobedient. According to Romans 10 21, we're all disobedient. According to, I'm sorry, that Israel is disobedient. Israel is disobedient. It's the same Israel that he chose them ahead of time. All of us, according to Isaiah, we all are disobedient. Now, the people that go to hell, though, this is why I do not believe in, like a lot of Calvinists may believe in, in double predestinations because this passage here. Second Peter 3 9. The Bible says the Lord is not slow or slack. King James Version is not slow or slack to fulfill his promises as some count slowness. But is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Now this word right here for wishing. Someone will say, wait a second. If God is not wishing that anyone would perish, why then do people perish? If God makes makes it or if God is saying that I don't want anyone to perish. It's not my will that anyone should perish. Then why then do they perish? Because that's not the word that's used there. The word that's used there for will would be phthalo. But the word here is not phthalo or any derivative of it. The word here is derived from the word bulimai. Or in this case, the word is bulimenos, which is from the word bulimai. This word, you can call it wishing or willing. But what it's saying is, I'm not willing or wishing upon them. I'm not determining them. I'm not placing them in hell. So God has not desired. It's not that God has desired. It's not that God has not placed or determined or willed them or wished for them to go to hell. So in other words, anyone that goes here because of this word that's used here, bulimenos from bulimai, means that he is not the reason why they're there. They're not predestined to go to hell. The only predestination that takes place is those that are favorite predestined to heaven, to salvation, to be conformed to the image of his son. There's no one that's been predestined to go to hell. Why? He doesn't have to. You're on your way to hell anyway. Okay? That part wouldn't make any sense. Okay? Now, there's a passage that people bring up often. Let me go ahead and cover it before I go to the whole issue of the regeneration part. And I'll try not to say if I can wrap it up even better. But this issue of Ephesians 5, I mean Ephesians 5, Ephesians 2-8. This issue of salvation and the faith regarding, we're told that it's a gift. The issue is, is even the faith that we have, that we've been given, is that a gift? You all can go and check this out. I think it's a pretty good study. He actually goes a little further in depth with it than we're going to do right here. But I'll let him say what he's going to say and then we'll come back to it. Again, this is Bill Mounts, but you can find this with just about any Greek scholar, if they have any books to cover this portion, it's still the same. It's a rule. He's going to cover a Greek rule and he does it succinctly. And he also uses the same software, Cordes Bible software. So I think that's a plus. Let me just play what he's going to say over Ephesians 2-8. But first, let me just read the passage first. For by grace you have been saved through faith. For by faith you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing. It is the gift of God. So the question is going to be, what's the gift of God? Someone might say faith is the gift. Someone might say salvation is the gift. Not the faith. Someone might say that it is both. Here is the actual answer. So Paul writes for by grace, instrumental date of faith. You are saved, paraphrastic perfect, through faith. Semicolon. And this not of yourselves, of God, the gift, not out of works. In order that no one can boast. Just a quick grammatical note on this paraphrastic. You have the present of a me and a perfect participle. That makes it a paraphrastic perfect. Originally paraphrastics were created to emphasize the ongoing aspect of something. But that's been basically lost by the time of the Koinei. So this is translated as a simple perfect. You have been saved. The other interesting thing about the Greek is the tuta. Which is neuter. And there's no neuter for it to go back to. You might think that this not of yourselves and refer to being saved or God's expression of grace, which is feminine. This is masculine. Faith is feminine. So why a neuter tuta? Well the basic rule in Greek is that when you want to refer back, not to a specific word, but to a more general concept, you put the pronoun in the neuter. And so this means that tuta refers to this entire process of gracious salvation by faith. That whole thing is not of us. We don't do that. It's God's gift. So now, we bring that up because the issue that we have, again, remember the initial issue that I had was that what if all 15 billion don't decide to choose him? Well he's already stated that none of us will choose him. And so what is a God to do? God has to have it happen some way to where if faith is the process by which we come to him, by which we're saved, but we're not going to choose him, but you just stated that you have predestined us to be conformed to the image. Well that didn't happen without faith. Well where does the faith come from? Well as he stated, let's put it back on the screen. This whole issue of faith and salvation, the entirety of that phrase is why he phrases it or covers it in the neuter. For by grace he says this is, this tuta, this word right here, the reason why this is in the neuter when there's nothing else ahead of it, there's, everything else is either in the feminine or maybe in the masculine. Well the rule is that if I use the neuter to cover that phrase, then that then the neuter means the entire phrase is what he's talking about. And so this is the gift. So let's go back to the Greek. Kai tuta uke ex humon. So this Kai tuta and this uke ex this is out of not of, I'm sorry, not of you, humon, the plural you, fea to doron which is of God a gift. So this gift, this, the reason why we say all of this is the gift is because this tuta, tuta, the neuter, the rule makes it so. And that's what kind of what Dr. Mounce was explaining. You can find this rule, the stated as well, probably even more if you want to be more confused. Daniel Wallace is a Greek grammar beyond the basic. We'll cover this other Greek grammars will also cover this as well. So the point is how we get to him choosing us or protesting us to us actually being there, the mechanism is going to be faith because faith is going to be issues going to be brought up. The reason I bring it up is because when you talk to someone who disagrees with this, they're going to bring up this issue of faith. If we're saved by faith. I said earlier that I wanted to help a Calvinist out. Again, I'm not a Calvinist, but I see there's an error that one particular Calvinist makes incidentally when he's having a debate with someone who's vehemently against Calvinism. Matter of fact, his entire channel is against Calvinism. And the point is that this Calvinist person has kind of put himself in a corner and he even by his own admittance says he jumped by the question that was asked. I'm going to cover that because it makes it goes with what I'm saying. There's a reason why I'm joining this effusions with Romans and also with, we'll go to John in just a second as well. But the point is you're not going to choose. You're not going to place faith in faith is the mechanism by which we're saved. And so if all I got to do is have faith, but I'm not going to have faith. Well, how do I get the faith? Well, the faith, even that, that I had that I placed in Christ, that was given to me. That's a gift according to the grammar. Now, you can disagree. I'm asking you that if you disagree with the assessment of Ephesians 2-8, please bring some sort of grammatical insight, some sort of Greek insight. If you don't have it, that's fine. You are more than welcome to go and find someone else, either on YouTube or Google, wherever else, and say, hey, Corey, I did a study. This person disagrees here, here, and here's why. No problem, no problem. I didn't write the Greek, and so I did not interpret the Greek. I'm just simply going over the rules and I'm citing what he cited. And so this issue of faith also being a gift, not just salvation, that little grammatical rule gives us that reason. So I'm saying you are free to challenge me. I don't have a problem with that. The issue is, though, you're challenging me before the point is made. You're challenging me what you should not do, guys. I don't care what side of the argument you're on. Even if someone, let's say, we're not talking about this, but it's something that's clearly heresy. Challenge the point before... What happens is, I have a conclusion before I walk into the room and so anything that goes against my conclusion is automatically wrong, and so therefore I will not hear what you're saying. Because if you're going to challenge the point, which is fine, I have no problem with anyone challenging the point, but challenge the points that I'm making. And I'm trying to stick to this Greek text, so challenge it in that regard, if you would. So show me where the Greek is off. That's all. Now, so that's what predestination is and what it's not. It's not I'm predestining you to heaven and then predestining this person to hell. That's not what it is. Some people have a problem with that. That's just to address the people who have a problem with that. That these people are... That's unfair, God. That's immoral of you, God. That's unjust of you to do so. Now, some say it'll be unjust of God if they do so based on no reason that they could prevent it, meaning that they have no ability to choose you, which is where I disagree with the accountants. The accountants would say, the five-point accountants would say they don't have even the ability to choose God and God judges them based on that. I can see their point on that. I'm saying we do have an ability to choose God and we still won't. And so we're judged properly if we go to hell. That's the difference. And so therefore, at least, there's one point for the tool that I've departed from. Now, this issue of what regeneration is. Regeneration is, unless we're going to find this in two places, in John 3. As a matter of fact, it's not just in John 3, but in a certain John 3, a certain John 3. This is a conversation that Nicodemus has. Nicodemus has had this conversation with none other than Jesus. And so let's go to it. John 3, one says, this man Nicodemus came to Jesus by night and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher to come from God for no one can do these signs unless God is with them. Jesus says, truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. All right. This is where we're going to camp on. Apecophaeasus kaepin, that is an answered Jesus. Kaepin said out to him, amen, amen, lego, soe. Jesus said, truly, truly I say to you, Ion metis ganethe anothin. This word right here, unless one, unless one. And what he does is he puts it in a chronology. Ion metis ganethe anothin, which means unless you are chronologically, unless someone is born from above, because the word that's used here, Ion metis ganethe anothin has two meanings, either born again a second time, or born from above. Well, it can't be a second time because Jesus answers Nicodemus' misunderstanding. Jesus says, Nicodemus, like, can you be born a second time? Jesus said, no, it's not what I'm talking about. And so the only other thing can be that you're born from above. Now, you have to be born from, and I have not seen anyone argue this point correctly to state that being born from above does not precede seeing the King of Heaven. That has to happen first. Well, how is a person born again? That's the question on the floor. Now, born again does not mean salvation. The King of Heaven, or the King of God, that is salvation. Are you with me? Before you get the Kingdom of God, which is salvation, someone will say, well, no, no, no, no, no, no, you have to die, and then that's when you get to know, because the Bible tells us clearly that we are saved on Earth even before we get to Heaven. So there's a point to where we have it, and we've got even a deposit guarantee reserved until we actually reach and realize this Heaven that we're going to be in. But to be part of the Kingdom of God, the first thing that has to happen is you first must be born again. Now, the question's going to be for the people that don't think that regeneration precedes faith, what are we talking about then? We're talking about the heart being regenerated. The heart is born from above. We know we're talking about the heart being born from above, because Jesus gets on Nicodemus for not knowing this. This has been spoken of in the Old Testament. We always refer from this passage back to Ezekiel 36 where God says, matter of fact, let's pull this up, too. Let's go to where God is speaking of what He is going to do. God initiates this. Initiates this. Someone says regeneration is after faith. Well, let's see if that's what God says. Ezekiel 36. He's speaking of this problem with Israel. It's the same with us, he's speaking about Israel, and he says, now I will sprinkle, now, because his problem is what Israel is disobedient. Go from all of Ezekiel up to this point, that's been their issue. Israel is a disobedient, wayward, rebellious bunch of people. And so he says in verse 24, I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you back to your own land. Then he says, I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses and from all your idols. I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new spirit I will put within you. So clearly we see who the active party is. That's God, God is an I will do this. I will put a new spirit, I'm sorry, I will put my spirit or a spirit, the spirit into your heart. I will put within you and I will remove the heart of stone and give you flesh, from your heart of flesh and give you a heart of flesh, I'm sorry. And I will put my spirit within you and when I put my spirit within you, what will he do? I will cause you to walk in my statues and be careful to obey my rules. So we see God being the initiator of this. Before you can walk in his commandments, before you can place your faith in him, the spirit will be put in you first according to Ezekiel 36, according to John 3. Before you have the kingdom of God, before you can see, before you can inherit it, you first must be born again. Now, does born again mean that you are saved at that moment? No, being born again does not mean that you are saved. Does it mean you're going to be saved? I think it means you are going to be saved because what happens is now you are going to get a new disposition in your heart. Your heart is going to change whereas previously, unlike Israel or like us, you had this stony heart, this rebellious heart, and he puts his wrinkle cleansed water over your heart and changes the disposition of your heart. You no longer have this wicked heart that the Bible has talked about as having. You are no longer wayward in your heart going way like sheep. Now, ah, this makes sense. Now you see clearly to place faith in Christ. The argument that, for example, Layton Flowers had an argument or debate with the gentlemen. I spoke about this guy, Joe Webin, on this issue of Colossians 221. Let's go there real quick. I want to cover this. This is me helping the Calvinists out. In 221, the argument was, where is it at? In 221, the argument was, a matter of fact, let's put it up here. Do not, is this the right one? Ah, I'm in the wrong one. Or is it 212? I'm sorry, I think it's 212. I don't know why I put 221 up there. Okay, here it is. Having been buried with him in baptism in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God who raised him from the dead. Well, from the provisions perspective was that this person being raised in faith goes against, and I think in this case, the provisionist, Layton Flowers was correct and the Calvinist, Joe Webin, was incorrect because Joe Webin was assuming and stating that the person who was born again is saved when he's born again. Being born again does not mean that you are a Christian at that moment. All it means that your heart has been changed. Your heart has been regenerated. We'll talk about why we say this word regeneration in just a second as it pertains to the heart. We're going to cover that passage in just a second. But it does not mean that once your heart has been born again, once you've been born from above, that you are now saved. No, your heart has been born again. So then now you will or you can make the decision to place your faith in Christ. Being born again is not the same as placing faith in Christ. Being born again allows you to go forward and place your faith in Christ. Which is why God can say that Paul says in Ephesians that it is a gift. What he's done is he created you and given you the ability to place faith in Christ. Are you with me? How do I know so? Let's go to where's this passage at, Titus 3.5. Look what he says in Titus 3.5. He says I don't want to start here. Let's start in verse 4. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God, our Savior appeared, he saved us. Not because of works done by us in righteousness. He did not save you because of what you did in righteousness. Whatever righteous act you did even placing faith in, that's not why he saved you according to this. The reason why, reading, he saved you not by us because of works in righteousness but according to his own mercy by the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit. This word regeneration here, this word is made up of two words. Palin is the Greek word for again and then genomai is born which is where we get this term born again. But you are born, your heart has a new birth. That's what regeneration means. You literally have a new birth in your heart which is what Jesus is talking about. Your heart has a brand new birth date. Who gave your heart the brand new birth date? Who rebirthed your heart? You didn't. How do I know? Let's go back to John 3 and Jesus tells us how we get this new birth in our heart. He says let's drop down to verse 8. He says the wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound but you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who was born of the Spirit. It's not because of anything that you've done. It's by the will of the Spirit. So it is of everyone who was born of the Spirit. Let's put it back on the screen again. He says just like the wind blows where it wishes where the wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound but you don't know where it's coming from or where it's going. You have no control of it but it's the same with everyone who is born of the Spirit. Now I want to put a couple of the passages to talk about someone being born of the Spirit. In John chapter 1 verse 9 moving forward says the true light which gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world and the world was made through him yet the world did not know him. He came to his own and his own people did not receive him. But here he goes but to all who did receive him who believed in his name he gave the right to become children of God. These are people who were born who were born here's a word who were born past tense not of blood they weren't born of blood they weren't born of the will of flesh or of man so they weren't born because of their own desire their own will they weren't born because of their flesh or of blood but they were born of what the will of God but of God. Now we know it's thinking about the will of God and not their will because it literally says so Eqfeu Eganethesen which is out of or because of God they were born they were born because of God. God is the one who does this not you I know it might bother some people I know it might bother these are the folks who whoever was they believes the people that believe they believe because they were born of the spirit they weren't born and what happens is people put a condition on this that the reason why they were born of God is because they placed their faith in Christ that's why I went over Ephesians 2 okay that's because someone's gonna go back and say the reason how the person became born again is because of their own faith you don't have the faith to do so you don't have the ability to do so you don't have the ability to make this choice even according to Ephesians 2.8 even the faith that you have was given to you and I don't mind being wrong I just want you to show me where I'm wrong so someone's gonna have to come back and say well this is the actual way that this Greek rule is used in Ephesians 2.8 and I'll say you know what you're right my mistake I misunderstood that mounts misunderstood that these other Greek grammarians they misunderstood that so because of this these people they were not born their own will now their faith faith in Christ isn't that their will isn't that their will their faith in Christ is that part of their will it is and we're just told that it's not because of their will but because of the will of God let's go also to this part right here to 1 John 2 29 he says if you know that he is righteous you may be sure that everyone who practice righteousness has been born of him and this word right here is the perfect tense why am I highlighting the perfect tense the righteousness their righteousness is out of being born why am I highlighting this word and well because that word is in the perfect tense meaning that this happened it's a completed action in the past perfect is going to refer to completed action having ongoing consequences which is referring obviously it's referring to what God's done otherwise he would have used an heiress tense now so everyone who practice righteous those are the ones who have been born in the past and I'm saying even before they were actually born physically born which I think is the reason why he uses the perfect tense now if you say I'm wrong that's fine that's fine but I get I would like for someone to come back that the reason why I don't think I really don't think anyone should have a problem with this I don't think anyone ought to have a problem with this again regeneration is not salvation predestination is not God predestining someone to hell the act of faith is still there you still place faith in Christ the problem is though God gives you the nudge well God you didn't give this other guy a nudge you didn't you gave you gave Mary a nudge but you didn't give Sheila a nudge you gave Bob a nudge but you didn't give John a nudge well what gives well John and Sheila can't come back and say well that's not fair that well yes it is because as best you guys that believe that you made the choice well then why did you make the choice to do so I think God is crystal clear that you just will not I think God and I agree I agree with that Adam I think regeneration will always result in salvation it will always but I'm just saying that it happens first being you place your faith in Christ and in their salvation I don't think that regeneration is instantaneous salvation now it could be you can get regenerating like I believe I believe the gospel I think you're regenerated and now you see more clearly you have a new disposition where you recognize the failures of your heart the sinfulness of your nature and see what Christ has done so now this time someone comes and gives a gospel it can be a 12 year old come and give you the gospel meanwhile in the past somebody with a doctor degree got up and spoke you didn't receive it you've heard the best singing the best teaching none of that moves you but then your heart was regenerated and then the simple gospel saved you that matter who gave it to you but because it's up to God God is the one that actually gave the increase and so guys I know someone's going to disagree matter of fact we got a few in the in the in the we got a few in the chats right now that they're disagreeing so now here's my question here's my question based on what we've covered on my explanation I've covered Romans 3 John 3 before and linked with the Old Testament passages that spoke about it before it happened where am I wrong they're going to be a thousand comments afterwards saying hey Cor you're wrong you are whatever okay fine over what I said I need you to tell me I know where's a young gentleman who was I say I'm not sure how old you are you might be older than me okay so you say the exegesis with with okay so where am I wrong you're bringing up Ephesians Ephesians 2 8 so tell me where I'm wrong tell me in the chats where I am wrong on this misunderstanding that I have could be this misunderstanding that I have of Ephesians 2 8 let's pull it back upon the screen so I'm stating that for by grace you have been saved for by grace you have been saved through faith and this word faith is in the feminine and saved is in the masculine so now I'm sorry I thought I had on screen so you're saying grace is the gift I'm saying you said grace is the gift salvation that makes no sense that makes for by grace says you have been saved you're saying grace is the only thing that that that that's the gift you're saying are you saying grace is the only gift again the rule states and this is where you're going to have to and I send salvation is a gift okay fine salvation is a gift well I missed you salvation is a gift but when I stated I gave the rule and I even gave the professor I let him explain it I try to explain it also so when we say that let's put it back on the screen Mr. Christian that because this word where's that oh this word right here now pay attention for me if you could this word right here look in the bottom left hand corner okay this word to ta if you look it says pronoun demonstrative neuter okay this word is in the neuter it should if it's going to describe something it should be describing whatever case it's in in this case it's pistols is in the feminine so faith is in the feminine are you guys with me I mean you guys follow me faith is in the feminine this whatever the gift is is in the neuter well then we also go to salvation guess what that's in salvation look in the bottom left hand corner this is in the masculine so the question is if salvation is the gift why then is the this that's referring to it not also in the masculine that would be just your normal typical greek grammatical structure but it's not if faith alone was it that all speaking of faith is in the feminine then it wouldn't be too tight in the feminine I mean the neuter it would be this would be written in the feminine the reason why you would have too tight the neuter is because it's describing all of that so from the beginning from for by grace you have been saved through faith and this not your own it is a gift of God that part is the gift that is what's covered by the neuter now that's the rule sir I didn't make up the rule I didn't invent the rule so the issue is going to be if you disagree tell me how to apply that rule properly if I'm misapplying I'm open I am open to saying that hey I misapplied that I'm open to saying that I've misapplied it I'm even open to saying that Bill mounts has misapplied it now Bill mounts has what 30 40 years of teaching basic beginning greek second year greek and so forth you can make that point that case to me it'd be hard to make that case to him but he can be wrong I can be wrong could I show other I could show other examples the problem is going to be though that grammatically speaking they might be open or subject to different interpretation but this isn't the rule is the rule is the rule remember I had the conversation with the with the brother we were talking about eternal security and I and I brought up the issue of the infatic negation the greek rule and he said no no you're wrong and I said well that's what the rule means he says yeah but you're misapplying the rule first of all you can't misapply that rule that I was bringing up but he didn't know greek and so I said well I'll wait for you to come up with a grammarian that's going to say that hey you were applying that rule improperly he hasn't he didn't like the conclusion so he argues that the rule is wrong or ignores rule because he doesn't like the conclusion I don't I'm you cannot be so arrogant to where you say the rule is wrong because I don't like what where the rule is pointing me to okay so I've got a few more minutes but you're not making a point though you're not you're not even refuting my point sir um no no Brian says so are you saying that someone born again can reject Christ hence I don't I'm not saying that either I'm saying born again precedes you having faith being born again is what causes you to place your faith in Christ I think that everyone that's born again will place their faith in Christ there's a past in in in acts 1348 that says that all those that were pointed believe now does that nail the point no but I don't see an example there's no example of anyone having been being regenerated not placing their faith we're just we're told that those who have placed their faith have been regenerated and so I think that everyone who has had their heart regenerated because what does Jesus what does Jesus what does God say that those people in Ezekiel once their heart has had the spirit put in them he says he will he will cause them to walk in his teachings that's what he says so um that would be that so I don't I don't think anyone can can make that point let's go back to the scripture I want to pull something back up let's see where was I going where was I going until I find where I'm going let's go back and make sure I have some questions are our works the same as good works yeah I would say they're the same and by the way now this argument I don't want to get into the argument as to is faith a works but it is but I would say this if you think that it is or isn't asked up this question is it something that you can boast about can you boast about your faith because it is even that you cannot boast in that he says let's see what let's see what a Christian pull Christian stop Christian stop all you did was tell me what I just said this right here is a gift it's in the neuter now the gift can be this particular word can be in the neuter remember guys in Greek you can have a neuter ending you can have a masculine ending you can have a feminine ending you can have a feminine ending you can have a feminine ending you can have a feminine ending now every word in Greek may not show up with all those different endings in the New Testament but for example the word the in Greek there are 24 ways to say the you can say it in the masculine form the four ways in masculine you can say the four masculine ways in the plural as well singular or mass or plural masculine which is eight different ways then you have those same eight ways that show up in the feminine and those same eight ways singular and plural in the neuter okay and they help us identify who and what is being talked about what the subject is all these different things it helps us it helps us to better see and understand the conversation Greek is a much better language in terms of reading and understanding than obviously English is and so that's why sometimes when the Bible says you either in Hebrew as well many cases we know who the you is for example we brought this issue up about someone saying that we're supposed to edify ourselves and they point to Jude 20 building yourselves up and they're using another word a doken not a doken oh my mind just went blank the word for building up is also used there so it is building up but it's y'all build up y'all self others and so this is where the plural understanding that's the plural you this christen h asked a question okay let me see what christen h christen h I'm not addressing your question I didn't see your question sweetheart so let me find christen h's question you said Cory you are wrong when you said that you can get a new heart from God and not have salvation at the same time there is no biblical scripture to support your statement not in the Greek okay let me say it again he gives a chronology in John 3 let's pull it back up in John 3 here it is y'all may tease which is unless now this is the chronology so what has happened before you see the kingdom of God uh not able to see to fail which is not able to see the kingdom of God by the way guys the reason why I'm reading more Greek is because someone said that I just used the tools uh as though I couldn't read it so I'm just making sure you know I at least can read it and I'd be that great at it but I can at least read it how about that but the chronology is set forth that the first thing that's going to happen is that you be born again you be born and then even kind of going along with what's said in Ezekiel then he'll cause you to walk in his teachings he'll cause you and so first thing that happens is the being born again portion how long does a person place their faith in Christ I don't know I don't know um can I make the statement um that definitively uh once you are uh born again that it takes years couldn't say that couldn't make the same that it takes uh a minute who knows but it's not the same thing all I'm saying is being born again is not the same as your faith now if you once you're born again I believe you're going to have faith but I cannot state I cannot say that being born again is the same as placing your faith in Christ all right oh I went all the way to the beginning and I said okay well if that's not what I originally said sweetheart then I may have misspoken but I'm saying now I've always stated this I as a matter of fact I've got a couple videos on what it means to be born again uh and I stated that being born again does not mean salvation folks say y'all y'all heard me say that that um people say I have you been born again well they say that to mean being being saved I know they're getting it but being born again is not salvation being born again leads to salvation so again we see we we see two different things brought up uh unless before you can see the king of god what do you have to have you have to have you have to have been born again you have to have this regeneration that produces this faith even according to let's pull Titus even according to um Titus 35 he says he saved us not because of works done by us in righteousness but according to his own mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the holy spirit whom he poured out on this I'm moving I'm going more into that and so um what he did what he did was the washing by his own mercy is washing the regeneration that's changing of our heart changing of our hearts then we make the profession of faith he says so faith is equal to seeing the king of god okay um let me ask you a question is anyone ever placed faith in Christ that's not going to see the king of god so yeah it is yeah before you can see the king of god um you you you you have in order to see the king of god what is the same as placing faith to say otherwise I I gotta look at my understanding of faith then what faith does and the king of god is the king of god salvation I think it is I think I think if I think the king of god is salvation or the king of heaven same thing they're used interchangeably somebody's gonna disagree but they have no no biblical leg stand on the king of god and the king of heaven is um equated to salvation now it also has other implications as well I'm so I don't want to just be just extra basic but faith is what gets you there faith is what gets you salvation faith is what gets you the king of god are you with me so I'll tell you what I'll tell you what she said can we camera with you on this or I'll tell you what I've got about 15 minutes send me an email send me an email uh and I will let me go ahead and close that out send me an email um smarkerson challenge email I'll go ahead and bring one or two of you on what I just do all right now you have to do it quickly you have to do it quickly so so send me send me an email and I'll go ahead and Katrina if you want to come on was it Katrina or Kristen no I'm sorry Kristen send me an email I'll send you I'll send you the link what about those those people in Christian's home Christian homes who just believe they never come to a defining point of faith they don't make it I mean if you have the sun you have salvation but believing you do but not having you is it's not the same so someone can think that they're safe brought up in a Christian home uh and at the same time they've never actually placed their faith in Christ they just believe that Jesus died on the cross for them but they it never became any more than just a thought just like they believe that California's on the west coast whatever they just kept on moving um and we need to talk about this too because there is a fine line between what we would call this free gray salvation and lordship salvation there's a fine line um and you can you should you if if you're genuine and honest you should be able to see the points of both sides and so um soon enough we're going we're going to cover that someone named Chris and by the way guys um what I'm not going to do I as always I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you guys your feet to the fire we're gonna I need you to be on and off quickly make sure that your camera uh is on make sure you got a good connection um and then we'll we'll do that okay so um I'm not going to entertain every see I'm not I'm not going over every single passage in the bible uh over election and predestination okay I would like to stick with the passages that I covered and so we'll just do that alright so okay so I just want to uh to Christian okay and then I think what's the young lady's name again where's the young lady's name I forgot the I forgot the young lady's name that quickly Kristen alright listen to Christian I'll bring you both on matter of fact if you both want one at the same time new problem that way we can be so I've sent I've sent you both the uh the link make sure by the way you don't you don't use Firefox to come on you can use Google you can use um what's that Safari those are the two uh browsers or whatever you call those things that this particular software um let's see can you reference my can you ask my references okay Christina let me see what you what you ask by the way guys if I don't see your uh your questions I'm not saying this with you but if I don't see your questions uh it's not you I mean it's not me I may I just simply may not see it what did Christine say Christian hold on one second hold on one second let me uh Christina did I type it wrong okay I messed up something somewhere wait a second let me find this lady's uh question real quick Christian oh I'm sorry I was typing in wrong no wonder all right um you all hold on one second let me let me find her question you all hold on one second let me YouTube up turn YouTube off you're gonna have to listen to your speakers Christina that's that was on your end um what is me so okay so okay I tell you what I'll do Katrina I'll come back I'll come back to this uh before I leave as a matter of fact I'll highlight this moderators make sure I come back to this to this question so I can go ahead and uh talk to my guests matter of fact I'll leave it up so no I won't I have to so moderators make sure I come back to to that uh that particular question let's see is there anyone else all right so so far it's just you two guys all right let me unmute all right let me unmute okay somebody I'm getting I'm getting feedback Kristen and Nathaniel I'm getting feedback when you're in back Kristen and Nathaniel I'm getting feedback when you're in so we don't have anything but you something is feeding back into it it's got so I think the issue is uh you have to have YouTube off and just mute your mic YouTube off okay is that better yeah can you hear me I thank you all right all right so let me see let's let's um all right what I should have done was well all right guys all right so uh who wants to go first with the first with the first question or the first objection I let my brother go first if you want to okay go ahead go ahead Kristen okay all right I'm unmuted uh first and foremost I just want to quickly say uh man this is amazing I've been watching your videos and uh I didn't know today I would be chatting with you on here so you're you're uh humility and just humbleness to even bring someone on like me this is my first time on here so okay what matters I'm glad to have you on here I'm glad to have you on here we used to do it more uh in the past but this can be dangerous we've got so trying to do we've got some people in one lady who was all of this we can't trust because it's the bible was given to us by the Illuminati and okay well so so I have to be careful sometimes and so I have I now I have to kind of hold people uh to be a little bit more stricter in in in what we're going to cover so but but uh what what what you got from me Christian I was trying to catch some of the stuff that you were saying I couldn't catch it all um while I was still yeah I didn't cover all my points but I didn't want to stay here too long because I know I was I was going to be over two hours but uh what what what what you got from your brother alrighty um yeah I guess I just want to preface this by this is a secondary issue you know I think we agree on all the primaries you know um so I mentioned uh latent flowers soteriology 101 for those that want to check out his channel um you could check it out be a brian like our brothers trying to do and say look up the greek and that kind of stuff but he's kind of what got me on um thinking of like um election as um corporate mm-hmm so I just wanted to like comment on there I didn't know I was going to be doing a video chat you know so um so like in light of like john 316 for god so love the world he gave his only begotten son and like I think it's in uh first peter second peter forgiving brother I'm not prepared but he says like um he doesn't want any to perish you know he's patient you know god is loving god is kind he he gives us all a choice if if god um is predestining people to heaven that automatically means he's predestining some for hell no let's go back passers let's let's pass it back up I I was just going to finish I was going to finish my point but I'll give it okay I'll give you just to finish it I'm not going to cut you off okay all right yeah so like if if god say if there's mike winger mike winger puts it this way say if there's if there's ten people if god predestined some to go to heaven like say five and it's a narrow path right so four let's say four out of ten he shoot he he automatically predetermines for them to go to heaven the other six he's passing over and I heard rc sprawl say that it's like um uh it's like a negative he's not active in choosing them to go to hell but he's he's active in choosing who he wants to predestine before the foundations of the world so before they're even created he's already determined who is going to go to heaven and then also he's creating people though he already knows that they're going to go to hell see the god the god that I see in the bible he gives us all the choice so I have a conscience I'm with knowledge that's the Latin with knowledge I have a conscience like the ten commandments I know I shouldn't steal I know I shouldn't kill everybody in the whole world has a conscience even though they know even if they don't know Jesus so it's on them if they want to if they want to choose God or not so like I can choose to reject God even as a kid I knew about God but I didn't come to faith until I was like 20 and I'm 31 now but um it's our choice if we want to follow God or not what made you choose them so I chose God I mean for years I just rejected him my dad was a total hypocrite I grew up in group homes foster homes and I felt like God was just I would hear a pastor preach you know and I was just jaded because uh how my family was they talked about God but they didn't live it out and I'm sure a lot of people have had similar experiences but I just responded to the call you know like reading like John 3 16 there's a reason why that verses is known all throughout the world like for God to love the world he gave his only begotten son you know and um I just finally got tired of just uh going nowhere with my life and I just always knew like the gospel you know I was fortunate to hear the gospel you know what I'm asking is what made what what what was the reason that you chose him what what was the reason it caused you to finally choose God finally choose Christ what was about you well like I was saying I grew up in group homes and stuff and like foster homes and I lived with a lot of people but so I was I was I was in trouble I used to fight a lot my uh testimonies on Spotify library of testimonies library of testimonies if you want to listen to it but um I I um hold on brother you gotta mute your mic I gotta go ahead I got it all right um so all love once again so I just finally like I just broke down I chose the Lord I just said hey I want to I want to serve you on a fall you I don't even know what to do I just know that Jesus died on the cross for my sins well when I genuinely gave my life to him it's like uh he regenerated me and it's like I had a baptism of fire but it's not like the charismatic like crazy baptism of fire I didn't start speaking in tongues you know although I was like right question you said that when you chose him then he regenerated you yeah it's like he gave me that he gave me that baptism of fire do we have any do we have a passage that we can point to that says that after someone believes that their heart gets regenerated um yeah I mean I'm just I'm just keeping it simple I'm going to John 3 16 for God's love the world that he he gave me to be God's son that whoever believes in him shall not perish let's go so you have to believe you have to believe so you shall not perish but wait a second wait a second John 3 16 is the most quoted verse in matter of fact on the planet right however let's see what John 3 16 says it's not saying that whosoever believes that whosoever wants to believe that's not what John 3 16 says let's pull it up he says for God or in this way this is how God loved the world now the English we says for God so loved the world God does love the world but this is how he this is how God shows love the world how he shows love for the world and he's going to tell us that why he gave his son that he gave his son the the only one now the English says whoever believes in him should not perish let's look what what the word actually says uh that a whole state tone we on time my name is the only one that he gave he gave the only one of his kind Jesus obviously talking about Jesus in order that henna or that all the believing ones the ones that are believing in him would not perish the point of John 3 16 is Jesus is trying to let this these Jews understand the way it used to be you guys could believe and you could believe and then perish afterwards because you could believe because the the the atoning system that was there left you in right standing for one year so it's possible to have your sense of tone for this year next year I have my tone for either through your faith or through what have you uh you no longer participate in the day of atonement and so you could it's possible that you can have your sense of tone for this year the following year not well the remedy for that was that the believing ones in him would never perish that's what that's that's literally how we how he writes it in order that pass henna in order that pass all of how this do on if you want to look at the bottom left hand corner says all of the believing ones this is a present active participle so the believing ones in him so those that are believing him will not perish and so the point of John 3 16 is not so who so ever will come which is how we've seen many people preach it John 3 16 literally says that the believing ones those that are believing him will never perish it's a statement to state that salvation has come and it's permanent that that's what that passes as so we take it to say who's whoever wants to come come I believe whoever wants to come I really truly believe that whoever wants to come uh can come but the reason why I asked you the question why did what made you choose is that no one will come no one wants to come uh Paul says that there is none that seek after none that choose not one person that includes you that includes me and so if you say that I chose him well then what did Paul mean when he said that there's none that seek after him and there's none that choose him brother can I respond okay I'll stay in the text um alright in verse 14 it says in John 3 verse 14 for those that are watching as well as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the son of man be lifted up so he's referencing to how Moses lifted up the serpent right and all that were um gonna die they they all whoever would look right whoever would look at the serpent that Moses was holding up they would they would be saved and not die so they had to choose to to look up at him or look up at the serpent and I think that's why it parallels verse 15 so that whoever believes in him will have eternal life because they chose to look up at the serpent they chose to look up and he's saying he's referencing that he's gonna die on the cross so if you're gonna look up at Christ you know you're gonna put your faith in that cross what he did for you and then also I wanna jump to verse 17 for God did not wait let me just finish 17 for God did not send the son into the world to judge the world but that the world might now what's the Greek for the word might that the world might be saved if if God knew who would be saved why is he using the word might this this is these words are in red these are from Christ mouth himself why did he say might have eternal life okay so now this is this is why we want to stick to um the actual the actual wording so now in this in this phrase can you can you see the screen well yes brother okay so it says let's see verse 17 it says now the word might in English I mean in Greek is not there okay so it says all henna ha cosmos out to so it but in order that be saved the world through him now the may could be added just to just to add clarification it's now the reason why you might why you'll have the may is because this in what's called the subjunctive the subjunctive is used to infer possibility or potentiality okay and so that's why the you'll see in the English the may or might now is that is that to say that there is a possibility that they won't be saved through the sun no that's not that's not the point at all he's not saying that for god did not send his son to the world to condemn the world but in order that it's a possibility that they might be saved no he's obviously doing so there are times where even in English where we'll say something that seen the the phrasing we might use might convey potentiality but we mean it definitively let's see if I can give an example can I jump to verse 18 to stay in the same thing okay he who he who believes in him is not judged he who does not believe has been judged already I mean just the bible even they teach you like I just barely started seminary brother brother you know so I'm not going to say that I know I know everything I've just gotten by by just trying to be a brain using you know Strong's and all that kind of stuff trying to show you guys my little library I got but um it's just a straightforward it's a straightforward reading like like it sounds like we're just doing a lots of the text like you're saying can you go back to why you said that the word might doesn't is you're basically saying it's not needed in there or it's not even really you say it because you ask what was the word might what what what's the Greek word for the word might the Greek word for the word might is not there the Greek word is used there for and the reason why they put might or may in there is for this Greek word right here Sophie which is they the subjunctive form of to say or so so so what is the subjunctive form of safe can you explain that subjunctive of any of any of any verb means it can convey it's used to convey potential or possibility and so in some there it is brother brother so the possibility of salvation brother okay right there in the Greek so you just bet it you just said it bro all right listen when I say that we may have fellowship with him but we are say that we may have fellowship and my sin is a possibility we may not have so fellowship no sometimes we may say that just kind of in a in just a the form of writing sometimes we might say things but we're not trying to convey that there's a possibility that these things won't be the words do have meaning and the grammatical construct of these words also have meaning for example you bringing up like verse 18 same thing as you did with with verse 14 and verse 16 I want you to notice something because what the bible always seems to make clear to us is that we're talking about salvation is always referring to this class of people who are believing they enter into a state a one-time continual state of continual believing why do I say that you reference verse 18 verse 18 the word that's used if you can look on the screen it says ha pistuan that again is the believing ones in him if we go back up to verse 16 it says the ha pistuan those that are the believing ones in him if we go to verse 15 that whoever believes the Greek is still the ha pistuans and so it's the exact same phrase in verse 15 16 18 so we speak what you expand on that because it's pretty clear that you know you're familiar with these but can you so what is the whosoever mean can you break that down English changes over time you're 31 but and I'm not judging you guys with Christian but that sounds like a judgment bro you guys have a little gray hair in your hair so I'm going to assume that you guys are at least 40 or over well growing up we have seen English words literally change their meanings before our eyes when I was younger we really did not say the same things that you guys say nowadays bad used to mean bad but now bad means good or bad can mean bad cool can have different means cool used to be temperature now it means something that relates to temperature or it relates to something that's really nice right well it's called morphology every language has it and so there was a time that if I say whoever or whoever the believing ones are it means the same thing and so the reason why you would find course sometimes we'll carry the same phrase theology in one language I mean translation as we do another because it becomes near and dear John 316 is one of those passages that's just near and dear for God so you don't have to look at the passage for God so loved the word that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever well even the word begotten is kind of you know it throws people off as a matter of fact Jehovah's Witnesses pointed that word when really we should all we should look at what the actual meaning of the Greek word means which is why I have the Greek up so that anyone and since you're going through seminary you're going to have to start saying okay what does this really mean not how I see it in English how I was taught how this beloved youtuber says or this pastor or wherever even before even before seminary I do that yeah okay and so so while you're in seminary do are they making you learn the languages yeah you can either do the Greek or Hebrew tool option but I'm doing the I'm actually going to learn the languages okay make sure you learn the language here's what I'm going to promise you this you learn the languages a lot of your views are going to adjust a little bit I'm not going to say change I won't go that far but they'll adjust because you'll see okay that's what this word is meaning I see why they put it in English because sometimes the English just doesn't fully convey what we're trying to say in either Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic I use the NASB translation which is like the most word for word so I mean a ton of scholars I mean we can look it up right but I just I feel like you said I feel like you said a lot of things brother but and I want to give an opportunity for the for the couple but I don't feel like the might was addressed in verse 17 like you broke it down for us you know I think you know more Greek than probably than most of us on the chat but I don't think when you said you broke down the might you were saying that means possibly so how can something possibly be saved if it was predestined and like also in that same light when the Jews put the blood over the door post in when what was it when the you know I can't think right now I'm on camera but whenever they you know to save their first born they put blood on the door the Passover you know they had to choose they had to choose to put the blood over the door to to do that I mean so many all throughout scripture it's basically just make a choice you're saying all these things sorry to use a you statement but to just focus on the argument I'm hearing a lot of like Greek words I believe you have the skills for the to know Greek and stuff but I mean I could use some tools as well and I also use the Bible translation that's the most word for word other than the Greek inner linear which I have that as well but like the word might you know so that who so ever believe so we got who so ever we got whoever we have the word might be saved okay let me we got believe we got belief you know let me put up a passage let me let me let me make this point Romans 5 1 this has nothing to do with talking about but let me give you example can we stay in John can we stay in John I'm trying to you ask for an example about how the word why the word may or might might not necessarily convey that here's no can we just be in John because I think it's more easier if we just stay in John I could listen to me listen to me you're asking about the word may about probably so forth and why sometimes the word may doesn't mean may I'm trying to give you example okay just real real briefly because people in the chat might want to see this in Romans 5 1 this passage here says therefore since we have been justified by faith we have peace with God now this word have some translations are going to have may peace we that we may have peace it's the difference between the word a co-man or a common a co-man is a subjunctive form of half we may have a common is is not a co-man is still means exactly the same piece that we therefore since we have been justified by faith we may have peace with God if we have been justified we definitely have peace okay and so in this regard the may does not convey potentiality sometimes it's just part of the way they write it okay which is why rules of grammar might show up which might benefit that's the only reason why I'm pulling up Romans and so the question is back to John 3 matter of fact let's go back to one because you're the bigger issue is does faith I mean does regeneration precede faith okay because we kind of got a little bit off of that the reason why we can say it does is because Jesus literally just said so in John 3 he literally says so again look at the order of John 3 when he says truly truly I say you unless one is born of water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God what has to happen before entering the kingdom of God or seeing the kingdom of God either or both both are brought up so what has to happen they have to be born again they have to be born of the in this case their heart must be regenerated that happens first Jesus gets on Nicodemus for not knowing that though the Bible says so in Ezekiel that God is going to do this first and he's going to cause them to walk the way they're supposed to all right can I say something on John 3 3 go ahead so Jesus answered to send him truly truly I say to you unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God but then would you say that unless it's born of water and spirit he also he says the same thing he says in verse 3 and he also says it again in verse 5 now so verse 5 verse 5 says unless one is born of water so what is water that's John preached repentance no no repentance is yeah repentance is when you get baptized by water you're repenting wait a second this is not John the Baptist speaking this is John the apostle John no no no no I wouldn't make that simple I'm saying water listen listen he's not speaking about baptism baptism is not in play how do we know he's not speaking about water baptism is because look at verse 5 we're going to a whole other topic but anyway he says truly truly verse 5 unless one is born of water and the spirit how do we know he's not speaking about water or two different elements being born of water and spirit he's not talking about two elements he's speaking of one thing because that which is born of spirit of spirit notice he drops off the word water and it's just spirit then he says so it is of everyone at the bottom of verse 8 so it is of everyone who is born of the spirit what happened to water well in greek you have what's called this ep exegetical chi we do it in english all the time we'll use two or three words to say one meaning and so we know water and spirit are the same thing as a matter of fact the very next chapter he goes over to the woman of the well he uses this element of water to convey spirit about this wellspring of living water that bubbles up in her or anyone else he's speaking of the spirit in execial he's just those same two elements spirit and water to be put in someone's heart whatever being born of water is is being born from above we know that because he says you must be born from above born from above he uses this imagery of being born of water and spirit so being born of water and spirit means being born from above there is no water being born there is no baptism that's from above all he's speaking of is this spiritual regeneration of the heart that precedes it if you think if you think it's water baptism if you think it's water baptism then what you're saying is a person has to be born baptized first in order to make it to heaven are you saying that water baptism is a requirement for salvation no brother no I was I was trying to get I was trying to get what you were trying to say I think I let us a little off topic on that just even asking that question on verse 5 I think you're right water is flesh and then spirit is obviously spiritual spiritual spirit but in verse 14 I got to get to the next group what passage do you find that you become saved and then your heart gets regenerated what passage would you turn to to prove that so just like it says and keeping it in the same this is why I wanted to keep it I didn't want to jump to Ephesians 2a and go to Romans and passages I just wanted to stay in the text so verse 14 as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of Man be lifted up so that whoever believes whoever believes will and him have eternal life so they made the choice to look at the serpent and whoever is going to choose to put their faith to me I've never had an issue because I wanted to go to the master's seminary with John MacArthur but when I read this it's like Moses lifted up the serpent and they looked at it it's pretty straight forward no Christian it's not whoever the word whoever is not there how you're trying to make an emphasis on whoever if you're going to emphasize a word you need to make sure that the word that you're emphasizing is there the word whoever is not there it is look here it is look up to the right side henna pas, ha pistuan it's the exact same phrase that's in verse 16 that the word whoever in the English is not there is the word pas the word pas means all each or every so all or each or every of the believing ones the word believes is pistuan let's look at it again so here we have whoever is actually the word pas alright do you see that and if you look at the bottom of the screen it tells us that it is all every okay then believes is the word pistuan it is the present active participle a present active participle is just when you add the ing so all of the believing ones so in order that all the believing ones all who would believe all who would choose to have faith no no no that's not what okay listen let me respond to that wait a second you're saying that all who would believe the point is who are the ones who chose to look at the serpent the believing ones will not have a point he's making is now did they make a choice or was that predestined sure they did I'm not saying it's predestined or not my point is okay so why did Jesus reference that in verse 14 okay Christian the point that he's drawing off of this is what I tried to say in the beginning the point that he's making in John 3 is salvation coming to not just the Jews not just to the world but coming permanently that's the point that he's making and in doing so the way that has to happen first because Israel is a dis obedient nation and so he has stated time and time in the old Testament that God has stated that he is going to do something he is going to take out their heart of stone and replace their heart of stone with the heart of flesh how is he going to do that by these same two elements that we see in John 3 water and spirit he's going to sprinkle their hearts clean water he also reiterates that again to these Jews in Hebrews as well I believe Hebrews 10 and give them put his spirit in them and when he does so you see the exact same chronology in Ezekiel when he does so he's going to cause them to walk according to his teachings and so he brings that up in John 3 he's bobbed by Nicodemus he says you a teacher of Israel you don't know this but why would he know this because it's been written in the old Testament you could have Nicodemus you a teacher should have known this and so his point is what is going to happen now the heart is going to be regenerated because in the past you guys just would not do right you won't seek after me you won't choose me Paul says so in Romans so no see that's why I'm saying so you're saying Romans but Romans is written later this is John this is like the initial so before all that other stuff came I'm sorry okay Christian here's my question to you wait can I respond to what you just said a lot can I respond to that after you answer this question what when Paul stated because it's not like Paul's statement is outside of the Bible when Paul stated that there is none who choose there's none that search after him what does he mean wait wait I'm sorry I'm like deep in John 3 right now you're asking me something about when John when Paul stays in Romans 3 that there are none that seek after him there's no one that's going to choose him no one that seeks after him no one that's just none racist what does he mean by that sorry I'm trying to hold my phone steady okay so you said what Romans 3 when Paul says in Romans 3 that there are none that seek after him but brother come on we should be staying in John to do proper exegesis right because what we're looking at the examples right let me just say something real quick and if you don't agree just just let it be said and then we can move on to Romans 3 if you want I've got to get to the next one because I think what's happening is can I say one last thing brother please alright first of all thank you it's an honor to be on your channel that just shows your type of heart to even be willing to do that everybody say what's up to my son he just came in hey son okay so now alright so John 3 14 John 3 Romans 3 Romans 3 hey we're supposed to stay on John but I asked you a question listen to my question why are we jumping to Romans man because I asked you a question okay but come on now so now I have to do complete exegesis on Romans 3 no you have to listen to what I'm saying Christian I ask you a question just work with me alright I'm going longer than I wanted to Christian you made the statement that regeneration happens after faith I asked you for a passage you won't be able to give me a passage now you're saying that people are choosing I'm the reason why we're going back to Romans 3 which I had in the very beginning of the video let's put it up because no one according to Paul is righteous no one understands no one seeks no one does good not one so now I'm asking you in light of that how can anyone say that they chose God they sought after him which was the first question I asked you what made you choose Christ what was it about you when Paul says nobody that's all encompassing of you and me and anyone else none of us wants to seek after him so what was it about you that Paul missed because if you sought after him if you were seeking after him that would mean that Paul meant everyone but you or but a few are you with me so my question is how do you understand this passage then right here brother right here alright can you turn to Ezekiel chapter 18 Ezekiel chapter 18 verse 30 wait hold on for those in the chat we have to move quick I want you to go to Ezekiel 18 I'm putting it on the screen 30 through 32 therefore I will judge you O house of Israel everyone according to his ways declares the Lord God repent and turn from all your transgressions less iniquity be your ruin cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed and I may and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit why will you die O house of Israel the pleasure in the death of anyone declares the Lord God so turn and live can I commentate on that I asked for the verse right what I'm going to have to do is let you go and get with them they've been sitting there waiting patiently I'm going to have to deal with this this is a huge topic it's been going on for thousands of years so it's all in love and I just commend you for your humility bringing us on and just being humble nice I appreciate you but verse 30 therefore I will judge you O house of Israel each according to his conduct so I think even that relates to how is God going to judge us all at the end of the earth by our conduct I agree declares the Lord God repent what does repent mean in Hebrew since this is written in Ezekiel the word repent is the word repent you were going this way you were walking this way you're literally going to change direction in Greek it means to change your mind so here it's like you were going one way you need to go the other and turn away from all your transgressions so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you why is he addressing them to make a choice to repent and then it says in verse 31 you asked about regeneration of the heart cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit for why will you die oh house of Israel for I have no pleasure and death of anyone who dies for the Calvinist who says God predestines some before the foundations of the earth I take it as corporate he's predestining those who are those those who would put their faith in Christ he has a place for it it's not all individuals this is the best verse I got right now for it I'm gonna let you go but I'm gonna go ahead and destroy your argument real quickly alright you ready he tells them to do so he tells them to repent to turn he tells them to renew their heart right do they what's the answer no they do not but then his remedy is yeah it's sad yeah so what's the answer he doesn't want anyone to die no pleasure in death Christian listen he asks them to he begs them to they don't what's God's remedy for them not changing their heart for them not changing their spirit for them not repenting why would he ask them to do something they can't do so God so Christian Christian about the mutual you're not listening I did not say they couldn't see what you're doing is you're assuming that I'm the Calvinist with the regular talking points that latent flowers comes up with I didn't say they couldn't I said they won't God asked him to do so no what I responded to let me say real quick in love brother in love I'm just saying you said no one can choose God you said no one can choose God so I'm responding to that this make a choice I'm gonna let you go alright love you brother because guys Christian didn't listen I did not say as a matter of fact at the very beginning this is what happens you come in with a presupposition you come in with a a conclusion and you don't listen you don't listen the very first thing that I said that I disagree with Calvinism I'm sorry I still got you guys muted I'm sorry the first thing that I stated was that I disagree with the Calvinists when they say that you cannot choose I didn't say you cannot God and to obliterate his argument God asked him he begs him all the time not just in Ezekiel to turn to repent to change fix your heart they never do and so God's remedy for Ezekiel 18 is Ezekiel 36 fine since you won't do it now there's gonna be punishment but in the future I am going to I am going to wash your heart with water and put my spirit in which is what Jesus is talking about water and spirit that's it so anyway there is no such passage where we can find or we can find that regeneration comes after faith Paul writes for I'm sorry bro I didn't mean to have you waiting this long but go ahead y'all done that so well I forgot what I wanted to ask you you were just not agreed with me no no no I listen to you a lot so I just want to make sure you didn't I'm praying you misquoted that's my fraud right now and if you say you misquoted I'm done I'm good even though you say you're partial you say you don't even told the provident by your verses teaches told the provident but that ain't my question that's just the thing I'm pointing at so you made a statement that a person can have a new heart and not have salvation no no no no I'm saying listen I'm saying listen a new heart a new heart don't you disappoint me I've been listening to you too long don't disappoint me a new heart a new heart doesn't mean they're safe but I believe a new heart will cause them to be safe I don't think that we can find an example I don't think there's probably an example of someone's heart being regenerated who did not become safe but my point is the two words are not the same two things are not the same God gives you a new heart which means you have a new disposition your heart has changed now with this new heart oh Jesus did die from my sin oh it's going to happen at the same time I'm not saying it's necessarily going to happen at the same time I don't know if it does or doesn't I don't think it does because it's two different words it doesn't even have to happen at the same time regeneration salvation doesn't have to happen immediately at regeneration but I believe it will happen I don't think that how are you going to have the same argument that with that one-on-one guy that I don't like so he makes the argument you got to have regeneration before faith you got to have faith the argument is not simultaneously it doesn't happen at the same time you don't get one without the other you're not going to be regenerated and not have faith or you're not going to not have faith and not be regenerated I believe tomorrow you're going to be saved it don't work like that we don't know that we don't have any scripture to say so okay so in Ephesians chapter 2 when the man is dead you're dead in your sin I'm going to breathe a little iron to you today and then tomorrow I'm going to breathe some more and then by Friday you're going to be saved now Ephesians chapter 2 immediately says you are quicker the gift of Ephesians 2.8 and 9 you just read it said it's one gift it doesn't say gifts it says Doug gift Doug's an article in front of that Doug gift Ephesians chapter 8 Ephesians 2.8 and 9 that you use okay Ephesians 2.8 you said Ephesians 2.8 yeah 8 and 9 you did it earlier okay hold on I just changed it I'll put something else Ephesians 2.8 8 and 9 the one you did earlier Ephesians 2.8 9 and 10 it says for by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not your own doing it is a gift of God not a result of works so that no one may boast for we are His worship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk with Him now how do I get to say that that they happen simultaneously from that passage you said Doug gift that's a direct article it doesn't say that our salvation comes because that this you was right that this, that 8 and 9 I'll let go together but it's one gift so when he begins the chapter in Ephesians chapter 2 no no no no no he's speaking of collectively faith and salvation right my point is it goes back to the whole phrase so yeah you was right on that it talks about both of them grace and faith goes together let me read this passage and see what you think about this passage alright so see if I can renew your faith in me alright let's go to 1 Corinthians chapter 2 I want you to miss me it's going to be on the screen he says listen the natural person 1 Corinthians what chapter 2 verse 14 2 14 I really ain't got that yet it's on the screen okay I'm on my the problem is I'm on my right lie town and I can see that where I go ahead okay he says for the natural person that's a non-believer does not accept the things of the spirit of God why and why for they are folly to him he is not able to understand them they are spiritually discerned the spiritual person judges all things but himself is to be judged by no one so the problem that we have is the natural person the unbeliever has an unspiritual heart so to speak he can't receive in other words it's an FM broadcast and he has an AM receiver so what has to happen to him this carnal person is a fleshly minded person can't understand anything spiritual his heart has to be changed spiritually then he can understand it and so even 1st verse 2 verse 14 is kind of given the process before he can understand this spiritually discerning message he has to be able to receive a spiritual message how does he receive a spiritual message his heart has to be changed that's John 3 so his heart has changed then the next time or whenever he's ready he receives a spiritual message that's faith I don't know, I can't say definitively that as soon as his heart has become spiritual as soon as his heart is regenerated that he then places his faith at that exact same moment there's no passage of scripture that says that a person can get a new heart and a new heart without salvation you can walk around with this new heart but you're not saying what passage of scripture can you use to hold that just like you can't find a passage of scripture that says that once they get regenerated they immediately place faith all we know is that to be in Jesus Christ we are new creatures we know there's one fact that a person with a regenerated heart will be saved so he can walk around with a regenerated heart and not be saved and then someone come around and say Jesus did, oh now I'm saved he can do that for years listen, listen you're putting too much emphasis on the fact that I'm saying that they're not simultaneous I'm not saying that it happens in 2020 and then 2024 he plays, that's not what I'm saying I'm saying they're two different things they may very well happen simultaneously I don't know, we don't have any passage as they do or they don't, what I'm saying is regeneration is not salvation it's two different things all regeneration is that's the question so in Ephesians chapter 2 where we came from we just left from the Bible said we're dead and our trust pass then we read a couple of verses the lady said God quickens us is that a one-time event? because the word quicken in chapter 2 of Ephesians suggested salvation we are made alive at the beginning we did in our sins we were walking around in our trust pass we out of it and then he turned around and said God quickens us so what you're saying is how are you going to get a new heart and you day it you can't walk around with a new heart and be dead at the same time I didn't say, wait a second something's happening in the community because you're thinking if I put the key in the ignition turning the ignition doesn't necessarily mean the car is going to start but turning the ignition is how the car starts if I give you the key in other words changing your heart it's not the same thing it's two different things they could be simultaneous you all are missing my point I'm not saying they're not simultaneously I'm also not saying that they are simultaneous all I'm saying is it's two different things now the reason why I can say that they might be two different things is because here's a passage that he was bringing up that Layton Flowers brought up and that's his issue in Colossians 2 where he says that and it was a good point that he brought up he says having been buried with him in baptism in which you were also raised with him through faith so we are raised in him through faith however if regeneration is faith if regeneration is that we're now made alive through regeneration then we got a problem because we're raised through faith we're made alive through faith we don't have a problem I've seen the video the problem that God didn't know how to answer the question there's no problem because every book of the New Testament has the different ways okay let me ask you a question what does regeneration mean regeneration being born again to have a new heart to be made new now let me make my point do I take Matthew the word regeneration is not in Matthew but then Jesus tells how to get into the kingdom you got to go the narrow way once you go the narrow way what does that mean I'm born again I'm regenerated the reason why you say born again is salvation is because I use your term how old are you 58 okay so for 58 years you've heard some pastor preach that being born again is salvation I'm saying the word for born again all it means all it means is being born born from above it's just being born from above the process is born from above being born from above is different then listen if that's how you want to take it that's fine I want to understand how you interpret it being born from above is how to believe and he said you don't have those resources those resources come from above hold on here it is being born from above being born again is the spirits working so here it is once the spirit enters the heart and changes the heart are you with me I need you to follow me once the spirit goes into the heart that person's heart has been regenerated right now when the spirit comes in without being born saved hold on listen to me listen to me when the spirit goes into the heart and regenerates the heart are we saying the spirit is making them safe the spirit is making them giving them faith no they didn't have to place faith in Christ we're told to believe we're told to believe if we don't have to believe the spirit did it for us no all the spirit did was change our heart so we could believe when the spirit comes in now we have the mechanism by which we can believe the spirit doesn't believe for us if that be the case all we got to do is just be here so where do the faith come from so where do the faith come from the faith is the the ability the ability the ability to trust him the ability to trust him us trusting him comes as a result of having a regenerated heart exactly which comes from who comes from the Holy Spirit so in Ephesians chapter 8 he literally just agreed with me faith the gift and grace and faith the gift you get to regenerate the heart with houses the grace and grace all you've got you only have a few passages where we talk about this regeneration and again the spirit comes in you right let's say and we're going to go ahead and cut it off but let's say it's 740 pm and I just got my heart regenerated at 740 pm the spirit enters my heart and changes my heart right now am I saved yeah so according to you the spirit did everything listen the spirit does everything the spirit does everything the salvation is totally of God okay I didn't say it wasn't of God I said that now we are belief is required we have to believe but we can't no one no man we have to God let's God put that in us do what how we're going to believe if it don't come from the Holy Spirit i'm not saying you're not listening to me you're not listening to me i'm not saying i'm not saying i'm going to call this than you are you know I learnt my dispensation i'm saying The moment that the spirit goes in, the moment that a heart is regenerated, the moment that a heart is regenerated, the person now has, I believe, the ability to now make an affirmative decision to place his faith in Christ. That's what happens. The spirit didn't believe for you, the spirit doesn't believe on your behalf, the spirit just allows you, gives you, regenerates your heart so that you then make the decision. We are called to believe. Those who believe, not those who God makes believe, God gives the ability, our hearts regenerate, and then we make this profession. And so the spirit, all I know is it's two different terms. Regeneration is not the same as faith. Regeneration is not the same as faith. And so once our heart is according to John 3, according to Titus 3, we are regenerated and then we make the profession of faith. Now, I don't know how long it takes after regeneration for a person to believe. I do know that regeneration doesn't come after faith. I know that. I think the previous gentleman was incorrect. But anyway, guys, it is 7.43. We're two hours in. Yeah, I know you were, I know you were. I was trying to leave an hour ago. But that's a good conversation because I think it's one event. I think it's one. I think they have the regeneration faith. All that happens at one time. I don't think there's a period of time between now. And I don't think I can find a, I probably can find more passage of scripture, even Greek that says it's Samistanias versus trying to say, okay, this happened here and then this happened later. It'll be a half minute to find that and then try to prove it with scripture where I can teach it dogmatically. That's the problem I have with it. Okay, well, listen. Listen, as long as we believe there's one thing, faith is required. You must believe in Christ. I agree with that, so. And we believe that. To me, that's neat because the other brother got serious issues and let's agree to pray for him. For real, let's pray for this other brother that the seminary he'd go to be a great seminary and that he'll come along better. Well, he's younger. He's younger and so I believe that if his desire is to really say what the Bible says and not what he wants to say, same with me, same with me because I had to get past some things that I thought. I said, I wanted things to be a certain way and because I wanted to be a certain way, I read them a certain way, but I changed a lot of what I believe based on reading. So anyway, that being said, brother, I appreciate your time. I've got to go. I am so, so, no, Christian. Listen, it wasn't a put down, Christian. No, what we were trying to say is that wherever you go, we pray that now, I think you're well in your way, but I think if you go, if Christian, if when you go to seminary, if you go there and you're going to read a book and you're going to make the book say and the Bible says whatever says what you want to say, then that means you don't have, you're not giving the opportunity for yourself to learn or to be wrong. I read everything hoping, if I'm not hoping to be wrong, but I look to be wrong and if I'm wrong, amen, I just found something new. And so I changed my belief on tongues because of that. I changed my belief on eternal security because of that. I changed my belief on predestination because of that. I did not believe these same things. And so because of that, no one's saying you're not doing proper exegesis. Now, Christian, you're getting a little bit of finesse. So, okay, I'll leave it alone then. I'll leave you alone, Christian. No problem. Go ahead. And then we'll go ahead and dismiss that for this. Yeah, I don't have to, brother. You know, I grew up about this die hard. Yeah, cause he's a cowboy fan. I know you like to coast, but that's all right. Yeah. But when you go into seminary, what I did, I grew up a bachelor. I grew up in a very, you know, I guess good conservative church, but you got to pull out everything you think you know and then refill that cup, allow the Holy Spirit to fill your cup. Don't spend your money for nothing. Go in and empty your cup, study and let the Holy Spirit fill that cup. And you're going to change your, if you take the language, you're going to change your view on some things. That's just what that is. You're going to, that's just what that is. For sure. But I changed my views on some things that I grew up learning and about the church. Because like you said, I studied the languages. I studied my Bible and I'd be like, I'll wait when this might not be quite right. Like the conversation we have, it's really a nitpick conversation. We talk about seconds or hours. Yeah. I could be already in the bed. Cause basically we agree we said the same thing. We just nitpicking to me. Yeah. So in my thing, let's pray for this brother and go on and go to the big guy. I think I got to work. Well, I appreciate y'all. So you have a good night. I got to go get me something to eat and watch me and some of this football game that's on and then see what's happening with the rest of my family. So I appreciate you brother. Hey listen, rest of you guys, I thank you all for bearing with me. You all have a wonderful night. If you disagree, I'm looking forward to see the conversations in the chats. Someone's going to say I'm an idiot. I'm this, I'm that. Amen. But what you also have to say, I'm also your brother. Amen.