 I have a little intro talk. That's kind of long. So we're going to get through that together. It's on Tron Stage Facebook, right? It is on HowlRound's Facebook and I will be able to repost that in a bit. I have a little intro talk. Oh, there we are. That's kind of long. Gotcha. All right. So thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Alison Chu. I'm the co-founder and the executive producer of Tron Stage and we are a Boston-based theater company dedicated to cultivating Asian-American narratives in theater. So today's conversation is the fourth event of our online series Tron at Home, which is a series of live streamed events curated by young Asian-American artists of Tron Stage and hoping to find community and to amplify the voice of Asian-American theater makers through reading and conversations. So this conversation series pairs an early career with an established theater maker in their discipline and we invite you to join the conversations to discover insights and momentum to delve into our future work. So today I'm excited to be in conversation with Moon Dong-kwon, the creative and executive director of Ping Pong Productions. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much. Very well, how are you? Great. Where are you right now? I'm right now in Queens, New York with my family here. Great, great. So a little bit about Moon Dong-kwon, she was born in Beijing and received her bachelor's degree in English and fine arts from Beijing University. She was a regular contributor to Beijing National Center for the Performing Arts magazine from 2009 to 2012, concert master of Beijing University, symphony orchestra, and music instructor for Dean Dart that works with undeserved children in Beijing suburbs to build their self-confidence through concert, through theater and music. So in 2014, Moon Dong-kwon was hired as production assistant for the China Portion of Mark Morris Dance Group's World Tour and has since then been a full-time staff member with Ping Pong Productions in China and the USA. Once again, welcome. So for those of you who are joining us on Zoom, today we're live streaming this conversation on HowRound Theater Commons, our live stream partner. So if you are with us on Zoom, you can ask us questions using a Q&A function on the bottom of your screen. If you're joining us on Facebook, you can also leave us a question there. So, Moon Dong, how are you doing? Like I guess in all aspects, what are some of the things that's been keeping you on your feet, interchanged? I, for example, like I know I can't, like throughout this whole time, I can't let myself be bored and watch like binge watch TV or anything like that. I'm like such like a non-stop working person. What is it like for you? Well, guilty as truck, I definitely watch TV because most of the times I don't, first of all, I don't usually stay in one place for such a long time. I've been in New York since the end of December and attended the January conferences in New York and then just wasn't able to leave at all. Yeah. So Netflix, West Road, so whatever they will, but as kind of a change of the brain, I've been volunteering on a project that helps getting personal protective equipment for the medical workers or frontliners here in New York City or the Greater New York Area and regular ping-pong work. We have launched with KMP Artist, leading agent company that's based in here in the States. So West Road in Southeast Asia and Australia. So we have a series, we have an artist connectivity series that's between the US and Chinese artists. So this has been going on, yes. Since March, early March. So a few of the projects will keep me fairly busy and watch TV. That's wonderful, that sounds like a lot of projects. That's like not easy to do right now as a lot of people have been struggling with that. But I'm so happy to hear all of that project, all of the projects are still in process. So I wanna ask you about that. The getting the protective equipments for New York City hospitals. So that is N95 for New York City. Tell us about it. I was so excited about it because you, something that I realized is that you and girl group initiated this like in response to what's happening so fast. Like within days you were able to put together a campaign, you were able to put together a group of people and come up with a full document stating the purpose in every single detail. So how did you, how did that come all together? And what was it like to put together that team and what were some of the biggest challenges? Actually I joined the team. So what has started and when I realized the mask and the protective gears are not available at all in the States. I first wanted to start it myself. And then I've realized in my network of friends there are several people are doing it already. So I joined existing actually a pair of friends, not a pair, but okay. So two friends who work in the visual arts, they are galleries and really great curators. They have already started the campaign on GoFundMe that's just at the beginning stage. Our first goal was only set at $25,000. Now we are reaching $60,000 on GoFundMe alone and then many other channels on fundraising. I think all together with donations and cash donations something around 400,000 RMB plus the $60,000 equal or equal amount of the protective equipment already donated to all the hospitals and individuals and some nursery homes as well. And the team actually came together very naturally as a network, it's a group of friends of who happened. It happened to be all female ladies, most of us that are courting this Chinese who are based here in New York working the arts. So visual artists, producer myself, gallery owner, Echo He Yu, she's the owner of a gallery in Brooklyn and it's called Fall Gallery and then Yvonne Zhou Yuan. So she works at a gallery and there are the two that started first and then I joined when I found out they started doing it. That's wonderful. I think that's a wonderful instinct over there because you said initially you wanted to start it yourself and then you figure out, oh, maybe I like somebody out there with more resource than I have is already doing it. Maybe we can just form a group. That's incredible. Yeah, I have to say, sorry, I have to say I think it's about, because this initiative it's about acting fast and filling the gaps between when a crisis started and when everyone else start to, with the most resources actually should be the government, everybody talk. The government should be doing it but it takes a longer time for a larger system to react. So as individuals, I figured just contribute whatever ability and resources we each of us have in that group and then started. Absolutely, yeah. And what I see from that, because I live in Boston, I like before all of this, like when I was hearing things that was like early, very early January, like late February, my parents, my family's in China are like, can I send, do you have protective equipment over there? Can I send you any? And that was like, and then when it gets to mid-March, things become like, it's a community-wide crisis that all hospitals are asking for donations of protective equipment. And I think part of that impulse to react so fast is to take on this responsibility for the community that you're living in and calling for people who understand the situation, who are able to manage and to help the situation and get together and to just target the crisis of the community and to react. Yeah, that's like, to me, that's like a producer mindset. You know? To me, that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. I'm proud for that. So I wanna know on the art spectrum of things, what is it like to experience this as a producer? So I know many of us had to do some incredible crisis management. The first week of all the theater shutting down, everybody, I'm seeing lots of incredible crisis management on different levels. So what were your work schedules like and how are you adjusting to this? What was the first week like for you? Yeah, yeah. I feel my stretch has been longer because when it first started in China, it's even before the Chinese New Year, first thing of course were discussions of counseling things that are already online, like in the line. But that fairly just gone quickly. And then we have two other producers that are based in China. And we also immediately reacted and we wanted an online series of live streaming shows that are still going on, which back then the rest of the world other than China still have things going on. So we launched a live streaming series of live concerts from, they were from Australia, from Hong Kong, S.A.R. from here in the States. So we've been busy for that project for a little while and we made a decision. We wanted the series to have really high quality performances instead of a lot of the live streaming were, and of course when back in China when everything else are not available, people are just streaming from their computers like what we're doing now. But we wanted to stream the professional performances to engage our friends and clients overseas. And then it started everywhere else and the shows are canceled. Another round of dealing with the cancellation and schedule adjusting. I was very actively attending many of the online webinars for the discussion with the professionals to know what has been done in doing the contracts in the first major languages and what the presenters are doing, what the artists are doing, the agencies, how everyone is responding in this. So just actively keeping an eye out what's going on in the whole industry. And kind of also the artist connectivity series partially also emerged from these early conversations that campy artists is an existing collaborator. We've been doing works together and then we decided to launch this. So I think it may come back to the N95 for NYC it's a similar kind of mindset. There is a crisis, but especially as a producer it's impossible to just sit there and wait to wait it out or just bury your head in the sand and just pretend nothing's going on. It's impossible to be like that. We have to take actions. And I think maybe you're right. I think producers for performances we are used to be in the role of putting the resources together and support everyone to do their work at their best level. And this is kind of the same kind of a response to the crisis and doing it in that way. Yeah, so there hasn't been really a routine. It's a little bit impossible to really have a routine given in self-quarantine with the family for I started since the beginning of March. I just feel every day, sometimes I can't tell if it happened yesterday or we're actually two hours ago. It's hard to keep track already. I know. Now it's difficult to keep track of time. And I completely agree with you because as a producer you can't just sit there. The impulse is to do something. So I was also in close contact with lots of theater institutions or like low-key observing what everybody's doing. And I feel like definitely different people took on different approaches. And one of my observation from like everybody's crisis management and response to the situation is like it's sometimes very between producers and producers and theater makers and theater makers because some firmly believes in the power of gathering. Some are like if we cannot gather, theater should not happen. But we should just take the time off and making sure everybody is mentally okay. And just do not, let's do not drain ourselves out to like learning on another platform, engaging audience on another medium. And some people are like, art needs to exist in a time like this. And we have to like use every single muscle that we have to put on something, something for the community. I wonder what's your observation from what you heard, all the things you participated in the project? Yeah. Actually, I agree. I think both of these kind of, if I can call it mindset, exist for their good reasons. And I agree there is a reason to not stress out about the already very stressing situation right now. It's okay. I saw a post from a friend who's also a producer actually a guru from very early on in my career. It's okay to not riot King Lear, like Shakespeare did during the pandemic. It's okay that you didn't initiate anything during this crisis because it is a traumatic experience. It's not easy. It's very hard to process. And I do see people taking a lot of actions and really trying to push it forward. I personally are, as you could probably tell, I do want to take more actions. I think it's both way or other way is a way to process this. Very special time in their own rights, in their own way. But I do think throughout this time of volunteering and creating platform for people to keep in touch and being in touch with friends and fellow colleagues, keeping in touch and feel keep connected is the way for me to feel less powerless. So it kind of empower myself to feel this is the time that we are not disconnected with anyone else yet. It is a time that actually something will grow, like something will always grow after a crisis from the ashes, this is what I'm seeing it or what I'm trying to do. But I do agree to be really self-aware, don't burn out in a ready, very stressful time is a key. Yeah. And speaking of theaters is gathering if it doesn't gather people, it shouldn't happen. I think it's a good discussion. It actually came out in our call with artists about online performance, online engagement and virtual reality is the topic that we had last week. Some artists would say, and of course the VR and online engagement will never be able to replace the in-person experience because that's what performing arts is about. It's a whole rounded experience. It requires all the different senses to be engaged while you are in the theater, the audience is part of performance experience. But the online engagement has its own purpose of existence and has its own technique that if it's art, performing arts we're not still in discussion, but still in discussion, like I said. So I think it's very interesting many things that we don't have time or energy to think about during a so-called regular time can happen at this moment. I got you, exactly. I love that when you said when you keep in touch with your friends, artists, friends that you feel supported and you feel engaged in the community and that's what I've been doing. I've been spending so much time on social media. I saw all of your serious online talks and incredible. Thank you. I spend so much, I've never been so much a social media person. I'm just like figuring out a lot about social media right now. Twitter brings me so much joy. I wanna ask you that you work with artists across the world. You definitely have a much larger community like within your range. I guess you work with artists across the world. People from Europe, Australia, Asia, you maintain a relationship with all of them. So I guess I wonder if you can tell us about what you see in the arts across the globe and have you had a chance to talk to those artists yet? The theater makers, the writers, the performers in different disciplines and how are they adjusting and have you thought of ways to help them adjust? Well, I think the artist connectivity series, the bow part of it is that we already think is, yeah, the producers are in touch, sorry, for business or for taking care of the crisis and artists as well. So the first episode of our series was about financial relief and their sustainability actually turned out artists were talking about what they were doing creatively every day to keep themselves entertained as well. And so not just between the US and Chinese artists, I was on a call and chatting with Austrian and Art Orchestra which is a collaborator we have and had a tour last year. They like what we are doing now. They have rescheduling challenges and also very importantly, I think a lot of artists are thinking of how to keep the international engagement in the future as well because traveling will be a challenge for not a few months, probably even a year. So everyone, even though now unknown how long this situation will be but actively making a plan to keep the international engagement in the right way. Because for example, in an orchestra and the instrumentalist how to really engage with each other on music when it's not in person, a Zoom call, there is always a delay and how can you jam with each other with a delay? Maybe that should be a new music to be written. The music deal with delay, I don't know. So the artists have been and we have a collaborator, a choreographer, Gu Jianing. She's actually on an ACC grant, an Asian cultural council grant and have been in New York all this time. I think her original plan has never been just staying in a New York apartment and not able to do anything else. So we sometimes check in on WeChat while I check in with her twice or three times just to see how she's enjoying her yoga and taking photos, actually, sometimes when taking a walk with social distance. Yeah, so I think that actually, I think everyone, this is something also interesting, I think that was what you mentioned. It's a globally collective experience of the same crisis, which I guess last time was 100 years ago. I know, I know, right? So frankly, I've been talking to my friend, Circle. I've been talking to a lot of writers. So I know some writers are doing some projects internationally. I'll be very interested to see if, since this is a global pandemic, a global collective experience, what are some of the possibilities after this situation? Maybe there's some collaboration can be done globally. Maybe writers across the world can be writing for one prompt, maybe not in the in-person medium, maybe somewhere online. But yeah, yeah. There are many things happening and happened online. I saw marvelous choreography I think it's from a Netherland Dance Theater. Just their choreographer dancer is doing this stream of moves that connect to the last person, each other. It's a really beautiful short video that's been circling around. There are orchestras live streaming, performing the same piece. And I think some are across the globe. And I don't know if you guys watch. More entertaining side, entertainment side. There's one world together at home done by the Global System. And that one, I saw like Yuyuma and Lola. And Lola was a Yuyuma and his fellow musicians doing one piece together. So, yeah, a lot of the artists are definitely doing the same. And I saw a Facebook post from a classical musician said in the past, the musicians wouldn't do anything unless you pay them. And how they're like, look at me. I'm on Facebook live and free. I don't, I can't say I encouraged that kind of that kind of thing. But as for donations, musicians, if you want to put something on Facebook live, it's rightful to put a link under there and say, please make a donation. Yeah. Totally. We're gonna come back to that because I wanna talk about that, all that online stuff happening. I wonder if we can get into some of the details about the international producing work that you do. And I wonder how did you get started with Ping-Pong Arts and what was your first project with them? Right. And thank you for making that introduction in the beginning. That kind of remind me how I started. With Ping-Pong, I first started on a tour with iconic American dance company, Mark Morris Dance Group. They're based in Brooklyn here. So I was actually, I just finished a second time kind of internship or internship at Lincoln Center Festival and then had a kind of a gap month and... Gap month. Mark Morris, Gap month. Lincoln, sorry. Mark Morris Dance Group was having a tour in China. And the founder of Ping-Pong Productions is Alison Friedman, who's now the artistic director at West Cologne Cultural District for the Performing Arts. I got to know her through networking in the professional project. Friends of friends were the mentors and the gurus and introduced me to her. So I joined that project to be the production manager. So it was, I remember it was like four about four months long project. Half of it was done here in New York, helping with communication with theaters for the production director. And then half of it was on tour with the company in China. I think we were in two or three cities, don't remember. So yeah, so I was doing translation and I was doing partially the production management and helping on the company management. So that was my first touring experience and also the first project was Ping-Pong. And then I came on board as a full-time Ping-Pong player. And our first tour when I was full-time was early in February, I think, 2015. We toured with Tao Deng Theater to India, Bangalore for a week or two weeks. That was a great experience as well. How, what was that experience like? Like the first time production assistant experience like for you, was there like a moment for you? Be like, it's just like the whole experience just like collect for you. And then you're like, that's exactly what I wanna do. Whether or not. That's a good question. Yeah. Okay, I kind of have to wind it back to when I was still in college, that was a English major. So once there was, so first of all, I've always been active on stage either just as a musician myself or actually in high school or in the student orchestra. I was a concert master. So I also helped with some kind of the student admin side including all how the stage should be set up for a concert and how to coordinate schedule when I need to play like a small ensemble work with some of the friends in the orchestras. So I think that part kind of grows slowly and I know what it is. I kind of have an idea of what should be done kind of learned it by doing throughout. And of course in college, the internship I did at the China National Premier Center even though as a writer for them for the magazine we had a summer series to produce a series of concerts in there on the stage outside of the concert halls in the common area. It was done by our orchestra. So coordinate schedules and what are the programs and okay conductor, what is your need and who have enough time in the summer vacation who are still in Beijing to do it. So I think the producers work. I didn't know that the producers work, of course not. But then it just learned by doing and at Lincoln Center Festival, I did it twice in 2013 and 14 as a company management assistant, which is all about scheduling, keep up in the schedule and personal interaction with different artists, different genres of artists. The musicians need something different from the dancers, from the theater people. And all of them have to deal with international flight that's really long and take a day off what they need backstage, what they need on the day of performance, what are the events like after the show and take them out after the first show for a party. So a lot of those, that was, I would say I did get started on quite a high requirement of the quality of work at Lincoln Center. I'm still grateful for my group there. A lot of them still keep in touch and actually in collaboration last year we had a program for opera that came through my old box, my first loss ever. So I'm very grateful for that, for that experience. I think learning by doing is a lot of what producers, how the producers learn on their jobs. And my graduate education in arts administration at Indiana University, I would say, gave me a really great overlook and framework of what is a nonprofit goal or mission that I need to think about when throughout the planning phase of when we want to do something and how the management is done in a way that's efficient and benefits the mission at all times. I think that gave me a really good brain structure and a very fruitful brain framework to be able to do my work right. I think I kind of direct the question further down the path, but yeah, to answer your short I think learning by doing. Yeah, no, I got you, I got you. I can relate to that so much. There's two things that's so reassuring for me. First is I started out doing lots of the, in front of laptop, organizing, scheduling, purchasing stuff, not knowing that it's called producing. And then afterwards I had people tell me, hey, that's producing. I was like, wow, really. And second thing is that, like me, I was just mentioning that I'm about to graduate college. And I wonder like, was for a producer, how can an MA, an MFA program in the arts administration theater producing push you forward down into that lane? Cause there's no theater producing administration, at least for my knowledge, like level of undergrad work in college level. So I think like now, right now thinking about it, I'm like an MFA in theater producing. It's definitely like something that can, you know, grab your thing you're doing. Yeah. So I wonder, have things changed since you take over the steering wheel? Have they been solved? There was definitely a graduate change. A lot of the performing, performance tours we managed and the clients were collaborators we still worked with and the slowly less projects, naturally kind of a little bit less of that, but have your exercise on the education outreach on both sides, but especially in China. And first of all, all the performance tours, professional tours in the past has always been that case, but now a heavier emphasis on every tour needs to be having an education lag in the other universities, which is part of it at a lot of times, but also schools and migrant children's schools. We started a collaboration with a local foundation in China. They have been supporting arts education in the migrant children's school for years. And so we came in actually as a program partner to provide more content for them, artists performances in the schools. We had a jazz concert for like, I think about 2,000 kids outside of Beijing and in Hubei to our restrives into a very different landscape from Beijing to perform there. And that kind of activities in the past has always been part of engagement. And that's what allows artists, not just the students or the young people in China to experience something they have not been able to access a lot of times, but of in-person contact, face-to-face to see an artist in action, what it is like to have someone performing for you on the stage right in front of you, especially for the migrant children, they don't, a lot of their families don't have access or awareness of this can be part of their education where experiences growing up, but also for the artists to be able to go somewhere that they've never thought about, oh, that's also part of China, that's not Shanghai or Beijing, the big metropolitan areas, the huge metro like the development or the modern cities, but there are something different. I think that that also came from my background when I was still in college doing the volunteer work for the children kind of carries through in there. So Ping Pong in the past two years, we have much more of that. We started a structure to work with producers that they don't have to join Ping Pong as full-time producers, they can bring in projects and lead projects themselves and the existing members can come in and support them with strategy-making and reaching out using our networks. So that's still in-build and here, I see a lot of attendees here who are the producers and interested in learning more. So Ping Pong, we are still building that. We want to work with more independent producers to work on different things together who are into the beginning of their careers and want more experiences. And I guess do the producing work right in more quality, like thinking for the quality and the mission, why you do it and who are you benefiting to kind of train the brain of producers together. So this is what Ping Pong is into in these two years as well. Which is actually also an existing program in the past. We have worked with Australian Council for the Arts and Singapore National Art Council to host producers from other countries in China to have that experience. Now, I think, why not focus on more of the younger bilingual Chinese producers as well. So yeah. So I would say these are the two major, I wouldn't say a shift, but we're strengthening this more. That's incredible. I, you know, something I'm really, really excited about is that I've never seen or heard, I know fellowships that are dedicated for theater leaders, administrators. But none of them, I don't think have ever heard any dedicated to creating experiences for producers. Especially this whole idea of early career, young producers, people constantly have this notion of if you are a producer, you have to be experienced. You have to, you need to have a lot of connection. You might be in the industry for a very long time that you are a producer. That's an interesting idea as well. I would say, I would say producing is the mindset it's a learning curve. I think a lot of my personal mentors who agree with me as well, it is a curve of learning that it's a lifetime learning. You have, there's always things to learn, something new I'm willing to do when you are a producer. So, and why not start it young and fresh and just do it when you're interested and want to join this kind of an army of producers. Right, and that's the whole framework of this. What are we, why are we sitting here together? It's me thinking that maybe there needs to be a space for young producers. And I actually used the words like young producers. So that's what we're here. So thank you all so much for being here, our young producers, so excited to work together. And another aspect that I wanna talk about is that I hear that a huge part of, well, I guess the change that you brought to Ping Pong since you took over is that you reinforce the community engagement, the education aspects of the work that you were able to bring to places. And I think that is incredible. And something that I was so intrigued when you first told me is that when you brought the tour of Disgrace to China and how you were able to do amazing community engagement along, around that production and having talks in college, high schools and having conversations with the teachers, instructors have been able to teach that script in class. And at the same time, having them watch the production. Can you tell us a little bit more on that? Yeah, of course. Yeah. I also want to come back and say, Ping Pong, from the beginning when it was set up, when I was set it up, it's always been a side-by-side education and performance in both ways. Other is for international artists going to China or Chinese artists going elsewhere. It's always been a parallel, a lot of people will say, oh, you guys do a lot of things, many things that are seemingly different from each other, but we see it as an integral part to each other because understanding in a certain depth and keeping it growing, it's a process. It's not just, oh, I go in there and see a show and then maybe forget about it the next day. So that's not what Ping Pong does. Okay, come back to this, Grace, and exactly to this kind of a mindset. If you don't know about the plays, someone on the call, so it is a blizzard-winning playwright, Ayak Akhtar, a Pakistani-American. He wrote a play about a Pakistani lawyer living in New York, going through his life of being mistreated and misunderstood as a person post 9-11. And throughout this, I think the story span is around several months that he was involved in the legal case, and then was accused of supporting terrorism, which he was not, and he had a crisis with his wife. And the main part of the play is around a dinner party between a Pakistani-American, which is himself, his wife, which is a Caucasian, and his colleague, which is an African-American female, and the colleague's husband, which is a Caucasian Jewish. So just hearing this, it's very, I would say, even stereotypical American political theater play about race, about racial relationship, which seemingly is very far from what a Chinese audience would be into or immediately understand. Our thought is a please-winning play, and we love, all of everyone on team of Ping Pong love that play, but we immediately realize we have to give enough cultural background for whoever come into the theater or come across this play to understand what it is, because in the play, there are also violence involved and it makes, Amir, the protagonist look really, really bad, but clearly we also want people to feel the sympathy for the protagonist, so how to really balance all of this. We took a long time to really discuss around it, what is the right way and what is the way to make kids communicate what we think the playwright want to communicate to an audience who not necessarily are familiar with this kind of cultural background. As a result, our first tour of the play was a tour in the universities and high schools, basically alone, only in the university and high schools, with advanced study materials in the either their English class or their club or their theater club in the universities. And when it is possible, the English teachers or professors will share the script with the students in advance, sometimes even at the beginning of the semester and make it part of the reading materials they have in the school. And then by the time that we get to, and we put together a cast, invited director, Tim Douglas actually is a professor at Emerson College now and a group of really incredible off-roadway and Broadway in New York, and then most of them are in New York, one is on the West Coast actors. Tim helped us put together as well to do a tour in those schools and universities. So by the time these real actors are in their, either in their classroom or in their 1,000 student hall and the people of student hall, they have already read the script and understand, and there is a teacher's package. They understand the cultural background, they know what this play is about and then see it live. So that's a whole rounded experience of understanding it from a cultural perspective, not just from a plus a theoretical perspective. So that was a very conscious decision to make it accessible in the most well-rounded way that we can possibly arrange. I think the whole program took us about really close to two years to discuss about it and then get funding to support it because going to schools and universities, it's definitely not the professional players, the ping-pong carries the fee and the payment to the artists and the costs. And we do some share costs with our hosts as well, definitely and all of them are excited and supportive. So it was, I think eight cities and 13 institutions that we went to for the first one. And then the second year, we came back to and did professional performance in Shanghai. So yeah, I'm so proud of that like touring that in the whole project. Because I frankly knew the project before I got to know you. And then it was like, I got to know who- You had a discussion. Yeah, all of this. And I wonder, since you were talking about like the funding for this project specifically because it's performing in universities and education institutions, high schools and the funding for this maybe came in a little differently. I wonder like as a global presenting institution, presenting work, like lifting work here in the U.S. like take it to China, lifting work from China, take it to the U.S. What are, how do you approach funders and how do you like, how do you find the appropriate funding strategies for the project you're working with? That is a good question. For us, each project is quite different. There are different foundations and sometimes we need to talk to corporations and individuals for the this quest for there were incredible individuals just come in make donations into making that happen and without them it's impossible. So I think it's always when it comes to fundraising it's always about finding the common ground that you have with someone who potentially want to make it happen as well and support you to do it together. It's either for a performance program like this or raising fund for PPE for the personal product equipment. When there's a need, there is urgency make people to feel I have the urgency to help you help it happen. So it helps me to realize what me alone is not able to do. So I think that comes back to the mindset of producers how important it is to be able to communicate a common value that people will agree with each other. It's not just about come help me it's about we want to do this together. So that's I would say a lot of these projects happen in this way. And that's why when it comes to funding support Ping Pong goes to different resources sometimes government agencies as well and foundations, public institutions who want to host the events and do cost shares and pay for a fee. And yeah, anyone we can think of and when it's an incredible project that we want to promote the common understanding between the different cultures and people they always come down to that. Yeah, yeah. So I wonder speaking of that what are some of the things when you're looking for when you are using your projects? So this is like going a bit back to this whole mindset. What are some of the things you look for like qualities when you look for either you go on the just like follow your impulse way have like a logic or like a grid that in your mind then when you're looking at projects you want to work with. Definitely something a little bit hard to really give a guideline. These are the things we look and those are the ones we not it's never like that. But the qualities we look for apart from the integrity which I believe a lot of the work shown to people need to have integrity and the kind of the quality. So people, if we say what art can bring to people I would say it's wisdom and compassion. So a good art need to have. So that's why we look at the integrity and at the same time it brings something that we feel where we know that a lot of other people or in the certain communities haven't seen yet. It kind of helps them to break through a certain stereotype a stereotypical idea of for example maybe a lot of the Chinese companies that are internationally are acrobatics or very traditional works or larger productions maybe but when Ping Pong works with Chinese artists who make their works it's contemporary it's a lot of times challenging it can be as contemporary as anyone you can think of that come from Europe or off Broadway in New York. So those are the work and off really good quality that are sought through by a lot of the festivals and presenters worldwide. So those are the works we really like to collaborate. Yeah. That's wonderful. I always call, sometimes I call producer dreamers in the industry, you know and I wonder on top of all that wonderful project those wonderful projects what is your absolute dream project as a producer? Oh boy. Okay I would say this Grace was one of them when I saw the work first in New York I knew even sitting in the audience now I look back I was thinking oh I wish the Chinese audience could see this could be sitting next to me and all see this work that really bring out the vulnerability of someone fighting for identity that's not just himself and also a cultural identity so I think that was something that I felt really strong for myself at that moment. So I would say my dream projects are going to be something like this, like this Grace when I feel the really strong personal connection with the work whenever and wherever I see it I'm able to realize it through certain way either it's a work you know hasn't been made yet as a producer and working with artists and hearing an artist pitching an idea get excited with artists together and gather co-commissions and make things realize so I think I want to say I'm I also see myself pretty much as young producers still if you look at people how many years they can work in this industry they can work until their 70s when they are in their 70s or 80s some yeah I had a professor at Indiana University who used to be one of the very early festival director and I think in Adelaide Adelaide festival in Australia and he was still teaching our classes at 70 years old and just yeah right those are the people I really admire and I hope the so-called dream projects will keep coming to me where I keep finding them across the globe and throughout the years that I'm able to be alive yeah totally like I feel like dream projects sometimes you maybe maybe you have like things that you love and also like running into artists that are able to you know just turn this into like whatever medium they have in their hand whether it's dance whether it's music whether it's theater and then you two come together and becomes the dream project and then afterwards and you come back and be like wow that was the dream project yeah good yeah yeah now I was going to say I think for me the producer's role is a lot of times and always about empowering the artistic vision of artists what they see possible and sometimes come in as a resource and the power to help them see it further I see this is possible but maybe we can do more than just this so throughout this process to work it out together I see this is the role of what the producer is able to do and I definitely see it as a supportive role for everyone when it comes to not just the artist and when there is a team there's a technical director there is a company manager there are a lot of different roles in the team in that cohort and the producer should be kind of the glue in there but also occasionally knock on the door and hey guys there is something else as well kind of make the contribution on the side but not not stealing from anyone else so that's what I see the producer's key role is I absolutely agree so for those of you are joining us on zoom or either on Facebook I have one more question from on tone and if you have any questions we're going to open up the floor after this so that it's not only just me talking so since we are already touching on this a little bit what is in your opinion what are the essential skills for the producer and how to improve I would say in my directing class coming to this term called the director's craft an artist's craft what do you think is a producer's craft wow I actually do have some notes for this because I saw the question it's a great question I did touch on this a little bit I think first of all is the willingness and the ability to really virtually learn anything that you might come through and willing to do it I will have some examples to give when you see there is a hole I have to fit in here right now when a show is happening where it's about to happen that the producer really is the person willing to jump in it any role sometimes even just screw a chair together when the chairs need to be fixed in the theatre the willingness to be anyone and I think it requires a certain ability to be a very calm and confident person that kind of it's the kind of the vibe and the power that people know I can rely on you on solving problems even though inside or the interview is like panicking what am I going to do but on the surface when there is other emergency or crisis the producer you really need to be the person that's really calm and able to make the best call for everyone in the team kind of like a mom through a lot of sense and another thing the ability to listen and share to truly listen and share very open to everything so that's in the process of when helping getting the helping has to your artist and to the presenter or to anyone else in one project to be that person that's solving the problem but also at the same time listening to everyone's need in there I think it's a kind of a skill that comes very handy solving problems I know there are a lot of other skills and really practical ones like raising the money basically anything I don't even know how to so at first I don't think I even consider myself as a producer and more recently I start to use the term I'm a producer at first I felt like I'm a touring manager I'm a production manager I'm a translator and I'm not a fundraiser for some projects but a producer is a kind of all of those and more I know is growing I don't know, I don't know if other producers agree with me yeah I had a I have a drama teacher who once told me that I need to work on my writing you need to write for grants you really have to work on your writing I was like you know me so much you just grappled the core of me you need to write for grants therefore you need to write I feel like this all come back to being able to respond to the community's need the need is definitely a huge part of the essential skill of a producer so thank you so much for wrapping that up perfectly it seems like we have a question for a writer in the room so thank you so much this question is in Chinese thank you so much for sharing thank you so much for sharing a question is what are the plays that you are reading what are doing this whole quarantine the lockdown month for me I think you should share first more likely that are reading plays I'm watching nothing I basically read plays sometimes mainly for my classes but right now I'm learning to read beyond the class trajectory but yeah one play that I've been reading I've been reading a lot of short play collections I've been looking for short play collections especially short play collections by Asian American writers looking at my next project and one play that I recommend is this play called The Children by Lucy Kirkwood it's called The Children it's a brilliant one act it's a speak easy stage company at Boston right before everything was cancelled so it's a brilliant play and I also write so I honestly think that is a wonderful example of how like sometimes we call like a play so well written we call it so tight and it's also about it's also written on the backdrop of the environmental crisis so I'm not going to spoil it for you but if you want to read it it's called The Children by Lucy Kirkwood Lucy Kirkwood is a British writer so that's one play that I recommend I just wrote it down can you share a Netflix series? there you go I do have a share on the Netflix series there is one called Unorthodox it's only for episodes for a story that's based in Williamsburg New York I'm not going to spoil it but it's about a young lady who escaped from a really traditional community, a Jewish community in Williamsburg escaped to Berlin trying to pursue her dream of being a musician and I think the amount of details of the different cultures in that TV series is incredible and I learned so much I only hear stories of acquaintance what it is like in that community in Williamsburg, a very traditional orthodox community that lived 100 years ago that TV series gave so much more details and one of the more reasons is that during this epidemic the neighborhood I have a close friend who lives there just down the street the community and for her it's not easy to understand why during this shelter in place people still gather for their religious gatherings and not being really aware of where they're aware and it's really important to attend a rabbi's funeral instead of stay home and stay safe I've been trying to understand that I think that series in some way helped me but that's what Netflix is useful it's very artful if you choose wisely what you watch and another thing I started reading I started reading before I started reading in December it's called Land of the Seven Rivers I think it's an old book I need to keep reading it I pause for a little bit now it's about the geographical history of India the reason I'm looking at this is more and more thinking of Western very binary way of looking at the world it's still quite much I think China a little bit less so maybe but still quite the mainstream of how people see the world today this is the modern world, this is the east, this is the west but it's actually not and what are the wisdoms that are from the history of through this kind of book so I'm getting a lot of inspiration from this yeah and before that I'm just hearing a lot of books I'm reading before that I highly recommend is Chinese writer Xu Zhuo Yun he was a professor in Taiwan he wrote incredible books about cultural history of Chinese culture I say it's the art and cultural history because he writes a perspective of history not from the perspective of states and the emperors and the changes of the power from individuals the commoners what is like how do you see history through some stories that have so many different versions in different regions of China that are shared throughout their generations and what it says about the culture the history of culture of China I've read some of his books in the past I started reading last year how do you recommend thank you so much for sharing that I'm constantly looking for book recommendations any of you joining us on zoom have any book recommendations totally open to it in three days I will have absolutely nothing to do with my life I feel like I have one last question this is something you were just talking about about your books and I feel like this is very relevant this is a good bomb dropping in this conversation I think a lot of people differentiate trans-cultural theater and the diverse voice on stage that directly speaks to racial and a lot of the work that trans-stage does is to make efforts in blurring that fine line between trans-cultural theater theater from another country, theater in another language and theater that speaks to racial tension like working closely in the U.S. and China at the same time how do you envision like a cross point between the two that's basically they're produced very differently how do you envision this this is interesting I had an original thought when I saw the question I think the to think really theater is about theater and it's about sharing so that everyone in the theater, either the performers or director probably could write themselves and the audience have a shared experience to understand something to be empathetic and sympathetic of something more after seeing or experiencing this play so there is no I don't think the purpose of such a distinguish of like this is a this is a foreign play this is a diverse voice on stage I think diverse voice on stage determines acknowledging that it's not diverse enough which is true I'll give an example, again Tim Douglas the director of this plays that we work with in China in a talk back with the audience he once said about when especially in the state he felt when there is a person of color being on stage automatically a lot of the audience assume it is about racial relationship it is about the race yep but why I guess actors are on the stage because it's about the theater it's about the play itself it's not about the race but I see this grace to play itself actually it has different actors different skin of color color of the skins and it is essentially you can say it is a play about differences I think this is a process that how this topic is argued about and how to slowly make people realize why I am in this topic and understanding it actually touring international work it's never about diverse voice on stage even though I would have to say some of the programs that when we bring for example Chinese work either a dance or theater or probably music I think stays a little bit more maybe it's seen as something that's adding to the diversity of what is seen on the stage but it only says that it's not enough diversity this diversity you need to work up on doing more of these things but I definitely see it as action process and it's not just about the diversity it's actually about the play where the works are in itself what you are trying to communicate theater is political where art itself is political but being political is not a purpose I think it's just a tool it's a way of communicating what actually is in the artwork itself that's my perspective it's too layered to that conversation because I feel like one part of this is as a producer recognizing what's the core message of a piece and then work around the center message of it and then identify your producer strategy according to that message you're looking at a presenting institution that you have a space you're looking at your lineup you're looking at the programming you want to do this year looking at your season lineup it's also important to differentiate well I guess what level is knowing that all work is calling for a universal understanding of humanity if you are a wide institution and you're looking for diverse voice on stage if you're bringing a piece of work from China and you call it diverse voice on stage is that a legit answer to what you were looking for I think that's a whole other conversation to have oh wow I got you we are okay for us to talk about disruptive topics yeah so I that is all of my questions thank you so much thank you those are my burning questions so I guess thank you for joining me today it was truly wonderful to hear from you and I really appreciate your thoughts and answers and being able to hear your insights with me sharing your insights with me and with all of us it means a lot to a lot of people to be in conversation with you and I want to thank our theater comments for live streaming this event and they are extremely resourceful for artists at all stages of their career so next up we are transitioning everything to podcasts with renowned theater makers from China and just a sneak peek of who we will be speaking to we have a playwright who wrote Mr. Donkey and the other works in Chinese that people are very familiar with and we are also talking to who is the founder of the drama giving us their take as a theater maker on art making during this pandemic so definitely stay tuned for that so thank you all again so much for joining us today and best of luck on all of the projects and I want you to know that a lot of what you do is making impact making different kinds of impact on this world and we will continue to be so so thank you so to folks who are joining us on Zoom how around the Facebook today stay safe watch a lot of TV, read a lot of books donate to your favorite theaters donate to your favorite artists drink a lot of water stay at home so positive love to you all wherever you are thank you so much and we will see you next time thank you have a wonderful evening thank you