 Welcome everybody back here to the Martin E. Siegel Cedar Center at the Graduate Center CUNY in Midtown Manhattan. It's another day on planet Earth. We have a wild weather here. It's 1500 flights have been canceled, blood warmings, people drowned even in the Hudson Valley, if we understand right. And it's a big chaos, but it admits that a big storm. There are always things that help us to focus and to look forward to the future. And I think theater art is part of it. And we have today, I think an important conversation on how well and we would like to thank how long for hosting us. We have with us today. Hallie and Marcus from the University of Hawaii. They are here with us from the theater program. And it's a great honor to have them with us here and we're going to talk about new initiatives that come from that for a very long time before it became fashionable before people realize the real importance of indigenous studies have been taken serious well fostered supported and and also created so it is the University of Hawaii at Manoa. And both of them in the heart as theater people so highly, maybe we'll start with you tell us a little bit. Who are you where you're coming from and how come you ended up at that theater program. Belina make a lot of in our whole a launa pool Anna market here. Vicky oh hi hey Zui. Mahalia how round Mahalia Frank Mahalia Marcus. Yeah, I love him I know Kako my Hawaii. I keep it all cool. Thank you all Frank my Europa. I pay up who may Marcus my America my New York. No money. I know wow. Hey, why he can my he may come out. I may come out. I know. Okay. No, honey. Oh, no. No, no. I can never. Good morning everyone. Thank you for this opportunity to join and share about our program and share about our work as creatives and academics, living here in Hawaii. I hail from the island of Kawaii, and I'm currently now located in Kahalu'u, which is on is on the island of Oahu nearby the ancestral lands of my mother, my grandmother, and many generations before that. So thank you, Frank, for this invitation and opportunity to share about our work and Mahalo'u and Marcus for pulling me into this opportunity and this conversation. I am a Kanaka Maori theater artist. Forgive the voice. It's about six something here in Hawaii. Try to get up and move around and move the voice a little bit but it's just a little bit rusty I think. I'm currently the director of the Hawaiian theater program at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. I did get my start in former theater training on the island of Kawaii where I'm from at the Kawaii Performing Arts Center, and then moved on to the university for schooling. Tell us a bit what is this theater training what did you do and how did you get inspired to do theater. So when I was a freshman in high school. There was an initiative throughout the state of Hawaii across the island chain and the first two programs to open up it was for high school students, formal training in Euro-American theater. We did musicals and plays and this the first center on Oahu was at Kaimuki and the first center in Kawaii was a tri school performing arts center. So we have three high schools on the island, Kapa'a, Kawaii, and Waimea High School, and there were auditions and they put they pulled together about 20 of us from across the island. And we had programming every day after school and would work towards production. And so I think that was my entry point into Western theater, Euro-American theater. Prior to that, I was a hula dancer and was raised culturally in different styles of performance, storytelling and hula, and then went on into this kind of training. And that found me at junior and high school at a statewide program called the summer program for the enhancement of basic education at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. That was something that made me think Hawaii might be a place I might stay. Prior to that, I had my eyes set on moving to America and I guess joining the many hopefuls in New York and, you know, attempting to make a career there as a performing artist. The University of Hawaii at Manoa though opened my eyes to another area, another discipline that would really pull me back into reconnecting with my culture and my ancestors. And that was the Hawaiian language program. As a freshman, through, yeah, I should mention the college opportunities program, which made college possible for me as well. It's a program for minority retention students that would not otherwise make it into UH Manoa. And completing that program, there was a provisional acceptance into Manoa. And after the first year of being a successful student, you received your official letter of acceptance to Manoa. So, as a freshman, sorry, there's a lot of backstory here. As a freshman, I was taking theater because I already knew I wanted to do theater and had had that previous summer at Kennedy Theater, where we took classes and we put three productions on. And I felt like that could be a home for further learning and development of the craft. And then I started taking Hawaiian language, and things just started to open up. And a language I had heard in my youth from my great aunt and in my community, in my church, those things started to come back to me. And I started to realize how important it was for me to become a fluent speaker and how learning the language had started to unlock understanding. And it started to kind of help me understand the past, understand the choices my grandparents had made, as well as the conditions that my parents were living in. You know, the Hawaii of military occupation, the Hawaii of displacement, the Hawaii of settler colonialism. All of these, these learnings in language I think helped to inform me of the importance of my culture and my language and the severance that there was from my grandparents' generation with language and how that was so much linked to who they were as a people. And processing that, you know, I felt a turning point around the fourth year that I was in college, and it took me about six years to get my bachelor's degrees. But there was a turning point because prior to me really getting into language, there was a sense of assimilation. You know, I really wanted to be the Euro American theater practitioner. I really wanted to, you know, be performing in all these plays that really weren't of my culture. And then it was my senior year that I went after doing a senior thesis. And then your thesis kind of propelled me into playwriting and writing a play in Olalo Hawaii in the Hawaiian language. I wanted to direct something. So this is a long story. I wanted to direct something in Olalo Hawaii to have something in the space at Kennedy Theater that would represent Hawaii. That would represent the deep history that I was starting to understand that I came from and putting those pieces together. Prior to that, there was really nothing happening in the space happening in the department that represented who I was, the place I came from, and the place I was studying in. I was home, but everything was foreign. I appreciated the learning. I appreciated the exposure to the many types of Asian theater, as well as the Euro American theater I was learning, but nowhere did I find a space that was represented a representative of me. And so, um, you know, writing and directing and producing Kalui Koalau Ke Ka E A E O Napoli Kalalau in 1995 was a way that I think my ancestors set me on that path. I had not anticipated what was going to come after that. I just knew that we needed to do this. We needed to tell our stories, put our Mo Olalo on stage. And the group that was involved in that, my friends at that time, we were all Hawaiian language learners. We were conversational working towards fluency, and the theater then Hanakeaka then was a means for us to live in the language. It was a means for us to further our fluency and our acquisition of the language and living in these Mo Olalo gave us something to kind of bring us together in community and kind of gravity galvanized our desire to make some shifts and changes in Hawaii and in the representation of who we are on stage. And so that's my personal story. What was the play about what you wrote your first play that was such a change in your life. So that that play was a story of Kalui Koalau Koalau, who many had listed as the Hawaiian outlaw. He was for us a hero in 1892 he and we should have probably have given up a brief history of Hawaii. I'm going to do it in this story. So Kalui Koalau he was a Paniolo he was a cowboy. He was also a sharp shooter, a ranch hand, if you will, on the island of Kauai. It's a story that I grew up with. It's a story that one of my early Kumar teachers was a part of a band that did a song called the Nepali outlaw. And so this song is something that I grew up with and then when I was taking Hawaiian language fourth year, we had read the story. The story of Kalui Koalau's life penned by his wife P Ilani. And so his story, he's one of the many. Kanaka Maui, who were inflicted with Hansen's disease or leprosy. And what happened. Around the time of the overthrow is that the provisional government, the illegal provisional government tried to separate the Kanaka with leprosy from the rest of the community. And Koalau was one of those that they wanted to ship off to the island of Molokai. And many will know a Father Damien story and Kalaupapa in that settlement. And them trying to treat those inflicted with what we called Maipake. In Koalau's journey. He refuses to be separated from his wife and child and family. And then he flees with his family to Kalalo, the provisional government go after him. And then try to assassinate him for being sick and not complying to the provisional government's rule in 1892, which is months before the overthrow. In the fall of 1892, and January 1893, the provisional government overthrows our kingdom. So, Koalau, you know, states when he when they try to get him he states, you know, my wife and I took this bond that you introduced to us with your religion. And it stated, you know, in this holy matrimony that we will not be separated. Yeah, it's until death do us part. And here you are trying to separate us. I'm going to live out my life. And so, for many of us, he is one of the early resistors, right? One of the early heroes who eventually succumbs to the disease with his son as well. And his wife buries Koalau and her son. And when she returns to Keikawa Kawaii, she's arrested for harboring a fugitive. Eventually, she is released. And that's when Kahikina Sheldon from the one of the newspapers comes over to Kawaii and has her pen her story. And this lives on in our huge repository of Hawaiian language newspapers. So that story. Great. Great. And just very briefly, what was the story the Western story when you went to the theater program in your high school, you said I was interested what was that story where you were in what play. So, while I was in the, the university or whenever your first Western, as you said, oh, my first Western play, we did Carol Burnett sketches. Yeah, just, you know, incredible to think of the difference of contest and context. Fantastic. Listen, thank you so much. Highly for sharing. Let's go to Marcus. Marcus, you are a professor, actually the chair of the department of the university. And you are the overlock history curriculum theater productions research and department of theater and dance. So tell us a little bit about that university and the very special place it is. So, so let me just kind of say, so my, my CV really kind of in a nutshell set from Germany originally Frank and I, both alums of the Institute for applied theater studies at the University of Houston in Germany. I was a student there from 1986 to 1991, then an assistant professor at that same institute until 1997 for one year postdoc at the University of University of Queensland in Brisbane where was really for the first time introduced in those canonical studies. I was then an adjunct at various theater departments in New York City, until 2001 and have been a professor at the University of Hawaii at Manoa since 2001. And I would say, you know, in the chair for the last four years. I really would say that our department is a very unusual department, probably one of the few departments really in North America that has that that is really kind of known for its non Western focus. Since the 1960s, our department basically has established a reputation, not just for Asian theater research, but also more or less kind of annual, fully produced Asian theater productions mostly from Japan, China, Indonesia, Beijing, Beijing, Aparah, Kabuki, Noki, Yogan, Rundai, Waiyang, Listrik, Waiyang, Kulit. But when I came in in 2001, what kind of struck me at that time was that the entire faculty was white, which actually wasn't necessarily the case for other departments at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. And even though, of course, we had this reputation for doing, you know, for reducing particularly, you know, Asian plays and of course our dance program also offers and always offered a broad range of dance traditions also from, you know, Oceania. It's really only since the professorship for Hana Kiaka was kind of created actually in 2012 that we saw kind of a major change. I mean, it was the first time that basically our department really served the host culture and community. And also since 2012 our department, our faculty has become more diverse. Now, in 2023, a third of our faculty are actually people of color. So, and that's really only something that started with highly higher in fall of 2012. So there's been kind of a major, major shift, particularly to embrace the notion as it's called here at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, of becoming a, you know, a place of native Hawaiian learning. And our Hana Kiaka program is kind of a key aspect of this kind of strategic mission. Tell me a little bit. I know you are, you are a Richard Forman researcher. I know you're close to work of Hana Miller. You are there actually even now since five years. I think that's a really good question that all that happened really kind of very gradually. I remember in the mid 1990s, when I was still an assistant professor at the University of Hawaii. I think that's a really good question that all that happened really kind of very gradually. I remember in the mid 1990s, when I was still an assistant professor at Giesen, we brought in a production from Australia by a playwright and director Norman Price, and he kind of presented a play that he had written himself. And it featured an Australian Aboriginal actress in that, in that production. And that was probably the first kind of indigenous semi-indigenous because was still scripted by a white Australian guy. There was kind of my first encounter basically with, you know, indigenous performance traditions. I was a, when it was a postdoc at the University of Queensland, I at the English Department, which was also their kind of theater program in many ways. I didn't actually know that they were kind of a pioneering department with regard to performance, with regard to postcolonial studies. But I learned a lot during that, during that one year about this approach. I was also involved in a devising, devised theater workshop of a production by the Brisbane Project. I was also involved in the production of a production by the Brisbane-based Aboriginal theater company Co-Ember Gidara. And this device piece exclusively featured an Aboriginal cast, artistic director, associate playwright, but it also involved two white dramaturgy assistants, including myself. At the beginning of that process. And I remember still very strongly my surprise when one of the major rules that was established in rehearsals was that the two white participants could only contribute to the discussion once everyone else in the cast had basically had their say. And at that point in 1997, 1998, this was quite baffling to me, because I really didn't understand the cultural context at all at that point. I've only, you know, I mean, I've only come to appreciate this notion kind of much, much later actually after moving to Hawaii. What was also interesting when I was involved with this Co-Ember Gidara production was there was this extreme skepticism towards me as someone as a white academic who might write about their work to establish my career as an academic and predominantly kind of white academia. So I actually didn't, I didn't really go, they didn't actually write about this experience. So you could have written but you didn't. Yeah, I didn't. No, I didn't. And then you went to Hawaii. How, how did you encounter it? Then I think you went in and and you teach, I don't know, you were hired to teach a theater history, I guess. So how did that work? So when I came in, so one of the courses I inherited was Theater 101, Introduction to World Drama and Theater, and I inherited a syllabus that had been taught by my predecessor. I really didn't have much time to actually prepare this class. I tried to make the most of what had been handed to me. And one of the syllabi one of the 50 minute lectures was on Hawaii on on Hula and Hawaiian Theater. And I had so I had the syllabus, they had the lecture guide, I had, you know, video clips that had been handed to me. And I literally had just been in Hawaii for six or seven weeks when I gave this lecture. This was in our 600 seat theater main stage Kennedy Theater 140 students seven teaching assistants and 10 minutes into my lecture. An angry student gets up from the last row of the theater and starts approaching me who was, you know, center stage, quite aggressively yelling at me, you know, kind of implying that this was kind of an imperialist kind of take over of Hawaiian culture. The TAs who knew that I was not familiar with the situation formed this kind of security protective cordon around me. And so turned out that the student was quite well known, I would say kind of Hawaiian activists within the student community at that point. So, and again, this was kind of an interesting learning experience, because it really, of course, shouldn't have given that lecture just, you know, after arriving in Hawaii only six weeks earlier kind of inheriting this kind of course material. So I and the the 70 A's then had to go through kind of sensitivity training and for a while, I really, you know, my, I was more of the opinion, you know, I am not going to touch Hawaiian issues or cultures with a 10 foot pole. But this kind of changed, because highly then gave these 50 minute introductions to Hawaiian theater regularly. Our daughter actually joined a Halao, so a hula school you might perhaps kind of translated that way, and participated in that that for kind of five or six years. And it's basically because of that kind of connection and also kind of seeing actually highly opposed work that you also kind of talked about like the production that you kind of introduced earlier made me kind of reassess, you know, the situation and of course, by, I always felt that Hawaiian people were seriously screwed by, you know, American business interests, you know, political maneuverings. And I organized, so in 2010 I organized an international brecht conference in and Asia at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, and and Heidi poor gave this really excellent welcoming speech from a Hawaiian sovereignty perspective, and the kumo of our daughters. And Halao actually performed a welcoming hula. And so even so, that's where perhaps also my, my political. Yeah, that activists who kind of gave you a wake up call you took it serious and that training did that work. Or did it offend you how did it because you know this is a big question how do we. Of course, this was, you know, it was actually really a stupid thing to do. The sensitivity to training was kind of ridiculous because there was only one office to to deal with harassment that was the sexual harassment office so the sensitivity training was related to that, not really to, you know, not even the importance on it. But how did it change and how come you go from a European professor highly rated comes and gives a lecture within two weeks as a specialist to having a third faculty of color or native I don't know exactly what the But how did that change happen it's astonishing. So we had this really. This really interesting kind of visionary chancellor. You know, around 2009 2000. No, I mean, you know, kind of a decade ago. And for one year she pulled all vacant professorships vacant because of recent retirements and asked departments to to apply for the for these positions with a special focus either on sustainability, or Hawaiian related. And that's basically when I was actually the person to write the proposal for for this Hanaka position and it was approved it was actually one of several culture changing new professorships at our campus. I really have to say, you know, I just kind of talked about her work but but what we really incredible is that she, she only came in as an assistant professor of Hanaka in fall 2012. And in May last year the Kennedy Center in Washington DC already awarded her the medallion of excellence for having built this this really impressive. program, not, you know, which which has been so fundamentally important for our community, and particularly, particularly, particularly of course the Hawaiian community but I mean that's that's the other thing the that and when when how you produce the first her first major main stage production called the echo by in 2015. There was an interesting discussion among theater faculty, because everyone worried that a production, exclusively in Ollello Hawaii and the Hawaiian language without English super titles would not fill the house. I really kind of put her foot down to just say but Hawaii is an official language of the state of Hawaii. Why would they have to be English super titles. There was a synopsis in the program but the idea was basically that this the focus was really on on the Hawaiian language. This was one of our most sold out performances and performance runs that I ever remember. I don't know two and a half hour to three hour production followed by a curtain call that often lasted for for 72 to 90 minutes because he had different halos in the audience that's 90 90. Yes. Incredible. You know, so you would have different halos in the audience that would kind of, you know, stand up, start to chant people in the audience on stage that they were familiar with some of the chance would kind of join in. Everyone in the halal would take would take a seat again another hollow would kind of get up. And this was really kind of the inauguration, so to speak, of our theater which you can see, you know, behind me on the photo Kennedy Theater really kind of for the first time, putting on a production that really first and foremost surf surf the Hawaiian community, you know, 50 years into its existence. So a change actually we all are looking for a change that was so strongly demanded also when it came here to the mainland to black lives matter we see you why theater that change actually has been demanded by activists at your university change was implemented. Yes, affirmative action pooling all open positions and say they have to be done by native indigenous soil is a radical thing to do, but it worked and it produced something amazing let's go back to am highly tell us a little bit about the program. We created about that theater program this is astonishing of course all to hear this we audience should know they're really great productions are significant big productions also money is poured into it it's not. It's tiny resources often as it is at Columbia University at NYU where I have seen that also works with students as a different level, but tell us a little bit about the work you got the Kennedy Center Medal of Excellence for and congratulations for that it's well deserved and so rare but really all our respect but tell a little bit about about that program. Well, hello, Annui. Yeah, I will kind of jump through a couple of milestones maybe in our timeline as well. Thank you for that. In 2012 I was hired 2014 the MFA track in Hawaiian theater was approved. In 2016, let you come by happened. And then, in 2016. I organized a ha ha ha naka or Hawaiian theater symposium. That was the way that I felt we could have community voices represented and for us to think strategically about where we might want to see this program goal. And that was followed by 2017, our first Hawaiian theater MFA, PC, thesis, and Nakawahi Iaka directed and written by Kau'i Kaina. This means it's on stage a performance is accepted as a thesis. Yes, yes. So it was the first original material and production that was produced in partial fulfillment of the MFA degree. And it was under construction Kennedy was under construction that year. So her production actually happened on the north shore of the island at BYU Hawaii campus, they were very kind to offer their auditorium to us, and that we had a remount and a tour to the island of Hawaii, as well as a remount at Shamanage University. Laie Kauai, I should mention, we did a island wide tour. So we did perform across the archipelago, and that also toured to Oteroa, New Zealand. So around this time, I just might mention that there was a lot of, you know, questioning skepticism, and I kept getting the question of what is Hawaiian theater, what is Hana Kiaka, and I felt the need to educate everyone that I was around and an opportunity presented itself for me to go back to school. And so shortly after putting in my paperwork for tenure and promotion, I applied to a PhD program at the University of Waikato in, in Oteroa, New Zealand, and went ahead and pursued that while teaching, I did receive a sabbatical and that allowed me to finish the doctoral study and my doctoral thesis as well, and finally graduated in 2019. And so over that three year period, I mentored and graduated a student, as well as worked on some other independent projects. And then in 2019, I'll be holding on that particular production was in a way a result of me going back to school. It had me kind of remembering what it was like to learn Hawaiian language, and what it was like learning and digesting our history, and, and strengthening a foundation of understanding through Hawaiian language. That particular production was the second major production of our, our theater and our program featured on the Kennedy main stage. This was also very well attended. And similar to Laie Kauai, there was this engagement with the audience, the audience really shared their appreciation after each performance. And we were also invited to tour this production to New York for the reflections of native voices. That inaugural festival with La Mama Theater, Safe Harbors, and New York Theater Workshop. This might be a time to play that trailer if we want to see the train trailer. Let me see. I'll talk a little bit more about where we also talk over it, you know, if you have comments to it. Let's see if it works. Perfect. You directed that. I wrote and directed this. Yeah. What is it about very briefly. The trailer is going to share exactly what it's about. Okay, so much not any time Marcus. Yes. And as he's pressing play, I will just say that this year we also hired our first graduate assistant for the Hawaiian Theater program. And that allowed for so much more to materialize for the program, a newsletter, our website, and a lot more community outreach. Yeah. Do you see the video or you don't know it's just the window, but no video. I think you still have to play. Let's pray the little triangle is still there. Because could you make me the host just for this one. Let me see. And I can fill here it is here it is. If you just rewind. Okay. You can see it now. Yes, yes, yes. And we can hear it. Awesome. I truly believe that the reason why we do the work we do is so that we remember the stories of our ancestors. And in doing so, we move ourselves forward and we get we gain a greater understanding of who we are as a people. So this particular story deals with four students who are enrolled here at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. They engage with history. They engage with the newspapers. They engage in archival materials and in immersing themselves in the language and in the culture, they're able to kind of unlock knowledge and unlock understanding of texts. And in that understanding process, they each go on a journey. And these particular journeys that happen take them to different times in our history. And those different times in our history are times where there is a shift in mana, a shift in a societal shift where life is different for Kanaka Maui. The entire journey as we follow the students is really about them coming to an understanding of what does it mean to be Kanaka Maui in 2019. Taking part in this production is an honor because I get to experience not only the character as I would in a regular production, but the breath of our ancestors who are embedded in the production, who we are characterizing, who we are portraying to the audience, to the university and really to the whole world. We're really fortunate nowadays to have brilliant Kanaka minds who are thinking very rooted in our culture and looking very far forward. And with looking forward, they're keeping a very firm root in the past. I personally don't feel I was completely in control of this message as the script was being authored. I was following guidance and inspiration for this story to be told. And in weaving all the pieces together, I now understand what that message was meant to be. And I now understand why with all the issues that are converging right now, why this is the time for this particular story to be conveyed. Hopefully it can just strengthen us as a people and strengthen our community whether you're Kanaka Maui or not, whether you were born here or you moved here. Having a base or foundation of understanding of what the history of this land is and its people is the ultimate goal. Education can only make us better people. And if we can open up a doorway for people to walk in, that's the major goal of the work that we're doing. Yeah, that is quite impressive. I know it's an impossible question, but not everyone has seen about or heard about the Hawaiians, Hawaiians theater. We know perhaps a little bit more about Japanese one, maybe a bit about Indian. In a few words, maybe you could let us know highly. And what is that special and what should we look out for and what is the history. Yeah, thank you for that question. So we have a long history of performing where performative people we come from oral tradition. And so from ritual performance to more secular performance. There has always been this need to express ourselves through storytelling. And one of the things that I ended up tackling was research in the newspapers in the large archive that we have of about a million pages of newspapers that were written and produced from 1834, right into the 1940s. And I jumped into that repository to find, well, what were, what was our production history, right? What was Hanakirka? And I was able to identify a couple of different types of performance. So we had something called a tabalo, which were more tabalo performances. We also had operas. We had storytelling or Haimo O'Lello. And we had this idea of a nightly entertainment, very often written about as Kapolea or Halali. Halali was a chief who reigned over the island of Kawaii and Niihau. And he was a lover of the arts, a true patron of the arts. And so when performances were done in the 1800s and advertised or written about in the newspapers, very often we see the headline being Kapolea or Halali even though Halali was from generations before they tend to pay homage to him with the newer productions that they're doing. What I identified was four pillars or kukulu of Hanakirka. And this is something that is true in the contemporary works we're doing. And this is also characteristics in these more traditional forms. So Hanakirka is based on Mo'Olelo. Mo'Olelo are our narratives, our histories and stories. So we'll always find Mo'Olelo at the core. We'll also find Ku'au Hau or our genealogical connections. This is not just between people, but it's with the land, with the environment, as well as with our akua or gods. The third then identifying pillar is Hana Noe'o. And Hana Noe'o are our visual and performing arts. And finally, we have O'Olelo Hawaii, Hawaiian language. So these four kukulu or pillars are present in the old works that was written about as well as our contemporary works. And we've tried to honor Halali'i with some of the work that we're doing. And in having a graduate assistant, I was able to build out a little bit more in our program. And so in 2020, we actually launched a series called Kapole'a or Halali'i, which featured original works from our students. Now, I want to also mention that in 2020, the great pandemic, we were meant to do an island-wide tour of Aia holding on. One of our major goals in the work is to get the work into our communities and not to be O'ahu centric with everything. That's coming from a kawa'i girl who grew up in a rural community that didn't have access to a lot of the things that was happening on our main island on O'ahu. So Kapole'a or Halali'i then becomes a place for qualifying productions for our students. So 2021-2022 season, we actually had two hana'kerka. So 2021, as we were all at home and unable to join in theaters and experience entertainment as we were used to. For Kapole'a or Halali'i, his thesis production was performed on the main stage but was recorded. And for that, we had a very unique opportunity to call upon our kana'ka maoli film-making friends to come in and work with us. The production somewhat straddles film, the media film, and the media of theater. That production went up. And then in the spring, as bookends, Hale'u aloha, Ho'olina, Aki'a kai'ikinas, Ho'olina, then also very different. These were quite different and did push hana'kerka and the practice into the new discoveries of different material and different ways of expression. So that year, we had another hana'kerka that had audience actually for Ho'olina in the spring. We graduated two more MFA's, Ka'ipu and Aki'a in 2022. That's amazing. So you made it through COVID, adapted a very old traditional form to it. Shortly, do you train actors specifically dances for Hawaiians theater? Is that acting, training, dancing, happening in your place? Who does that? Is that university or is that acting schools outside? So our students are coming through the program and taking various types of classes. The Hawaiian acting workshop or Hawaiian performance workshop now that it'll be called is something that I teach. I also draw upon my colleagues in the community as well as at the university. So we have really well respected and esteemed kumu or masters of different forms who teach with us or run workshops for our students to partake in. Probably one of my most favorite collaborators is Kumu Keave Lopez, who's the director of Kauaihuilani Center for Hawaiian Language. He and I go way, way back. We were students at the university at the same time. This area of specialization is music, composition, singing, as well as traditional dance or hula. I might mention that he and his partner, Kumu Tracy Lopez, are the current reigning Mary Monarch competition overall winners with their halo. And they also have the current reigning Miss Aloha Hula title in their halo. So these are just amazing friends and colleagues who collaborate on these productions and make up a quite amazing artistic team. We're coming closer to the end, but if I understood right you guys also or you got a very, very big award right you won a university internally or is it a national grant. So what is that about what are you planning because we know I'll see where is that going. Yes, thank you for that question. So in 2022, a colleague of mine. Dr Lorenzo Parrillo and I, we put in a grant. There was a grant proposal and a call for submissions in the office of our provost for strategic investment initiatives. And we put in a request for to establish a research Institute of indigenous performance, titled, ah, who you know, you know, I'll leave you or I know we did receive this grant. And so we've been working since October very large one right. Yeah, it was a pretty substantial grant. You know, just under $400,000 to establish this research Institute, which has for, I'm sorry, three my RV, or three threads to it. One my RV is the scholarship and publication. The second my RV is archive and curriculum. And the third my RV is recruitment and outreach. And so I know it is working very hard to document the work that has been done, as well as create opportunities for scholarship to happen. We're looking at a conference that's going to happen in March 2020 2024. Sorry. And then we are also doing professional development opportunities and workshops for our Hawaiian immersion teachers in our Department of Education, so that they can learn about Hanukia and take that into the classroom. We're also developing materials for that, and are doing various types of recruitment and outreach across our island chain, as well as into Oceania. We are looking for more grant money because it is a 18 month grant period. And so we're looking for money to sustain our work. One of the most beautiful things about honor is that we wrote into this grant, a number of graduate assistantships. So this helps to finance our students education as they're coming through the program, as well as giving them working hours, that they can further the community outreach and document the work that's happening, as well as participate in the academic research that's happening and the, and the creative research, as well, which are no supports. Incredible. Yeah. I would just like to point out for our listeners, how exceptional this is. Do we see this at the University of Texas at the University of New Mexico is this anywhere in the University of Arizona, anywhere in upstate New York. Is there a serious engagement anywhere on a level like, you know, the University of Hawaii went into of course it has a longer to addition, but some visionary chancellor said we need someone like highly admitted there someone like Marcus said I'll write the proposal for it, we collaborate. He took that wake up call as a call of action. And I think it is stunning what you did is also a place a university can contribute to change it so rarely that actually significant initiatives coming out of university that can change theater at the moment, but it is on the same some it is also unbelievable that this is the only one it is a smaller a part one thing of a smaller state was was probably less resources as a state like a Texas or California or others, or here East Coast. And I think something here is really wrong and something needs to be right and I think what you guys do is a is a great model of Marcus. My question to you how why do you think is there's not happening in other universities, but also, how do you see these productions you used to go to European productions and you know, the performance of this world you know how do you see the aesthetics, the work the money of Hawaiian theater. So let me just say one one thing just to add. So we've had the MFA in Hana Kiaka since fall 2014. But starting this fall, basically next next month, we will also have a new PhD track in Hawaiian and indigenous performance. And just to link to the beginning of your question. I was actually stunned to realize this past year that there isn't a single department in indigenous performance in entire North America there are indigenous studies departments. Not that many either. But basically no departments and that focus specifically on on indigeneity and performance so this will be kind of the first PhD program kind of graduate track with it with that with that particular focus. And it will open next fall. This this fall this how many students. We have to coming to coming. Okay. We're starting this. Incredible. Yes. We're still still needs to to to to to get around. And as far as the style is concerned, I've been very surprised by the diversity of styles that the different productions that Heidi just kind of talked about kind of represent. Like, for example, the beginning of who we lean on, which was really a contemporary comedy, mostly in a little Hawaii but also pigeon English and some and some English was basically about a group of kind of adopted Hawaiian. Adults. The matriarchist kind of passed away and now it's all about who will how will the inheritance be split and an unknown relative relative seemingly very white from the continent kind of arrived so this is kind of farcical comedic elements. What was brilliant about this production was that the different characters, also based on the political affiliations spoke varying degrees of let's say a little Hawaii versus English so of course, you know the the the activist Hawaiian character exclusively spoke Hawaiian and a character perhaps, you know, less in tune with that movement spoke English so there was this kind of the various political positions were also reflected in the language choices the characters made. What was really stunning to me was the beginning of the show, where one actor who also appears in the show appeared in drag, but in the costume and how do you make correct me. I mean, how may the third with glitter. I mean, I mean, there was an engagement with Hawaiian tradition that seemed risky on one hand. I absolutely tell that the Hawaiian audience members around me actually really loved it and appreciated it because it's still respected tradition at the same time but but I have to say I had never seen anything like that. In, you know, in theater. I mean, since since moving to Oahu and you know, 20, 22 years ago. So there's a there's a there's a broad range. There's a Kabuki production upcoming is that then a traditional Kabuki or do you have a Hawaiian take on it or it's also a big production I guess. So, so the upcoming Kabuki production that we will see next next April is complete is really unrelated from the Anakiaka program that is really produced by our Japanese theater professor, Julie Etsy, who has really been working on this for four years fundraising, being in touch with master artists, master makeup artists, costumers, etc. So this is a fully realized Kabuki production in authentic costumes with an authentic set master teachers will provide movement and voice classes this fall. And I think at the beginning of spring so that is that that is part of this kind of you know, 60 a tradition at our department that is also at the same time continuing. So today, maybe that closeness to Japan that Hawaii that islands that are kept out of islands in the middle between these continents, you know, maybe who knows where your students might find a fusion as they did. As you said, you know if I know the rights and elements of a drag performance into Hawaiian King and, and as comedy. So who knows, and what forms will come out this is just the start and who knows how in 2040 50100 years. There will bloom out of a change that was created, you know, and from a call from activists and from, from led on leaders visionary leaders or university but also the right people who happened to be there and in the right. In the right moment I'm so impressed with all of it, you know, I hope that we have talked about it and I think we might also realize that it will create maybe a journal academic journal. We have the opala muted Ryan Pierce here at the Graduate Center CUNY, also a great leader of artists native and American or indigenous artists here in New York on the Lenape tradition, I think everyone here can only dream of such resources that support. Worldwide globally there's so much work being done which we are not aware of whether it might be in Siberia or in in Mongolia and Indonesia or anywhere in African continent and that qualifies over there so I'm thrilled to hear that you established a PhD program for that and is also of importance if we have learned anything also in the time of corona is that we have to listen to indigenous voices, we have to listen to a way of connecting to life, the meaning of life of honoring life of animals plants traditions rituals that go back because what is going wrong at the moment is connected to the fact that we have lost that connection the fact that 1500 flights got canceled last night of storms unseen here in the Hudson the heat waves in Texas the wildfires in Canada. Extreme heat also in Europe I think it is all something where we haven't paid attention, and I think not only we have to look at it, because it's an interesting form of theater and we should include it and there are so many arguments but there's also wisdom, there's a tradition and there's also knowledge embedded that is there perhaps to help us to find something into connect or to have better lives highly how do you see that is that on your agenda, or do you think you are focusing on theater as theater as an art in itself. I agree, I would agree that we are connecting to something that's greater than than us. We are, you know, through art through the retelling of these stories, we, we connect with those who came before us and allow them to guide us into the future. Yeah, it is something that many many indigenous peoples are tapping into now. I think that, you know, looking at our ritual performance and looking at our languages and looking at traditional practice and cultural values and allowing that to really steer the canoe, as we move forward and navigate forward. Yeah, and I think a time where just interhuman conflicts take space and place on the stage. You know, perhaps it is not what is mostly it's also need but not mostly that we need to find ways to live with nature with plans with animals with everything that's around us with the forces and we are nature we are part of it we had a great talk with philosopher Andreas Weber here. I think he would be very interested, you know, to know what you are all doing that critical zone as Bruno Latour always said, 30 feet above us 30 feet below us, we are just part of that we are not the main actors, as he said that the princess the directors, we are part of an entire environment and I think we have to learn that and I think theater indigenous theater and from that, what is left and what we have to find again and revive there is something in that that is of real importance for all of us also as you mentioned things happen outside. And the the the enclosed spaces. And so there is I think also something to discover and to learn and also for you and the journey which you have just started but I have to say I'm so very very impressed. It's such a great model and congratulations to the University of Hawaii Manoa that they made that possible and and maybe both of you talk a little bit about upcoming projects your research and the next place or what what are you doing in your life and then we will say goodbye. Marcus. You know, I'm, I'm still the department share and I'm kind of looking forward to finish my this current term I have two more years. So, in terms of upcoming projects. This is actually not related to hana kiyaka but we also have a really impressive dance program. And for the second time it will actually be the dramaturg on a on a dance concert concert created and directed by our very talented choreographer and dancer painting cow she is one of our colleagues in the in the dance faculty and this is a production that will happen in November and she collaborates with I think at least three trans transgender former grads current collaborators as well as actually a number of indigenous collaborators from the continent. So that so that's also something that we do we didn't really get to talk about this so there's also a very strong dance aspect. And apart from that I'm right now. Completing the proofs of the next brecht yearbook, which has kind of more than 408 pages that I need to send to the publisher in 10 days. What's the brecht this theme or there's no theme at this point. We gave that up a few years ago for a few years ago. And you're kind of model but but usually these days the the contributions are so diverse they're really kind of not that easy to you know put under one kind of thematic umbrella. Yeah, and it was very influential brecht and the Asian theater conference you you created highly what's up on your plate. Yes, so we have the launching of the PhD and Hawaiian indigenous performance, as well as to Hanukkah productions happening in this academic year, or the 2023 2024 season. In September we have kaisara, which is an adaptation of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, framed within the political context of 1894. That's a student production Hawaiian situation in 1984 yeah. Yes, yes. Yes. And so this is about a year after the overthrow. And so some really important political players who are also the major scholars in our newspapers come to read a translation, which actually appeared in the newspaper, it's a few scenes from Julius Caesar that were translated into a little Hawaii in the 1890s. So that opens up in September and then in February, which is when language month we have glitter in the park. Happening. And then in March, we have our inaugural conference for our know that will be followed by the consortium of Asian American theaters and artists, confess, happening in May. And then June, we have the Festival of Pacific Arts, where 26 island nations will be convening in Hawaii to share their various types of art. This is what we consider the Olympics of Pacific art. It will bring in many, many different people. And it's a great celebration, a really great celebration. So we hope to have some of our work featured in that. And then fall 2024 we'll have our next Hanaka production on the main stage, followed by our walk I pie Aina or neighbor island tour of that. And in all of this, we're just looking for funding so we're grant writing furiously so that we can sustain on all our research Institute, and all of the work we're doing. And as I mentioned, you know, it's really about giving our students opportunities through grants and graduate assistantships and, you know, telling our stories. Yeah, raising awareness, you know, for that significant field of art culture, a theater and study. And it really is amazing it seems to be the place where things are happening we all should know more about people should get on the airplanes and come to the festivals and see the cities and participate and, and to, and to be in exchange and to experience that also very beautiful place in the world also your campus is so inspiring I think the different architectures for mixing from around and the, and the space in between is quite quite a unique, a unique place so thank you. Thank you both really for being with us and for sharing your experience is truly the inspiring story also a story that is not marked by bitterness or by defeats not on that it's for a joyful one and hopeful one and it's Ken and should serve as a novel that things actually are possible so thank you both and I know Marcus you could have said so much more and Ely and students and other participants but we already went very much over time we'd like to thank how around you all for this and I hope you all will join us back we will try to have maybe over the summer conversations people who do run festivals around the world to see what is happening, but this was a great update on theater in the United States on the island and the pelagos of Hawaii. Thank you both. Bye bye and thanks to me. Thank you. Thank you Frank. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thank you.