 Hello and welcome to a new season of Let's Talk. My name is Chris Satney and of course we begin this new season with the subject of original agreement on access to information, public participation and justice in environmental matters in Latin America and the Caribbean and this is also known as ESCASU agreement. Of course we'll hear more about that agreement as we introduce our guest and she is Kate Wilson who is the legal officer with the Department of Sustainable Development. Welcome to our program. Thank you very much Chris. All right. It's a long name but much significance I imagine. Tell us about the ESCASU agreement. Well the ESCASU agreement as you did in fact say it is a very long winded agreement. It is the regional agreement on access to information, public participation and justice in environmental matters not only in the Caribbean but also in Latin America. And it is called the ESCASU agreement because it was endorsed in sometime in March at a high level segment in ESCASU which is a town in San Jose, Costa Rica. Now what is the relevance of the agreement you asked? Definitely I would like to know that. The agreement is relevant because first and foremost it affirms the value of a regional and multilateral approach to sustainable development. It also aims to combat inequality and discrimination and to guarantee the rights of every person to a healthy environment as well as to sustainable development. In fact it places equality at the core of sustainable development and it is so significant that John Knox who is the UN special rapporteur on human rights, he has healed this agreement as being one of the most important human rights agreements as well as one of the most important environmental agreements in the last 20 years. The whole facet of human rights and the environment, link that for us, why is that? Because the environment and environmental rights is essentially in some countries it is already part of the constitution as a human right. We have not reached that stage in St. Lucian, I hopefully that we will get to that. But what we are claiming to do and what this agreement is trying to do is for us to now begin to see environmental rights as an essential human right. The right to a healthy environment as a basic human right. Just as we have all the right, the right to food, the right to water, the right to clothing, the right to housing. Definitely. Give us some of the key provisions of that agreement. Okay, so first of all the agreement as I said it has three facets. It has one, access to information, public participation and justice. So let us look at what the provisions in terms of access to information is. Okay, so the first thing is the agreement, it talks about making information widely available to the public. Of course each country if they say, for example, if St. Lucia decides to sign on to that agreement St. Lucia will have to put in place the proper framework so that people say someone, a human person who is interested in the environment or even say an organization like the National Trust if they have some information that they want to and an appropriate authority would be a competent authority would be established in terms of keeping that information of being responsible. Yes, responsible for that. That's right. That's right. And so you will find that that entity, say the National Trust or a concerned citizen would be able through a recognized procedure be able to ask of that competent authority information, say on hazardous material in the communities, say on a project that might adversely affect the environment so that they would be able to do that. So essentially it is giving access rights to persons. What would that information do? That information would be able to let the person or the entity be more informed in terms of one, what is the environmental impact that is going to, what is the impact not only on the environment, but also on the health of persons living in the area. So anything that would affect the community as a whole. Ms Wilson, tell us about the relevance as far as St Lucia is concerned, you know, with its size and the other countries of Latin America, they are a lot larger. What's really the relevance? I know you touched on it earlier, but just expand a bit first. Okay. St Lucia, being a small island state, particularly when it goes out on a regional level and an international level, tend to be negotiating in a block, not on its own. Usually we negotiate with other countries who have similar interests with us. So hence the reason why ECLAC, the Economic Commission for Latin America, who is the technical secretary for this agreement, the Escazoo Agreement, what they have tried to do in putting this agreement together is to now get the countries to together, come together on a regional level, so that they have a stronger negotiating basis. So when they go out on an international scale, they have a means by which they can negotiate for environmental matters. They're not that much on the map. That's right. They're not just that insignificant. Very much so. Even more important thing is that it was an agreement which was forged by the people themselves. Okay. And the public, the civil society, was very instrumental and very visible in making their voices heard in terms of what the provisions in that agreement were. And so that's very significant because it's one of the agreements that addresses issues of environmental defenders. Very good. We'll talk more about that environmental defenders right after this break. We're watching. Let's talk. We're back after this. The regional agreement on access to information, public participation, and justice in environmental matters in Latin America and the Caribbean will be open for signature this coming September 2018 through to September 2020 at the United Nations headquarters in New York. Join the conversation as we discuss what this agreement means for us in St. Lucia. We want you, students, academia, the public sector, the private sector, the St. Lucia National Trust, civil society, all stakeholders, join me, Kate Wilson, and the Department of Sustainable Development as we count down to September. Welcome back to Let's Talk as we continue our conversation with Kate Wilson, who is the legal officer for the Department of Sustainable Development. We continue our conversation on S. Kazoo. So you were speaking and you were bringing light up to environmental defenders. It's really good that we have people who stand up for the environment. Yes. Yes, Chris. And once we do not have, we have organizations like the St. Lucia National Trust in St. Lucia and the forefront of the environmental issues. And we have, I'm sure, a number of other groups. But you find that in places like, say, Honduras and Brazil, even Costa Rica, you find people have actually been killed agitating for environmental rights. And so one of the main things about this regional agreement is that there are provisions made for protection for such persons, for the competent authorities and the countries to give adequate protection so that these people, if their lives are being threatened, that there is some sort of provision in terms of the society to protect their voice, right? And also that they would have access to justice, like if they are inappropriately, if they are arrested or something like that, or that nature, that they have redress, they have legal redress. Even whilst the negotiations were happening in Costa Rica sometime in March, on March the 4th, that was the anniversary of one of the defenders who were killed in Honduras agitating for environmental rights. So this agreement is perhaps one of the first agreements that has provisions for the protection for environmental defenders. Well, we St. Lucia, as far as that is concerned, I know we have a lot of work to do, but as a legal officer, you would know, as far as St. Lucia is having a voice in that way. Well, what we have to do, we have a Freedom of Information Act, so we have legislation in place that allows for information that if the public wants information, that we can access information. But if we are going to sign this agreement, and we are going to go into not only just signing, but we are going to ratify, and when it comes into force, we would need to put in place on a national level, or at a national level, not only the legal framework, but also the institutional frameworks to give effect to that agreement. So we would have to look at our laws and see, we don't want to duplicate many efforts and do the same thing over and over. So we will look at what we already have and see what is it that we need to do to be able to allow the public, persons on the street, civil society, anybody who is interested in environmental information, how they will be able to access it from the government. Not just that, well, not necessarily the government, but from whoever that competent authority will be. Yes, whatever interaction. That's right. And not only that, that agreement allows for public participation, and not just when the decision is made, but at the level, at all levels. So at the consultative level, at the level of decision making, so that the public will be involved. So we have to put in place a framework to allow the public. That's right. It must have a voice. That's right. And then also the access to justice part of it. You know one of the things that prevents people from getting proper access to justice is one, legal standing, that they don't have legal standing. Secondly, the cost, the high cost of going to court. That's right. So all these things we would have to put, if St. Lucia is serious about this agreement, which I believe they are, we would have to put in place those frameworks that allow for access to justice, proper access to justice, which means we would have to look at legal, we would have to look at how we are going to address the cost issue. And so we would have to look at how a person to... Some kind of facility. Facility for that. So persons who cannot afford to go to court, to take a matter to court, that will have legal aid. They can be represented. That's right. They can be represented, that we can have legal aid. You know, so whatever framework that comes up... At least they would know that they won't have to worry about that and they can fight for that right without worry. That's right. Definitely. What's been done on the ground? Discussions like ours will help. But what's been done to ensure that St. Lucia understands this is coming. Right. So what the Department of Sustainable Development has done, in the process of doing as well, is that we, with every agreement or every piece of legislation, there is a public awareness campaign. You must consult with the public. And so not only are we doing radio and television programs, we are also on the ground, going into the communities and speaking with the persons on the ground. So we will be, and in fact we are in the process, as I speak, we have consultations ongoing. We go into the communities and we have what is known as town hall meetings. You call the people in. You make a presentation on the agreement. So you explain what it means to them. So in a language that they understand. Okay. And so we don't just do it in English. We go into a community, say if it's a... Using the mother tongue. That's right. Using the mother tongue. So we do that, which is another access, and that is another component to access. That's right. So if you're speaking a language that the people don't understand, that is not access. So we are providing the information in a language that they understand in a manner that they can respond and they can participate. So we are hoping that we will be speaking with the National Workers Union. We will be speaking with the Chamber. We've reached out to all those organizations and to the persons on the ground. So we are in the Sufre community. We are in Miku. We are in all corners of the community getting feedback. So nobody can now come and see within consult. Very good. I am very appreciative of you being here. Thank you very much. And of course I wish you the best with this. We will speak again later as the process continues. So all the best to you and of course this agreement. Thank you very much, Chris. And it was a pleasure being here today. All right. Well, that's Let's Talk for you. Another program comes your way next week. On behalf of the entire production team thanking my guest, Kate Wilson of the Sustainable Development Department, the legal officer, and of course the entire production team. Thank you for watching. Until next time.