 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today we are joined by Dipsattadhar, who is the all-in-all joint secretary of the Students' Federation of India and we're going to talk to her about the call given for a national protest day for May 20th by the All India Forum to Safe Public Education. We're going to ask her about this call, why it has been given and the conditions of students in India today and the struggles being faced by them. So thank you for joining us today. Can you can we first talk about one of the main one a very pressing issue which is of online education which is something schools and institutions of higher education all over the world are moving to online education these days because of this COVID-19 crisis and while we see that in few places particularly China this has been successful they have been able to do it successfully but in India we see that students groups are opposing this so why is this opposition here what are the struggles what are the challenges in this. Anna first of all before going to that that debate of digital divide and why we are opposing digital mode of planning let us first let me be clear why this forum for saving public education came up. It came up during the time when the new education policy was announced and once all of us got to know about the nuances of the new education policy we understood that this is something which is going to completely devastate the public education system which is there in place. We have already seen that after the 90s there was a rampant decentralization you're seeing all the government schools have been shut we are seeing the the non-government players are investing more and more and getting a lot of space in the education sphere to be particular but this new education policy actually further the case they are saying it on our face that the government is no more going to pay for your education so they're talking about financial autonomy so all the government colleges schools universities which were the only places left where people from the poorer section people from the marginalized section could get good education in very small amount of money now you are saying even those universities those institutions also are going to get their own finances and how they are going to do it they are saying that you have to I mean the only way left is that you have to increase the fee you have to increase the semester fee you have to increase the hostel fee and have to get the money from the student themselves they're also saying that earlier how we have university grant commission used to give grant to the institution now this concept of grant is no more there now the government is going to give you loan now once you give loan that loan is to be paid back also now how education institution which is not a factory which is not our corporate organization which does not really create any surplus or any any profit in that way how they're going to pay back the money again the load the burden is going to come just on the shoulder of the students so we thought this is something which are going to stop the way of education for a lot of people in our country and that was the time when different different left organization along with that all the other people all the other student organization who thought that on this particular topic on this particular you know policies they can come with us we all came together and found this this forum now today we again have come together and given this call tomorrow because we are seeing the during the pandemic there were multiple problems of students of course there is a problem that the school college universities are shut so all our academic calendar is a little disrupted or the syllabus that needs to be completed that was not done but along with that we also have seen that the student who are coming from the poorer section the children of the workers family the children of the poorer family the children from the marginalized section they are itself having a crisis which is not only about whether their syllabus is going to get completed or not but whether they're going to stay alive once the lockdown is over or not whether there is going to be enough food in their home or not so when the large section of our student community is suffering at this kind of you know or like fighting at this kind of battle our government comes and tells that okay there's a solution of everything everything is going to go in digital now now the government has completely forgotten that what is the internet penetration rate in our country except kerala and delhi then there are hardly states which have a 50 percent or in and around a percentage of internet penetration so what will happen to the other states along with that we also know that you know having a having a phone itself is a privilege having a smart phone having an android phone or having an uninterrupted internet for g 5 g speed 3 g speed or electricity these are not something which is accessible to everyone when a student come to school come to college or university when that person is sitting inside her he's at her classroom at least this are the not problem what she's fixed she or he's facing now you're saying on the on the primarily of access who is going to get education who is going to get the lecture who is going to be able to write examination and the assignment itself is dependent on whether you have internet or not whether you have a smartphone or not whether you have a personal laptop or access to a computer or not so in a time when already the people of our country are suffering are fighting their battle of survival now you are saying that children of those families that if you do not have phone if you don't have internet you don't have to study it is not at all important that you know you have to study if you don't have all these privileges and access to all these things and one thing what we also want to retire here that that all this you know paranoia about we have to complete our syllabus we have to do the examination and all this thing so are these syllabus says or or the books that you have said that that needs to be completed in this time are there something which is can't be changed because this is not something which is a very particular thing on india all across the country all across the globe we are saying that people are facing a similar kind of you know situation so even if the government together things are changing the module or you know do some relaxation the syllabus it is not going to be a big deal but what is going to be a big deal is if in a district situation like that you come and tell our children from a poor family that if you don't have phone if you don't have internet do not study the other desire the aspiration of what the people from marginalized communities the poorer families what they have got they might be the first generation learner they might be the first person from their community or their village to go to a university if we are saying that if you're so interested in you know doing our digital mode or a digital learning first you create the digital infrastructure you are you know taking the example of china in china they could do it because they already have that infrastructure on place but in a country like india where the government didn't make the digital infrastructure so far even after so many years you really cannot expect if you say some you know suddenly out of nowhere that everything is going to be online now it is discriminated it's exclusionary you are saying only people with privilege can study others cannot and that's the primary reason why you are opposing the you know digital learning or all the online examination that I've proposed and you talked about the students survival that how when so many in the community are so many in the student community are fighting for survival right now then all of this pressure and all of this shift to the online mode is happening and in this time we also in in context of this fight for survival what is the condition of scholarships and fellowships because of course that is also very important right now especially in the when we see the situation of the extreme job losses and the agrarian distress so how is that are those scholarships still being regularly dispersed no I mean scholarships were never been regularly dispersed but during this time also we were we hope we at least expected that thinking the crisis that the country is going through our government will be a little more sensitive and at least this time they will make sure that people who are stuck at hostels people who are stuck at away from their home has some money in their hand but we have seen that for last four months particularly if you look at my university jnu the non-net fellowship that we used to get for last four months the money has not come so what happens once you are in a hostel you really don't have to I mean we don't have to pay our mess bill every month that kind of system is still there so you can you know pay back I mean pay all the money once just end of the semester with with some amount of late fee but what about the people who are staying in rent what about the people who are stuck at different places what about the people who are in home for whom their scholarship or fellowship was one important source of income now once you are you just spoke about there is a huge job loss a lot of people have become newly unemployed there is there's no money there is no income that is coming in their home and then all that that scholarship and that fellowship that could at least give some sort of sustenance to this family or to this individual who are stuck at different places that is also not been disbursed regularly so this is also one of our demand that all the scholarships all the fellowship that need to be regularized and this is a long-standing demand because we have seen earlier also let it be jrf srf or the non-net they were they will come in bulk but the thing is that how you are going to survive before that I mean if you have if you have someone in your mcl first year and if you are getting all your money in the last of the semester what about the you know the previous five months how you are going to take care of your expenses if you have some other income source of your parents or your family still support you with that's a different case but we know in our university the so-called one of the best universities in India there also there are so many students who do not first they do not take any money from their home secondly that little amount of money they get as a form of fellowship or scholarship from there also they send it back to their home with which maybe their you know sisters go to college their sisters go to school so in a situation like that other fact that the government has not been sensible enough to disperse the scholarship or fellowship is also something that is very concerning so this is also one of our important demand whatever money which is our due money which we get because of our merit please disperse it and make sure that everybody gets it and can you also talk more in detail about the situation of students accommodations both in hostels and also of course in rented accommodations how are they coping with this so the people I would say the people who are at least in hostel is a little better because for instance hostels like JNU you at least getting the food and everything though there is a change in the menu and all but still three times whatever you used to get earlier before the lockdown the similar kind of food pattern is maintained so the people who are right now in a hostel they're still in a better condition in a in a gated campus like JNU but I'm not sure if that's the same case in the other hostels because there were some distressed call from some people from AMU Aligarh Muslim University some 700 students from West Bengal are stuck there and the 700 students many of them are hostel residents and a lot of them actually took in rooms outside in rent so for them getting food every day buying food cooking it you know having money to spend all this thing are becoming a really big issue for many maybe not rent is the primary thing but having money to cook food having money to buy food and having money to sustain themselves is becoming a big problem along with that of course there's a problem of rent as we know in Delhi we have a union student tenant union where we are trying to you know the people who are staying in rent trying to you know bring them in a single platform and trying to figure out a way because there are also a lot of you know there are different dimensions particularly in case of Delhi many small renters like the people who give their homes in a very in a minimum money many times the house owner him or herself is dependent on that money that we pay as rent a lot of elderly whose you know children do not stay with them they stay outside or abroad so that's the only only way only only income source for them so it's a very difficult condition that's why you have demanded to the all the government that we have written first of all you take them back you take us back all of us want to go home people who are in rent recommendation there's a scarcity of food there's a scarcity of security we want to go back home so you make sure that that is done because the government has done it already we have seen so many students who are studying at Kota in the coaching institution they were all taken back things happened in West Bengal things happened in Uttar Pradesh so if this students could be taken back to their homes why can't we be and this is also one of our demand that you're going to raise tomorrow that in all the rented accommodation the people who are stuck one they should be taken back secondly the places where there's a situation of rent agreement the government should intervene and should make sure that nobody is you know that it's it's not like that somebody is being harmed or somebody is not in a beneficiary position but the government needs to intervene and make sure that both the parties are in an equal position and if you talk about the issue of student activism of course we see in India under this right wing government even during this pandemic it's like they're taking advantage of this pandemic and the because people are not able to resist in ways they normally resist so still just crackdown on activists is happening can you talk particularly about student activists and the situation they're facing I mean it was very unfortunate when every day we got to know that someone or some of our comrades or some people who are along with us in the movement are being you know targeted someone's phone is being taken someone is arrested and if you're going to look into the pattern you will see the people who are arrested so far are first they were majorly the students of Jamia Miliya Islamia and also majority of them are Muslims I mean when we talk about the witch hunting of activists let us not ignore the fact that their identity as a Muslim played a huge role because if you look why they were arrested they were told that they were involved into the Delhi riots all the people who are who have been targeted arrested all the charges that are put they're all in and around the violence the riot that has happened in Delhi now the thing is we know that the students didn't have really any role to play there this were the people who run the you know they they started their campaign they started their movement once the they once the police attacked in Jamia once their comrades their friends the students were beaten up inside their hostels inside their library after that out of outrage people came down to streets and Jamia Miliya Islamia was leading the struggle in the in Shaheen Bagh and Shaheen Bagh happened there also these were the students who were leading it and now how these two completely unrelated things the you know the incident of Jamia Miliya the protest that was happening there and how the communal clash happened in Delhi and the other parts how they were linked and it seemed like they were trying to show it like that these are the people who are speaking against CA was speaking against NRC who are speaking against the minority witch hunting who are speaking for the right of the student to speak these are the people who have done all the wrong thing so we have seen that not for a single time they really spoken about Kapil Mishra the BJP MLA who have come and told you know it's a communally charged words they have told in front of the police that if you do not take the protest out we are going to take the law and order in our hands and you're going to take care of it so many people so many student activists so many Muslim student activists have been arrested have been targeted but not a single word about all these BJP leaders who were present and the video went viral everybody has seen that how he actually you know made sure that in Delhi there's a riot so this is something which I think something that we all should be really scared of because we have seen during the NRC CA protest also students came down to streets in a large number students became the voice students were the first to come down to streets and make it a point that we are not going to let this country to be turned into a hindi hindu hindustan these countries of everyone and we have seen this vibrant protest all across the country led by the young people led by the muslim women and it was unstoppable I mean even after doing so many things BJP could not really stop it nowhere the shine bugs that were erupted across the country were closed down because people came down spontaneously the energy of the youth the energy of the student gave them this motivation to continue their struggle so now what they're doing they're saying that that time they could not crush it they could not crush it democratically democratically their propaganda failed but now when our previous mode of protest our traditional mode of protest are no more workable they're just using this time target the people to make sure that nobody speak against this government and this is a threat this is a open threat to the minority of this country who are vocal about their right who are political in their nature that if you're going to speak against the government you're going to be put behind the bus and that's why we have taken this this demand as one of our one another important demand for tomorrow's protest that campus democracy the right of people to speak what they think are the right of the right of students to do politics to engage in political conversation that cannot be carved a lot of people are trying to say that you know this is not that time you should do politics this is the time you should only talk about covid this you only should talk about stay home and all that kind of thing about physical distancing on the name of you know lockdown in the name of a pandemic you cannot take away the hard earned democratic rights from us and that's why this is also one of our major demand that you're going to put tomorrow and you talked about the national education policy right in the beginning and how that is an issue which was very actively resisted by students earlier when it first came out and we of course now in this time of physical distancing we see that that kind of resistance is getting increasingly difficult and that's why perhaps this Indian government is pushing through moves which you know it wouldn't have been able to earlier as easily especially the extensive privatization so how student organizations now planning to carry out resistance in the future tomorrow and in the future and other movements and also what are the other some of the demands major demands that you might not have mentioned earlier one thing is so I mean as as you said that all our traditional way of protesting is no more we cannot do it in the similar way so the last protest that we did we also did another protest a few few days back which was which named bhasan nahi rashan so we came down to our balcony in front of our door and we hold the placard saying that bhasan nahi rashan because we are seeing that when the death of migrant workers were happening and let it be on Narendra Modi or our finance minister except their you know their oratory except their flowery words they are not really giving anything so we made it a point that to make sure to let the people know through social media with our with all the demands written in our placard to to put our voice across to make sure that the voice of the migrant laborers the voice of the poor people marginalized people who are struggling to survive their voices you know heard somehow so today tomorrow also our plan is that similar we are going to do primarily a social media campaign we're going to stand in front of our door in our balcony or just outside we're going to click pictures of it we are going to put content in social media we're also thinking of a twitter storm around 11 o'clock so that the topic that the light of the students the problem that students we are facing that also somewhere get noticed because nowhere so far in the package or even in the version of our prime minister of finance minister they really didn't mention about students it seemed that we are invisible nothing was told that how we are going to come back about our scholarship about our fellowship so the thing that we are apprehending the thing that we are fearing is that a lot of people are going to be dropped out because our income source are going to be you know limited so in the poorer families to support their family a lot of students who are earlier used to maybe going to school college or university they will stop pursuing their career and they will try to get some other job or something to support their family because their income sources have been quenched so in a situation like that we are thinking that if the government is not really strategizing if the government is really not thinking how to get these people back or how to stop them from being dropping out then it's going to be a very difficult situation because in India we have to do so many things to make sure that our literacy is going up we have we have done so many efforts so many policies were there to make sure that the people are there in the education arena now with the lockdown with the with the loss of employment a lot of people who were earlier in the in the education sphere they're going to be dropped out the women in particular because in our society in a patriarchal society the women's education is the least priority so this is also something what you want to raise with our protest tomorrow that the government should have a strategy what you're going to do with these people what the government can do to stop a large section of people going out of the education arena because these are the people who came from a very struggling background a marginalized society now when you think of a progress of a society the progress of the society is dependent on how many people you are joining in if these people who are historically deprived these people who are historically discriminated if they're again lost out of our this process of mobility then how society how the country is going to get its progress so this is also something that we want our government to think of because we understand that this government is not something which are going to think of people it's not something we're going to think of the poorer people but that does not mean that we're going to stop from our end we are limited in power our sources are limited but that is not going to something that going to stop us with all our resources we're going to at least make sure that the demands that we are raising that the concern that we are raising that should reach to the government and if somehow if some miracle happens and if they really you know think of us and if they really act upon it that will be good for everyone for the country thank you thank you for talking to us and this is all the time we have thank you for watching people's dispatch