 Ja, is het werken? Ja, oké. Sorry? Ja, het werkt hier. Welkom, iedereen. De volgende talk is van Samuel Thibault. Ja, ja, ja, ja. Hij zal ons meer vertellen over de accessibiliteit van Debian. Dus bedankt voor het komst. Dus we zullen over de accessibiliteit in Debian praten. Juste om een short answer te geven hoe accessibel Debian is. Ik heb het niet. Het is wel goed accessibel. Maar er is nog wat te doen. Dus dat is waarom ik hier ben om te zien wat we kunnen doen en discussie over het. Maar om de uitleg van mijn talk te geven. Ik begin natuurlijk met introduceren je naar accessibiliteit. Want ik denk dat er bijna niemand in deze deel heeft gezien van accessibiliteitproblemen. En dan geef ik me een state van de art van de deel en technieken die we gebruiken voor accessie naar een computer. En over Debian. Wat werkt er al? Wat moeten we doen? En wat moeten we doen dat we nog niet weten? Het is om pakkettingen en alles zo. Dus het wordt meer een debat dan de soluties die ik zal geven. En dus de verkeers is wat je kan doen om te helpen. Please, please ask questions. Dit is de eerste keer dat ik een talk heb over deze topic. Dus ik weet niet wat je weet. Dus please ask me when you don't understand something. En over Debian, please debate. Have ideas and things like this. The little green and black thing on top of the screen. Don't look at it for now. I see it later. So. What is accessibility? Which is also known as A11Y, the usual contraction algorithm. So it's making software usable by disabled people. Disabled means a lot of things. Of course the first example and the one I will detail in this talk is blind people. So people who can't see at all. There are some people who are just low-sighted. And for those people things that can be done. I just show. I won't talk so much about that because I don't know so much. Ah, come on. Well, never mind. The problem with accessibility is quite recent. So it's quite bugged anyway. So those people can still distinguish some things on the screen but not everything. So having just magnification helps them a lot. So this is the magnification of the GNOME desktop. For instance here you have part of QMU which is magnifying. En of course you can change the zoom factor. So that for people who really have hard time to see and have to go right a few centimeters to the screen. And they can see better than the screen. I have to disable it. So, but not only these two kinds of disease. Death people, people who can't hear. In a lot of games you need to hear to be able to kill the monsters etc. Well, that's an accessibility problem. Sometimes you have software that makes sounds etc. That's an accessibility problem as well. So that's a problem. Color blind. Color blind. Maybe you're not aware. I'm just curious how many people in this room are color blind. And please raise your hand. Don't be shy. I know at least two person. A third person. Ok. So you can see that even in this room, we are not so many. There are quite a lot of color blind people. For this case things like composite which is meant for 3D etc. So very visually things. Actually it can be used for accessibility by just applying a filter on colors To make, to use more distinguishable colors. Or just to simulate color blindness for those people who aren't. So just to know how it feels to be color blind. One handed. Some people just have one hand. And so usually as a keyboard is not necessarily so easy to use. And so then you have key maps for such cases. Finger handed. You only have one figure. Then you can still use a joystick. I will show you the kind of thing that you can still do quite efficiently. Eye handed. You just can move your eye. And still you can use eye tracking systems. That just look at what you are looking at on the screen. And I show you the dash application which is quite impressive. You have all the letters of the alphabet on the right. And I start and just move my mouse to the H, the E. And then the double L. And you see it's very smart because it knows that a lot of words in English Begins with H, E and then a double L. Not only one. So the second L is made bigger. And then hello. And I go to the wall. And you can see the words just making. And I can't remember where. Yeah, it's it. And that's it. Well, I'm not very good at it because I don't use it often. But people who use eye tracking systems are really efficient at typing. Just thanks to this. Elderly people. Well, actually, that's a problem because usually they have all the problems. And another problem is cognition. Well, of course users are stupid. You all know that. But sometimes it's actually a disease like dyslexia or things like this that don't help at all for using a computer. So I will not detail all of this. There is a quite good how to which is a bit old. That explains all of this quite well and different kinds of things that are needed. So I will focus mostly on blind people. Unless you have some questions about disabilities in general. No, okay. So just a few technologies. Braille input and output for blind people, of course. I will detail this later. There is speech synthesis, which is mostly you have text. And then you have some software that converts it into something you can hear. It used to be done in hardware, but now it's mostly done in software just because it's easier to give updates. It's less costly, et cetera. Joysticks, as I said, for people who can just move a finger or just press buttons, some people can just press something. And then they can still select a rule and then a column of a virtual keyboard and then type. So I will just focus on Braille input, output, and speech synthesis. So Braille devices. So I don't have a Braille device because as we will see they are quite expensive. But I have a photograph here so you can see, oh no, it's not so good. But well, basically you have a flat line on which you have some pins that go up and down in a mechanical way. And so when a pin is up, it's just like here you have the little dots that are black. And then for, well, it's not so simple but you can think of it as for just a little cell like this there is a letter. So actually this is Dibian in Braille. And so you can just put several cells like this and put some buttons. Come on. And then you have a Braille device. Mostly it's this, you have a series of Braille cells, a few buttons to navigate. We will see how it works. And then that's Braille device. So just put it. So usually they are connected to the computer through a serial line or USB or Bluetooth, whatever. And they have 20, 40, 80 cells. Well, how much do you think this costs? Just 24 cells. No, it's not so much. It's just quarter of a usual TTY line. How much? I couldn't hear. A hundred. More than a thousand, 3,000. 3,600. A 40, 40 cells. Yeah, five and a half. And this one is 40 as well, but it has a Braille keyboard on it en you can take notes so that it's just a personal computer in a word. How much? Almost 10,000. And the price doesn't get down. It's always been like this for years, for decades. So well, the idea is don't focus on just one technology just because Braille is not perfect. Well, not only it's expensive, but also a lot of people can't read Braille just because they got blind later in their life and so it's quite hard to learn something at some point or just because it's too difficult. Well anyway, Braille is not perfect. Speech synthesis is not either just because sometimes you're in a train you don't want to disturb people or just because you're deaf. And then you can hear the speech. A common pitfall, well, it's not necessarily a pitfall is to write dedicated software so that people can use the computer. Well, these Emacspeak and Firefox are two examples. Well, they are not so much dedicated software. It's an adoption of existing software for Emacspeak speaking and Firefox as well. There's quite some work in that and it works quite great. Emacspeak is good in that, well, you can do everything with it so people can do a lot of things with their computer thanks to this. Well, not JavaScript sites so well you have five folks for this but then you don't have an office suite opening office documents and so you need an office suite et cetera to re-implement everything. Another thing is you may also think about writing a red browser from scratch that speaks. The problem is that then your red brother won't be usable by sighted people and then a sighted person and a non-sighted person cannot work together with the same software and that's the problem when you work together you want to show something on the screen but because it's the accessible version so you can't et cetera. The idea is just make the existing application accessible without having to modify as less as possible so that you can just reuse the huge amount of software that exists and work together with people so that for instance here ideally enough I should be able to plug a brain device and then on the brain device you would see what is shown on the screen so my presentation well for now it's not working yet but that's the kind of thing that we want and then if I click that should make the brain device go to that part of the screen. So, just to explain how things are working in a few words text mode in general is quite well accessible just because it's text already so it's not so difficult to access it the problem is that of course beginners are afraid of text mode so you need to have some GUI accessibility GNOME started being accessible a few years ago they're still a long run to go and we are actually quite wait compared to the windows case Joe's windows eyes and etc have been started quite a lot of time ago and we are late but well so first, yeah I just wonder why would we be less scary of a blind beginner just because typing common lines some people just can't just don't want well, there is I mean it's just the same for sighted people some sighted people people just don't want to use common lines just because it's so scary to type comments you can't beat that when to use models to point a logic yeah, actually usually I would use text mode but some people don't it's a permanent fight on the accessibility mailing list between people who prefer always prefer text mode and people who prefer always prefer graphical interfaces just because it's more intuitive etc even if it's graphical they find it more intuitive other questions, no? so the very technical part first, the Linux console accessibility is relatively simple so you have Linux here with all the applications running on different VT's and the Linux kernel has an interface so that a demon so for instance braille TTY can just read what is displayed on the screen and then show it on a braille device or speak it through a synthesis so it's quite simple that you can just have you can just review the screen when you go to X11 no sorry, there is another way to do it is to put the reader just between the application and the TTY layer so that's what YASA does it is actually a very portable way because PTY exists in all kinds of unices and so it doesn't depend on Linux so that's quite cool now about the graphical mode that's kind of a problem quite a long time ago the Mercator project just was just sitting between the application and the X server and getting the text on the way that works for X edit but that doesn't for G edit just because G edit doesn't send text to the server but PIX maps because the rendering is done inside the application and so here it can't work anymore and so you have to use what we call nowadays the ATSPI which is an interface to let a screen read the like orca access to the information the textual information right inside the toolkit that is used by the application and then you can output as Braille or speech et cetera so that's basically how you can access applications ok so technically speaking a lot of applications are already accessible so console in the GTK because it presents an ATSPI interface KDE4, but not yet KDE3 krobattreader added an ATSPI interface some years ago as opposed to XPDF XPDF draws the image itself so you don't get the text and it doesn't yet use ATSPI and other toolkits like XT et cetera so this is just about technique but then in practice a lot of applications still aren't accessible just because the way they work so for instance here I have a Linux machine I just make it bigger for you to see and I add yeah I'm waiting for it to reappear why doesn't it reappear the more effect ok so this is a different layout of keys dat I use for testing because it has a lot of things and while it's booting I will show you the basic principle of browsing in the screen just enabling highlight so you can see what's happening so on the brain device you can see that what is shown is the line on which the cursor is and you can see that it is highlighted oh sorry you can't because it's too low here it is and so if I type things automatically when it goes off then the brain display follows what happens now if I run for instance omix which is a text mode application for tuning the audio levels well by default you get what's the current level but if I go down with the arrow key the brain device doesn't follow just because the cursor of the application doesn't go down there is a little less than sign which goes but it's not useful for the screen reader so this application is not so much accessible and this is actually always the problem it's just stupid details like this which are needed to fix another example here is just a dial box in which you have a field and which is a label and a field and sometimes yeah oh yeah sorry just wait that's it so here you have a dial box with labels and fields what often happens is that you first put labels fields and then in the screen reader program you first see the labels and then the fields and you don't know which fields corresponds to which label and it's just a stupid thing like this so come on so just like css just don't think about visual layout just think logical order for text applications put the cursor in the right place automatically and just talk with the users to know what would be needed and if you're crazy enough just use the accessible software so how about Dibian I won't show the Dibian installer because it takes some time but it just works from the start you boot with the CD-ROM you plug the USB device and then it works you can access it you can install Dibian by yourself it's really great you can test it if you want it's broken but it should be fixed for now speech is not supported that would mean it needs some support and adding a TSPI support would allow a lot of other technologies to work about Dibian distribution just to emphasis the need for a text application always provide text equivalence of tools so please package them so now about the IDs there are already tags interface text mode or UIToolkit GTK that already provides a good clue about whether it is accessible we could add some special tags accessible with which would express that a package can be used through a TTWI screen reader of provides an ATSPI interface and even further you could even have a tag that says a user tested it with for instance GNOME Orca and said that it was accessible and so for the user he can quite quickly select the application the packages according to what works even further we could ask a task-cell element the Dibian installer that would automatically select the accessibility packages and tune the little stupid parameters that helps accessibility or even met a package well this has to be discussed we see in more generally and not only packaging well please subscribe to the Dibian accessibility if you are interested in please join, please help a lot of help is needed we could also for instance add an accessibility chapter to the installation manual actually I wonder why it's not here already but there was also an idea maybe to add just a chapter to the new maintenance guide just like a lot of stuff like internationalization and things like this this is one of the items that developers should be aware of and even more generally please be kind and patient with the blind people the problem is that it's difficult for them to use the software it's even more difficult to explain the problem they are having for instance you may I said it a few minutes ago Braille doesn't follow that doesn't mean anything to a usual developer and please just discuss forward to the Dibian accessibility list also to get some other people and then understand that it just means that the cursor of your application is not put at the interesting place and so the screen reader doesn't automatically knows the place that is interesting so it's just as simple as this and yeah you can contact your blind institute if you maybe want to discuss with people interested in computers and Dibian for instance that should help a lot just having free software in the blind community and as well have blind community into free software so just as a conclusion so accessibility is important Dibian is quite is one of the leader in accessibility but we should do better so you have all sorts of resources on the website which is not related only to Dibian that's why it's not on the Dibian website so that's it so if you have questions please do ask yeah well you can just install the package the problem is it's relatively old I mean the GNOME orca software is being developed really really fast and so to make it simple just install the package and you have not so old version but still a bit old if you really want to get the latest version you have to reinstall GNOME by hand mostly just because to get the latest fixes accessibility fixes you need the newest GNOME version etc that's kind of a problem at least the simple solution exists yeah other questions I think we've run out of time if you have more questions you can of course yeah please do thank you in a few minutes we will have Holger Lefsen talking about debian adieu in debian main