 Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call the September 27 meeting of the Redevelopment Board to order. This open meeting of the Arlington Redevelopment Board is being conducted remotely consistent with the extension of the Governor Baker's executive order of March 12, 2020, due to the current state of emergency and the Commonwealth due to the outbreak of the COVID-19 virus. For this meeting, the ARB is convening via Zoom, as posted on the town's website identifying how the public may join. Please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating via video conference. Accordingly, please be aware that other people may be able to see you and take care not to screen share your computer. Anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording. So let me first confirm that all members of the Redevelopment Board are present and can hear me. We'll take a roll call, starting with Ken Wow. Yeah. Eugene Benson. Present. Melissa Tintacolas. Melissa. I see Melissa. She is here. And our newest member of the board, Steve Revillac. Welcome. Thank you. Present and able to hear. Wonderful. And I am Rachel Zenberry, chair of the board. So we will start this evening by opening with the continued public hearing docket number three, six, six, five for 645 Massachusetts Avenue. And Jenny, I believe that you have an update for us on this hearing. Yes, my office received an update from the applicant requesting a continuation by the board to October 25th, which is the second meeting in October. Okay, super. So we would just need to vote to continue that hearing. So let's go ahead and take a roll call vote. Do we hear a motion to continue public hearing docket number three, six, six, five to the meeting on the evening of October 25th. So move. Second. We'll take a roll call vote. Ken. Yes. Gene. Yes. Melissa. Melissa. She's on mute. Melissa taking a roll call vote to continue the hearing for three, six, six, five. Can you hear us? Now I can. Thank you. Okay. Yep. So we're continuing docket number three, six, six, five to October 25th. Just need a yes or no for the motion. Yes. Okay. Thank you. And Steve Revolack. Yes. And I am a yes as well. So we will see the applicant on October 25th. All right, we will now open a new public hearing for docket number three, six, seven, three for 455 to 457 Massachusetts Avenue. Jenny, do we have the applicant with us here this evening? Yes, we do. We have John Murphy. Who is the developer and we have Cynthia Pesciuto, I believe it says Cynthia P. Who is the property owner. Great. Thank you. So John or Cynthia or both of you. Can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. Hi, John. So this evening you'll have up to 15 minutes for a presentation, followed by questions. First, we'll go to actually the director of planning for any comments and followed by questions from the board and public comment before any deliberation. Rachel. Robert is here for the applicant as well. Oh, okay. And what we'll have this evening for the presentation will be John Murphy, the project manager. We're going to have please appear Slavic, the architect, Aaron Markey, the civil engineer and Cynthia Pesciuto. We're here under application environmental design review. And we're seeking to convert that building or the buildings on the corner of Mass Ave and Medford Street in Arlington. People will be familiar with the block it's the leader bank building out front, the, the old pizza shop to the right of that and down Medford Street the various retail shops. We are proposing to add a second floor to the one story brick commercial building. And we basically would consolidate as the planning department has indicated the Medford Street portion of the property with the Mass Ave portion of the property. John Murphy is going to talk about how the development is going to work. However, the board should know, and the members of the public should know that the property will be subject to the historical commission. Not all of the property is subject to the historical commission, but the Medford Street portion is, and that should kick in all of the property in terms of going before the historical permission we're not going to do that, until we get beyond the building. We are proposing a mixed use building. And as I've indicated a two story mixed use structure, 13 residential units are being proposed one studio 12 what one bedroom units, two affordable units. And that would be 50% of the total units that are provided and 10 of the 11 existing commercial spaces would remain resulting in a total commercial area of 7,802 square feet and parking was going to be provided on site with a parking garage, as well as parking outside parking garage will have 14 parking spaces. Now Rachel, I know that you like to get right to the guts of proposals. I'm going to turn it over to John Murphy and have John Murphy talk about the proposal, and in turn will bring in Peter, and will bring in Aaron, when their areas come up as well. I want to point out that we spent a good deal of time right reading Jenny's report to the ARB, and we've tried to address issues raised by Jenny in that report. John will talk about some of those. If he doesn't talk about some of them, some of them, I will later on john jumping. Thank you. And thank you everyone for taking the time tonight again my name is john Murphy would summit real estate strategies for the record and working with the baschuto family on this application. I won't repeat anything that Bob said but just to give a little bit more of a summary maybe Jenny if we could just jump to the rendering that shows the corner, the leader bank, just to kind of describe a couple of things. This one, I mean of course not in this angle but is this the one. Yes, that is yes. So while she's doing that I will just jump right into a couple of important things to note. Almost all of this development is existing foundation to remain therefore nothing is being taken down the entire first floor of this property as you wrap around the corner all the way down to park terrace. So I think that through the nail salon is is already remaining, as everyone can notice this there. The side on mass have is already two stories. So obviously our proposal is to extend that two stories to round this entire building off. So, the one question I know is going to come up is how the back of this building is working. So if you look at that Papa Gino space which has been vacant for some time, it just out into the rear of that parking lot the existing space is 3269 square feet. So what we are proposing to do is keep the front 1460 square feet of the frontage on mass have which we do have a tenant for that space already. And if we do ever if we do get to the civil plans or other plans showing the floor plan you can see that the existing Papa Gino space juts way back out into that parking lot. What we are proposing to do is basically chop off the back part of that space, which it's extremely deep so now picture the rear of the building is all aligned. So there's no more jut back out into the parking lot. What we are then going to propose that we do is build a podium. I don't know where that the old Papa Gino space jogged out into the parking lot, but a podium right there and then building units above it. So we're taking up almost the same surface area that was taken up from this building originally, we just created parking with residential units above it. With that being said, well I guess one more thing, the only other commercial space we are altering would be on the mass have sat side where we added the lobby to the building where we have our bike room, our mail room you can see it is right there, which is convenient for because it allows access to both sides of the property there's an alleyway that goes out back. When we have long term bicycle parking inside there as well as short term bicycle parking outside. We did send over the specs for that kind of last minute and I'll let the architect kind of walk through what our lighting plan is, as well as what what the bicycle parking exactly looks like. But in summary, that's that is what we propose you will notice above leader bank, the top story step back a little bit. That is actually how it is currently, and it's done that way it's that is saying exactly where it is it's done for structural and load bearing reasons we really cannot move that. And that is something to just note as you're looking at this kind of development. When you're building a top of your existing foundation like this you really do have to strictly adhere to to what you do have and work around that. So we've had many iterations of this project even more stories at time but we do feel like this does blend in pretty pretty well we believe that we can make this work and it's all kind of coming together nicely for us. With that being said, I'm going to turn it over to the architect gear. If you maybe want to touch on the lighting plan, maybe materials, kind of the look, everything that we were looking at as we were putting this together just quickly. I do, I have a timer going here we're about eight, six or seven minutes in so just got a little less than 10 minutes left. All right, so we're doing good, we're doing good job. You could actually bear with me for a minute I'm going to take this down and find the better copy of this this is very it's a it's this is a scan. So just you, it's okay with me if you keep talking if it's okay with Rachel I just want to find a better image to look at. I would be great if you had to see a clear image of this rendering. Okay. That black and white photo like it's always been there. So I'm Peter slow with market square architects. So to sum up with john said this is an addition and conversion 13 residential units to an existing commercial property. Largely achieved by completing the second story and replacing some back to house commercial with units over parking. Mostly for the aesthetic we aim to refurbish and enhance the commercial frontage and some of the historical aesthetic along Mass Ave. And to enhance the existing commercial with the design of the new structure along Medford Street. And we've used materials that are, you know, play well with the historical languages there. This construction has also been considered to ensure that the existing commercial tenants will not be displaced. So the other couple of things john asked me to touch on. I understand the lighting may be a concern, especially in proximity to other residential apartments in the area. We intend to provide the minimum feasible to provide a safe living environment, particularly at the two pedestrian corridors surrounding the garage at the rear. So those those existing existing street lights on the park terrace. The back of the structure will remain they'll be adequate to light that piece of the property. And then anything that needs to be, you know, filled in at the ends of those corridors will be achieved with a couple of downlights right over the entrance and they'll be adjustable to ensure we're not shining light on to adjacent properties. So the indoor bike storage from what I understand may be a concern as well so that was all done in accordance with the bylaws. It's inside the lobby there easy access to a public way. And then I believe we provided the spec from another project which is in conformance with those bylaws they're essentially the you shaped bike racks where you can pack to side by side with adequate space on either side. So that I think we'll hand it off to Aaron or do you want to hand it back to you, John. Yeah, Aaron if you maybe want to step in and talk about the layout of the existing conditions for parking back there, how it circulates currently. You know what we are proposing. Sure, John, and then you other any other relevant points as well. Thank you. Sure. My name is Aaron Mackie. I'm the civil engineer. I'm with Allen and major associates. Jenny if we could first take a look at the existing conditions plan in the civil set. It is one. Yep. Perfect. So you can see the existing spaces there to the rear of the building along Park Terrace. They're not tandem spaces so they're not efficient and they will be blocked in those 14 total but only six are actually accessible. So the remainder eight would be blocked in. So the circulation is not ideal. The plan is to formalize a drive aisle, you can we'll see on the following sheet. This is what John was talking about in the rear that if we go to the next sheet Jenny we do show exactly the. It would be the site demolition plan, exactly the portion of the building that's going to be demolished. You can see it with the bold line go if you keep going out a little bit. The building to be removed. So that's the the rear of Papa geno's that's going to be removed and that's the general vicinity where the proposed podium garage will be. We can just move on to the layout sheet and we can take a quick look at that I know times are concerned. So the gray hatched is the addition area, which will be podium parking with the units above. We have a 20 foot wide drive aisle. We are proposing 16 parking stalls will have a formalized ADA stall close to the garage entrance. We are providing a enclosed dumpster enclosure. It's angled there. You can see the angle that was done to allow because park terraces narrowed allow a easy pickup it for trash removal. A concrete pad with eight short term bike spaces, a long park terrace would be. Yep, right there in that corner. If at the top of the page, you could we provided the bicycle parking calculation. We figure the minimum required is 6.3 and we are proposing a short term spaces. And also we did count the long term spaces which will be interior. The minimum requires 20.6 we're going to propose 26 spaces inside. And right to the left of that table Jenny we have the parking summary so we did calculate the required parking to be 31.9. We are providing six spaces, where there was 14 existing. Let's take a quick look at the zoning table which is on this sheet, which shows the minimum lot area that's going to remain the lots going to stay that's 18,929 square feet. The frontage going to remain the minimum front yard setback we have is zero. It's going to be existing foundation to remain. The rear rear yard as well the foundation is right up against Park Terrace, that's going to remain. And I know the floor area area ratio will be discussed. You can see on note number three we did put that calculation on the plan. So we have 28373 gross square feet divided by the lot area of 18,929, we have a 1.5 floor area ratio and that's, that's the requirement for the zone so we are in compliance with that. So with that, a quick broad brush of the layout plan but I'll pass it back to you john if you got any closing remarks. Bob, can I say something. Yeah, we are seeking relief for a number of different issues. Landscaped open space usable open space setbacks, the drive aisle. Lighting and some other issues as well. All of these release that we are seeking are within the jurisdiction of the ARB that's our position. I, we believe our proposal and the report to the ARB from planning indicates this comports with the substance of the master plan. It comports with the substance of the master plan, because it's going to be mixed use, and we're going to be supplying housing residential housing in the town, which the master plan seeks to achieve. So we're doing that, and we're converting space that here to four did not have that kind of residential space, which will now have that kind of residential space, and I believe that the proposal is going to be be a decided improvement to Arlington Center, and, and hopefully, if this proposal does get approved, it may encourage other property owners in the center to do some improvements to their property as well. So that the center becomes a vibrant area as it as it was many many years ago in a different guys. That's all I have to say. I'm all set to I think we've reached our time so I'm sure that more questions will come up we can expand on different things but thank you all for the time. Great. Thank you very much I really appreciate the thoughtful proposal and looking forward to reviewing it. Before I open it up to questions from my colleagues on the board and turn it over to Jenny rate and Kelly line who I apologize I forgot to include in the earlier roll call so thank you both for putting together such an comprehensive memo and I wanted to see if either you Jenny or Kelly had anything that you wanted to add before we take questions on the board. I'll start and then Kelly, feel free to jump in if there's anything else. Okay. Okay. Okay, so I think that the applicant actually gave a pretty thorough overview of everything and is interested in being responsive to a number of the points that were in the memo. I also had some correspondence in between which then led to some you know a couple of updates as was indicated by the applicant. I think the things I would just say are still areas where it might be helpful to have some information are the following. The first one is with regard to the sort of special features you know the lighting, the signage is still a little is a little bit unclear to me. Just like a little bit more information about that, and also still a little bit unclear about what's happening with the existing tenants there were some of the plans said named prior tenants that are no longer there and just need to better understand the existing tenant structure, making sure that nothing is there. Are they proposing changes or not. And then the other item would be the. I'm sorry I lost that on my screen. Signage. Oh, the other area would be the circulation on the site. And this was raised, you know I think it's a challenging it's a it's a tight space in the back but I think it would be helpful to just better understand how they envision deliveries and trash removal with the proposal that I don't think that this was mentioned in that brief presentation but we, the applicant has approached the town to think about a way to make the park terrace the sort of the parklet that we have installed there to become a little bit more permanent and if that were the case I do think that there are some circulation issue that issues that should be discussed in relationship to this proposal. And that still needs to be discussed. And that's with regard to, you know, potential delivery trucks or vehicles. The trash removal as I mentioned and of course people coming and going for their parking spaces in the back which is not and none of those things are new to the building but they would be slightly different and potentially a very modest increase. I think that's worth just understanding a little bit more about that from the applicant. The last thing that I'll say is I actually think it would be helpful if the applicant might consider going to the historical commission a little bit earlier, rather than later in our process, just to start that discussion would be useful, because I heard the applicant state that even though four to four up the Medford Street side of the property is technically an historic protected property and whereas the massive one is not listed on our inventory is what that means. But they suggested that they wanted the whole building to be reviewed. If that's the case I think that they should start that sooner rather than later in the process would be my my guidance to that applicant. I think that those are the main things I wanted to comment on Kelly did I do you have anything to add. Nothing additional. Thank you. Okay. Thank you Rachel. Do you want me to answer any of those really quick. Rachel. I was going to ask you to address. Why don't we start with the existing tenant structure and then I'd like to go to signage. But that one's really easy because everyone that is there is staying there. We're not. Nothing is changing. So what it means by existing commercial to remain. It's existing commercial space and the tenants that are currently there on leases with the owner. Great and you have two existing vacant spaces you said that you have one perspective tenant lined up. Can you give us the type of tendency. Is another tenant already in the building. And that's for the Papa G knows old space to be clear, because in the other spaces are lobby. But there is one other existing vacancy. Sorry. Yes, go ahead Jenny. Just the artful heart space which is still as our full heart at least on the plan. That's the other one that was unclear to me what was happening with that space. We're just actively trying to lease it out. And then what is your approach to to signage for the both the existing tenants and the new tenants as well as the building signage. Well for the actual tenant space. I am under the impression that there's all tenant signage has to be reviewed if a new tenant were to come in and propose something what we you know the landlord also has to approve that which is a conversation we have with them privately before it gets in front of the board. You know the goal would be to keep things relatively in line with it within reason it's still allow the tenants to have, you know some uniqueness if possible but I guess our plan would be if something is presented to us we're not changing anyone's existing signage because that's kind of a private landlord tenant issue and no one's come to us either to try to change their signage. So all the existing signage for the commercial spaces would remain as of now. That's something that I actually like the board to discuss especially in light of the significant changes to that to the building so I won't we're not going to answer that now but I think during our discussion point that's something that I would definitely like the board to weigh in on. And then the other area that Jenny asked that I'd like more clarification that I'm sure my colleagues will also request clarification on is the circulation on site specific to the park terrace parklets that has been proposed. Yeah, so existing we have I think it was Eric and correct me for wrong 14 parking spaces 16 now. I mean as anyone is familiar with the area as far as I'm concerned there's no designated loading zone there on Medford street and the way that I know everything is used right now from Arlington Catholic to tenants on both sides of Medford street as well, you know as our tenants as well. People just pull off to the side and in part terrorist or kind of make do with any space they can grab temporarily because there is no necessarily designated loading zone that I'm aware of trash is not necessarily a concern because they can pull right at an angle and they can either back if say that's cut off they can back down to the parking lot and leave cars are going to be able to turn around in our parking lot as it's constructed with a new application and pull out currently it causes more congestion because the tandem spaces everyone is always backing out and turning a little bit of a cluster so I do think that even though we have two more parking spaces it's going to be greatly more organized and easier to see pedestrians etc now some of this may or may not be necessarily viewed as a big concern depending on what does happen with you know park terrace and one of the thoughts just because I'll just touch on a quick is like it's worked out very rather nicely there we haven't had any complaints from anyone at our building that not being able to get through. I know that the businesses have greatly enjoyed having that outdoor seating area so the kind of thought was it's not really can, it's not really a part of this, this hearing but I will say the thought was the family would be willing to donate to the seating and maybe a pergola or structure if everyone was able to collaborate together and kind of create a little park with their and more of a permanent basis. Obviously that's not that here now so it's a little bit hard to talk about as a process which we that goes with that but if that is something that would happen we would definitely support it we'd want to be involved. I don't think it's what I'll just say is it's working right now. We haven't had any complaints I think we're improving our circulation especially with less cars backing out. So, I mean the way that we're looking at it. Yeah we don't we don't see it as as an issue. Great. Thank you. And the last question that Jenny had that was regarding lighting if you have any clarification on the existing proposed site lighting. I think Peter touched on this briefly but there are plenty of street lights right there we did propose to sconces over the entrance of the lobby. Just to kind of highlight that that that is an entrance. You know we're not trying to turn the back of this building into you know Gillette stadium or anything like that we do have, you know people living in that area with windows in facing in the garage area so we would have lighting up underneath the garage so basically it would shine down into the space but if you are walking by. It's not like a light would be pointing out of the garage at you would be almost think of it as interior lighting. And then you do have some polls back there already. So that would be sufficient light on the street. I would just like to lighting in that new alleyway that's being created between the back of the existing building and the side of the grudge. I'll just ask Peter did you, did you, I know that you looked at this do you. You hop back on and just what I would imagine is we would definitely have we have lighting I know that we'll have lighting over the door, going back we might have either safety lighting along the ground to highlight a pathway, which is probably the most what would happen there. Yeah, I think from so our interpretation is the street lights will provide enough illumination to you know light up that alleyway, and we intend to provide one fixture at each of those doors so that egress stair you can see on the screen to your left, as well as the door into the lobby there will each have one adjustable down light. It's a floodlight basically so that will illuminate that end of the path. You know, and that'll be on all night, and they'll be adjustable so that we can control where that light goes so that it's not, you know pouring under the neighbors property. Right. Right. Okay. And then, while we're just on that alleyway that the back of that building is a sea of pipes and equipment right now is the intent to clean up the existing back of the building in terms of all of the existing tenant equipment or what's planned for that alleyway I know that I saw some landscaping in there. Yeah, everything is going to be cleaned up and then what you do see that in that alleyway on the civil plans are pervious pavers for drainage purposes but yes, everything is going to be cleaned up look vastly different than it does currently. Great. Thank you. So, with Jenny's questions being addressed, I will turn it over to Ken for any questions that you have for the applicant. Can I say something one more time Rachel, please, Vanessa, please go ahead on the historical commission comment that Jenny made. We don't concede jurisdiction in the historical commission over the massive portion of the property. But when we go before historical, we are going to have to present the entire plan for them to look at. And that was my point but I am not in behalf of my client conceding jurisdiction in the historical commission over the massive portion of the property. I want that to be clear. That's a hopeful clarification. Thank you. Thank you. I still advise that starting discussions early would be useful. Great. We'll go to Ken. Thanks Rachel. I encourage a full, full hardly support this mixed use project. This is a good step going forward. This is something that I've been looking for for quite some time. But with that said, I do have a couple of comments. Let's not off with is this parking garage enclosed. When I look at the plans it looks like there's walls and windows in the parking garage on the first floor. Peter, can you step into describe the walls and the windows. This I'm addressing Peter the architect. Yes, if you can scroll down on the last render I think we clipped the back of the garage there you can get an idea of about the head height of those openings so it'll be. There's some dumpsters in front of it. So it will be will continue that I think it's in the elevations actually will will continue that same material from the wall above up a little bit. It's the one on top on the sheet. There you go. We'll have clapboard at the lower level there over a very thin brick base, and on the sides as you can see in the plan there there will be openings which will meet the minimum to make this a passively ventilated garage so this won't need mechanical ventilation. Okay, so you're saying that the garage right now will not require mechanical ventilation so you'll have. I don't know I think it's a third or one half of the elevations being open. Okay. Going back to what Rachel has stated earlier. You sort of creating one alleyway and half an alleyway on either side of the new building. I would like to see you guys maybe do a, an elevation or a sketch of that alleyway there and realize what that's going to look like. I want to envision this as a, an alley, where it's seeing you block back to back of the stores, and then seeing you block on the garage. I'm more of a, I want to see it more like, like, I don't know, one of those small, tiny streets in Paris, you know, where you have a little more romantic paved cobblestone roads and it's, it's something elegant you were my walking down. Not something you're afraid to walk down. This is the center of town I don't want it to be like, this is not a nice area to be in. You know, I think, I think there's a parking lot out back that way there's a church. It's a very nice open parking area you want to have a, it could be a very nice way in to some of these stores in the back, or a way into what's below the parking garage. I just want to see what you guys want to do there more. If that's okay to ask for. If I would now go. Can you, Jenny, can you go to the second floor please. floor plan itself. Yes, please. Thank you. I'll start with you left one shaft. I think there's a couple of spaces below. I believe there's a couple of restaurants there right, but one's a diner. Once a Chinese restaurant and the other one is a Mexican place. If my memory goes correct. And I don't think all that that one shaft will will do it. I think you have to split that shaft up so it's above each space. You're bringing horizontal duck work across all these, the back of all these shops from different places. And that's just gonna be a nightmare to fire rate and separate. You following me. Yeah, I hear what you're saying can I believe both of the restaurants are down that end so this is. I actually have design build MEP on this project, but the intent would be that since this structure does not exist here now, you know, you could effectively create that duct work, and then switch it over once you have the chase in place so minimum interrupting space is there. But I hear what you're saying you would need multiple chases if for example there was a space on the other side of the building. At this time we don't have that. I would just strongly consider, consider that gives you more flexibility for spaces below to. And, you know, we're now you're early enough laying out these units. The question now is, if we were to look at look at these units closer. If I look at your unit a five. It's down the inside corner and another alleyway there. Is there a window to that bedroom. No so that would be a shared light bedroom. And I mean we you know we get into this past SD as to how that would work but effectively that wall there would not be the ceiling. Okay so essentially saying that's a studio. Well, sure. Okay, well, I'm not going to go semantics. All right, and then if you look at some of these other units here. The one on a 12 and on the other corner a 12 a 11. If you look at a 11 you have the living room at the actual corner which is the most open space, and it reads the best. Can't you do something similar to that in a 12 where you have the bedroom in the corner now where you had the opportunity to have the whole space up that way there. And then you just flip the dining room. I mean, leave that where it is leave and move the living room over to that corner there take the bedroom and closet over the other side now you got something very similar. And you have nice corner views. I mean, I, we generally do our best to make that happen and that unit actually looked at for a very long time to try to make that happen. It's actually because of how narrow this block is overall. And if you could scroll up just a little bit you can see that dimension there. Just the way the corridor works out, you can really only get that living room on the corner efficiently in one unit. It is I mean I don't really have an answer for you as to why but I did look at that for that reason for a very long time that we weren't able to make that work. I would just rather see where now you have a window into a closet and a window to a bedroom I rather have both those windows into living room as opposed to having one window in the living room quality of space there you try to create a nice space there to maximize your rent. So, you know, I just recommend looking at it again. Okay. So the stairway that goes down from the second full on the second floor. Is that something you can add on to the building or you're going to cut through the existing structure of that. I assume that's the Chinese restaurant at the corner right. That is the Chinese restaurant that will be coming out of the tenant space yes. So you so you're actually going to cut into that your floor space and go down that way there. So you're already cutting there and can you put, I would just go the same way I'm the way this is laid out. You got the living room right in the alleyway there I would smooth the stairs down a little further into a alleyway there and then somehow see if you flop the bedroom in that corner there or living in that corner. Right now, you just have a big blank wall there where you had the opportunity to throw some windows there. And add some more light and not have not relying on this alleyway here for all your light and ventilation and I know you're not getting any views you just looking right across to the other window. You know, it just doesn't seem like your maximizing what you got there. My other suggestion to you is in this alleyway here typically I've seen in the past is if you have bedrooms lined up in the alleyway there. I would offset the windows, such that they don't look straight across from each other. Same with the living room if you just moved it down one move it over like a couple of feet one way and yell you yell a couple of yellow way so you look straight into another wall, as opposed to indirectly into the unit. I'm just these are just suggestions I'm trying to. I like the fact that you're doing this these pommits up here, but but I want you to maximize it, you know, make these nice units I don't want to see seem like oh well, you know, they do is make shoes in the town and you get these crappy units. They're more crappy but you know I'm saying I want to maximize the nicest of these units and they'll have nice spaces up there and I think you're, if you take a little more time looking at that you might be like, get a little more out of that. But for that right now, I'm pretty happy with the project. I think it needs a little massaging, and we need to learn a lot more about the materials you plan to use. Elevations and they seem kind of vague you gotta give me materials maybe a blow up here we have today submit any material any material samples Jenny. No, not at that's not yet. Okay, I think that'll be a good next step to see, you know, are you using Hardy plank you should cement board using panels. Do you have any PVC and this I don't know exactly what you're doing here yet. And maybe that's true you don't need to do that right now to you talk to the historic but all that stuff would be nice. You know, it's a great opportunity it's one of the first one of us kind here and I don't want it to miss a few things and have, have you look back, look bad on. I think it's a great opportunity to good first step. Thanks again, Jean will go to you next. Thank you. Yeah, I agree with kin that it's a very promising proposal will be a nice addition to that part of Arlington Center and I agree we need to see more about what the exterior of the building will look like. Any questions. Maybe the first question is for the architect, or for maybe architect. Is there going to be a new roof on this building. Yes. What's the possibility of putting on solar, or at least making it so ready. And be solar ready right now and if this project goes for as we do for all projects we go out and try to get proposals for it but it will be able to handle those loads and be solar ready. Okay, that's great. Thank you. What's the proposal for electric vehicle charging stations in the parking area. There's someone back there I believe it's called out isn't an Aaron. It's right out. It's one of us uncovered spaces. Okay. I'm a little curious about the 2457 square feet of landscape open space. Jenny, can you put up one of the diagrams because I'd like somebody to walk me through how you got up to that number. I would like the applicant to indicate which plan they want up for this question. Aaron can Aaron can you step in. So yeah, I would recommend, could we take a look at C 102. So the open space we utilized would be the landscaped area in the previous paver area. So both the alleyways adjacent to the proposed podium garage, we're using the calculation per the definition, and also on the following sheets we do have a landscape plan we haven't taken a look at which we could probably touch on that right now while we're at it. So on the sheet L 101, a little further down in the set, second to last. So adjacent to the, the building and the previous paver walk. We are showing landscaping strips on either side so on the left plan left, we have an arbore arbore vital row as a little buffer between the a butter and a little screening. And then in between the existing building in the garage that strip is going to get some more lower shrub and smaller bushes. And we do have one flowering tree we are proposing needed dumpster for additional screening. So it's basically the two walkways make up most if I understand make up most of the correct gicked up in space, and we're mostly just pervious pavers, not really any trees shrubs, ground covers grass, anything like that, along the two walkways or there are. There's a variety row. Along the butter. Some of the plants we utilized looking at that table. We have some hydrangea. Some boxwood, pasta and daily Lee, those would go in the alleyway between the existing building and the proposed garage. In the space between the walkway and the butter. Is it possible to put in any real trees as opposed to over by days. It may be possible I'd like to confirm with our landscape architect on the, the, the minimum with she'd like to have there but five feet should be sufficient for some kind of larger tree but we do like the arbore vital row for screening but definitely would be open to what the board would like to see there. I think I mean I'm not speaking for the whole board obviously but just for myself I think when you come back next time. What are the possibilities for some trees. And then there can be some discussion about which seem to be the better options for that. Any other questions on the transportation demand management plan. Did I miss it or is there not really a written plan here but just a suggestion of a bicycle share. I think Mr. Benson that we are planning on complying with that. As you mentioned plan we do we are going to have covered bicycle parking. We would like to try to provide bike sharing as well. And we would also like to provide and I'm saying like to provide because there's no guarantee that we can make that happen right now but preferred parking for car car pooling individuals. We can indicate to the tenants that there would be preferred preferred parking for car pooling tenants. Can we mandate that. I don't think we can mandate that we can certainly suggest that if any one of those items are not to your thinking acceptable or the board thinking acceptable. We can do whatever suggestions you may have with respect to our complying with the transportation management act. Yeah. I guess I just think that you can't count the required bicycle parking spaces that are required by the zoning by law as part of your transportation demand management plan because they're already required by the zoning by law. And I need to think and maybe we'll have some discussion with the whole board about what a transportation demand manager playing might look like for this but I don't think you can count things required by the bylaw as part of just as a point Mr. Benson when I read that language in the transportation management act. I don't read it that we are to provide covered bicycle parking. I don't read it the way you may be reading it but I could be reading it wrong. Okay, I think. Those are all my questions for the moment. Thank you. Great. I see that Jenny has her hand up. Thank you. And I just want to get to the final question, which is really critical. Just to quickly get on this transportation demand management requirement, which we do need a transportation demand management plan that should have been my fourth point. I don't have a conflict in the bylaw time picking up on because we have a requirement for bike parking, but we also make it clear that as part of TDM. One of the three methods could include bike parking so as a count as a way of satisfying transportation demand management so that that might be relevant in a situation where bike parking is not being provided in this case it is being provided so I would suggest to the applicant to look at 6.1.5 C and the nine options that are available scratch out bike parking and go to the eight others and pick three that would be available to them to comply with the transportation demand management in order to be able to access the reduction in parking up there requesting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I had one question. I forgot to ask and maybe this is for Jenny. What's it mean when it says park terrace status unknown. I think that's a mistake that's in there. That's actually in there. I think that's in their civil plan. I brought this up with the applicant. It's a public part of the street. The back part is a private way, but it's the private way is all the way back in front of the condominiums, or I think it's a residential building anyway, adjacent to the parking lot and parking lot. The rest of park terrace is public. So I don't know why there's that parent medical in the civil plan that says status unknown. I don't know where that might have come from. Maybe the applicant can illuminate. I'm not sure I'm in there. So the, our survey department would do research and determine if they could figure out if it was a public way in the with based on their research and they must not have come up with a solution there but maybe we can reach out to you Jenny and, and get some plans and we can get that updated. Yes, that would be great. Thank you so much. Great. Thank you. We'll move on to Melissa next for any questions for the applicant. I appreciate why, at least with this project, the mixed use element bringing in the housing. My initial question is on, you know, the access to the outside from these units. Is this kind of a forming of a balcony from this step back here. Jump in and answer that so where you see above our lobby going across leader bank and around the corner. It is a very small something you could walk out on to I would not count it as gathering space which is why if you look closely at our plans it's not a common area for tenants as we don't think that that would be safe or a good idea this, especially above leader bank and plan left that's where the load bearing can support. So yes, technically it is a very small I guess you could call it called balcony. But again private for those couple of units that have access right to it. So from this image, how many units has access to this outside space. I believe it is to is that right there. It's, I mean, it's like here it is. And if you go up to our second floor plan you can see where they access those balconies. Page six. Not document. Jenny what document is that one. Trying to find it on. Yeah, the doors to leave. You, you want to look at this one or do you want to look at a different one. The floor plan, please. If you look at a 102. That's why I found it. Okay. It doesn't like when I scroll on the screen. That's why I keep doing that. Please bear with me. So in thinking about the project in terms of access to outdoors for individuals who are living there. Is there access to kind of a rooftop or common area then there's not. Is there any consideration for that I know we talked about solar and would it be able to with or kind of structurally kind of set up for that. Well, we can't, what we're looking at right here, we can't move and shift around. And by the time you add potentially solar and the mechanical systems on the roof, you're not going to have any, anything left. Really. Well, overall, I mean, I think at this point I don't have further questions. I think. So I'll kind of let it proceed from here. Thank you, Melissa. Steve, any questions? Yes, I do have a few. First, it looks like there is an elevator proposed, but not one currently. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. I noticed that the roof plan designated air source heat pumps in several places with, you know, a manufactured model to be specified later. Could you just talk a little bit about the heating and cooling for the building and to the to what extent will natural gas be used. Well, to my knowledge, unless the commercial tenants already have natural gas we do not intend to supply gas to the residential units. The heating will be entirely electric. The air source heat pumps will be located on the roof. They will be a mini split unit. So each room will have its own zone. They're the wall mount kind of units. Okay, that sounds good. So I just wanted to give to express a little appreciation for the memo on how flyover construction is done. I did not know that and it was sort of useful to understand, understand how the project would go together. Regarding stormwater management. It looked like a fairly significant reduction in runoff. And I'm wondering if maybe your civil engineer could just sort of like walk through how the overall system is designed. Sure, I'd be happy to. So we are grading and drainage plan. That is sheet C103. So we handled stormwater runoff with two different types of systems or BMPs we have the pervious pavers, which actually, creates it up. So we will, we have the addition roof leaders will feed into the porous pavers on the plan left so the downspouts from the new addition. So the porous pavers if you look at the details we there is a reservoir course. So under those porous pavers you'll have us a filter course and then a reservoir course lower. And then a perforated pipe so that the roof leader will feed right down and into that reservoir course and it'll be able to infiltrate into the ground. Now the other side the other porous pavers, that's just going to accept whatever rainfall falls on top of them. So you won't have quite as much stone beneath those that you can see the subsurface system that's beneath the garage. That's going to accept the existing roof so I know it came up earlier. All the pipes in the rear, we're going to eliminate those downspouts and we will collect them all and feed it to this underground system from the existing roof drainage. And we had to do that because we're creating this alleyway and we, the existing roof leaders just discharged right onto the pavement. So we had to collect all those and put them underground because we would have flooded out the alleyway there. So that system was designed to accept accept 100 year storm and infiltrate it back into the ground. So you won't see sheet flow coming off into Park Terrace anymore. So I'm going to go into the ground. And so on the left side of the plan that we're looking for the thick dashed line that sort of that sort of your underwater underground recharge for some of the downspouts. Yeah, so that's that's going to accept the, the proposed addition roof, which will be downspouts fed into a perforated pipe in the reservoir course of the porous pavement. Okay. And, you know, I presume that it will be done in such a way that it will also provide water to whatever plantings are intended for that, the landscape open space in that section. Yeah, I definitely think it'll help there won't be any kind of barrier between the stone and the landscape section so it definitely will help. Okay, cool. And then just lastly, I, you know, looking through the application I saw some mentions of, you know, restoration work on the parapet, the sort of decorative ornamental concrete on the Mass Ave side, and the possibility of doing a mural on the north side of Medford Street. I think those are all nice additions as well. Nothing further madam chair. Thank you, Steve. So I have a couple questions before I turn it over for public comments, and then we'll have a discussion afterwards. So my first question is really around the scope of work for the facade restoration. I mentioned that you were looking at a new tenant already for the Papageno space that storefront is not the most attractive is there and the plan to replace that storefront and and bring that upgrade that in addition to all of the upgrade work that you're doing within the within the space. Yes, there is what you can see right there where it says company co that is. Yes, that's all brand new, which we tried to show an example of signage which kind of shows maybe with or similarity to the to the nails to the left of it and just some plantings out front, but yes that is the new space. So on the Medford Street side. Those are all existing tenants I know that there's one vacancy over there. Actually Jenny the previous one was a better one for the question I have here with regard to assisting the tenants cleaning up some of the facades on on that side. So for example the first tenant to the right of leader bank you know there's a lot of old hardware look like it might have been part of an awning or other structures at some time. What is the plan in terms of investment for the existing tenants. We have a facade there between which would be kind of above windows in between both sets of windows would be planned to reappoint some of that brick and kind of clean it up to make good as new exactly how it was there are some cracks in there we've actually done a little bit of, you know patching here and there over the years but kind of we're waiting for a revamp all together to, to reappoint some of that brick. My question was more about the actual tenant storefronts and some of the old hardware and in items that seem to have been abandoned, actually within the storefront area itself. So is there. What is the plan in terms of the existing tenant storefronts on the Medford Street side. Well, old hardware that's not being used we can certainly remove but the rest of that I really can't provide comment on because these types of things get put privately between landlord and tenants and leases and we can't just go. You know that those are kind of the where you enter the private landlord 10 in contracts that we just can't really dictate those types of things. Sure, I think well I think that that's something that I'd like to discuss with the board in terms of taking a look at both some of the items that look like they need to be addressed in terms of maintenance on the exterior, as well as the overall signage especially the leader bank signage on this building in general during our discussion point. I do want to reiterate that I really would like to see a rendering of the back of the Medford Street building in that alley to understand what specifically will be cleaned up and what you will see. My understanding is that that alleyway actually leads to the residential lobby. Is that correct. That's correct. Okay. So at this point understanding the the elevations of the garage are very important as well. Let's see here, one of the other items that I think Jenny also mentioned that we need to better understand is the commercial loading and delivery plan. The dumpster enclosure did you have details. I didn't see a enclosure detail but I might have just missed that on the on the civil sheets in terms of the materials. Aaron I think that does call it out on there I believe correct. Yes, we do call it as an enclosure I'm looking at our details now. We don't have that specific detail on there so we can definitely like to see that if I could at the next meeting. Yeah, sure. No, thank you. Okay. I also would like to understand you spoke about the type of mechanical units again if we could understand the height of those units relative to the, the height of the parapet for at a future meeting that would be good to see as well. I think that's all I have for now. Let's see, before I turn this over for any questions or comments from the public. I'll just ask if any of our board members have any further questions will obviously engage in some discussion, following the following the public comment period. originally do have one. Please go ahead can just follow up. So let's say you have one handicapped parking space on the inside of the garage, furthest in. That's correct yes. So if that's the only one you have that's assume a van handicapped spot so there's clearance for a van 86 or 84 whatever that number is. Peter can you speak to the garage clearance. I guess it means those requirements yes. Okay. Rachel sorry. No problem. Anyone else questions before we turn it over to public kind of. All right, what this great just really quick sorry. I didn't know that's okay. I'm not waving. So the that point about the van parking space is important because it's actually you have sort of conflicting statements in your application about this, which I think I noted in my memo in one place if I didn't I'm sorry but in one place you said that it was just an accessible and ADA space but in another point in your narrative you said that it was ban accessible so I think making that clarification on the plan itself is also necessary, and then also having some consistent narrative around that would be useful. Because it does say two different things within the same application. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Jenny. All right, so at this point, we will go ahead and open and open the meeting up for or this item up for public comment. Any member of the publish public wishing to speak please use the raise hand function which is at the bottom of your zoom screen. I will call on you in the order that hands are raised. When I do call on you please identify yourself by your first last name and address, and you will have up to three minutes for your comments. One second. All right, so we will begin with Susan stamps. Hey everybody. Thank you. I'm Susan stamps wrapped in street, and I'm on the tree committee although I am not speaking for the tree committee we have not had a chance to talk about this project. What we talked about is the project next door which is Broadway Plaza, where 12 trees are going to be coming down in the next several months for complete reconstruction of the plaza walk walkways. And that is going to be a tremendous loss to that area of town. Can you hear me okay. I can if you could tie it back to this particular. Yeah, okay fine. So, I mean, sorry, and just to let you know there will be a public comment where anything you'd like to speak about at the end of the meeting you're more than welcome to. Oh, well no I was just. Okay, so just to emphasize that this is an area that already does and will even more in that the immediate future need more greenery. If you just look at the picture. It's a nice block. It could use a lot of greenery, and it could use trees to clean the air. That whole area is very hot. And I am wondering for one thing if the designers have thought about I understand that it's a it's a small space. I wonder if they have considered doing any green walls, living walls with plants on them. That would add very interesting aesthetic interest to the buildings and, and go a long way to helping heat island effect of that area and clean the air. So I wanted to bring that up it's it's new but you're starting to see it more and more to do the green infrastructure like the living walls. And I don't know what's available up there above the first floor but if there's any horizontal space where you could do any, any small trees or just anything you can do up there that would be good. The, the, there are a small amount of vegetation you are planning to plant is not going to do very much in terms of either aesthetics or cleaning the air or helping to absorb all the carbon emissions from the traffic. We would like it would be good to see a larger tree than the service Barry, and to see if you can make room for more trees in in some way. And finally, I would just mention that if you could work out a deal with the town to put some beautiful planters with flowers and, and greenery and so on if you see what a lot of retail places have done in East Arlington it's really very beautiful. And it would be nicer to make that area which is a central area of our town. Look, it's an opportunity to make it look really nice. So thank you very much. Thank you for your suggestions. The next speaker will be Greg man as mania. Yes. Thank you, Jen. My name is Greg mass mania on the operational director for our LLC. We are actually across the street on Midford Street we own property on the corner of Broadway, all the way to the region theater, which would be one three and five on Midford Street. I'd like to congratulate the owners of this property for investing in the future. In this particular project. It's exciting to me. For those of you who are familiar with that property we try to keep it at grade and improve it along the way we did a fairly large renovation, about eight years ago, and work with a historical society to bring our property up to grade. And that made by Rachel relative to the, I think it was really in reference to the owning structures on those retail shops. If in fact you want a first class rental property. I would strongly encourage that the landlord make one uniform awning if that's the, if that's the design he wishes to use or citing, with down lighting, similar to what we have. We have an awning that runs 180 feet around the whole property, which aesthetically, and also environmentally helps from an air conditioning standpoint. But when I look at this particular rendering. It's lovely, but when I look at all those hodgepodge awnings and structures. It's just not attractive. So that would be my only comment other than I congratulate the owners for investing in the future of this particular area. Thank you. Great. Thank you. The next speaker will be Don Seltzer. Thank you Madam Chair Don Seltzer Irving Street. I'd like to begin by acknowledging that this project is very much in the spirit of what was passed five years ago for mixed use development. It retains the ground for commercial space while supplementing it with apartments above. And I think this is very close to the vision that town meeting members had when they voted for mixed use development. The only problems that I'd like to bring up tonight have to do with meeting the bylaw requirements for open space. The landscaping, it seems like most of it is concentrated in these 70 foot long narrow alleyways on both sides of the garage. Running from Southwest to Northeast. The first 15 feet of these alleyways isn't going to receive any sun throughout the year. It really gets better as you move up the alley, but even at the far end, all you're going to get is four months of the year in which they get no sun at all. And the rest of the year, they're going to get about 36 minutes a day of sunlight in mid afternoon. And I really doubt that any of the plantings that are planned for there, other than the hosta is going to survive for any time. The other question is the usable open space. The application is claiming that they're somehow exempt, because the current property is non conforming and therefore they don't have to be conforming. Well this isn't true. There's no residential component of the existing property. There's no requirement for usable open space. It's the addition of 13,000 square feet of residential that triggers the need for adding usable open space somewhere. And it is possible. Because the housing starts at the second floor, any floor area, any roof area, I'm sorry, the first story can be used for balcony or rooftop, usable open space. It is doable. So I hope these plans can be adapted so that the tenants who live here do get some of this outdoor space as required by our by law. Thank you. Thank you. We have any other numbers of the public with us. Sorry, is there anyone else who wishes to speak this evening. Okay, seeing no additional hands raised, I will close public comment for this docket. I will turn it back over to the board for discussion. And as I do so, why don't I start by listing the items that that I heard that we would like the applicant to address in a future hearing and if there are any specific items that you'd like to discuss further or items that you'd like to add to this list I'll start by running through our roll call list again. So what I heard where we were looking for elevations of the sides of the garage elevations and renderings of the alleyway, especially of the area leading to the tenant space. More information regarding the building materials proposed. I'd like to request, I didn't see in the package that was posted online the color renderings that we've seen this evening I apologize if I missed it but we definitely would like to see those to be able to review those in greater detail for the next meeting. So we had a request to add in a black iron chase on the mass have side of the building, and to look at the required number that are needed for the existing tenants on the Medford street side. There was a request to take a look at offsetting the windows on the second floor in the residential units that face the alley. There was a request for material samples for the next meeting. A request to look at trees. In addition to or in lieu of the Arbor Vitey in the landscaped area on the far alley. So we had a request for a TDM plan using three of the eight suggested methods of meeting the TDM plan without using the covered bike parking as one of them. And details on the dumpster enclosure. Do you have kin for anything else that you'd like to see or any specific discussion points. I'm sorry there was one other one. I had also mentioned that I'd like to discuss or have the applicant look at a full signage, and perhaps on a plan for the full tenants. We have a tenant group within the selling. Go ahead. Rachel, you might want to add to add in the solar field potential on the roof plan. confirming that it's already. Yeah. Yeah, it's solar ready but it's just start out with this where you guys, where they plan to incorporate solar. solar panels. Yep. I also like them on the site plan to go a little further out. I don't want to two feet past the property line but I like to see what is across the street. What's next door, where the boundaries of the church, because I think it's, it's a lot wider behind. It's not as narrow passageways back there, and it's a lot more light coming in there and it's a major elevation that they can add a lot more windows to which will make it a much better than back alley. It's not really a back alley right now because you see those townhouses further down the street there that's actually a nice street. And it's set along that parking lot there's a nice edge. I think we've followed that rhythm along. I like to encourage that right along that facade there. It's, it's, it's a great project, I think they've done great. Just want to do a few more things like that. And I know we really can't tell them how to lay out the units inside, but I wish to do. I really wish they would just look at laying those units a little better where you don't have bedrooms with no windows with minimal light into living rooms. It just, you know, a little more effort, knowing that we were encouraged by the project maybe they will take that next step and do more work on it I would I would appreciate that a great deal. Sure I'll just know optimized unit layup. Okay. Thanks. And then one other one that I just saw in my notes to understanding the roof plan with regard to the mechanical units and the height relative to the parapets. Yep. Great. Jean, anything I did not have on my list or any items that you'd like to discuss with the other members of the board. Yeah, there are a couple of things that I didn't ask questions about but I wanted to raise them to the board to think about the outside bicycle parking is around back. And usually we require outside bicycle park and we do require outside bicycle parking. So when people are biking up to the stores, or to the residences they see where the outside bicycle parking is and, you know, and it's not going to be clear if they're biking up to one of the stores or to go in the front door that bicycle park short term bicycle parking is around back. I'm not sure whether there's anything we can do about that. But I just wonder whether there's anything that can be done to move some of the short term bicycle parking to either the massive or Medford Street site. I'm really not sure I just raise that because it's a concern that I had in looking at the plan. So I'll stop. I have another thing but just see if there's any discussion. I think it's an I will suggest or okay, I had, you know, I had thought of this and one of the things that we'd already kind of thought we'd want to implement it. If the park light came to fruition, I think it would be really nice because one of the best places I had envisioned for some more short term bicycle parking would be almost in that area in a section of it. So I guess theoretically we could put something maybe temporary but also maybe on sidewalk property so it does get a little bit hairy in and around there and there's also traffic in and out of the shops so you wouldn't want someone to come and find out the sidewalk on a bicycle and clip someone walking out of, you know, the talk area or getting coffee so that does get a little bit tricky I think but I did think that if the park let came to happen it would be really nice to incorporate it in there, which is something we'd want to contribute to as well. Just wondering if you have any suggestions or ideas for this. I think actually what john just said makes the most sense. I don't see a way to install something on the massive side, given the width, the sidewalk and all the other conditions that are happening in that area that particular intersection even. I don't think it would be safe, or viable. I don't see the dimensions of the dimensions even it is also of course the town sidewalk so mean it. It could it could be something we discussed, I don't see that being the best solution and then on the Medford side I don't. Similarly I don't think they have the width on the sidewalk to do something like that we actually did evaluate a lot of different options when we laid out the park let themselves actually Kelly did the laying out of. She's really familiar with the dimensions. It's not very much space so I think that probably migrating something to the park let in park terrace not on Medford would make the most sense. So we could talk about that, you know offline separately. Once we move into a phase of really talking about making that more permanent, which is this sort of separate. Well, I actually have, I'm sorry to interrupt Jean if you don't mind to run that topic of the park let Jenny is that something for our next meeting that you could prepare for the applicants so that, you know, and for the modification of the board understanding what that step is because it sounds like there is a desire to contribute to the permanent amenities which we may want to put into the special conditions. And I want to make sure that we word that properly in terms of what a process would be knowing that there is I'm sure a significant process that you need to go through in terms of the taking of a public way to make it a permanent amenities base for the for the town. Right. Yes, I can of course, I think we actually have started to take some steps and in having conversations about it. I recall though that there's a responsibility on the this applicant to provide us with a little bit of a more formal proposal of what they were talking about. I was alluded to that there would be different seating pergola. There were other things there have been many other types of things mentioned I think we need to hear from the applicant what they're, what they're willing to provide and then we can sort of work with that and of course will involve town council in a conversation as well. But I did just want to be very clear about this is not a part of our project this is not a part of the application. It was something that the owner is very graciously said this is working well for the tenants it's on town it's a town road, and if the town were so inclined to go down the path of making this permanent, we would support it. We really don't do as part of this project we don't technically need it, I think is very nice of them and it's a great gesture to offer some type of seating I would honestly not feel it very fair to include that as a part of the order of conditions is something we're volunteering that's not technically a part of this application but it's something that we want to do. But I just wanted to be very clear about that we could maybe provide a list of some of the things we envision but we have had a couple of conference calls even before this with other members of the town and some of the architects that would get involved in designing this layout, and we've already started to that conversation. But I think that's just I just want to be very clear about that. I appreciate that I think it is germane to this conversation given that there are quite a few concessions from the town bylaws that are being requested. In terms of the zoning relief. But again we can certainly discuss that as a, as a board. I'll turn it back over to you apologize. Just the second point I wanted to make, which was about the parking and I'm sort of a little bit thinking out loud for the other board members about this it sort of seems to me that all the parking would need be designated for the residents units of the building, and not for the commercial building just, I think need to make that pretty clear that that's what it's going to be and that the commercial tenants would not have access to that parking at all. It wasn't quite clear, or I couldn't find it very clearly stated maybe I missed it, you know the application material but that's what I'm thinking we need to do, even if we were to reduce the parking and I, and you know when the applicant is the traffic demand manager plan the other thing to think about is you get some more relief from parking if there are more affordable units so I'll just put that out as something to think about. The only is the intent Mr Benson parking would be for tenants only residential tenants, not commercial tenants, not commercial. I'm sorry residential tenants only not commercial. We need to do signage to show that we'll do that as well. Thank you. That was it. Thank you Jean. Melissa, any further questions or discussions you'd like to have with the board. I mean I think a little bit I have to go back to the bylaws to understand kind of open space and how we can make these projects better in terms of sustainability. I mean we are kind of seeing more innovative ways to deal with runoff capture rain whether it's rain gardens, the outside space and the narrow kind of plantings kind of agree with those may not be optimized in the best way. They're meeting the bylaw but they're not significantly and meaningfully helping I feel like and so I'd like to know a little bit more about that and Jenny that might be just a conversation with our town staff. In terms of the units again just to clarify know there's the affordables that are for rent and the other and the other units are for sale is that correct condos. They are all rentals. They're all rentals and what do you expect that like median like price or average price to be per month. It can range, I guess depending on the market. 2500. 2500 to 3500. Okay. And then I just want to probably kind of follow up on Rachel's point about the park let and maybe that I need to kind of see what the town has proposed because part of that's in the public right away it's my understanding. So, I'd like to see kind of what the town would expect and see as the optimal proposal for a park let in that area. And then I'd see like to see how it reconciles with maybe how it overlaps and maybe any of the areas that would be shared for access in terms of circulation with this project. I do think that it is, you know, can germane like Rachel said to this project, given the number of kind of the different allowances that we're looking for that for the special permit. So, that is that I think, at least, there's a couple other things but at this point I'll leave it at that for now. Great. Thank you, Melissa. Steve, any additional comments or discussion items that you'd like to weigh in, have the board weigh in on. You're on you. I didn't read. He needs to rejoin. I think he's having some technical. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Steve, you're unmuted now. There you go. All right. Well, after this, because I can no longer see any of you. Zoom is having a moment. I want to follow up with something that Melissa said and I and partially and this is this is dealing with usable open space, because I think this particular site is fairly representative of other B3, you know, commercial parcels in town. And we will likely run into this. Again, the way our bylaw defines usable open space it's kind of a combination lot coverage and massing regulation. And really, you know, I actually spent a fair amount of time over the weekend just sort of looking over the, it's like the general plans and thinking well where would you actually put it. The first instinct was to just lop off, you know, 2530 however many feet on the north side of on the high numbers of Bedford Street. You know, just put, take some take some space off there put it put it in a parklet. It's a historic building so I don't think that's going to, you know, that will is going to work. The next line of thinking was well, can we do the same thing on the, you know, on the sort of like the left side of Mass Ave as you face the building, which would leave a big hole in the streetscape. And, you know, to, you know, Mr. Seltzer is correct that, you know, we could do some on the rooftop, but only 50% because of the, you know, there's a limitation on on landscaped open space that is, you know, 10 feet above the lowest floor for the dwelling purposes. I think it's five three 16 or so. But, you know, there's, it is an area where I think the applicant will need to really need relief or we're going to have to do something really silly with the building which I think would be unfortunate. So that is the only comment. Next time I was would like a little since while we're on doing roof detail. I'd like to, you know, get a little information about the type of roof material that they're planning and, you know, basically whether or not it would be a high albedo roof. And I'm going to try rejoining. Great. Thank you Steve. So, um, I think, actually, could I ask the architect. I believe I saw that in the plans that you were going to the lead point with a high albedo roof for the reduction in heat island. Is that, is that correct? Have you identified the the roofing material in your plans. I don't believe that was indicated on the plan itself, although that may have been in the lead checklist. Okay, so I'll just add that to confirming the, the roofing type when you return. All right. Attorney and I see what do you need me to go through and go through the list again of requests that we have made this evening for your applicant to. Take a look at me. Try to take them down as you've indicated them, Rachel. If you can do it quickly, that might be good. Okay. Just so I'm sure I'm sure I have them all. Sure. Why don't I, I'll speed read through them and tell me to stop if you need me to check them off as you do it fabulous. We're looking for elevations of the side, more elevations of the garage elevations and or rendering of the alleyway space, especially the back of the commercial tenant space. Additional information on the building materials, the color renderings. I'm looking at the black iron chases for the existing tenants on the Medford site to ensure that there are adequate routing for for the restaurant uses and also to add one on the mass outside. Look at offsetting the windows in the residential units in the alleyway that are facing each other. Looking for material samples for the next meeting. Looking at substituting trees for some are all of the are varieties in the landscape area, the far landscape area. Creating a TDM plan. A dumpster dumpster enclosure details. A full signage or awning plan for the building confirming solar ready and showing where on the roof plan. Also in the roof plan, showing the mechanical units and the heights relative to the parapet. A larger site plan showing the larger context of the building within the neighborhood. Another note just to take a look at optimizing the unit layout. Understanding the steps the next steps in the making the park with permit specifically to itemizing the items that the the owners are interested in contributing to as permanent amenities. The parking is designated only for the residents and not for the commercial tenants. This will obviously affect your the items that you choose to include in your TDM plan. And clarify the type of roofing being used. I think we have I think we have all those. Okay. The one real quick thing, Rachel, because I don't want to come back with something and say we can do and we can't. The awning plan. It's very difficult because for example, the talk area, that's a part of his business. And one other tenant just redid theirs as well. It's a part of their marketing a part of their advertising. They spend money on these as recently as you know 2021 I don't. I honestly don't know what to do. So I don't know what I can come back with. But my sorry, can I just clarify what my request is. I'm not requesting that you come back and say that they all need to be identical, you know, I know that that's what one of the public comments where what I would like to ensure is that if there are, for example, for the areas that the two buildings, for example, that we need new signage for it that we really look at the at the sign band if there are tenants who have non conforming signs who are in need of an upgrade that we take a look at the building as a whole. And ensure that if there are signs that need to be addressed, we take the opportunity to do so while we are taking a look at the building. I do not necessarily agree that all of the awnings and all the signage needs to match and be consistent for the entire building I think having personally and again I'm not going to speak for the entire board I think personally that there's a variety and seeing the brand, you know, expression of each one of the tenants is is a good thing. But I believe that as you're upgrading the facade of the building, I would ask you to take a look at your tenants that are non conforming. And I think that we need to take a look at the signage as a whole. Did you have a couple of the specific examples just so I can hear bank is is one on the corner, which is significantly over signed. I'm just pulling up my rendering here. And there are signs and awnings on the Medford street side where side where it looks like for example there is abandoned. There's some abandoned lighting above awnings, you know, if there are there are definitely tenants who have not upgraded their signage in a significant amount of time. And it is definitely detrimental to the overall aesthetic of the of the building. Okay, so just quick follow up with this board that technically approved like approved leader bank sign, for example, and that facade facade or how did that even come to be. I was, I was going to say actually that's that. I believe that signage had been approved by the board a long time ago. Obviously. So, I may I suggest that I will work with the applicant on this short question. And we can't just unilaterally tell these commercial tenants, what we're going to do with respect to the awnings over their commercial space. We'd be in violation of their leases. So I think the board needs to know that we can certainly talk with them in terms of trying to get them to do some things. If they balk, we can unilaterally tell them that they have to do something that they're not obligated to do in accordance with the terms of their lease. Okay, we can certainly talk more about it but there is precedent for major renovations for reevaluating the entire signage plan of of existing of existing buildings. Again, we can certainly take this offline and discuss, you know, with with Jenny further. Jean, I just chime in on that and at least speak for myself on the awnings. At least I'm not looking for uniformity on the awnings or signage. I think it gives it character enhances kind of the walkability and attractiveness. I think that enhancements though can be made to existing situations and I think that's maybe where you can look at it, even if you're, you know, incentivizing your tenants to enhance clean. And if they were given some amount, a dollar amount, I'm sure they would find ways to make it look nicer. So those are things that I'm thinking of. Thank you, Melissa. Jean, you had something too. Nope. Okay. Thank you, Melissa. At Melissa's point. Could I, again, I'm going to follow up with the applicant on all of these items. We also have some other sort of minor items that we don't to go through all of every single detail right now but there were other things you didn't mention. Rachel, but so I can follow up with the applicant. What I, what I want to caution though is the next meeting is next Monday. So, if this was going to be continued. I would suggest, could the applicant realistically get everything to us in short order, essentially. I would suggest, I would suggest, John Murphy, that we cannot do it in one week. How do you feel about that? I would agree. So the next meeting meeting after that Jenny, the 25th. John that okay. Yep. Okay. Is there a motion from the board to continue the hearing to October 25. Tom. Second. Second. Right. We'll take a roll call vote. Ken. Yes. Jean. Yes. Melissa. Yes. Steve. Yes. And I mean, yes, as well. So thank you so much. And we will see you back on October 25. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So that continues docket number 3673 to October 25. We will now move to the next item in our agenda, which is docket number 3348, 833 Massachusetts Avenue, which is a continued public hearing. And for this particular item, we were had requested a, an update, a monthly update. For the progress. On the at what house at 851 mess. And I will turn it over to Jenny. And I believe that we have. I don't believe that anybody else is, is on right now. I think at best what we would ask for is an update on the meeting that was held. With the historical commission to understand, you know, the next steps that they're taking. I do have. I don't believe that anybody else is, is on right now. I think at best what we would ask for is an update on the meeting that was held. I don't believe that anybody else is on the meeting. I do have. I did receive a report from like champa. But I think that the applicant can speak with the, the, the attorney for the owner can speak about it a little bit further. Also, I was going to request that you close the public hearing tonight so that I don't keep noting it as an open public hearing, but rather will will continue an agenda item as requested monthly. And I do need that action to provide these updates and I can just put that on the agenda, but I'm not going to keep the hearing open. So I do, I do need that action to be taken. Sure. We can do that this evening. Thank you. Okay. Attorney and I see. Provide an update. We will last before the historical commission a couple of weeks back. And at that time, there was a letter that had been generated by Mike. And my champ were essentially indicated that we were, we had wrapped the building. And if you go by the building, you'll see that the building has in fact been wrapped when we had our, the item that, by the way, remained open was the surveillance. And that was a question of getting a hookup with the electric company. And I can ask Jeff noise about that in a minute. By the way, accompanying me tonight is Jeff noise and Monte, the architect I've asked Monte to be on as well. When we were before the historical commission, we had a discussion about what was going to be happening to the building. There was a discussion about the type of siding that was on the building. And the historical commission really didn't have any photographs that really depicted the type of siding that was on, that was preexisting on the building. I was able to come up with photographs, very clear photographs of the siding that was on the building just before the siding was removed. And I sent those photographs to Joanne Robinson. We are due back before historical October five. I imagine at that point, and by the way, we were supposed to be hearing from one of the representatives of the historical commission with respect to further guidance. Okay. I did hear from Joanne Robinson, but we did not hear from anyone else from the historical commission. My understanding is we're going back before a circle on October five. When we go back on October five, I believe that historical will be telling us the type of siding that we should be putting on the building. There was a discussion about different types of siding before the commission. And we don't have a consensus. We don't really know what we're supposed to be putting back on the building. So I believe we're going to learn that on October five. We're prepared to do whatever the historical commission tells us to do. Now, as I've asked Monte, and hopefully he is here to be here because Mr. Benson had a question that I wanted pursued. And that question was, can we do anything to add on to the rear of the existing building to retain the building? I think it's important to have in mind that our position here for has been that we are prepared to restore the building. And it's going to cost approximately $150,000 to do that. And once we restore the building, we're prepared to go ahead with the demo application and take it down. Once we restore the building to the satisfaction of historical, historical building, we are still inclined to want to go ahead and take it down and put up a new building. But I want Monty to talk because Jean Benson asked a very legitimate question about what could be done possibly to the rear of the building to read so we could retain the building and not in fact take it down. Are you there Monty? Hi Bob. Okay. Monty, could you talk to that issue, please? So that is one item that we did explore. And I think what the issue is is the proximity of the house to the CVS parking lot or the parking lot to the rear. So by adding to the rear of the house and the position that it's in now was something that we had issue with because essentially adding to the rear would put the residents right into the parking lot. And as you know, that's also partially the turning lane that kind of circulates everyone into the CVS drive through. So that that was an issue that we had with adding to the rear of the house and the position that it's in now. So is it your position Monty that the better approach would be to take the building down and put up a new building? Yeah, of course that that's something that again, we looked at in, you know, in response to that investigation or study that we did to the house. If there was a potential to take down the house, move it forward so that we can build something that is more adequate. And can, you know, provide the number of units that we think would make this more financially viable. So are you focusing not just on the site itself, but on the economics as far as the owner is concerned in terms of how the site could be developed? Yes. The with respect to your, your comment about moving the building up front toward Mass Ave. Would you repeat that again? So moving the building up towards Mass Ave. So again, I think that this is something that we've presented in the past and a couple of different forms, but shifting the building in a way that I think also addresses some of the urban planning initiatives that were developed by Arlington. It would also address those issues, allow us to build a more appropriately sized building that would fulfill some of the financial needs to, you know, hold up a renovation or a construction project like this. I believe that's where we are. When we're going, Rachel, when we go back before the historical condition on October 5, I believe I'm going to repeat what I'm saying to your board now in terms of the position on the part of the owner is that he would be prepared to go ahead and restore the building to the sat, the exterior of the building to the satisfaction of the historical commission. But once he's done that, he would prefer to continue with the demo application. I'm given to understand that most of the sign offs have been obtained with respect to the demo application at this point. Of course, we would need a sign off from historical and they have the ability to tell us how long it would be before we could in fact demo the building if that's in fact what's going to happen. I think that's my report to the ARB. Great. Thank you. Gene, I see that you had your hand up. Thank you. And thank you for presenting that. I appreciate it because I did ask last time whether it was possible to preserve just the facade. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. And then, you know, I've got the inside whatever to end up with a viable project. I just would like to read to you though. Something from the part of the. Special permit that was issued a number of years ago. And what it says is. It is acknowledged that 10 parking spaces. It is acknowledged that the plan of the site leaves space. Behind the Atwood house to accommodate a possible. Future expansion of the structure. And that no use of that portion of the site. We'll preclude any such expansion. It says other things with those of the point. So what Mr. French said. I think that's a good point. An expansion and back impeding on the turnaround for CVS. Is inconsistent with the special permit. That this board a number of years ago issued. Which anticipated that there might be expansion and back. And that the parking spaces. And the entire place. Are to be available. For an expansion and back. So I'm glad you looked at it, but Mr. French, I think looked at it not understanding. That what he has the ability to do. Is design something that does go back. Into the parking lot and turnaround lanes. And I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. In fact required. By the special permit. So I'm now thinking you should come back next time. And talk about the ability to do that. Now that you understand. That you do have the ability. To do an expansion and back. There. I point out to you, Mr. Benson, I think that you're going to see that. In the entire special permit report. There is language in that report that indicates. That the applicant at the time. Couldn't file a, could in fact file for a demo permit. So it was the anticipated by the then members of the ARB. That the building might not continue to stand. And could in fact come down. I agree. But you know what? What is sort of bothering me about this. Aside from the many, many years. In which the owner. I can see it all of that by the way. To deteriorate. Is now we're going to be faced with. What is it going to be a two year. Demolition delay coming up. Which is much. Depends on the historical commission. Which is much more than it would have been. If the owners had acted appropriately and quickly. So I. I think we're going to have a discussion on the board about what our other options are. At this point, because. I'm not sure I'm happy with the things staying boarded up for at least two years. At this point. Before it can get demolished. There's sadness to Benson. So. We'll see. I would think it's worth taking a look at the ability to actually do what I asked. Last time. Because the special permit allows it. Does it require it? I agree with you. But does allow it. Thank you. Thank you, Jean. Yeah, I'm taking a. Maybe a different approach than Jean is. And I know you guys said. My idea doesn't work. But it just seems such a waste. That we're going to force this owner to spend $150,000. To recreate this house. And then turn around and tear it down. Can we just find him $150,000. This, this bubble wrap looks ugly as anything. Okay. I agree with Jean. But I like to donate that to housing fund. And if I can get one family to have a photo house in Arlington. Isn't that worth it? I don't know why this bureaucracy is such that we can't do that. And it makes no sense to me. I'm not saying you wish I'm just asking the board. And then maybe Jenny can ask. I don't know. Council or if you have an answer on that, Jenny. I just make no sense to me whatsoever what we're doing here. I think the answer from town council is going to be that the ARB. Does not have the authority to do that, but. I'll leave that up to town council. Right. And I, and I think can what we discussed. In our, in our last meeting was that. We had a discussion with the. Option that the historic commission has to exercise a one or two year demolition delay. We have this. Wrapped building. To look at if they don't spend the money. To. Restore the facade that we, we have. We're going to have to spend the money. We're going to have to spend the money. Very visibly by blighted building. That we need to look at for the, for the next. Two plus years. Can I just say that was my point and asking. The owners to take a look at whether it was possible. Since they were going to have to spend them in the neighborhood of $150,000. Anyhow. There's been a huge increase in investment in reusing the building. Expanding in a bag. Mixed use, whatever they thought. Was appropriate. Moving it forward. Right. Yeah. I certainly have an open mind. I'm sorry. Can we. Sorry. That's our Robert. Can we then maybe draft a memo to the historic commission saying, look. Maybe all you guys don't agree. But. If the owner is going to. Build it and tear it down. That's what they statement is. Okay. I can't change your mind. That's. That's still right. But can we have them say, look. Don't find them have let them tear it down right now. No delay in demolition. If they, if they've. Fund some sort of. Affordable housing thing and then we'll go from there. I don't know. I just. The problem I have with that is that if they tear it down, we're going to look at a hole for God knows how long, because how many times have they come to us and not done what they've said they're going to do. How long is it going to take us to get plans and actually something built. So I think that there's a lot of. I see where you're going and I understand your, your frustration. I think that. There's a process. Fortunately, by which we have to go through, because we need checks in place to make sure that this particular owner. Follows through. On what is required and that again, a significantly blighted property is not as visible as it currently is within the, within the town. I agree. And I spoke my mind and I will. I'll leave it at that. Okay. And you know, I'm not going to. But I, you know, that's fine. I'll just shut up right now. Jenny, you had a comment. I was just going to respond. I wouldn't obviously speak for town council in terms of the sort of. The legal possibilities, but I can say that. I appreciate kin's creativity. And the approach that he's striving for and the outcome that he's looking for. I think. Those are all possibilities. The challenge, of course, is. What is the owner wanting to do? And whether or not the town wishes to flex its muscle further. In part of this process. I don't. I don't see that happening, but it is, of course. I think that. I think that we can just. This board has, has many options. This perhaps is a good conversation for when we do bring as we discussed at our goal setting meeting. Having town council come to talk with us about our, you know, the, the possibilities of what the redevelopment board can be doing. Now and in the future. And perhaps we can add this to this, to that discussion, but I. I'm not in favor of essentially creating a stage set is what I'm calling it. Because essentially nothing will happen on site for two years, but it will look very nice. And I don't, I really do not appreciate that. I think it's almost more disrespectful than what we've got going on there right now. I would love to see it fulfill a better purpose. So whatever I can do in this process to make that happen, I am open to and will coordinate accordingly. I appreciate Ken's points. Thank you, Steve. Yeah, there. I mean, I just want to acknowledge the role that the, you know, how to, to the extent to which the ball is in the historical commissions report or court, not report court. In terms of, you know, requiring the owner to restore the building, you know, so there's, there's a question of, well, is it the historical commission's desire to impose a punitive punishment? And I don't know if that's the case or not, but, you know, a hundreds, $170,000 worth of work is a fairly significant punishment. And it's also, you know, their decision of whether or not to, you know, impose a, you know, a two year delay or a, you know, the delay, the delay is up to them. You know, I'm, I sort of suspect, I kind of am expecting us to wind up with a stage set as, as Ms. Wright said, but, you know, it is what it is. It's not the most blighted site in town. I guess we're going to see. I don't have anything especially creative to offer. I'm sorry. Thank you, Steve. Melissa, any, any comments that you'd like to ask? This is probably for Jenny. I guess my understanding that this parcel, right? It's a contiguous parcel with CVS. Isn't the building then kind of based on its dimensions and setbacks, like, isn't it already non-conforming? And if you do even demo, can you rebuild and non-conforming? I mean, how, I think you eliminate all of that. So trying to understand what the demo gets them. Right. This is a, this is something that Mr. Nessie is familiar with and we have talked about it. I think it was last summer when they started talking about their mixed use proposal. It does make things more complicated to take the building down. For sure. The, there are options that this property owner has in terms of dividing the parcel, creating an easement to the parking. I mean, there's, there are things that can happen to make it easier for the applicant to move forward if they choose to at some point in time to apply for an EDR. But I think that it is legally possible for them to do a new building. It just depends on what they're proposing. We still don't, we don't really know what they're proposing to do. They haven't really, that's what we're, we continue to grapple with for more than, I don't even know how many years now. We can't do that. And we can't do that right now because if I do that, I'm insulting the historical condition. We're, we're sort of in this in between space. So I, I appreciate the question as to what could happen if they took the building down. We're unable to even entertain that without having a better sense of the uses and the other things that they're talking about doing. Right. But I guess that kind of then lends itself to the decision to keep the building to find a way to keep it going to going back to what Jean was looking at. I think that that's a viable possibility as well. And I think you had within the, within the 2009 decision, it outlines as Jean noted how that could be done. Sorry. I talked at the same time as you. No, no, I'm just, I guess I'm just thinking. And we had the property owner here at the last meeting. Is there, is there probably a bad blood that I'm not understanding from the property owner in motivating to get this done. Well, the property owner is on. Okay. Jeff noise is on this zoom. Okay. And, and, and I mean, he's paying me money. He's paying the architect money at this point. He's going to have to pay to restore the building. He's into this for money at this point. I don't think that he's going to be lax. This time around, at least not on my watch. I think that we are going to bring this matter to fruition. Okay. One way or another. Okay. It's going to happen at this point. But Jeff noise is on the zoom. If you want to ask him a question, please feel, feel free to do so. I think I did ask him last time. Jeff, are you on this call? Yeah. For you there. Yep. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Yeah. I'm here. I've been listening the whole time. Do you live in Arlington? Remind me. Yeah. We are Florida residents. Florida residents. And, and you know how much, you know, this is on mass app and how much the community cares about. This space, right? Yes, we've owned the property for over 85 years. And. I'm just curious. I kind of what you're thinking is to kind of getting a project done. Why, why has it been so challenging? I mean. You know, it's been challenging. It's been challenging. And so I'm trying to understand that. And it's challenging to try to do so on a zoom with limited history only on what I've read so far. So. Yeah. There actually has been proposals and that that came to an end when we were required to fill out the demo permit to submit to historical. In the process of filling out the demo permit. One of the requirements is to remove asbestos. That requirement unfortunately removed the siding from the house, which was obviously a huge mistake. To get to the asbestos paper board that was underneath the siding. The original siding is still inside the house. It was not removed, demoed. Destroyed. You know, whatever. So. We are one signature away from. We are one signature away from the house. So we're sending the permit to historical. And unfortunately it's taken between COVID and a few other issues. It's, it's taken an extended amount of time to get that done. So I see that Jean has his hands up. And I'm cognizant of the time as well. I know that we have several other items to, to get through. Gene. Why don't you go ahead and share your, your comments and then, share your thoughts on that. And I think that's a potential for us to move on. Yeah. I mean, I'll be really quick. And I think I'd like to have a conversation with Jenny offline. To. At least for me to understand about what some of our options are. And I'm wondering. And Jenny might. Right now telling me not to do this. I don't know. I don't know. The special permit and maybe we should keep not close this out, but keep it open one more time. So we can have a discussion. About whether we want to amend the special permit to deal with the house in a different way. I don't know. But I'm just wondering. Jenny. Completely an option. Maybe we can talk about it. If you want to keep it open. And we can talk in between. About options. I'd be hearing. Well, I'd be hearing from someone from planning. Between now and the 25th. So. At least I have something to discuss with. My client and. Monte the architect. Yeah, I think if there's. If there's a recommendation. That's starting to emerge. We can, we can follow up with a discussion. We can follow up in general. For all the points that have been raised. I mean, the board can't have a discussion between now and then. Because. Open meetings. Well, but you know, I think. Jenny and I maybe would have a discussion. She would see if she wants to make a recommendation. Melissa, if you want to participate in that. Yeah, I would like that. Okay. So I will Rachel, if it is okay with you, I'd recommend that I. I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to have a range of time to meet with Jean and Melissa to follow up on. What to do and what to put in sort of make a recommendation to the board for the 25th. I'll also follow up with the. With. With Mr. Nessie about. All of the other details that we've discussed. Thank you. And. I also wanted to see. It's only a week away. I don't know if you have any questions about coming in front of this board to have a discussion about. Some of the broader options that we have as an urban renewal. Authority. Which may or may not have bearing on how we approach this. So is that something that we think would be potential for the next meeting or. Timing wise, are we looking. Further out. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about October 4th. So right now we. We don't have any of our hearings. Going to October 4th. So we might. So we don't have any other agenda items at this moment in time. So if, if Doug is available town council, I can. Arrange for that to be sort of the centerpiece of the, of our agenda. But I'll have to confirm his availability. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for exploring. As something that I think would help us with the next steps too, but it sounds. Can Steve and Melissa, if you wanted to weigh in. I'm in. Agreement with Jean and Jenny's suggestion to. Keep our options open by keeping the special permit open for another month. And then. We'll have to see what you can do. And also. Any potential recommendations before the 25th. Ken. I'm fine with that. Maybe. Also to catch Melissa up. There was a proposal that we met. I think there's two meetings. I'm not sure Steve may not know either or Melissa. About. The proposed for that. Maybe they can catch up on those things there. take a look at that and see what they have an idea of what was planned there. If it's okay, Rachel, I didn't mean to suggest that there weren't any proposals. Obviously, I was present for the conversation about those proposals, but nothing had been formally filed with the redevelopment board to proceed. So therefore, we were sort of commenting on an idea about mixed use. So nothing had gone forward. And then of course, you heard the rest of the story from the property owner. But I believe that those documents are on the redevelopment board page. Also, I'll send a follow-up so that you can, I'll make sure that you have access to that, in case you don't. Steve and Melissa. Great. Steve or Melissa? Any, Steve, I'll start with you. Any comments on that? Sorry, Ken, did I cut you off? Did you have something else? Okay. Any commentary on that proposal to keep the docket open another month? No concerns about keeping it open. No concerns, no objections. Okay, Melissa? I'm fine with that. Okay. At this point then, do we have a motion to continue docket number 3348 to the meeting on October 25th? So moved. Is there a second? Second. Make a real call. Vote, Ken? Yes. Dean? Yes. Melissa? Yes. Steve? Yes. And I am as well. Thank you very much for joining us again this evening. We'll see you in a month. You will. Okay. All right. So that concludes our agenda item number one, public hearings. And we'll now move on to agenda item number two, which is the ARB committee appointments for ARB members and designees. And I will turn it over to Jenny. I think this is the third time. I think you're familiar with it. But if you need me to review, I can. Of course, this is our first meeting with Steve Revilec as a member. He's the gubernatorial designee. And he had offered at the goal setting meeting to participate in the housing plan implementation committee, I believe. So I think that you have your sleep in front of you and you simply need to move to designate all of the representatives to those respective committees and working groups. Great. The only item I had a question about was whether it be Arlington Heights neighborhood implementation action plan needed to be listed on here. So it was one of those committees where my understanding was you were deciding to participate, but the board had kind of. There was no official. I just wanted to say it was not a previous burden. But I think you are, of course, we would welcome anybody's participation. But if you want to continue doing that, if you want me to, I can amend the list and add that. That's, we don't, we certainly don't need to. I was just. Okay. Questioning whether that one you're doing here. Okay. Are there any questions you want to let me know if there are any questions or discussion on this item, starting with Ken? No. Gene? No. Melissa? No. Steve? Nothing. All right. So we just need to vote to adopt the committee appointments or approve, excuse me, the appointments and designees as listed. Is there a motion to do so? I amended it just so you know for you before you decide to vote. Okay. I added number eight because I do think it's important to acknowledge that you have been participating and you have been providing good service to that committee by participating. So I've added that. Okay. Thank you, Jenny. Is there a a motion to approve the appointments as amended? So, motions. Second. Second. Great. Roll call vote. Ken? Yes. Gene? Yes. Melissa? Yes. Steve? Yes. And I mean yes as well. Thank you, Jenny. This does not need to come on our agenda for another, another year. Okay. Item number three, we have a draft of the fiscal year 2022 ARB updated goals. Jenny, I think you're going to pull these up on the screen and these are as reviewed in our goal setting session in September 11th, I think. 11th. Yes. Any commentary, Jenny? No. I can, I'm happy to answer any questions that I didn't resolve when I made the final edits. I did remove a lot of dates. The one, one thinking here is that we would have a fall special town meeting next year to prepare for zoning amendments because of just the time needed to do that. So when I said fall of 2022, I was tracking about a special town meeting, but we would still need to do the work through June, obviously, to prepare for that. Great. So I think, I think I captured though all of the other edits that were suggested. So I'll just run through and see if anyone has any comments starting with Ken. Yeah, I thought we also focused on planning on the Mass Ave and the Broadway quarter, how to encourage more development in those areas there. It's 1B or 1, 1B, apparently. Some extra ones. Do you see that? Yes, I saw that, that was sort of, okay. And then there's also under economic development. I think there's continued ensuring we kept this from current year. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions, Ken? No. Gene? Just one thing in the number one. So we have the actions review, review, review and consider. So they're not quite aligned. Review seems like, you know, should we review and consider? Review and consider. So they're all the same. So be review and consider and review or review. I don't know, I'm just wondering about the work. Yeah, the review is about like existing recommendations. So like the Arlington Heights Neighborhood Action Plan has recommendations, net zero, connect Arlington. They all have existing recommendations for you to review. The other one doesn't have any recommendations yet for Mass Ave and Broadway. So that's why I think I wrote consider. But it could be consider and propose or something to that effect. I mean, I have no problem with the substance of any of these. I just wonder about that, you know, sort of the action verbs like, you know, the committee that's working on the net that worked on the net zero action plan is now trying to consider if they're going to recommend some zoning changes. So we're going to do more than review them, I guess. We're going to, I don't know, make decisions about them. Do you want to propose an amendment to this? Some language? So Jean, are you specifically speaking to the review for items two, three and four, the net zero connect? Yep. Yep. Yep. So I think what we had discussed was we were going to review and endorse in the same way that Jenny, I believe that you said that that's how the select board, correct? Yeah, I did. We were going to endorse the net zero action plan, which you said somewhere else, but I don't think we're automatically endorsing zoning recommendations. Maybe review and make a decision on review and consider review and consider review and consider because later on it has the in one of the others. So maybe review and endorse net zero action plan and consider zoning recommendations? We have that below the net zero action plan in one of the others. Sorry, I'm trying to read on the screen, I apologize. So I think it's a, you could say review and consider connect Darlinton zoning recommendations because if you look at number two, Rachel, there's the first action is adopted based on connect Darlinton. So they're down there. So okay, those, those, that's better. I don't want to wordsmith this to death. Sorry. I think, I think it's, you know, we're reviewing a plan. There's many components to the plan. I put this section under zoning. The second one is long range planning. So it's actually an amendment to the master plan, connect Darlinton. And then of course, there's zoning recommendations, which some may or may not be proposed by the board. That was my only comment. Great. Thank you, Jean. Melissa, any comments? I think I was just curious. I guess I recall under the urban renewal plans, it said transitioning the management of the ARB. I thought we were going to kind of go over and understand our powers before we considered a transition like that. Yeah, I tried to rework it. So it was a little, so it was just about the management of them, but not a full transfer of the property. Okay. This was actually, I think Jean made that comment as well. And I think this was what Jean, you may have suggested today. So is that, is that still, are you, you don't transitioning management, management, dealing in operations? Yeah. I mean, so I was just thinking of that in terms of what we talked about, but that makes sense. Okay. Great. Thanks, Melissa. Steve, any questions? Looks fine to me. Great. Thank you. All right. Sorry, give me one second. So I don't think, Jenny, do we need to vote to formally adopt these? I don't think that we do. You just vote to approve. Okay. As amended. All right. So is there a motion to approve as amended the updated fiscal year 2022 ARB polls? So motion. Second. Second. All right. We'll take a vote. Ken. Yes. Yes. Melissa. Yes. Steve. Yes. And I'm a yes as well. So that closes agenda item number three. Now we'll move to agenda item number four, which is the zoning warrant article filing process and coordination with the redevelopment board. Jenny, you have for a reference the filing process, which I believe Erin had put together for us for the 2021 period. So we were going to make a point this evening to let everybody know who is considering a zoning warrant article proposal who would like to work together with the ARB to start doing so sooner rather than later so that we can work towards the January filing in the months of October, November and December to be able to start giving members of the public feedback on any any articles that may be under consideration. And Jenny, I'll turn it over to you for any specific items that you wanted to cover with regard to the taking the framework that we came up with in 2021 and moving it forward to 2022. Thank you. Well, I think there's a couple of things. One is I think it would be helpful if the board could decide when you want to start those conversations. You know, it could be early, but if you're meeting only once in October, do you want to spend time in November or December meetings talking with potential petitioners because January is when warrant articles are due. So we can I'm just thinking of ways that we can update this framework, post it, and also advertise it to 10 meeting members. And Kelly worked with Erin on this, so we'll we'll we'll also do the same again. But I was mostly looking to just understand sort of the beginning part if you would like people to come if we know, you know, I don't know, by the way, but if there are people who would want to talk with the board to have them come in November and December, and then we'll provide an updated process so it's clear how that process works. Because right now, obviously, it's talking about the past. Right. Jean. Yeah, I agree. I think we need to put on the beginning of this, the sort of public consultation process. And I'd say October isn't too early to say if people have some ideas about what they want to file, or they have more than ideas, they have some more specific things that they should be emailing them during October and to mid November. And we will start looking at them and having them come to meetings to discuss that. So I don't I think we need to start that in October is not far away. And maybe that needs to be the, you know, the beginning of this rather than the January. Yeah. Yeah, we would we would update that timeline, perhaps sort of a little bit of a beginning part. I don't think that that's reflected currently. So maybe we'll be like starting October, public consultation suggestions for work. Yeah, exactly. Making it clear it's not required, of course, under warrant article filing process, but that it would be recommended. And then it is open to anyone who chooses to take advantage of it. I think that was something we made sure to clarify during the Q&A on several of the warrant articles that were proposed by residents last during the last 2021 season. Gene, any other comments? Ken? No. Melissa? Yeah. Steve? Only to say that as soon as we can get people, you know, to talk to us, I think we should talk to them sooner is better. And, you know, more opportunity for iteration is a good thing. Agreed. Great. Well, thank you for doing this. And Kelly, thank you for your work with Erin and putting this together last year. I think it was really and for Barbara Thornton, who actually suggested it, I think it was, it helped demystify the process quite a bit. So thank you very much. You're welcome. It helped me too. So thank you. Great. All right. Thank you very much. And we will move to our next item, which is the meeting minutes. And we start with the meeting minutes from August 30th, 2021. And I will roll through to see if there are any corrections or amendments to the meeting minutes starting with Gene. Yeah. I'm just pulling them up on my screen. I have quite a few. Thank you. For August 30th, in the second paragraph, one, two, three, four, five. The sixth line that said, Mr. Benson asked about the disparity between the stated sign size between, it should say the stated sign, stated sign size on the application forms, rather than between, should be disparity between the stated sign on the application forms in the memo. Later in that paragraph, the last sentence, mis-rate confirmed that the sign is still non-conforming due to the height and delete and area, because it was only a height issue. Later on that page, the next one, the paragraph that starts with Mr. Lau said, the last sentence says, Mr. Benson said he would like the sign limited, sign size limited as condition of the permit, since there is a size discrepancy, it should not say on the application, it should say between the application and the actual sign size, as explained by Ms. Ray. I'm scrolling to see what else ahead on here. On the third page, the long first paragraph, there's one sentence that says, mis-rate reminded the board of the full list of criteria for denying a permit. That use alone is not enough to deny a permit. I have a couple other sentences. Mr. Benson stated his belief that the board could deny a permit application based on the criteria in 3.3.3, as well as on the criteria in 3.4.3. Ms. Ray and the board agreed that town council would be asked for his opinion, and then the rest of the paragraph. Sorry, can you repeat after 3.4? Ms. Ray and the board agreed that town council would be asked for his opinion. And then on the very top of page 4, where it says, Mr. Benson said he would like to see a proposal that keeps the original facade. There should be another sentence that said, Mr. Noise said he and his client would consider that, as we found out tonight. Do you see that, Jenny? Wait, am I adding? Yes, another sentence. So after the word facade, it would be Mr. Noise said he and his client would consider that. So it's Mr. Anathy. Anathy, I'm sorry. Thank you. And then down near the bottom, it says, the chair introduced a second agenda item, our committee appointments for our committee members and designees. The second sentence says, the chair suggested meeting the standing committee. The nominee should probably be in vision Arlington standing committee nominee. And then later in that sentence, after the word present, there should be a semicolon rather than a comma. And then it says appointment introductions, delete the word introductions. Sorry, I don't know where you're talking about for present. Present, semicolon, the other appointments will be rescheduled. Get rid of the word introduction and make an appointment. Because there weren't introductions, they're just okay. And the next sentence, I don't think he said it was a pleasure to represent in vision Arlington. I think he said something that, a pleasure to represent the ARB on in vision Arlington. And those are my suggested changes to those minutes. Great. Thank you, Gene. Ken? I'm all set. Great. Melissa, no comment. And Steve, I don't believe that you were at this meeting with us. I will obtain. Okay. So the only item I have is actually not related to this, but actually to the list of committee representatives and the gentleman who we approved in this meeting, should he be listed on Envision Arlington on that list together with Alex Bagnell from Vision Arlington? So he's actually my designee, but you approve my appointment. Fabulous. Great. Thanks for the clarification. That's, that is the structure that the town created. Fabulous. Okay. So is there a motion to approve these meeting minutes as amended for August 30th? So moved. Second? Second. Great. We'll take a vote. Ken? Yes. Gene? Yes. Melissa? Yes. Either yes as well. And Steve, you are and Steve. That is correct. Correct. So we have approved the meeting minutes from August 30th, 2021. The next item on our agenda are the meeting minutes from September 11th, 2021. And while Jenny pulls those up, Gene, I'll start with you. I do have some suggestions. So what was interesting about this one is all, and all the other ones were like, Mr. Benson, Ms. Rape, they dropped all of those. This is Rape, welcome to everyone. I know. I took these minutes. I had no video and I was talking most of the time. I mean, if you don't want to put the Mr. and Ms. and stuff, maybe at least said, great. Welcome, Steve Revillac, at least the first time. In the second paragraph, the third sentence where it says other suggestions included amending the parking requirements for residential uses, it should say multifamily residential uses. Is that in this paragraph, the second one? Yeah, the one that says, starts with Lau introduced. The third line, other suggestions included amending the parking requirements for residential uses. It was multifamily residential uses. In the next paragraph, I'm not sure about this where it says about the fifth line down. This zoning work may occur because of the MBTA communities. I thought maybe this zoning work may occur along with the MBTA communities planning work. Yeah, that's, yeah. So get rid of not because I'll replace it along with. The next line down after the word gardens, it should be from not form. Do you see that? However, municipalities across the state are awaiting guidance from the MBTA, admitted safe form. Oh, yeah. And then the last word, the last word where it says, on that paragraph where it says elevate basements, it's not basements, they're elevating the elevators. Yeah. It was the base blood zone. Is that what you were talking about, Steve? But they weren't elevating the basements, they're elevating the first floor above the base blood level. Yes, basically. So just elevate first floor is okay. Well, I would say elevate building. Building, yeah. Okay. There are different ways to go about it, but building is good. Okay. So those are my comments on that. A lot of buildings happening in this one sentence, I'll figure that out. Recording addressing buildings and floodplans by allowing taller buildings by elevating to, I'll figure it out. So the idea is that basically you can consider base flood elevation in height. So if the flood elevation is five feet above the ground, well, you should be able, it would be nice to have the ability to raise the structure up five feet. Is that okay? By considering base flood. Let's say by considering base flood elevation in the calculation of building height. Okay. Thank you. Figure out all the flood zones and all the parts of the state too. Yeah. Great. Is that all, Jean? That was it. Okay. Ken? I'm good. Steve? Looks fine to me. Great. Melissa, you're good. All right. Is there a motion to approve the September 11th, 2021 meeting minutes as amended? I'll move. For a second? Second. Take a vote. Ken? Yes. Jean? Yes. Melissa? Yes. Steve? Yes. And I am a yes as well. So the meeting minutes for September 11th, 2021 are approved. That closes agenda item number five. We move to agenda item number six, which is open forum. So we will invite any member of the public with us this evening who wishes to address the board to please use the raise hand function. All right. So any member wishing to address the board, please note that you will have up to three minutes. Please begin your remarks by introducing yourself with your first, last name and address. And we will start with Don Seltzer. Thank you. Don Seltzer, Irving Street. I'd like to return to something that Jean brought up earlier about the Atwood House. Jean had discovered that the original special permit from 2009, which allowed the development of the CVS and everything, had specifically set aside a good chunk of land in the rear of the Atwood House for the purpose of a possible future development. And while the meeting has been going on, I brought up the plot plan for it. And it's a nice piece of land. It looks like to be about 7,000 square feet at least. And right now it's about 70 feet from the rear of the Atwood House to where the drive-up lane for CVS is. So just throwing out as an idea, one option for redeveloping the house is keep it where it is, keep the front and side facades, which the Historical Commission want, keep the nice front lawn, which flows into the first Baptist church lawn, and build backwards. You can more than double the footprint of the existing house and still have 20 feet of lawn as a buffer before you get to the drive-up lanes for CVS. There seems to be a perfectly reasonable approach to take that would probably keep everybody happy. Thank you very much. Certainly. And thanks for Jean for looking into what the special permit has as its basic components. Well, I could convince you but I can't convince the owner of the building apparently. That is the big point. Yeah, that's the tough one. All right. Are there any other members of the public who wish to address the board this evening? All right. Seeing none, we will close public forum, open forum rather. Are there any other items from the board before we any other new business before we move to adjourn? Jean? Ken? Steve? Nope. Melissa? No. All right. Jenny, anything else that we didn't cover? No, but I will be in touch with the board regarding the next meeting and whether or not it will happen on the fourth. If I can have Doug attend, of course, that will be the main agenda item. If not, then I would suggest that we cancel the meeting. I don't have other items at this time. But I will also encourage you to attend a couple of forums that are coming up. There's many other things you can attend. So I'll put that into a follow-up email. Great. Thank you very much. Yes, you're welcome. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? A motion. Is there a second? Second. All right. We'll take a roll call vote. Ken? Yes. Jean? Yes. Melissa? Yes. Steve? Yes. And I am a yes as well. Thank you all. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you all. Thank you. Good night. Good night.