 Hi, my name is Esther Choy, I'm a research fellow at the Sustainable Finance Initiative, and the first part of my presentation will be about the overview of SFI, and this is on behalf of Alicia Seeger, the managing director of SFI. She could not be here because she's in DC testifying before Congress about the macroeconomic impacts of climate change, which is very cool, but she sends her regards, and if you have any questions about SFI or any opportunities for collaboration, please feel free to reach out to her directly. She's a great person to talk to. And this is the contents of the overview, and I'll start with a mission of SFI. SFI aims to scale up and accelerate the flow of capital toward the decarbonization of global systems by developing and deploying innovative policies and financial mechanisms, educating leaders, and engaging with the global policy and finance community. SFI believes that climate solutions have moved away from high altitudes to ground the situated solutions, so we work in close collaboration with key governments and private actors in countries like China, India, and the United States to advance and transform ideas into impactful actions that is context specific. Being on Stanford's capacity to generate and apply knowledge, SFI's mission is to design and deploy economic and financial solutions that can serve to unlock capital at the speed and scale required to transition into a decarbonized and climate resilient global economy. And we have identified four structural barriers to that hinder effective flow of climate finance. The first is that public spending has yet to catalyze private investment at the requisite speed and scale. The second is climate risk is not properly measured, disclose or managed. Stranded assets are not built fast and effectively, and that systems must be fundamentally and massively transformed. And based on these four structural barriers, we have identified four focal areas for SFI's work. Under catalyzing private capital, specific areas of investigation include blended finance, which is the use of public and philanthropic capital to mobilize additional private capital and that I will talk about in more details after this presentation. We assess the effectiveness of green bonds, purpose-built public and private equity vehicles and business innovation. For risk metrics and management, SFI explores the frontier of this area, including the application of big data analytics and artificial intelligence on the computation of physical and transition risks. For stranded assets, SFI develops and tests the use of stabilization funds, securitization and green bonds as a means to help governments manage the liabilities of stranded fossil generation assets. And SFI believes that the solutions are climate solutions are tied to systemic innovation rather than just one-off projects. That's why SFI explores the risk of new energy and infrastructure solutions that require systems thinking and analysis to identify the most promising opportunities. And Girish can talk more about this particular work stream. Many examples include market design and energy reform in India and system integration at the regional levels in China and Southeast Asia. SFI's operating model is a team of teams. SFI's core team comprised of its directors, fellows like myself and advisors will select projects, provide resources and ensure that the operation of individual projects are aligned with the global context and the principles of SFI. And these are the people affiliated with SFI with Tom Heller as the faculty director and Alicia Cigar as managing director. We have fellows, research fellows, project leads, energy scholars, visiting scholars and a program manager. As you can see from here, our advisory board consists of renowned experts in various fields associated with SFI, SFI's work streams. Our products include a deep engagement with governments and geos, investors and other academics. We, of course, publish papers and they're available on the SFI website. We design and host student seminars and stakeholder engagement workshops. We conduct outreach to Stanford faculty to build greater network and capacity. And above all, we strive to address the daunting challenges ahead of us that is climate change. And if you have any more questions, there's more details and other information on the website, URLs here. And we look forward to engaging with many of you and collaborating in the near future. Thank you. So I'm going to talk about the stuff that I'm actually responsible for at SFI, which is a blended finance. So as you can remember from this chart below, a blended finance belongs to the catalyzing private capital work stream. And this blended finance is a relatively new area of investigation for SFI. And we are currently writing a scoping paper to be published by the APEC investor forum in Chile this November, upcoming November. And as an intro, so this presentation will be about, the main purpose is to introduce you to the world of blended finance and to talk briefly about what the paper is about. And before I go into what blended finance is, I wanted to highlight this urgency for our action because we tend to forget about the loose side of this urgency because we tend to hear about the same message over and over again and the impacts of climate change are often diffused across time and space. So just to illustrate what type of actions and the financing needs, we have, so in order to keep warming within a 1.5 Celsius, we need, the CO2 emissions need to decline by about 45% by 2030, reaching net zero by 2050. And this means for energy systems renewables are projected to supply about 85% of electricity in 2050 and the use of coal would be zero. Industries will need to reduce emissions by almost 90% lower in 2050 relative to 2010. And that translates into trillions of investment needs in energy systems. And that will require a major shift in investment patterns and we all know that public budget is highly constrained and the use of philanthropy is limited. And we also need to consider the nature of infrastructure and built environment and the carbon lock-in effect that they bring about. Because once they are built, it's very hard to shift their emissions trajectory or the way of doing things. It's very expensive, very difficult. So it is critical to get it right at the design phase. And this type of investment opportunities are more available in emerging and developing countries. Developing countries may not have done so much to cause climate change, but today they are half of the 20 biggest emitters. Since 2000, emerging economies in Asia are driving the growth in emissions. The top four emitters, which are China, US, the European Union and India, contribute to the majority of total greenhouse gas emissions in the last decade. So even if developed countries stopped all emissions by 2050, warming would still exceed two degrees by the end of the century without developing countries on board. And this is particularly critical given the potential of them leapfrogging to the more energy efficient and low carbon systems and the significance of carbon lock-in caused by infrastructure and policy choices that I just talked about. So that being said, blended finance, there's no universal definition for blended finance, but generally it is known as the strategic use of public and philanthropic funds to mobilize additional capital and commercial capital in support of low carbon investments. So the aim is to increase the available financing for climate mitigation by mobilizing additional funding that does not have a climate mandate, which is often the case for private and commercial capital. The logic behind blended finance is pretty simple. Investors and project developers respond to the risk return profile of associated investments and they're usually hesitant to invest in developing countries because of the perceived and real risks such as various market failures and information asymmetry. So public support through the various blended finance vehicles can improve this risk return profile in developing countries. For example, institutional investors such as insurance and pension funds, they in the OECD alone have $92 trillion in assets, but they only invest only 1% in infrastructure. So there is a clear mismatch between supply and demand and blended finance has the potential to bridge these two. There's a range of approaches available. One is financial instruments such as equity, loans missing and guarantees and grants, and the other one is a structuring mechanism such as funds, syndication, securitization and public-private partnership. And another characteristic of blended finance is that it is a means to enact. The goal is to facilitate market buildings so that the private investment can sustain itself after this concessional capital exits. So it is temporary in nature. So against this backdrop, the scoping paper explores these four questions. What are the specific demands for the carbonization? Where are they located? What is the role of blended finance in meeting these needs? And what has been the additionality, scalability and impact of major blended finance vehicles so far? And what are we missing to advance the research and practice forward? So the purpose of this paper is to raise issues and questions that can help frame a research agenda and chart the right course and set the right expectations for blended finance. So we have known for a while that it is important to engage and catalyze the private capital for public goods. But the implementation aspect has been largely blank. So that's why this paper consists of a series of case studies. And each case study describes how blending has been applied, focusing on the location in terms of financing, the financing structures, and the project's contribution to decarbonization. We look at sources and intermediaries, financial instruments used, who the actual recipients are, what kind of activities are funded, and what kind of impact will achieve if the data is available. And these are the cases that we're currently exploring. The five, four or five cases. The JRAF is managed by European Investment Bank. It's been there for a while. And then they're proposing a next phase for this particular vehicle. CP3 is run by the UK government. And I believe this is the biggest equity fund run by a national government. Climate Finance Partnership was announced last year as a flagship blend of finance vehicle with BlackRock, the biggest asset manager, as one of the partners. Climate Investor One is a one-stop shop for renewable energy projects that manages from developing pipeline projects to construction and implementation. And New Forest Initiative is unique because most vehicles are focused on renewables and clean energy. And this one is particularly focused on the forestry sector. So yeah, we are in the process of talking to the project managers and major stakeholders related to these cases. Yeah, so if you have any questions about this particular paper or the field of blend of finance, please feel free to reach out to me and ask any questions I would like to talk to many of you about this. Thank you. And now I turn to Girish. So, hi everyone, it's good to see you. And I think there's a good mix of people here. I'm gonna mostly talk about my work at SFI, but I kind of wanted to stress on a couple of broader things first. One is what we work on is problems that are relevant to key stakeholders. So that's important. So typically, we try to find a client. And typically, the client is either a policymaker in a country or it's a large public sector entity. And the idea is that you're working on practical problems. So even though we want to apply analytical rigor and kind of in-depth analysis to problems, which is what we do at universities. We want those problems to be practical and we want the solutions to be actually used by the stakeholders. So that's a very, very key aspect. The other thing that's unique about SFI and I'm happy or we are happy to take this in questions also as to how do you work with SFI, right? Because it's kind of unique in the sense that you may not have seen any students assigned here in the people that Esther put up. And the idea is that we do work with students. But again, it has to be connected to these practical problems that we have identified over time. We work with faculty, supervisors who bring in students into the projects. And overall, students do end up working on our projects. So we can talk more about how that can be made to happen. But having said that, let me just talk a little bit about my specific work. And I'll also kind of connect towards the end of what I discuss. Is some projects that I'm thinking about that connect to broader SFI areas, okay? So first, let me start with what have I worked on in the last year or so. And this is this area of energy system transition, which is the fourth area that Esther talked about. And this also does connect to this third area of stranded assets, okay? And I have mostly worked on India, but a lot of this stuff that we work on could be broadly applicable to other countries. As Esther said, we focus on China, US, and India. So that's where the focus is, but doesn't mean that we stay limited to those areas. So that's something else to keep in mind. And what you'll also realize is that as I talk about my work, it is gonna sound similar to traditional energy policy, okay? So even though we have sustainable finance initiative in our name, we do work at the intersection of policy, finance, and business, right? Which means you are connected to policy making. And if it's not clear, I wanna stress that, that it is about policy making to a large extent. So it kind of overlaps with a lot of stuff that many of the faculty do at Stanford and many of you might be interested in, okay? So with that groundwork, the idea is that you're applying finance and economic principles and using those principles to make, hopefully, recommendations that policy makers and decision makers could use. So let me now jump into three specific projects, and with the context. So the context is, as I said, about India. And India, like many other countries, is going through massive energy system transition, okay? And that you could apply it to any country of your choice, but a lot of countries are going through this transition. India has, and a lot of that is part of the nationally determined contribution that we announced in Paris, right? And India's NDC is about, we would say, 350 gigawatts of renewable energy by 2030, right? That was kind of a number that was announced. Or another number that's thrown out is about 30% reduction in energy intensity compared to 2005, right? So that's the context, and the idea is how do you get there? So as we look at it as we decarbonize electricity, for example, we will have increasing penetration of renewables in the system, right? And as we have increasing penetration of renewables in the system, what does that do? And what is the characteristic of renewables is that they're variable. They're not producing at all times. They're intermittent. Solar could actually, the sun could go behind clouds at any point in time, right? So they're intermittent. So we have to start thinking about what we call flexibility services that provide flexibility into the system, right? And these flexibility services, and if you come from the energy area, you know about a lot of them. They're called regulation services. They're called ramping. There's a lot of energies arbitrage during the day when you're storing energy somewhere, when there's solar and wind generating energy, and then putting it back in the system. And the question that I am working on, just as a high level thing, is how do you enable through policy, how do you enable through policy low-cost availability of these technologies? Okay? That's as simple as that. Because what you want is, as the system is transforming, are we doing our job as policy makers and the society to enable low-cost availability of those technologies so that when we are ready to absorb them into the system, they're competitive in the marketplace. Because that's important, right? And that you've seen happen with solar and wind, right? There were a lot of policy mechanisms that were used to bring solar and wind into the system. So you want to do the same thing with energy storage. You want to do the same thing with demand response, okay? And so that's the project that we have just started. And I'm going to throw out some technical terms here. And many of you who know energy might know this already. When you want to do this low-cost availability of technologies, you have to do it from two angles. One is what we call the push side, which is the supply side of things. So how do you design policies on the R&D side? How do you design policies on the manufacturing side to enable this low-cost production or the supply side of things, right? But on the other hand, you have to also design policies on the demand side or the pull side similar to procurement that you do in many states, etc. So how do you design those policies? And what can you learn from the best practices, etc? So that's one project, okay? And I'm going to state this level for now, but just to give you a flavor. One other thing I want to talk about, my own work to give you a sense of what we do. And that's connected to, again, energy system transition is very interesting questions come up. And two of the questions are, one is as the solar and wind deployment is increasing around the world and take any country, take US, take China, take India, take Chile, take Mexico. You will see very low auction prices for solar, right? You've seen those. I mean, you're seeing prices of two cents per kilowatt hour, right? So what that tells you is that solar and wind now today at an average cost basis, average cost, which means lifetime average cost, right? It's cheaper than variable cost of coal, and that's important. It's variable cost of coal. It's not average cost of coal. So you can forget about the fixed cost and the capital cost or capital investments that have gone into coal plants, right? Average cost of solar is cheaper than variable cost of coal. What that means is, that's basically economics 101, right? It's a sound economic decision today, right? That I start buying power from solar as opposed to coal. And just to kind of nuance that, it's not just solar versus coal, it's new solar versus existing coal. That's big, right? Because so far the discussion has been, can we do solar versus coal or solar versus gas? And it was all about new versus new. But here I'm saying, what I'm saying is that's the nuance that you need to think about is, it's new solar. I can actually deploy new solar and retire existing coal, okay? And then the whole, you open a Pandora's box here, saying, okay, I wanna do that because I'm an economist and I learned this cool thing. I'm gonna apply this, right? And that's where it gets into real decision making. And what Esther talked about, it's about just transitions, right? You're gonna deal with lobbies. You're gonna deal with our president in the US, right? Because it's about the jobs of the coal workers, right? So how do you make sure that you're prescribing a solution? You're prescribing a solution where you're clearly showing the value being created in the process. You're creating value. Value means dollar amounts. You're gonna save money. And I've already shown that example of variable cost being kind of the average cost being lower than variable cost. So you're saving money right there, right? But I can also figure out other ways to save money. And I'm not gonna go into details. But then once that money that's being saved, could I use that money in a way to do just transitions? And just transition means that you're creating a mechanism to transfer money across different stakeholder groups. That you end up creating a win-win situation and create a solution that's politically feasible, okay? So that's an example of creating win-win situations using finance. Where you actually first figure out the value, and then you figure out ways through economic principles to how do you make the solutions equitable, right? You must have heard this term called equity. So that's the second example. And the third project that I worked on last year was this whole question of mini-grids. So that's also part of energy system transition. In many countries, and India as another example, now we have, we're really focused on energy access because that's a sustainable development goal, right? So how do you create business models and financing mechanisms to make sure that you are again creating value that is again creating win-win situations? And I can answer detailed questions on that, but that was another project that I worked on, okay? Now I'll just kind of stop there on my work and I want to give you a few other teasers on potential projects, right? That we are thinking about, that potentially where students can connect on. And obviously there are a lot more projects beyond what Esther talked about and what I am talking about. So one of the projects is, and this is just giving more color to our bullet points, right? One of the project could be, and if you're interested in finance, you're coming from portfolio optimization or from banking industry or investment industry. And that question is, we talked about this trillions of investments needed, right? You have heard these numbers, 1, 2, 4, 1.6 to 3.5 trillion a year. We need that investment in clean infrastructure and clean energy. But how do we convince the investors to invest? Right? Because when you go to investors, by the way, this is the flip side of the coin because we make a lot of noise saying, hey, we need this money, you guys are not investing. And you go to investors and the investors say, you know what? Give us good projects. Give us a way to invest. Show us there's value in investing in these projects. And again, I'm using this term value in a loose way, but how do you show value? So the idea where I'm going with this is that you again need to show the investors through your research, our research, that there's value in investing in these projects. These projects means clean energy, green infrastructure, electric vehicles, whatever your pet thing is, right? And let me dig a little bit deeper, because it's getting towards a question that you could answer as your master's thesis or a PhD thesis, right? The question is, if I could create an asset class which is essentially renewable energy assets, can you show that that asset class in a portfolio optimization problem add value in the terms of, is it reducing risk in a portfolio? Is it increasing returns in a portfolio? So this is the kind of work we're starting to do, right? I will say one more thing and then I'll stop and I don't know how we are doing on time. Yeah, yeah, so this is related to what Esther had mentioned as climate risk as connecting to financial risk, okay? Because climate risk comes in two forms and actually comes in three forms. One is called the physical risk that you guys all know about, right? Physical risk is what? Anybody? What is the physical risk? We've been talking, so I think I'll put this into a class. What's a physical risk? Fires, high temperatures, floods, cyclones, right? So that's physical risk and so one is this physical risk and if the physical risks are increasing that you can connect it to financial numbers, right? If I'm an investor with a real estate portfolio that I'm holding on to bunch of properties in Florida, right? Can you identify how that risk is increasing in a two degree scenario, in a four degree scenario? Because that has implications for financial decision making, right? So that's an example of a question that people are working on, students could work on, right? How do you identify the implication of a scenario or different scenarios on the financial assets, okay? So that's a physical risk side. But there are other risks that are coming up. And one of the risks that we will hear being talked about is called transition risk. Anybody knows about transition risk? What's a transition risk? Exactly, exactly. So the transition risk is what businesses care about, right? So you, as a business, operate in an environment which has multiple parameters, right? There's policy and regulation. Markets, the technologies, which was your example, they're all changing, right? And because climate change is such a dynamic problem, our businesses today accounting for the potential transition risks in terms of policy changes, market changes, technology changes, are they accounting for it? And the answer is to a large extent, no. Because the issue is they don't even know what the transition scenarios are. What is the likely impact of those scenarios on their valuations, company valuations? And fundamentally, they don't even know what are the probabilities of these transitions. Like for example, at least in the physical risk side, I can do some modeling using AI and machine learning, right? Transition risk is a much harder problem. But where I want to stop is that, what we are starting to think in our group, and we are trying to kind of catalyze this throughout Stanford is, and this is very, very, I've been talking mostly about economics and finance and then talking about economic terms and financing terms. But this is one of the big open problem today, which is how do I use AI and machine learning techniques to model climate risk? You know, this thing I just talked about. How do I model the probability of these transitions, right? It's a real dynamic problem that you have to predict, right? So I think this, with that, I mean, I think I've run through multiple examples of what I do, what our center does. Hopefully it gives you a sense. And as Esther had said that, please feel free to reach out to any of us. Please do CC Alicia on that, because Alicia is our main interface. But we hope to work with many of you going forward. So again, welcome. Yes, happy to take questions. Hi, my name is Eric and I'm an MSNE. So it seems almost common sense that all these investors who have maybe holdings in like utility stock know that there's a lot of risk, you know, with climate risk and fire. Are they waiting for sort of models and results to come out to help guide them, you know, away from these investments and towards sort of safer and less climate risky investments and they're waiting for studies like these that you guys are spearheading to come out or are you approaching them or is it is it two-sided? Yeah, so should I go first? So I think it's not, if I implied that it's not correct. I think investors are aware of these issues. It's just that some of this decision making is easier for them. For example, if you see the valuation of coal companies or coal plants, that has gone down because that's an obvious thing. But some of the things are not that straightforward, not that easy like this whole issue of transition risk, right? So it's an answer which basically is all of the above. People are different places on that spectrum. And that's why it creates an opportunity for us to create evidence so that they can incorporate that evidence in their decision making. Just to be, you know, just to give more color to that, equity investors are starting to think about transition risk and how would that transition risk impact their portfolio optimization problem? So it's just starting, right? On the debt side, central banks are starting to think about this and trying to tell that they're going to talk about in an open forum saying, look, we need to worry about this transition risk issue and figuring out how perhaps make that part of this whole thing they call Basel, Basel protocol for bank regulation, right? So it's all very, very active, okay? So just to add on, that question also highlights the importance of what we call intermediaries. Whose role is to bring together the investors, the financiers, the project developers, basically everyone to form, in my case, the finance vehicle. And usually the intermediaries are, that role is played by MDPs because multilateral development banks, because they speak the language of both financiers and development or public goods. So increasingly the role of intermediaries is increasing this climate finance arena because there is a mismatch between supply and demand and there has to be someone playing the role, bridging them together. Thanks. I have two questions. The first one should be simple and the second one a bit more complicated. The first one is, are you guys looking at the cost of renewables in a future scenario where penetration is high in a country for instance? Because we have to get to zero by 2050, but I would imagine that the cost of renewables becomes exorbitantly expensive without the right storage technologies, etc. Is that something that SFI is looking at? And the second question? And the second question is, in terms of the final point that you made around pricing the risk of climate change, I was wondering if this is going to inform, if the goal here was to inform portfolios so that they devalue their assets based on climate change and by some rate. And if they do invest in renewables, then that factor, that destruction of value can be reduced. Is that how that mechanism would inform investors? Yes, so the first question is yes. And I think that's kind of a reasonably well-known fact that as you have more renewables going to the system, the system level cost of dealing with variability and intermittency is going to go up. And that's what I was alluding to in the beginning. So you have to do cost minimization at a system level. So that's part of what we look at. You have to, because at the end of the day, as economists, we are trying to minimize system costs. So that's number one. The number two is this whole question about as the models improve and as investors get better understanding of these different scenarios and the probabilities of those scenarios with the rebalance their portfolios. And that's exactly what I was trying to say through my speech. But that's exactly what it is, that you will end up, and the idea that they will end up rebalancing their portfolio. And again, to rebalance the portfolio, it connects to another thing I had said. They have to have indices that you create that you can allocate some of your money to. And so it all goes together. So hopefully I've answered both the questions. Thank you for that. Actually, the question now, she has the question again. So we'll go there. Yeah. Yes. So a lot of the risk you're talking about may not be the physical risk and transition risk. It seems like it will happen not necessarily the next year or two, but in like 10 years plus. So how are you working with investors to overcome their more short term perspective and then you need to have quarterly returns to make their investors happy versus that longer term risk, which is a wiser decision in the long run. You want to take that? Sure. I don't think the risk is long term. It's already there, and it's already been incorporated into their assessments, assessment before they invest in any type of project. And infrastructure projects tend to have a very long term period from the construction to implementation. And that's why institutional investors who have longer period of looking at things are a perfect type of investors to bring into the table for this type of infrastructure project, but for other types of investors. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you bring up a very valid point, and I want to make sure that everybody is aware of that. Because when we talk about climate risks, and Esther is right that we're starting to see the impacts now, but in terms of material impact on valuation on properties or investments or asset classes, physical risk and transition risk are what we call 10 to 30 year problems. So as you go out more in time, you see more of an impact. Whereas most of the decision makers, whether it's policy makers or investors, they operate in less than a five year time horizon, if so. They're operating sometimes in a two year time horizon. So how do you align the two is a hard problem, and we don't have a solution for that yet, by the way. And that creates work for all of us. But having said that, I want to connect to Esther's point about you have to start working with actors where it matters now. And institutional investors, it matters now. Because they invest long term. So they need to know what's happening on their assets. Insurance companies need to know now. So I think the idea is to start working with stakeholders who start caring, who will have enough of a weight, and then you start creating this momentum that becomes more mainstream. So if you're from the marketing side of things, it's the early stages of the diffusion process. So you have to go to the early adopters kind of in some sense. But by the way, central banks, and this is something that if Tom Heller or faculty had, if he would be here, he would talk about this a lot. Central banks are under a lot of risk. Central banks are the Fed, the US Fed. They are under a lot of risk because countries as a whole are under a lot of risk. Countries actually, by the way, if you don't know, countries hold a lot of these fossil fuel assets on their balance sheet. And we are starting to do analysis which shows how much is this value at risk on the country's balance sheet. That's one study that was just done on South Africa. And it shows that a lot of the assets that South Africa, as a government, South African bank hold on their books are at risk because of climate transition. So all this is starting to happen. It's a very active field. So I'll stop there. It's a hard problem. Yes. Hi. So increasingly more investors are interested in ESG. However, data available for publicly traded companies is quite limited yet. So what are your thoughts and policies to push for more transparency and standardization of data? And we are part of this whole initiative, but this task force for financial disclosure, especially in the investors community, is there. So I think a lot of these initiatives are there and a lot of these initiatives we are part of. But the whole idea is you're right that to even evaluate risk or to kind of communicate that risk to a particular stakeholder, we need to have data. And so data, that data is starting to, you know, being collected and kind of being made public. So that's also, it's a work in progress. And it's also very active area of research. How do you even figure out, you know, one of our colleagues, so young, who is not here, is working on how do you get objective measurements of environmental, social, governance metrics at a company level so that you can actually make decisions? Because right now a lot of these ESG metrics are self-reported so they can be gained, right? So how do you do that? Anyway, so there's a lot of interesting stuff happening. But every question you're asking is like making me think of a lot of interesting questions that you could yourself answer, right? So that's a good thing. It's a new area. But I guess that was the last question, right? Yes, you're welcome to stick around for the week. We can stick around. Happy to answer questions one-on-one. But thank you for coming here and I wish you luck. It's a great place. I think the real challenge at Stanford is how do you sit in classrooms when the weather is so great outside and you could be hiking all the time, right? But it's a wonderful place to be so welcome. And I did my PhD from here so I have a really hard time getting out of this place after 20 years. So that attests to that. Thank you. Girish Anastur, thank you so much. We will go to break now and be back at 10 o'clock.