 Hey this week on the anxious truth. We're gonna talk about how to get unstuck when you're just stuck and desperate and think you have nowhere to go How can you get unstuck? So let's get going Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to the anxious truth. This is podcast episode number 209 Recorded I don't know when we're recording. It's April of 2022. I don't know when you're gonna hear this May June don't know Anyway, welcome back to the podcast if this is your first time here I am droolence a lot of creator and host of the anxious truth This is the podcast where we talk about all things anxiety anxiety recovery So if you're having problems with things like panic attacks or gorophobia, this is the place for you Welcome, I'm glad you're here. And if you are a returning listener or viewer on YouTube, what up YouTube welcome back Of course, I'm glad you're here today. We have a guest I'm joined by my friend Joe Ryan who has been on the podcast before you guys may recognize Joe And we're gonna go through a story of how Joe got unstuck and so much of this stuff is going to sound familiar I think it's it's just jam packed with really useful information practical information It applies to everything we talk about recovery, but here's the beauty part It's not beauty part is my friend that I wish it wasn't true But Joe comes from a trauma background Joe has has lived through a bunch of traumatic experiences So for those of you who are dealing with past traumatic Experiences and abuse in your past and also have an anxiety disorder Joe's a good guy to listen to and we really marry these together in this story of getting unstuck I think you're gonna really dig it before we get to the interview, which is really good I'm gonna remind you that the anxious truth is more than just this podcast episode If you go to my website at the anxious truth calm We'll find three what I think are excellent books on anxiety and anxiety recovery You will find my morning newsletter and podcast called the anxious morning You should check that out and links to all of my other podcast episodes all of which are free and all of my social media content Everything is right there at the anxious truth calm And if you are liking this work, and I'm helping you in some way and you want to find a way to help me keep it Ed free and sponsorship free all the ways to support the work are at the anxious truth calm Support so go check that out if you are so inclined Never required but always appreciated. So let us get on to the interview I will bring Joe on and then I'll come back at the end to wrap it up Give you all his links how you can find him and I'll be back afterwards. Hope you enjoy this. Alrighty. Here he is the one The only Joe Ryan welcome back We're some in front of your like comedy seller brick wall dig it. Yeah You don't want to see what's behind there. No, nobody ever wants to see behind the scenes Thanks for coming back man We haven't done one of these in a really long time and every time we do everybody loves him So I'm glad you're back. All right. Good. Glad to be here, man Yeah, so today I like I mentioned in the intro We're gonna talk about how you get unstuck because Joe's Particular story of getting unstuck in this particular instance is Is exactly what you guys need to hear like how he went through this so let's set the whole thing up You know you you where are you coming? Where are you right now? Where am I right now? I'm in New York City My apartment in your apartment in New York City, right? So this is remember this as Joe starts to tell the story So at the time that this story starts you're out here on the island. You're living out here on the island, correct? Okay, so so yeah, take it away. What happens? How do you get from living on the island and not doing so great to where you are now? Well, I was basically bankrupt homeless divorced Just went through like a major tragedy You know, I built this life up of a house and a business and everything and it just kind of all collapsed and I threw away 17 years of sobriety. I went back to what I knew what was familiar. I was I was completely stuck I could not go forward. I was sitting in shame I was miserable and being homeless living in somebody's spare room The life I went back to was no longer speaking to me at some point all addictions fail and there was a part of me unconsciously that knew nothing outside of myself was gonna Bring me to a place that I wanted to be not a job not money not drugs not women not getting nothing It just I was stuck. I was on the couch and I was slowly becoming agoraphobic I was afraid to go out. I was afraid to open up mail You know the simplest chores like making coffee took like an hour and a half of mental preparation to walk eight feet and hit a button And I just kept doing the same things I was doing but I was miserable I was going out a little bit here and there and I was more miserable being out than I was being home and isolated and I Knew something had to change. I just didn't know how you know You spent your heart entire life building up to this place and it all falls apart And you don't have a plan B. Yeah, so I was stuck I mean like the way I like to call it. I was emotionally paralyzed. I couldn't move I Was sitting in uncomfortable feelings. I was fearful Just helpless Yeah, and I wanted to make a change Yeah, I remember those days you were you were just I mean it was hard It was hard to see you back then because you were definitely in that just it was almost despondent in a way Is the word that I can describe Yeah, I remember we met in that parking lot we had to exchange something and you were looking at me and I go dude I don't think it's ever gonna get any better than this. Yeah, and I truly believe that I didn't want to be here anymore So I Remembered when I was a kid I used to hang out in the city. I studied in the city I loved Manhattan. It was the energy the vibe. I felt alive in there and I decided I wanted to go and I wanted to go in there But I couldn't make it to my corner without like for how it's a mental preparation and armoring up and you know How are you gonna put this helpless? codependent agoraphobic child in the middle of these village and have them survive So for nine months, I kept texting people and calling people You know tried to get somebody to go into the city with me because I felt like I couldn't handle it on my own And after about nine months nobody responded nobody wanted to go and You know, I kept trying to work my courage up to doing it and One Thursday I drove to the Huntington train station and the trains run every hour And I sat there for four hours and I let four trains go by and I turned around I drove home completely defeated and you know sat in more shame and helplessness and panic For another six days and the next Thursday came I drove to the train station again And I sat there and one train went by and then another thing went by and I got on the third train and I was Freaking out. I tried to mentally prepare for anything that may happen. Any confrontations. I wanted to do it right and You know just tried to manage the fear and I kept thinking about the movie. What about Bob baby steps on the bus baby steps on the bus So that hour-long train ride felt like a month and a half just the terror and the panic and the unrest within my body And we got to Penn station. I got off the train. I walked upstairs I walked around and I walked right back down to Penn and I got on the train and I went home Yeah, and there was something happened That that night when I got home, I had found I'm getting emotional thinking about it I had found a smile somewhere inside that had been missing for about four years and I sat with that I laid in bed. It was dark. It was quiet and instead of fear there was joy and surprise and Hope You know, there was a sense of Competency Yeah, you know that I hadn't felt in a long time and you know as a grown man. Okay big deal You got on the train and you got Went to the city. You got on a train and came home. It's like big whoop. Okay, you know Everybody listening right now completely relates to what you're talking about. So we get that in a big way I want to go back for a second to you know, you go to the Huntington train station You know, we both I've been there many times you just wait five trains go by to go home And you when you go home you say well, I sit in the shame and the failure And in those in those days like I was one of those people getting the text. Do you want to go into the city? Not having any idea why you wanted me to go to the city with you other than just, you know, a social thing What you know, you hit it in such a way that like well, yeah It would be like a thing to do, you know on a Thursday night, I guess But you're not thinking about it because I had no idea why you wanted me to go into the city Or I'm sure why else that you were asking we didn't know why that you needed Why did you need me to go? I didn't know so I get the shame you were hiding it Nobody is allowed to see my neediness when I feel needy. I go into shame. I go into self-hate So I cover that up and I hide it and I don't let anybody know because I can't handle It feels like giving away my power Um, it makes me feel helpless out of control And I just don't like it neediness from where I came from was met with serious adversity So you learn not to have needs and wants and desires and to lean on people So I wouldn't I mean we know each other forever You know all my deep dark crazy shit, but I still wouldn't have let you or anybody else know that at the time No idea, but now let's fast forward to that first trip where okay You hop on the train. It's about an hour from Huntington to Penn through Jamaica, you know You get on the train you get to Penn you walk upstairs you walk around to get back on the train and go home Which seems like well, that's not a trip to the city But everybody listening well, I hope some folks listening will understand when you say you found a smile there that sense of competency There's almost a little bit of superhero feeling that comes along with that when you see the thing that you were so afraid to do There are a few moments after that where you just you feel like you can now conquer the world Did you have that for a little bit? Yeah, I did it felt amazing. It was you know, I'm an emotional child My emotional growth was stunted at an early age and you know, I'm an adult body but emotionally I'm a child and you know that somehow I adopted that little kid through the fear and It was the coming together of the outer adult and the inner kid in a sense and there was this feeling of Accomplishment You know, I surprised and impressed myself. I guess is what it was and that feeling I still have today It's addicting when I get stuck and you know, this you know, you're always going to get stuck there's always going to be things that come up that are tough tough to get through And I tackle them in a different way now because I know the feeling on the other end is just Incredible when you can surprise and impress yourself and move through fear. It's almost like you look back and go really I was Yeah, I can't I've been stopping my life and stopping doing what I wanted to do because of what fear Seriously, there is something to be said for that You know before you know and my folks talk in terms of exposures before the exposure You're literally kind of you know, you're cowering on the platform of the loyal railroad And then after the you're literally like, you know The end of Armageddon when they're just in slow motion walking down the runway and they just save the world and the music is playing Suddenly you're that at the end of the exposure like yeah like Yes, you walk in slow mo out of the explosion and the music is playing and you're the hero It's amazing, but anyway, so one trip into the city does not fix this problem. What happens from there Yeah, so then it was sitting with that good feeling and I wrote it for a couple of days And then it started to wane and the helplessness and the panic and the fear started to come back So next thursday same thing got in the car drove to the train station got on the first train So we're improving right we're taking these small little steps and we're just adding on a little more and more Went into the city got out walked around for a little while got myself something to eat Got back on the train went back to Long Island and had that feeling except it was greater And it just kept building within me and that feeling kept lasting Days right through the weekend about monday or tuesday. It was like back to helplessness. You're not impressing yourself You're not moving forward. You're falling back into stock Next thursday first train in Took my camera went all the way up the central park to pictures got myself something to eat Went back home just kept building more and more confidence as I kept walking through more and more fear It is a literal now. I understand you're dealing with a slightly different background than maybe some of the folks listening and And i'm going to mention this at the end of the podcast also But you can hear all of joe stuff at joe ryan.com if you want to hear his background, but The mechanics are exactly the same And this is one of the reasons for everybody that's listening why when when you roll and say the facebook group and you say Hey, I went to the mall for the first time in three years I'm going to give you a big fist bump and then we're going to say do it again Okay, now do it again and listen to the way joe described that like the you know the feeling waned So if you do it once and then just sit there it won't last It was the repetition over and over and over that that got you there Yes, absolutely. It was just keep practicing keep exposing keep building Pay attention to the feelings start to see what when they came up what the situations were Try to map that fear back to some experiences why they're there and work through them, you know, I've been avoiding fear and uncomfortable feelings probably since about dna until up until that point, you know and The way through it is to feel it and experience it and you know Just not avoid and it's hard. It's painful if that nervous system goes off the charts You're overwhelmed you get that lightheaded start sweating You crawl into this emotional ball and you just kind of in the fetus position go and please don't hurt me type of deal Yeah But you're you're such a good example and this story continues by the way This is clearly not the end of the story, but You're such a good example of somebody and we talk about this all the time like oh, but I have trauma It's different But you're looking at a guy on screen if you're watching or you're listening right now That is almost the textbook example of how you deal with all of it all of it like the anxiety and the trauma So when joe talks about like hey, you know, I can map some of that fear back to old experiences In in the mechanics of an anxiety disorder we tend not to talk about that But if there is a traumatic background that is part of the process and it all gets done Together in sync in sequence sometimes trauma sometimes anxiety sometimes both at the same time Like you're looking at a guy who actually has lived this so And so well So at this point now from the outside looking in as your friend and you know, we work together We've been friends for so long all of a sudden you become a city dude I'm I literally watch you become a city guy like you know and just couldn't wait for that Thursday night It was just became almost an addiction but in a good way, you know And starting to express so like this is where I'm happiest. This is this is great. These are my favorite nights of the week This is so important. So from can't leave the house afraid to get on the train to I can't wait to get back in there So what happens from here? So I in three years. I missed six Thursdays either to vacation or illness It was I couldn't live without it I would feel incredible From the time I got home Thursday night till about Monday or Tuesday and then it was like, you know what? I need the energy. I need the vibe. I need to Just go and be and I ended up making friends here I hang out downtown. I listen to music. I started to build the life So when I had my kids on the island, I'd be out there three and a half days and the other three and a half days I would start renting hotel rooms in the city. I would crash at friends houses. I was in here every free moment I had and I ended up building a life and When the pandemic hit prices of apartments went ridiculously low in the city and You know, I had to have a conversation with my kids because they're everything and I didn't want them to feel abandoned or You know unloved and my daughter was going away to college So I wasn't going to see her anyway and my son, you know found his friends and found girls and you know, he looked at me and this Just said, listen, I need to lean on my friends more. You did your job I don't really plan on coming on weekends anymore. I'm gonna be staying at my friend's house I've seen you happy in two places. One is at the lake house and one is in the city You should go and live your life and be happy and That's fucking kid man. Like I'm crying thinking about it. It was Like so supportive and so loving and so caring that it made this Easier, you know, and then it was the fear of Doing it, you know, like I'm codependent I always need a safety net making sure somebody's there to pick me up and I knew once I came in here that all of that was going to go away And I had to stand on my own two feet and figure everything out that I've been avoiding forever and I moved in and created a life and I am the city guy. You can't uh, it's really tough to get me off this island It's amazing. You know as somebody again, Joe and I are friends. So, you know, I get to watch this The transformation was incredible like from from afraid to go wanting to go but afraid to go to Living there now like, you know happy. That's clearly where you belong and how many times we have that conversation Like dude, why are you not there? Clearly that is where you belong And I think one of the things that this Really illustrates we talk about recovery as Sort of a march from being driven by fear to being driven by what matters to you What's what are your values? What defines you? What is important to you? I cannot think of a story that illustrates this more this story illustrates so many so many great aspects of recovery I am governed by fear and just trying to avoid my fear and and soothe that to I am living a life based on What I actually value what makes me feel good what feeds my soul all of those things What a change tremendous it I don't even recognize myself, but I don't I've never felt more like me and you know So many things live in here are fearful. I mean, you know, it's it's a beautiful city. It's a great city It's it's a tough city. It's pretty unforgiving at times And I started to realize how many fears I did have, you know, I played a lot of sports when I was a kid and I've been wanting to play softball for about 20 30 years and You know, the some of the the beautiful things about the story is when I first moved in here One of the first things I did was join a softball league I was terrified. I was afraid, you know, all those infancy needs came up Are you going to be you know, is it going to come back? Are you going to be half the player you are you going to make a fool out of yourself? And I joined this team and I met this guy Rob And him and I have become best friends. We are so similar. It's like we've known each other our whole life You know, I have a ton of friends downtown I built the life On the foundation of me and not what I thought I should be and what people expect of me Like cutting everybody out and living here and fending for yourself and doing it on your own You really truly find out who you are what you like what you're made of what you'll accept and what you will not And it's going through that fear and I've made some great friendships here. I have a great life now I'm very happy to be here and it's just building on that. It's not enough You know, I I feel like there's I could be so much more than I am And there's still fear that stands in front of me But that was a huge hurdle And I basically taught myself that I'm stronger than my fears. I just have to keep chipping away at him and eventually The fears become confidence There there you go. I we can might as well drop the mic right now. That's it That we can't do any better than that. That's that's a worth price brish and the price of admission right there people I think you know the and the moral of story here is how do you get unstuck from being stuck Glued mired concrete. You were in cement shoes, dude in the worst. I saw it And it was just one step at a time It wasn't you know on friday. I was stuck into the concrete and on sunday I was living my best life It it took a while and I I watched you take one step than another step than another one another one than more and more and bigger steps And and I think it's important to recognize too that you spent two years or whatever it was Every spare moment of your time was in the city. Clearly it was where you're happy You're practically living there anyway yet when it came time to actually move there was still more fear It's it's not like here. Just nothing's ever there's no anxiety anymore. Nothing's ever there's no apprehension. There's no fear, of course There's because that's life Right and that's the thing is once for me once I conquered a lot of the bigger fears The fears that come up. Yeah, they're debilitating at times Yeah, I can tendency to crawl up in the ball every once in a while when they're overwhelming But it's not that cowering Away from it. It is okay. This is overwhelming. I'm not sure how to move forward with this Some of this is just time and getting my nervous system my body used to leaning into it instead of pulling away from it And you work through it you expose yourself and it's overwhelming and you retreat a little bit And then you recapture your energy and you recharge and then you come at it Just a little bit more and you even if it's a couple of inches and that's the thing It's patience Which I have zero Typically like I want to feel I'm an addict. I want to feel good right now Don't tell me this is a four-year plan because I'm not signing up for that but it is Managing expectations Looking at what you have done and not far you have to go if I look at the top of the mountain I'm not getting off the couch If I tell myself I just need to climb up 10 steps And it's too windy. It's too cold on that cliff. I'm going to come back those 10 steps to base camp I'm going to recharge and then I'm going to go 20 steps And eventually you get to a point where you build a base camp higher up on that mountain And you keep going up a little bit you come back until you feel safe and confident Within the fears and then you move more and then you build another base camp And you just keep climbing one step at a time if you told me you had to Manage all your fears and be in the city today if this was four years ago I would have never done it if it was just get on the train, bro Like that's all I need you to do today. All right, just yeah, so yeah, which is exactly good So it's it's learning how to parent yourself It's learning how to discipline that little child that runs amuck in you and say listen You need to put your fears away for an hour while I take care of this you can be Fearful and I will experience it with you But we're going to get through this and I'm going to take care of it for a little while and then We're going to manage it together and eventually those two start to join So it's not these big gaps of this paralyzing fear where I can't move forward It is fear comes up and it's like I can move forward. Maybe not today But let's just start working towards it. Let's identify it and let's work through it a little at a time And who knows how long it takes some for me. There's a light bulb that goes on and goes. Oh my god That was it. That was the fear really. This is what I was worried about And sometimes that comes quick and other times it is like walking through cement It's just so painful and so difficult in those minutes feel like years But if you don't do it, it's just you know, nobody's going to knock on the door and go Hey, your fears take it away. Come on start living You have to live the life you want figure out what kind of life you want to live and start slowly working towards it Yeah, in the end, that's what it is I mean we build exposures which are artificial ways to trigger the fear and that's fine because we have to practice But in the end we are really moving away from fear and toward what we value toward what we really want in life That is the recovery process in the end And I think that's great And so what I love about this is not that there's no more fear But do you find that there's two things I think to bring up number one all the previous experiences become additive So every time you slog through the cement You get a little bit more confidence and competency for the next time that you have to slog through cement Absolutely, it's every fear that I I feel like every fear that I work through Is just another building block of the foundation of me So if I go through this fear, whatever the fear is and I no longer have to fear it I am standing taller. I am feeling more confident more secure in myself because I've handled it So when it comes up again, sometimes it's not even triggering. Sometimes it's just like, oh, yeah Remember when we used to be afraid of that Not anymore Yeah, but other and other times it will bring you back like you'll get that twinge like oh shit Yeah, and it's like wow, I haven't felt that feeling in a while. Where did that? Oh, I remember that now Yeah, we're good. We worked through that. Let's just manage this feelings for a few minutes and next time it comes up We're going to be more aware. Yeah. Yeah, it's great And I think you know that so those additive experiences and building of that confidence and that ability and understanding like Oh, I'm capable of all this It really gets to the point where it moves the fear. We always talk about, you know, disordered anxiety versus regular like regular anxiety It's disordered fear versus regular fear like everybody has fear and anxiety in their lives and Joe's experience moves it from a disordered place or an unhealthy place into like more of a healthy Like everybody experiences fear and we have to we find healthy ways to deal with it Like I've just watched you learn to have healthy ways to deal with fear. It's amazing Yeah, when you know and part of this for me, I mean, I'm more trauma-based than anxiety-based even though I have a ton of both So a lot, you know, my fears I like to map back To experiences and that's the thing. I don't know. I just feel fear and panic in my body And I'm not sure why it's there. So I have to really tell myself Look around right now. There is nothing in your present moment that is dangerous At all whatsoever Why do I feel like I have a gun to my head at this moment? And for me a lot of it is just past experiences, you know, you know, the abuse and the The fear and living in in terror a lot growing up That something will trigger me and take me back to this little boy So the fear from me comes from being emotionally stuck and that fear hit when I was a kid There was no way of managing it for me. There was no way of understanding it. There was no way of processing it So I actually like I don't like I I need to go back To feel with that seven-year-old and that five-year-old felt and absorb that fear and reframe it and process it for myself So when I get triggered in the present I try to map it back to an experience so that I can reframe it that it doesn't affect my present or my future I think that's such an important point because yes, we are we are coming from different places You know that the anxiety disorder versus the trauma But it really isn't versus in a way and for a lot of people in my community They coexist unfortunately and that's that's I hate that but it's true I think but if you anybody who's listening to you talk will recognize okay for you You are mapping back to sort of root causes Which we for somebody would say panic disorder or agoraphobia the root cause becomes detached now you never got there But nonetheless the mechanics become the same the mechanics boil down to okay Let me step back when you just said I had to step back and look and say wait. Nothing here is dangerous right now Even though I feel like I have a gun to my head It's it's experiential learning like you act. Okay. Well, I'm gonna have to move through this fear What can I do now that teaches my brain that I'm not in danger anymore? Whereas somebody who's dealing maybe with no trauma just panic disorder has to do the exact same thing Except the lesson there is let me teach my brain that there is no there is no danger. I don't have to there's no mapping For you it's like no there was but now there's not but the person with panic disorder. It's well There's just not there wasn't there was no mapping but in the end the mechanism is the same. It's astounding like it's Absolutely and even now, you know when things come up and you get that anxious disturbance inside There's like Something triggers the emotions kick in then go to thought for me thought kind of takes away the pain and the anxiety So my emotions and my thoughts are having this conversation And I usually attach to it and it's like hold on wait. I gotta mediate Please everybody just stop for one second. You know stop fighting with each other And you get in there and you try to manage the emotions and the thoughts what I've learned is for me I pull back in a sense And I let them have that dialogue And I'm watching break in bed. Go ahead knock yourselves out beat the crap out of each other for an hour However, long it takes I'm just gonna hang out with Walter white for a little while until it subsides like Attaching to the panic and the fear and the thoughts for me just spirals down to like seven hours of this intense Trying to manage the fear where sometimes if I can do it I'll just pull back and let the fear and the emotions and the thoughts run amok And try to function the best I can would it be and then it's not always good You know the results, but That's ugly and you know, it's yeah But but that separation that air gap we talk about that in this community like just making that little bit of a space We use pauses we use all kinds of techniques to do that like make a space between the fear and you And between the fear and that automatic ingrained reaction that you've always had for you Which was digging digging digging digging digging, you know But it's the same for somebody who is dealing with panic attacks who's listening to us right now You're gonna spend the next six hours trying to figure it out solve it stop it You know wonder why it's happening or you could just let it happen Like joe is describing and in the end you wind up ahead of the game that way Even though the process of doing that is ugly and scary and nasty and emotional and all of those things But trying to figure it out You know put you deeper in the hole sometimes It it does and that's a balance for me to figure out one I really need to go back to traumatic events and now I can tell the difference in the pain and the fear Right. So pain and fear was just kind of one thing for me Now I can kind of differentiate between the pain Something painful and something fearful. So when it's painful, I know I need to go back And go to that painful place when it's fear I've learned that it's like just get out of your own way And let let them do get out inside you and eventually it's going to run out of energy and power and You know that you could just Feel more peaceful inside That's tremendous. I love how you separated fear and pain there And I think for a lot of people listening, I appreciate that because I can't speak to that intelligently and like I don't know anybody who can't like you That's great. Like when is it time to dig? Well, maybe when there's pain When is it time to not dig maybe when there's just fear? That's That's huge, dude Well, it took me Took me decades to get to that But that's kind of like the new thing I've been on for like the last year because everything Fear and pain was one thing and I would go down that hole And never when I go down that path to the past And I don't end up at a destination where there's Resolution it ends up to be way more frustrating. So Learning the difference between the two has helped a lot What a good conversation. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that We've been talking about doing this for the longest time and then we finally did So I will wrap everything up, you know, I'll be back when we end this and I'll give you the old Joe's links and everything We'll wrap up like we usually do but where can people find you and we should talk about that thing We're going to try and do in the city, too Okay. Yeah, that'd be great. Uh, you can find me at joe ryan.com on instagram. I'm at joe ryan and my podcast is called It's not you it's your trauma. Yeah, I think a lot of the folks listening may already know your podcast But if you're not go check it out and this is how old joe ryan is and how long he's been on the internet He owns joe ryan.com 15 million joe ryan's and he got the name I keep getting offered people want to buy it from me all the time. I'm like, yeah, I don't know man I'm not selling Before we before we ended and I'll come back to do the wrap up afterwards We should probably talk about that if you guys enjoy this conversation and these are conversations You're like eavesdropping now essentially We've had these conversations for years and years and years in the office and parking lots and bars and we're at all kinds of different places But uh, if you want to eavesdrop on more of these conversations, we have been trying to plan a live event in new york city We had it all set up and then covid exploded again and that day that was a blizzard which turned out to be And I had and I had long covid so it was horizontal for three months So I wouldn't wouldn't have made it so yeah, so it's in new york city It's going to be drew and I we're going to be talking trauma and anxiety. I think what are we shooting for june? Yeah, I think we're looking for june right now. So if you're following both of us either of us I'm sure we'll both make announcements if it would it's just a great time I think to be able to hang out with us and have this conversation in a really informal small group Not going to be thousands of people But we'll give you more details as that comes up that i'm looking forward to it's going to be great Yeah, me too. We're also uh, going to be working on a book together I think we're going to be working on a book together. Yeah. Yep So there's a lot of good stuff coming. Yeah. Yeah, so stay tuned. I have a lot of projects So I don't know how long that book's going to take but yeah, it's a thing Because now everybody said when is that book coming out like we'll not yeah, all right We're not really working on a book. No, it was a lie. It's a total lie. No, it's so We will work on a book together for sure, but uh, joe. Thanks a bunch, man. I really appreciate it Thanks for a good scene again. I stay tuned and I'll wrap it up Okay, we are back in the studio meaning at the same desk. I was at 15 seconds ago with joe as always I hope you enjoy that. I really enjoyed doing it. Joe and I are friends for many years So we talk all the time anyway I'm going to try and get him on the podcast a little bit more regularly But if you want to go find him in all of his stuff his podcasts and all of his socials Go to joe ryan.com and you can check it out if you go to the anxious truth.com slash 209 The show notes for this episode will be there. I'll have all of joe links joe's links also if that makes it easier for you So that is it that is episode 209. I hope if nothing else I hope joe story becoming upset uh unstuck provides some measure of maybe hope or inspiration or encouragement or motivation because it is just full of that And uh, take that out of it if you will So we are done. You know, it's over because music As always, this is after glow by ben drake and if you want to find ben and his music You can find him at ben drake music com tell me said hello if you find him great guy and a great musician I'm going to ask you the same favors that I always do if you're listening to this podcast on apple or spotify Or some platform that lets you rate or review the podcast Leave a five star rating and maybe take a second and write a couple of sentences as a review if you dig the podcast Because it helps other people find it and that's why we're here to try and reach and help as many people as we can If you're watching on youtube then like the video leave a comment I promise I will interact with you because i'm enjoying the youtube comments these days Subscribe to the channel tell your friends all the things that is it. We are out of here I will be back next week. I do not know what i'm going to be talking about as usual But I will be here and I will leave you by reminding you that this is the way It's in these feelings that you never show Yeah, you're doing fine It's all around you you can breathe it in This is where your story begins You got the feeling that you're gonna