 Good afternoon and welcome back to KubeCon. John Furrier and I are live here from the Kube Studios in Detroit, Michigan, and very excited for an afternoon chock full of content. John, how you holding up? They're doing great, they've got a great content. This episode is going to be really good. We're going to have like modern applications, red hat and conveyor, all the great stuff going on. Yes, and it's got a little bit of a community spin. Very excited. You know I've been calling out the great Twitter handles of our guests all week and I'm not going to stop now. We have with us a coffee art lover. Savita and she's joined with Christopher here from conveyor and red hat. Welcome to the show. Thank you. How are you doing? What's the vibe? Vibes good. Yeah, pretty good, yeah. Yeah, and has anything caught your attention? You guys are KubeCon veterans. We were talking about Valencia and shows prior. Anything sticking out to you this year? Yeah, just the amount of people here. Like post COVID it's just so nice to see this many people get together because the last couple of KubeCon that we've had, they've been good, but they've been much smaller and we haven't seen the same presence that we've had. And I feel like we're just starting to get back to normal what we had going like pre-COVID with KubeCon. The, go ahead. Oh, sorry, and for me it's the, how everyone's like still respectful of everyone else and that's what's sticking out to me. Like you go out of the conference center and you cannot see anyone like lost or like respecting anyone's space. But here it's still there, it keeps you safe. So like I'm super happy to be here. Yeah, I love that. I think that plays to the community. I mean the CNCF community is really special. All these open source projects are layered. You run community at Red Hat. So I also a little bit more about that. So I have been focusing on the Convair community site for a while now since Convair got accepted into the CNCF Sandbox project. I think, yeah, it's so exciting and it's like I'm so thrilled and I'm so excited for the project. So it's something that I believe in and I do a lot of Kubernetes stuff and I learned a lot from the community. The community is what keeps me coming back to every KubeCon and keep me contributing. So I'm taking all the good stuff from there and then like trying to incorporate that into the Convair community world. But for like not at a scale of like 20 or like 30,000 people, but at a scale of like, I don't know, hundreds, we are in hundreds and hoping to like expand it to like thousands by next year, hopefully, yeah. Talk about the project, give a quick overview what it is, where it's at now. Obviously it's got traction, you got some momentum. I want to hear the customer, but give a quick overview of the project. Why are people excited about it? Sure, so it is one of the open source of modernization tool sets that's available right now. So like that's super exciting. So many people want to contribute to it and what we basically do is like, you see a lot of large companies and they want to like do the migration and the journey and we just want to help them, you know, make their life easier. You know, we are like, so we are in this environment which is like, I don't know, by cars, think of it like a lane assist system or like think of it as an additional system, smart system, but that's not taking control. Like full control, but then it's there to like guide you through your journey safe and in a predictable way and you reach your destination point in a much happier, safer, and like sooner. So that's what we are doing. I know like that's a lot of talk, but if you want the technical thing, then I'll just say like, we are here to help everyone who wants to modernize, help them by re-fractoring and re-platforming their applications in a safer and predictable way at scale. I think I got everything. What do you think, Christopher? Yeah, I mean, we've seen a real need in the market to solve this problem as more and more companies are looking to go cloud native. And I feel like in the last 10 years, we had this period where a lot of companies were kind of dabbling in the cloud and they were identifying the low hanging fruit for their migration. So they were starting out with new applications in the cloud. We're just starting to move into a period where now they're trying to bring over legacy applications. Now they're trying to bring over the applications that have been running their business for 10, 20, even 30 years. And we're trying to help them solve the problem of how do we start with that? How do we take a holistic look at our applications and come up with a game plan of how we're going to bring those into being cloud native? Then, oh yeah, go. One of the things I want to get to, you mentioned re-platforming and re-factory. A lot of discussion on what that means now. Re-factory with the cloud, we see a lot of great examples. People really getting a competitive advantage by re-factory enough, because re-platforming also has meaning. It seems to be evolving. So you guys, can you share your thoughts on what's re-platforming versus re-factory? I'll let you go. Yeah. So for re-platforming, there's a few different stages that we can do this in. So we have this term in migration called lift and shift. Basically taking something as is and just plopping it in and then having certain technologies around it that make it act in a similar way as it was before, but in more of a cloud type of way. And this is a good way for people to get their feet wet, to get their applications into the cloud. But a lot of times they're not optimized around it. They're not able to scale. They're not able to have a lot of the cost-effective things that go with it as well. So that's like the next step, is that that's the re-factoring. We're actually taking apart this idea, these domains is what we would call it for the business and then breaking them down into their parts, which then leads to things like microservices and things like being able to scale horizontally and Kubernetes. The benefits of the cloud higher level services. Absolutely. So you shift to the platform, which is cloud, lift and shift or get it over there. And then set it up so it can take advantage and increase the functionality. Is that kind of the difference? And one thing that we're seeing too is that these companies are operating in this hybrid model. So they brought some containers over and then they have legacy like virtual machines that they want to bring over into the cloud, but they're not in a position right now where they can re-fact or even- In position. It's not even on the table yet. So that's where we're also seeing opportunities where we can identify ways that we can actually lift and shift that VM closer at least to the containers. And that's where a lot of my conversations as a cloud success architect are of how do we re-factor, but also re-platform in the most strategic manner. So can they are a good fit for these kinds of opportunities? Yes, 100%. So it actually asks you, like it starts certain phases like assessment phase and it takes you, asks you a bunch of questions about your infrastructure, applications and everything to gauge and then provide you with the right strategy. It's not like one strategy. So it will provide you with the right strategy either re-platform, re-factor or like what is best? Irritator, re-host, whatever, but re-platform and re-factor are the most that we are focused on right now. Hopefully that we might expand, but I'm not sure. So. You just brought up a really good point and I was curious about this too because Chris, for you mentioned, you're working with largely Fortune 50 companies, so some of the largest companies on Earth. We're not talking about, we're not talking about scale. We are talking about extraordinarily large scale. Thousands, thousands of applications. And I'm thinking a lot, I'm just sitting here listening to you thinking about the complexity. The complexity of each one of these situations and I'm sure you've seen some of it before, you've been doing this for a while, but and you're mentioning that conveyor has different sorts of strategies. What's the flow like for that? How are you, I mean just that even thinking about it feels complex for me sitting here right now. Yeah, typically when we're doing a large scale migration that lasts, you know, for like a year or two sometimes with these Fortune 50 companies. I don't think it needs to, some of this legacy stuff has got to be. This is usually when they're already at the point where they're ready to move and we're just there to tell them how to move it at that point. So you're right, there's years that have been going on to get to the point that we even, I'm involved. But from an assessment standpoint, we spend months just looking at applications and assessing them using tools like conveyor to just figure out, okay, are you ready to go? Or do you have the green light or do we have to pull the brakes? And you're right, so much goes into that and it's all strategic. So like I said about a quarter or a third of our time we're not even actually moving applications, we're assessing the applications and coming up with the strategy. There's so many pieces to this puzzle. Absolutely. And I bet there's some even hidden in the corners under the couch that people forgot were even there. We learn new things every time too. Every migration we learn new patterns and new difficulties which is what's great about the community aspect because we take those and then we add them into the community, into conveyor and then we can build off of that. So it's like you're sharing when we're doing those migrations when companies are using conveyor and sharing that knowledge, we're building off what other people have done. We're expanding that. So there's a real advantage to using a tool like conveyor when it comes to previous experiences. Yeah, are you, tell me about some of the trends that you're seeing across the board with the folks that you're helping. Yeah, so trends-wise, like I said, I feel like the lowering fruit has been already done in the last 10 years. We're seeing very critical, like mission critical applications that are typically 10, 20 years old that need to get into the cloud because they're the term data gravity so it's preventing them from moving into the cloud and it's usually a large older, what we call monolithic application that's preventing them from moving and trying to identify the ways that we can take that apart and strategically move it into the cloud and when we were, we had a customer survey that went out to a few hundred different people that were using conveyor and the feedback we got was about 50% of them are in currently migrating, have large migrations going on like this and then another 30, 40% have that targeted for the next two years. So most of industry is happening now. This isn't a problem that we're trying to future-proof, it is happening now for most corporations. They are focused on finding ways to be cost optimized and especially in the way our market's working in this post-COVID world, it's more critical than ever and a lot of people are pouring, even though they're cutting back expenses, they're still putting focus into their IT for these types of migrations. What's the persona of people that you're trying to talk to about conveyor? Who's out there? I mean the project- What's the community like? What's the community makeup and who, why should someone join the team? Why should someone come in and work on the project? So someone who is interested or trying to start their journey or someone who is already going through a journey and someone who has went through the journey, they have the most experience of what went wrong and where it could be improved. So we cater to everyone out there pretty much because some point of the time, right now it's cloud-native, right now this is the ecosystem, in five years it would be totally different thing. So the mission of the project's going to be similar. Or like probably same, help someone repad form and rehost things into the next generation of whatever that's going to come. So we need everyone, so that is the focus area or like the targeted audience. Right now we have interest from people who are actually actively ongoing the migration and like the challenges that they are facing right now. So we- So legacy enterprises that are up and running, full workloads, multiple productions, hundreds and hundreds of apps, whose bosses said, we're going to the cloud. Yeah. And they go, oh boy, oh boy. Yesterday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, let's start looking, let's, how do we do this? Lift and shift, get re-platform. Yeah. There's a playbook. There's a method. You lift and shift, you get it in there, get the core competency, use the manager, is re-stitch it together, go cloud-native. So this is the cloud-native roadmap. Yeah, and the beauty of Convair is that it also gives you like plans. So like once it assists and analyzed, it comes up with plans and reports so that you can actually take it to your management and say like, oh, let's just target these many applications, X number of applications in like two weeks. Now let's just do it in waves. So that is some feature that we are looking forward to in Convair 3, which is going to be released in the first quarter of 2023. So it's exciting, right? It is exciting, and it makes a lot of sense. It makes everyone happy. It makes the engineers happy, don't have to be overworked. It also like makes the architects like Chris happy, and it also makes the... Pretty much so. As exemplified right here, yes, love that. It makes the management happy because they see that there is like progress going on and they can like ramp it up, wrap it down, holiday season. Do not touch prediction, right? Do not touch prediction. You hear that, managers do not touch production. Yeah, yeah. It's also friendships too, because people want to be in a tribe that's experiencing the same things over and over again. I think that is really the camaraderie and the community data sharing. That's beauty of community, right? Like you can be on any number of teams, but you're on the same team. Like any number of companies, but on the same team, like it was also like reflected in the keynotes. I think yesterday someone mentioned it. Sorry, I cannot recall the name of who mentioned it, but it's like different companies, same team. Similar goal, we all go through the journey together. Water level rises together too. We learn from each other, and that's what community is really all about. You can tell folks at home might not be able to feel it, but I can. You can tell how community-first you both are. Last question for you before we wrap up. Is there anything that you wish the world knew about Conveyor that they don't know right now, or more people knew? And if not, remember our marketing team is nailing it, and we'll just give them a high five. I think it goes to just what we're talking about. It's not just a tool for individual applications and how to move it. It's how do we see things from a bigger picture? Yes. And this is what this tool ultimately is also trying to solve, is how do we work together to move hundreds, if not thousands of applications? Because it takes a village, and that's my biggest advice to people who are considering this, who are in large enterprise, or even smaller enterprise. Make sure that you understand this is a team effort. Make sure you're communicating, and lessons learned on one team is going to be lessons learned for another team. So share that information. When you're doing migrations, make sure that all that knowledge is spread, because you're just going to end up repeating the same mistakes over and over again. That is a beautiful way to close the show. Savita, Christopher, thank you so much for being with us. John, always a pleasure. And thank you for tuning into theCUBE live from Detroit. We'll be back with our next interview in just a few.