 APC Congress is to hold despite opposition from factions says Governor Abdelahi Ganduja of Kainu State and the Nigerian military says Abu Masab Al Balnawi, leader of Islamic State Group Aiswa, is dead. This is PlusPolitik and I am Mary Annicole. APC State Congresses will take place all over Nigeria soon. In fact, tomorrow despite the conflicts within the party, Governor Abdelahi Ganduja of Kainu State has stated that the venture would hold as scheduled, notwithstanding a protest by the joint stakeholders forum led by Senators Ibrahim Shekarao and Barao Jibril, along with four other members of the House of Representatives from his state. In readiness for the venture, a former Baudenuse State Governor Ali Maudou Sherif, who is aspiring for the national chairmanship of the party, has enjoined members to go out in their numbers to elect leaders of their choice in Saturday State Congresses. We're joining us to analyze that is Baudenuse Show Me and Baba Shala Adib. We both are political analysts. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Good evening. Good evening to you. I'm going to start with you Mr Show Me. It's interesting, the first questionable thing about the Congresses in itself is that there's been a committee that's been inaugurated by the APC at the national level. No chairman have been named in this committees that have been inaugurated. Even other members for various states have not been named. So everybody's wondering who are these people? How do we know who they are going forward? And Congresses are just by the conducts tomorrow. Well, it's very important for the APC to have the State Congress. One of the major problems they have, initially when they were choosing delegates, is the fact that they had parallel Congresses earlier in some states. And then they went to mutual suspicion. One faction suspecting the other faction. Both factions are justling to reposition themselves in order that they can have an advantage over the other. So part of the strategy of managing, in my view, managing the crisis within the APC currently, is to ensure that the list of all those conducts, the Congresses, are actually kept secret to avoid mutual suspicion or accusation against the officials so that they don't end up finding themselves in another constitutional situation. But that much said, it only tells a lot about the internal party democracy. You would expect that a ruling party like APC would be able to have its own Congresses freely without all these cat and mouse games going on in the country. It underlines the desperation for power by different actors in the political part. So, therefore, whichever way it is, the Congresses must hold, INEC must observe them, and then the leadership of the parties must emerge. Okay. James Acquanudair, the spokesperson of the party, was quoted to say that the party expected bickering to be nipped in the bud and that the party would move towards the 2023 elections as a unit. Now, they're saying that as a result of this committee that has been inaugurated, they're hoping that all the bickering and the infighting would be nipped in the bud. And they're saying that that's why, in his words, these people who have been nominated or rather elected to be part of the committee have been fully picked based on their record, which they feel is qualified enough for them to be able to fill those seats. But then, if we look closer at what's happening across the country within the parties, can we really say that these committees, don't forget, my opening question was the fact that nobody knows the names of the people who are on these committees. How do we put an end to the bickering if issues like these are still teething and they're stemming from the national? Well, from the past, it hasn't been the case of after the Convention of the Congress, another committee will be set up for the Constellation purpose. So that means there is no, there is not in the political party or any political party we do to satisfy everybody. We need to remember that the Convention of the Congress is the beginning of electionary process against 2022. So everyone will have aspiration for any position. We definitely look out for the person who to support, who he or she believe will cover his own interest. So as a result, there will always be conflict. And regardless of what the committee, the Board of Trustees or whosoever that is in charge of the Congress and the Convention, there is always the issue. However, the Congress will be coming up tomorrow across all the states, all the 36 states. Up to yesterday night, even up to this afternoon, which I'm not even sure how, committee for each state has not been announced. And if committee has not been announced, is that a sign of failure or there is a plan going home on how to maneuver the Congress so that it will suit a particular candidate or the order? So for now, I believe APC, I expected APC to have gone beyond this level. But it has already shown the way they are within the country is also the way they are also partly their own political party. Back to you, Mr. Shoumi. We see that in Canu, and especially in my opening, I did mention that Dogwa is kicking against Shakao and has declared loyalty to Governor Ganduje. We also have seen that they seem to be going for a consensus candidate in Canu state for their Congresses. And they say that they're returning former party executives unopposed. And so I'm wondering, how does this address internal party democracy? Because the APC seems to want to pride itself as the party to belong even though we see a lot more people going to the APC. But of course, if we look closely through a microscope, we can see that maybe some of the reasons why, or majority of the reasons why these people are moving from their parties to the APC is because of similar problems. So where is the internal democracy in the APC? Yeah, when you talk about internal party democracy, there are other ways of determining that. One is the level of involvement of stakeholders in the party, particularly the membership of the party. Are they allowed to exercise their rights? Are they given opportunity to do so in terms of selecting their leaders? The other angle to it is the Chinese model of it, where you do a form of selection and then you ask for delegate gratification of those ones. So which I think is what Ganduji is talking about, that okay, look, we're going to have to return all the people in order to manage the crisis. And then ask delegates to ratify. So that is what Ganduji is trying to do in Kano. So in terms of APC, whether they're doing selection process or they're doing application or consensus system, that is not against party democracy, as long as that is what the members of the party works. If that is not what they want, then that will be strictly against internal party democracy within the APC. But there is nothing to suggest currently that members of the party are not embracing that should anybody kick against it, and the other will be open to question the legitimacy of it. Because otherwise it will be a solution imposed by the leadership in Kano. Vawashala, the candidates in the APC in Adol State has called on the Malaybuni leadership of the party at the National to stop the state from imminent, in his words, imminent political annihilation, saying that another crisis seems to be brewing within the party based on reported plans to impose state executives in tomorrow's Congress. Now, this is same for river states. Remember what happened the last time that state congresses took place? We saw parallel congresses in river states and the Minister for Transportation's faction versus the faction of the former Senator Magnus Abbey. And this is what the APC candidate in Adol State is asking the national leader to deal with. So again, how do these kinds of problems or how will these kinds of problems be dealt with before tomorrow? Because we're less than 24 hours to tomorrow. Can any magic wand be tossed or somewhat, can something be done to deal with this issue before tomorrow? Because I'm wondering how that will be an exercise that will favour everyone if this is what some people are suggesting? Like I mentioned earlier, there is no way the political party can satisfy every candidate. However, if there is going to be anything that will happen between tomorrow and then that must be a negotiation between all the people just live for positions in other words, there must have been an agreement among all of them. The faction A faction, B faction, C faction depending on the number of factions in that political party. That is the only way that can work and they all agree on who to be the shareman for one faction, who to be the vice shareman, who to be secretary across all the factions and once you are able to do that and everybody agrees to that, there will be peace. But if that has not been done between now and before now, I doubt if that will be done by tomorrow except there is a magic that they are going to perform and only magic I can see they can perform is to assure the other party of a political what's called the tickets in the next election. Let me mention that everyone is now preparing for 2023. So everyone is now looking for opportunity to grab his own ticket against 2023 without any barrier from anybody in the state executive and that is why all these issues are coming up now. I'm wondering if we see that this negotiations don't take place that you're hoping would take place between tonight and tomorrow. Do we see a mass movement from the APC to maybe any other party after this congresses? Let's not forget yesterday we heard that there was a merger of sorts with smaller parties and this was spearheaded by Kingsley Mogalu. Don't forget we also have the third force who we still do not know what they're about and if they're going to become a political party but do we see mass movements again as a result of tomorrow's congresses? It is not impossible mass movement it depends on who is moving out of APC if the person is a very strong political person in a politician in APC and has a lot of followers then that would be mass movement but if a someone who is not as strong and is because of his belief of being cheated and is moving out of APC might not even feel that he's present. So it depends on the strength of that party of that person. However, moving to a political party is just an assurance being given to him in that other party of being recognized because something I've realized about most politicians is number one the Sikh power, fame and recognition and once they're able to get any or all of this through in any of the political parties then they are fine with it. So if I go to any mass movement maybe to APC sorry, maybe to PDP maybe to another party it all depends on the other party that is welcoming them that is ready to compromise its own structure to welcome them. Mr. Shobomi, before I ask the question that I intended to ask originally I'm trying to understand how political parties work in Nigeria they make promises to not be like the opposition when they are rather when they are the opposition is in power they make promises that they will not make the same mistakes that the opposition which PDP now is the opposition but then of course when the APC started off they did promise that the internal democracies and the politics within the party would be way better for those who came onto their side of the divide but we seem to see a lot of similarities between the two major political parties and it makes me really wonder why they keep criss-crossing party A to party B you said the nature of political parties is not only Nigeria they make promises which the electorates are expected to hold them onto but in many cases you see politicians raking those promises those promises are not necessarily cast in iron stone there is nothing theological about they are just talking about possibilities of what they think they would do and then if they fail to do that it's up to the electorate to choose what to do at the next election but more in Nigeria it is more common that many politicians tend to totally abandon what they think their party stands for this is simply because we do not have ideological parties in Nigeria so therefore many of the promises are just what's about there is no ideological underpinning there is no commitment to it and eventually what you see is they easily teach decisions without showing any form of remorse and they think it's okay you just go to the next election again you promise whether you are in opposition or you are the ruling party the approach has always been the same because all the political parties in Nigeria are not ideologically created this is the major problem which we have whereas it is less in countries where you have ideological political parties let's come to Lagos in September of 2021 earlier this year when they had congresses there were parallel congresses here in Lagos just like we had in River State now as the party gears up for tomorrow there have also been speculations that there might still be parallel congresses because the infightings within the party here in Lagos State has not been addressed but all those the infighting that we are seeing especially here in Lagos State what does the future hold the south west is really angling for a ticket is this going to in any way affect that agitation well in terms of Lagos what you see going on in Lagos actually played out at the last election if you remember they had parallel congresses and the so-called talk of factualization but eventually it was the faction led by Trudeba Lagoon by Itinumu faction that the national leadership in the door recognized so it's not something new it has happened in Lagos before it will happen again in Lagos you have the same situation in Lagos at the last election but the reverse was the case was actually recognized not even the ruling party in the state's faction so all these things at the end of tomorrow we are likely going to see people kicking saying no we don't agree with the outcome because they ban it and all that that's not unusual for politicians they don't easily agree on a compromise and they don't easily agree on the choice of a particular candidate who has their own peculiar interests to know and claim in every election a selection of candidates to rule the party so this is the problem we are likely going to see people kicking against the outcome in Lagos possibly a virtue finally Babashala should the avid Nigerian be looking elsewhere I mean and this is time to the question I asked earlier on before my last question if the two big wigs two major political parties seem to be you know churning out the same same thing year in year out and we haven't seen any changes we haven't also felt a change of sorts in the way things have been done should Nigerians be looking elsewhere don't forget professor Tahiru Jega former INEC boss had come out to say that Nigerians need to look away and look beyond the APC and the PDP for them to get the kind of Nigeria that they're looking for is it not a tad bit too late for us to be doing or is this the best time to do so it is not late it's still the right time because Nigerians still have about 18 months before election so I believe looking elsewhere might not even solve the problem it's not about the parties it's about the individual just like to make mention of the other time I can promise you everything because I believe that is what I want to hear for you to vote for me so what Nigerians need to look for is to look out for the integrity of the people who are just in for one position or the other against next election and vote for that person it should not be about popularity it should not be about the wealth of that person it's not about the influence of that person that person can deliver in order to move this country forward so it is not about looking elsewhere it's about looking for the right candidates that fit that position that they are expecting them to occupy in the next election either a PCPDP a DCYPDP it depends on the individual being elected to occupy that position and not the party integrity is key and finally just to add to what he said can we find the integrity he is making reference to can we find the individuals that he is referring to in any other political party or are these the same kinds of people who are running in the circles of all the political parties that we have in the country and let's not forget that these individuals are from us they are Nigerians, they are not from Mars neither are they from Ethiopia they are from Nigeria so really could this also be a reflection of who we are as people or maybe these politicians are caught from another cloth well there are obviously many Nigerians who are credible who can still provide the necessary leadership in the country the problem is this will they be able to have access to power, that is the major problem because those who pay the pipe are the case to tune and many credible Nigerians are not disparaged and therefore that creates another major headache you can have candidates with integrity in PDP, in APC, in all the political parties but how would you be able to ensure that they attain the position of leadership this is one of the reasons why he is agree those who are suggesting that leadership alone is a problem leadership alone is not a problem the structure is also the problem because when you create a situation where you need millions you must be a billionaire to be able to form a political party then you've already created a barrier towards integrity having candidates to integrity with honor to attain position of leadership because nobody will form a political party with billions and then hand it over to someone else that is the problem which I think would be in the country I want to say thank you both are political analysts thank you for being part of this conversation watch out and see what plays out tomorrow thank you thank you very much for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return Abu Musab Al Balnawi leader of the Islamic State Group Icewap is dead, we'll be back shortly