 Everybody from Taiwan. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited to have you because this is Inspire High's first truly global session inviting people from all over the world. And this is the first time we're attempting this in English. So it's my first time. So I may stumble. I may mumble. But I will not crumble. So please be excited for today's session. Please send your comments in from the comments section. I'll try to pick up as many as possible. And I hope you are as excited as I am for today's session inviting Mr. Audrey, Ms. Audrey Tang. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu. Hi. Inspire High. Minasan tanoshimu kotsu desu ga. Kometorankaro no sanka zeki onegaishimasu. Sude ni ne minasan takusan no kometo itadaite masu ne. Boku no ho no temoto demo koete mite masu. I'm also checking the comments from where I am at through my phone. So please send in your comments. And I'll try to pick up as many as I can. There's so many people today that it's very difficult for me to follow everything, but I will try my best. Sore dewa minasan. Let's start the session. Let's invite Audrey and let's get rolling. Hi, Audrey. Odori san. Konnichiwa. Hi, Audrey. How are you today? Hello. How's everyone? Good local time, everyone. Live long and prosper, everyone. Live long and prosper. So Audrey, where are you today? Can you hear me? Sure. I'm not only hearing you, I'm also hearing you as of about 10 seconds ago. So I'm now hearing two versions of you, just like in the movie Tenet. I'm in the administration office. I'm also hearing my own voice as I answer your first question. So it seems that we're having a lot of feedback, but from ourselves. And this is how my office looks like. It has a recording of our conversation has a very large whiteboard, a wall that we use to project ideas. That's a projector and some sofa as well. Awesome. So is that where you usually work from? So it is where I perform this kind of online interactions. It's my studio. My actual workplace is rather mostly in the social innovation lab, which is not a studio, but rather a park that everybody and their dog and their self-driving vehicles can visit me. Whoa. That's really cool. So how much of your time do you spend in that innovation lab? Every Wednesday from 10 a.m. to the late evening, I'm there and everybody can talk to me. And I'm also there every other Tuesday or Friday too when I tour around Taiwan and use this kind of video conference to work with people. Mm hmm. Wow. Has the the touring portion become difficult because of the COVID? In Taiwan, we never had a lockdown. So the touring while, of course, we all have to wear the medical masks that we ration out. But if we keep the mask on, if three quarter of people wear it, the R value is always under one. So it's all working pretty well. It never stopped. Awesome. So before I go into the topic of today's conversation, I just want to encourage both of us to have a look at the comments. So we got a lot of people joining from all over Japan as well as Taiwan and I'm sure around the world today. And we got some comments coming in. Mona sound Audrey, your English is so beautiful. Nikita sound surprised that Taiwan didn't have a lockdown. We have a lot of questions already coming in. And out on a sound is has a comment to your innovation lab. Well, that's so cool. It's literally a park. Adi sound asking you to invite people to Taiwan. So we have a lot of comments. So everybody who's on the other side watching the session today, I encourage you to ask as many questions as you would like. And I'm going to try my best to pick them up. So please, we encourage your participation and thanks for joining us today. So we touched slightly on the subject of the masks. And I was supposed to ask a quiz at the very beginning of this session today, but I completely forgot and went straight into the session. So I just want to speak a little bit about the mask map, which you created. So in Japan, there's a lot of reporting that says that it took three days for the system to be created and then for you to deploy the data and so on and so forth and for it to spread. But can you tell us a little bit about what the mask map was and is and the process in which it came into being? Sure. The mask map, which is a map that we use to ration is created by the civil society people, such as the gov zero initiative and so on. And these are important because in the beginning of the pandemic, we have very limited production probabilities of people getting a mask on the free market as low because at the time we only produce two million medical masks a day in the country of 23 million people. Of course, we will ramp up it to more than 20 million a day in the following months, I think by April or May. But in the first three months, there was a real shortage for the medical masks. Because of that, we devised a system where everybody can use their national health insurance card that covers more than 99.99% of all the citizen and residents too. And they can go to their nearby pharmacies where the pharmacists are professional and trusted by the community to get initially only two medical masks per week. And next three medical masks per week. And now nine medical masks per two weeks. Or if you are a child, then 10 per two week. This is important because the affordability and accessibility is more important than the number of masks you have. You can use for example, a traditional rice cooker to clean the mask for reuse for a couple days in the very beginning. But if only a small fraction of people have access to mask, then the virus will spread in the community. So people helped instead of having to queue very long lines, you can see in real time where the pharmacies are. And if they are in green, it means they still have available stock. If they are in red, it means that it runs out of stock, you don't have to try arrow. And then it shows the number in real time so that when the people queuing before you make a purchase, you can see the number go down just a minute by refreshing this map. And this map is created more than 100 of them created by the citizens. We just make sure that they have the real time number so everybody can hold this system to account. Yeah, we got a lot of comments coming in. Masaki-san, that is a great system. Tamachan, that's so great. Yeah, we have a lot of people who are, I guess, astonished at the way that Taiwan has responded to this. And I am aware that that has led to global coverage over the way that Taiwan has in no sense contained the COVID pandemic in the mask map being really extremely effective in realizing that. A lot of people are extremely, they're mind blown by the speed at which it happened. And we have a lot of comments with three days with a huge exclamation mark coming afterwards. And I think what's really fascinating here is that it's a collaboration of a team of civic, of, I guess, hackers who initially created the mask and then a collaboration with the government, which further enhanced the credibility and trustability and usability of that. And do you think this is something that's unique to Taiwan, this level of collaboration between the people and the government? It's always like that for each major disaster. And Japan is not strange to that idea, too. I mean, the application called line was invented because of the large earthquake and people need a way to keep communication open, even if they run out of electricity, for example, they still can use the battery in their phone to send short messages to each other. So I'm sure with the typhoons and earthquake, Japanese people can understand how important it is for all the different sectors to come together. Just today, we have the anniversary of the major earthquake back in 99. It's called September 21. And this is our national disaster prevention day. On 9am and 21 minutes afterward, like 921, 921, everybody's phone received this SMS that is a drill that reminds people to work together to work with the earthquake disaster prevention and timely response. So this is in our culture, and especially amplified around the turn of the century. Well, thank you. So I want to pivot a little bit towards asking about your history, your personal history, and about your upbringing and your life. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask the staff to bring up a little screen, which describes your upbringing screen in the top of the whole that state that you must go. Thank you so much. So I'm going to read this out for everybody. So at the age of eight, you started learning coding. At the age of 14, you drop out from middle school. At the age of 19, you start a software company in Silicon Valley. The age of 24, you come out about your gender identity and you change your name. And at 33, you announce the end of your business career and become an IT minister. Is this accurate? Is there anything that's wrong here? I just want to make sure that we're not sending for false information out into the world. Well, except that I'm not a IT minister, I mean, you're a digital minister. IT, while being the enabling technology of digital, is actually different concepts. Digital is about the society, people to people relationship. IT is about the machine to machine relationships. And that it is fine. I'm also happy that we fix the feedback problem on our side. So this is good now. Good, I'm glad I'm sorry about that. Yeah, you're right. So I think what's fascinating there is that the central component when you say digital is the people whereas the central component when you say IT is just the machine. So we have a lot of people sending in a lot of comments. But it seems that the biggest point of fascination for everybody here is how you started programming at the age of eight or you started studying programming at the age of eight. Can you tell us a little bit about what prompted you to do that? Sure, I had a few family relatives, a couple uncles who already work respectively in the Acer, which is a large computer company at a time still quite large now. And also one work at an information industry institute. So it's natural that they would have the programming language books in the bookshelf. So I just read those books because I was very into mathematics, but I don't like calculation at all. So I found out Oh, there is this computing machine that can handle all the calculation for me so I can focus on the concepts of mathematics instead of math calculations. So the programming on a piece of paper using pencil to draw the keyboard and then write the prompt and type on the paper like CLS enter and then use a eraser to erase the paper screen. And after a few weeks, my parents bought me a personal computer. Wow, so it must have accelerated from there when your parents bought you the computer. What were the first things that you were programming? I wrote, I think, print double quote, hello world double quote. Okay, wow. So you remember your very first piece of code. So before we step into the other parts of your of your life, I kind of want to ask a question for all the Japanese people here who are here today. There's a lot of culture exchange between Japan and Taiwan. And I was wondering, was there any like anime or any kind of culture that came from Japan that you were fascinated by or that you followed when you grew up? Well, certainly, I read the original manga series of Ghost in the Shell. Ghost in the Shell. Yeah, which is more like a illustrated textbook. Okay. But later on, of course, I would also watch the TV series. Also the movie adaptation. And of course, it's Hollywood derivative called the Matrix. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. So the original story of the Matrix is Japanese? Yes, of course. And I think the Wiskowski directors openly admits that is inspired heavily by Ghost in the Shell. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. So we have some questions coming in. Oh, how about this one? So we have a comment from Saito-san, have you ever heard of that? Oh, that's the one, isn't it? Ghost in the Shell. That must be what it's called in Japanese. Wow, okay. Yeah, in Mandarin, it's called gonghe jidon de, but we are talking about the same thing. Okay, okay. Really cool. Right. So we share a lot of cultural background as well. I just wanted to kind of touch on that because I think that's something that a lot of people in Japan don't really know about Taiwan and how we actually share a lot of cultural background. So I'm really happy that we were able to speak of that. We got a lot of comments coming in. Alright, so my next question for you is when you were 14 and you decided to drop out of middle school, can you tell us a little bit about that experience and the challenges you may have faced during that period of your life? Yeah, I imagined that I will have to go to a senior high and then go to a college and maybe get a doctorate to work with the leading researchers, for example, on artificial intelligence. And nowadays, we will call it natural language processing, which is a science fair project at a time. So I like a lot of the professor's work. But my teachers tell me I have to spend 10 years to complete my studies before I can work with these people that I admire. But then I discovered there is a online website called ARXIV or archive run by the Cornell University. It's still and so on the archive with an X network, I see that all the leading researchers at the time were publishing their latest papers even before those paper go to their journals. And that means that it's literally their latest research. What's even more amazing is that when I send them email showing them what I have thought about their paper, they actually responded. Wow, over the internet, they didn't know I was just 15 years old anyway. Before long, we started working together. Of course, I doing was doing quite minor parts, but still it's something right. So I tell my principal that I don't have to wait for 10 years to participate in the creation of new knowledge. So right now, with this very new invention called a World Wide Web, and she read the printout of email and web pages, sort for a minute, and say, oh, tomorrow you don't have to go to the middle school anymore. And I will cover for you, she said, which means that she will fake the records for me, because well, post early education, we're a long past the prosecution. Yes, period now. So I can't this. Right. So you would have been charged if it was maybe a few years ago? That's, that's right. For a public servant, of course, I think it was five years or 10 years. But because I was talking about something that occurred in 1996, that's many, many years ago already. So I think I have a strange case of optimism. I think the public servants are the most innovative people because of that experience. Wow, very interesting. So I imagine if I was to drop out of school at middle school, I would have felt lonely, I would have felt outside of, you know, the general, I guess, majority society and so on and so forth. And I can imagine that I would have had certain challenges. But were these not relevant to you? Not at all, because I just started attending university classes, because I have a research topic in mind. At the time, in addition to natural language processing, I also want to understand why people trust each other online so quickly, much quicker than face to face. Why is that? It's called swift trust. It's a phenomena that all of us have experience. But the psychological and social reason of that is not very clear at that time. It's also one of the research topic I'm interested in. So I also co-founded a few startups to work basically in the field of, for example, C2C auctioning and online like meta search, search engines and so on, just to understand why people behave so differently and how we can make sure people behave in a pro-social manner online. So nowadays, of course, we'll call it a social network or a social media and so on. But these words were not invented back in 96. And so basically, I had a lot of community because it's a common question that's asked by many people around the time, the social entrepreneurs and the industrial people too. So you've embarked on so many different projects starting with, you know, before I'm sure you dropped out of middle school. But when you dropped out of middle school, you already had a research question which you wanted to pursue and understand. And I think there's so much intrinsic motivation in you to address these questions, to allow those questions to emerge from you and so on. And I think more than the many different initiatives you've been a part of, it's this energy which you behold within you, which is extremely powerful and inspiring. Can you tell us a little bit about what it is that moves you forward and what are the things that you are trying to realize or perhaps answer? Yeah, I think there are two main questions that both motivates you and that I seek answer. The first one is, if people have very different positions and backgrounds, how may we arrive to common values? That's question one. The second question is, given the common values that we have, can we innovate something without leaving anyone behind? That's the second question. So a lot of my work is motivated by those two questions, which does not have a standard answer, rather, it needs to be practiced from day to day. And how are these questions relevant to what you're doing today as the digital minister of Taiwan? For example, whenever there is a new technology arriving, people will think of very different uses for self driving vehicles, you can easily think of a thousand different uses. Some of them are for economic prosperity. But then people worry that it will also make a negative impact on the environment. They think it should be used for environmental protection. Then may drive the science forward. But then some people may worry that this will disrupt the social equality to make people who enjoy less opportunity, enjoy even less opportunity, if those self driving vehicles or 5G are only available in the highly developed municipalities and places. So for each emerging technology, there's at least four different positions. If you talk about the sustainable goals globally, there's at least 16 different positions on any technology. And so that's relevant because the 17s goal of the SDGs are the partnership for the common goals. And digital can help make the environmental, social and business impact accountable to each other, translating different realms, business impact, environmental and social impact into measurements that people can relate and interact, such as, for example, any, you know, pollution on the air, it could be measured by people. Any water quality can be collectively measured by people. The ocean, every part of the world can basically be better understood, like the climate and so on, if we join together to find out what happens to these places in which metrics that we care about. But without digital technology, there is no way for us to share and remix from those different data sources. And so the digital is there so we can have a shared reality. That's for question one. For the question two about a common innovation, digital can help to make this innovation replicate in anywhere in the world traveling by the speed of light. The mask map that I show you, which was invented in early February this year, gets running in Korea by March. And I met with video, many people in Korea that brought this innovation there in one short month. Some of them are just 14 or 15 years old. They're very young people. And they don't speak Mandarin. Fijian, the person who wrote the map for Korean people doesn't speak Korean, but they both speak JavaScript. And that's enough. And that innovation can spread very quickly. Thank you so much. There's a lot of things that I do want to ask, being inspired from those, what you just shared with us. But I want to move on to the output time because I want to provide everybody a time to think a little bit as well. And before we go into that, there's going to be a little video. Okay, Audrey. So today's output the theme is creating new landscapes and what we want to inspire to the members that are here today is agency and empowerment. And the three sub questions within this theme is number one, what is one thing around you you want to change? Number two, how do you want to change that one thing? And number three, how do you think you can participate in that change? So how do you think you can create that change? And Audrey, so I want to ask you, how is there anything that you are working on right now that fits within the prompt of today's output? I think you're muted. Yes, you talk about creating a new landscape, but it occurs to me that I'm now occurring to you as well as the map in portrait mode. So if I rotate, it becomes landscape. And so I think what this shows rather is a very simple idea that the web server, the person who code what you see is not the one who has the final say to what you actually receive. There is agency, even in your browser, that you can use to make sure that you do not, for example, get addicted to, for example, the Facebook feed store on my browser, something called a Facebook feed eradicator. It literally takes away the Facebook feed to me and replace it with a famous quote by a scientist or a philosopher. And the part of Facebook that makes people addictive is invisible to me. It's like an advertisement blocker. But then the part of Facebook that are active, for example, dialing to a live stream starting a messenger conversation or visiting a profile or a page, basically anything like I search for a hashtag and participate in conversation, it's intrinsic. But if you keep refreshing the feed, it's extrinsic, it's determined by the algorithm. So by installing an extension to take that away and only keep the intrinsic part, I regain agency in my relationship with Facebook. That is just one example. And you can do so too. Just search Facebook feed eradicator. So there requires the intrinsic motivation to create that change, I'm sure. And the hope today is that this serves as an opportunity to exercise that intrinsic motivation. So for the Japanese users that are here today, I want to show in the display screen what the prompt is today again. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hey. No. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Okay. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. I got to say I was saying, I'm not sure where I was when I started working. I want to ask a little bit about your experience in Taiwan as you saw the change in law around transgender marriages in Taiwan. Can we use that as an example perhaps to think about this this output perhaps? Sure, of course, in Taiwan, just by way of context, last year we made sure that regardless of people's biological sex, they can marry, but there's a important difference in Taiwan before 2007 when two people marry, it could be through a social ceremony where essentially their families marry, it's just they are representatives of their families. But after 2008, it's married by registration only, which means the two individuals wed instead of their families wed. And I think in Japan there's also such a generational difference when it comes to thinking about marriage, whether this is a family-to-family relationship or whether this is the individual-to-individual relationship. In Taiwan, if you are a homosexual couple, when you wed, you only wed as individual. Your families do not form kinship like in-law relationships with one another. It may seem like a small thing, but it's important because we made sure that in Taiwan, when people marry each other, they understand it's their own choice to make. They must be of age of consent instead of in the old days, like young girls who are 16 years old, even if they are not legally an adult, they can get married because their family basically agreed for them to marry. And this is of course not what we are looking for in the new generation. We also proposed a change this year to even for heterosexual marriages to keep like 18 years old, 18 years old, no 16-year-old marriage for girls anymore. And so this is a new direction, a new landscape for thinking about marriage, it's individual not family-to-family relationship only. Yeah, thank you so much. So I think that offers some inspiration for the members today or additional inspiration around thinking about landscapes that you want to change. In this case that would be the system of marrying in Taiwan and having a specific vision on how you would like that to change. And then finally thinking about how you can participate in creating that change. So I'm going to now segue over into showing you all a video which will help you understand how to exactly participate in the outputting. 全部答えられなくて本当にすいません 後半でどしどし聞いていきたいと思いますので まだ聞けてないどうしても聞きたやつがあれば セーブして後で送ってください それでは皆さん アウトプットの時間に入っていきます VTR ご覧ください 今は変えたい社会の風景を見つける 周りを眺めた時に違和感のある風景や 変えていきたい社会のワンシーンを見つけ どんな風に変えたいか考えてみましょう 回答項目は次の通りです 一どんな風景ですか 2 どのように変えたいですか 3 どうしたら実現できると思いますか アウトプット停止画面を下にスクロールすると 投稿例が掲載されているので 参考にしてみてください 時間は15分間 それではアウトプットスタートです 残り時間は10分です 残り時間は5分です 残り時間は3分です 残り時間は1分です まだ完成していないメンバーは 途中経過を投稿しましょう この時間が終わると 投稿できなくなります アウトプットの残り時間は30秒です そろそろセッション動画に戻りましょう OK! So everybody's worked on their outputs, made their submissions and we have a lot of different works and views coming in which we will touch on later so from here we start what is called the feedback time so everybody submitted their work and in Inspire High we really value feedback and so I want to ask you how is feedback important to you in your work you're muted Yes, when we first rationed the masks the system that the civic technologist devised actually hurt some pharmacies because they will collect the IC cards and then slowly swipe them and ask the customer to return in the evening to pick up the medical mask to save time however in our system you will then show that they still have many masks available and gradually declining in number and then people will show up thinking they still have some masks left but actually they're just slowly swiping the IC card on behalf of their customers and so it created a burden for the pharmacist to have to explain and people also sometimes say but this map show you still have some masks are you hiding them and so on creating social tension and so every time everyone called the line 1922 can report this situation to us and every Thursday we make a new version of the system so to display the rationing rules and times for the pharmacy to make the pharmacist a tool where they can click a button and mute themselves from the map they will disappear from the map once their IC card collection is finished for the day and so on so feedback is essential in making sure that technology work for the people instead of asking people to conform to technology feedback is the social innovations most important thing feedback is social innovations most important thing I think a lot of people don't feel that they have agency over technology so I think what you provided there is extremely inspiring for a lot of people who feel like they live in a technology first kind of world so I'm sure in your everyday work you exercise giving feedback all the time do you have any advice on how people should give feedback you just give me that advice and I will repeat and I quote unmute yourself I think that's beautiful unmute yourself do you believe that a lot of people are too muted yes and it's muted by other people because of the recording quality right when I sit here in the chair your studio already muted me as we previously talked about but I was not aware of the fact that I was muted and so the feedback that you give me raised my agency realizing that oh I can unmute myself too I don't have to wait for you to unmute me it's the same for civic participation too many people think they have to be 18 years old 20 years old finish the college or whatever before being a participation force in the citizenry so that we make a distinction between participating citizens and people who merely live here like the very young people or foreign immigrants and so on but I think this is the unuseful not useful distinction to make to me everybody who can unmute themselves through citizens initiatives petitions hashtags instagram challenges these are all the very different ways that you can unmute yourself even if you are not yet 18 years old thank you so much do you have any advice on when unmuting yourself how perhaps to voice your opinions yes wait for a couple seconds uh for the other person to finish what they are talking otherwise there may be interference as we experience in the beginning of this talk and even though it sounds very cool in the movies especially by director Nolan but the other people will feel that oh you're interrupting me without listening what I have to say so practice active listening you can set a time boundary saying I will pay all my attention to you for five minutes and listen to you especially they are a elderly person or a government official like a minister but then the young people can say after you have your five minutes I ask you to also give me five minutes of attention and where I will unmute myself and provide my output and that arrangement this called time boxing is very important and I see it's also what Inspire High is doing so it's an art form to unmute yourself but I it's also equally an art form to know when to mute yourself thank you so much so everybody it's time to provide feedback to the other members work time is 10 minutes all right Audrey so we finished the feedback round we saw a lot of people giving a lot of feedback so much everybody for your participation so from here we're going to be going over the works together with Audrey and Audrey will be providing his feedback towards each one of your work how exciting so here we go let's start with this first piece okay so this is the first one it's in Japanese so I'm going to translate so in Japan there's a lot of shoplifting in the world in Japan it's a problem and in fact they say Japan ranks as number two with the most shoplifting within a year and the person who posted this wants to decrease that for the economic damage that it's causing and the solution that she is offering or the way in which she believes she can participate is by attaching ic tags to the products and putting cameras within the store so that there can be heightened surveillance so Audrey do you have any feedback insights perspectives you would want to share regarding this thank you indeed surveillance is a way to discourage people's behavior if it is purely for economic reasons because surveillance is basically a threat that you will be fined and the expectation of fining will make people less likely to shoplift on the other hand some people shoplift out of necessity or habit that is to say they are in it for the exhalation of it for the for the fun of it basically for feeling that oh I'm shoplifting I'm a delinquent person I'm cool and that's one motivation and that's intrinsic and for that they really have an economic need and of course they're driven by hunger or whatever the hunger part of course with the social safety net it's actually easier to address with community support with no wasted food food banks and so on we can reduce the hunger-based shoplifting but the fun like I'm breaking the law because breaking law is cool that sort of shoplifting actually may heighten because when you put the surveillance camera and so on in it only prompts them to also learn about cybersecurity hacking about even more ways to work around the system and become even more professional criminals and so I'm not saying that it's not useful it may be useful for some cases but it's also useful to also find outlets and to make sure that they become more creative people like whitehead hackers who can also look into a system for its problems to find its vulnerabilities but you reward them for essentially discovering that hey here is a hidden way to shoplift here is a hidden way to get sprick into the password protected e-commerce system you can do so with a bug bunty and many other ways to engage those whitehead hackers or even encourage those out-of-box thinking as part of education once they understand that the society rewards whitehead hacking then blackhead hacking will seem very boring and not that rewarding because they will not be seen as community hero or national heroes thank you so much I think one of the takeaways within that was that it's really important to address the contextual system as well as the I suppose the negative externality of the of the actual act of surveilling and that it may not really resolve the issue if you're simply focused on on the behavior of that one individual in that moment thank you so much we have a lot of comments coming in Sora-san shoplifting is a profession damn yes it does definitely exist in Japan there was a movie called Mambiki Kazuku the shoplifting family that won the Kan movie festival and it portrays a family and poverty who is a professional shoplifter so indeed they do exist okay well I'd like to move on to the next one here we are okay so this one's also in Japanese from Uchi-san so in his or her school there's stairs and for people who are not able to climb those stairs being injured or are on wheelchairs they're not able to access the classroom so she wants to or she or he wants to make it possible for anybody to access those classrooms and the proposition here is to introduce or to act towards introducing elevators in their schools Audrey how is this one yeah in the social innovation lab we not only build a elevator but we also make sure that it can be operated even if you move very slowly that it has voice guidance and that it's moves in a way that allows a wheelchair to easily access it and there's also a kind of skybridge that connects different parts of the social innovation lab and it's built in a very sturdy way so that even people with a heavy wheelchair can feel very comfortable traveling on that skybridge it's very important of course but of course there are also parts of the world like very high mountains where people want to experience but simply impossible for a person in wheelchair to climb for example to the top of Taiwan almost four thousand meters high it's very it's very difficult it's difficult even for able-bodied people and so for these and also for very deep underwater like titanic like ships that people want to tour again very few people in the world are professional divers that can dive to this deep and even if they can each trip may damage the cultural artifact of that ship so what we do is that we built self-driving drones and self-driving robots that goes underwater and goes to the high mountains and relay the information with 360 cameras so that people can put on their virtual reality classes and still interact with those outdoor areas and so this technology has been used in classroom as well I personally taught people in high school and also primary school in a virtual reality space and in there I shrink my avatar to the same height as they are so that we become more like classmates they don't have to literally look up on me and this is also how we can put ourselves into each other's shoes and with 5G technology like with XR space it's a startup in Taiwan you can bring the headset anywhere you don't need a wi-fi or fiber optic anymore you can use the headset to scan your surrounding and immediately bring other people around the world into your virtual classroom but still enjoy your co-presence and this is I think very exciting area where digital can bring more people with different abilities who cannot travel that easily maybe it's all of us when we are 80 or 90 years old it will happen to all of us and that will still enable our social even outdoor participation so that drone example as well as that digital room example I think are great examples of technology digital technology allowing higher accessibility and flexibility for people to share experiences as well as engage in dialogue and in the case of for example the drone going into the higher mountains or other 360 camera devices going into the deep sea that also expands our ability to experience these and there's everybody in the ideal world would have accessibility those things to those things and in the example of the school perhaps one innovative approach would be to go digital and allow everybody to participate inside that space I think that's amazing and there's a very lively discussion which is happening in Japanese on the commons within the app right now around how the difference in budgets among municipalities that allows or disallows this type of innovation to happen as well as allowing or disallowing the implementation of elevators and there was even an example that was being mentioned here around how the elevators are only accessible for teachers so it's very interesting that we have certain like these types of examples or realities as well existing in our world today maybe there's you want to briefly respond to that I would only say that in Taiwan we consider accessibility like broadband accessibility like elevator is a human right so it need to fit everybody's needs actually in our 5G deployment we make sure that the spectrum auction the money that the telecoms bid they have a lot of extra money because we design the auction this way so that we reward them to first put those co-presence technologies to the most rural most remote places that has the least budget for this kind of accessibility either online or offline so that they will not be excluded from the rest of the country but rather can be included through digital opportunity sentence and you are spot on when you say we can be all in the same classroom because we also have a program where a large municipals university student pairs with their companion in remote or rural places and show them essentially the world because they don't lack the broadband what they lack is the understanding of the possibility that the broadband allows them to have thank you so much I want to quickly move on to the next one this is the third piece and it's in English and I will quickly translate for the non-English speakers so let me open this up on my screen real quick so this is a picture of me studying agriculture agriculture income tends to be low even though farms support our foods and I want to develop new product routes and improve productivity number three now I want to develop an application for agriculture how is this one Audrey yeah I think this is great in Taiwan we also face an issue where the younger people are more interested in programming the drones than tending to the land but fortunately the drones can tend the land not only they can help the spraying the seeding the harvesting all sorts of issues but also it makes sure that the young people instead of just doing things like all day long they can spend their time thinking about branding and hashtags and stories to tell and measuring environmental impact and communicating to those social responsibility programs of large corporations and universities while their robots help them to do the farming and I think this is important because the value of the land needs to be experienced by more people in order for more people to cherish the land and so the outreach is I think as important as tending the land if the part of tending the land is repetitive that's where robots can help us but robots cannot actually tell us their life experiences maybe they could yeah about 50 years from now but certainly nowadays we don't have robots that have a life experience as we do and so we need to share our life experiences more so I wish you the best with the app and also make sure that your story is easily spread by other people if it touches people and each person on average share to more than one people then you have a r value of above one it's called viral marketing but your story rather touches a person but that person isn't touched enough because it makes it difficult for them to share for example on social media then your story will then not reach a lot of people then you end up having to do most of the storytelling by yourself and in which case it's like farming without the help of the machines thank you so so much so it's extremely important that you are also being seen and shared and that there are other people who are well I guess this actually relates very much to your the concept of open transparency which you hold very important into your in your activities and being more transparent and sharing with the world is extremely important particularly in this digital age where that is the means of communicating with people beyond your immediate friends and family so yeah this app sounds exciting and this is the end of our feedback session there's so many more ideas that were generated through this output session thank you everybody for your participation so sorry that we're not able to go through each and every one of them the works will continue to exist inside the app so please feel free to go out and check them out after this session is over because I've been looking through them and there's just other really interesting perspectives and really important issues that people are speaking about in this space so we are now entering our final round of questions we have five minutes left that's all and Audrey has to leave so everybody now is your chance please post questions which you may want to have answers to and I'll try my best to pick them up so I want to ask the first question which is around the point which we were discussing earlier around social innovation and your work and you mentioned that there were certain examples that you wanted to speak about which address the second question which you are exploring which is around if my memory is correct around digital technology and then bridging the gaps between issues and I want to hand it over to you yes so when I talk about an app that goes viral I think of yesterday when our president gave the presidential hackathon award to five winning team the one of which is called circuit plus or feng cha in Mandarin literally serving UT and this is a culture in Taiwan where people can freely serve as refuel stations so instead of buying new plastic bottles it shows how many people wow a lot of people now actually that's five thousand people more than yesterday downloaded this app and how many plastic bottles they have reduced simply by looking around in this map and see which refuel stations are nearby and which kind of water they provide so that they can also rate and comment on the quality of the water and just like pokemon go gets the coins by refueling at different water stations and redeem it for the specialty drinks and agricultural products that the partnering tea shops and so on are providing so it's both a way for place making for people to understand their culture around their community but also a way to get people who get into the habit of buying plastic bottle to get into a new game where their bottle to refill is just a part of the game but after they participate in this game for two months their behavior will change and they will no longer buy new plastic bottles and cause more sea waste and rather they will do this in the entire carbon neutral way while getting plenty of water which is important around this time of heat and extreme weather thank you so much so that's a brilliant idea and we have a similar app in japan called my misu so everybody check it out so i have i think which will be the final question which is you inspire a lot of people through your activities and through your way of being and a lot of people here today are asking the question of how can i also be somebody who impacts the world positively and makes positive change and changes the world do you have any words of advice yes so i will quote my favorite poet lana koan who said and i quote ring the bells that still can ring forget your perfect offering there is a crack a crack in everything and that's how the light gets in so make sure that the next time you see a crack in something maybe a chance of sharp lifting instead of doing anything that's for your personal benefit write it up take a photo share it with the hashtag and before long this crack in the society will become a social object that people can gather and talk about and innovate upon common values and so instead of just having one standardized answers as the last century's education system teaches us there will be many different possibilities that's offered by the whole spectrum of the society so don't do it alone do it with the entire society there's no perfect offering thank you so much so we have one final question and two if we have the time so today you were able to communicate with many students today through this space how was that experience well the experience is excellent i feel that we are literally in the same room i can even see the shape of the plant behind you it's beautiful sunlight i think the plant is there to remind us that although they are not speaking in human language humans are here as stewards as caretakers of the planet so all the thing that we're doing is not for our generation it's for future generations and the generations ideas of what's a good world must not be foreclosured foreclosed by our generation's ideas of progress of GDP of linear growth or things like that we need to make sure that this plant or its offspring is enjoying an earth that is better when we lock out of the world than we lock into the world thank you audrey final question can we change the world yes and we are changing the world right now the world is changing because of your participation in this conversation if you understand the idea that we're spreading and spread to at least 1.01 person on average that idea will catch a fire and become the new norm for the society numeric model shows that when three quarter of people in taiwan pull down the mask the virus will be gone and people understood the logic and then understand the epidemiology and did whatever we can to get three quarters of people masked as quick as possible that's why we won against the coronavirus with no lockdowns but for each person it's really literally just washing their hands with soap and putting on mask seems like a small thing but it changes the world if you can understand the science behind it and teach it to at least 1.01 other person thank you so much audrey this has been amazing and i think everybody has been inspired inspired today i hope you have a brilliant rest of the day and thank you so much for joining us thank you live long and prosper bye audrey hi