 Welcome. My name is Jackie Weisrodes and a year ago I started working here as associate professor of Hebrew Bible. And I just before before starting this open conversation I want to just give a little context to how I know Mary's shirts. And I also want to tell you that there will be time at the end for your questions and we will pass the mic around. So know that if there's a question that you're dying to ask and I just don't go there that you will have the chance. I started as a student here at AMBS a long ago in the spring of 1999. And my first on-campus class was none other than Greek one with Mary shirts. And my life was never the same. I came to AMBS not really knowing why I was here just that I wanted to be. And I thought maybe a semester or two of theological reflection would help me help me know what was next in life. Well after a couple of weeks I was hooked and I knew I was here for the long haul. And after several months it was Mary who suggested I major in biblical studies within my MDiv which was something I was already starting to think about. Mary mentored me during and after seminary offering guidance and support when I decided to pursue a PhD and she didn't even hold it against me that I picked Hebrew Bible instead of New Testament. 24 and a half years after that first Greek class I am utterly delighted to be sitting here with Mary. For me it is a holy moment. I am grateful for Mary's teaching her care and mentorship for her amazing sense of humor for her artful and insightful scholarship which is exemplified in this beautiful volume. And I'm utterly delighted to introduce all of you to Dr. Mary Shirts. Let's welcome her. Mary I would love to start by asking you the story of how you came to be at AMBS first as a student and then as a professor. And before I answer that question let me just say it is so wonderful to see all of you here when I look out unto your faces I am a little teary. It is gratifying and know that I love you. I love you all. I came to AMBS because I couldn't make a living as a preschool teacher and I had written a paper in a class at Goshen College on Anna Karina as a Christ figure. I think that was what it was. And I really liked that paper so I thought well maybe seminary. I certainly didn't see myself as a student maybe a B student sort of a middle of the road student but that was okay because it was a graduate school right so low expectations. What was the last part of your question? How did you come to be at AMBS as a student and then a professor? Oh well that's how I came to be as a student because I didn't know what else to do. Quarter century crisis that that would be about right too. I am a professor because Millard Lynn won first of all I didn't see myself taking either Hebrew or Greek I know this terribly disillusioned Jackie. In fact I petitioned to get out of it and the Crickham committee said no I was not old enough to know my mind and basically so I you know I said you have to be 40 to be an adult at AMBS well kind of but then I took it and fell in love with the language. Phyllis Tribble came and talked about Jonah and she did a literary analysis of Jonah so and then I Millard Lynn bless his heart said to me one day in the lounge as I was putting on my boots to catch the Goshen carpool home one snowy afternoon I says Mary have you ever thought about getting going on and getting a PhD and then teaching Bible and up until that moment no that that thought had never crossed my mind and after that moment it just wouldn't leave me alone so I applied for grad school thinking I'd rather fail at this then have to regret not not having tried so I went that was my attitude I'd rather fail than not try and then you came back to AMBS how did that happen well Gail knows this story better than I do probably I said no twice to being on the on the search committees list I don't know Gail maybe had been there a year when you asked me the first time and I thought oh this is way too soon I so I said no and then I said no second year as well thinking I don't know where this is going and then the third year I said okay I'll let my name stand on the on the committee it was a good choice it was a very good choice I don't know anywhere else where I would have actually grown and thrived the way I did here at AMBS there were some hard times goodness knows but the Bible Department was important to my development the emphasis on being text-based was was the ethos of the Bible Department and I learned from that and adopted that and embraced that and that was very important so it was it was the leading of the spirit unknown to me at some points but nevertheless absolutely absolutely could you describe one of the first times you felt a congruence or a fit between your self-identity and the word scholar was there an aha moment for you another way of thinking about this question how did you find your scholarly voice and what advice do you have especially for our first-year students that are starting this week as they think about theirs yeah my piece PEAC that topic was a long time in coming so there was many years even as a faculty person that I wondered about the scholarship part certainly I wasn't becoming or trying to be a big name at the Society of Biblical Literature that was I didn't feel that kind of ambition so what does it mean to be a scholar Hanz DuViet where's Danielle she's still here well Hanz DuViet came because Danielle and I were working on this project for IMS called through the eyes of another and Hanz DuViet talks about the ordinary reader and the professional reader and one of the things that I came to understand through his work was that when we come into seminary as seminary students when we learn the languages or when we learn how to do scholarship how to do write papers how to think critically about texts how to ask critical reading questions is that we move from being ordinary readers to being professional readers so in some ways every seminarian is a scholar you've moved away from what Hanz called generously and with a great deal of appreciation ordinary readers and his his contention was that ordinary readers and professional readers need each other so ordinary readers need the professional readers the pastors the Bible teachers the people who've gone on to seminary or even like my father never went to never went to college but he was such a reader that he probably didn't fit the category of ordinary reader so even intelligent self-educated laypeople can be professional readers in some sense but professional readers need to stay rooted in the reality of ordinary people's experience with the text with the Bible and also ordinary readers need professional readers so it's it's a sort of symbiotic yeah needs to go back and forth there are of course professional scholars who have lost touch with ordinary readers and there are also ordinary readers who scorn professional readers but both both professional readers who lose touch with ordinary readers lose out I think in terms of understanding the text and ordinary readers who scorn professional readers I think the same thing happens they're there there comes a time and a way in which their own readings of the biblical text are marred or hurt or less than they could be by not joining with the joining of professional and ordinary readers is seems to me very important is there a way that that idea that joining of professional ordinary readers informed the work on your commentary are there is there an example or two you could offer us I'm sure now it's a little difficult to separate in my mind the times I was with ordinary readers in congregations certainly other people in classes had a great deal to do with my understanding of Luke but oh we were talking about South Dakota gay and Ed we're talking about South Dakota I went to oh no this is Minnesota I'm sorry South Dakota Mountain Lake and did a week of there were two churches there and I went back and forth between the two churches and did like the program was open for people in both churches but but I went we went we changed our location and we did the Luke's quest stories out there and the passion and the intensity with which these folks saw themselves in Luke's gospel saw themselves as bringing something important vitally important for human life to Jesus and then we're able to walk with the paralytic and the woman who anointed Jesus feet and the centurion and the and the 10 lepers and Zacchaeus and the rich ruler and the thief on the cross so that kind of intensity and passion I think were my motivation for writing the commentary writing and scholarship in general is a is a conversation what is your advice for those starting out in in their scholarly journey for how to decide who to be in conversation with there are so many options right how do you find the work of others scholars or ordinary readers and integrate that into your work and perhaps a related question how do you balance following the promptings of your own creative spirit and relying on sources of other in other sources of information I think it's important to find people who don't agree with you and to read what they have written or what they are saying carefully I think it's important to find people who do agree with you and also read that carefully we don't we don't often come to Rowland Miller used to tell me there's nothing new under the Sun Mary he told other people this too and it's true and it's true in scholarship so humility demands that we be in conversation with others now there's also in my commentary I take a risk with with the two swords passage at the end of the gospel where Jesus says oh I told you to go out without any protection and no money and no bag now now you need to change that you need to buy some go out and buy some swords and they say we have to and he says that's enough and it's a passage that has troubled scholars I mean some scholars have said it's the most difficult passage in the entire Bible I'm not sure that's true but in the commentary I think I come to a really old reading in other words I use literary devices from the first century like hi as them to understand how Luke is guiding us to read that text and I'm also looking at Luke acts in which in which no one in acts takes up swords so no one obeys that now why is that well I think it's because the people in the first three centuries of Christianity it wasn't a nonviolent warrior was not a problem they could understand that and they also understood what Luke was doing with the chiasm in guiding his readers to understand that there is no one in contemporary scholarship who agrees with me who has written that John Howard Yoder made a remark sort of a throw away remark politics of Jesus about the two swords passage being Jesus last temptation H. A. J. Kruger a South African theologian and biblical scholar talks about that that passage as having divine warrior language like stay with me watch with me do not be led into temptation but nobody in the contemporary society society to biblical literature has been saying that so when I when I came to to concluding the commentary say let's say four years ago do I just kind of slip this in under the radar radar or do I make a big deal out of it there's no and I looked hard I was really like it's important to have people who agree with you right no one did so in the end I gained the confidence to actually just put it out there and say well I don't think it's a new reading I think it's one a reading that hasn't been I think it's a reading that became problematic with with Constantine where it it just became a problem to have a Christian warrior who was not going to fight so it's not a new reading in that sense but it's a it's a new reading to our our contemporary society and I don't know Jackie so that that still causes me some gulps but I decided to go for it so and it's been fairly warmly received I must say so now especially I'm on the midnight crowd we'll see what the others say is there a way that this image of nonviolent warrior and this is an off-the-cuff question Mary so let me know what you think is there a way that it can especially speak to peace-minded Christians today or is there a way that it can help us in our perplexing world yeah yeah I I do think so and I think it challenges us as Mennonites too because we have been sort of content not to make waves and the disciple who integrates the divine warrior and the suffering servant and then goes to the cross as Jesus did as a divine warrior who's not violent and a suffering servant who is not passive challenges us as Mennonite peace theologians but also as the as the general more general society I don't know what it means I think it's a kind of lifelong search to try and find ways small ways and large ways of integrating this I'm working on a paper for the rooted and grounded conference about about how you integrate the divine warrior and the suffering survey in a way that addresses the issue of climate change so I'll let you know when that when that comes together which it hasn't yet but you can hear that paper yeah in about six weeks of the rooted and grounded conference here at AMBS you've spoken eloquently about drawing on various scholarly ideas and resources what about practical ways that you collaborated with others colleagues students other folks in the community on the development of your ideas what what was your handbook for getting real world feedback and could this be transferable to seminary students who sometimes it can feel like you're in your little bedroom typing on your computer all by yourself with your ideas how can we how can we draw on community wisdom in our world well collaboration has been the delight of my life I'm and in so many ways with with Institute of Mennonite studies with students and then as a commentator I had the Luke group and I went to acknowledge the members of the Luke group who are here today Rachel Miller Jacobs and Ellie Crider and Barb Nelson-Gingrich and James was a part of that James Nelson-Gingrich was a part of that and so was Alan Crider and Rebecca Slough so and they read like we would meet at Barb and James and have a wonderful meal and they read every every expository note that I that I created for the commentary and they kept me down to earth and they would say Mary I think you're losing your voice here Mary this is academic jargon what do you mean by that so it was it was so much fun and it was so gratifying to have serious responders be a part of that effort so you will see them acknowledged in the in the introduction and I would wish for every scholar to have that kind of honest candid exploratory pushing affirming kind of group it was it was so so wonderful one more commentary question and then I have some more general ones okay if you think about the project as a whole I mean a commentary is a very curious genre of literature and it's a big commitment what were some of the key moments in your journey with the commentary we heard about the kind of the key text that you lifted up what are some what were some of the other key moments in the process and if you think of writing the commentary as mapping Luke what were some of the features what were some of the roads that you that were already made did you follow them or make your own path we've already heard about one of your own paths that you made did the borders of your map expand over time what are some of the as you think over the past years how would you describe your journey with the commentary what looking back at the long view yeah I was asked and I should have said no I should well first of all I should never have been asked and second of all I should have said no and I'm also eternally grateful that neither of those things happened I was Howard Charles had started the Luke commentary and he faced some medical issues had written about 50 pages of it and and just realized that he couldn't go on with that this doctor said you can write a commentary or you or you can live it probably can't do both so he decided to live and then the committee wanted me to take his work and then go on with it in that vein that didn't work very well the the commentary series really needed women authors so I think that was part of the reason I was asked I was way too young it's nothing to do in your first 10 years of service to an institution it's not here is the way I would say it's not compatible with teaching to being a professor on the one hand and working with students over 30 years was absolutely critical to to the work that eventually evolved here so there's a both and in that in terms of time in terms of getting it done in terms of of pleasing Harold press in terms of deadlines it didn't work very well in terms of getting something together that I think is at least the best that I can do it did work it did work and I have so many people to be grateful for in that I think the the main thing that there's a couple of things one is my students over the years helped me see how this how this book fit together we are not really taught very well in Sunday school to read a book of the gospel all at once or in preaching we hear snippets of it sometimes we'll have a more extended thing but but to sit down and read it like a book doesn't happen very often but at the beginning of every Luke X class I had my students do that and their insight and then of course I was doing it along with them so there are in our in the difference that that made in how we understood the gospel of Luke was just astounding and I'll never forget those sessions at the beginning where we I would just say what struck you what what what did you notice different and it was always a heart touching and lively conversation so that sorry evolution oh this thing works together I'm not saying that every biblical book is a literary masterpiece Luke however is and so that was a bit of a to take that on is oh yes this is working as a as a piece of literature this works was I think in in great part a debt that I owe my students the two sorts thing came but that came toward I would say 2010 on which seems like a long time ago in terms of the life of the commentary wasn't was maybe halfway through I don't know well there was a couple of other things one is I went to the Abbey for some sabbaticals in in St. John's in Minnesota and the Benedictus Zechariah song and Mary song and Simeon song all from Luke are part of the daily prayer practice up there and living with those canticles on an everyday basis made made some difference like not I'm not finding ways to articulate that very well right now but as the dailiness of it it was the strength of the language it was the worship that surrounded that and of course I was working on the on the commentary at those times too so and contribution means you know I'm here today and and sort of filled with gratitude toward all the students well there was Grant Grant Miller who's here today I believe is that my eyesight is a little far one one Luke ask class I had my students memorize texts from Luke and acts and Grant memorized the text of Ananias and Sapphire and which we think of as an accusatory text and it's a difficult text and Grant I recited that with tears and I'm saying this partly because you're being here today Grant reminds me but but it's typical of the kind of intensity with with which students approach these texts and made them their own and that making the texts their own was for me such a touchstone in the commentary writing the strength of that the what what brother Luke offers what brother Luke is doing for us the joy the passion the tears the questions the possibilities it's the ever open possibilities of the gospel speaking to us deeply one of my fond memories of being in class with you and I think many here would also remember this where your beautiful opening prayers that you spoke of as a spiritual discipline because you wrote the prayers for that class session for that day and you brought them to us as an offering I would love for you to talk a little bit about that spiritual discipline and the way it sustained you maybe grounded you in your scholarly career it's certainly sustained and grounded your students who maybe came to class with some trepidation about the Greek accusative yes well I came as a young professor at AMBS I thought I should I should have some spiritual disciplines and I was such a failure I tried journaling maybe two days centering prayer my mind went all over the place it never did get centered I don't know nothing really worked but then I but then I came upon written prayers short written prayers I thought oh maybe I could do that one of my models was Peter Marshall the chap this Senate chaplain died in I think late 40s or 50s so I never knew him personally but I read his books book of prayers and sermons and well then Walter Bruyman was another model who came along who's doing some of this and it became it became a spiritual practice that that I found deeply satisfying deeply moving it connected me to God it connected me to my students it connected me to the Bible it connected me to the Midnight Church it connected me to the church worldwide and even to religions other than Christianity prayer is the great common denominator in religious experience I think and I found it to be so so from the pragmatic it was the only spiritualism that I could make work for myself to a lifelong practice that I have treasured thank you so we've talked a lot about the commentary but you worked on other things in your life as a scholar when you think about your whole career up until this point how would you name well you could think of it as your contributions to the scholarly world in the church you could think of it as how would you name the most vital and important conversations you participated in oh that's a good question Jackie well I co-authored a book with Perry it's hard to co-write a book and it's also very exciting so yeah that was life-changing in many ways I the when when Charles Bridges Johns came and Alan Crider was the person who knew her and brought her to campus and I'll always be grateful when she said something about orthopathic and the way she said it was you men are nice or good at orthopraxy like you know how to do the right thing and she said and the Catholics are really good at orthodoxy how to think the really right thing just but you need us Pentecostals so that you know how to feel the right thing and what she meant by that was aligning oneself with the passion of God with the love of God for the world well that clicked with me I thought oh I think that's what's been missing not only in my Mennonite Church background but in biblical studies so I started thinking about that I talked about it with the AMBS faculty I talked about it with Rebecca Slough and then we worked on this artful response we collaborated that with that Jewel was administrating a program what was that called engaging engaging pastors yeah and we did a number of retreats that were a combination of biblical study but also sort of personal reflection and group experience worship Barb was a part of that Rachel was a part of that Rebecca James are all part of that and that sort of led to a confessional Bible study which another guest of ours Ellen Davis brought with her by confessional Bible says she meant studying the Bible as if our lives depended on it and that was another sort of that along with the orthopathy and the artful response coalesced into something called confessional Bible study that really governed the last 10 years of my professorship here at AMBS so many collaborations with so many wonderful people pastors people in the area oh I took I took it on the road to Ontario so it was a fascinating and satisfying kind of work was that the question and I think confessional Bible study is still part of many AMBS courses if and of course you are asked to do an artful response to scripture you know now where that comes from and who inspired us to incorporate that into our pedagogy of interpretation what is next for Mary the scholar well God told me I have this little paper in my pocket that I've carried now when I got done with the commentary I thought oh no what now and I was kind of depressed my my sister says Mary you just walking around the house wondering what to do said yeah I says I don't know what to do my life is over I did that's a little dramatic didn't quite go that far so one day I just I think maybe God wants me to write something yet so in five minutes I had this list an SBL article on the two swords the rooted and grounded paper which consisted first of a proposal which was accepted and now the paper thanks to Jackie and then I think an article for the Mennonite or the under an article for like a popular level article for the Mennonite in Anabaptist world right thank you Rachel and then a more scholarly one trying to figure out some of some of where the two swords argument fits into Mennonite peace theology for either the Mennonite quarterly review or the Conrad Grebel review and then the other thing that people have been encouraging me to do for years is a book a collecting my classroom prayers and I've tentatively titled that deepest blue of world and soul public prayer and private life and Rachel I've been in conversation with Rachel and some others Rachel's encouraging me to make it somewhat when memoirish a memoir would totally intimidate me and I would not do that but to intersperse some memoir writing with the prayers is probably what I'm thinking about doing so yeah that's all my list does this list live in your pocket all the time yes yes it's going back in now it's getting it's getting shabby but she says it's getting shabby I have just so you all know I have two more questions and then I'm going to open it up so get ready with your questions Mary were you the second woman on faculty at AMBS no Gertrude Bertha Gertrude Roten Bertha Harder Gertrude wrote Gail Gail Gerber Coots Mary or your no she was after me were you the fourth possibly that was after June and Marlene were both afterwards could you talk a little about being one of the first women on faculty and how feminist biblical interpretation feminist theology informed your career and your life here yeah I was not the first woman on faculty I was however for 25 years the only completely full-time woman professor at AMBS which was frustrating in many many ways probably wouldn't have projected that happening when I first joined the faculty I thought surely I wouldn't be the only woman who is full-time I was also the only woman on the Bible Department for all those years so do I know how to get along with guys yeah I do and I loved them all and they loved me but it was not always I was always glad when he had when we had a woman biblical department assistant like Sharon Norton because then it wasn't the only woman at the at the meetings there were always feminists who were more radical than I was and there were feminists who were less radical than I was so I fit there in the middle somewhere I think Mennonites in general tend to be on the conservative side now we don't often feel that at AMS we think we're the liberal people in the Mennonite church but when we when we interact with people of other faiths it becomes pretty clear that theologically we're we're on the more conservative half of things we still attend to the Bible for instance and we still believe in a sovereign God so when I was with feminists outside of the Mennonite circles it was clear to me that I was I was meandering somewhere around in that middle I learned lots from from from people on either side of me I learned lots from am I going to be able to remember these people Mary daily and I also learned quite a bit from the evangelical women who were really struggling with issues like women in ministry and a more a view of the Bible that was more that had more to do with what's the words nine fallibility or is it yeah a more literal kind of belief in biblical inerrancy so no I think I learned from both ends of that and and profited our students were some were sometimes more radical than I was but our students were often more conservative than I was so that played out in the classroom and I spent quite a bit of time doing what I would call patient education of of people who were especially I would say in the first ten years that eased up I think considerably later on but we were still having conversations about whether women should be in leadership in the church in those early years so you know not that long ago and and and some age ago too I mean so I'm indebted to feminism there's no question and I'm also well I I had a choice at one point this happened when I was a student here at AMBS some of my friends were leaving the church the church not just the midnight church but the church altogether because it was too patriarchal and while that had some appeal it was also clear to me that what feminism lacked was the ability to deal adequately with sin I couldn't blame everything that we women were doing to each other on patriarchy and I just didn't think that patriarchy was going to be the reason why evil existed now is patriarchy good no I'm not going to say that but I'm also not seeing it as the source of all evil you got me into this jacket now I don't know what to do with it thank you this is my last question and then we'll turn it over to you all what are some of your hopes dreams anticipations for the future of AMBS or the church this will surprise no one here my dream for the seminary and for the church is that the Bible can continue to be a vital part of our life together now I don't mean that the Bible is not subject to criticism and I don't mean that the Bible should be entertained or followed slavishly and I don't mean that we have to tie ourselves up in knots about the authority of scripture what I want is that the Bible continue to be our companion that it continue to be a resource that we reach for in hard times and enjoy us times these are the records of people's relation with God through what two or three thousand years it's dated and it doesn't satisfy all our needs but it's time-honored and can be what a haven in the storm something that we can continue to find life in something in which we can meet each other in I once said to some students the Bible belongs to whoever reads it so coming together with a text has been probably the most important single practice of my life and and the the community Bible is being developed I mean fostered that we had a group at our church so whatever whatever nurtures reading and reading together and reading for reading as if our lives depended on it going back to confessional Bible study will enrich us as seminarians and for the future of the Mennonite Church and the church in the world the world that God loves thank you so much thank you Jackie that's delightful it was so much fun we've got ten minutes left for your questions Mary I was in your first look at Luke at class your first year here as a professor with my last year as a student and one of the things that just stands out to me that appreciated so much was it before that many of the classes that I had taken felt like we were dissecting the text taking apart and you brought this literary narrative analysis that was like showing all the cool ways it all fit together and I just that just made me so happy and so excited and it developed a sense of mystery and awe that this text was so wonderfully made and probably not even intentionally always you know and I thank you for that I thank you for making the Bible an awe some text thank you Janine I don't remember if we were in that same class I think so and another thing that stood out was precisely the way you taught us to attend to the narrative the story in its twists and turns you would come into class with two or three maybe more of perfect questions and I I still marble looking back at that and then you would have these many lectures if there was a point that wasn't vital that we understand and would do that but then another question would follow and you trusted the class so much in the way you handed the questions to us and turned us into the text an incredible gift and it seized it seized our imagination so thank you thank you Dave Mary you talked about many conversations that you had with people and external conversations outside of the text I wondered about conversations that you had with characters in Luke and in specific conversations that you like to comment on that you had characters in Luke or Luke himself yeah oh there are many Zacchaeus would be one but what I'm going to mention today is my favorite for which is the rich ruler the Good Samaritan and Mary and Martha and I think what's going on there is that you have you have two two types of intellectual work and two types of service work and the two types are the kind that try to justify itself and the kind that doesn't try to justify itself so you have the rich ruler who's trying to use intellectual inquiry to justify himself and you have Mary who is not trying to use she's using intellectual inquiry she's sitting at Jesus feet but she's not trying to justify herself and then you have the Good Samaritan who serves without trying to justify himself just because the person in need is there and you have Martha dear Martha one of my favorite people in the entire world but seeking to justify herself with much serving now why are these four my favorite well I struggle there I I do I mean it's a spiral I I think things are going pretty well I'm sort of spiritually on top of things and and then not so much and then I confess I'm trying to justify myself and I give that up it's not going to work and then of course God is gracious and I can be on the side of Mary and the Good Samaritan for a while but it keeps you know it's an ongoing struggle so yeah those four are my dear and constant companions through life I'm curious because you've alluded to this a little bit but you've been part of the bridge folk group and gathering and part of your commentary was written in Abby a Benedictine Abby can you reflect a little bit on how it's kind of ecumenical back and forth between some streets of Catholicism and your own meninitism and anabaptism had shaped your identity as a scholar shaped your commentary and maybe shape your hopes for the church I think I might be trying to get you to tell us I don't know if I can answer that question not Melinda I think what going back and forth and I spent three sabbaticals at the abbey that's a lot and I kept going back there because it kept drawing me the the our the prayers of the hours the monks the conversation at the ecumenical center the woods the lakes I mean Minnesota all kept drawing me I think I'm really glad to have this time to reflect on that Melinda because I don't know that I thought about this before but I think what happened is that I became both less men and I and more men and I I became less men and I in oh there's a lot of different ways to look at all of these issues from the Eucharist to baptism to service to worship and felt so enriched by by that broader experience so grateful for that I also gained confidence in what men and I have to offer the world people at the abbey were interested in what I thought or what men and I thought sometimes I was better at representing us than others but I kept trying and in the end oh there's a reason for this commentary series I think a lot of the writers of the of the different volumes have wondered that but I do believe there is it there's a place for this series there's a place a need for the Anabaptist view do I know how Anabaptist this volume is I that's the struggle I don't know it's me I'm an Anabaptist and I wrote it and in the end that's that's got to be enough but I do believe that there's a place for our voice but I think that going back and forth is what taught me taught me that Mary one of the things that I remember from some class that you taught I don't know which one was an exercise to do a cannon within a cannon yes we're used to say one one week the exercise introduced and the next week we were to show up with the 10 passages that if we had to discard everything else in the Bible those are the 10 we would keep and some people showed up with you know Isaiah Genesis right you weren't thrilled about that but moved on for the sake of time I think so my question I think is related to the question of who are your characters my question is if you had to keep three brickpeas and Luke what is your look within beautiful oh Brent what a lovely question and different calls yeah the two swords certainly I've given my life to that passage so I have to do that one yeah the 10 top texts without which I cannot live I think it was how we and Perry and I started that in our book and then Marlene and I did a forum on it which interesting I think yeah the two service passage oh I think the Magnificat would also have to be in that now one two three yeah I think my my third one would maybe be the anointing woman in chapter three and of course you can't talk about this is what students would when I gave them that that assignment top 10 text they would say the servant on the mount so I'm gonna say the anointing woman but then of course all of Luke's quest stories so that's a way to cheat on the assignment the quest stories would I mean those seven texts are just wonderful and I've used them in so many different ways with so many different people and heard so many stories did you define the quest sure their stories in which someone comes to Jesus with something vital a need vital for human well-being and there's obstacles in the way to the fulfillment of the quest and then the obstacles are overcome or not the first three are at the beginning or in the Galilean ministry so it's the pair the person who is paralyzed and is let down from the roof of the home by four friends the second one is a centurion with the sick servant who says Jesus don't even come to my home I'm not worthy and the third one in that big in that beginning group is the woman who annoys Jesus feet and Simon says if Jesus knew who was touching him he would do something different then there's three as as Jesus comes integer as he ends the Jerusalem journey and comes into Jerusalem those are the ten lepers and Zacchaeus and the rich ruler and then the seventh one is the thief on the cross which is the most poignant of the seven sometimes I've added Mary and Martha to that if I'm working with women just because I think it has some characteristics of them of the quest story the quest story designation is Robert Tannehill's contribution narrative unity of Luke acts which is really a real it's what I used for a textbook for many years and really important in my I should have mentioned that earlier when you're talking about what influenced me there's so many the the metadictus Zacharias song the Lord's Prayer in Luke and its context the last supper of the tenderness of that last meal yeah I think that's what I can do for you Brett I think we are sadly out of time I would invite you to show your appreciation to dr. Mary sure