 HBCU Dodgers Radio Dodgers after dark welcome back to enlightening conversation with young alum life from historically black colleges and universities Another big show for you tonight. We got line brother KD Laurel from A&T Tiff bout to be thrown off the show or is the Morganite? Fred brother Eric and Winston get him in the school. So the first thing we want to turn to is the situation at Fisk with Obviously a sex scandal, but the multi layers that are involved with leadership and Holding people accountable particularly in the realm of sex I Don't even know where to start Tiffany. I'm gonna act like a teacher and start and call on you Only a problem, you know, they do something that hurts the university. Okay, so he did a thing. He got caught But did he use university funds like that's what I think about first like if your personal life is messed up Or it gets messed up or it comes out that it's one thing and people thought it was another It is what it is but like It's complicated. I don't want people to live Like they're one start there did this does this mess up the university. How many people think it does and why He's gone It looks bad. Yeah, and it's just like Where any students or staff involved was he running a prostitute a gay prostitution ring out of fist? I That's our no because You know in the legal profession, that's none of my business, but I just feel like I mean we as we understand that HBCU's leadership is a very much Conservative when they want to be this is all just oh this looks bad and even that guy in the board trustees said that this is his personal life And we don't want to get involved We don't want to comment on that and get involved in that and it's like, okay What they got to do with what's going on at this when it's school starting which I'm gonna do for the fall And I think that also speaks to how in a broader political sense how we view People in the public sector. We still judge them by whether we like them or not and not okay What's your policy? What's your track record? So sorry to that man But that is not changing anytime soon, although I think it's interesting that I mean I don't think it's made it's big of a splash because there's a million and one things going on right now Using a pandemic. So I'm just like in the greater scheme That man want to be on grinder all the best to him That has nothing to do with Laurel Ashton Brooks, so I'm gonna leave that there Eric You will make it faces. Do you do you think that this messes up the institution or is it just messing him up? I? Was making faces because of the shots being fired the shots bring fire with hilarious all factual but still hilarious To echo what's been said prior to like It's respectability politics, you know in the worst form right so like I grew up in the city where You know the first person the first person who made it responsible, but I got my first job was Mary Mary and Mary and I learned very early on in high school that When it comes to people that have certain positions There's two sides you could take you could take it as they're always on they're all they're a public figure They're always working that like everything they think everything they do always matters Or you could take the perspective that I don't care what they do from 5 p.m. To 9 a.m. I care everything that they do from 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. I Tend to lean on the ladder So for me, it's like it messed up the school because I think the school had to make a decision if what he did That actually violated the law right I could be actually There's something like criminal tours this person that he was engaged into whatever act with Then the school had to make a decision They had to have a zero pilot zero tolerance type of viewpoint in this regard But if it was just like oh we found out that he was on blind Leave him alone like it's not impacting the job. He's doing a good job. They should let it alone I think the school was forced to I think the leadership was forced to make a decision because it's a possibility That he did something that was a criminal act whether that dealt with the school directly or not Or is what do you think? That's what I was gonna say. It's funny because I got my first job because of Jack Johnson who is now former PG County executive working for the summer programs But it's funny because I think it all about the legal the reality of the issue I think if it was just a social issue They would be facing a lawsuit of the dead put him on leave just for if someone to come out and say he's on grinder Doing whatever he's doing in his personal life. They really can't do anything with that now again. They can They obviously boards find ways Be it ethically or unethically to get people out of there But I think it's because there's some some pending litigation coming in terms of whatever charges come about from the investigation about him you know physically harming somebody and Faust and prison and those type of things. I think that's where the school kind of has an out to this But I think people are probably more up in arms about him being Doing whatever he was he's alleged allegedly been doing but And from a school's perspective he has Possible charges pending so they you know they kind of to cut bait But Fisk is also a very conservative campus a very conservative school has a very conservative history and It's a small private religiously based school in a sense So I'm sure there are major stakeholders of the University who don't like to look just from moral Perspectives which is probably why even if he's cleared of all these things I don't think he gets his job back for the moral part of this When's the you agree? Yeah, no, I think that uh, you know the question was like how does it affect or does it affect? Absolutely talk about donors to or is this point talk about the conservative nature of the institution being a private institution a faith-based institution I think it absolutely is gonna affect it from nothing else You know donors and funders and the image of the institution itself I think it causes eyebrows to raise you don't ever want anything negatively associated with People who are vested in your institution those who like the alumni people think that it's you know that it matters The image of Fisk and the history of Fisk matters if it tarnishes or or steps in the bounds of any of that stuff It becomes an issue and if it becomes an issue, you've got to do things like people on leave You've got to things like separate the name from the institution for a period or whatever like it forces your hand to that point of Having to say we really need to look at this situation and then it puts you in the news If you search fist University the first 10 news feed things that come up That's it's about that you don't ever want that to be the situation when somebody just puts the name of your school in a Google search engine So that that becomes an issue Katie Yeah, I mean I don't want to repeat anything that anyone said I just hope that The university is acting on behalf of the victim right and so I hope that they're believing in the victim And that's why they asked him to sit down if we know what the reason because you I mean I think we as a community tend to put out public leaders that I And a much higher bar than we probably should because our counterparts don't do that Like if I and and in similar situations our counterparts would just sweep this under the rug and push forward Especially if they know they can get the dude cleared of all charges, right? So it's um You know, it's this I don't even think it's a double-edged sword. It's just so much It's just a lot that we don't know and I'm just going to take caution and believe in the victim first And then allowing him to clean it up. Although. I know you innocent until proven guilty in this case Because of the nature of the scandal um You just gotta You just got to listen to all sides and we probably won't ever hear from the victim directly. That's the thing So like the university is doing what they have to do to protect like I said the donors and The board and the institution and the reputation and all that so it just is what it is Uh, it's unfortunate, but what else can you do? It's interesting because I think that we learned a couple of lessons from the jackson state situation Because it wasn't so long after that broke that william bindham was saying You guys terminated me Unfairly um You know, and then there were some definitions about what does for cause mean um, there were some definitions about should he be retained as A tenured faculty member, which is a typical Um element of most presidential contracts. Okay, so you caught me with a prostitute. All right Are you saying that I can't I can't have tenure Because that's two separate things like you can fire me as president You can't fire me as a tenured faculty member. That's that's something else Um, which is granted to me as a result of me leaving the institution under any circumstances whether I fired or got fired or resigned So that's one thing another thing is again defining the the Prospect of of being fired for cause Because some people would stretch that definition to say well what I did or you know, whatever I did Outside of the institution isn't cause in terms of what I got to do for as president of the institution So for cause as president may be I didn't keep enrolling up. I didn't raise money. I didn't manage Operations well. I ran a deficit. Those are things that you would say that was for cause on the job This is outside of the campus borders So can you say that there's a That there's a reason or a way that you fell down on the job now? There could be a morality clause a morality clause in this contract. Um, but again It it puts the school in a difficult situation and I think it really does hurt the school because if nothing else happens There's one of two things that are going to happen if they want to fire him They either going to have to buy him out Which is going to cause money that they probably don't have Or they're going to have to to take up the the idea That it's for cause and we don't want to buy you out and that may be a court issue That he knows too. He may be willing to fight because it is such a scandalous headline that it may be I'm gonna I'm better off trying to stick here with this job And get a settlement perhaps then trying to move on and get another presidency because that probably won't happen Um pending the you know the outcome of this investigation, but the other thing is I think Normally in situations like this you would say or at least this conspiracies and me would say, you know Part of this I wonder if they're out to get them I wonder if somebody can make a complaint stir stir up enough dirt and just say this is something that happened But there's a part of you know, and it's already out there whether it's true or not It's already out there, but there's a part of me that says I don't know if if fisk has the political juice in Nashville Where? Politico's and people in power care I don't think that you gonna play themselves. I don't think that they it mattered enough for them to say Let's go get somebody to make a claim against the president of fisk That if you look at the community, they're building all around that institution It's not like they're trying to make a land grab for it and get fisk up out of here It's not like they you know that What fisk does or what the students say, you know unlike a school like howard or a and t is going to move an election of some sorts You know, it's not it's not a political force. It may be a cultural one, but it's not a political one So you you have to imagine that there's nothing in place From that that structure that surrounds fisk that says protect fisk president at all costs or get rid of him You know, I mean there's another there's another angle to a power play that if we're we're being conspiracy theorists There's another angle which would say Who underneath him had an issue with him? That would have leaked something. Well, that's the other part because if you look at fisk twitter Immediately the students and alumni say good get him up out of here This was instant like it was almost like there was this groundswell And that was for a lot of reasons cutting some staff that were very popular That were very popular on campus a lot of people didn't like that a lot of the moves with you know Academic realignment and some hires a lot of people didn't like that that happens with every president You don't like who goes and who stays But they instantly applied the pressure to say this dude got a go And I wonder if the board looked at that and said It seems to your your point, uh, katie. They could have said, you know, it's not true. We're moving on Like what you know, you're all are gonna have a long way to hoe if you're gonna try to prove I was on grind there. I broke into somebody's apartment. I had a gay relationship That's a that's a lot to prove off of protective order they could have said He says it's not true. We're moving on in the story Instead 24 hours later, he's out of there at least on leave So it makes me wonder was that swell of support from the campus community enough to say That was the straw we were looking for And if so it hurts the school additionally because if that's true Now you're facing in the middle of a pandemic the process of a presidential search Right a new administration. So that's new vps. That's new deans. That's a whole slew of people that's going to be new in those positions And for what because he was on grinder You know what I mean? Like so I think I take the position that this is harmful to the institution for for things that may not have to do with the Act or the allegations themselves Yeah So there's no way this ends well for them because if they have an issue with him Then they played themselves. This is not the time or place to try to get somebody out of there If it's not true that he's going to sue He's going to win a bunch of money and they're going to look even worse and I'm I live very close to Texas Southern. I have friends who go there and even with How that situation is going the university is not operating as smoothly because they don't have a president Like things are not moving in the way in which they should with their campus opening plan All the different things going on the university is behind on because in my opinion, they don't they have Shaky leadership. So I see fisk in the same thing where no matter what happens the school takes a dip because of this Nothing good will come up from me in the in the interim Maybe a year from now to get a better president and everything smooths over but for the next six to 12 months they're in the water because This is terrible news terrible PR news and even if they don't like him Sometimes it's it's better to leave with the one you came with Then to you know try to move in the middle of the dance, but Who knows let me ask this you guys this question real quick. So this has happened twice at least in 2020 Um that we know of that it's public Do you think that this and or you brought this up? Do you think that this changes the conservatism? about sex on hbc use because I think Do you think that black college culture looking at this and looking at okay a second incident? Um, and that's in addition to all the ones that we we know aren't public, but we just know are out there Do you think that this forces the culture to say we got to buckle down and get right with the lord? Or just accept that some of us are freaks. Some of us are gay And some of us like honing around And it is what it is like next to the black church the black the black college culture is The second most conservative thing and not by not not by a far margin. They're very conservative because they're church Rudy So does it does do you think the culture has to say we got to make a change not just with this But with with everything going on No, I think it will but I don't think it'll be on the part of administration. And I think in general Post-covid a lot of things in higher ed will have to change just by default and so I mean HPC is not the only schools that are very much Deeply church rooted may we're started by the church You could also look at Institutions that have been started by different sects of the catholic church Where originally the church was running the school But then eventually they bought them out and now it's being administered by a president But they're still catholic affiliated look at liberty liberty. Jerry Falwell got caught with his pants So liberty you can't throw in there because the embed evangelical schools is a monster of a different issue Long time coming. I cannot wait for that expose. They've come out But I just think um just in general I mean even I mean people said for years that oh Jerry Falwell runs Lynchburg and he's never And look at that and we're not even over with 2020. So who knows what could happen by December Um, I think for HPC youths, they've been so rigid for so long that it would take a global pandemic To finally move the needle. How much that moves? I don't know. I do think um in response to George Floyd and constant political pressure social pressure Like all of those things are intertwined and I think You know, I don't we also still have the election Um, so all of those things. I mean who's to say what it's going to look like In march of next year or even two years out. And so we can say that oh, well, these administrations are still conservative I'm like people gonna retire I don't want to be ill on anyone's health, but some people might not see 2021 It's it's a new day. And so I think that You know the the old guard is changing by default And then it's being forced to change by all of these different things going on right now And honestly for the next five years I just think all of that plus The students who do represent some of those people where they may not be out yet They may be a reminder or their trends or they're engaging in sex work to pay for school because school is still expensive Um, and so it's kind of like too when when administrations make those decisions about Someone who's a president or an administrator and they're doing quote-unquote lascivious things in their personal life What they do in response Will still speak to a student that'll say, okay We're doing the same thing. Basically. I got to shut the hell up or they're going to kick me out too So, you know, I just think I'm sorry. I just had to get these out because I'm gonna forget it I'm old it wasn't that long ago that Alabama state said hey Gwendolyn boy, you can't have just anybody up in your house So that that wasn't that long ago and now you're having these things And and Tiffany you on the record last week saying we're not going to be able to stop the students from having the sex No, are we are we at a point where we got to say We have to be more comfortable with our presidents and leaders having the sex in the way they want to have the sex Because I think that you're starting to see these these things where it's like and I got a theory about this Let me get into this real quick Hold on. Hold on. I'm gonna ask you. I just want to set it up proper I think that this stuff is starting to happen because a lot of these leaders can't travel One no, I'm dead serious one of the things And the players in the NBA bubble Listen, I think I think that a lot of folks in higher ed when you spend so much of your time Buttoned up trying to say the right thing trying to do the right thing One of the worst kept secrets of higher ed black white is that they get loose at conferences I mean That's that's that's the worst kept secret that that that's just a no That's every industry, but people get loose people get loose and there and there's all kind of entanglements in our sector angle call no name So what I'm saying is because people can't people can't travel they're doing their dirt locally And so Tiffany, I throw it to you because of that or if whether you buy that theory or not Do we have to move in a direction where we got to be a little a little more flexible a little more tolerant of sexual identity sexual activity with our presidents Because we don't have a problem legislating it with students No, we don't um First for my point last week that was centered around containing Not limiting the sex and how often these kids need it That's my only point because I mean I just came back from the hotel where some of the kids are staying and Is the whole thing so I'm like That that was that point not about policing what they need out of life, but honestly We got to get free We have got to get free and freedom Includes having the sex how you need the sex with whom you need the sex safely safely Or as you said is every industry eric laughed at the conferences. So I'm interested in y'all too weighing in on this So I mean again, obviously I work in the hospitality industry who hosts all these conferences Um I think it's generally I mean this is why the number one convention Locations in the country are los vegas new orland's in miami. Do any of those cities say Buttoned up to you right, right so so I mean, I think that there's in general like there's a convention conference culture internationally is why people go to You know to to Bangkok and in singapore and stuff for conventions as well internationally because people like to get out of their environments and They fellowship. I'll use that word they fellowship with one another and They get deep research, you know started at these different events but I Do with it as well, but I think what makes things worse at least in my opinion is that there's a lot of Repression in general society right now because there's obviously there's no business travel. There's people are in the school And people can only hold up there facade for so long um, and eventually, you know Who you are outside the house comes comes inside I mean those people aren't the same So I think that you know every study shows that domestic violence is uh, all these different Statistics are up inside people's homes Because people don't have the freedom to do what they do But I think in terms of our schools and leadership I think that it's very difficult because our campuses usually are Transitional and transition generations. We people who are very old on campus people who are very young people who are in the middle Um, and we see being conservative as the way to kind of bridge those three or four Uh different generations But I think that the challenge is the challenge is not something I've heard about the other day is like With people being online or remote or not having interaction Maybe leaders will just be like we're good I can do what I want to do because I don't have to answer to You know the older woman who works who's been an admin for 40 years I can kind of say what I want to say because she ain't gonna be on zoom anyway Um, and I can't fire her so we'll just ignore her presence. So air you you you agree with the conference philosophy or the conference theory I'm not what I'm going to say is is that Some things are said about these conferences. We know are unequivocally true, right? um We can sit here and say that there are certain conferences that hit the dc every single year The majority of work done happens in the hotels not actually inside the actual convention halls, right? So but To kind of echo a lot of people's points like he's on my hbc week No, no, I'm not actually No, he's talking about cbc They are entangled it's a big diagram because like the hbc brain crush is right in the middle It's so enough is you know, you're not lying about that. No, um, I think I mean and I had this discussion with you know a good friend of mine. She's a director of conduct at hbcu and she says she's like We have so much of a blind spot Towards real life issues because we don't want to acknowledge certain things. I'll never forget. I was an r.a. and we had domestic violence within a within a residence hall room because a girl was able to move in with her girlfriend And three months that was taking place But that's a blind spot because we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh, that's right People are having relationships in in that having non heterosexual relationships and that's okay Right, but the domestic violence has to be addressed. We have to be have to be cognizant of that Over some time like we still sitting here talking about how schools don't serve alcohol at sporting functions We sit here and talk about the domestic violence issues across the campus and things of that nature and I'm just like I Know I know a lot of our leadership is scared because it's already hard enough being black But guess what being black is not a monolithic experience There's other things that are layered into our blackings that we have to address And we have to acknowledge as being real and if we don't we're going to continually have situations like this where We should be having more of a discussion about oh, did he actually Hurt this person. Did he actually commit a crime against this person? Meanwhile, the primary discussion is He was on grinder It's not the most important thing in this conversation So I think you know the respectability politics make we box we're boxing ourselves and not understand to a degree why that is But it starts with us at every single level there are people who are conservative that that are in school right now That are younger than us. There are people who are conservative who are the entry level higher ed student affairs workers All the way up to those people who are old farce that that need to retire and do it but won't because they want They want something to do so it's It's mostly layered. It's too much going on but at the end of the day I just want our presidents to like move different that's all I want because The fact that we can't get most of our schools past five years with a single president is bad Bad enough as it is low at mercy. Let me um, let's let's take a quick break right here We're going to get into our second conversation about The things that we've learned since some of our campuses have opened back In full or in hybrid mode And what the next couple of months will look like and then we're going to have a conversation about What's happening with the hbc us in pennsylvania? Um, this is a under reported story And I think we got to pay a little bit more attention to it. So that just have to dark. We'd write back Dodgers at the dark and we're back Continuing our conversation on the reopening effort in the the era of covet 19 So last week we had a conversation about what the pitfalls and opportunities may be with hbc who's trying to reopen um And obviously as as safely as they know how and in a weekend at some campuses And i'm gonna start with lull because her school is at the middle of it. Um there's just there's just a sense that And tiffany just said this before we jump back on there We come we come at home in about a month and a half because you're not going to stop these young people from at a minimum Standing on the quiet standing on the yard and just talking without masks on that's not even to mention the sex That's not even to mention the things that that may happen off campus You can't force them to live in a bubble you look at situations like southern university where they literally looks like It has a sheet up between two beds in a room um, you look at you look at places where uh They have curfews going they have Plans being done and there's no details like it at me and orzama modern morgan state every mandatory testing. Well, how? i mean What does that mean you get you get a mandatory test and it's and it's good You're good. You're negative today. You could be positive tomorrow Say the bully throw in bully say the bully say what i mean So i think it's morgan. What have we learned laura. I start with you one from the babies just saying Not that we're immune, but this is not top of mind anymore. Y'all didn't held us back too long It's our time now And what does that mean for the the institutional? Uh integrity and what does it mean for the culture? I mean I was not surprised because you know the frontal lobes of the brain Does not develop them so Third decade of life and most most people so you know and I think you know I on one hand I get everyone's been shut in they have cabin fever etc etc And then especially for freshmen. That's why a lot of initial Plans for bringing students back had you know, everyone else is going to be online The like freshmen will be on campus and whatever type of limited capacity for the schools that could do it So it's like I understand that rationale, but at the same time It's like people are 17 or 18. They're not I mean, we all know how much mono was spread on campus And COVID is not mono right. We don't know what COVID is yet. And so I think even even here in dc and just You know people having block parties and cookouts and house parties that have to get shut down and over 100 people It's not really. I mean, I think it's just with youth. You think you're gonna live forever when you're 18 You're not unless you have a Extremely tragic home life where everybody's dead Um, you're not you're not as attuned with your mortality when you're young Because you're like fine, you know, okay. I broke my leg it healed and like, you know a month I'm straight Or like, okay. I did get I got COVID but you know it only took me out for a week But I was I'm straight and so it's not it doesn't come it doesn't become real Until you're hooked up to machines or like I've heard of people that are like younger than me And they survived COVID, but they have to wear a colostomy bag and be on dialysis for the rest of their life And they're not even 30 yet But it's like, you know, again, same as with trump. I don't know what else has to happen For people to get it to take a second work that happened like 20 times over and people are still like whatever Whatever I don't care. So I think for schools. I mean I feel like it's a choice is either have, you know, whatever amount of students on campus Do what you can to enforce it Or do what other schools have done which people had to issue it but it's like You know have students sign a clause and say that, you know, I agree to be on campus and I will not sue the university And then if we want to take it a step further I don't think any hbcu would be psyching up to do this But be like boston university and say, oh, you can get your degree you will award degrees posthumously if you die But i'm like, that's where we're at now and so I feel like administrations need to really If it's a matter of saving saving money because no matter what they're going to do the students going to complain We know that so it's like, which complaint do you want to get? Do you want to get? Like at least 500 different lawsuits for wrongful death Or do you want to finagle some type of online hybrid? partition it I mean, I think I think also too like even in the midst of the pandemic We've had to find different ways of connecting with people And accept that okay, maybe I can't do it in person But that doesn't mean you know granted i've been on a million zooms But one more isn't going to kill me because I really want to connect with my um class My incoming class and as we've heard before, you know, look to your left Look to your right the person next to you might not graduate with you I mean, is that really different? So I just think that I mean, I think for the students it's still not real yet And so I feel like for administrations, you know, do what you can but also have a and I don't want to call it an Escape plan but having an escape plan like okay If we get if we get like 10 cases shut it down So everybody home Do online well that that's the question. Let me throw it to katie who's immersed in darkness right now um Do you If it would the 18 year old you take the position of I gotta I gotta make sure that i'm not giving anybody covet or i'm not catching it Or would you just say would do you think that you would be taking the risk and be like it ain't that bad? We're outside. It's not like we're in a building We're outdoors. Well, how do you think you would have approached that 18 years old? Wow 18 year old me didn't even want to go to college um So i'm different than these babies. I didn't I didn't I didn't look at it like that But at 18, um, if you told me there was something life-threatening that I needed to stay home I would have stayed home And I would have made all of my family stay home to the best of my ability I really I just because as I'm as educated I am mob nervous that I'm going to be in the classroom in november And let's let's say I know how to protect myself I don't want to see 10 students drop when we could easily just stay home until january And I think I just I think people really realize need to realize you might need need just six more months It's that's a tough ass But just six more months of being apart from each other so we can actually figure this out Because otherwise like she like laurel said, I mean I'm talking about 500 wrongful deaths. It might be 10 per campus between All of the hbc use that's going to close some schools Well, let me you make an excellent point and actually to piggyback off what laurel said So let me throw this to winston real quick and tiffany and eric to follow up on this since y'all work with students high school and college on campus at Let me start with winston at what point does a school that you may be targeting for some of your young people in detroit Is there a number where you say i'm cutting that off? I'm not sending anybody to that that school because even let's not even say the campus. Let's say just the city let's say if it's a hot spot like like um Like houston was at some point at some point Do you say i'm not and that's not to make fun of or because he went to morgan But it is to say Would you look at a school like texas southern and say i'm not sending kids from detroit down there because it appears that it's just too dangerous Well, texas is a good example because two students who were supposed to be going there are now doing Online courses from detroit. They're not going to houston any longer that we had going here this year There's a lot of apprehension around georgia. There's a lot of bridge with the morhouse film and clark students that we have Which you know the spellman morhouse piece got taken care of but Those i mean before i mean i would i would have the conversation. I wouldn't Leave it to this. Um, I try not to tell them, you know, like y'all don't go here You know, i wouldn't advise you to go here. I'll give you the information I'll allow you to analyze it. I'll talk to your parents Conversation about what it looks like i try to reframe from doing everything but saying don't go I just want to make sure we got all the facts on the table Like what we talking about, you know, and it's no different than other things that you know affect our institutions like accreditation and other things like to me It's the same type of thing even though this is obviously life threatening is life threatening But in general it's no different than appearing as concerns about accreditation with an institution and i'm like, okay Well, we can talk about pain or but don't cook it or whatever institution Insert institution in that in that vein, you know I want to make sure we don't act like it doesn't exist and we can have a full-fledged conversation. Let's let's talk it out My main the main thing for me was just to be make sure they're aware of it and more so than To a detriment deter. I'll let you make the decision. You know, I didn't I didn't tell those young people Don't go to use them but i'm we did talk about the conditions and what it Is or so they they had one of them had already dealt with that and then their parents were not comfortable with You know, obviously with them going to texas in the midst of of all this as well So, I mean it to me it's more about just being informed and having the conversation Yeah, typically you and y'all work with students on campus. So what are the conversations like with you guys leading up to trying to come back or Even now that that some people are back. What what kind of questions are you getting? What kind of advice are you providing? Um, what are you hearing from administration that you should say or that you should explore to be of help to the to the school in that way So first And these two things are connected at least in my mind. They are So for somebody like me who has parents who are um I don't even know my dad doesn't have an immune system, right? He is a double kidney transplant recipient is he's had kidney disease for Most of my life. So I've lived life with somebody who Is vulnerable Is vulnerable. So like we we have been raised to be very careful And so when all this started happening It's like, all right We already know like We already know how to do it, right? Right and we're To laurel's point. We're very aware of our mortality and our parents mortality because They have life-threatening conditions that they navigate every day And so with that in mind my brother, he lived with me For most of quarantine because it was safer for him to do so. It was we're in the country in kentucky. He had already spent Most of 2019 in kentucky sending him back home would have been very dangerous because in 48235 That had the worst um Amount or the the highest amount of infection rate. Yeah Infection rate in detroit and that is our zip code. And so my mother was like, you know, he's staying there It is what it is For me talking to these students In knowing where Our students come from we have a lot of kids from detroit, obviously From ohio from indy from georgia from florida There's one young man here who recruited like 20 people To come here. We have a lot of people from florida and so in my head I'm like kids hit me up on instagram on twitter and the dm's when do you know when we coming back with speed I'm like chill Especially if you're from a place where you have a governor that's not handling their business Coming anywhere because you're gonna bring Your germs from where you live Into small ass frankfurt like I'm like we've not lived through a pandemic In a hundred plus years This is new for everybody. I get it. Y'all want to be at home with your parents. It may not be the best situation But coming here This ain't gonna be the best situation either because we're gonna be just like y'all With fewer resources to deal with it in terms of hospitals and all that kind of stuff Eric is it the same when you're in? So I have the luxury of working with a bunch of petulant children who masquerade as adults looking for graduate degrees um No, and I mean this in a very serious way because as an institution that I worked at, you know, just I'm just gonna be quite frank We had a different plan for each individual institution that was there and because all of them were publicized We literally had I had one student in one of my programs Who's an online student who started a petition to force us to go back to in-class courses for this upcoming fall And he ain't never touched the campus a day in his life Just like just because he was just like well This other campus the well the law school campus is going to be back on Going to be back on campus. We should be back in the building too. I was like There's 21 graduate programs that I had operating inside this one building We operate upwards of at least 22 classes in a two-hour span Every single day 14 monday and thursday and you think this is the wisest idea I did in downtown dc mind you right, so I get When I do talk to students that are more in the underground space and I'm having conversations with them A lot of it is just pretty much informing them on just the reality of the situation And I talk a little about their mentality, but talk about little small things like Oh, well, if I'm at home, why am I not getting a tuition discount because your school can't afford it? Let's just start there Like and mostly it's also because if your school already had an online program the students in that online program were already paying Already paying full price exactly subtracting subtracting the fees, right? Let's have that discussion What well, why can't we go back to campus? Well, because we know right now you're at home and you won't stay at home So while we bring you here Right now Like I said, I will say that there are certain situations and exceptions That students should have been brought back to campus and in doing so They should be to still be taking online classes in their rooms If they live in a domestic violence situation If they would have been homeless if they were not in college, they should be back on campus There's things that we can do to make sure that these things take place But for the most part People just don't want to listen and it's not young people. It's not black people It's people like we just really at this point that people just don't want to say that bro Say that and And and it's something that you can do so like Maybe maybe our schools do need to take the perspective of Boston University and just be like, oh, yeah Well, you know what this is the clause if you decide to not adhere to the direct to the rules as such Then You know what we will we will award you to do is pop is posthumously Also, we will not refund your money that you pay for tuition so far As cold as it might be It's crazy because initially I was worried that you know with most things when hbc us do it Even if all colleges are doing it. We seem to get the bad rap It's almost like Look at these black students doing this So look at these black faculty with this black president doing this when everybody does it And I was worried initially that people would look at students standing on the yard and say these black colleges can't control These students can't control themselves. These campuses can't get under control But I think that they deserve a lot more credit In the sense that one a school like a and t is at the mercy of the north Carolina board of governors It ain't on a and t to say We're open. We're closed. It's going to be whatever the board of governor says as a public institution in a public system So they're doing the best they can the next thing is and I I hope this doesn't this doesn't offend anybody when I say it I'm glad that that that photo or that video and every other one that follows Does not involve police coming to break it up That there's some way that one administrator or somebody can walk out there and say y'all know y'all not supposed to be doing this But don't let it turn into a situation where students who've been who've been bottled up for six months And not necessarily looking for a confrontation but are frustrated with this thing And a police officer or some police officers come out there and say y'all got to go They cuss at the police officers the police officers get offended and then it's a thing on an hbcu campus So grand grand bling had to do a day that the president gallowed it alive today He had to do it live today at four o'clock because it was a large gathering Yesterday on campus him and the dean of students had to get on live this afternoon And one of the kids rebuttals to the president talking about hey We gave you guys these rules and guidelines. Hey, the police didn't get involved They didn't tell us we had to go home and he's like look like you guys We gave you the rules before you came here The hope is that the police don't have to get involved to tell you that and to his point He said I understand that you guys have been locked up How we we get it you guys have been in the house You're a lot of you freshmen the first time being away from home and all those things But if you guys can't hear this if we start getting cases all y'all going home And I don't want to have to stay at home, but I was sending all y'all home Or not just that but that the campus some of them The the effort to send people home and because we've seen a model like the MBA where you can construct a bubble I wouldn't be surprised if you have some institutions say, okay Y'all can't deal with it. You go to class. You go to your room if you're caught. Let me see how that's going though Let's see. Let's see. I don't so Lou Williams left the bubble to go to the strip club He went to a funeral, but I mean even even even The wings are delicious and then but even even bring it even bringing in sports, right? Like obviously everyone knows my brother played at a at a me at school one of the few me at schools left and He's in his last he's in his last semester And so obviously him not having a season this year. He plays football, you know, it's quite devastating for him um And he's talking about different things about but He's talking about a bubble and we see what other conferences are doing not to make this about sports, but I think that HBCUs are in a really weird space because you have schools like fam which moved in players You know prior to the season being canceled and tee moved in players my brother Morgan my brother school, which I won't name um Did not move in players now. He lives in norfolk full time. Damn. Well, there you go He could go to Hampton or Norfolk. It's all good Actually He lives he lives in that region of that state right full time So there was no moving period needed for them But but it's a really challenge because I think that when you even look at how they've done athletics with bubbles They really haven't worked as well as which you'd want them to and I think the bigger problem in many of our schools So I think it's cool like Alcorn could do a bubble a school like Prairie view could do a bubble But you can't do a bubble in a in an urban even a semi urban environment Yeah, even a semi urban you can't you can't do a bubble at tsu right either tsu I mean you can't do a bubble at any of the other type of schools Where there's so much urban interaction and even with the staff have so much urban interaction Um, but people take people taking buses and public transit to and from work and different things So I think that the safest thing to do I'm obviously i'm in graduate school and the university of houston system Um has decided to go all master's classes are online Um, I don't know what they're doing with undergrad because they're my my business, but I think that in general Coming back to campus is going to shoot a lot of your schools in the foot And I see people going home early And this may cause for more outbreaks That start on campuses and then spread back to where people live And then we're back at step one because people are booing like booing more than the plan about you have to get a test But I mean right now getting tested is not as simple and dependent on what state you're in Um, how do you prove this people can easily modify an email to say I got tested? I mean, it's just so And we don't have the capacity on campus either test. So I think in general, you know, we've set ourselves in the foot with this The system decided to set us up a failure. I mean, I think the nc system is one of the worst in the country and um, I think that you know those hbc use north carolina gonna have some serious challenges because Elizabeth city or fairville or even ant can't do with chapel hill can correct those two don't have the same resources So having one blanket plan for this for everybody right and our best interest either Let me let me shift gears real quick and I think we got to get this in at least at least two minutes apiece So if you haven't been paying attention, um Two of the our hbc use in pennsylvania lincoln university and cheney university Have had some serious headlines in the recent, uh, months Uh, cheney if you haven't been paying attention Just to backtrack regained its accreditation. It was under threat of losing it but it's slowly become a Business park for lack of a better term for a lot of startup businesses Looking to move to that that part of pennsylvania I think they have three or four companies three or four startups that are that are housed on the cheney campus um The the state is spinning it like this is a good thing and you know, this is This is cheney being forward thinking and this is this is going to create a lot of workforce development for the students I don't buy it cheney has always been on the state's target and you know I have a I have a philosophy that I I live and I work through Whoever the governor of any state that has hbc use whatever they say is good for you consider the opposite to be true And so we have now seen governor tom wolf in pennsylvania chime in on Yes, cheney will keep its accreditation Let's let's let's let's do infuse some cash and get some businesses to set up there Same thing with lincoln lincoln wants to fire a president the governor says no keep that president. She's great That's not to say that she isn't it's not I don't know the lady I don't the sister from all appearances has been doing a good job from what everybody says What I will say Is that whomever and for whatever a governor says Is good for an hbcu typically the opposite is true And so I find it interesting that Of all these years Where lincoln and cheney have been at the at the at the target a target of pennsylvania Now all of a sudden the governor is so Impressed by the schools that they want to talk about resources and talk about leadership In a in a more robust way than we've ever seen am I just making too much of it or is there something there? And we we literally got about six minutes All right, so listen. All right. So one this is they're in a tough situation, right? Because if they refuse it Or they refuse the direction of it then it can go right back to what status quo has always been Right. I mean it could make a little gunshot, right? And that's that's unfortunate Unfortunate thing now I do think that if they're talking about infusing some money infusing some businesses in the area things like that take advantage of it Start having some partnerships that can actually make sure that your school is like relevant to the community and and people are actually Supporting the thriving now that being said the only question I have and this is a general question But it's really pointed at lincoln based upon what we saw Who do we go to to save our hbcu's from their board of trustees or regions nobody? Because who do they hope like who are they held accountable to Who like at some point and this kind of goes back to what happened out in texas was mentioned earlier But at some point i'm just kind of like There's nobody who supersedes The the board of trustees in a real way to stop them from having power trips sometimes So we saw it in lincoln. I'm not gonna comment on uh, uh, dr. Uh, dr. Allen, right? But at the same time it's just like all right At any given time somebody can move their way around and it's like you out of there Like that's something about that comes about that doesn't make you doesn't make you feel right Part of that I think is that's just the nature of the industry like in business I mean if a board, you know, doesn't like a ceo they can say you got to go now typically that doesn't happen boards of you know Various fortune 100 companies don't move like that. They're a little more strategic than that But higher education is different because the board is comprised or at least is supposed to be by the will of the people So you're you're supposed to elect business leaders and and different civic leaders To represent the interests of the people in a public institution but I think all of us who attended public schools Laurel, me and orz. Katie all of us have have seen what an antagonistic state looks like attacking an hbcu But it appears to me that this is a more covert way to attack an hbcu. This isn't us saying we're gonna cut your funding This isn't us saying we're gonna, you know, we're gonna we're gonna fire your president fire the board This isn't them saying we're gonna cut your programs. This is them very covertly disguising quote-unquote progress But in a totally different way than you traditionally see in in in schools Lord, would you would you agree with that given your history looking at ant and looking at other other schools around the country? Do you think that Pennsylvania is something different I mean I mean personally, I just feel like they're taking advantage of the social climate the current social climate and saying oh because I feel like it's starting with pennsylvania, but I feel like other states who Are not run by an iacal governors. Um, we'll take advantage of this maybe even more covertly than pennsylvania is by Saying, oh, well, this looks good. Yeah, we're not racist Let's oh, there's hbcu's. Yeah, let's go some money their way Let's now support them and I think it's even worse Because just like whatever that proposal allegedly that biden had of letting all hbcu students Get free tuition and it's like you keep doing everything But what people are actually asking you for we're asking you to adequately fund us One that's at the same rate that you're supposed to fund all of your state institutions whether the hbcu's or not And then also adequately support them to the same level as you would pennstay or up I'm whatever at whatever capacity that is whether it's financially politically Whatever not. Oh, well, let's here partner with this business and that's different from say You know, arizona state, which is not hbcu, but because arizona Often trends last in terms of public tax support for education through k-12 through higher ed because their citizens trend older I don't want to say they're all mogats, but a lot of them are and they don't you know to them They don't need education. Why do why do I want to fund a public education? I'm 55 or older And so as a result Arizona state's president has to go outward such as making partnerships with starbucks and google and all these other Corporations to help fund the school and now they're big as hell and people And they say well, you know schools are not a you can't run it like a business. What are you doing? And it's like well, if you look at what he's dealing with At the public state funding, he doesn't have a choice or you can raise tuition for all the students And they're like one of the largest schools in the country. I've been there. It's psycho So at least comparative to that it's kind of like, okay. Well, the governor is getting involved in it So I feel like at this stage it does not look openly shady. I'm not going to say it's not Um, but also because pennsylvania is a commonwealth It's a little bit different than other states and they can kind of I don't want to say they can do whatever they want, but You know them massachusetts virginia, they have a little bit different way of doing things now granted virginia with um north um I think he's taking the social climate and plus the blackface incident. He got embarrassed. So now he's just trying to pass everything I didn't wait this in So I think at this stage it's too early to release hell um Could it backfire six months from now possibly Um, but that's also to say that if nothing else happens I think the presidential election will supersede anything that they do. Um, but I'd say for right now It doesn't really look shady. It does look beneficial But I think time will tell because who's to say that the businesses um, they're partnering with won't go belly up We economy we're gonna have to we're gonna have to cut it right there, but uh, stay tuned We're gonna have uh, that just after dark on i g tv. We're gonna discuss uh, senator comma comma Harris and her historic vp nomination So, uh, I want to thank everybody for listening tonight. This has been digest after dark one series 142 hbcu radio At howard university. Uh, check us out hbcu digest.substack.com. We'll see you the next time. Peace